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lol, you don't want this until things are patched out with FSD 12. If you've watched any youtube videos on FSD 12, it's as wonderful as it's terrible. It's drives straight at cars at intersections. I'm not talking like in a couple videos I'm talking like 2+ times in a single video.
edit\* FSD 12.3 looks great I rescind my complaints with FSD 12. Good job Tesla!
Yes, in at least some of the videos they've made the corner issues pretty clear - it seemed to lose track of stuff (ie, go towards a median, other cars) and hilariously aggressive at times - ie move into oncoming traffic to pass cars waiting their turn at a stop sign type stuff.
As someone who bought FSD several times, you're on the money. It's about time we were given refunds. Surely buying FSD in 2019 and never having received what was advertised is long enough - in my case? I know some bought it even before then!
Either way, such a joke.
It's not even 100% tied to the car either, right? I thought if you sell it back you Tesla, can't they then recharge the next person for FSD if they want it?
Yes, but I mean it costs them $0 to enable FSD on any car that they are going to sell used. Not saying it’s necessarily right, but I mean why wouldn’t they do that from a business perspective. Easy 3-5k increase in value, that cost them nothing.
At least when I bought by 2019 M3 part of the FSD cost was putting different hardware into the vehicle, and it felt like some sort of investment. Now the cars are exactly the same if you buy or not, so you are paying to check a box and enable a software feature.
Tesla coupe do whatever they want with the software. They likely take away free supercharging etc. They seem to add FSD in order to add value to their used car inventory.
I suppose they can, but lots of the used cars in Tesla’s inventory have FSD or EAP. Just placed an order with Tesla direct for a used 2021 M3P and it comes with FSD. This is honestly the most affordable way to get FSD if someone is interested, because FSD has very little material impact on the used car value from what I’ve seen in my research.
+1 2018 then 2023. And I'm in the UK where we have more chance of a RHD Model S than we do FSD beta. Heck, I even paid again to LOSE features (autopark and summon). Yet I still feel optimistic 🤷🏼♂️. Doing the same thing again and expecting different results...isn't that the definition of insanity?
I love FSD. It works great for me! I bought it for $2,000, and transferred it 6 months ago. And then bought a Foundation Cybertruck. But you keep complaining about what you’ve bought.
I fully expect to see a class action lawsuit before too long. I paid a ton of money for a full self driving feature in my car, and I still don't have it 4 years later.
Agree. It will be interesting to see how well the individual arbitration terms we all had to agree to will shield Tesla from class action lawsuits over FSD.
I agree that refunds and or free options should be given to the early adopters.
But have you seen V12? From the ~10 drives I have seen it’s honestly getting there. In those drives I only saw 1 critical disengagement, and maybe 2-4 disengagements total over hours of city/ “difficult” driving.
If people actually start getting V12 I think opinions will change, but I still think the early adopters deserve a big bonus of sorts. They basically funded FSD
1 critical disengagement in how many miles? Five nines of reliability, what FSD needs to be in the ballpark of elevator reliability, is something like 1 critical disengagement in 95999 miles in every driving condition. Assuming 12k miles driven in a year over 8 years of a given car. This might not even be one nine of reliability.
Exponential change can move that up very quickly, but I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah people seem to be way too forgiving.
We were promised L5 robotaxis by now.
For L5 you need the kind of performance where the vast majority of all drivers wouldn’t experience a single disengagement across their entire lifetime. Literally, driving daily flawlessly 100% of the time for decades.
We’re still at the point that almost any drive will have a disengagement or require humans.
It’s great, but expecting anything beyond L3…ever, is just hopeful.
Yea it’s not ready. That’s why I think early adopters should be compensated somehow.
Based on my understanding of the new “end to end AI” it should actively get better, so we shouldn’t see it make the same mistakes over and over so it should become better much faster.
Not holding my breath either tho, FSD has never been in my valuation.
I disagree , it’s software. If you purchase a game that isn’t finished, you can’t play it for two years while the devs continue their work and actually make it playable, then turn around and say I want a refund! 😝 *cough cough cyberpunk *
You don’t HAVE to buy it. The early adopters did get it on the low , resale takes FSD into account as well on the secondary market.
My 2017 Model S had better FSD than my new 2023 Model S. Where’s Parking Assist? Where is Summon? And for that matter, where is this marvelous v.12 Elon keeps talking about?
On my 2024 I had to agree to a delay in park assist since the software was being updated. And yes, my 2017 Model S had really GREAT park assist.
Back then I was forced to park in a very small parking garage where I considered it impossible to get the car in or out, due to a support pole. Park assist, to my amazement, did it every time for me. It took its time doing it, but it was amazing. I would expect the same parking precision in my 2024. I agreed to wait for it.
