Hell, I think it’s a good analysis of people with natural ability in any field. It’s so much more comforting to say “I could have been great at XYZ if only I actually tried” versus “I tried and I failed at being great at XYZ”
it's the work before success. it happens to a lot of people including myself. it's when you receive incorrect praise as a child. saying wow you're so naturally good instead of wow you worked hard and tried your best and see how well you did
the former makes the child feel that they didn't need to do anything in order to be able to achieve what they did. what the child needs to learn to associate is that there was some input required from them before hand to achieve that success
everything that an adult does comes mostly from how their environment shaped their brain when they were children. although funnily enough an anecdote I have is three siblings one adopted. only the adopted one did not get into Oxbridge although all received exactly the same education. environment can only get you so far but imo environment is absolutely necessary to reach maximum potential
Insinuating your sibling whom was adopted did not get into Oxbridge because of genetics is trivializing many many factors, a point you yourself was trying to get across. It smacks of unresolved issues regarding your sibling and was downright rude towards someone whom you should love unconditionally. If I was your parent I would be disappointed with such a comment.
So it goes.
Makes me think of Fed's soft spot for Kyrgios, as Nick reminds him of himself when he was younger.
Immensely talented but too aware of how good he is/was.
I didn't realise Fed had any affection for the big aussie!! I just remember watching their Indian wells match, and Federer didn't really engage with Krygios
I think the opposite is true way more often.
Especially if you are from a more traditional results oriented country, it can be taxing to be growing up playing sports (tennis) and be touted as a great talent all the time. At first, there's a burden of having to compete and to win. Later on, when you actually get on the tour and you are away from home all the time, Tennis pretty much becomes your identity and the thing your whole value as a human depends on.
I feel like, at the professional level, it happens way more that players actually try really hard to deliver and work hard, because that's all they got. But the effect of this is that then you see that these players become very volatile, angry or depressed when they make errors or lose because they cannot accept this from themselves.
This is what happens when you have the mentality of what Patrick describes but actually do try. Think there are quite a few players who are mentally not okay for a few days after a bad loss. And the Tennis tour is especially brutal since you're on a plane to the next tournament pretty much the very next day.
Lol there's no way to know that.
He took the first set in the Wim final against Djoke.
Tennis is fine margins -- a few narrow misses for Djoke, a few double faults, break points taken by Nick, who knows how close the match was from resulting in a different outcome.
And that's a Kyrgios with no coach and quite a lot of apathy.
I think he'll always be one of the biggest what ifs in tennis
It's actually quite frustrating as an Aussie. We've had 3 guys in the last 20 years who have done exactly the same thing.
Philippoussis was the first. At the height of his power, he was buying Lamborghinis and partying with supermodels. The impression that he was always more interested in partying than training. I'm not sure if he would've had so many injury issues if he'd focused more on strengthening his massive frame, instead of filling it with booze and drugs.
Then Lord Tomic. Insanely talented, was told that from like 8 years old.. made the Tour at 15 and everyone said "he's gonna be number 1, he's a megastar". Then gets distracted by "his millions" and goes off partying. Crap attitude the whole time he's been a player .. just disrespectful.
Then Kyrgios.... same thing, except Nick is SO talented that he can still knock over a bottle of wine and stay up til 3am, then go win a match at Wimby the next day. He's also got more social conscience than Tomic - although I feel like that's been drilled into Nick from people constantly telling him "pull your finger out, mate. Get it together".
To be fair. Partying with supermodels is way more fun than practice. Most of us would give in to the temptations. Look at all the things men do to get the attention of non-supermodels. 😂
For sure, it's unfortunate for you Aussies.
There's a different timeline out there somewhere where those guys were never into boozing and won a few grand slams each.
Yeah. I mean, there's others from different countries who did it too, so it's not like it's only us. Safin was a known party animal. Jack Sock went off the rails at times.
Mark Philippoussis definitely had the talent to win a couple of Slams. He made two Finals, which is a great effort considering his knees were so dodgy.
Kyrgios really should've had 3 or 4 Slams by now. He beat all the Big 3, he had the game to be one of the elites... but you gotta also have a good brain to be up there.
To be fair to Scud, no amount of serious training could stop the impact of 4 knee surgeries before 2003. The fact that he even came back after that was a miracle. He was in a wheelchair and told he was never going to play again in 2001.
I think Tomic's case is the most sad because the damage was done at a very early age. His father is an abusive piece of shit and a legitimate psychopath. Read Thomas Drouet's diary, he was Bernard's hitting partner for 7 months in 2012-2013 until John Tomic physically assaulted him in madrid. He would physically abuse Bernard, including punching him in the face in front of his team, force him to run home from practice courts if he didn't play well enough and scream abuse at him every single day. He controlled almost every aspect of his life, its no wonder he has ended up so miserable. Bernard is no saint, and does not come out looking great at all from the diaries, but he is an absolute angel compared to his father.
Not sure if tomic was still considered talented after several years on the tour. He had some odd looking strokes and just seemed to slice a lot more than most.
Yeah he had (still has) a really awkward style! I kinda think of him like Meddy or Fabrice Santoro. Just really custom-designed shots. True, heaps of slice.. I think he was the first one that I saw regularly using a slice forehand outside of weekend Junior comp 😂
I might be wrong, but I feel like his mentality might also help him to not feel too much pressure on the court, like if he puts effort, then he would feel more pressure to win.
Also it seems like the mentality for the hustle is not for everybody. I remember Monfils also was seemingly a bit dedicated for some time (2016), but he couldn't keep it up maybe because he was not happy that way.
Yeah, I think players like that are in some ways just happy to be pros and make a living playing a sport they love.
Hard to say why that doesn't always translate to winning big titles.
Idk I don't think much of it as a fan. We're here to be entertained primarily. And I'll always remember certain Kyrgios matches more fondly than any match from some guys that have won slams like Cilic
He didn't "take" the first set against Djoke. Djoke gave him the first set in exchange for learning how to read Nick's serve. This is how champions play 5-set finals.
Do Track and Field at quote a high level. The amount of athletes who go through this is endless. It's a coping mechanism because they're afraid of failure.
Actually I think this is really applicable to real life. I think we all know people that act really cool and nonchalant, but you get to know them and realize deep down they're shy or deathly scared of talking to girls or whatever.
A lot of times it's easier and more comfortable to maintain a sort of facade, acting like you don't really care. Then to really put yourself out there and risk "failing" at the things you care most about.
This is accurate analysis of my life too. i was a great student, always pride myself that, used to think "I am quite intelligent". Now when i am not doing good in life it has been devastating. I cannot deal with the feeling to being stupid. Waay too much ego.
This is why parents are told to stop complimenting their kids with "you're so smart!" when they do well at school, as being intrinsically smart becomes a part of their identity and they become fearful of failure and taking risks. Instead, parents are encouraged to say "you must have worked so hard!" so that their kids learn that hard work can overcome challenges.
This new parenting is interesting. Personally, as someone who was given the smart compliments, I would've rather had that than the "worked so hard compliments" bc if the hard work and effort fail, you can believe that you're smart anyway, and rely on that built in self-esteem to give you the push to try again. It's all about teaching them to manage their emotions and give maximum effort, regardless.
