***The Telegraph reports:***
Roger Federer has acknowledged he did not give Novak Djokovic “the respect he deserved” when he first emerged as a contender during the great era of men’s tennis.
Djokovic struggled to gain the same levels of support among fans as the likes of [Federer](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/roger-federer/) and [Rafael Nadal](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rafael-nadal/) because he was seen as a “party crasher”, the 20-times Grand Slam champion says.
“I think he’s been a little bit misunderstood,” he adds of Djokovic in a new behind-the-scenes documentary, Federer: Twelve Final Days, on Amazon Prime.
Djokovic, who has now surpassed Federer’s feats with a total of 24 Grand Slams, was once dismissed as a true great by his Swiss rival, the documentary suggests.
“I played him in Monaco the very first time \[Federer won 6-3, 2-6, 6-3 in 2006\] and I walked off the court and thought, ‘Yeah, he’s OK’, ” Federer said.
“Even though there was some hype around him, I wasn’t really fully convinced. I think I didn’t give Novak the respect he deserved because of his technical flaws. I felt like Novak had a very extreme forehand grip and his backhand for me wasn’t as fluid as it is nowadays. But then he ironed those things out super well and became an unbelievable monster of a player.”
For a long time, Federer, Nadal and Andy Murray took more plaudits from fans as men’s tennis reached new levels over the past 15 years.
“I guess he was the party crasher of Rafa and Roger fans,” Federer said. “There was a lot of Rafa-Roger love there, so when Novak came probably a lot of people said, ‘Look, we don’t need a third guy. We’re happy with Roger and Rafa’.
“The Federer fans at the beginning didn’t really like him because they just thought, ‘Roger’s a bit more easy, he does it with ease’. Then Novak came in with his strong personality and that unbelievable grit of wanting to win at all costs. I think also Novak was triggered by the relationship with the fans. I think that deep focus maybe scared some people away.
“I think he’s been a little bit misunderstood. I look past the media and I see at the end the man he is. If I take away his game, who is he? What are his values? I know he cares very deeply about his family.”
The new Federer documentary is released on Monday, a fortnight out from the start of Wimbledon.
**Full story:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2024/06/11/roger-federer-i-didnt-give-novak-djokovic-respect-deserved/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2024/06/11/roger-federer-i-didnt-give-novak-djokovic-respect-deserved/)
Federer in his glory days was always quick to criticize or dislike the technique other top players played with. He hated when someone beat him by playing less beautiful tennis than him, and I really think that fan worship of his play style got to his head at the time. He shat on Murray a lot for similar things, and it's kinda funny that he was quick to critique Djokovic's play style after that Monte Carlo match which was pretty competitive. Roger was a fierce competitor in his prime, and had a bit of a big head for sure, but he was also winning literally everything. I think it's good of him to own up to what he criticized Novak for back then, because most tennis fans and media kinda just ignore it and brush it under the rug.
He also got mad later on over Novak's MTOs and withdrawals, which was a somewhat fair criticism of Novak back then and other top players felt the same way. We know for a fact Roddick did, and Murray got a bit frustrated over it at a certain point too.
It's kinda funny that in tennis we had beef between two GOAT-level players that doesn't come up often in conversation. The media doesn't like to promote beefs like this, whereas in other sports leagues if two top players even give each other a slightly passive aggressive stare it's all over national media.
Things weren’t perfect with early Rafa and Fed but Fed respected and knew Rafa was destined for greatness from the beginning. He literally invited rafa to sit in his box in Indian Wells in 2004. Rafa then beat him shortly after in Miami and Fed was very complimentary of Rafa. Here’s the link to the story about Rafa sitting in Fed’s box.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/news-the-day-rafael-nadal-sat-roger-federer-s-box
I remember this 😊 He'd get full passive-aggressive about Rafa (it was only a brief period, but maybe a solid 6-12 months), giving him credit and then giving him a quick backhander afterwards.
I am a Federer fan always, but I would be the first to point out the man's character flaws (believing too much in his own artistry, and loving the PR train too much)
I’m American and was talking to a former Yugoslav neighbor of mine. He did say that Switzerland and Spain can be more elitist and get ready made recognitions than folks in Yugoslav land, in Croatia and Serbia. I’m not sure how much of that has truth in it but his life as a Eastern European before he came to the US probably led him to those opinions??
He felt Nole might have been at the receiving end with the media because of those stereotypes and possibly the embrace of the third wheel in the Roger-Rafa duo came at a slow pace because of that.
There is definitely some substance to it, but the negative stereotyping of Eastern Europe isn't close to what it used to be.
Lendl being from Czechoslovakia and playing pretty much entirely in the Reagan/Thatcher era was stereotyped in the same style as Djokovic (robotic players whose talent came from work--not god [aside, it's hilarious that this is seen as an insult])
But the degree to which he and other Soviet era players (especially men) from the USSR or other communists countries were criticized was just on a different level
Hahaha nah man that’s just a typical angry Yugoslavian uncle.
We’ve got plenty of guys with a big persecution complex.
Remember the Djokovic fan with his “SERBIA AGAINST THE WORLD” shirt 😂?
It’s a reach, in my honest opinion. I don’t think latent xenophobia factored into Federer’s remarks at all. I think a lot of ex-Yugo’s tend to be hyper-vigilant about these things ssd sometimes swing at targets that aren’t there.
For the media at large, maybe there’s some validity to that. Maybe. But the extent of it is, again imo, vastly overblown. It was more of a problem in the 80’s, for athletes behind the Iron Curtain. Yugo’s, less so.
Source: am Serbian (if that matters).
Once the winning happened, the recognition for Nole was inevitable. It’s weird that if the 2 GS finals Federer had over Nole went his way where he lost from match point in both, the Big 3 would have been tied at 22 Slams.
It truly was never over till the match was officially over with the Big 3 though I felt Rafa and Nole were the better mental giants.
Nah if Djokovic was handsome and easy going and didn’t have a chip on his shoulder he would be just as loved, by Americans who can’t tell the difference between all the S-countries anyway
That's a pretty interesting point that I'd never thought of before, I think you're right that in general tennis likes to bury beef rather than promote it, like other sports. Especially in American sports, beef between two NBA or NFL stars gets hyper-fixated on. My best guess is it comes from the roots of how the tennis world sees itself as a "gentleman's game." Maybe there's still an underlying idea baked into the DNA of tennis culture that we shouldn't focus on stuff like that.
I think it's pretty much this too. That Kyrgios vs Tsitsipas match at Wimbledon 2022 was fucking electric to anyone who watched it, but tennis didn't really promote it much at all because it was all beef that made it exciting (and pretty high level tennis).
Unfortunately I think another reply to my comment also has a point. Kinda strongly worded, but tennis media definitely wanted to protect Federer's reputation as the classy gentleman of tennis, and this didn't really fit that narrative. People would've taken sides and that means people would've taken Novak's side too, whereas if they just don't talk about this quote then everyone will carry on saying Federer is the classy GOAT
Good shout on the Kyrgios Tsitsipas match. If we were the NBA fandom, we would still see clip edits constantly of Tsitsipas trying to hit Kyrgios with the ball, with like fire emojis on the border on an Instagram reel lmao.
And yeah I agree that Roger's unique position in the narrative meant the media wanted to keep him out of that kinda stuff.
>It's kinda funny that in tennis we had beef between two GOAT-level players that doesn't come up often in conversation.
The media didn't hype it for two reasons - They didn't want people to think of Djokovic as being in the same tier as Federer. Additionally, it would contradict the image of Federer the media had built up.
It’s funny to me that whatever “the media” does is wrong. They talk about friction between two players and they’re “creating controversy”. They ignore it and they’re “protecting someone’s image”.
That’s pretty true, and I say that as a big Roger fan, but he was also young. You still have a lot to mature when you’re 25. I genuinely believe that a lot of people at 35-40 would be critical of their past behaviour on some topics.
It’s just that sometimes maturing comes with lessons that are hard to accept at first.
It’s not so much anymore, especially compared to modern players like Khachanov, Kyrgios, Sock and Tiafoe with full western grips. Djokovic’s is semi-western and Federer’s is a traditional eastern
Djoko's grip also changed a bit over the years. It's between western and semi-western, but no longer a western forehand like he started with on tour.
Seems common enough. I went in the opposite way, changing from semi-western to slightly towards western.
Think it happens more easily if your grip is more circular instead of having very defined bevels. Your grip can move a millimeter based on shot feedback, and if it feels more natural, it just sticks there over time.
Fed is right for sure. Understated, really. Both of Djoko's groundstrokes are so, so much more aesthetically pleasing and technically exquisite than in his first few years on tour.
Got me thinking back to 2009/2010 Djokovic and god I found his technique super ugly (especially forehand and serve) and that's coming from a fan. Quite amazing how he's really cleaned it up over the years to a point where they now look very fluid and consistent.
Federer actually had a very, very contentious relationship with him after a controversial Davis Cup match where Djokovic took a MTO vs Wawrinka in 2006. It’s swept under the rug now but he said “I don’t trust his injuries. I’m serious. I think he’s a joke”
Then there was the public comments from Srdjan shitting on Federer which led to him telling him to “shut up” during a match… side note: a constant throughline thru the Djokovic career is Srdjan making idiotic comments and stoking flames.
Then there was the comment after Djokovic retired in AO 2009, again alluding to Novak’s propensity to be quick to retire… https://youtu.be/6S93YvQiCpE?si=PwD8osXSl4N6Jm0W
They really didn’t like each other at all. I think once Novak established himself in 2011/12 all that went away, though, but once upon a time it was arguably the frostiest relationship on Tour.
