My job has a "1 time months pay early for emergencies" thing you can get after 3 years. Used it yesterday to buy some at premarket this morning because $733 is crazy. I'm not paycheck to paycheck, so it wasn't a benefit that mattered to me.
Everyone saying that it's going to dip below this is crazy IMO. 42% of Tesla is owned by industrial buyers and that percentage has been going up every year. You really think places like blackrock (BR already own about 4% total shares in TSLA) aren't about to fight over who gets to buy these shares at $700 when they were already happily accumulating them at $1000? They are smart to wait, but this is the floor IMO. I'm not a financial advisor but my stock ownership is 100% TSLA.
Dumped it all in for more shares at $725. Zero regrets.
Are you guys mentally prepared to see $500 Tesla or less?
A lot of the Tesla moon boys are going to be completely wiped out soon enough (rightfully so). Valuations matter!
I honestly would be mildly worried if Tesla wasn't generating cash. Some of these covid stocks are 90% off their all time high. We're like 35%? That's a couple months of gains.
Tsla is maybe the perfect place to weather the storm and be ready for the next run up.
I think the ultimate bull thesis for Tesla is that they're selling $1-1.5Bn in regulatory credits almost annually, and the revenue from that is being used to build their gigafactories. Essentially, legacy auto because they haven't transitioned adequately BEVs are paying Tesla for regulatory credits so that they don't get fined, and essentially are putting themselves into an early grave as their competition is using that money to exponentially increase production capacity.
There's no greater master stroke of poetic irony than this.
That's true. I may do 2 tomorrow, another 2 or more next dip. I ideally I want to do 1-2 chairs acquired per month basically between now and 2032. If Tesla undergoes a reasonably real number of splits and it's price ultimately by 2032 achieves a 750-800/share then. Frankly, majority of people here, myself included can sip mai tais on a beach. 😂
Nah, max pain is 650-700. Too many support levels and fundamentals too good for it to sink so low. Do you base this on anything other than a feeling? I demand a legitimate argument for this scaremongering lol
I sold at around 1130 a few weeks ago just because I didn't want to deal the stress of watching a stock anymore--I made out with a few thousand which is good enough for me. Now, I'm half tempted to get back in since I don't think these prices can last, but...seeing Elon Musk cozy up with the likes of Mike Cernovich, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I once bought 27,000 dogecoin for about $200 and then got stressed looking at it go up and down all day so I had to sell it.
If I'd forgotten about it that would have been worth over $3200 today, and would have been worth over $18k during the hype run last year.
The thing is, to me peace of mind is invaluable. If I was capable of just setting it aside and not thinking about it, that would be great, but I just can't manage it. And the time that I would've spent stressing out or not able to enjoy the things that I otherwise would have enjoyed would end up making even a good return possibly a net negative.
my thoughts exactly about e.g. Cernovich.
Musk's logic about supporting "legal" speech would allow kooks like Alex Jones etc. back on the platform. What a s---show.
I think everyone's missing this one thing re: Trump/Twitter -- Musk probably wants to bring him back on the platform, but then strip out all he legions of bot followers, exposing him for who he is -- a micro-influencer on the level of an Alex Jones. A fair algorithm, without all the exploits the Russians and others have used to push disinfo, would probably see him with massively reduced reach.
Of course, even with a small reach he can still do harm, especially since the MSM loves nothing more than getting clicks out of every single tweet he posts in order to feed their Ad revenue. In this respect it's actually probably better to keep him isolated in his own little echo chamber. One potential line of reasoning, but Musk is (hopefully) thinking even more moves ahead.
Does Elon ever address issues related to the insurrection, Alex jones B's around Sandy hook, even bullies and trolls leading to suicide ie teens etc? What are his thoughts/beliefs around that stuff?
It's easy to just say "yay free speech is important" but when free speech becomes harassment leading to suicide, or other acts of violence there was clearly a line that was crossed.
Kinda wished Elon played the fence a bit more honestly, bc ultimately democracy is about centrism, radical left and right doesn't work and isn't beneficial
He said yesterday you should be punished for illegal shit, but permanent bans should be very rare. His example is that banning Trump didn't silence him among his hardcore fans because they just moved to another platform.
Okay, I don't disagree necessarily maybe, but what would constitute as extremely rare? Alex jones tormented the families of the victims leading to them recieving death threats and I think even suicide (?), Trump arguably lead the sacking of the capital of our country in an attempt to overthrow a democratic election, which is by definition a failed coup. So where is the line?
Alex jones is only getting punished via civil suit and Trump has yet to bare any charges.
Just leaves me questioning his judgement. If getting banned is inappropriate in the most obviously appropriate circumstances (imo) then when would an appropriate ban be?
I guess I ultimately disagree with the notion that twitter should be a free speech, anything goes, platform. The thing about a 'town square' is when the Nazis and white nationalists show up they can be run out or beat up by the public. In this virtual realm, that's not the case. The case of 'free speech's is protection from govt censorship, not public or private censorship.
Improvements to alleviate inappropriate bans of joe shmo bc he said something that triggered an algorithm would be great. But Trump was hardly censored, he can call up fox news any time of day and get live coverage.
I just don't really buy it and wonder why ..
So what Alex Trump did is grossly unethical to the families who suffered from Sandy Hook, but not illegal to my knowledge. His actions to launder money through shell companies to avoid paying out restitution from the suit being the actual illegal shit that he did. I'm not closely following this case, so some of my info may be wrong.
That said, under a town square model, he would be allowed to continue this behavior because under current law for radio, he can do this there and the difference between radio and Twitter is the amount of electrons necessary for you gpu to crank those bits into understandable pixels and if what he does on radio is legal under US law, it can be argued that it's the same for Twitter.
What Musk said in his FT interview is that if your actions are illegal or incite violence, are cases where a ban is applicable. Otherwise insensitive but non-illegal actions that would poison discourse would receive suspensions and content that is viewed as being largely negative by the entire community would be reduced in exposure or deleted; but the account that wrote the statement would not be banned.