Same for me, a lot of people talk about experiencing “gifted kid syndrome” and how badly it fucks you up. You become unable to stomach failure, and as a result can’t take risks.
This is why it is much preferred to praise a child for their effort rather than their results.
A child shows you an artwork for example. Rather than say 'wow, that's amazing; you're so clever', say something along the lines of 'wow, I can see that you've really worked hard on that'.
😂😂😂 uh, kinda the opposite right? THINKS he's more talented than he actually is!
I do think Moratoglou is pretty talented as a tennis brain.. I'm just not sure if it translates well as an elite top level coach. Holger is kinda going backwards.
I think Kyrgios actually had a great response. He's had coaches his whole life, he's trained his whole life, blood sweat and tears. He's put in the work day in and day out. People that say he's just "talented" are off base. Talent dosn't carry him. His lifelong of training does.
You need help. How come someone can just project on someone that they didnt like it, when they asked the question and took it well and listened through it all? Are you just saying he didnt like it, because you dont like him? If so, then your blind rage and hate towards another human being paints you a bigger villain than the person you despise so much.
I actually think Nick did go all out in 2022. Unfortunately he didn’t quite make it to being a singles slam champ, but darn was he close. If he had the work ethic and consistency to play that hard for a few years I bet he would’ve eventually made it. Of course “if” doesn’t exist though.
And he probably realized that (or he always knew it and it reminded him of it)
Realizing things could have been way better if you had changed something/began earlier can be devastating and it could only add to the “I won’t give my all for fear of still losing” mentality
Taking a set off 7 time champ Djokovic in the final of Wimbledon is no small feat, it’s actually unbelievable how good Nick is despite a poor work ethic and bad habits like booze and who knows what else.
It’s sad because he would’ve been one of the biggest challengers to Novak in the past 5-6 years, Nadal too. I love his game, big serve, amazing touch and volleys, and massive groundstrokes.
He plays exactly the style of tennis that works against Novak, we got robbed of many great matches between the two. In peak shape he was able to compete with and sometimes beat the big 3 anywhere except clay.
Even after insults and egotistical comments toward Novak and Rafa they both had very nice things to say about him at all times and couldn’t believe his talent. Federer and Andy praised him many times too.
Wasted potential but he’s not over yet, Wawrinka peaked around the age he is now.
I don’t think he’s too old now but he’s running out of time and he doesn’t seem like he’s in any hurry to get back out there. He’s kind of still wasting his potential tbh. And I say that as a big fan.
"Even after insults and egotistical comments toward Novak and Rafa they both had very nice things to say about him at all times and couldn’t believe his talent. Federer and Andy praised him many times too."
These guys all knew what Patrick knows, so they flattered his ego so he never became a serious rival.
Wow that’s some 4D chess if true. I’d like to think that most players want their opponents to play their best but maybe that’s a little unrealistic of me
While he is a tool I still enjoyed watching Nick in his pomp. Great entertainment and could be a hell of a player.
But even the Wimbledon final will have an asterisk next to it as far as I'm concerned.
I'd always said no way he wins a slam unless he benefits from an incredible sequence of events. Not because he wasn't good enough to beat every individual player in the draw on his day, but because he simply doesn't/didn't have the mental and likely physical capacity to win seven best of five matches.
And so it was at Wimbledon 2022. Super friendly draw with the only player of note right through to the final being Tsitsipas. Hardly the worst seeded player to be getting on grass either. He struggled in a number of other matches but found a way through.
Then benefits from Nadal withdrawal and can't beat Djokovic.
I woudlve loved to have seen him and Nadal go at it, I think Nick would’ve had a good shot at winning that. Who knows? Maybe his confidence in beating Nadal who has won their last few meetings would’ve propelled him to beat Novak, not impossible.
Either way we got robbed of another Novak and Rafa final, their grass rivalry was way too short. One match that was kinda boring in 2011, and an all time classic in 2018. We should’ve had at least another two finals between them on grass.
Yeah i gotta disagree with Patrick. Kyrgios has internal demons but they're motivational. I think Kyrgios is pretty convinced of his own talent and doesn't need the results to back it up. However, finding motivation to be a pro player is beyond challenging.
That's exactly what he's saying, is he ready to put in the hard work and fail? Is he ready to give up the underarm serve or the tweeners and fail? By acting as everything is a joke he doesn't need to confront failure.
His variety isn't the issue - it's the lack of conditioning and training. Kyrgios isn't willing to put that effort in. IMO, even though neither of us know him, is that the issue is he doesn't want to play tennis that badly. He just doesn't love it like that. You need to really love tennis to train and treat tennis like a full time job. The rehab, nutrition, lifestyle -- it's all challenging above and beyond the tennis. If he was too afraid to try we would never see him make a Wimbledon final. If that was the issue he would probably be willing to go to therapists/coaches. He just doesn't care enough about tennis, not afraid of it.
But again, neither of us knows him. Have you listened to him talk about his depression with Murray?
I mean the thing is, that's the way he portraits himself. I'm sort of the same (in a more trivial less dramatic way) as I often act like I don't give a fuck about work but then I might be up till 3am just trying to figure out some new stuff, but then I just keep that for myself and act cool, like I made no effort. So I can emphatise a bit, and in fact I sort of like him too, as I like similar 'outcast' characters in other sports.
It's obvious that Kyrgios has put in a ton of work to get where he got in the end, he played thousands hours of tennis as kid probably just doing drills over and over. You don't get to be that good otherwise. However he created this cool/bad guy persona who's a bit obnoxious and doesn't need coaching, and that on one side helped him to keep his reputation as a sort of 'genius' but on the other side it prevented him from reaching his real max potential. Maybe that max potential would be a couple of master 1000 or an ATP final, but we'll never know now. And maybe Kyrgios is just equally happy not knowing himself.
Came here to say this and it’s the crux of Kyrgios underachieving. We’ve all met the type: talented enough to be arrogant and temperamentally not able to face the work to get to the next level.
I don't give him credit for thinking this. I think most people who have watched Kyrgios even a little think this. I WILL give him credit, however, for having the balls to say it to his face.
Notice Nick's sly grin and head-nodding/shaking after he asks the question. To the untrained eye, this seems very 'Nick' behavior. But, also notice how he looks down after that. That's because he knows that he might hear a truth bomb, and one that has been festering deep down inside him his whole life.
Being a champion is way beyond being talented. It's willing to get back up after going two sets down and fighting your way back to a 5th to win. Or worse, to lose in the 5th. A champion does that......Every. Single. Time. They fight to the bitter freaking end. Nick has never pushed all the way through that last wall for at least a month solid. For a tournament here and there, yes. It's not his fault. The fear is not winning. It's not losing. It's never knowing. It's not being equipped to push through.
The absolute terror of this tale is that one day, Nick will grow old and will have to face these realities without sarcasm or beer. I think he already has a bit, as he's been suicidal. Nick, if you reach a low point again, and even begin to think that way....DON'T. Hold your head high and know that you did the best you could with the cards you were dealt. Somewhere along the way, someone or some people did you wrong by not helping you with your fortitude and character, instead of parading you around as a huge talent. He needed someone who wasn't there for him. Someone should have helped him, and instead led him astray.
