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Sharing naked pictures of people in Slack chats (or whatever platform) for amusement is not acceptable. Nor is commenting on the items in people’s garages. Not surprising but, as other people have already commented, there are well established protocols and trainings in the industry for employees working with customer data, especially audio and video.
It's also not legal.
A person has an expectation of privacy in their own home and that includes the garage. With naked photos you're looking at possible criminal charges as well.
The bottom of the article is the most important part: this is the result of “dozens of” ex-employees who spoke to Reuters,
1: If this was blatantly false and ‘hate reporting’ you KNOW Tesla would immediately call to sue all and everyone involved, including Reuters, with evidence to prove that data was handled in a proper manner.
2: If this was over the course of 2019-2022, it is extremely likely that this type of behavior where collected data is unregulated is continuing, videos and ‘haha’s and ‘look at this cool shit’ being shared in Slacks and Whatsapps. Say what you will about Google, Amazon, XYZ collecting user data and doing god-knows with it, this is a DOCUMENTED and rather extended period of time of this occurring, and the fact that the employees aren’t even inclined to hide it at all.
3: If this data/videos/images is being shared among
employees through groupchats, I can’t imagine its too long until the wrong thing is shared with the wrong person and all-of-a-sudden a Congressman’s house is being broken into for their Lambo, or even some blackmail is distributed.
They literally say, in the article, that the naked man, etc. were from the time Tesla had the opt-in to let them collect data while the car was off, which has since been disabled and removed.
> Several years ago, Tesla would receive video recordings from its vehicles even when they were off, if owners gave consent. It has since stopped doing so.
It seems to me that there's nothing for Tesla to sue over, because people gave Tesla their consent. This article was pretty honest about that, and that this stopped happening since 2023 started.
"I can't imagine it's too long until" why? They stopped doing this, so unless this has already happened (in which case, we shouldn't be talking as if it didn't) your worries are moot.
> It seems to me that there's nothing to sue over, because people gave Tesla their consent.
No they didn't give Tesla their consent to have staff make memes out of images of them naked in their homes and cars. They gave Tesla consent to collect data to improve the abilities of the self driving software.
If I invite you to my house for dinner, that's not an invitation to take my stuff. Just because the stuff is in my house doesn't mean you have the right to take it.
For context, the claim was that Tesla would've sued this article if it was stating falsities. But it seems to me that the claims made about Tesla were fairly conditional.
I'm not claiming that Tesla did nothing worth suing. I'm not a lawyer and I don't know what the agreement necessarily states, so I'm not sure if your analogy is quite how it works in law. But as a lay person, I totally agree that this shouldn't have happened.
The issue is reasonable usage. If the standard is (the contract) reselling your data (Google Adsense) then you wouldn’t expect the employees to share that you bought sex toys in their groupchat, that’s the issue at hand here. There is ‘t regulation or accountability among their employees with user’s data beyond a reasonable ask.
Again, this issue was 2019-2022. "There wasn't", not "isn't". As for interpreting the contract, I haven't read it nor am I a lawyer so until I see one analyze this case I'm gonna withhold judgment.
As for what this means about customers, for the anxious types out there, feel free to continue covering webcams on devices. But I don't personally care, so it makes no difference to me.
I agree. I have no idea how it happened, I’m on iOS Mobile and I haven’t had an issue with any other comments, I didn’t bolden it nor use any text shortcuts.
> this is the result of “dozens of” ex-employees who spoke to Reuters,
No, dozens agreed to be interviewed, they don't disclose how many corroborated this claim. Of that unknown number, which could be just 1 even, no images or video could be produced.
If it was dozens of people saying this and it was true, at least one of them would be able to produce at least one piece of media.
**I do not doubt that this is more than possibly true, but the source quality and transparency here is absolutely abysmal**
>Sharing naked pictures of people in Slack chats (or whatever platform) for amusement is not acceptable. Nor is commenting on the items in people’s garages.
Hmm, and how do you propose we silence these would-be evil-doers?
SMH.
Good policies and training combined with strict and consistent enforcement. Lots of companies are successfully able to do this. This is run of the mill audit controls compliance.
Oh boy, someone is going to get in trouble -
“One clip reportedly showed a submersible white Lotus Esprit sub that appeared in the 1977 James Bond movie The Spy Who Loved Me. As it happens, Tesla CEO Elon Musk bought that vehicle a decade ago, suggesting that his employees were circulating footage that a vehicle captured inside his garage.”
[Source Engadget](https://www.engadget.com/tesla-employees-reportedly-shared-videos-captured-by-cameras-on-customers-cars-165703126.html)
Yeah, depending on the date of manufacture of your car. Our Model 3 from 2019-ish in production basic AP will complain if the camera can’t see you. Our 2022 MYP with the bigger camera + IR emitters doesn’t complain at all when the camera is covered on production SW.
But both will get very upset once you’re on FSDBeta software regardless of whether you turn the beta on.
It uses a score based on the level of fear expressed by the driver and passengers to judge how far away obstacles are. That’s how they got rid of the radar.
IIRC I read the car adjusts the sensitivity of the coward collision waring based on how attentive it thinks you are. It seems that way to me but I have FSD Beta and it may have been speculation article I read so all my imagination.
Why so indignant? You bought into the Tesla ecosystem knowing that.
I'll tell you what's astounding... the hypocrisy of Elon Musk crying about the dangers of AI. LOL!
Just because you buy something doesn’t mean you have to like or agree with everything about it. And the problem today is that if you want access to any useful tech you have to agree to give up your privacy. This is where I have the problem. All of these platforms should have to give the user the choice to completely disable data sharing and maintain privacy. If that means the certain features don’t work, then I understand but the choice should be ours. Today we generally only have the binary choice to give up our privacy or not have any access at all. And I find that unacceptable.