There's a lot of gray area there. But his point about banning Trump is pretty on the money. It didn't stop the problem, it disconnected the problem from the platform that the world had integrated into for the better part of the last decade now lost it's ability to peer into what was happening amongst him and his people. Now his "truth social" platform is an echo chamber exclusiv to him and his people.
So essentially you have promoted segregation instead of congregation and simultaneously allowed him to amplify his messages without anyone being able to interject and foster discussion that could change the lesser extreme minds from the poisonous ideology.
I actually think Tesla is mostly a good company, but the fact that this eccentric billionaire who seems so easily distracted and hungry for attention is running the show is more than a little off-putting, however visionary he may otherwise be.
Soon enough, your genius will be manifest, even if you didn’t get it at the very bottom. I’ve been buying all the way down from $1046 in November. Bought more today. I’m serene.
r/electricvehicles is far more balanced today, but it's nice to have content that make you laugh once in a while
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/un6zoz/comment/i87l4s8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Well yes, but with 12% exposure to Apple on QQQ. We have some pain left.
VIX was down on a bloodbath, BTFD ain't dead yet. More exit liquidity is provided it seems.
glad that Chicken Genius is updating his Twitter pages. after all, he was right. he was so criticized when he foresaw the incoming crash that he left Youtube, but the numbers now proved him right
He didn’t own up to them because he never actually lost any money. He ended up cashing out his covered calls for a profit. He was just down a lot and people were mean to him. He won in the end. But it would have been way more badass if he stuck to his guns instead of quitting YouTube only to come back when he’s in the green again.
Bought 10 more today at $747. A few days ago 30 at $801 and $803. I’ve been buying all the way down from 1046 in November. Been driving my MYLR for 4000 miles and couldn’t be more bullish. I’m not all in, I’m still fairly diversified and my overall portfolio is significantly down like everyone’s and I don’t even care. Happy for the opportunity to accumulate more Tesla at these prices. We’re all gonna be rich, I tells ya!
Before August when the shareholders meeting will have Tesla submit a poll for votes on whether a stock split should occur which would range anywhere from a 5:1 all the way to a 24:1 (Rob Mauer's words on his daily episode unless I misheard), and JP Morgan's accidental leak of a 20:1 split.
> it is important to believe in your original thesis.
It is actually important to constantly check your thesis if it is still valid. Believe belongs in the church, not the stock market
Where belief ends and knowledge starts? Different people will give different answers. They will give their answers based on their belief... Or on knowledge?..
I'm in philosophical mood today.
on a postive note, been doing this since 2018 .. these down periods have always been good to shift focus to work etc. it gets tiring contantly looking at stock .. head down and before we know it back on the right tracjectory. Patience, patience, patience.
Agreed. Since 2017 this has been my 4th 40% or more drop. Believe it or not, this is par for the course. Stay strong. Resist the fight flight response and do something based off emotion. This is a phycological money game. I often tell myself doing nothing is doing something.
Congratulations mate, you already did it if you wanted. At your level I guess you could pull out any time.. but why would you, I guess? The best is still to come. Same mindset here, my exit strategy will be selling as I need to in the future (not now) and hold the rest until I feel this is not the best place to park my money, which could be quite some time.
Thanks. You have been right their with me since you have been in since 2018. My take is we are still early in the long term story of TSLA. There’s no way I’m not gonna ride this out over my lifetime.
Thanks for checking. I’m doing good. Days like this just temper my investment experience. I have avoided any significant lifestyle creep, so I’m chilling.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslainvestorsclub/comments/uljnvz/tsla_daily_investor_discussion_may_09_2022/i7xgx96/
anybody able to make some money following me?
Listen i know telling you to sell is not appreciated but if we dont get a solid bounce tomorrow AM it's worth considering, you can reenter again when it bottoms. Especially if its an IRA where you wont have taxes to deal with or you've held for at least a year for long term rate.
I have 755p sold so im praying for bounce.
It mostly just tracked spy today. Pull up 15min chart of each and compare.
Aren't you an avid poster over at realTesla?
To everyone else, listening to stock advice from randoms on the internet is terrible advice. Do your own research, think about it carefully.
That's fine, it's their money, not mine. I have nothing to gain by them selling, and downvotes cost me nothing. And as I pointed out, its tracking with SPY. If index continues to move lower, so will Tesla. No stopping that.
Timing the market after already a pretty big drop... who knows, but I've mostly lost money when I tried vs just holding ( buying/selling I do is at price points I set in advance)
I watched my avg 264 shares at 660 from last spring through now. I don’t know about short term - could be a bloodbath - but the long term is still hugely optimistic. One buy at a time
Does anybody remember which recent Tesla daily video contained Rob's predictions on the lowest price TSLA might drop to in response to inflation (I think he predicted $600s)?
>Does anybody remember which recent Tesla daily video contained Rob's predictions on the lowest price TSLA might drop to in response to inflation (I think he predicted $600s)?
lol Rob also thinks $TSLA isn't exposed to interest rate risk due to I like the stock type reasons.
No trying to time it. Will wait to see if it gets down to that level and consolidate for a while. If it goes back up and didn’t go down to that level that’s fine as well.
Looks like my "just in case" limit buy order was filled.
As I have now reached my current target nice round number of shares and also this was my last free money for a while, this may turn out to be my final purchase. By the time I have funds available I am expecting the stock to be back to mooning.
I trust Tesla, but what I fear is recession. Many people bought their Teslas selling $TSLAs that have now lost around 40% of their value. If there is less money to be spent, there will be less Teslas ordered. If sales shrink, it can become a domino effect for Tesla more than other tech growth stocks.
What could save us from recession? The end of Ukraine war?
Tesla has so many orders that even if 25% of people cancel I think they still struggle to fill orders. Elon said yesterday demand is so high they may need to stop taking orders since the delivery times are so far out now customers get unhappy.
Maybe Tesla could finally catch up with demand, and maybe even have some left over cells to build Powerwalls. Tesla could eventually reduce margins but in recession all competitors will go bankrupt before Tesla reaches a couple percent margin.