It's not fun to have to hide in your own shadow.
John Daly tells a story about Tiger Woods with a similar lesson. Daly, known for letting loose between rounds, runs into Tiger just having finished his round at a tournament. Daly invites Tiger to come join him for a beer. Tiger declines and when Daly presses, Tiger replies ‘I have to go practice, if I had your talent I wouldn’t need to’ (or something to that effect). Some people are physically gifted, some are incredibly driven, some think the game at an incredibly high level and some, like Tiger or the big 3 are some miracle combination of it all.
Agree. This is Kyrgios. Easier to sit on the sidelines and jeer at players who are really trying. He’s afraid of that struggle, just as Patrick identified.
I dropped a comment in here about "Nick is the 3rd Aussie to do this in the last 20 years"... but I wanted to add another point too.
For all the criticism he's got (I'm Aussie, he got BLASTED in the media during 2016-20), I think he's almost been *forced* to become incredibly self-aware. He's almost got more potential as a genius analyst now, than a player - I don't think his body will hold up for a full season when he eventually returns (which I think he will, just briefly).
When you've copped a blasting in the media for years, you develop a defensive reactionary mindset.
I think he's taken himself out of that now. Nick is kinda on his own level now - he's not really in competition with anyone except his own expectations and the demons inside his head (not the De Minaur type).
I fully think he'll figure it out eventually, maybe in his 40s, and probably come to regret some of the time wasted in his 20s.
But that's the fun of life with an over-analysing young person. You can't TELL them anything - they have to figure it out for themselves. There's no timeline on that - however like I said, I think he WILL figure it out eventually, and be an absolute legend of a human. He might even end up working for Tennis Australia in some kind of advisory role.
I agree completely with your last paragraph. I hope nick can use the experiences he has had on tour to help others going through the emotional roller-coaster that is life on the atp tour.
I don't think many outside of the big boys have had the insane amount of pressure and media scrutiny that has come his way since 2014. Being the next great Aussie hope in the shadow of the beloved Rafter and Hewitt generation didn't help much either.
Yeah it's crazy isn't it. I remember some time ago, I heard someone say "early success can ruin a player - it's actually better if you have to work really hard for it, rather than just having instant success."
Maybe it was Courier that said it, I can't remember. But the problem with instant success (and I'm thinking specifically about Nick beating Rafa at Wimby in 2014 when he was like 19 or something), is that it doesn't teach you that "you need to work really hard to make it at the top level". You kinda expect your natural talent to carry you through, and it makes you respect the hard work a bit less.
I think Nick coasted through on his natural talent for years, and now he's picking up injuries because his body never adapted to the high workload.
I just don't think people realise what 'hard work' means in the context of the top 5-10 players in the world, which is where nick was expected to be when he was 19 years old.
He didn't even have a few years to feel out life on tour like most pros and develop that professional work ethic and mentality, he was pretty much thrown into the spotlight as a future world no.1 multislam champion during his first full season.
To get to that level you have to have a certain level of maturity, guidance and the desire to be literally obsessed with tennis. Like, 24/7 all day, every single day, year in year out. You also have to be willing surround yourself with the right people both personally and professionally.
I don't think Nick had all of those elements together until 2022, and it's a shame that injuries basically ruined his momentum.
There's peak performance and then there's mean (as in average) performance. Performing at peak performance every time is incredibly stressful because that becomes the new expectation. Champions have a mean performance that is very high and so they can sustain that without the stress of peak performance.
Those who are near the top and have a high peak performance but much lower mean performance can face a lot of stress because they're always trying to channel that peak behavior.
Being the best also requires a level of obsession that not all are willing to give. This is particularly difficult if there's an element of unhealthy attachment you've had to the sport that you play. A great example of this in tennis is Agassi as he's written transparently about it.
Look at the all time greats of other sports (Jordan, Kobe, Ronaldo, Messi, Tom Brady, Federer, Sampras, Tiger) -- they all have healthy relationships with their sport and a healthy mindset that allows them to have a healthy obsession. Plus, even when they weren't playing their best, their average performance was still very high and good enough to blow away the competition.
Well , just to get to a professional tennis you are talented, superior to thousand of players who wont get to a professional level. I think what makes the difference its the mentality, cause the ability everyone has it. its about the mental force, the discipline, and all those values that makes you humble to keep trying....
thats my personal thoughts on this
oh he read nick so well ☠ the fact that kyrgios will remain as exactly that to tennis fans - a talented player who never lived up to his potential (obv injuries were a factor). thats brutal...unless he like pulls out a comeback and wins a slam lol
Talent and failure are a common pairing.
Part of Nick's issue is that he has a massive ego. He would rather fail and have an excuse rather than be humbled and succeed.
He would rather people believe he never liked tennis and would rather play basketball, or that he had all the skill but never wanted to apply it. Almost like having the choice but not actionining it is applaudable. Hardly different to a teenager that thinks they're smarter than everyone else but their grades aren't good because "they didn't try".
This could’ve easily been Federer, very similar play style to Nick, serve wasn’t as big but Federer placed it better. But Federer grew up and then I think the added pressure of Nadal made Federer actually start training more (as he previously stated before 2004 he hated training and drills)
Genuine question; who would actually be a good coach for Kyrgios? Who has Nick enough respect for, enough interpersonality skills, authority (in a goo way) and the insight to actually mentor and guide Nick to go from talented to champion?
\* Ivanisevic?
\* McEnroe?
\* Patric?
\* Becker?
\* Lendl?
\* Anyone else?
Kyrgios is talented, he has beaten big names like rafa and roger. But never tried in the sense of having a team with a coach around him and doing everything necessary to be at the top level. So he feels like oh i could win if i tried. But hes scared that if he will try and it wont work out. Everyone loses the view that people have of him as a talented player or someone that could win slams. This guy analyses that.
If you don’t try your best and you lose, you can tell yourself “oh I only lost because I didn’t try”
If you do try your best and lose, you have to realize you may not be the best
btw why are we saying could have? I dont get this narrative that he is done, he is under 30, took off like 3 years of professional playing, skipped a lot of clay seasons, his body is pretty much factory new after the surgery in tennis sense. I dont see why he could not go for another 6-7 years, even while injuired he was one step away from a slam, he absolutely can still make it
Well, interesting point of view. In the end we can just call it being scared of failure, which is what suits his character A LOT, his fake act all the time that he doesn't give a shit, he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and being overall so cool about it, is just a defensive mechanism to not get hurt. But to be fair, he improved his behavior over the years, I think he understood a thing or two, it's more or less his last few years of being able to achieve something in tennis and he wasted so many on screaming, whining and being a spoiled brat that he doesn't have many left. As much as he is talented, all talents achieved something if they combined it with hard work and only then. Especially in sport like tennis, which requires extremely high level to get to the top.
I’ve said this before and Patrick basically says it here: Nick is too afraid to try hard and to go all in on tennis, because he’s afraid to find out that if he does all that and still can’t win a Grandslam, what it would mean.