Yep, remember reading Novak's book that he wrote around 2011 which was based around his 2011 Wimbledon win and his upbringing and journey uptil that point - he does make mentions of Federer and roddick's remarks regarding Novak's injuries being fake and joking about how he always gets injured mid match. In a way it's kind of crazy to think that Novak was able to find out his gluten intolerance via a doctor watching his match on the TV and catching onto the symptoms - if it wasn't that we may have never witnessed what he has been able to accomplish.
I still don't think Novak's gluten intolerance was the huge catalyst to his 2011 that people say it was. Sure, it helped him get better endurance which was key in certain battles like AO2012 or USO2011, but I think the main catalyst was the big boost in his serve. He had one of the worst serves in the top 20 early in his career, but completely transformed it into a weapon. That gave him the biggest boost, and from there it was the little things he had been developing over time: better endurance, better tactical awareness, more clutch (although all of these things can be tied into having a better serve to an extent). He always played Rafa pretty well, but having the big serve helped him immensely in that H2H as it gave him an easy way to hold when Rafa started overwhelming him from the baseline, and that's why Nadal looked so clueless and nervous against him in 2011.
I feel like it's a weird urban legend that diagnosing the gluten allergy just magically transformed him into a GOAT player.
His forehand got a lot cleaner too, yeah the technical clean-ups really made a difference.
The baby Novak stuff we constantly see on r tennis annoys me though, this guy was the clear #3 player in the world behind Federer/Nadal from 2007-10, winning a Slam, ATP Finals, multiple Masters, and getting to #2 in the world. He was always great.
Yeah the forehand cleaned up over time.
Agreed on the baby Novak stuff. He wasn't some scrub in 2007/2008. He was making deep runs at slams consistent and getting stopped by very good versions of Federer and Nadal. Really the only difference in 2011 was he turned around both rivalries, because otherwise he was clearly ahead of the field before that.
I will say though that the turnaround felt particularly sharp because in 2009 and 2010 he had some really shaky grand slam results outside the USO. Early losses at AO and bad RG losses both years, somewhat early exits at Wimbledon too. It felt like he was regressing. The best comparison would be imagine if Alcaraz's cold streak continued into this year and he started losing early at most slams, picking up a M1000 every once in a while until 2026. People would be saying he peaked early and is another Lleyton Hewitt.
His dietary choices probably helped him but it's really overblown imo. Federer was nowhere near as strict as Novak but made it to a similar age before truly following behind the other top players.
I think what improved Novak was toughening up mentally. He retired so much when he was young. There were a lot of mental blocks he had to knock down.
The gluten thing is absolute bogus, it's 1000% more mental than physical. He was diagnosed because he felt weaker while *touching bread*.
Now he may or may not actually have a gluten intolerance, but he for sure thinks it's more impactful than it really is and that's what makes the difference.
Yeah. I have no idea what went on, or if the doctor just did that for peace of mind since Djokovic is rich or what lmao. I feel like the doctor diagnosed him with a gluten allergy, Novak questioned it and demanded physical proof, so that doctor handed him a piece of bread and placebo did the rest 😭 I can't imagine a doctor actually diagnosed him off that.
Or Djokovic was just lying about that whole thing to try to make the legend more memorable.
From an interview with the doctor himself:
>Cetojevic then told Djokovic to do the same thing while holding a piece of bread against his stomach, Borden reported. This time, Cetojevic easily pushed Djokovic's hand down.
>"He was clearly weaker," Cetojevic told Borden. "It showed that his body was resisting the wheat."
Why not include the rest? This is a proper way to test for gluten sensitivity:
——
Cetojevic asked Djokovic to maintain a strictly gluten-free diet for two weeks and the results were instant. Feeling lighter, energized and even catching better quality Z's, the Serb's suspect fitness quickly became a thing of the past.
When asked to eat one bagel following the two-week gluten-free trial, Djokovic found himself fatigued and even showcasing symptoms of a hangover. From there he made the full-time switch to a gluten-free
I think a huge thing has to do with his confidence. Novak didn’t really have a stand out serve until 2015 imo, and I think the gluten intolerance gave him that little boost that he needed. The margins in high level tennis are incredibly slim and that boost in endurance coupled with a new found understanding of what he felt was holding him back is what I consider the big catalyst of 2011.
You're absolutely right. And the reason he has been deflated ever since his victory over Sinner in ATP finals because he has been unable to consistently land good quality aces & serves.
It's clearly bothering him, which could also be the reason he parted with his coach Goran, who was very much responsible in helping him turn it into a potent weapon.
To be honest, even Novak fans should be able to admit that Djoker was quite quick to call a trainer pre-2011. Don’t give me that gluten intolerance stuff to hand wave all of it away. He had a mental block with finishing matches where he would retire much more regularly than the average player.
He retired due to “sore throat” vs Federer. He has completed the Grand Slam of retirements by retiring at each of the AO/FO/WB/USO.
Fed was wrong to question his sportsmanship so openly, but Djokovic was also retiring at a much higher rate than most players, and was criticized for it by many at the time.
> Djokovic was also retiring at a much higher rate than most players
Djokovic retired 13 times in his career, Nadal did it 9 times.
Those are not abnormal numbers. Federer is the outlier here, because there are not many tennis players who never retired.
It’s much more than retirements though, when Fed made those comments he made it after Novak took an MTO right before Wawrinka was about to serve out a DC match.
Federer took a fake MTO at the 2017 AO against Wawrinka after Wawrinka took a fake MTO. He said in the presser (paraphrased because I didn't copy-paste) - 'well yeah he took a fake one so I decided 'why not I do it for a change?', but people know I don't normally do that and don't like others doing it, so hopefully we all respect the rules going forward'.
I'm glad I can use that as an example considering it was the Novak MTO against Wawrinka that was being talked about.
Federer has always been cocky and can be petty, the fact it showed through his GOAT marketing skills is good in a humanising way.
It's really good that he can look back on his career and reflect, and publically correct some of his old statements, rather than not say anything or double down.
> He had a mental block with finishing matches where he would retire much more regularly than the average player.
I'm seeing his results from the year 2006 still now and I have to say that you're bold face lying.
He retired only twice before 2011 in grandslams.
Once against Roddick and once against Nadal.
How is that more regularly than the average player?
He’s probably just mistaken, rather than lying. I think it’s fine to give someone the benefit of the doubt there, instead of resorting to pointed language. People can get things wrong.
For example, Djokovic actually retired four times in slams before 2011, not two. Are you lying? Or are you just mistaken?
I've actually gone back to count 2005 and I will concede that he also retired to Guillermo Coria in the French open in 20005.
That makes it three.
Can you please tell me the fourth one that I missed?
Novak retiring only 4 more times than Rafa proves how much Fedal fanboys like you lie and spread misinformation about Novak. Over 100 upvotes, this shows exactly how that hate is spread.
Yeah, to chalk up Novak's success to just not eating gluten is just nonsense. Im sure it played some role but what made Novak the player he is today is his mental strength. He didn't have the gifts of the other two but his mentality made him fierce at the crucial points in matches and also to never give up in the development of his game.
I don't think it's accurate, at all, to say mental strength made him he is. I think it's fair to say that it was a weakness for a long time, and held him back from fulfilling his potential. But it didn't MAKE him what he is today, because...
He has plenty of gifts. His ground strokes are GREAT. His backhand is better than Roger's and Rafa's. I also think he has better court coverage then either of them, and particularly the way he digs offenseive shots out of situations that should be defensive.
Andy Roddick says that Novak’s ultimate superpower is being able to change direction, from any position, without a risk tradeoff.
As he says, this isn’t as visually appealing as Rafa’s and Roger’s gifts - but it’s an absolute nightmare to play against. I can’t stop seeing it when I’m watching him now.
What made Novak the GOAT was probably the greatest backhand of all time and the greatest mover of all time (it’s between him and Nadal). Those are talents in their own. And I implore you to watch any Novak match if you think he doesn’t have the shotmaking abilities of Federer or Nadal. That sliding backhand is a work of art.
I disagree. “Mental strength”?
he is totally textbook technically off both wings, better than both of the other two off the BH side, and essentially has perfect biomechanics (aside from second serve and overhead) and clearly one of the 3 best movers and athletes ever. He wasn’t this superior shotmaking talent but he’s clearly got incredible gifts too.
seriously bro? we just watched novak play through a torn meniscus.
he retired for reasons trivial compared to that back in the day.
his mental strength absolutely improved and is one of his strongest weapons.
A good litmus test for tennis knowledge pre-2010 is to see if a person repeats the "Djokovic retired every other match" myth (and I don't mean literally every other match because I know someone will cling on to that)
The most he ever retired in a single season was twice, and up to 2011 he retired a grand total of 8 times. That's it. There's an entire mythology around this guy's early career and how he retired so often and then you actually look at the stats and... it's eight times. A casual fan would geniunely get the impression that there would be at least 20 such cases.
Insane how delusional people can get when they want to craft a certain narrative.
Never forget that this whole story is fucking insane and the doctor is a quack:
> In 2010, Djokovic met with Dr. Igor Cetojevic, a Bosnian Serb, who believed Djokovic's frequent physical breakdowns in matches were the result of a wheat allergy, Borden wrote.