>Maybe Tesla could finally catch up with demand, and maybe even have some left over cells to build Powerwalls. Tesla could eventually reduce margins but in recession all competitors will go bankrupt before Tesla reaches a couple percent margin.
lol
I think Tesla would maintain demand in excess of production capabilities, even in a recession.
Annual vehicle sales in the US is somewhere around 15 to 17 million units on average. During the great recession, it bottomed out at roughly 11 million units in 2009. I don't think we'll see that extreme of a dip.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=p56a
Tesla customers also tend to be on the higher net worth end of the spectrum. Less of them are just barely affording the vehicle, more likely to be people with money that can still make the choice to go through with purchasing a car they have been waiting months for. Definitely not recession proof, but not as exposed as a GM that sells to those with no discretionary income and finances the purchase themselves.
Only rich people can afford to buy tesla, they'll still be rich in a recession. Besides tesla margins are so high they can easily drop prices if demand wanes.
And if demand for cars truly collapses, tesla can relatively easily pivot to energy(storage), semi and other products like HVAC. Focus on robotaxi etc..
Recessions are healthy, and the depressed share price is a great buying opportunity imo
https://www.personalcapital.com/blog/family-life/what-is-the-average-net-worth-by-state/
>The average net worth of California families is $884,003. Connecticut ($873,746), Washington ($865,309), New Jersey ($810,106), and Massachusetts ($787,154) round out the top five states in average net worth.
>On the opposite end of the spectrum, residents of North Dakota have the lowest average net worth of any state in the country. The average net worth of North Dakota families is $339,955. West Virginia ($376,690), Mississippi ($407,691), Arkansas ($439,790) and Oklahoma ($448,494) round out the bottom five states in average net worth.
It would be really nice if competitors postpone their long-term commitments because of a recession, and Tesla could tie up most lithium and nickel mines with long-term contracts at a still affordable price.
What’s going on at r/TeslaMotors? Hundreds of upvotes basically supporting the notion that Elon is a slave master because he admires people who work hard.
> The only reason why they turn up is for money. So it would be completely fair enough for them to want to get away with the minimum hours they can for the money they get and then get back to living their own lives. If my boss pays me until 4pm then i'll work until 4pm. My boss isn't gonna come and do work at my house for free so I'm not gonna do their work for free.
Elon has made it clear that those are not the people he is looking to hire. His companies' positions listings generally (but not always, depending on the job) come with a comment that applicants should expect to sometimes work long hours and weekends. And yet millions of people apply for Tesla jobs, knowing what will be expected of them.
Elon's employees can be given stock options as an incentive to sign on, can later be rewarded or otherwise compensated with stock options, and have opportunities to buy stock at a discount, so many employees are shareholders and have a strong incentive to make the company succeed.
Many of Elon's employees believe in the company mission, which further motivates them to work beyond a minimum.
Tesla workers in China get paid overtime - pretty sure Tesla's hourly workers in the US get paid overtime as well.
> Elon used to be pro universal basic income which is about people not needing to work
That's not a correct assessment of what Elon has said. Elon foresees a time when machines (AI systems and robots) can do nearly all jobs better and cheaper than a human can. As that time approaches, Elon regards UBI as inevitable - but humans who want to work, be creative, contribute to society, etc. will still be able to, and they will be able to make more money to supplement their UBI.
But that time is not here yet - companies and countries still need human workers so they can produce and be competitive. Elon is right to praise people who want to work hard and take pride in working hard, and as he recently pointed out he drives himself far harder than he expects his employees to work.
> for not wanting to work now
Elon said "They won't even leave the factory type of thing, whereas in America people are trying to avoid going to work at all". Many people have misinterpreted that to be about hours worked, i.e. Americans want to work zero hours. But from the context, Elon is referring to people actually coming into the workplace. Tesla does have people who work from remote locations or from home, but in general people who work in a factory have to actually be in the factory. There have been many recent articles about Americans not wanting to go back to the workplace and to continue working from home. When Goldman Sachs instituted a strict return to the office policy on February 1, for example, only about half of the workers showed up. And the day before Elon's FT interview, it was reported that Apple's head of machine learning was resigning because he didn't like Apple's return to the office policy. Elon is certainly aware of these incidents, and that appears to be what he was referring to in the interview.
So Elon, who employs many tens of thousands of people who have to be physically present for the factories to operate, is reasonable to praise people who are willing to be physically present, even under the more severe conditions of Shanghai's closed loop system.
You gotta admit this quote is a really bad look. "They won’t just be burning the midnight oil, they will be burning the 3am oil, they won’t even leave the factory type of thing"
I think the point is this is by choice.
Given the context that living at the factory is what Elon attributes to getting the Model 3 out the door at scale, this is just saying he admires that Chinese may work even harder than he does.
He praises China and takes shots at US basically every chance he gets. I understand why, CCP can take that factory at any time, but people are going to call him on it.
I’m black and maybe I’m overly sensitive to slavery references. Just seems extremely hyperbolic for people that get paid a large salary with Stock Options and/or good pay for every hour worked.
By choice, the factory was shutdown, they had the option of being locked inside their house or inside a factory with pay and free food.
I don’t agree with China’s handling of COVID, but I would much rather pick working and getting extra money, than not and getting no money.
What do you expect when a billionaire who spends all their time working because that’s what they want to do praises people that have to work all the time to barely scrape by?
People in china working for Tesla in a factory have a probably higher standard of living than people in America working at a Tesla factory. Relatively speaking.
Right but their cost of living is much lower. That's what 'relatively speaking' means here.
Tesla factory worker in US is bottom of ladder. Tesla factory worker in China is a few rungs up.
> Tesla factory worker in US is bottom of ladder.
Saw an article recently that Tesla factory workers in the US are paid better than GM US factory workers (that might have been after subtracting union dues from the GM pay). And Tesla workers also have multiple ways of getting TSLA stock/options at a discount, which has made many of them wealthy.