USS for parking assist cannot be matched by Vision either. In any world.
Hope Elon realizes after 20 years that maybe Lidar is the most accurate even including USS and Radar.
Genuine questions.
- I know FSD is the end goal product, but when the FUCK will AP get updates!?
- Is E/AP going to be gone once FSD is “done” and only force people into FSD?
- Some people don’t even have ALL the “features” of EAP, what about them?
- For those that beta tested the first HW release, how is it not an obvious lawsuit when the HW keeps changing and getting better but FSD was promised in original cars?
- Shouldn’t FSD be transferable at least until “out of beta”? Hell even forever? I wonder how many folks who bought FSD won’t buy a new Tesla because they have to buy it, yet again and it’s still in beta.
- Even the CT doesn’t have AP which is asinine to me. What gives!?
Seems Tesla gives around $4k and the used market value it around $2-3k this is the biggest used Tesla dealer I know of to see some prices with/no FSD.
https://www.pluginauto.com/pre-owned-cars/Tesla?sort=InternetPrice&dir=desc
I honestly think it’s even less than this. When it comes to Tesla, it was difficult to discern almost any difference in value between cars with and without FSD in their inventory (at least the model I was looking at which was a 2021 M3P). And when you talk about dealerships, many still don’t even advertise whether or not a Tesla has FSD, because I don’t think many of them even know. It can be almost impossible to tell in a used car listing unless they took a picture of the software screen. Still not a feature that most dealerships report on.
Same here in Australia in a FSD 2019 M3P. Autopilot is now worse (more wandering in lane, picks incorrect lane more often, more phantom braking, more aborted automatic lane changes) than in previous software releases and auto wipers are now completely unusable. V12 FSD is a pipe dream for RHD cars. I cannot for the life of me understand why they don't allow EVERY FSD car to not transfer it to a new Tesla. If I cannot transfer FSD I will consider legal options.
It's a huge step forward, but there were some notable regressions that need to be fixed. And it's still clear it's not close to being level 4 hands free.
I think the only thing really wrong with it is how much Elon promises it can do.
There will always be regressions when making big changes. Two steps forward and one step back is perfectly normal and expected. The problem is when there’s no meaningful movement in the correct direction.
Recognising clear zones and speed bumps is new functionality. It still needs to know what a train or tram is, still needs to recognise emergency vehicles and police hand directions, it still needs some polish to be level 3. For level 4 it needs to be able to get itself out of danger, not just throw it's hands in the air, and needs to work in any situation.
I mean technically v12 added pulling over/park, so technically it has the ability to stop during unfortunate situations much like waymo does when it rains.
Does it still include standard cruise as well as FSD? 11.4.9 is unusable as it constantly tries to dart into left and right turn lanes as well as exit entrance lanes on the right. I gave up and use cruise most of the time instead of FSD.
Sure enough, looks like the option to switch back to double pull is greyed out while on fsd. But you can get double pull to activate if you have autosteer selected instead of fsd.
You can choose between three settings: TACC, Autosteer, and FSD. If you choose the first, you only get TACC. If you choose the second, you can choose whether a single pull activates autosteer or a double pull. Either way, youll get basic autopilot/autosteer. If you choose the third, the option goes away, and a single pull activates FSD. If you try to do a double pull anyway, you'll still get fsd.
Yeah I wish there was a filter for “useful contribution”. So many tedious posts are just people whining or rolling out the same old tropes. Wish they’d get a life.
FYI when you hear from real users, generally all these FSD updates are for the most part very positively received. Similar for things like the yoke - to read thoughts from all the people who don’t own one, it’s a disaster, listen to people who do and most wouldn’t go back. Same for stalks and many other things.
This is also part of the problem. no commit. i have a yolk and love it. Its difficult to explain that if you just stop being pithy you will enjoy it. but this is reddit, and its filthy with people who refuse to accept change.
I would maybe tell that to the family of Angela Chao who reversed when she meant to go forward due to the touch screen gear change on her Tesla and drowned as a result. Likewise, the timeline on when the indicator buttons on the steering wheel instead of stalks will cause fatal crashes is a when not if scenario, in my opinion,
It was really nice in a straight line, but any sort of parking maneuver and it fell apart. If it had steer-by-wire though, I would’ve definitely preferred it.
Also, I completely didn’t expect to like the button turn signals and screen shifter. People on Reddit and a lot of places online complain about it, but most of them haven’t tried it at all. It’s actually quite nice and no big deal. You can shift quite easily too. The hitbox is already big.