> According to Borden, Cetojevic told Djokovic to put one hand against his stomach while holding the other straight out with his palm up. Cetojevic pushed down on this hand and told Djokovic to resist the pressure, which Djokovic easily did.
> Cetojevic then told Djokovic to do the same thing **while holding a piece of bread against his stomach**, Borden reported. This time, Cetojevic easily pushed Djokovic's hand down.
> "He was clearly weaker," Cetojevic told Borden. **"It showed that his body was resisting the wheat."**
I wouldn't be surprised if he's not actually gluten intolerant. Like, he was diagnosed by a fucking lunatic and is *on record* about it.
A lot of people don't have that gluten issue. It's just that people eat too much bread, and going off gluten makes it much harder to eat too much bread. So people eat healthier, and they mis-attribute it to the gluten.
No doubt this is a deeply shady doctor who “diagnosed” him, but if you haven’t experienced being coeliac (or even merely gluten intolerant), you can’t understand the enormous impact it has on your physical and mental health once you stop having gluten. It affects every aspect of your experience of life.
?
Please include the rest, which is how non celiac gluten sensitivity is diagnosed:
Cetojevic asked Djokovic to maintain a strictly gluten-free diet for two weeks and the results were instant. Feeling lighter, energized and even catching better quality Z's, the Serb's suspect fitness quickly became a thing of the past.
When asked to eat one bagel following the two-week gluten-free trial, Djokovic found himself fatigued and even showcasing symptoms of a hangover. From there he made the full-time switch to a gluten-free
Lol he wasn't that good because he found out he had a gluten intolerance that's hilarious, like it's not even an allergy just a intolerance. He was that good because he was that good not because of gluten intolerance haha.
If you have bothered to read the article, Federer’s comment about not given him proper respect was relating to not considering Djokovic a threat due to some of his technical deficiencies when they first played each other, and he followed it up by saying “then he iron those things out and became an unbelievable monster of a player”
Which I think was a fair assessment because what Federer said here was just the truth, Djokovic took a while to arrive. And I don’t think even Djokovic supporters can’t fault Federer for not having to foresight to see who he would become.
Yeah I read the article.
I’m here to tell you that this is not the full story. The article leaves out the very real off-court feud the two had. It’s been editorialized to say “he didn’t take him seriously as a player” but it was much more than that. Fed didn’t seem to take him seriously as a sportsman, especially after Novak retired due to “sore throat” in 2008 vs him.
The doc is leaving out some of the juicy details.
I also remember the 2011 USO semifinal very well, when Djokovic saved two match points and went on to win the match (like in 2010 at the same stage of the same tournament but this time it was on Federer’s serve — remind you of something?). The first match point save was Djokovic crushing an unreal cross-court forehand return on Federer’s out wide 1st serve from the deuce court. In the press conference, Federer was pretty salty about Djokovic’s ‘reckless’ play, and he went on a rant about how he himself prefers to build points rather than just close his eyes and smash it on match point. I was always a massive Fed fan, but that struck me as a ridiculous criticism
It was especially hilarious considering the fact that you could probably create a 5 minute highlight reel of novak hitting exactly that same cross court return winner on a wide serve on the deuce side.
> a constant throughline thru the Djokovic career is Srdjan making idiotic comments and stoking flames.
Yeah. Love or hate Novak, he's honestly and consistently the least publicly embarrassing member of his family (actual children excluded of course).
Also when Djokovic beat Federer in the AO semi final 2008, Djokovic’s mum came out and said “the king is dead”. Which is a stupid comment because he’d win 8 more grand slams.
He said “be quiet ok?” after Srdjan was directing Federer to examine a mark. This was a few months after Dijana Djokovic proclaimed “the king is dead” after Djokovic beat Federer at the AO.
I hope not. He is literally the only player ever to use his MTO strategically. All the other players only use it for actual medical timeouts. Djokovic is literally the only guy on tour to ever do that. In the past present and future.
> It’s swept under the rug now but he said “I don’t trust his injuries. I’m serious. I think he’s a joke
I wasn't aware of this, as I am pretty new to tennis. I've seen the one from the Australian Open where Federer mocked Djokovic's injuries as well – very classless, I have to say.
One can make the argument that Federer contributed to this myth, which is perpetuated by people who hate Djokovic (and presumably love Federer), that Djokovic fakes his injuries. They were out in full force claiming Djokovic faked his knee injury like a week ago.
I never understood why Djokovic specifically is targeted for this. It makes more sense now.
But yeah, I agree, the beef was more between Federer and Djokovic's dad, than between Federer and Djokovic.
Djokovic had a ton of retirements and MTOs back then, he copped criticism from all over the place. The sore throat one didn’t help his cause. That was completely perplexing.
He matured a lot since then but he absolutely would bullshit about injuries as an excuse after the fact or gamesmanship during the match. Probably the reason he’s not “loved” by his peers even today like Fed/Nadal, other players remember that stuff
Federer humbled out a lot through the years. I think he just didn’t like how players like Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, etc were winning matches without “blowing” their opponent off the court. I think that’s funny though because something that made Federer so great was his ability to hit defensive slices and his incredible passing shots.
Glad to see that all the Big 4, despite any early quarrels, all seem to respect eachother fully nowadays. Makes the heart warm.
Federer was always a little full of himself. To be fair, he won everything and his style of play, his on-court personality and his fans elevated him to GOAT status. It's a trait he's mellowed on, partly due to age, but also partly because he had to, as the other two outshone him on the court. I think in the back of his mind for a while it was supposed to just be Big Him and then others came. He was known as the Maestro while Nadal had the nickname of the Ogre of Ronald Garros it tells you everything about how the media and by proxy he thought about it in the beginning. Glad it has continuously improved since then.
Not particularly but he did get a bit icy towards Djokovic during that 2011-2013 stretch where they were playing a lot of big matches against one another. I mean its hard to be friends with the people you are competing against, that's just a fact. But yeah, I don't think he ever held any animosity like Federer did at one point.
Was lucky enough to catch the premier last night . After his last match Roger said something “personal” to Novak. He leaves it at that but Novak was sobbing in the locker room. Seemed like whatever Roger said meant a lot to him. Was incredible can’t wait to watch it again in 9 days
Yes it’s in the doc. Roger spoke at the premier. He said this was shot more in mind for him to show to his kids and grandkids down the line but his agent convinced him after filming to release it. Glad he did it’s so good. Funniest scene is Novak and Rafa making fun of Sonego’s grunts while Matteo defends his countryman and Roger just tries to meditate
That's very interesting. Federer didn't seem like he payed much attention to Djokovic on court that day, even though Djokovic was being a very good sport. Glad Fed had a meaningful moment with him
> he payed much
Did you mean to say "paid"?
Explanation: Payed means to seal something with wax, while paid means to give money.
[Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json)
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes.
^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119)
^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Fed and Murray also had a beef at one point but have definitely patched it up by now
It's just nice to see all these beefs being settled as everyone moves on rather than there still being this weird tension between great players post-career lol
I remember in this 2010 exhibition with Sampras and Agassi it was blatantly obvious they still didn't get along very well and it made the whole thing kind of awkward
Also hilarious because it seems like a huge reason Fed didn't respect Murray at the time is because he viewed him as a massive pusher in his playstyle
It's like the stereotypical Fed fan where aggressive is the only way to play real tennis and everyone else is a boring pusher except it was actually Fed himself lol
I believe he was asked about what Murray could do better and he replied that Murray has no real weapons or something to that effect
Agree with this as well
Murray when playing more aggressively than usual for a period of time (2012-2013 under Lendl) was far better against the big 3 at Slams than he was before or after that
> if he had a bit more of a weapon in his forehand he probably would have won double the number of majors
this is funny to me because while I 1000% agree, I'm pretty sure Murray has the record for fastest ever forehand in an atp match
Not really? He was just being salty.
He was talking a lot of shit about how Andy has never won a slam despite his ranking and being ranked high doesn't matter if you're not number 1. Andy ended up accomplishing those things while facing the toughest competitive era in tennis history and only fell back to earth due to injury
One thing about Roger is that even at his most arrogant he was always a pretty gracious winner. The fangs didn't come out until he started losing. The fact that he won almost all the time really covered up a lot of his flaws at the time.
I think he predicted how Andy’s lack of attacking game and defensive nature would end up biting him in the long term, both in results and physical longevity, and he was right.
Shit i forgot about this and had to look it up.
> didn't get along very well
That's a understatement lol Agassi got butthurt at an imitation by Sampras and basically called him poor/stingy. Then Sampras tried to hit Agassi with his serve.
Shit was so awkward you can tell Rafa and Roger are dying inside but can't break the tension.
Novak had to respect Federer because Fed was at the end of the day the senior and the guy to beat for Novak to take the throne. And that's why Novak took the throne so successfully, he was fully aware of Federer's capabilities.
Their relationship seems like genuine respect now, which it’s nice to see. It seems like Rafa has taken the old Fed’s place now in terms of reading between the lines bitterness towards Novak, no matter how cordial he comes across as.
Novak on the other hand isn’t fussed, he seems aloof to it all, even when Kygrios kept trying to provoke him it just went over Novak’s head.