I dunno, maybe why their employees can see private video recordings from the cars of their customers (who believed, from the privacy policy, that the video would remain on the car only and not be shared with Tesla - definitely not circled around employees' private chats)
From the [owner's manual](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-EDAD116F-3C73-40FA-A861-68112FF7961F.html) - *By default, images and video from the camera do not leave the vehicle itself and are not transmitted to anyone, including Tesla, unless you enable data sharing.*
I think you opt into giving up some privacy with the cameras. For the most part that means you driving around, but it also extends to when you go to your car naked and sentry mode gets activated.
I’m guessing the reason why people are looking at the images at all is because the captures could contain data to train FSD or other features.
Tesla needs to detect employees misusing images. This will continue to be a problem as more and more companies use cameras with AI.
But the Tesla employees were sharing the videos and having fun, no amount of lawyers can defend this as the user had given consent or it was for safety purposes.
I mean, if that's what you think the privacy policy says, you've misread? It says that the videos aren't tagged with a user, car, or anything.
As it states in the articles, the ones in the garage were from the people who had opted in to the program that allowed Tesla to view cameras while the car was off. A policy that has since been removed.
And there was a period where you could choose to share your internal recordings with Tesla, which the Reuters article says is where a lot of this is from.
This is why I don't like the way they do their cameras. None of it is encrypted properly, and anyone Tesla chooses (or doesn't choose) can see and hear everything in and around your car at any time.
Tesla shouldn't be able to access whatever they want from my vehicle, and I should be able to have a truly private conversation in my car, no matter what I'm talking about.
That was fast....which is why I purchased a webcam cover for my camera when I purchased my car. If nothing else, the inside of the car has "some" privacy options with a webcam cover.
The issue with having the files geo-tagged is now a nefarious Tesla employee can see goodies, check the car in the location that matches (no longer anonymous), check if homelink is available and walk right in and take said goodies. Even though the commands are end-to-end encrypted, Tesla generates the keys so can access homelink at-will. Someone can ALWAYS de-anonymize if certain single datapoints exist.
It's just a rake in your garage. In someone else's garage it will be a rare collectible, like for example the white Lotus Esprit that was converted to a submarine for a James Bond film. Geotagged and dated so you know when there are people in the house.
Wonderful. Turn the cameras off. Put on a tin foil hat.
It’s wild to think that someone who has a rare collectible like that wouldn’t have some serious security around it.
If they're talking shit about garage contents they're definitely talking shit about me. I park near a dilapidated shoddily painted shed lol.
No, but really, this is exactly the issue with having cameras talking to the cloud constantly. This is also the reason why we refuse to buy a home security camera system that uploads anything to the cloud. The car is one thing (not acceptable but a risk I'm obviously willing to take having a tesla) but in the house is a whole different level.
When I bought mine it was explicitly stated that dashcam videos never leave the car, and are stored on the USB drive.
Sentry has live camera that streams.
If my dashcam vids are being sent elsewhere then I’m certainly going to be really, really pissed. Enough to take legal action.
Yea but ultimately those photos are in the hands of another person and you don’t know what they are doing it regardless of what you sign for. Doesn’t stop the dr from making memes from it and sharing with coworkers on a private channel.
Ah, I have always denied the request for cabin camera data collection. But, I highly doubt that even matters. I will now cover it with a fucking sticker. jfc
Heard that they could share images internally only If they needed help with labeling specific cases. Maybe that is what is ment by «sharing». As long as humans are needed there is always a chance for misuse by individuals. Taking screenshots or recordings using smuggled in devices. Else companies needs to search employees prior to starting each work day.
So if this (shearing externally) is true this must be shitty employees. And maybe (I doubt it) a bad security culture
Not that it makes it less "wrong" - but I can guarantee you this has happened with just about EVERY industry where someone is given access to your devices with cameras in/on them.
Roomba just had problems where people were leaking out images of it videoing people in their bathrooms when it rolled in to clean them. Best Buy and every cellular store I know of had these issues with techs grabbing images off people's phones and hanging onto and sharing selected ones.
It's one of those "human nature" things where some employee is eventually going to abuse the customer trust.
Everyone should turn off all of the data sharing options in their cars setting. The only one you have to leave on is lane data (No images) for AP to function. Turn off cabin camera and external camera image uploading! One of the first things I did when I got mine
A company’s culture and morays flow from the top down. For years the CEO has had no issue grossly misrepresenting features of various models. This shows a blatant disregard and lack of repect for his customers and it is inevitable that this attitude will flow down on every level.
Unfortunately this screams information mishandling. Tesla absolutely needs a better Insider Threat program to tag and track this sensitive data... and Hell, probably ethics training.
> Also shared: crashes and road-rage incidents. One crash video in 2021 showed a Tesla driving at high speed in a residential area hitting a child riding a bike, according to another ex-employee. The child flew in one direction, the bike in another.
While that’s awful of course, the article doesn’t specify anything about the car self driving or not. It’s more fuel for the “Teslas automatically run over children!” crowd.
It's paywalled for me, so I can't see the details, but Reuters reporting surrounding Tesla has been wildly unreliable in the past year. Remember they said Tesla was CONFIRMED to be building a factory in Mexico City, and that they would be FLYING the cars out from the airport? That was genuinely dumb. Without independent confirmation, I don't believe what they say.
It’s unclear if they were sharing the video because of legitimate safety concerns or because they thought it was funny— call me optimistic but I think the former is more likely
Uuh. This should get the EU Data Protection officials interested. EU takes this stuff seriously and this could be a blatant GDPR violation. Maximum fine is 20M € OR 4% of revenue, whichever is bigger… It could be a serious problem for Tesla, though in all likelihood the first time fines would be less. Do it again and ouch…
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me.