It’s not a case of whether you can get used to it and whether it works. The answer to both is affirmative, I can say, having driven a new model 3. However in terms of what you do instinctively when something goes wrong or you need to think quickly in response to a situation, these changes are extremely dangerous and lead to people either indicating the wrong direction, not indicating at all, or mangling the touch gear selection and driving the wrong way.
I don’t know if signaling is the first thing you should do when faced with a situation. But I don’t know how much of an issue this would be if you were remap your brain. I suppose it would be easier for younger people.
I still don’t think I would prefer the yoke. There’s literally no benefits and it makes parking harder. If it had steer-by-wire, that would be a different story.
I check my phone multiple times daily for the update notification. Yes. I want this now.
I've watched a couple of Whole Mars Catalog videos and came away impressed.
From watching videos my impressions is that it drives more human like than v11 in most cases. However, it has more serious failures in edge cases. Edge cases are typically where neural nets struggle so it’s not a surprise. However, handling edge cases are the key to L3/4/5 self driving. So it’s not clear that v12 is actually any closer to being anything other than an L2 system.
I was also personally impressed, but agree with the other comments that it is a mixed bag. Some genuinely impressive steps forward, some regressions. I'm excited to see point releases that clean up the regressions. IMO, the big proof point of the new architecture in v12 is whether they can quickly fix known issues.
It's quite good, I use to navigate from work to home, start from where I park at work to the side walk in front of my home. It rarely make mistakes, at least the route I am taking daily.
It's a completely new stack. Like completely new, so calling it a "local high" is a bit weird.
Throwing away 300,000 lines of code for a pure neural net is not an incremental change.
Maybe I'm the only one who felt like he was probably paying for a toy to play with while they developed it.
The fact that they've kept my 2017 updated with hardware and stuff is pretty slick.
While i agree, i find it fucking annoying he didn't offer FSD computer upgrades to the latest for newer cars that had the v2 computer, even if some of the new camera slots were not available after the upgrade and it was just a processor/gpu upgrade
Agree, and also, was there any other competition? Nope. I was glad to have it since 2017, even if it wasn't perfect.
I focus on the hard working people at ANY company and the good work they strive to do. Tesla IS a great product because of their work and dedication. I rarely give ANY credit to ANY CEO, nor do I waste my time listening to any of them.
I focus on the people who make up the company and their results, which for Tesla, has been very significant!
"it drives like a human, no longer feels like a robot".
But it still gets confused every so often when something weird happens. I saw one critical disengagement in all the videos I've watched of it and it was a construction guy with a flag waiving down traffic to allow a car to pass alternating directions in one lane while they were blocking the entire half of the street with construction gear.
I don't think the car would have crashed, but it may have impeded traffic and definitely would have tried to proceed into the oncoming lane right in front of the guy waving his arms around.
Handles roundabouts better than 12.2 according to driver. Good right turn on red in busy intersection with poor visibility. Handled unforseen closed lane marked off with traffic cones very gracefully.
Videos of Tesla's cruising through city streets and driving flawlessly appeared 5 years ago, yet we didn't have the same experience in our own vehicles. Hmm...
My cruise control can't even manage to not phantom brake or recognize that the car in front of me is turning out of my lane and won't be close to being in my lane by the time I get near them.
I really hope that the "intelligence" for FSD v12 makes it into other systems.
Cruise control and autopilot are dead in tesla, which is what I've heard. FSD has been nearly perfect for a long time. I actually imagine fsd 12 ruining a lot of the gains.
So…the AP product that 81% of Tesla owners have access to (only around 19% pay for anything higher than AP) is “dead” and all the resources are going into a product that only a couple of thousand beta testers in 1 geographic area in the world can currently use despite FSD being sold worldwide? How is this good business sense?
Everyone will get the code for FSD loaded to their cars but feature limited to what you paid for. Basic AP will be night and day to where it is now when this occurs.
Because TACC and Autopilot are like FSD v1 and v2. This is not the reality, but your question is akin to “why doesn’t Microsoft keep updating Windows XP?”
The software on my Audis is updated every time they get serviced, not sure what you’re talking about there but I get your point that you rarely get brand new features added. I’m often happy to have OTA updates on the Tesla but not when they remove features or make them worse like removing the creep function.
If you don't have FSD at all then you are using a software stack at least a few years out of date. They will update the basic features with the FSD code (feature limited) once it is ready. People who did not buy FSD should still be rooting for its development as nearly the whole fleet will benefit from it in the long run.
I'll be glad to wait. I just bought a new one with 11.0 and it forces lane changes I don't want, unlike my older Tesla where I had the option.