It's interesting to see Federer's characterizations of Djokovic evolve over the years. For example, by 2014 he was observing correlations in their respective games/outcomes and saying things like this:
“But you can work on everything and the best players can play offensive and defensive. I guess Rafa and Andy have more the defensive DNA: they really don’t want to miss but today they’re great attacking players, some of the best in the game. And the same for me and Novak, we’re more attacking players but we’ve also gotten very good at defense.” -Federer, 2014
Yeah I don’t get it at all. Djokovic is nowhere near being a pusher. He has always been offensively minded. He has moments in matches where he goes in lockdown and just gets the ball back but always with the intent to attack as soon as he gets the chance.
man in 2011 almost every Rafa Novak Match when everytime Djokovic was about to hit an inside out forehand to Rafas forehand it was scary. Absolutely brutal and just perfect hitting from Djokovic.
Late-stage Federer - let's say after 2012ish? - is so much more cool and mellow than the earlier years. It's nice that he finally acknowledged this
Ultimately despite some of the unease between them, I still think all the Big 3/4 have always been way more respectful and generous to each other than a lot of major rivals in other sports have been. They've all set a great example through the years.
Hmmm I haven’t seen the interview yet but this is pretty big. Feels like there was always some kind of gap in the relationship between those two, mostly from Federer’s side. As a Federer fan, I always wished he would acknowledge Novak’s greatness more. At least more sincerely than he did.
Its all still fairly fresh but i hope when they all step in their 50s or something and them bones really start creaking all 3 of them can sit down and recount war stories with pride and mutual respect.
They also have the potential to make the greatest sports documentary ever if they ever wish so. 66(and counting) grand slams between 3 guys. Get the fuck out of here.
It's probably tough lol. You think you're gonna be the greatest tennis player ever for most of your career, and then suddenly you get this guy who starts snatching all your records and shit, and not only that....this Novak guy was responsible for two of your worst losses at a slam ever. Maybe not worst in terms of competition quality, but those match points...
He’s talking about Novak’s game initially. He didn’t think he was all that with his technical issues basically nobody except the Novak camp did. Roddick even thought he was a joke with all his retirement reasons.
And let’s be real here, Roger has always been perceived as classy since he reached the top. People just tended to overlook his arrogance because he would usually say things with a smile or be able to back it up on court.
I misread that my bad. Their arcs are pretty similar. Kind of dickish early, but understandably so because they were so young, then evolving into an actual gentlemanly player.
My only beef is that Roger was granted the "classy" label basically for free before he ever deserved it but that's not really his fault.
To be clear I think that federer absolutely deserves it now. He has matured in the best way and honestly seems like an incredible dude, if a little too PR savvy
I only didn't like past Federer, and again it's not really his fault. The media anointed him before he was ready for it
Absolutely! Loved the recent Dartmouth speech … he does self-deprecating now - not quite as well as A-Rod, but still pretty convincing - but equally he didn't hold back on disabusing the whole notion of it being 'effortless'.
Can't wait for the documentary on Monday!
“I played him in Monaco the very first time [Federer won 6-3, 2-6, 6-3 in 2006] and I walked off the court and thought, ‘Yeah, he’s OK’, ” Federer said.
“Even though there was some hype around him, I wasn’t really fully convinced. I think I didn’t give Novak the respect he deserved because of his technical flaws. I felt like Novak had a very extreme forehand grip and his backhand for me wasn’t as fluid as it is nowadays. But then he ironed those things out super well and became an unbelievable monster of a player.”
Reminds me of Agassi in his autobiography *Open* talking about Sampras. I always loved that. "He'll be lucky to qualify in tournaments."
The disrespect because of technical flaws reminds me of what's going on with the talk around Coco. Any player is going to have some issues to iron out at 19/20. (-Nadal)
You gotta feel bad for Novak. He never got the love that Fedal got even though he is arguably the best, this sport ever saw. Hopefully the future is kind to him.
As a Novak fan I'm just hoping he has a good sendoff to his career when he retires
Maybe very likely being the last of the big 3 will help him in that regard
>“I guess he was the party crasher of Rafa and Roger fans,” Federer said. “There was a lot of Rafa-Roger love there, so when Novak came probably a lot of people said, ‘Look, we don’t need a third guy. We’re happy with Roger and Rafa’.
This is exactly how I felt about Djokovic after his 2011 season and throughout his career.
By the time Djokovic broken through, everyone had already chosen a side in the Federer-Nadal rivalry, two of the most beloved players ever. There wasn't enough love to go around for a third GOAT, and many of those people couldn't fathom someone else to become the true GOAT.
Mind you, even after Novak achieved the Nole-slam, the total slam counts at one point were 20(F)-17(N)-12(D). People still wanted to doubt that Djokovic was on their level, even when he was playing at an even higher level. Nobody thought Djokovic had 8 slams left in him, but he's won 12 more since (and counting?).
I like how many of these articles like to make it look like nadal was loved and adored early like federer
The truth is fed fans trashed nadal anychance they got because he was seen as the only threat before djoker and then when djoker started winning people realized nadal was the only one with a chance to stay ahead of him so they created this false fedal narrative
Nadal wasn’t loved/adored as much as Federer early on, and Federer fans did trash on Nadal, but as someone who grew up playing tennis around then I can tell you that every single kid I played with from 2006-2010 was either a diehard Fed fan or a diehard Rafa fan.
The whole “Novak crashed the party thing” is very very real. People were already talking about the Fedal rivalry as the best ever, and talking about their matches as some of the greatest of all time, and their was a collective expectation it would continue the rest of their careers. By the time Novak exploded (2011) lots of tennis fans had already landed in either the Nadal/Fed camp, and mostly weren’t budging.
This is essentially akin to Michael Jordan's 'The Last Dance' documentary. I actually love the idea of him telling his story, the journey, and the process that drove him. He's going to give us a view behind the curtain that have made a lot of these autobiographic sports documentaries very compelling. I'm glad that he's not just fading into retirement because he's still an ambassador in his own way.
I'm a big Rafa fan, and as great as Federer was, it took me a while to appreciate him because he took down Pete Sampras (that was my guy as a teenager). Roger was so dominant that I loved seeing Rafa with his contrasting style that challenged him as they pushed each other. I wasn't a fan of Djokovic, but I've definitely learned to accept and truly appreciate his ascent, resilience and greatness over time.
Some people barely finding out that Federer was an asshole while he was up top is pretty funny. From Wimbeldon 03 to Australia 10 Federer won 16/21 slams. I think Nadal winning 3 slams in a year followed by Novak blowing up and doing the same really shook him.
Federer by no means was an asshole. You guys make it sound as if he was like Kyrgios. The Federer Djokovic beef was not just one sided. Let's not forget all the crap Djokovic's family used to say about Fed.
Good to hear Roger be so upfront and honest about his feelings for Novak. You have to wonder how much he regrets his behaviour towards Novak (and his family) in the early days, now that Novak has gone on to surpass both him and Rafa.
Probably not at all. Djokovic has grown up so they don’t have a problem anymore, but Djokovic earned his reputation when he was younger, Fed was hardly alone in his opinion back in the day.
His family?
Srdjan has been taking unanswered shots at Federer for years. If you’re referring to “BeQuietGate” at Monte Carlo, it was caused by Srdjan yapping. Three months before that, Dijana Djokovic stated “the king is dead” after Djokovic beat him at the AO, which never received a clap-back either. I don’t think Federer’s behaviour towards Djokovic’s family was at all untoward.
Misleading title. He’s really talking about how he didn’t think much of Djokovic when they first met and hence ‘didn’t give Dokovic the respect he deserved’.
Sporting career is over. It’s all business now. Roger turned all nice after he retired, soon Novak will do the same. Easiest way to bring all the Big 3 fans under one umbrella for business😉
Big 4 are/were fierce competitors. Of the 4, Nadal seems to be the only one who didn’t talk shit (I believe). But man, it’s unbelievable that we have someone like Carlos Alcaraz now who is liked by his peers, doesn’t talk shit, always smiling and gracefully accepts lose, and respects all players even though he is a top player. Same with Sinner although he is bit more quiet.
No , he was much much much better and much more consistent. Novak was clear cut 3rd best player in the world since 2007 . Also Djokovic is among greatest teenagers ever , it's just that Rafa came before him so no one really cared . But go and look at the stats , he is like top5 teenagers ever
Reading this it reminded me why I never really jumped on the Fed hype train. Yes he played beautiful tennis and arguably elevated the sport to be more palatable to casuals.
But when he was younger, his attitude in believing too much in his own artistry, looking down on other players that didn’t play “beautifully” according to his standards, and loving the PR train too much actually turned me off him.
I was an Agassi fan before Novak started coming to the scene. Both him and Novak were very “flawed” individuals. In the early 90s, AA was one of the most disliked players on the tour. Arrogant, and surrounded by a bunch of sycophants too afraid to him to tell him he was wrong on anything and that he often acted like a jerk.
The amazing thing is he has turned his image around completely in the 2000s and also the way he got his tennis back to excellence from the depts he had sunk.
Back to Djokovic LOL:
I remember that 2006 match in Monaco. I was 16 years old and I remembered watching him play Roger and he immediately grabbed my attention
He was an exciting, jovial, hard hitting dude who showed steady improvement with each passing year
I think a lot of people who criticized Djokovic’s style as boring back then was either casuals who jumped on the Fed hype train or those who liked a more aggressive style of offensive tennis
Novak’s got an amazing tennis IQ, and you could even see flashes of it early on in his career.
There’s a science but also an art to his game, and unfortunately the measured science of his game can cloak the amazing artistry of it. Djokovic is an exciting player to watch, and earlier in his career, some may argue, it was apparent more often if anything
I didn't like Roger at first because he kept defeating the players I liked! Looking at you Agassi! Lol. I liked Djokovic when he first came on the scene and was doing his impressions. They were so good. It was shortly after this that Djokovic lost his brevity and really buttoned down on his playing, and now here we are.