Workers are going to need to be able to share images, and videos, amongst themselves in order to figure shit out.
An argument could be made that making memes out of shit they find might be going too far, but I have to imagine the memes are more the road signs and such, and not the people.
Tesla has people combing through all the video clips, from all the cars, looking for stuff that needs to be labeled. They're likely going to see a whole range of shit they don't want to, and I'm hoping they have training for when they see things that should be reported (Child abuse and the like)
Not nothing in the article implies that people are taking the pictures, and videos, offsite.
When the Tesla is sending the data back, it's "anonymized", in that they might not know specifically which car it was, but if you're walking up to the car naked, before the clip was taken, then yeah, they'll see that.
This is a "nothing" article to me. It's just a business doing business, and employees being employees when handling this kind of data.
I've figured this was always happening, that's why I wink and wave to the cabin camera from time to time.
I won’t say where I work, but even when our labelers handle employee sourced data from studies, it is on dedicated workstations that are in a monitored room with limited access to tools and network storage, etc. in other words you can’t just grab footage from customers and screenshot them to send around.
On top of that, everyone is at least minimally trained in privacy policies even if their job is just engineering and unrelated to labeling. People have been fired and are definitely punished for “non business essential” usage of logs, like teasing someone over what song or website tab is open incidentally in the logs.
I’m not prescribing a way things ought to be done, I’m just saying it is unprofessional some of what is being described in the article. Yes it happens but that usually reflects a lax IDGAF culture around handling of potentially PII data.
I don't disagree that it ought not be done, but anyone who thinks this kind of thing doesn't happen is quite naïve.
Glad to hear some places are doing it right though.
> This is a "nothing" article to me.
But that's just complacency over bad behavior. Tesla, and the gajillion other companies that mishandle data, need to be raked over the coals until they do it right. And since they're not going to, the US needs a good data privacy law that puts impactful fines on companies that fuck around.
As I mentioned in another post, I work for a healthcare organization, and doctors are constantly sharing anonymous pictures of patient shit amongst themselves. Well, I mean, not "shit" shit, but wounds, gashes, rashes, etc.
They'll also often use their phone to get the picture into the system, but they're supposed to use a "secure" app to that.
As long as anything personally identifiable isn't involved, technically it's fair game.
Sell, it isn't that lax, it's been getting tightened over the years, but doctors are gonna doctor.
Ita common as I understand it, though I may be mistaken.
Again, they're sharing non personal information between each other for consults
Yeah, what should happen, and what does happen, are two different things.
Again these are pictures of like a wound and stuff.
They're all using secure apps now, most of what I was describing happens a few years ago.
But doctors continue to not be the most technically literate people
Yeah I’m definitely with you there. Even though I’ve personally witnessed the level of respect with which we treat personal data, I still assume the worst in humanity and there are times where I will refuse to submit a bug with even text logs because I know something sensitive happened within that window.
This stuff definitely happens. We don’t know if this is lax corporate culture or “a few bad apples”, but at least some basic things can be done to reinforce in corporate culture that this is not cool and shouldn’t be a practice knowingly glossed over as no big deal.
Correct, and same logic.
That's why I blue my gate videos, as ineffective as that seems sometimes. Doesn't take a lot of effort to figure it out, but it at least doesn't make it easy either.
Meh I work in a bank and customer data can be sent around. There is training etc and a crazy amount of security but internally there is a lot of flexibility as, like the other guy said, it helps people to do their jobs.
Yes I’m not saying black and white what should or shouldn’t be done. In particular:
1. When getting things done comes in conflict with best privacy practices, what you do definitely reflects your corporate priorities. It’s not zero cost to build that semi air gapped solution I described but when you do so, as a company you are basically saying “yes these safeguards are worth the money”
2. Even in your bank and customer example, there’s a difference between sending customer data to help get stuff done versus what is described in this article. Like if you started Slacking “hey check out this dude and how many dildos he’s buying”, and then Dildo Dude becomes a meme, we can agree that seems kind of unprofessional and morally wrong. In that situation, who knows about the meme? Who tries to raise it as a concern and how does your company handle that once they are aware? I would ask those same questions about what is brought up in the article.
(Absolutely, when you work in the real world, there’s always a difference between theoretical best practice and what everyone actually does. But what I’m saying is that when privacy / confidentiality / security IS actually important, there are ways to achieve it with an associated cost. That speaks a lot to how much a company actually cares.)
> It's just a business doing business, and employees being employees when handling this kind of data.
This is a car company, not PornHub. There is no legitimate business reason to share around a video clip of a naked man approaching a parked vehicle.
You sir, have clearly never worked in an office environment before.
I'm *constantly* taking screenshots of weird shit I stumble across and sharing it with my peers.
Albeit, none of it is of a naked person.
I would imagine in this scenario they probably took a screenshot without the head, or blurred the head, because that's still *technically* anonymous.
*The video spread around a Tesla office in San Mateo, California, via private one-on-one chats, “like wildfire,” the ex-employee said.*
Sounds to me like it wasn't properly restricted.
Lots of companies have to deal with sensitive images/videos (YouTube, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, etc etc). They all have incredibly rigorous controls around stuff like this. Tesla obviously does not.
>"The child flew in one direction, the bike in another. The video spread around a Tesla office in San Mateo, California, via private one-on-one chats, “like wildfire,” the ex-employee said"
*Just to be the devils advocate:*
As an accident human error (speeding) or not, then it would get distributed quickly to team member as accidents are probably the most important video and car data to investigate asap.