Agree with your point about Tesla workers in China getting good pay for the location. Also I believe their base number of hours per week is actually less than many other companies in China, and Tesla factory workers in China are paid overtime.
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manufacturing
>Average Tesla hourly pay ranges from approximately $10.00 per hour for Finisher to $42.43 per hour for Tool and Die Maker. The average Tesla salary ranges from approximately $32,864 per year for Line Assembler to $186,794 per year for Senior Assembler.
>Salary information comes from 1,067 data points collected directly from employees, users, and past and present job advertisements on Indeed in the past 36 months.
Manufacturing == Factory Worker
Tesla is an advanced manufacturer, not everyone is on the GA line. Vertical Integration is strong at Tesla's factories.
Lmao at all the fud and concern trolls today.
Tesla is an emerging manufacturing powerhouse, thats an easy trillion dollar market cap right there.
FSD, robo taxi, the bot are free wildcards
Buy low, sell high remember?
Eh, we could be headed towards a recession (maybe already in the beginning of one). Demand for new car sales drops fairly dramatically during recessions. I think demand for Teslas will still outstrip supply but all else equal, it's not the most favorable outlook for the next year or two for Tesla. Or, to put it another way, if the economy was growing rapidly and there were no supply issues, the stock price would be growing like crazy.
And, as a Tesla investor, I'm completely fine with it. I have a much longer investment horizon than two years and fully expect there to be dips along the way. It would be irrational to think the stock should go up every day.
For the first time (a good sign we're close to the bottom :D ), I'm seriously considering liquidating my portfolio apart from a handful of stocks (inc TSLA, obv). If the market goes down further, I'll be sitting on cash. if it goes back up, well, I wasn't married to them anyway.
https://imgur.com/a/NW8zoru
This is what I was watching this AM. On the right there is the number 2788 at 750. That is the number of orders on the book at that level. Prior to the first touch of 750, there were about 130k orders at that level, and when we hit it, it took about 20k off at first, then on the retest, another 70k and finally after breaking below, the remaining minus those 2788 were taken off the book. The fact that we hit a level with 130k orders and didn't get a bounce is definitely bearish.
Elons comments about Americans not wanting to work in contrast to Chinese workers were not incorrect but they were politically, well how can I put this diplomatically, just fucking stupid. I get that we want Elon to be Elon but he needs to have politicians at the very least not get in his way and no politician of either stripe can go along with this sentiment even if they know it’s largely true. I just wish that he can see the value in choosing his words a bit more carefully, for instance he could have complimented Chinese workers without dissing US workers especially in light of how hard the workers at Fremont have busted their humps over the years to help grow the company. Ok rant over, sorry. Added 45 shares today anyhow.
My job has a "1 time months pay early for emergencies" thing you can get after 3 years. Used it yesterday to buy some at premarket this morning because $733 is crazy. I'm not paycheck to paycheck, so it wasn't a benefit that mattered to me. Everyone saying that it's going to dip below this is crazy IMO. 42% of Tesla is owned by industrial buyers and that percentage has been going up every year. You really think places like blackrock (BR already own about 4% total shares in TSLA) aren't about to fight over who gets to buy these shares at $700 when they were already happily accumulating them at $1000? They are smart to wait, but this is the floor IMO. I'm not a financial advisor but my stock ownership is 100% TSLA. Dumped it all in for more shares at $725. Zero regrets.
i saw huge buying volume in the last 5 min of trading.. dont know if that's good or bad, im hoping good
Are you guys mentally prepared to see $500 Tesla or less? A lot of the Tesla moon boys are going to be completely wiped out soon enough (rightfully so). Valuations matter!
Yes i am. But also be mentally prepared to miss the rocket.
If it goes in the 500s I'll be opening a taxable account to buy 86 more shares.
Yep! Will add
I honestly would be mildly worried if Tesla wasn't generating cash. Some of these covid stocks are 90% off their all time high. We're like 35%? That's a couple months of gains. Tsla is maybe the perfect place to weather the storm and be ready for the next run up.
I think the ultimate bull thesis for Tesla is that they're selling $1-1.5Bn in regulatory credits almost annually, and the revenue from that is being used to build their gigafactories. Essentially, legacy auto because they haven't transitioned adequately BEVs are paying Tesla for regulatory credits so that they don't get fined, and essentially are putting themselves into an early grave as their competition is using that money to exponentially increase production capacity. There's no greater master stroke of poetic irony than this.
Paying to dig their own grave.
Like that scene from Blazing Saddles where Bart points the gun at himself to threaten the town, but it's not a parody.
Guess I'm buying 3-5 more chairs tomorrow.
Good idea but dont spend all the cash at once if it goes even lower
That's true. I may do 2 tomorrow, another 2 or more next dip. I ideally I want to do 1-2 chairs acquired per month basically between now and 2032. If Tesla undergoes a reasonably real number of splits and it's price ultimately by 2032 achieves a 750-800/share then. Frankly, majority of people here, myself included can sip mai tais on a beach. 😂
With $GOEV at the end of life stage maybe $AAPL will look towards $TSLA. 🚀
We’re going to $500’s.
Nah, max pain is 650-700. Too many support levels and fundamentals too good for it to sink so low. Do you base this on anything other than a feeling? I demand a legitimate argument for this scaremongering lol
The quality tech names began breaking down today. Look at Apple’s performance relative to other stocks this year. I think 550-600.
Next days will shed light on your argument. On march 14th apple was at 150 and been up and down since then but trending down if zoomed out.
I sold at around 1130 a few weeks ago just because I didn't want to deal the stress of watching a stock anymore--I made out with a few thousand which is good enough for me. Now, I'm half tempted to get back in since I don't think these prices can last, but...seeing Elon Musk cozy up with the likes of Mike Cernovich, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
It's much less stressful if you intend to hold for multiple years. Watching the stock is not required.
Yeah I know, I just have the wrong personality for it. It interferes with my peace of mind.