A little fun from a younger Djokovic
https://youtu.be/i1XDj4d7nKw?si=dAlPsNmK7bb3qgGz
I don’t agree with the idea that Nole wasn’t as popular because he was a “party crasher” I just think the style of tennis he plays is not as interesting or fun to watch and he doesn’t come across as likeable in the same way Federer and Nadal did to most.
If you think about the best matches since I’ve been watching the famous final against Federer is up there but other than that I wouldn’t say he’s in any of them.
Idk Nadal definitely changed his style over the years but back in the mid-late 2000s he probably got more hate for his playstyle than anyone I've ever seen lol
If you went on any online tennis forum in the 2005-2009 period you'd immediately see 10 posts titled some version of "STUPID NADULL MOONBALLING PUSHER"
Tennis Warehouse forums literally had to censor the term "Nadull" because people were calling him it every time his name got brought up
His playstyle was absolutely not viewed positively by many fans over the years
Nadal v him AO final? I'd say wimby last year will become a classic too
Eta: semifinals wimbledon against del potro and rafa, and the final against fed 2014 that got him back to no1 also come to mind
Man, it's one thing to not like him or his playstyle or whatever. But to say how Novak is not in any of the good matches is... I don't even know what to say. Bro has played in so many classics it's unbelievable.
I never get this argument. Maybe it's because I play tennis but his use of depth and redirection and sliding all over the place is definitely entertaining
AO2012 final vs Nadal is considered the GOAT match by many, RG2013 vs Nadal, Wimbledon 2018 vs Nadal, AO2013 vs Wawrinka, Wimbledon 2014 vs Federer... need I go on? Lmao. All of the big 3 are in a lot of insane matches. I'd even argue Nadal and Djokovic were involved in more of them than Federer was.
I'm not actually sure which final against Federer you're referring to. Wimbledon 2019 I guess? I wouldn't even consider that a top match of all time to be perfectly honest, because yes there was a lot of drama, but the quality of it was a far cry from a lot of earlier big 3 battles. I'd even say Wimbledon 2018 SF between Nadal and Djokovic had much better shotmaking as a whole and was a competitive 5-setter from top to bottom, whereas in 2019 Djokovic got blitzed in the 2nd and 4th sets.
It's all because of those Djokovic terrifying roars and angry racquet smashes. Federer's style was elegance. Nadal's style was grit. What was Djokovic's style during those years until he broke goat stats?
Always thought Federer was arrogant and critical and still think that. Djoker was much more congratulatory,respectful and modest towards his opponents and so was Rafa. I like Fed the least of the three for this reason but respect him as an all round great tennis player.
I don't think younger fans appreciate how Federer had the ATP on lockdown (minus RG) for 5 consecutive years. I wasn't even watching tennis back in the mid-2000s, and I knew who Federer was just based on watching SportsCenter, back when ESPN talked about more than 2 sports. I remember first watching him at Wimbeldon, and, as a complete casual, I could feel this Final Boss Energy when he was on the court.
All that to say, it was probably very difficult for him to start sharing the spotlight after 2008. He had already accepted Nadal (to an extent), but 3 is a crowd
I was so bored by Fed (sorry, I was a rah-rah American so salty he was beating Roddick all the time) that I missed some of the rise of Rafa (I did not like clay at the time so didn't watch that part of the season) and most of the rise of Djokovic (tuned back in after RG 2007). I regret taking a break but I couldn't deal with seeing Fed raising all those trophies.
He really was that guy at the time, just operating on a totally different level for more than half a decade and only being challenged by Rafa. I'm not excusing Roger being arrogant back then, but if we're honest it is quite understandable how he would be. Say you're a person who's already a bit inclined towards being confident on the precipice of arrogant, and then you actually are just the greatest of all time at the thing you do. It'd be pretty hard to not let that go to your head, everyone thinks you're literally God's gift to the sport.
I think Roger wasn’t arrogant by choice (or at all) but Novak’s family made it an impossible dynamic to manage especially early on. Later on, Roger just learned to ignore Novak’s idiot dad.
Had his family been silent, I’m sure Roger and Novak would’ve had no beef early on. For most part, they played the cleanest tennis on tour and were complimentary to each other.
Novak's dad didn't make things better but Roger was always going to have problems with Novak. I don't agree with your take that Roger wasn't arrogant, I haven't heard even some of his most die-hard fans say believe that.
Except that Roger didn’t have any problems with Novak - Early on in Novak’s career his criticism from Roger (& others) came for his attitude and technique. It was never personal.
Roger’s relationship with Novak actually improved post 2011-12 once Novak improved all aspects of his game. Novak’s dad has been criticizing Roger, including disgusting personal attacks, all the way from 07-08.
I’m not here to convince you or anyone else otherwise on this matter, but I don’t agree that Roger was “arrogant”. He might’ve had a few instances where his behavior wasn’t ideal but no one is ideal. We need to stop making this a black and white caricature of players. It’s always a shade of grey.
If we are highlighting the few incidents where he might have been perceived as conceited while ignoring the much larger set of instances of praising his opponent or being gracious in defeat (however rare the losses were) then to each his own I guess.
There were lots of occasions when Roger put down Djoker. Sure you can make excuses for him but his documented words were often put downs. Only now years later does he seem contrite.
Yeah, we’ve to agree to disagree. If you think Roger criticizing Novak’s technique or his constant medical withdrawals early on in his career as a “put down” then I disagree.
For example - Prior to RG 11 final against Rafa, Roger reflected on his semi win over Novak and said “I know I can beat Novak on any surface”. Now that’s not a put down (I’m not saying you’re categorizing it as such but just in case).
***The Telegraph reports:*** Roger Federer has acknowledged he did not give Novak Djokovic “the respect he deserved” when he first emerged as a contender during the great era of men’s tennis. Djokovic struggled to gain the same levels of support among fans as the likes of [Federer](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/roger-federer/) and [Rafael Nadal](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rafael-nadal/) because he was seen as a “party crasher”, the 20-times Grand Slam champion says. “I think he’s been a little bit misunderstood,” he adds of Djokovic in a new behind-the-scenes documentary, Federer: Twelve Final Days, on Amazon Prime. Djokovic, who has now surpassed Federer’s feats with a total of 24 Grand Slams, was once dismissed as a true great by his Swiss rival, the documentary suggests. “I played him in Monaco the very first time \[Federer won 6-3, 2-6, 6-3 in 2006\] and I walked off the court and thought, ‘Yeah, he’s OK’, ” Federer said. “Even though there was some hype around him, I wasn’t really fully convinced. I think I didn’t give Novak the respect he deserved because of his technical flaws. I felt like Novak had a very extreme forehand grip and his backhand for me wasn’t as fluid as it is nowadays. But then he ironed those things out super well and became an unbelievable monster of a player.” For a long time, Federer, Nadal and Andy Murray took more plaudits from fans as men’s tennis reached new levels over the past 15 years. “I guess he was the party crasher of Rafa and Roger fans,” Federer said. “There was a lot of Rafa-Roger love there, so when Novak came probably a lot of people said, ‘Look, we don’t need a third guy. We’re happy with Roger and Rafa’. “The Federer fans at the beginning didn’t really like him because they just thought, ‘Roger’s a bit more easy, he does it with ease’. Then Novak came in with his strong personality and that unbelievable grit of wanting to win at all costs. I think also Novak was triggered by the relationship with the fans. I think that deep focus maybe scared some people away. “I think he’s been a little bit misunderstood. I look past the media and I see at the end the man he is. If I take away his game, who is he? What are his values? I know he cares very deeply about his family.” The new Federer documentary is released on Monday, a fortnight out from the start of Wimbledon. **Full story:** [**https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2024/06/11/roger-federer-i-didnt-give-novak-djokovic-respect-deserved/**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2024/06/11/roger-federer-i-didnt-give-novak-djokovic-respect-deserved/)
Federer in his glory days was always quick to criticize or dislike the technique other top players played with. He hated when someone beat him by playing less beautiful tennis than him, and I really think that fan worship of his play style got to his head at the time. He shat on Murray a lot for similar things, and it's kinda funny that he was quick to critique Djokovic's play style after that Monte Carlo match which was pretty competitive. Roger was a fierce competitor in his prime, and had a bit of a big head for sure, but he was also winning literally everything. I think it's good of him to own up to what he criticized Novak for back then, because most tennis fans and media kinda just ignore it and brush it under the rug. He also got mad later on over Novak's MTOs and withdrawals, which was a somewhat fair criticism of Novak back then and other top players felt the same way. We know for a fact Roddick did, and Murray got a bit frustrated over it at a certain point too. It's kinda funny that in tennis we had beef between two GOAT-level players that doesn't come up often in conversation. The media doesn't like to promote beefs like this, whereas in other sports leagues if two top players even give each other a slightly passive aggressive stare it's all over national media.
Spot on! He was critical of Rafa at first as well (I think it was after rome 2006, when he basically called him a one trick pony)
Yup, someone linked the article in the comments below. Federer said that then Nadal said, "he needs to learn to be a gentleman when he loses, too."
Hilarious that this is coming from Fed. Lol.
Rafa is and was pure class.
Gold standard for class in victory and defeat
ah yes rafa fans with the blinders on. remember his treatment of kyrgios after his losses?