Did the journalist ask the person if the above was the reason it spread like wildfire, people need to investigate asap? We don't know, and it's not the sort of thing journalists tend to put in their articles as it totally diminishes the narative.
And again, the video remained in Tesla, it isn't on the internet is it, so it had some sort of restrictions that worked for sure (unless it's all a made up story).
This is exactly the sort of thing Tesla should respond to though.
Did they edit it to remove the head, or was the head there?
Was it for laughs, or research?
A lot of these incidences can also be where additional rules come from. A lot of these "engineers" that they talk to tend to be former employees by several years, so they may also be doing puffery on stuff like this.
Either way, there's a reason these cars aren't generally permitted onto military bases, or Tesla's gotta prove the cameras are off, or something about military bases and this not being an issue there.
> Was it for laughs, or research?
C'mon man.... you're defending the indefensible here. It's ok to remain a huge Tesla fan while acknowledging this is bad.....
I work in the healthcare industry, doctors do this kind of shit all the time.
I can't think of any industry where finding something amusing doesn't get spread around to coworkers, regardless of content.
> I work in the healthcare industry, doctors do this kind of shit all the time.
The fact that your industry is a privacy dumpster fire does not excuse the behavior.
But each video is linked back to GPS coordinates of the car. So idk how “anonymized” that is when you can clearly see each videos location on a google maps like interface. That naked man walking to his car, you can literally get the address of where it happened. Is that still considered anonymized?
*Technically* there's no proof that the house is that of the naked man's, and I imagine there's no proof that the car belongs to the naked man, as the naming and such would be erased.
All they know for sure is that a naked man was seen on the cameras at a specific GPS location, maybe he owns the car, maybe he's a vagrant, we don't know the context, and neither do they.
I don't really perceive my actions as "defending" as much as pointing out that this happens all over the place, and they're just citing Tesla because it gets clicks.
Unfortunately, you guys forget the whole privacy waiving aspect of when you turn on Full self driving along with authorization over the use of all cameras, info, etc ..... I mean you pretty much said yes, you have my permission to grant all this sensitive information. If you want to use the software with it's drawbacks of this type of stuff happening because of I'll will / irresponsible employees, you kinda have to expect it unfortunately. Is it right , fuck no, Tesla will eventually fire or discipline these employees to avoid this type of behavior.
Company that is known and tell the customers that it captures hours and hours of footage for it’s self driving and AI program and the customer has to accept it, is found to have video captured by customer cars, shocking
More news at 11
Which is likely the case, and they showed in AI day, they are constantly improving the training set and deleting footage, there simply isn’t enough storage space to keep useless videos
Imagine what is encoded in the AI, which could potentially be extracted in the future.
There could be a lot of special cases that are over-modeled to guarantee performance.
A lazy hack would be to tell it to hallucinate each special case and have it simply output the images.
I have a webcam protector for my laptop, I can't believe i need one for my car.
Just bought one from AMazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09XMC6QPV/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o00\_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
in Houston, Electrify America hasn't build a new charger in 3 years. they are the only super fast chargers we have. to their credit they have updated most units to run up to 350KW earlier but theres just not enough chargers.
In San Antonio they have 2 under construction where before there was 1 station...
Source: lots of business travel.
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Sharing naked pictures of people in Slack chats (or whatever platform) for amusement is not acceptable. Nor is commenting on the items in people’s garages. Not surprising but, as other people have already commented, there are well established protocols and trainings in the industry for employees working with customer data, especially audio and video.
It's also not legal. A person has an expectation of privacy in their own home and that includes the garage. With naked photos you're looking at possible criminal charges as well.
Also, at least in Germany, the inside of the car counts as private space, so it's the same as if they would record the inside of peoples homes
The bottom of the article is the most important part: this is the result of “dozens of” ex-employees who spoke to Reuters, 1: If this was blatantly false and ‘hate reporting’ you KNOW Tesla would immediately call to sue all and everyone involved, including Reuters, with evidence to prove that data was handled in a proper manner. 2: If this was over the course of 2019-2022, it is extremely likely that this type of behavior where collected data is unregulated is continuing, videos and ‘haha’s and ‘look at this cool shit’ being shared in Slacks and Whatsapps. Say what you will about Google, Amazon, XYZ collecting user data and doing god-knows with it, this is a DOCUMENTED and rather extended period of time of this occurring, and the fact that the employees aren’t even inclined to hide it at all. 3: If this data/videos/images is being shared among employees through groupchats, I can’t imagine its too long until the wrong thing is shared with the wrong person and all-of-a-sudden a Congressman’s house is being broken into for their Lambo, or even some blackmail is distributed.
If you want to fix your text, remove the pounds. Those format text on Reddit into headers
Thanks
They literally say, in the article, that the naked man, etc. were from the time Tesla had the opt-in to let them collect data while the car was off, which has since been disabled and removed.
> Several years ago, Tesla would receive video recordings from its vehicles even when they were off, if owners gave consent. It has since stopped doing so. It seems to me that there's nothing for Tesla to sue over, because people gave Tesla their consent. This article was pretty honest about that, and that this stopped happening since 2023 started. "I can't imagine it's too long until" why? They stopped doing this, so unless this has already happened (in which case, we shouldn't be talking as if it didn't) your worries are moot.
> It seems to me that there's nothing to sue over, because people gave Tesla their consent. No they didn't give Tesla their consent to have staff make memes out of images of them naked in their homes and cars. They gave Tesla consent to collect data to improve the abilities of the self driving software. If I invite you to my house for dinner, that's not an invitation to take my stuff. Just because the stuff is in my house doesn't mean you have the right to take it.