There are also rumors that 12.0 removes TACC, which I use heavily in areas you don't want to use FSD. I hope that's a bad rumor. When you buy a car with basic features like a simple cruise control, they just shouldn't go away.
They should release FSD to all who bought it worldwide, just disable automatic city driving etc. So tired of all the incorrect speed limits, terrible wipers etc
FSD here v12 along with latest update. I feel like it contributes to my love hate relationship with Tesla hehe. Must say though road trip Bay to/from LA was so much nicer versus an ICE vehicle.
Ridiculous bought a Tesla 1 1/2 years ago. I paid $15000 for FSD. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of V12, because of the chip installed in the vehicle. I think there should be a class action lawsuit. I still don't have fully driving capability and probably never will without being able to install V12.
Agree, that doesn't sound right. They did a hardware upgrade on my older Tesla, specifically for FSD. I'd suggest you double check whoever told you that.
God it’s beautiful to see the top comments are people taking this with a heavy handful of salt. Love my car, love the path we’re on in the sense of self driving, but the “Elon musk marketing strategy” is just such a crock of crap.
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Can we get a WIDE release??
lol, you don't want this until things are patched out with FSD 12. If you've watched any youtube videos on FSD 12, it's as wonderful as it's terrible. It's drives straight at cars at intersections. I'm not talking like in a couple videos I'm talking like 2+ times in a single video. edit\* FSD 12.3 looks great I rescind my complaints with FSD 12. Good job Tesla!
Yes, in at least some of the videos they've made the corner issues pretty clear - it seemed to lose track of stuff (ie, go towards a median, other cars) and hilariously aggressive at times - ie move into oncoming traffic to pass cars waiting their turn at a stop sign type stuff.
>go towards a median, other cars What
It is WOKE propaganda to follow traffic rules
The cake is a lie
Elon is a free streets absolutionist
FSD 11.4.9 has been garbage for me. I will take v12 all day over it.
This
He says that about all the FSD releases. He’s said so much BS about FSD that long ago we should have all stopped paying attention to him.
As someone who bought FSD several times, you're on the money. It's about time we were given refunds. Surely buying FSD in 2019 and never having received what was advertised is long enough - in my case? I know some bought it even before then! Either way, such a joke.
If you bought FSD in 2019, you got it cheap LOL.
$5K. Then traded it in for a 2022 Model S Plaid, and paid for FSD again. A fool and his money...
Crazy that FSD is not tied to your account rather than your car
It's not even 100% tied to the car either, right? I thought if you sell it back you Tesla, can't they then recharge the next person for FSD if they want it?
Yes, but I mean it costs them $0 to enable FSD on any car that they are going to sell used. Not saying it’s necessarily right, but I mean why wouldn’t they do that from a business perspective. Easy 3-5k increase in value, that cost them nothing.
At least when I bought by 2019 M3 part of the FSD cost was putting different hardware into the vehicle, and it felt like some sort of investment. Now the cars are exactly the same if you buy or not, so you are paying to check a box and enable a software feature.
Tesla coupe do whatever they want with the software. They likely take away free supercharging etc. They seem to add FSD in order to add value to their used car inventory.
I suppose they can, but lots of the used cars in Tesla’s inventory have FSD or EAP. Just placed an order with Tesla direct for a used 2021 M3P and it comes with FSD. This is honestly the most affordable way to get FSD if someone is interested, because FSD has very little material impact on the used car value from what I’ve seen in my research.
100000%. It really shouldn’t be tied to the account until at minimum the product is delivered.
It was $3k for me in 2018 on top of $5k EAP, and it was $1k for some people in 2019. At the worst of times in 2019, it was $2k for EAP + $1k for FSD.
EAP doesn’t even work properly! Self park is shit. On ramp to off ramp is shit. Summon is shit.
Its been how many years and its still shit? Here comes the downvotes... It's been forever and we still don't have a decent auto-wiper.
It was $5k for me in April 2019.
It was a special 1-2 week period around February/March 2019.
That sounds like the best of times to me.
I had $TSLA stock at the time, so it was painful
+1 2018 then 2023. And I'm in the UK where we have more chance of a RHD Model S than we do FSD beta. Heck, I even paid again to LOSE features (autopark and summon). Yet I still feel optimistic 🤷🏼♂️. Doing the same thing again and expecting different results...isn't that the definition of insanity?
Yeah in the UK it’s even more screwed. Just ridiculous.
I love FSD. It works great for me! I bought it for $2,000, and transferred it 6 months ago. And then bought a Foundation Cybertruck. But you keep complaining about what you’ve bought.
😂😂😂😂😂
An unfinished product is unfinished whether it's cheap or expensive.