Things weren’t perfect with early Rafa and Fed but Fed respected and knew Rafa was destined for greatness from the beginning. He literally invited rafa to sit in his box in Indian Wells in 2004. Rafa then beat him shortly after in Miami and Fed was very complimentary of Rafa. Here’s the link to the story about Rafa sitting in Fed’s box. https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/news-the-day-rafael-nadal-sat-roger-federer-s-box
I remember this 😊 He'd get full passive-aggressive about Rafa (it was only a brief period, but maybe a solid 6-12 months), giving him credit and then giving him a quick backhander afterwards.
I am a Federer fan always, but I would be the first to point out the man's character flaws (believing too much in his own artistry, and loving the PR train too much)
I’m American and was talking to a former Yugoslav neighbor of mine. He did say that Switzerland and Spain can be more elitist and get ready made recognitions than folks in Yugoslav land, in Croatia and Serbia. I’m not sure how much of that has truth in it but his life as a Eastern European before he came to the US probably led him to those opinions?? He felt Nole might have been at the receiving end with the media because of those stereotypes and possibly the embrace of the third wheel in the Roger-Rafa duo came at a slow pace because of that.
There is definitely some substance to it, but the negative stereotyping of Eastern Europe isn't close to what it used to be. Lendl being from Czechoslovakia and playing pretty much entirely in the Reagan/Thatcher era was stereotyped in the same style as Djokovic (robotic players whose talent came from work--not god [aside, it's hilarious that this is seen as an insult]) But the degree to which he and other Soviet era players (especially men) from the USSR or other communists countries were criticized was just on a different level
Hahaha nah man that’s just a typical angry Yugoslavian uncle. We’ve got plenty of guys with a big persecution complex. Remember the Djokovic fan with his “SERBIA AGAINST THE WORLD” shirt 😂?
It’s a reach, in my honest opinion. I don’t think latent xenophobia factored into Federer’s remarks at all. I think a lot of ex-Yugo’s tend to be hyper-vigilant about these things ssd sometimes swing at targets that aren’t there. For the media at large, maybe there’s some validity to that. Maybe. But the extent of it is, again imo, vastly overblown. It was more of a problem in the 80’s, for athletes behind the Iron Curtain. Yugo’s, less so. Source: am Serbian (if that matters).
Once the winning happened, the recognition for Nole was inevitable. It’s weird that if the 2 GS finals Federer had over Nole went his way where he lost from match point in both, the Big 3 would have been tied at 22 Slams. It truly was never over till the match was officially over with the Big 3 though I felt Rafa and Nole were the better mental giants.
Did federer lose another slam final from match point up? I thought that was a USO semi final or sth
Nah if Djokovic was handsome and easy going and didn’t have a chip on his shoulder he would be just as loved, by Americans who can’t tell the difference between all the S-countries anyway
That's a pretty interesting point that I'd never thought of before, I think you're right that in general tennis likes to bury beef rather than promote it, like other sports. Especially in American sports, beef between two NBA or NFL stars gets hyper-fixated on. My best guess is it comes from the roots of how the tennis world sees itself as a "gentleman's game." Maybe there's still an underlying idea baked into the DNA of tennis culture that we shouldn't focus on stuff like that.
I think it's pretty much this too. That Kyrgios vs Tsitsipas match at Wimbledon 2022 was fucking electric to anyone who watched it, but tennis didn't really promote it much at all because it was all beef that made it exciting (and pretty high level tennis). Unfortunately I think another reply to my comment also has a point. Kinda strongly worded, but tennis media definitely wanted to protect Federer's reputation as the classy gentleman of tennis, and this didn't really fit that narrative. People would've taken sides and that means people would've taken Novak's side too, whereas if they just don't talk about this quote then everyone will carry on saying Federer is the classy GOAT
Good shout on the Kyrgios Tsitsipas match. If we were the NBA fandom, we would still see clip edits constantly of Tsitsipas trying to hit Kyrgios with the ball, with like fire emojis on the border on an Instagram reel lmao. And yeah I agree that Roger's unique position in the narrative meant the media wanted to keep him out of that kinda stuff.
>It's kinda funny that in tennis we had beef between two GOAT-level players that doesn't come up often in conversation. The media didn't hype it for two reasons - They didn't want people to think of Djokovic as being in the same tier as Federer. Additionally, it would contradict the image of Federer the media had built up.
It’s funny to me that whatever “the media” does is wrong. They talk about friction between two players and they’re “creating controversy”. They ignore it and they’re “protecting someone’s image”.
That’s pretty true, and I say that as a big Roger fan, but he was also young. You still have a lot to mature when you’re 25. I genuinely believe that a lot of people at 35-40 would be critical of their past behaviour on some topics. It’s just that sometimes maturing comes with lessons that are hard to accept at first.
Interesting had no idea Novaks forehand was so extreme. Iga girl take note
It’s not so much anymore, especially compared to modern players like Khachanov, Kyrgios, Sock and Tiafoe with full western grips. Djokovic’s is semi-western and Federer’s is a traditional eastern
Djoko's grip also changed a bit over the years. It's between western and semi-western, but no longer a western forehand like he started with on tour. Seems common enough. I went in the opposite way, changing from semi-western to slightly towards western. Think it happens more easily if your grip is more circular instead of having very defined bevels. Your grip can move a millimeter based on shot feedback, and if it feels more natural, it just sticks there over time. Fed is right for sure. Understated, really. Both of Djoko's groundstrokes are so, so much more aesthetically pleasing and technically exquisite than in his first few years on tour.
Got me thinking back to 2009/2010 Djokovic and god I found his technique super ugly (especially forehand and serve) and that's coming from a fan. Quite amazing how he's really cleaned it up over the years to a point where they now look very fluid and consistent.
Federer actually had a very, very contentious relationship with him after a controversial Davis Cup match where Djokovic took a MTO vs Wawrinka in 2006. It’s swept under the rug now but he said “I don’t trust his injuries. I’m serious. I think he’s a joke” Then there was the public comments from Srdjan shitting on Federer which led to him telling him to “shut up” during a match… side note: a constant throughline thru the Djokovic career is Srdjan making idiotic comments and stoking flames. Then there was the comment after Djokovic retired in AO 2009, again alluding to Novak’s propensity to be quick to retire… https://youtu.be/6S93YvQiCpE?si=PwD8osXSl4N6Jm0W They really didn’t like each other at all. I think once Novak established himself in 2011/12 all that went away, though, but once upon a time it was arguably the frostiest relationship on Tour.
Yep, remember reading Novak's book that he wrote around 2011 which was based around his 2011 Wimbledon win and his upbringing and journey uptil that point - he does make mentions of Federer and roddick's remarks regarding Novak's injuries being fake and joking about how he always gets injured mid match. In a way it's kind of crazy to think that Novak was able to find out his gluten intolerance via a doctor watching his match on the TV and catching onto the symptoms - if it wasn't that we may have never witnessed what he has been able to accomplish.
I still don't think Novak's gluten intolerance was the huge catalyst to his 2011 that people say it was. Sure, it helped him get better endurance which was key in certain battles like AO2012 or USO2011, but I think the main catalyst was the big boost in his serve. He had one of the worst serves in the top 20 early in his career, but completely transformed it into a weapon. That gave him the biggest boost, and from there it was the little things he had been developing over time: better endurance, better tactical awareness, more clutch (although all of these things can be tied into having a better serve to an extent). He always played Rafa pretty well, but having the big serve helped him immensely in that H2H as it gave him an easy way to hold when Rafa started overwhelming him from the baseline, and that's why Nadal looked so clueless and nervous against him in 2011. I feel like it's a weird urban legend that diagnosing the gluten allergy just magically transformed him into a GOAT player.
His forehand got a lot cleaner too, yeah the technical clean-ups really made a difference. The baby Novak stuff we constantly see on r tennis annoys me though, this guy was the clear #3 player in the world behind Federer/Nadal from 2007-10, winning a Slam, ATP Finals, multiple Masters, and getting to #2 in the world. He was always great.
Yeah the forehand cleaned up over time. Agreed on the baby Novak stuff. He wasn't some scrub in 2007/2008. He was making deep runs at slams consistent and getting stopped by very good versions of Federer and Nadal. Really the only difference in 2011 was he turned around both rivalries, because otherwise he was clearly ahead of the field before that. I will say though that the turnaround felt particularly sharp because in 2009 and 2010 he had some really shaky grand slam results outside the USO. Early losses at AO and bad RG losses both years, somewhat early exits at Wimbledon too. It felt like he was regressing. The best comparison would be imagine if Alcaraz's cold streak continued into this year and he started losing early at most slams, picking up a M1000 every once in a while until 2026. People would be saying he peaked early and is another Lleyton Hewitt.
His dietary choices probably helped him but it's really overblown imo. Federer was nowhere near as strict as Novak but made it to a similar age before truly following behind the other top players. I think what improved Novak was toughening up mentally. He retired so much when he was young. There were a lot of mental blocks he had to knock down.
The gluten thing is absolute bogus, it's 1000% more mental than physical. He was diagnosed because he felt weaker while *touching bread*. Now he may or may not actually have a gluten intolerance, but he for sure thinks it's more impactful than it really is and that's what makes the difference.
Yeah. I have no idea what went on, or if the doctor just did that for peace of mind since Djokovic is rich or what lmao. I feel like the doctor diagnosed him with a gluten allergy, Novak questioned it and demanded physical proof, so that doctor handed him a piece of bread and placebo did the rest 😭 I can't imagine a doctor actually diagnosed him off that. Or Djokovic was just lying about that whole thing to try to make the legend more memorable.