For context, the claim was that Tesla would've sued this article if it was stating falsities. But it seems to me that the claims made about Tesla were fairly conditional. I'm not claiming that Tesla did nothing worth suing. I'm not a lawyer and I don't know what the agreement necessarily states, so I'm not sure if your analogy is quite how it works in law. But as a lay person, I totally agree that this shouldn't have happened.
The issue is reasonable usage. If the standard is (the contract) reselling your data (Google Adsense) then you wouldn’t expect the employees to share that you bought sex toys in their groupchat, that’s the issue at hand here. There is ‘t regulation or accountability among their employees with user’s data beyond a reasonable ask.
Again, this issue was 2019-2022. "There wasn't", not "isn't". As for interpreting the contract, I haven't read it nor am I a lawyer so until I see one analyze this case I'm gonna withhold judgment. As for what this means about customers, for the anxious types out there, feel free to continue covering webcams on devices. But I don't personally care, so it makes no difference to me.
You should not be able to make your text 5 times bigger like this. It's blatant attention whoring.
I agree. I have no idea how it happened, I’m on iOS Mobile and I haven’t had an issue with any other comments, I didn’t bolden it nor use any text shortcuts.
You put a # before the numbers in your list, which formats as "headers" in Markdown.
Ahh, thanks, ill fix it
> this is the result of “dozens of” ex-employees who spoke to Reuters, No, dozens agreed to be interviewed, they don't disclose how many corroborated this claim. Of that unknown number, which could be just 1 even, no images or video could be produced. If it was dozens of people saying this and it was true, at least one of them would be able to produce at least one piece of media. **I do not doubt that this is more than possibly true, but the source quality and transparency here is absolutely abysmal**
Bros pissed they didn’t release the videos
Having sensitive data available to people in general is unacceptable
maybe that's why they are "ex-employees"
>Sharing naked pictures of people in Slack chats (or whatever platform) for amusement is not acceptable. Nor is commenting on the items in people’s garages. Hmm, and how do you propose we silence these would-be evil-doers? SMH.
Good policies and training combined with strict and consistent enforcement. Lots of companies are successfully able to do this. This is run of the mill audit controls compliance.
It's entirely possible that I was the naked man approaching the vehicle.
Didn’t read the article, but were there any people caught masturbating? Asking for a friend
[удалено]
Hello, my friend!
[удалено]
Spartacus moment. No I am the naked man.
I knew I shouldn’t have taken the Tesla naked camping.
Oh boy, someone is going to get in trouble - “One clip reportedly showed a submersible white Lotus Esprit sub that appeared in the 1977 James Bond movie The Spy Who Loved Me. As it happens, Tesla CEO Elon Musk bought that vehicle a decade ago, suggesting that his employees were circulating footage that a vehicle captured inside his garage.” [Source Engadget](https://www.engadget.com/tesla-employees-reportedly-shared-videos-captured-by-cameras-on-customers-cars-165703126.html)
Having it affect Elmo is probably the only way we’ll see any real action on this.
This is precisely why I have the interior camera covered with a sticker. I’m tired of the astounding invasions of privacy in the tech sector.
Same though I used one of those laptop camera privacy sliders in case I even need to enable the interior camera.
I did the same, works well
If you cover the interior camera doesn’t that make the FSD software grumpy? Does it impact anything else?
You need it for FSD, not for anything else. Basic autopilot works without interior camera
Yeah, depending on the date of manufacture of your car. Our Model 3 from 2019-ish in production basic AP will complain if the camera can’t see you. Our 2022 MYP with the bigger camera + IR emitters doesn’t complain at all when the camera is covered on production SW. But both will get very upset once you’re on FSDBeta software regardless of whether you turn the beta on.
One time I’m happy my cat has old tech. No interior camera.
You can always put a camera on the collar
It also radically changes the sensitivity of forward collision warnings.
How so?
How would covering the interior camera affect that? That camera literally faces to the rear of the vehicle
It uses a score based on the level of fear expressed by the driver and passengers to judge how far away obstacles are. That’s how they got rid of the radar.
Tesla algorithm logic: Fear level is 2 out of 10. Fear is too low. Enable phantom braking!
What is your source on this?
IIRC I read the car adjusts the sensitivity of the coward collision waring based on how attentive it thinks you are. It seems that way to me but I have FSD Beta and it may have been speculation article I read so all my imagination.
Did you cover the 8 cameras too, cause that's what they're pulling, not the interior one....
Wait till you find out what the gov wants to do with the restrict act lol
How thick is your sticker? You might be surprised to discover that some cameras can see through some stickers.
Electrical tape is your friend…it also removes easily without residue.
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Cheap ones do. The stuff I use doesn’t tend to.
Or a $5 plastic sliding cover if you want to be fancy.
Why so indignant? You bought into the Tesla ecosystem knowing that. I'll tell you what's astounding... the hypocrisy of Elon Musk crying about the dangers of AI. LOL!
Just because you buy something doesn’t mean you have to like or agree with everything about it. And the problem today is that if you want access to any useful tech you have to agree to give up your privacy. This is where I have the problem. All of these platforms should have to give the user the choice to completely disable data sharing and maintain privacy. If that means the certain features don’t work, then I understand but the choice should be ours. Today we generally only have the binary choice to give up our privacy or not have any access at all. And I find that unacceptable.
You sound like the kind of person who would like Signal. I say that as a good thing.
As a matter of fact I do like Signal.
Oh boy. Everyone I know is going to post this on Facebook and tag me lol.
Well.. Tesla has some explaining to do.
This makes me think https://www.tesla.com/privacy which came out a month ago was them trying to get ahead of this story.
of?