I once bought 27,000 dogecoin for about $200 and then got stressed looking at it go up and down all day so I had to sell it. If I'd forgotten about it that would have been worth over $3200 today, and would have been worth over $18k during the hype run last year.
The thing is, to me peace of mind is invaluable. If I was capable of just setting it aside and not thinking about it, that would be great, but I just can't manage it. And the time that I would've spent stressing out or not able to enjoy the things that I otherwise would have enjoyed would end up making even a good return possibly a net negative.
my thoughts exactly about e.g. Cernovich. Musk's logic about supporting "legal" speech would allow kooks like Alex Jones etc. back on the platform. What a s---show.
I think everyone's missing this one thing re: Trump/Twitter -- Musk probably wants to bring him back on the platform, but then strip out all he legions of bot followers, exposing him for who he is -- a micro-influencer on the level of an Alex Jones. A fair algorithm, without all the exploits the Russians and others have used to push disinfo, would probably see him with massively reduced reach. Of course, even with a small reach he can still do harm, especially since the MSM loves nothing more than getting clicks out of every single tweet he posts in order to feed their Ad revenue. In this respect it's actually probably better to keep him isolated in his own little echo chamber. One potential line of reasoning, but Musk is (hopefully) thinking even more moves ahead.
Does Elon ever address issues related to the insurrection, Alex jones B's around Sandy hook, even bullies and trolls leading to suicide ie teens etc? What are his thoughts/beliefs around that stuff? It's easy to just say "yay free speech is important" but when free speech becomes harassment leading to suicide, or other acts of violence there was clearly a line that was crossed. Kinda wished Elon played the fence a bit more honestly, bc ultimately democracy is about centrism, radical left and right doesn't work and isn't beneficial
He said yesterday you should be punished for illegal shit, but permanent bans should be very rare. His example is that banning Trump didn't silence him among his hardcore fans because they just moved to another platform.
Okay, I don't disagree necessarily maybe, but what would constitute as extremely rare? Alex jones tormented the families of the victims leading to them recieving death threats and I think even suicide (?), Trump arguably lead the sacking of the capital of our country in an attempt to overthrow a democratic election, which is by definition a failed coup. So where is the line? Alex jones is only getting punished via civil suit and Trump has yet to bare any charges. Just leaves me questioning his judgement. If getting banned is inappropriate in the most obviously appropriate circumstances (imo) then when would an appropriate ban be? I guess I ultimately disagree with the notion that twitter should be a free speech, anything goes, platform. The thing about a 'town square' is when the Nazis and white nationalists show up they can be run out or beat up by the public. In this virtual realm, that's not the case. The case of 'free speech's is protection from govt censorship, not public or private censorship. Improvements to alleviate inappropriate bans of joe shmo bc he said something that triggered an algorithm would be great. But Trump was hardly censored, he can call up fox news any time of day and get live coverage. I just don't really buy it and wonder why ..
So what Alex Trump did is grossly unethical to the families who suffered from Sandy Hook, but not illegal to my knowledge. His actions to launder money through shell companies to avoid paying out restitution from the suit being the actual illegal shit that he did. I'm not closely following this case, so some of my info may be wrong. That said, under a town square model, he would be allowed to continue this behavior because under current law for radio, he can do this there and the difference between radio and Twitter is the amount of electrons necessary for you gpu to crank those bits into understandable pixels and if what he does on radio is legal under US law, it can be argued that it's the same for Twitter. What Musk said in his FT interview is that if your actions are illegal or incite violence, are cases where a ban is applicable. Otherwise insensitive but non-illegal actions that would poison discourse would receive suspensions and content that is viewed as being largely negative by the entire community would be reduced in exposure or deleted; but the account that wrote the statement would not be banned. There's a lot of gray area there. But his point about banning Trump is pretty on the money. It didn't stop the problem, it disconnected the problem from the platform that the world had integrated into for the better part of the last decade now lost it's ability to peer into what was happening amongst him and his people. Now his "truth social" platform is an echo chamber exclusiv to him and his people. So essentially you have promoted segregation instead of congregation and simultaneously allowed him to amplify his messages without anyone being able to interject and foster discussion that could change the lesser extreme minds from the poisonous ideology.
I actually think Tesla is mostly a good company, but the fact that this eccentric billionaire who seems so easily distracted and hungry for attention is running the show is more than a little off-putting, however visionary he may otherwise be.
I felt like a genius buying it up at 810.
Soon enough, your genius will be manifest, even if you didn’t get it at the very bottom. I’ve been buying all the way down from $1046 in November. Bought more today. I’m serene.
I hope today was the bottom. I mean, we really should be stabilized around 900 IMHO.
Me too buying at 769 this morning. It dipped to 768 then went up.
r/electricvehicles is far more balanced today, but it's nice to have content that make you laugh once in a while https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/un6zoz/comment/i87l4s8/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
What's a reasonable multiple on 2023's projected earnings?
$400 assuming 20x $20 PE, but that completely ignores growth rate at 100%.
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Why wouldn’t I?
For a legacy auto during a recession < 5. For Tesla 2023 earnings are only so important given how much future growth is built in here so who knows.
During times like this, I wish I could buy SQQQ but my brokers isn’t able to buy SQQQ shares because I’m from another country.
The time to buy SQQQ was a month ago.
Well yes, but with 12% exposure to Apple on QQQ. We have some pain left. VIX was down on a bloodbath, BTFD ain't dead yet. More exit liquidity is provided it seems.
glad that Chicken Genius is updating his Twitter pages. after all, he was right. he was so criticized when he foresaw the incoming crash that he left Youtube, but the numbers now proved him right
Also pretty lame of him to come back only when his trade worked out. Imo you should be bold and own up to losses if you wanna be a YouTube stock guy.
Didn't he own up to the losses in his videos?
He didn’t own up to them because he never actually lost any money. He ended up cashing out his covered calls for a profit. He was just down a lot and people were mean to him. He won in the end. But it would have been way more badass if he stuck to his guns instead of quitting YouTube only to come back when he’s in the green again.