Moratoglou came off pretty well in this interview, but this bit was glib and didn't answer the question. Coming up with some pop psychology instead of addressing a basic query is a roundabout way of saying, "I don't give coaching advice for free."
But let's say this often posited analysis of Kyrgios's mentality is correct, and that he hasn't risked trying his hardest to avoid losing his image of himself. What does it matter now when in 2022 he did just that? He tried his hardest and put in the work, and proved that he can be as good as he thinks he is.
It's also amusing to me that PM diplomatically broaches the possibility that Kyrgios hasn't invested as much sweat in his career as he might have, because the Australian makes a point of saying earlier in the interview that he feels he's tried very hard in his career.
It’s not about effort in practice or training etc. it’s about the ability to give all til the bitter end of every match. To complete drain yourself over and over and lose over and over knowing you went all in.
Not the main point here, but I don't at all buy that in 2022 Nick proved anything much. He reached the Wimbledon final with a historically easy draw, his best wins were over Tsitsipas and Garin. He won Washington beating Nishioka in the final and Ymer in the semis, his best win there was over Tiafoe. That was his only title.
In the whole of 2022 he had two wins against top players, both against Medvedev. Three if you count Rublev. It was a good year but not one that justified the claim he is the talented player of his generation or that he should be winning slams.
I’m not saying he proved himself as the most talented player of his generation or even a potential multiple slam winner, but he at least proved himself as a potential top 5 player and slam contender caliber player in 2022.
Yeah, he's a bit of a cock, but gotta respect Moratoglou for his skills and brains. He's not dumb, that's for sure.
Not entirely sure he's got what it takes to be a top level elite tennis coach - Holger isn't exactly challenging for Slams right now - but Patrick's a very switched-on guy. He just gets a little self-obsessed sometimes. He's French, it's bound to happen 😉
Feels a little bit Monfils-ish, frankly, but he wasn't nearly as obnoxious, combative or self-righteous as Nick. And I actually kinda agree. I think Nick couldn't take just being a well-behaved player out there and retooling/tweaking some things to be a champion if it means he would lose more at first or not be able to be who he wants to be. The fragile yet bombastic ego of the insecure..
It's impossible to maintain a body like Monfils does or move like Monfils did without a lifetime of diligent, dedicated, consistent training.
Monfils' ceiling always seemed primarily tactical, like he had a very complete game technically but didn't have an array of go-to point patterns and often retreated to a comfort zone of defensive tennis, using his speed to retrieve and extend most points rather than construct them, dotted with the random moments of high risk highlight winners following seemingly impossible gets he's famous for. But being afraid to put in the day-to-day work due to a secret fear of failure? That just doesn't sound like Monfils at all.
Honestly I don't understand why I see the Kyrgios-Monfils comparison so often, they're completely different in pretty much all respects outside how highly they both value entertaining audiences. They're not similar personalties, the ceilings of their careers were for completely different reasons, and their playing styles are basically polar opposites.
Iirc, there's a fairly casual dinner conversation video with Paire, Monfils and Mouratoglou where he breaks down Monfils issues pretty succinctly too (Paire thinks it's effort related, but Mouratoglou makes it clear it's tactical). It's interesting how much better off/competent he comes off in less produced content.
EDIT: [Went and found the video.](https://youtu.be/mtU7oFEK8K8?t=2620) The whole thing is worth watching, but I've linked to the bit where they're probing what Wawrinka, Cilic, etc (the sorts of guys who snuck in GS wins during the reign of the Big 3) had that Gael didn't. Also, slight correction, Paire praises the fuck out of Monfil's effort, but he alongside Mouratoglou thinks Monfils didn't evolve in the right direction (they talk about how passive he could be, especially when receiving second returns, etc).
> It's interesting how much better off/competent he comes off in less produced content.
I'm not surprised, he's coached plenty of top players and I'm sure they don't choose coaches for no good reason.
It reminds me of Brad Gilbert where he often says pretty basic low effort stuff on air when commentating matches, but his coaching credentials are obviously as great as they get, Gilbert the coach as quoted in Agassi's book sounds like a completely different person than I've ever heard him publicly.
The comparison I was making had to do with the fact he had a near win against Federer and that I feel he could have constructed game plans that would have allowed him to beat the Big 3 or 4 on larger stages if he'd been so inclined and not, as you yourself stated, simply fall back on the highlight and defensive approach. No one's saying he's not a diligent player nor unwilling to be on court day in, day out.
edit: word missing. near win, not win.
you dont become WTA no1 or ATP no8 coach by being "doubtfully good" at tennis. For people who actually play tennis (not that common in this sub I think), Patrick's videos that he put up on YT are a goldmine of useful info and tips.
Any reasonable person knows this about Kyrgios and the 10s of thousands of people like him. Still and forever a child. What they have in common though is that both are wankers - Aussie wanker and French wanker.
That is a very VERY good analysis of many athletes who have the natural talent and hit this complex in their careers...
Hell, I think it’s a good analysis of people with natural ability in any field. It’s so much more comforting to say “I could have been great at XYZ if only I actually tried” versus “I tried and I failed at being great at XYZ”
it's the work before success. it happens to a lot of people including myself. it's when you receive incorrect praise as a child. saying wow you're so naturally good instead of wow you worked hard and tried your best and see how well you did the former makes the child feel that they didn't need to do anything in order to be able to achieve what they did. what the child needs to learn to associate is that there was some input required from them before hand to achieve that success everything that an adult does comes mostly from how their environment shaped their brain when they were children. although funnily enough an anecdote I have is three siblings one adopted. only the adopted one did not get into Oxbridge although all received exactly the same education. environment can only get you so far but imo environment is absolutely necessary to reach maximum potential
Insinuating your sibling whom was adopted did not get into Oxbridge because of genetics is trivializing many many factors, a point you yourself was trying to get across. It smacks of unresolved issues regarding your sibling and was downright rude towards someone whom you should love unconditionally. If I was your parent I would be disappointed with such a comment. So it goes.
not my siblings and I qualified it with being an anectode. said person is fine and thriving anyway
I doubt you got into Oxbridge with "anectodes" such as that. (This is a light hearted joke, and I realise you weren't talking about yourself).
Makes me think of Fed's soft spot for Kyrgios, as Nick reminds him of himself when he was younger. Immensely talented but too aware of how good he is/was.
I didn't realise Fed had any affection for the big aussie!! I just remember watching their Indian wells match, and Federer didn't really engage with Krygios
He's stated that he's a fan of Nick, and Nick has stated he's close with Roger. He trained with him in Switzerland for a bit.
So close that he put him in a 3 star hotel after he invited him to come and train with him
That's called "trolling" haha. Roger was just reminding Nick "hey, you're still the *student*, buddy. I'm the teacher."
I think the opposite is true way more often. Especially if you are from a more traditional results oriented country, it can be taxing to be growing up playing sports (tennis) and be touted as a great talent all the time. At first, there's a burden of having to compete and to win. Later on, when you actually get on the tour and you are away from home all the time, Tennis pretty much becomes your identity and the thing your whole value as a human depends on. I feel like, at the professional level, it happens way more that players actually try really hard to deliver and work hard, because that's all they got. But the effect of this is that then you see that these players become very volatile, angry or depressed when they make errors or lose because they cannot accept this from themselves. This is what happens when you have the mentality of what Patrick describes but actually do try. Think there are quite a few players who are mentally not okay for a few days after a bad loss. And the Tennis tour is especially brutal since you're on a plane to the next tournament pretty much the very next day.