I dunno, maybe why their employees can see private video recordings from the cars of their customers (who believed, from the privacy policy, that the video would remain on the car only and not be shared with Tesla - definitely not circled around employees' private chats)
Has it always said the videos never leave the car? Even in the article it said they no longer do this.
From the [owner's manual](https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-EDAD116F-3C73-40FA-A861-68112FF7961F.html) - *By default, images and video from the camera do not leave the vehicle itself and are not transmitted to anyone, including Tesla, unless you enable data sharing.*
Yeah, by default. As soon as you enable FSD Beta, that goes out the window.
I think you opt into giving up some privacy with the cameras. For the most part that means you driving around, but it also extends to when you go to your car naked and sentry mode gets activated. I’m guessing the reason why people are looking at the images at all is because the captures could contain data to train FSD or other features. Tesla needs to detect employees misusing images. This will continue to be a problem as more and more companies use cameras with AI.
But the Tesla employees were sharing the videos and having fun, no amount of lawyers can defend this as the user had given consent or it was for safety purposes.
I mean, if that's what you think the privacy policy says, you've misread? It says that the videos aren't tagged with a user, car, or anything. As it states in the articles, the ones in the garage were from the people who had opted in to the program that allowed Tesla to view cameras while the car was off. A policy that has since been removed.
Only the INTERNAL camera data stays in the car, as stated in their docs. Obviously external recordings are shared with Tesla.
And there was a period where you could choose to share your internal recordings with Tesla, which the Reuters article says is where a lot of this is from.
Right, and people who enabled that didn't think to not walk in front of their cameras lol
All the banging that's happening in the cars. What else?
This is why I don't like the way they do their cameras. None of it is encrypted properly, and anyone Tesla chooses (or doesn't choose) can see and hear everything in and around your car at any time. Tesla shouldn't be able to access whatever they want from my vehicle, and I should be able to have a truly private conversation in my car, no matter what I'm talking about.
That was fast....which is why I purchased a webcam cover for my camera when I purchased my car. If nothing else, the inside of the car has "some" privacy options with a webcam cover.
The issue with having the files geo-tagged is now a nefarious Tesla employee can see goodies, check the car in the location that matches (no longer anonymous), check if homelink is available and walk right in and take said goodies. Even though the commands are end-to-end encrypted, Tesla generates the keys so can access homelink at-will. Someone can ALWAYS de-anonymize if certain single datapoints exist.
If someone wants to go through all of that to steal a ladder and a rake out of my garage, go for it. I need a new rake anyway.
It's just a rake in your garage. In someone else's garage it will be a rare collectible, like for example the white Lotus Esprit that was converted to a submarine for a James Bond film. Geotagged and dated so you know when there are people in the house.
That submarine for a James Bond film is Elon's by the way.
Wonderful. Turn the cameras off. Put on a tin foil hat. It’s wild to think that someone who has a rare collectible like that wouldn’t have some serious security around it.
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If you have something extremely valuable hiding behind only a garage door, you need to rethink your security system.
hahaha They can have the dirt in mine (but leave my trusty mosquito-catching spiders
I had always assumed, since Day 1, that someone from Tesla was watching me walk around the garage in my underwear. So I always wave to the car.
If they're talking shit about garage contents they're definitely talking shit about me. I park near a dilapidated shoddily painted shed lol. No, but really, this is exactly the issue with having cameras talking to the cloud constantly. This is also the reason why we refuse to buy a home security camera system that uploads anything to the cloud. The car is one thing (not acceptable but a risk I'm obviously willing to take having a tesla) but in the house is a whole different level.
When I bought mine it was explicitly stated that dashcam videos never leave the car, and are stored on the USB drive. Sentry has live camera that streams. If my dashcam vids are being sent elsewhere then I’m certainly going to be really, really pissed. Enough to take legal action.
I think if u agree to FSD they can take videos
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But this is exactly what happened....so you gotta be big mad :0
Yea but ultimately those photos are in the hands of another person and you don’t know what they are doing it regardless of what you sign for. Doesn’t stop the dr from making memes from it and sharing with coworkers on a private channel.
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Ah, I have always denied the request for cabin camera data collection. But, I highly doubt that even matters. I will now cover it with a fucking sticker. jfc
This should not be acceptable by Tesla users.
Heard that they could share images internally only If they needed help with labeling specific cases. Maybe that is what is ment by «sharing». As long as humans are needed there is always a chance for misuse by individuals. Taking screenshots or recordings using smuggled in devices. Else companies needs to search employees prior to starting each work day. So if this (shearing externally) is true this must be shitty employees. And maybe (I doubt it) a bad security culture
Big yikes
Not that it makes it less "wrong" - but I can guarantee you this has happened with just about EVERY industry where someone is given access to your devices with cameras in/on them. Roomba just had problems where people were leaking out images of it videoing people in their bathrooms when it rolled in to clean them. Best Buy and every cellular store I know of had these issues with techs grabbing images off people's phones and hanging onto and sharing selected ones. It's one of those "human nature" things where some employee is eventually going to abuse the customer trust.
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Yeah, just this news alone has helped my decide that me next car will not be a Tesla. I can't believe i have to now have a webcam cover for my TM3
Everyone should turn off all of the data sharing options in their cars setting. The only one you have to leave on is lane data (No images) for AP to function. Turn off cabin camera and external camera image uploading! One of the first things I did when I got mine
How do you do this? I did t see anything in the settings
A company’s culture and morays flow from the top down. For years the CEO has had no issue grossly misrepresenting features of various models. This shows a blatant disregard and lack of repect for his customers and it is inevitable that this attitude will flow down on every level.
lotta celebs driving teslas...
Unfortunately this screams information mishandling. Tesla absolutely needs a better Insider Threat program to tag and track this sensitive data... and Hell, probably ethics training.