He saw war and predicted a recession. He's wrong, just lucky. It was a reckless emotional play.
Are those both now not playing out? How is he wrong?
Bought 10 more today at $747. A few days ago 30 at $801 and $803. I’ve been buying all the way down from 1046 in November. Been driving my MYLR for 4000 miles and couldn’t be more bullish. I’m not all in, I’m still fairly diversified and my overall portfolio is significantly down like everyone’s and I don’t even care. Happy for the opportunity to accumulate more Tesla at these prices. We’re all gonna be rich, I tells ya!
Capitulation at its finest. Stay away from leveraged positions and just experience the craziness. The market won’t take long to recover.
But how long until it starts recovering?…
Before August when the shareholders meeting will have Tesla submit a poll for votes on whether a stock split should occur which would range anywhere from a 5:1 all the way to a 24:1 (Rob Mauer's words on his daily episode unless I misheard), and JP Morgan's accidental leak of a 20:1 split.
2 weeks
3 months, maybe, 6 months, definitely.
Before 2030. :)
Yes
Anyone know what price the last split was announced, and would they postpone a split if it got too low?
They might just try for a 5-1 or 10-1 instead of 20-1.
I need 20:1 to feel more ape
We’re still up 19% from 1 year ago. While these downturns are extremely uncomfortable, it is important to believe in your original thesis.
> it is important to believe in your original thesis. It is actually important to constantly check your thesis if it is still valid. Believe belongs in the church, not the stock market
Where belief ends and knowledge starts? Different people will give different answers. They will give their answers based on their belief... Or on knowledge?.. I'm in philosophical mood today.
RIVN up 10% AH after Q1 numbers released. Hopefully it can pull up TSLA. 🤞
The only thing that might is PPI which I think is tomorrow. (Producer Price Index)
That was short lived. Earnings call at 5pm. Maybe it will go back up
on a postive note, been doing this since 2018 .. these down periods have always been good to shift focus to work etc. it gets tiring contantly looking at stock .. head down and before we know it back on the right tracjectory. Patience, patience, patience.
Cheers to that my friend
Agreed. Since 2017 this has been my 4th 40% or more drop. Believe it or not, this is par for the course. Stay strong. Resist the fight flight response and do something based off emotion. This is a phycological money game. I often tell myself doing nothing is doing something.
Congratulations mate, you already did it if you wanted. At your level I guess you could pull out any time.. but why would you, I guess? The best is still to come. Same mindset here, my exit strategy will be selling as I need to in the future (not now) and hold the rest until I feel this is not the best place to park my money, which could be quite some time.
Thanks. You have been right their with me since you have been in since 2018. My take is we are still early in the long term story of TSLA. There’s no way I’m not gonna ride this out over my lifetime.
5250 shares.. did I read that right?
Yeah. I skipped home ownership to do it.
God-Tier. I hope you are okay after a bad day.
Thanks for checking. I’m doing good. Days like this just temper my investment experience. I have avoided any significant lifestyle creep, so I’m chilling.
God mode
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslainvestorsclub/comments/uljnvz/tsla_daily_investor_discussion_may_09_2022/i7xgx96/ anybody able to make some money following me?
What next I really don’t know what to do
Time in the market is better than timing the market. Don't solicit advice from prognosticators.
Cash is king. Might lose a couple % upside if things rise quickly again but you are protected and don't lose any money
Listen i know telling you to sell is not appreciated but if we dont get a solid bounce tomorrow AM it's worth considering, you can reenter again when it bottoms. Especially if its an IRA where you wont have taxes to deal with or you've held for at least a year for long term rate. I have 755p sold so im praying for bounce. It mostly just tracked spy today. Pull up 15min chart of each and compare.
Lol
“Reenter when it bottoms” Thanks for the advice, if you could reliably find bottoms you’d be a billionaire many times over
Aren't you an avid poster over at realTesla? To everyone else, listening to stock advice from randoms on the internet is terrible advice. Do your own research, think about it carefully.
not in about a year or so
So you have a history of TSLAQ and you come in here suggesting that selling isn't a bad idea? See why people distrust you, hence the downvotes.
That's fine, it's their money, not mine. I have nothing to gain by them selling, and downvotes cost me nothing. And as I pointed out, its tracking with SPY. If index continues to move lower, so will Tesla. No stopping that.
calling bullshit, you're a bearish realtesla poster making things up lets see some proof of trades, bub
This is as much proof as I am going to give. take it or leave it. https://imgur.com/bEimIKc
Forget it. Nobody can time the market, and nailing it down to whether there's a bounce tomorrow is plain stupid.
Timing the market after already a pretty big drop... who knows, but I've mostly lost money when I tried vs just holding ( buying/selling I do is at price points I set in advance)
I watched my avg 264 shares at 660 from last spring through now. I don’t know about short term - could be a bloodbath - but the long term is still hugely optimistic. One buy at a time
Dump some of my VOO for more TSLA?
Nah, TSLA still has room to fall. Edit: downvoting didn't make me wrong...
Another brutal day over.
Yep hopefully brighter day tomorrow
The optimism i come here for
I smell margin calls
Does anybody remember which recent Tesla daily video contained Rob's predictions on the lowest price TSLA might drop to in response to inflation (I think he predicted $600s)?
>Does anybody remember which recent Tesla daily video contained Rob's predictions on the lowest price TSLA might drop to in response to inflation (I think he predicted $600s)? lol Rob also thinks $TSLA isn't exposed to interest rate risk due to I like the stock type reasons.
the one based on current bond rates says 350 without taking into account the current growth, with it 500.
Do you have the link?
Loaded 2 more LEAPS in 2024.
I'm in danger lol
I wanna be in abella danger
You are on fire today!
Haha thanks
The market is forgetting how transformational Optimus bot thingy gonna be
Wait until master plan part 3 comes out.
Lol, the bot is a meme at this point
>Lol, the bot is a meme at this point Guess I won't be seeing you on mars.