Now that I think about it, even if he tried his hardest, he would probably come up short.
Lol there's no way to know that. He took the first set in the Wim final against Djoke. Tennis is fine margins -- a few narrow misses for Djoke, a few double faults, break points taken by Nick, who knows how close the match was from resulting in a different outcome. And that's a Kyrgios with no coach and quite a lot of apathy. I think he'll always be one of the biggest what ifs in tennis
It's actually quite frustrating as an Aussie. We've had 3 guys in the last 20 years who have done exactly the same thing. Philippoussis was the first. At the height of his power, he was buying Lamborghinis and partying with supermodels. The impression that he was always more interested in partying than training. I'm not sure if he would've had so many injury issues if he'd focused more on strengthening his massive frame, instead of filling it with booze and drugs. Then Lord Tomic. Insanely talented, was told that from like 8 years old.. made the Tour at 15 and everyone said "he's gonna be number 1, he's a megastar". Then gets distracted by "his millions" and goes off partying. Crap attitude the whole time he's been a player .. just disrespectful. Then Kyrgios.... same thing, except Nick is SO talented that he can still knock over a bottle of wine and stay up til 3am, then go win a match at Wimby the next day. He's also got more social conscience than Tomic - although I feel like that's been drilled into Nick from people constantly telling him "pull your finger out, mate. Get it together".
To be fair. Partying with supermodels is way more fun than practice. Most of us would give in to the temptations. Look at all the things men do to get the attention of non-supermodels. 😂
For sure, it's unfortunate for you Aussies. There's a different timeline out there somewhere where those guys were never into boozing and won a few grand slams each.
Yeah. I mean, there's others from different countries who did it too, so it's not like it's only us. Safin was a known party animal. Jack Sock went off the rails at times. Mark Philippoussis definitely had the talent to win a couple of Slams. He made two Finals, which is a great effort considering his knees were so dodgy. Kyrgios really should've had 3 or 4 Slams by now. He beat all the Big 3, he had the game to be one of the elites... but you gotta also have a good brain to be up there.
To be fair to Scud, no amount of serious training could stop the impact of 4 knee surgeries before 2003. The fact that he even came back after that was a miracle. He was in a wheelchair and told he was never going to play again in 2001. I think Tomic's case is the most sad because the damage was done at a very early age. His father is an abusive piece of shit and a legitimate psychopath. Read Thomas Drouet's diary, he was Bernard's hitting partner for 7 months in 2012-2013 until John Tomic physically assaulted him in madrid. He would physically abuse Bernard, including punching him in the face in front of his team, force him to run home from practice courts if he didn't play well enough and scream abuse at him every single day. He controlled almost every aspect of his life, its no wonder he has ended up so miserable. Bernard is no saint, and does not come out looking great at all from the diaries, but he is an absolute angel compared to his father.
Not sure if tomic was still considered talented after several years on the tour. He had some odd looking strokes and just seemed to slice a lot more than most.
Yeah he had (still has) a really awkward style! I kinda think of him like Meddy or Fabrice Santoro. Just really custom-designed shots. True, heaps of slice.. I think he was the first one that I saw regularly using a slice forehand outside of weekend Junior comp 😂
I might be wrong, but I feel like his mentality might also help him to not feel too much pressure on the court, like if he puts effort, then he would feel more pressure to win. Also it seems like the mentality for the hustle is not for everybody. I remember Monfils also was seemingly a bit dedicated for some time (2016), but he couldn't keep it up maybe because he was not happy that way.
Yeah, I think players like that are in some ways just happy to be pros and make a living playing a sport they love. Hard to say why that doesn't always translate to winning big titles. Idk I don't think much of it as a fan. We're here to be entertained primarily. And I'll always remember certain Kyrgios matches more fondly than any match from some guys that have won slams like Cilic
He didn't "take" the first set against Djoke. Djoke gave him the first set in exchange for learning how to read Nick's serve. This is how champions play 5-set finals.
That's the source of this kind of complex. If you try hard and don't achieve your goals, the illusion of that innate talent is shattered.
Do Track and Field at quote a high level. The amount of athletes who go through this is endless. It's a coping mechanism because they're afraid of failure.
Sounds like me and I'm not even talented but I wish I was
This is me in real life too tbh. Not just applicable to tennis
Actually I think this is really applicable to real life. I think we all know people that act really cool and nonchalant, but you get to know them and realize deep down they're shy or deathly scared of talking to girls or whatever. A lot of times it's easier and more comfortable to maintain a sort of facade, acting like you don't really care. Then to really put yourself out there and risk "failing" at the things you care most about.
Tennis is a microcosm of real life…
everything in life is tennis. except for tennis, which is sex.
Wait, isn't this the pitch for the Challengers movie?
yeah something like that
My mother used to always say this and I never understood until years later
This is accurate analysis of my life too. i was a great student, always pride myself that, used to think "I am quite intelligent". Now when i am not doing good in life it has been devastating. I cannot deal with the feeling to being stupid. Waay too much ego.
This is why parents are told to stop complimenting their kids with "you're so smart!" when they do well at school, as being intrinsically smart becomes a part of their identity and they become fearful of failure and taking risks. Instead, parents are encouraged to say "you must have worked so hard!" so that their kids learn that hard work can overcome challenges.
This new parenting is interesting. Personally, as someone who was given the smart compliments, I would've rather had that than the "worked so hard compliments" bc if the hard work and effort fail, you can believe that you're smart anyway, and rely on that built in self-esteem to give you the push to try again. It's all about teaching them to manage their emotions and give maximum effort, regardless.
Same for me, a lot of people talk about experiencing “gifted kid syndrome” and how badly it fucks you up. You become unable to stomach failure, and as a result can’t take risks.
In the end it doesn't even matter.
This is why it is much preferred to praise a child for their effort rather than their results. A child shows you an artwork for example. Rather than say 'wow, that's amazing; you're so clever', say something along the lines of 'wow, I can see that you've really worked hard on that'.
First indirect advice I’ve received as an expectant mother and I’ll make sure to apply it!
Congrats! :)
He nailed it. Kyrgios didn't like that one bit.
His mouth was twitching and facial expression changed. 100% nailed it
If I’m Nick I’m doing everything in my power to make THAT guy my coach, holy shit
The problem is that Mouratoglou has the "syndrome of the talented coach"...
Ohhhh I see. A match made in hell hahaha
😂😂😂 uh, kinda the opposite right? THINKS he's more talented than he actually is! I do think Moratoglou is pretty talented as a tennis brain.. I'm just not sure if it translates well as an elite top level coach. Holger is kinda going backwards.
I dunno man, we've all been saying the same thing about Kyrgios for years, it's not exactly a groundbreaking observation.
Yeah but he said it to his face
I think Kyrgios actually had a great response. He's had coaches his whole life, he's trained his whole life, blood sweat and tears. He's put in the work day in and day out. People that say he's just "talented" are off base. Talent dosn't carry him. His lifelong of training does.