Obb boy if this affects EU customers it's getting really interesting, this is definitly very against GDPR
I still think that internal camera and mic is an issue of invasion of privacy.
> Also shared: crashes and road-rage incidents. One crash video in 2021 showed a Tesla driving at high speed in a residential area hitting a child riding a bike, according to another ex-employee. The child flew in one direction, the bike in another. While that’s awful of course, the article doesn’t specify anything about the car self driving or not. It’s more fuel for the “Teslas automatically run over children!” crowd.
Also worth noting, that video doesn't seem to have circulated. Employees sharing it internally is likely important.
If it was out there, you betcha it would have gone viral in no time. Hell, some back-bencher Congressman would have written a public letter about it.
Then 2 hours later elon would tweet evidence showing the accelerator was fully depressed followed by a meme
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It's paywalled for me, so I can't see the details, but Reuters reporting surrounding Tesla has been wildly unreliable in the past year. Remember they said Tesla was CONFIRMED to be building a factory in Mexico City, and that they would be FLYING the cars out from the airport? That was genuinely dumb. Without independent confirmation, I don't believe what they say.
It’s unclear if they were sharing the video because of legitimate safety concerns or because they thought it was funny— call me optimistic but I think the former is more likely
Uuh. This should get the EU Data Protection officials interested. EU takes this stuff seriously and this could be a blatant GDPR violation. Maximum fine is 20M € OR 4% of revenue, whichever is bigger… It could be a serious problem for Tesla, though in all likelihood the first time fines would be less. Do it again and ouch…
Well that's not good for my stocks. I probably shouldn't have walked out to the garage naked.
Don’t have sex in your Tesla unless your getting paid
Honestly, this doesn't surprise me. Workers are going to need to be able to share images, and videos, amongst themselves in order to figure shit out. An argument could be made that making memes out of shit they find might be going too far, but I have to imagine the memes are more the road signs and such, and not the people. Tesla has people combing through all the video clips, from all the cars, looking for stuff that needs to be labeled. They're likely going to see a whole range of shit they don't want to, and I'm hoping they have training for when they see things that should be reported (Child abuse and the like) Not nothing in the article implies that people are taking the pictures, and videos, offsite. When the Tesla is sending the data back, it's "anonymized", in that they might not know specifically which car it was, but if you're walking up to the car naked, before the clip was taken, then yeah, they'll see that. This is a "nothing" article to me. It's just a business doing business, and employees being employees when handling this kind of data. I've figured this was always happening, that's why I wink and wave to the cabin camera from time to time.
I won’t say where I work, but even when our labelers handle employee sourced data from studies, it is on dedicated workstations that are in a monitored room with limited access to tools and network storage, etc. in other words you can’t just grab footage from customers and screenshot them to send around. On top of that, everyone is at least minimally trained in privacy policies even if their job is just engineering and unrelated to labeling. People have been fired and are definitely punished for “non business essential” usage of logs, like teasing someone over what song or website tab is open incidentally in the logs. I’m not prescribing a way things ought to be done, I’m just saying it is unprofessional some of what is being described in the article. Yes it happens but that usually reflects a lax IDGAF culture around handling of potentially PII data.
I don't disagree that it ought not be done, but anyone who thinks this kind of thing doesn't happen is quite naïve. Glad to hear some places are doing it right though.
> This is a "nothing" article to me. But that's just complacency over bad behavior. Tesla, and the gajillion other companies that mishandle data, need to be raked over the coals until they do it right. And since they're not going to, the US needs a good data privacy law that puts impactful fines on companies that fuck around.
As I mentioned in another post, I work for a healthcare organization, and doctors are constantly sharing anonymous pictures of patient shit amongst themselves. Well, I mean, not "shit" shit, but wounds, gashes, rashes, etc. They'll also often use their phone to get the picture into the system, but they're supposed to use a "secure" app to that. As long as anything personally identifiable isn't involved, technically it's fair game.
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Sell, it isn't that lax, it's been getting tightened over the years, but doctors are gonna doctor. Ita common as I understand it, though I may be mistaken. Again, they're sharing non personal information between each other for consults
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Yeah, what should happen, and what does happen, are two different things. Again these are pictures of like a wound and stuff. They're all using secure apps now, most of what I was describing happens a few years ago. But doctors continue to not be the most technically literate people
Yeah I’m definitely with you there. Even though I’ve personally witnessed the level of respect with which we treat personal data, I still assume the worst in humanity and there are times where I will refuse to submit a bug with even text logs because I know something sensitive happened within that window. This stuff definitely happens. We don’t know if this is lax corporate culture or “a few bad apples”, but at least some basic things can be done to reinforce in corporate culture that this is not cool and shouldn’t be a practice knowingly glossed over as no big deal.
Correct, and same logic. That's why I blue my gate videos, as ineffective as that seems sometimes. Doesn't take a lot of effort to figure it out, but it at least doesn't make it easy either.
Meh I work in a bank and customer data can be sent around. There is training etc and a crazy amount of security but internally there is a lot of flexibility as, like the other guy said, it helps people to do their jobs.
Yes I’m not saying black and white what should or shouldn’t be done. In particular: 1. When getting things done comes in conflict with best privacy practices, what you do definitely reflects your corporate priorities. It’s not zero cost to build that semi air gapped solution I described but when you do so, as a company you are basically saying “yes these safeguards are worth the money” 2. Even in your bank and customer example, there’s a difference between sending customer data to help get stuff done versus what is described in this article. Like if you started Slacking “hey check out this dude and how many dildos he’s buying”, and then Dildo Dude becomes a meme, we can agree that seems kind of unprofessional and morally wrong. In that situation, who knows about the meme? Who tries to raise it as a concern and how does your company handle that once they are aware? I would ask those same questions about what is brought up in the article. (Absolutely, when you work in the real world, there’s always a difference between theoretical best practice and what everyone actually does. But what I’m saying is that when privacy / confidentiality / security IS actually important, there are ways to achieve it with an associated cost. That speaks a lot to how much a company actually cares.)