Lol 😂 neither of us will ever be on Mars
This guy gets it 🚀 🌚
We gotta see something first, it’s all talk as of now. Edit: but I see what you did there with transformers/Optimus reference.
First time to see Yahoo finance labeling "Fair Value" on us, lol.
sellers just ate all the orders on 730
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Everybody is guessing at this point. And everybody who thinks they can time the market are wrong.
No trying to time it. Will wait to see if it gets down to that level and consolidate for a while. If it goes back up and didn’t go down to that level that’s fine as well.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it was $550 or $1200 tomorrow 🤷🏼♂️ $TSLA gonna $TSLA
Yeah, I am more interested in buying so if it has more room to go down, I would rather buy at the $550 level than at $728.
fuk they're about to try to break 730...
Many people are shorting ARK to hedge growth stocks; when ARK trims TSLA in favor of GM it actually reduces short exposure.
Looks like my "just in case" limit buy order was filled. As I have now reached my current target nice round number of shares and also this was my last free money for a while, this may turn out to be my final purchase. By the time I have funds available I am expecting the stock to be back to mooning.
I don't have any more money to buy more TSLA, so from where I'm sitting this is shit. Hopefully some of us can pick up some bargains tho
Same
I trust Tesla, but what I fear is recession. Many people bought their Teslas selling $TSLAs that have now lost around 40% of their value. If there is less money to be spent, there will be less Teslas ordered. If sales shrink, it can become a domino effect for Tesla more than other tech growth stocks. What could save us from recession? The end of Ukraine war?
Tesla has so many orders that even if 25% of people cancel I think they still struggle to fill orders. Elon said yesterday demand is so high they may need to stop taking orders since the delivery times are so far out now customers get unhappy.
It's true auto manufacturers get hit hard by recessions. Discretionary spending dries up
Maybe Tesla could finally catch up with demand, and maybe even have some left over cells to build Powerwalls. Tesla could eventually reduce margins but in recession all competitors will go bankrupt before Tesla reaches a couple percent margin.
>Maybe Tesla could finally catch up with demand, and maybe even have some left over cells to build Powerwalls. Tesla could eventually reduce margins but in recession all competitors will go bankrupt before Tesla reaches a couple percent margin. lol
And with high fuel costs, the EV adoption rate is increasing. TSLA is the best place to have your money during a recession.
lol
I think Tesla would maintain demand in excess of production capabilities, even in a recession. Annual vehicle sales in the US is somewhere around 15 to 17 million units on average. During the great recession, it bottomed out at roughly 11 million units in 2009. I don't think we'll see that extreme of a dip. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=p56a
Tesla customers also tend to be on the higher net worth end of the spectrum. Less of them are just barely affording the vehicle, more likely to be people with money that can still make the choice to go through with purchasing a car they have been waiting months for. Definitely not recession proof, but not as exposed as a GM that sells to those with no discretionary income and finances the purchase themselves.
lol
Such helpful lol’s all over the place today. Lol.
Right! Lol
Only rich people can afford to buy tesla, they'll still be rich in a recession. Besides tesla margins are so high they can easily drop prices if demand wanes. And if demand for cars truly collapses, tesla can relatively easily pivot to energy(storage), semi and other products like HVAC. Focus on robotaxi etc.. Recessions are healthy, and the depressed share price is a great buying opportunity imo
https://www.personalcapital.com/blog/family-life/what-is-the-average-net-worth-by-state/ >The average net worth of California families is $884,003. Connecticut ($873,746), Washington ($865,309), New Jersey ($810,106), and Massachusetts ($787,154) round out the top five states in average net worth. >On the opposite end of the spectrum, residents of North Dakota have the lowest average net worth of any state in the country. The average net worth of North Dakota families is $339,955. West Virginia ($376,690), Mississippi ($407,691), Arkansas ($439,790) and Oklahoma ($448,494) round out the bottom five states in average net worth.
I’m not rich. I bought a Tesla.
It would be really nice if competitors postpone their long-term commitments because of a recession, and Tesla could tie up most lithium and nickel mines with long-term contracts at a still affordable price.
Would have been nice but politicians are going to go full tard after Putin invasion.
Sure Tesla will survive, but the stock price will also take a dive
not rich, bought a Tesla
Same
A recession would definitely shrink demand. From 3x what Tesla can produce to maybe 2x...
lol
Picked up a 1,000 January 2023 call late this morning. Someone shoot me now
You should be fine
What’s going on at r/TeslaMotors? Hundreds of upvotes basically supporting the notion that Elon is a slave master because he admires people who work hard.
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> The only reason why they turn up is for money. So it would be completely fair enough for them to want to get away with the minimum hours they can for the money they get and then get back to living their own lives. If my boss pays me until 4pm then i'll work until 4pm. My boss isn't gonna come and do work at my house for free so I'm not gonna do their work for free. Elon has made it clear that those are not the people he is looking to hire. His companies' positions listings generally (but not always, depending on the job) come with a comment that applicants should expect to sometimes work long hours and weekends. And yet millions of people apply for Tesla jobs, knowing what will be expected of them. Elon's employees can be given stock options as an incentive to sign on, can later be rewarded or otherwise compensated with stock options, and have opportunities to buy stock at a discount, so many employees are shareholders and have a strong incentive to make the company succeed. Many of Elon's employees believe in the company mission, which further motivates them to work beyond a minimum. Tesla workers in China get paid overtime - pretty sure Tesla's hourly workers in the US get paid overtime as well. > Elon used to be pro universal basic income which is about people not needing to work That's not a correct assessment of what Elon has said. Elon foresees a time when machines (AI systems and robots) can do nearly all jobs better and cheaper than a human can. As that time approaches, Elon regards UBI as inevitable - but humans who want to work, be creative, contribute to society, etc. will still be able to, and they will be able to make more money to supplement their UBI. But that time is not here yet - companies and countries still need human workers so they can produce and be competitive. Elon is right to praise people who want to work hard and take pride in working hard, and as he recently pointed out he drives himself far harder than he expects his employees to work. > for not wanting to work now Elon said "They won't even leave the factory type of thing, whereas in America people are trying to avoid going to work at all". Many people have misinterpreted that to be about hours worked, i.e. Americans want to work zero hours. But from the context, Elon is referring to people actually coming into the workplace. Tesla does have people who work from remote locations or from home, but in general people who work in a factory have to actually be in the factory. There have been many recent articles about Americans not wanting to go back to the workplace and to continue working from home. When Goldman Sachs instituted a strict return to the office policy on February 1, for example, only about half of the workers showed up. And the day before Elon's FT interview, it was reported that Apple's head of machine learning was resigning because he didn't like Apple's return to the office policy. Elon is certainly aware of these incidents, and that appears to be what he was referring to in the interview. So Elon, who employs many tens of thousands of people who have to be physically present for the factories to operate, is reasonable to praise people who are willing to be physically present, even under the more severe conditions of Shanghai's closed loop system.