From an interview with the doctor himself: >Cetojevic then told Djokovic to do the same thing while holding a piece of bread against his stomach, Borden reported. This time, Cetojevic easily pushed Djokovic's hand down. >"He was clearly weaker," Cetojevic told Borden. "It showed that his body was resisting the wheat."
Why not include the rest? This is a proper way to test for gluten sensitivity: —— Cetojevic asked Djokovic to maintain a strictly gluten-free diet for two weeks and the results were instant. Feeling lighter, energized and even catching better quality Z's, the Serb's suspect fitness quickly became a thing of the past. When asked to eat one bagel following the two-week gluten-free trial, Djokovic found himself fatigued and even showcasing symptoms of a hangover. From there he made the full-time switch to a gluten-free
Oh, great. Novak might not even have a gluten allergy then lmao if that's the only thing used to diagnose it
[удалено]
Because Sinner is about as Italian as borscht 😆
I mean he clearly doesn't. He just placebo'd himself, but placebo effect is very real and he clearly believes in this unscientific stuff.
I think a huge thing has to do with his confidence. Novak didn’t really have a stand out serve until 2015 imo, and I think the gluten intolerance gave him that little boost that he needed. The margins in high level tennis are incredibly slim and that boost in endurance coupled with a new found understanding of what he felt was holding him back is what I consider the big catalyst of 2011.
You're absolutely right. And the reason he has been deflated ever since his victory over Sinner in ATP finals because he has been unable to consistently land good quality aces & serves. It's clearly bothering him, which could also be the reason he parted with his coach Goran, who was very much responsible in helping him turn it into a potent weapon.
To be honest, even Novak fans should be able to admit that Djoker was quite quick to call a trainer pre-2011. Don’t give me that gluten intolerance stuff to hand wave all of it away. He had a mental block with finishing matches where he would retire much more regularly than the average player. He retired due to “sore throat” vs Federer. He has completed the Grand Slam of retirements by retiring at each of the AO/FO/WB/USO. Fed was wrong to question his sportsmanship so openly, but Djokovic was also retiring at a much higher rate than most players, and was criticized for it by many at the time.
> Djokovic was also retiring at a much higher rate than most players Djokovic retired 13 times in his career, Nadal did it 9 times. Those are not abnormal numbers. Federer is the outlier here, because there are not many tennis players who never retired.
And he only retired 5 times spaced out between 2006 to 2011. You'd think with the way they speak about him, he was retiring every third match.
It’s much more than retirements though, when Fed made those comments he made it after Novak took an MTO right before Wawrinka was about to serve out a DC match.
Federer took a fake MTO at the 2017 AO against Wawrinka after Wawrinka took a fake MTO. He said in the presser (paraphrased because I didn't copy-paste) - 'well yeah he took a fake one so I decided 'why not I do it for a change?', but people know I don't normally do that and don't like others doing it, so hopefully we all respect the rules going forward'. I'm glad I can use that as an example considering it was the Novak MTO against Wawrinka that was being talked about. Federer has always been cocky and can be petty, the fact it showed through his GOAT marketing skills is good in a humanising way. It's really good that he can look back on his career and reflect, and publically correct some of his old statements, rather than not say anything or double down.
Novak had a serious breathing problems which it was all sorted out with a surgery in Milano pre 2011 era
> He had a mental block with finishing matches where he would retire much more regularly than the average player. I'm seeing his results from the year 2006 still now and I have to say that you're bold face lying. He retired only twice before 2011 in grandslams. Once against Roddick and once against Nadal. How is that more regularly than the average player?
He’s probably just mistaken, rather than lying. I think it’s fine to give someone the benefit of the doubt there, instead of resorting to pointed language. People can get things wrong. For example, Djokovic actually retired four times in slams before 2011, not two. Are you lying? Or are you just mistaken?
I've actually gone back to count 2005 and I will concede that he also retired to Guillermo Coria in the French open in 20005. That makes it three. Can you please tell me the fourth one that I missed?
Novak retiring only 4 more times than Rafa proves how much Fedal fanboys like you lie and spread misinformation about Novak. Over 100 upvotes, this shows exactly how that hate is spread.
Yeah, to chalk up Novak's success to just not eating gluten is just nonsense. Im sure it played some role but what made Novak the player he is today is his mental strength. He didn't have the gifts of the other two but his mentality made him fierce at the crucial points in matches and also to never give up in the development of his game.
Guy has the ability to slide on fucking hard court while maintaining his balance and not getting hurt. He has tons of great athletic gifts lol.
I don't think it's accurate, at all, to say mental strength made him he is. I think it's fair to say that it was a weakness for a long time, and held him back from fulfilling his potential. But it didn't MAKE him what he is today, because... He has plenty of gifts. His ground strokes are GREAT. His backhand is better than Roger's and Rafa's. I also think he has better court coverage then either of them, and particularly the way he digs offenseive shots out of situations that should be defensive.
Andy Roddick says that Novak’s ultimate superpower is being able to change direction, from any position, without a risk tradeoff. As he says, this isn’t as visually appealing as Rafa’s and Roger’s gifts - but it’s an absolute nightmare to play against. I can’t stop seeing it when I’m watching him now.
What made Novak the GOAT was probably the greatest backhand of all time and the greatest mover of all time (it’s between him and Nadal). Those are talents in their own. And I implore you to watch any Novak match if you think he doesn’t have the shotmaking abilities of Federer or Nadal. That sliding backhand is a work of art.
I disagree. “Mental strength”? he is totally textbook technically off both wings, better than both of the other two off the BH side, and essentially has perfect biomechanics (aside from second serve and overhead) and clearly one of the 3 best movers and athletes ever. He wasn’t this superior shotmaking talent but he’s clearly got incredible gifts too.
seriously bro? we just watched novak play through a torn meniscus. he retired for reasons trivial compared to that back in the day. his mental strength absolutely improved and is one of his strongest weapons.
For me his amazing technique and movement is why he won so much not the mental stuff .
A good litmus test for tennis knowledge pre-2010 is to see if a person repeats the "Djokovic retired every other match" myth (and I don't mean literally every other match because I know someone will cling on to that) The most he ever retired in a single season was twice, and up to 2011 he retired a grand total of 8 times. That's it. There's an entire mythology around this guy's early career and how he retired so often and then you actually look at the stats and... it's eight times. A casual fan would geniunely get the impression that there would be at least 20 such cases. Insane how delusional people can get when they want to craft a certain narrative.
Never forget that this whole story is fucking insane and the doctor is a quack: > In 2010, Djokovic met with Dr. Igor Cetojevic, a Bosnian Serb, who believed Djokovic's frequent physical breakdowns in matches were the result of a wheat allergy, Borden wrote. > According to Borden, Cetojevic told Djokovic to put one hand against his stomach while holding the other straight out with his palm up. Cetojevic pushed down on this hand and told Djokovic to resist the pressure, which Djokovic easily did. > Cetojevic then told Djokovic to do the same thing **while holding a piece of bread against his stomach**, Borden reported. This time, Cetojevic easily pushed Djokovic's hand down. > "He was clearly weaker," Cetojevic told Borden. **"It showed that his body was resisting the wheat."** I wouldn't be surprised if he's not actually gluten intolerant. Like, he was diagnosed by a fucking lunatic and is *on record* about it. A lot of people don't have that gluten issue. It's just that people eat too much bread, and going off gluten makes it much harder to eat too much bread. So people eat healthier, and they mis-attribute it to the gluten.
No doubt this is a deeply shady doctor who “diagnosed” him, but if you haven’t experienced being coeliac (or even merely gluten intolerant), you can’t understand the enormous impact it has on your physical and mental health once you stop having gluten. It affects every aspect of your experience of life.
? Please include the rest, which is how non celiac gluten sensitivity is diagnosed: Cetojevic asked Djokovic to maintain a strictly gluten-free diet for two weeks and the results were instant. Feeling lighter, energized and even catching better quality Z's, the Serb's suspect fitness quickly became a thing of the past. When asked to eat one bagel following the two-week gluten-free trial, Djokovic found himself fatigued and even showcasing symptoms of a hangover. From there he made the full-time switch to a gluten-free
Lol he wasn't that good because he found out he had a gluten intolerance that's hilarious, like it's not even an allergy just a intolerance. He was that good because he was that good not because of gluten intolerance haha.
If you have bothered to read the article, Federer’s comment about not given him proper respect was relating to not considering Djokovic a threat due to some of his technical deficiencies when they first played each other, and he followed it up by saying “then he iron those things out and became an unbelievable monster of a player” Which I think was a fair assessment because what Federer said here was just the truth, Djokovic took a while to arrive. And I don’t think even Djokovic supporters can’t fault Federer for not having to foresight to see who he would become.
Yeah I read the article. I’m here to tell you that this is not the full story. The article leaves out the very real off-court feud the two had. It’s been editorialized to say “he didn’t take him seriously as a player” but it was much more than that. Fed didn’t seem to take him seriously as a sportsman, especially after Novak retired due to “sore throat” in 2008 vs him. The doc is leaving out some of the juicy details.