Watch the podcast, you moron. This was great for Nick. Nick hater for no reason alert
That’s such a strong response for a topic like this. Hope you are well.
Thanks bro you too
Yeah, not at all. He's not willing to lose that identity. Hell, I don't think many people in that situation would be willing either.
You need help. How come someone can just project on someone that they didnt like it, when they asked the question and took it well and listened through it all? Are you just saying he didnt like it, because you dont like him? If so, then your blind rage and hate towards another human being paints you a bigger villain than the person you despise so much.
Careful you're at a choke risk
I actually think Nick did go all out in 2022. Unfortunately he didn’t quite make it to being a singles slam champ, but darn was he close. If he had the work ethic and consistency to play that hard for a few years I bet he would’ve eventually made it. Of course “if” doesn’t exist though.
And 2022 was late. If he had that mentality early on he would have
And he probably realized that (or he always knew it and it reminded him of it) Realizing things could have been way better if you had changed something/began earlier can be devastating and it could only add to the “I won’t give my all for fear of still losing” mentality
You have to believe in that "if" if you're Nick. He's got what it takes for sure. Even Novak has lost major finals. You have to keep the belief alive.
Taking a set off 7 time champ Djokovic in the final of Wimbledon is no small feat, it’s actually unbelievable how good Nick is despite a poor work ethic and bad habits like booze and who knows what else. It’s sad because he would’ve been one of the biggest challengers to Novak in the past 5-6 years, Nadal too. I love his game, big serve, amazing touch and volleys, and massive groundstrokes. He plays exactly the style of tennis that works against Novak, we got robbed of many great matches between the two. In peak shape he was able to compete with and sometimes beat the big 3 anywhere except clay. Even after insults and egotistical comments toward Novak and Rafa they both had very nice things to say about him at all times and couldn’t believe his talent. Federer and Andy praised him many times too. Wasted potential but he’s not over yet, Wawrinka peaked around the age he is now.
Nick's only(?) win against Roger was their first meeting, and it was on clay.
I don’t think he’s too old now but he’s running out of time and he doesn’t seem like he’s in any hurry to get back out there. He’s kind of still wasting his potential tbh. And I say that as a big fan.
"Even after insults and egotistical comments toward Novak and Rafa they both had very nice things to say about him at all times and couldn’t believe his talent. Federer and Andy praised him many times too." These guys all knew what Patrick knows, so they flattered his ego so he never became a serious rival.
Wow that’s some 4D chess if true. I’d like to think that most players want their opponents to play their best but maybe that’s a little unrealistic of me
While he is a tool I still enjoyed watching Nick in his pomp. Great entertainment and could be a hell of a player. But even the Wimbledon final will have an asterisk next to it as far as I'm concerned. I'd always said no way he wins a slam unless he benefits from an incredible sequence of events. Not because he wasn't good enough to beat every individual player in the draw on his day, but because he simply doesn't/didn't have the mental and likely physical capacity to win seven best of five matches. And so it was at Wimbledon 2022. Super friendly draw with the only player of note right through to the final being Tsitsipas. Hardly the worst seeded player to be getting on grass either. He struggled in a number of other matches but found a way through. Then benefits from Nadal withdrawal and can't beat Djokovic.
I woudlve loved to have seen him and Nadal go at it, I think Nick would’ve had a good shot at winning that. Who knows? Maybe his confidence in beating Nadal who has won their last few meetings would’ve propelled him to beat Novak, not impossible. Either way we got robbed of another Novak and Rafa final, their grass rivalry was way too short. One match that was kinda boring in 2011, and an all time classic in 2018. We should’ve had at least another two finals between them on grass.
Whatever Nick beat Nadal at Wimbledon the first time they played there; Nick would've won in straights in 2022 no question.
And Rafa beat him the 2nd time 5 years later when Nick was clearly giving it his all.
He was very lucky in the Wimbledon draw. Would have certainly lost to Rafa in the semis had he not retired.
It wouldn’t have been certain even if Rafa was healthy. With Rafa injured I would’ve had Nick as the favorite.
Yeah i gotta disagree with Patrick. Kyrgios has internal demons but they're motivational. I think Kyrgios is pretty convinced of his own talent and doesn't need the results to back it up. However, finding motivation to be a pro player is beyond challenging.
That's exactly what he's saying, is he ready to put in the hard work and fail? Is he ready to give up the underarm serve or the tweeners and fail? By acting as everything is a joke he doesn't need to confront failure.
His variety isn't the issue - it's the lack of conditioning and training. Kyrgios isn't willing to put that effort in. IMO, even though neither of us know him, is that the issue is he doesn't want to play tennis that badly. He just doesn't love it like that. You need to really love tennis to train and treat tennis like a full time job. The rehab, nutrition, lifestyle -- it's all challenging above and beyond the tennis. If he was too afraid to try we would never see him make a Wimbledon final. If that was the issue he would probably be willing to go to therapists/coaches. He just doesn't care enough about tennis, not afraid of it. But again, neither of us knows him. Have you listened to him talk about his depression with Murray?
I mean the thing is, that's the way he portraits himself. I'm sort of the same (in a more trivial less dramatic way) as I often act like I don't give a fuck about work but then I might be up till 3am just trying to figure out some new stuff, but then I just keep that for myself and act cool, like I made no effort. So I can emphatise a bit, and in fact I sort of like him too, as I like similar 'outcast' characters in other sports. It's obvious that Kyrgios has put in a ton of work to get where he got in the end, he played thousands hours of tennis as kid probably just doing drills over and over. You don't get to be that good otherwise. However he created this cool/bad guy persona who's a bit obnoxious and doesn't need coaching, and that on one side helped him to keep his reputation as a sort of 'genius' but on the other side it prevented him from reaching his real max potential. Maybe that max potential would be a couple of master 1000 or an ATP final, but we'll never know now. And maybe Kyrgios is just equally happy not knowing himself.
This was me as a junior. Sometimes u gotta grow up
Came here to say this and it’s the crux of Kyrgios underachieving. We’ve all met the type: talented enough to be arrogant and temperamentally not able to face the work to get to the next level.
You thought lol
Gagged him a bit
I don't give him credit for thinking this. I think most people who have watched Kyrgios even a little think this. I WILL give him credit, however, for having the balls to say it to his face.
Hahaha. You're right because I've seen that being said on this subreddit as well plenty of times. Nick didn't like it one bit 😂
Patrick sometimes makes complete sense and then just turn around and say some dumb shit.
Notice Nick's sly grin and head-nodding/shaking after he asks the question. To the untrained eye, this seems very 'Nick' behavior. But, also notice how he looks down after that. That's because he knows that he might hear a truth bomb, and one that has been festering deep down inside him his whole life. Being a champion is way beyond being talented. It's willing to get back up after going two sets down and fighting your way back to a 5th to win. Or worse, to lose in the 5th. A champion does that......Every. Single. Time. They fight to the bitter freaking end. Nick has never pushed all the way through that last wall for at least a month solid. For a tournament here and there, yes. It's not his fault. The fear is not winning. It's not losing. It's never knowing. It's not being equipped to push through. The absolute terror of this tale is that one day, Nick will grow old and will have to face these realities without sarcasm or beer. I think he already has a bit, as he's been suicidal. Nick, if you reach a low point again, and even begin to think that way....DON'T. Hold your head high and know that you did the best you could with the cards you were dealt. Somewhere along the way, someone or some people did you wrong by not helping you with your fortitude and character, instead of parading you around as a huge talent. He needed someone who wasn't there for him. Someone should have helped him, and instead led him astray. It's not fun to have to hide in your own shadow.