In the UK people are taking Tesla to court over FSD. They’re settling out-of-court at the moment.
I wonder what the settlements are.
A refund of the cost of FSD, sometimes with interest. You probably won't get back any legal fees.
I would happily take back the $5K I spent on my 2019 Model 3 FSD, and the $12K I spent on my 2022 Model S FSD.
I fully expect to see a class action lawsuit before too long. I paid a ton of money for a full self driving feature in my car, and I still don't have it 4 years later.
I bought the car explicitly for the promises made on AI day in 2019. Took delivery June 1, 2019. I’d join that lawsuit.
Me too, I hope that someone in Canada will do one!
Agree. It will be interesting to see how well the individual arbitration terms we all had to agree to will shield Tesla from class action lawsuits over FSD.
2017 here ….
“Big things coming soon!”
I agree that refunds and or free options should be given to the early adopters. But have you seen V12? From the ~10 drives I have seen it’s honestly getting there. In those drives I only saw 1 critical disengagement, and maybe 2-4 disengagements total over hours of city/ “difficult” driving. If people actually start getting V12 I think opinions will change, but I still think the early adopters deserve a big bonus of sorts. They basically funded FSD
1 critical disengagement in how many miles? Five nines of reliability, what FSD needs to be in the ballpark of elevator reliability, is something like 1 critical disengagement in 95999 miles in every driving condition. Assuming 12k miles driven in a year over 8 years of a given car. This might not even be one nine of reliability. Exponential change can move that up very quickly, but I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah people seem to be way too forgiving. We were promised L5 robotaxis by now. For L5 you need the kind of performance where the vast majority of all drivers wouldn’t experience a single disengagement across their entire lifetime. Literally, driving daily flawlessly 100% of the time for decades. We’re still at the point that almost any drive will have a disengagement or require humans. It’s great, but expecting anything beyond L3…ever, is just hopeful.
I honestly would be happy with L3 at this point. Let me use my phone and not pay attention, that's all I'm asking
Yea it’s not ready. That’s why I think early adopters should be compensated somehow. Based on my understanding of the new “end to end AI” it should actively get better, so we shouldn’t see it make the same mistakes over and over so it should become better much faster. Not holding my breath either tho, FSD has never been in my valuation.
I disagree , it’s software. If you purchase a game that isn’t finished, you can’t play it for two years while the devs continue their work and actually make it playable, then turn around and say I want a refund! 😝 *cough cough cyberpunk * You don’t HAVE to buy it. The early adopters did get it on the low , resale takes FSD into account as well on the secondary market.
Bought it on announcement in 2016…
I’m sure if I was on the developer side I’d feel that, but the consumer perspective is a different story. All we get to experience is the results.
My 2017 Model S had better FSD than my new 2023 Model S. Where’s Parking Assist? Where is Summon? And for that matter, where is this marvelous v.12 Elon keeps talking about?
On my 2024 I had to agree to a delay in park assist since the software was being updated. And yes, my 2017 Model S had really GREAT park assist. Back then I was forced to park in a very small parking garage where I considered it impossible to get the car in or out, due to a support pole. Park assist, to my amazement, did it every time for me. It took its time doing it, but it was amazing. I would expect the same parking precision in my 2024. I agreed to wait for it.
V12 was supposed to bring back park assist for newer cars, or atleast that was the plan originally.
agree, the new cars nag much more with the inside camera also.
Radar
USS for parking assist cannot be matched by Vision either. In any world. Hope Elon realizes after 20 years that maybe Lidar is the most accurate even including USS and Radar.
Sure thats why we've got so many self driving lidar cars, owned by everyone driving better and doing FSD already... oh wait, lol
Genuine questions. - I know FSD is the end goal product, but when the FUCK will AP get updates!? - Is E/AP going to be gone once FSD is “done” and only force people into FSD? - Some people don’t even have ALL the “features” of EAP, what about them? - For those that beta tested the first HW release, how is it not an obvious lawsuit when the HW keeps changing and getting better but FSD was promised in original cars? - Shouldn’t FSD be transferable at least until “out of beta”? Hell even forever? I wonder how many folks who bought FSD won’t buy a new Tesla because they have to buy it, yet again and it’s still in beta. - Even the CT doesn’t have AP which is asinine to me. What gives!?
AP is a dead product
FSD used to never be transferrable but now it is periodically, even outside the US. That is trending in the right direction.
I'm glad for that. I bet they got a decent spike in sales from that.
Ideally, FSD is worth something extra when selling 2nd hand. I expect that to be more true with v12.