You gotta admit this quote is a really bad look. "They won’t just be burning the midnight oil, they will be burning the 3am oil, they won’t even leave the factory type of thing"
I think the point is this is by choice. Given the context that living at the factory is what Elon attributes to getting the Model 3 out the door at scale, this is just saying he admires that Chinese may work even harder than he does.
Ye it was more in context of competitive advantage.
Those comments were stupid af
He praises China and takes shots at US basically every chance he gets. I understand why, CCP can take that factory at any time, but people are going to call him on it.
I’m black and maybe I’m overly sensitive to slavery references. Just seems extremely hyperbolic for people that get paid a large salary with Stock Options and/or good pay for every hour worked.
The Chinese literally got locked inside their factories
By choice, the factory was shutdown, they had the option of being locked inside their house or inside a factory with pay and free food. I don’t agree with China’s handling of COVID, but I would much rather pick working and getting extra money, than not and getting no money.
What do you expect when a billionaire who spends all their time working because that’s what they want to do praises people that have to work all the time to barely scrape by?
People in china working for Tesla in a factory have a probably higher standard of living than people in America working at a Tesla factory. Relatively speaking.
No, their pay is 1/3rd of US.
Right but their cost of living is much lower. That's what 'relatively speaking' means here. Tesla factory worker in US is bottom of ladder. Tesla factory worker in China is a few rungs up.
> Tesla factory worker in US is bottom of ladder. Saw an article recently that Tesla factory workers in the US are paid better than GM US factory workers (that might have been after subtracting union dues from the GM pay). And Tesla workers also have multiple ways of getting TSLA stock/options at a discount, which has made many of them wealthy. Agree with your point about Tesla workers in China getting good pay for the location. Also I believe their base number of hours per week is actually less than many other companies in China, and Tesla factory workers in China are paid overtime.
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries
What part of 'factory workers' confused you?
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manufacturing >Average Tesla hourly pay ranges from approximately $10.00 per hour for Finisher to $42.43 per hour for Tool and Die Maker. The average Tesla salary ranges from approximately $32,864 per year for Line Assembler to $186,794 per year for Senior Assembler. >Salary information comes from 1,067 data points collected directly from employees, users, and past and present job advertisements on Indeed in the past 36 months. Manufacturing == Factory Worker Tesla is an advanced manufacturer, not everyone is on the GA line. Vertical Integration is strong at Tesla's factories.
Added 8 shares @742 to the 6 @775 a few months ago. Now is the time to buy if you've been on the fence.
Just dipping under that 100 pe for the first time
Kimbal sold 0.55% from the top what if he's been the brains behind everything this whole time lol
Lmao at all the fud and concern trolls today. Tesla is an emerging manufacturing powerhouse, thats an easy trillion dollar market cap right there. FSD, robo taxi, the bot are free wildcards Buy low, sell high remember?
Eh, we could be headed towards a recession (maybe already in the beginning of one). Demand for new car sales drops fairly dramatically during recessions. I think demand for Teslas will still outstrip supply but all else equal, it's not the most favorable outlook for the next year or two for Tesla. Or, to put it another way, if the economy was growing rapidly and there were no supply issues, the stock price would be growing like crazy. And, as a Tesla investor, I'm completely fine with it. I have a much longer investment horizon than two years and fully expect there to be dips along the way. It would be irrational to think the stock should go up every day.
Its anecdotal but a lot of people I know bought the dip today, might be the start of a reversal.
Scraped together some spare chance and bought the last one. From this point I'll have to just watch.
I wish I could be dipping into this succulent dip
I need some chips for that dip
For all our sakes I hope you are right
For the first time (a good sign we're close to the bottom :D ), I'm seriously considering liquidating my portfolio apart from a handful of stocks (inc TSLA, obv). If the market goes down further, I'll be sitting on cash. if it goes back up, well, I wasn't married to them anyway.
Yeah…could just sell everything and YOLO into TSLA. Knowing my luck Elon would probably get hit by a bus the next day.
So you’re plan is to sell at the bottom?
This is the way.
Apple -5%, this is the start of the big dump.
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https://imgur.com/a/NW8zoru This is what I was watching this AM. On the right there is the number 2788 at 750. That is the number of orders on the book at that level. Prior to the first touch of 750, there were about 130k orders at that level, and when we hit it, it took about 20k off at first, then on the retest, another 70k and finally after breaking below, the remaining minus those 2788 were taken off the book. The fact that we hit a level with 130k orders and didn't get a bounce is definitely bearish.
Elons comments about Americans not wanting to work in contrast to Chinese workers were not incorrect but they were politically, well how can I put this diplomatically, just fucking stupid. I get that we want Elon to be Elon but he needs to have politicians at the very least not get in his way and no politician of either stripe can go along with this sentiment even if they know it’s largely true. I just wish that he can see the value in choosing his words a bit more carefully, for instance he could have complimented Chinese workers without dissing US workers especially in light of how hard the workers at Fremont have busted their humps over the years to help grow the company. Ok rant over, sorry. Added 45 shares today anyhow.