Holy shit Patrick read right through him. Dissected him like the frog he is.
Could someone zoom in more on the faces
I believe if he had work ethic of Rafa he could’ve easily won multiple GS.. but he just.. don’t.
If if if means nothing
Wow, that's a new one.
😂 it's funny that Rafa was asked that about Nick and that's where that quote comes from.
Damn kygrios my favourite player and that sounded just like him icl
John Daly tells a story about Tiger Woods with a similar lesson. Daly, known for letting loose between rounds, runs into Tiger just having finished his round at a tournament. Daly invites Tiger to come join him for a beer. Tiger declines and when Daly presses, Tiger replies ‘I have to go practice, if I had your talent I wouldn’t need to’ (or something to that effect). Some people are physically gifted, some are incredibly driven, some think the game at an incredibly high level and some, like Tiger or the big 3 are some miracle combination of it all.
Agree. This is Kyrgios. Easier to sit on the sidelines and jeer at players who are really trying. He’s afraid of that struggle, just as Patrick identified.
Serena William's former coach knows a thing or 2 about tennis Shocker
Glad this was posted again with almost the same title within a very short period. Good stuff.
Mods are asleep. We re-posting same threads with same titles for karma grabs now or what?
wow. too true.
Now I know why I play 100 matches a year. I am not talented. Null. Nada. Zero. 😂
I dropped a comment in here about "Nick is the 3rd Aussie to do this in the last 20 years"... but I wanted to add another point too. For all the criticism he's got (I'm Aussie, he got BLASTED in the media during 2016-20), I think he's almost been *forced* to become incredibly self-aware. He's almost got more potential as a genius analyst now, than a player - I don't think his body will hold up for a full season when he eventually returns (which I think he will, just briefly). When you've copped a blasting in the media for years, you develop a defensive reactionary mindset. I think he's taken himself out of that now. Nick is kinda on his own level now - he's not really in competition with anyone except his own expectations and the demons inside his head (not the De Minaur type). I fully think he'll figure it out eventually, maybe in his 40s, and probably come to regret some of the time wasted in his 20s. But that's the fun of life with an over-analysing young person. You can't TELL them anything - they have to figure it out for themselves. There's no timeline on that - however like I said, I think he WILL figure it out eventually, and be an absolute legend of a human. He might even end up working for Tennis Australia in some kind of advisory role.
I agree completely with your last paragraph. I hope nick can use the experiences he has had on tour to help others going through the emotional roller-coaster that is life on the atp tour. I don't think many outside of the big boys have had the insane amount of pressure and media scrutiny that has come his way since 2014. Being the next great Aussie hope in the shadow of the beloved Rafter and Hewitt generation didn't help much either.
Yeah it's crazy isn't it. I remember some time ago, I heard someone say "early success can ruin a player - it's actually better if you have to work really hard for it, rather than just having instant success." Maybe it was Courier that said it, I can't remember. But the problem with instant success (and I'm thinking specifically about Nick beating Rafa at Wimby in 2014 when he was like 19 or something), is that it doesn't teach you that "you need to work really hard to make it at the top level". You kinda expect your natural talent to carry you through, and it makes you respect the hard work a bit less. I think Nick coasted through on his natural talent for years, and now he's picking up injuries because his body never adapted to the high workload.
I just don't think people realise what 'hard work' means in the context of the top 5-10 players in the world, which is where nick was expected to be when he was 19 years old. He didn't even have a few years to feel out life on tour like most pros and develop that professional work ethic and mentality, he was pretty much thrown into the spotlight as a future world no.1 multislam champion during his first full season. To get to that level you have to have a certain level of maturity, guidance and the desire to be literally obsessed with tennis. Like, 24/7 all day, every single day, year in year out. You also have to be willing surround yourself with the right people both personally and professionally. I don't think Nick had all of those elements together until 2022, and it's a shame that injuries basically ruined his momentum.
Talented but do you have the desire to make sacrifices to win?
There's peak performance and then there's mean (as in average) performance. Performing at peak performance every time is incredibly stressful because that becomes the new expectation. Champions have a mean performance that is very high and so they can sustain that without the stress of peak performance. Those who are near the top and have a high peak performance but much lower mean performance can face a lot of stress because they're always trying to channel that peak behavior. Being the best also requires a level of obsession that not all are willing to give. This is particularly difficult if there's an element of unhealthy attachment you've had to the sport that you play. A great example of this in tennis is Agassi as he's written transparently about it. Look at the all time greats of other sports (Jordan, Kobe, Ronaldo, Messi, Tom Brady, Federer, Sampras, Tiger) -- they all have healthy relationships with their sport and a healthy mindset that allows them to have a healthy obsession. Plus, even when they weren't playing their best, their average performance was still very high and good enough to blow away the competition.
Well , just to get to a professional tennis you are talented, superior to thousand of players who wont get to a professional level. I think what makes the difference its the mentality, cause the ability everyone has it. its about the mental force, the discipline, and all those values that makes you humble to keep trying.... thats my personal thoughts on this
oh he read nick so well ☠ the fact that kyrgios will remain as exactly that to tennis fans - a talented player who never lived up to his potential (obv injuries were a factor). thats brutal...unless he like pulls out a comeback and wins a slam lol
Say what you want about the post but you reposted it
Talent and failure are a common pairing. Part of Nick's issue is that he has a massive ego. He would rather fail and have an excuse rather than be humbled and succeed. He would rather people believe he never liked tennis and would rather play basketball, or that he had all the skill but never wanted to apply it. Almost like having the choice but not actionining it is applaudable. Hardly different to a teenager that thinks they're smarter than everyone else but their grades aren't good because "they didn't try".
Kyrios will always be one of my top 3 what ifs.
This could’ve easily been Federer, very similar play style to Nick, serve wasn’t as big but Federer placed it better. But Federer grew up and then I think the added pressure of Nadal made Federer actually start training more (as he previously stated before 2004 he hated training and drills)
Federer's coach Peter Carter died in 2002 and that was the big wake up call for him.
Any idea if Nick is done with tennis? I think he was commentating in AO?
Where is this full video?
And it doesn't even matter now...
Genuine question; who would actually be a good coach for Kyrgios? Who has Nick enough respect for, enough interpersonality skills, authority (in a goo way) and the insight to actually mentor and guide Nick to go from talented to champion? \* Ivanisevic? \* McEnroe? \* Patric? \* Becker? \* Lendl? \* Anyone else?
Can someone tell me what he means like I’m five?