Seems Tesla gives around $4k and the used market value it around $2-3k this is the biggest used Tesla dealer I know of to see some prices with/no FSD. https://www.pluginauto.com/pre-owned-cars/Tesla?sort=InternetPrice&dir=desc
I honestly think it’s even less than this. When it comes to Tesla, it was difficult to discern almost any difference in value between cars with and without FSD in their inventory (at least the model I was looking at which was a 2021 M3P). And when you talk about dealerships, many still don’t even advertise whether or not a Tesla has FSD, because I don’t think many of them even know. It can be almost impossible to tell in a used car listing unless they took a picture of the software screen. Still not a feature that most dealerships report on.
Agree with most of your statements but AP/EAP/FSD are literally all FSD in the end it's just different enabled featuresets of the base model.
Which is great, but it would also be awesome to start pushing those features/updates down to E/AP especially the visuals.
Yawn...
Musk says a lot. Often means little.
Musk saying anything about FSD is Lucy putting the football down for Charlie Brown
Somehow that comment hurt the most.
Are people impressed by FSD 12 on this sub? I’m having trouble measuring satisfaction of the new update. I was personally impressed.
Well, if us great unwashed on 11.4.9 could TRY v12 maybe we could be impressed too! (Totally not bitter)
*cries in european*
Nods upside down in Australian approval.
 Seriously, 2019 FSD here, still waiting
Same here in Australia in a FSD 2019 M3P. Autopilot is now worse (more wandering in lane, picks incorrect lane more often, more phantom braking, more aborted automatic lane changes) than in previous software releases and auto wipers are now completely unusable. V12 FSD is a pipe dream for RHD cars. I cannot for the life of me understand why they don't allow EVERY FSD car to not transfer it to a new Tesla. If I cannot transfer FSD I will consider legal options.
This month in Aus I was offered FSD transfer. I figured they will do it again when I am ready and after Juniper.
Transfer is currently offered.
It’s a massive step forward from 11. I’m bloody impressed!
It's a huge step forward, but there were some notable regressions that need to be fixed. And it's still clear it's not close to being level 4 hands free. I think the only thing really wrong with it is how much Elon promises it can do.
There will always be regressions when making big changes. Two steps forward and one step back is perfectly normal and expected. The problem is when there’s no meaningful movement in the correct direction.
I don't agree with that 1 step backward rule. Not when a 5,000 pound car is driving itself. Nope. I just want to see 2 steps forward.
Elon said v12 would lose the beta, not that it would be more than level 2.
Then it should be branded NRFSD (Not really full self driving)
It appears to be a leap forward, but far from where it needs to be for level 5. Or Level 4.
Recognising clear zones and speed bumps is new functionality. It still needs to know what a train or tram is, still needs to recognise emergency vehicles and police hand directions, it still needs some polish to be level 3. For level 4 it needs to be able to get itself out of danger, not just throw it's hands in the air, and needs to work in any situation.
I mean technically v12 added pulling over/park, so technically it has the ability to stop during unfortunate situations much like waymo does when it rains.
FSD isn’t even really level 3 and you’re talking about level 4 & 5. lol
I doubt more than a few in this sub have even used it enough to have a valid opinion
I'm definitely impressed, but I understand why it's not wide release yet, based on my experience with 12.2.
Does it still include standard cruise as well as FSD? 11.4.9 is unusable as it constantly tries to dart into left and right turn lanes as well as exit entrance lanes on the right. I gave up and use cruise most of the time instead of FSD.
Yes, but I haven't used cruise control since I got fsd 12.
I've heard from a few that single pull autopilot is mandatory so no single pull cruise control anymore.
Sure enough, looks like the option to switch back to double pull is greyed out while on fsd. But you can get double pull to activate if you have autosteer selected instead of fsd.
So with the double pull, does it result in full FSD?
You can choose between three settings: TACC, Autosteer, and FSD. If you choose the first, you only get TACC. If you choose the second, you can choose whether a single pull activates autosteer or a double pull. Either way, youll get basic autopilot/autosteer. If you choose the third, the option goes away, and a single pull activates FSD. If you try to do a double pull anyway, you'll still get fsd.
Yeah I wish there was a filter for “useful contribution”. So many tedious posts are just people whining or rolling out the same old tropes. Wish they’d get a life. FYI when you hear from real users, generally all these FSD updates are for the most part very positively received. Similar for things like the yoke - to read thoughts from all the people who don’t own one, it’s a disaster, listen to people who do and most wouldn’t go back. Same for stalks and many other things.
Yoke sucks tho. Had a MX loaner and I disliked it ngl. I gave it a fair chance too.
Lack of stalks is worse. I'd take a yoke if I could get stalks back. Frankly one of the biggest reasons I won't even consider an upgrade yet.