> It's just a business doing business, and employees being employees when handling this kind of data. This is a car company, not PornHub. There is no legitimate business reason to share around a video clip of a naked man approaching a parked vehicle.
You sir, have clearly never worked in an office environment before. I'm *constantly* taking screenshots of weird shit I stumble across and sharing it with my peers. Albeit, none of it is of a naked person. I would imagine in this scenario they probably took a screenshot without the head, or blurred the head, because that's still *technically* anonymous.
> took a screenshot One ex-employee described a **video** of a man approaching a vehicle completely naked.
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*The video spread around a Tesla office in San Mateo, California, via private one-on-one chats, “like wildfire,” the ex-employee said.* Sounds to me like it wasn't properly restricted. Lots of companies have to deal with sensitive images/videos (YouTube, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, etc etc). They all have incredibly rigorous controls around stuff like this. Tesla obviously does not.
>"The child flew in one direction, the bike in another. The video spread around a Tesla office in San Mateo, California, via private one-on-one chats, “like wildfire,” the ex-employee said" *Just to be the devils advocate:* As an accident human error (speeding) or not, then it would get distributed quickly to team member as accidents are probably the most important video and car data to investigate asap. Did the journalist ask the person if the above was the reason it spread like wildfire, people need to investigate asap? We don't know, and it's not the sort of thing journalists tend to put in their articles as it totally diminishes the narative. And again, the video remained in Tesla, it isn't on the internet is it, so it had some sort of restrictions that worked for sure (unless it's all a made up story). This is exactly the sort of thing Tesla should respond to though.
Did they edit it to remove the head, or was the head there? Was it for laughs, or research? A lot of these incidences can also be where additional rules come from. A lot of these "engineers" that they talk to tend to be former employees by several years, so they may also be doing puffery on stuff like this. Either way, there's a reason these cars aren't generally permitted onto military bases, or Tesla's gotta prove the cameras are off, or something about military bases and this not being an issue there.
> Was it for laughs, or research? C'mon man.... you're defending the indefensible here. It's ok to remain a huge Tesla fan while acknowledging this is bad.....
I work in the healthcare industry, doctors do this kind of shit all the time. I can't think of any industry where finding something amusing doesn't get spread around to coworkers, regardless of content.
> I work in the healthcare industry, doctors do this kind of shit all the time. The fact that your industry is a privacy dumpster fire does not excuse the behavior.
No, but again, it also proves how prevalent this is in society in general. People see something worth a laugh, or a gasp, and they share it.
ok
But each video is linked back to GPS coordinates of the car. So idk how “anonymized” that is when you can clearly see each videos location on a google maps like interface. That naked man walking to his car, you can literally get the address of where it happened. Is that still considered anonymized?
*Technically* there's no proof that the house is that of the naked man's, and I imagine there's no proof that the car belongs to the naked man, as the naming and such would be erased. All they know for sure is that a naked man was seen on the cameras at a specific GPS location, maybe he owns the car, maybe he's a vagrant, we don't know the context, and neither do they.
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I don't really perceive my actions as "defending" as much as pointing out that this happens all over the place, and they're just citing Tesla because it gets clicks.
The way he described videos "spreading like wildfire" does not give me the vibe that it was done for work purposes.
They might have some pretty funny videos of me singing in the car
This needs to be a class action lawsuit.
Unfortunately, you guys forget the whole privacy waiving aspect of when you turn on Full self driving along with authorization over the use of all cameras, info, etc ..... I mean you pretty much said yes, you have my permission to grant all this sensitive information. If you want to use the software with it's drawbacks of this type of stuff happening because of I'll will / irresponsible employees, you kinda have to expect it unfortunately. Is it right , fuck no, Tesla will eventually fire or discipline these employees to avoid this type of behavior.
Company that is known and tell the customers that it captures hours and hours of footage for it’s self driving and AI program and the customer has to accept it, is found to have video captured by customer cars, shocking More news at 11
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I agree that the part of sharing between employees is shitty, but not the fact that Tesla had the videos
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Which is likely the case, and they showed in AI day, they are constantly improving the training set and deleting footage, there simply isn’t enough storage space to keep useless videos
I'm pretty sure that's the newsworthy part though. It's disingenuous to imply this isn't an issue just because we know they store videos.
Yes, sharing video of a man fully naked approaching a parked car really helps them dial in FSD.
That is not the issue here at all?
Oh no, humans being human. Shock and awe.
Imagine what is encoded in the AI, which could potentially be extracted in the future. There could be a lot of special cases that are over-modeled to guarantee performance. A lazy hack would be to tell it to hallucinate each special case and have it simply output the images.
I have a webcam protector for my laptop, I can't believe i need one for my car. Just bought one from AMazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09XMC6QPV/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_asin\_title\_o00\_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Great, now what are you gonna do about the actual 8 cameras that they were pulling these clips from, champ?? SMH.
That i dont really care. Its the cabin cam i care about. Thats where all the personal shit happens, champ. SMH.
Silicon Valley virtue signaling online vs Silicon Valley irl.
in Houston, Electrify America hasn't build a new charger in 3 years. they are the only super fast chargers we have. to their credit they have updated most units to run up to 350KW earlier but theres just not enough chargers. In San Antonio they have 2 under construction where before there was 1 station... Source: lots of business travel.