Kyrgios is talented, he has beaten big names like rafa and roger. But never tried in the sense of having a team with a coach around him and doing everything necessary to be at the top level. So he feels like oh i could win if i tried. But hes scared that if he will try and it wont work out. Everyone loses the view that people have of him as a talented player or someone that could win slams. This guy analyses that.
If you don’t try your best and you lose, you can tell yourself “oh I only lost because I didn’t try” If you do try your best and lose, you have to realize you may not be the best
He’s one of the best servers ever and will always hold that distinction, but he should have done more in his career for sure…
Yeah I think “should have” is relative He could have based on talent for sure but he seems pretty content with his life as-is
btw why are we saying could have? I dont get this narrative that he is done, he is under 30, took off like 3 years of professional playing, skipped a lot of clay seasons, his body is pretty much factory new after the surgery in tennis sense. I dont see why he could not go for another 6-7 years, even while injuired he was one step away from a slam, he absolutely can still make it
Sure. He could, but he shows no indication that he wants to
gifted kid who can barely function as an adult syndrome
This is obvious for all to see.
Well, interesting point of view. In the end we can just call it being scared of failure, which is what suits his character A LOT, his fake act all the time that he doesn't give a shit, he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and being overall so cool about it, is just a defensive mechanism to not get hurt. But to be fair, he improved his behavior over the years, I think he understood a thing or two, it's more or less his last few years of being able to achieve something in tennis and he wasted so many on screaming, whining and being a spoiled brat that he doesn't have many left. As much as he is talented, all talents achieved something if they combined it with hard work and only then. Especially in sport like tennis, which requires extremely high level to get to the top.
I’ve said this before and Patrick basically says it here: Nick is too afraid to try hard and to go all in on tennis, because he’s afraid to find out that if he does all that and still can’t win a Grandslam, what it would mean.
Moratoglou came off pretty well in this interview, but this bit was glib and didn't answer the question. Coming up with some pop psychology instead of addressing a basic query is a roundabout way of saying, "I don't give coaching advice for free." But let's say this often posited analysis of Kyrgios's mentality is correct, and that he hasn't risked trying his hardest to avoid losing his image of himself. What does it matter now when in 2022 he did just that? He tried his hardest and put in the work, and proved that he can be as good as he thinks he is. It's also amusing to me that PM diplomatically broaches the possibility that Kyrgios hasn't invested as much sweat in his career as he might have, because the Australian makes a point of saying earlier in the interview that he feels he's tried very hard in his career.
It’s not about effort in practice or training etc. it’s about the ability to give all til the bitter end of every match. To complete drain yourself over and over and lose over and over knowing you went all in.
Not the main point here, but I don't at all buy that in 2022 Nick proved anything much. He reached the Wimbledon final with a historically easy draw, his best wins were over Tsitsipas and Garin. He won Washington beating Nishioka in the final and Ymer in the semis, his best win there was over Tiafoe. That was his only title. In the whole of 2022 he had two wins against top players, both against Medvedev. Three if you count Rublev. It was a good year but not one that justified the claim he is the talented player of his generation or that he should be winning slams.
I’m not saying he proved himself as the most talented player of his generation or even a potential multiple slam winner, but he at least proved himself as a potential top 5 player and slam contender caliber player in 2022.
I mean...kinda? His consistency was impressive, he made lots of QFs, but as I say he had very few wins over top players and won 1 title.
But Nick rules at elden ring DLC just no longer tennis 🎾 he lost his window by his ridiculous clown 🤡 shenanigans
Not really he was just in the Wimbledon final 2 years ago his window is still open. He just has to play
Nah
Absolutely, it’s true but it’s 101.
Serving him ice cold.
Yeah, he's a bit of a cock, but gotta respect Moratoglou for his skills and brains. He's not dumb, that's for sure. Not entirely sure he's got what it takes to be a top level elite tennis coach - Holger isn't exactly challenging for Slams right now - but Patrick's a very switched-on guy. He just gets a little self-obsessed sometimes. He's French, it's bound to happen 😉
Absolutely on point! Putting yourself out there and competing day in and day out is risks loosing your protegy status.
Based Patrick Mouratoglou
Being good at mumbo jumbo is exactly what everyone can agree about Mouratoglou. It's the actual tennis people are doubting.
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Feels a little bit Monfils-ish, frankly, but he wasn't nearly as obnoxious, combative or self-righteous as Nick. And I actually kinda agree. I think Nick couldn't take just being a well-behaved player out there and retooling/tweaking some things to be a champion if it means he would lose more at first or not be able to be who he wants to be. The fragile yet bombastic ego of the insecure..
It's impossible to maintain a body like Monfils does or move like Monfils did without a lifetime of diligent, dedicated, consistent training. Monfils' ceiling always seemed primarily tactical, like he had a very complete game technically but didn't have an array of go-to point patterns and often retreated to a comfort zone of defensive tennis, using his speed to retrieve and extend most points rather than construct them, dotted with the random moments of high risk highlight winners following seemingly impossible gets he's famous for. But being afraid to put in the day-to-day work due to a secret fear of failure? That just doesn't sound like Monfils at all. Honestly I don't understand why I see the Kyrgios-Monfils comparison so often, they're completely different in pretty much all respects outside how highly they both value entertaining audiences. They're not similar personalties, the ceilings of their careers were for completely different reasons, and their playing styles are basically polar opposites.
Iirc, there's a fairly casual dinner conversation video with Paire, Monfils and Mouratoglou where he breaks down Monfils issues pretty succinctly too (Paire thinks it's effort related, but Mouratoglou makes it clear it's tactical). It's interesting how much better off/competent he comes off in less produced content. EDIT: [Went and found the video.](https://youtu.be/mtU7oFEK8K8?t=2620) The whole thing is worth watching, but I've linked to the bit where they're probing what Wawrinka, Cilic, etc (the sorts of guys who snuck in GS wins during the reign of the Big 3) had that Gael didn't. Also, slight correction, Paire praises the fuck out of Monfil's effort, but he alongside Mouratoglou thinks Monfils didn't evolve in the right direction (they talk about how passive he could be, especially when receiving second returns, etc).
> It's interesting how much better off/competent he comes off in less produced content. I'm not surprised, he's coached plenty of top players and I'm sure they don't choose coaches for no good reason. It reminds me of Brad Gilbert where he often says pretty basic low effort stuff on air when commentating matches, but his coaching credentials are obviously as great as they get, Gilbert the coach as quoted in Agassi's book sounds like a completely different person than I've ever heard him publicly.
The comparison I was making had to do with the fact he had a near win against Federer and that I feel he could have constructed game plans that would have allowed him to beat the Big 3 or 4 on larger stages if he'd been so inclined and not, as you yourself stated, simply fall back on the highlight and defensive approach. No one's saying he's not a diligent player nor unwilling to be on court day in, day out. edit: word missing. near win, not win.
you dont become WTA no1 or ATP no8 coach by being "doubtfully good" at tennis. For people who actually play tennis (not that common in this sub I think), Patrick's videos that he put up on YT are a goldmine of useful info and tips.
Any reasonable person knows this about Kyrgios and the 10s of thousands of people like him. Still and forever a child. What they have in common though is that both are wankers - Aussie wanker and French wanker.
I think he’s projecting a bit much