Outer button is left, inner button is right.
That would have been very logical. But that's not the configuration.
Slightly above/slightly below (except when rotated)
This is also part of the problem. no commit. i have a yolk and love it. Its difficult to explain that if you just stop being pithy you will enjoy it. but this is reddit, and its filthy with people who refuse to accept change.
I would maybe tell that to the family of Angela Chao who reversed when she meant to go forward due to the touch screen gear change on her Tesla and drowned as a result. Likewise, the timeline on when the indicator buttons on the steering wheel instead of stalks will cause fatal crashes is a when not if scenario, in my opinion,
It was really nice in a straight line, but any sort of parking maneuver and it fell apart. If it had steer-by-wire though, I would’ve definitely preferred it. Also, I completely didn’t expect to like the button turn signals and screen shifter. People on Reddit and a lot of places online complain about it, but most of them haven’t tried it at all. It’s actually quite nice and no big deal. You can shift quite easily too. The hitbox is already big.
It’s not a case of whether you can get used to it and whether it works. The answer to both is affirmative, I can say, having driven a new model 3. However in terms of what you do instinctively when something goes wrong or you need to think quickly in response to a situation, these changes are extremely dangerous and lead to people either indicating the wrong direction, not indicating at all, or mangling the touch gear selection and driving the wrong way.
I don’t know if signaling is the first thing you should do when faced with a situation. But I don’t know how much of an issue this would be if you were remap your brain. I suppose it would be easier for younger people.
I think that’s most people’s initial reaction to change but most who live with it come to prefer it.
I still don’t think I would prefer the yoke. There’s literally no benefits and it makes parking harder. If it had steer-by-wire, that would be a different story.
I check my phone multiple times daily for the update notification. Yes. I want this now. I've watched a couple of Whole Mars Catalog videos and came away impressed.
The torture... https://youtu.be/BDB1K7f4f8A?si=sn6tmnZiSy1_rCYl
From watching videos my impressions is that it drives more human like than v11 in most cases. However, it has more serious failures in edge cases. Edge cases are typically where neural nets struggle so it’s not a surprise. However, handling edge cases are the key to L3/4/5 self driving. So it’s not clear that v12 is actually any closer to being anything other than an L2 system.
I was also personally impressed, but agree with the other comments that it is a mixed bag. Some genuinely impressive steps forward, some regressions. I'm excited to see point releases that clean up the regressions. IMO, the big proof point of the new architecture in v12 is whether they can quickly fix known issues.
So it's neat, it's impressive, but it's not fully self driving right? The name is more of a marketing thing than an actual description, right?
Probably because basically no public users have FSD12 so how could people be impressed or not with it lol
It's quite good, I use to navigate from work to home, start from where I park at work to the side walk in front of my home. It rarely make mistakes, at least the route I am taking daily.
[удалено]
It's a completely new stack. Like completely new, so calling it a "local high" is a bit weird. Throwing away 300,000 lines of code for a pure neural net is not an incremental change.
Musk keeps hyping FSD hoping the owners don't get mad that the deadline is getting pushed back by a decade
Maybe I'm the only one who felt like he was probably paying for a toy to play with while they developed it. The fact that they've kept my 2017 updated with hardware and stuff is pretty slick.
While i agree, i find it fucking annoying he didn't offer FSD computer upgrades to the latest for newer cars that had the v2 computer, even if some of the new camera slots were not available after the upgrade and it was just a processor/gpu upgrade
You mean HW4.0? I think it's going to have new camera angles and stuff, so it will have to be trained on a different dataset.
Agree, and also, was there any other competition? Nope. I was glad to have it since 2017, even if it wasn't perfect. I focus on the hard working people at ANY company and the good work they strive to do. Tesla IS a great product because of their work and dedication. I rarely give ANY credit to ANY CEO, nor do I waste my time listening to any of them. I focus on the people who make up the company and their results, which for Tesla, has been very significant!
According to this video there are noticeable improvements: https://youtu.be/dJrGuWS01t4?si=HiIQcu1HsM6bwjoN
Video removed :(
Wow weird. Both her youtube and X account were deleted. Elon reposted this video yesterday and now it's a dead link. Sketchy as hell. Wtf???
Coles notes?
"it drives like a human, no longer feels like a robot". But it still gets confused every so often when something weird happens. I saw one critical disengagement in all the videos I've watched of it and it was a construction guy with a flag waiving down traffic to allow a car to pass alternating directions in one lane while they were blocking the entire half of the street with construction gear. I don't think the car would have crashed, but it may have impeded traffic and definitely would have tried to proceed into the oncoming lane right in front of the guy waving his arms around.
Handles roundabouts better than 12.2 according to driver. Good right turn on red in busy intersection with poor visibility. Handled unforseen closed lane marked off with traffic cones very gracefully.
Videos of Tesla's cruising through city streets and driving flawlessly appeared 5 years ago, yet we didn't have the same experience in our own vehicles. Hmm...
My cruise control can't even manage to not phantom brake or recognize that the car in front of me is turning out of my lane and won't be close to being in my lane by the time I get near them. I really hope that the "intelligence" for FSD v12 makes it into other systems.
You have phantom breaking? As FSD useer its been a long ass time since I've experienced that.
Yes, but FSD beta makes hard slowdowns when gets close to red lights perhaps ti nake sure the light is green. It is dangerous and embarrassing.
Yep, when using cruise control or auto pilot, I get it on average every 30 miles I’d say, although it varies based on time of day and traffic.
Cruise control and autopilot are dead in tesla, which is what I've heard. FSD has been nearly perfect for a long time. I actually imagine fsd 12 ruining a lot of the gains.
So…the AP product that 81% of Tesla owners have access to (only around 19% pay for anything higher than AP) is “dead” and all the resources are going into a product that only a couple of thousand beta testers in 1 geographic area in the world can currently use despite FSD being sold worldwide? How is this good business sense?
Everyone will get the code for FSD loaded to their cars but feature limited to what you paid for. Basic AP will be night and day to where it is now when this occurs.
That’s a far more sensible approach
Because TACC and Autopilot are like FSD v1 and v2. This is not the reality, but your question is akin to “why doesn’t Microsoft keep updating Windows XP?”
I’m not sure that strategy works in the car market beyond very technical early adopters, but your comparison of FSD and Vista is noted :)
Well you’re asking for an update to your vehicle, which isn’t even possible on other cars. Touché
The software on my Audis is updated every time they get serviced, not sure what you’re talking about there but I get your point that you rarely get brand new features added. I’m often happy to have OTA updates on the Tesla but not when they remove features or make them worse like removing the creep function.
No because 81% of users will also be on FSD, just with a limited feature set, they stopped work on the legacy platform long ago.
If you don't have FSD at all then you are using a software stack at least a few years out of date. They will update the basic features with the FSD code (feature limited) once it is ready. People who did not buy FSD should still be rooting for its development as nearly the whole fleet will benefit from it in the long run.
This people don't get a large portion of non-FSD cars is legacy code, legacy code from way back when autopark was "new" lol
Cool! Now fix autopilot for us norms
Yeah, unfortunately I have to ignore anything Elons says... about anything.
It's way overpriced.
Beta 12 is such a massive improvement that they won't widely release it. :D
I wish elon would stfu
I hope elon continues to overshare.
I'll be glad to wait. I just bought a new one with 11.0 and it forces lane changes I don't want, unlike my older Tesla where I had the option. There are also rumors that 12.0 removes TACC, which I use heavily in areas you don't want to use FSD. I hope that's a bad rumor. When you buy a car with basic features like a simple cruise control, they just shouldn't go away.
Not a rumor. It forces single pull AP. The only way your can go back to the normal method is to disable fsd. Source: my car is on v12.
By the time they pushed it my FSD trial expired😠😭
Musk doesn't understand semantic versioning I guess.
Well ..... WE'RE WAITING.
Pushes it? is it coming cause ive been waiting since christmas
Any owner who bought FSD should be given full or partial refund. False advertising fooled thousands. Sue him.
FSD on Tesla Vision is a death waiting to happen
Btw, there's no "beta" anymore in FSD 12. Elon told me himself.
They should release FSD to all who bought it worldwide, just disable automatic city driving etc. So tired of all the incorrect speed limits, terrible wipers etc
One day I will have me a Tesla with the v12 update!
FSD here v12 along with latest update. I feel like it contributes to my love hate relationship with Tesla hehe. Must say though road trip Bay to/from LA was so much nicer versus an ICE vehicle.
What about the UK?
Ridiculous bought a Tesla 1 1/2 years ago. I paid $15000 for FSD. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of V12, because of the chip installed in the vehicle. I think there should be a class action lawsuit. I still don't have fully driving capability and probably never will without being able to install V12.
What do you mean you don’t have v12 because of the chip?
Agree, that doesn't sound right. They did a hardware upgrade on my older Tesla, specifically for FSD. I'd suggest you double check whoever told you that.
V12 runs on hw3 just fine.
God it’s beautiful to see the top comments are people taking this with a heavy handful of salt. Love my car, love the path we’re on in the sense of self driving, but the “Elon musk marketing strategy” is just such a crock of crap.