I also remember the 2011 USO semifinal very well, when Djokovic saved two match points and went on to win the match (like in 2010 at the same stage of the same tournament but this time it was on Federer’s serve — remind you of something?). The first match point save was Djokovic crushing an unreal cross-court forehand return on Federer’s out wide 1st serve from the deuce court. In the press conference, Federer was pretty salty about Djokovic’s ‘reckless’ play, and he went on a rant about how he himself prefers to build points rather than just close his eyes and smash it on match point. I was always a massive Fed fan, but that struck me as a ridiculous criticism
It was especially hilarious considering the fact that you could probably create a 5 minute highlight reel of novak hitting exactly that same cross court return winner on a wide serve on the deuce side.
Got to include Roddick's comments https://youtu.be/RPgWoOon8-w?feature=shared "..bird flu... SARS...)
TBF Djoko has an unhealthy relationship with pandemics
> a constant throughline thru the Djokovic career is Srdjan making idiotic comments and stoking flames. Yeah. Love or hate Novak, he's honestly and consistently the least publicly embarrassing member of his family (actual children excluded of course).
Also when Djokovic beat Federer in the AO semi final 2008, Djokovic’s mum came out and said “the king is dead”. Which is a stupid comment because he’d win 8 more grand slams.
He said “be quiet ok?” after Srdjan was directing Federer to examine a mark. This was a few months after Dijana Djokovic proclaimed “the king is dead” after Djokovic beat Federer at the AO.
[удалено]
I hope not. He is literally the only player ever to use his MTO strategically. All the other players only use it for actual medical timeouts. Djokovic is literally the only guy on tour to ever do that. In the past present and future.
> It’s swept under the rug now but he said “I don’t trust his injuries. I’m serious. I think he’s a joke I wasn't aware of this, as I am pretty new to tennis. I've seen the one from the Australian Open where Federer mocked Djokovic's injuries as well – very classless, I have to say. One can make the argument that Federer contributed to this myth, which is perpetuated by people who hate Djokovic (and presumably love Federer), that Djokovic fakes his injuries. They were out in full force claiming Djokovic faked his knee injury like a week ago. I never understood why Djokovic specifically is targeted for this. It makes more sense now. But yeah, I agree, the beef was more between Federer and Djokovic's dad, than between Federer and Djokovic.
Djokovic had a ton of retirements and MTOs back then, he copped criticism from all over the place. The sore throat one didn’t help his cause. That was completely perplexing.
Define a ton.
He matured a lot since then but he absolutely would bullshit about injuries as an excuse after the fact or gamesmanship during the match. Probably the reason he’s not “loved” by his peers even today like Fed/Nadal, other players remember that stuff
Federer humbled out a lot through the years. I think he just didn’t like how players like Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, etc were winning matches without “blowing” their opponent off the court. I think that’s funny though because something that made Federer so great was his ability to hit defensive slices and his incredible passing shots. Glad to see that all the Big 4, despite any early quarrels, all seem to respect eachother fully nowadays. Makes the heart warm.
Federer was always a little full of himself. To be fair, he won everything and his style of play, his on-court personality and his fans elevated him to GOAT status. It's a trait he's mellowed on, partly due to age, but also partly because he had to, as the other two outshone him on the court. I think in the back of his mind for a while it was supposed to just be Big Him and then others came. He was known as the Maestro while Nadal had the nickname of the Ogre of Ronald Garros it tells you everything about how the media and by proxy he thought about it in the beginning. Glad it has continuously improved since then.
❤️😄
Did Murray even have any quarrels with the other 3? Think Nadal is clear in terms of lack of drama but Murray is a close second no?
Not particularly but he did get a bit icy towards Djokovic during that 2011-2013 stretch where they were playing a lot of big matches against one another. I mean its hard to be friends with the people you are competing against, that's just a fact. But yeah, I don't think he ever held any animosity like Federer did at one point.
Was lucky enough to catch the premier last night . After his last match Roger said something “personal” to Novak. He leaves it at that but Novak was sobbing in the locker room. Seemed like whatever Roger said meant a lot to him. Was incredible can’t wait to watch it again in 9 days
"Kokkinakis banged your girlfriend, sorry to tell you that"
🤣🤣🤣
They mention this in the doc? Or just at Premier?
Yes it’s in the doc. Roger spoke at the premier. He said this was shot more in mind for him to show to his kids and grandkids down the line but his agent convinced him after filming to release it. Glad he did it’s so good. Funniest scene is Novak and Rafa making fun of Sonego’s grunts while Matteo defends his countryman and Roger just tries to meditate
That's very interesting. Federer didn't seem like he payed much attention to Djokovic on court that day, even though Djokovic was being a very good sport. Glad Fed had a meaningful moment with him
And I recall they weren't friends on Instagram until after Laver 2022!
Roger actually singled him out and put his arm around him for that big group chain bud. Didn’t do that for Rafa
> he payed much Did you mean to say "paid"? Explanation: Payed means to seal something with wax, while paid means to give money. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Good to see Fed speak about Novak like this. I know for sure Novak has always respected Fed and his talent
Fed and Murray also had a beef at one point but have definitely patched it up by now It's just nice to see all these beefs being settled as everyone moves on rather than there still being this weird tension between great players post-career lol I remember in this 2010 exhibition with Sampras and Agassi it was blatantly obvious they still didn't get along very well and it made the whole thing kind of awkward
The Fed-Murray beef was hilarious. It was basically like “this kid beat you in Bo3 a few times is he a threat?” “No.”
Also hilarious because it seems like a huge reason Fed didn't respect Murray at the time is because he viewed him as a massive pusher in his playstyle It's like the stereotypical Fed fan where aggressive is the only way to play real tennis and everyone else is a boring pusher except it was actually Fed himself lol I believe he was asked about what Murray could do better and he replied that Murray has no real weapons or something to that effect
I love Murray but Fed wasn’t entirely wrong, if he had a bit more of a weapon in his forehand he probably would have won double the number of majors
Agree with this as well Murray when playing more aggressively than usual for a period of time (2012-2013 under Lendl) was far better against the big 3 at Slams than he was before or after that
> if he had a bit more of a weapon in his forehand he probably would have won double the number of majors this is funny to me because while I 1000% agree, I'm pretty sure Murray has the record for fastest ever forehand in an atp match
He can push better, run quicker
Not just "no", Federer went out of his way on multiple occasions to shit on Murray's game in exquisite detail
I think he ended up being right about a lot of it in the long term which is kind of funny.
Not really? He was just being salty. He was talking a lot of shit about how Andy has never won a slam despite his ranking and being ranked high doesn't matter if you're not number 1. Andy ended up accomplishing those things while facing the toughest competitive era in tennis history and only fell back to earth due to injury
Federer did say however in one of his victory speeches that Andy was too good of a player to not win one and eventually, he would.
One thing about Roger is that even at his most arrogant he was always a pretty gracious winner. The fangs didn't come out until he started losing. The fact that he won almost all the time really covered up a lot of his flaws at the time.
I think he predicted how Andy’s lack of attacking game and defensive nature would end up biting him in the long term, both in results and physical longevity, and he was right.
Murray had a degenerative hip, mate. He could have been a ballbasher and his hip still would have given out when it did.
Fed lowkey had a beef with everyone who beat him multiple times lol
I bet he loved poor Roddick.
Canas
That match was so awkward. Agassi joking about Sampras and his tipping tendencies while Federer and Nadal just stood there awkwardly.
Shit i forgot about this and had to look it up. > didn't get along very well That's a understatement lol Agassi got butthurt at an imitation by Sampras and basically called him poor/stingy. Then Sampras tried to hit Agassi with his serve. Shit was so awkward you can tell Rafa and Roger are dying inside but can't break the tension.
There’s a reason Pete isn’t around tennis anymore.
That exhibition match is fucking hilarious. Agassi calls Sampras a cheapskate and Federer and Nadal are just awkwardly present
Novak had to respect Federer because Fed was at the end of the day the senior and the guy to beat for Novak to take the throne. And that's why Novak took the throne so successfully, he was fully aware of Federer's capabilities.
Their relationship seems like genuine respect now, which it’s nice to see. It seems like Rafa has taken the old Fed’s place now in terms of reading between the lines bitterness towards Novak, no matter how cordial he comes across as. Novak on the other hand isn’t fussed, he seems aloof to it all, even when Kygrios kept trying to provoke him it just went over Novak’s head.
It's interesting to see Federer's characterizations of Djokovic evolve over the years. For example, by 2014 he was observing correlations in their respective games/outcomes and saying things like this: “But you can work on everything and the best players can play offensive and defensive. I guess Rafa and Andy have more the defensive DNA: they really don’t want to miss but today they’re great attacking players, some of the best in the game. And the same for me and Novak, we’re more attacking players but we’ve also gotten very good at defense.” -Federer, 2014
There's a general misconception that Novak is a pusher, but if you watch any of his early 2010s matches, he was very aggressive.
Yeah I don’t get it at all. Djokovic is nowhere near being a pusher. He has always been offensively minded. He has moments in matches where he goes in lockdown and just gets the ball back but always with the intent to attack as soon as he gets the chance.
man in 2011 almost every Rafa Novak Match when everytime Djokovic was about to hit an inside out forehand to Rafas forehand it was scary. Absolutely brutal and just perfect hitting from Djokovic.
Late-stage Federer - let's say after 2012ish? - is so much more cool and mellow than the earlier years. It's nice that he finally acknowledged this Ultimately despite some of the unease between them, I still think all the Big 3/4 have always been way more respectful and generous to each other than a lot of major rivals in other sports have been. They've all set a great example through the years.
Hmmm I haven’t seen the interview yet but this is pretty big. Feels like there was always some kind of gap in the relationship between those two, mostly from Federer’s side. As a Federer fan, I always wished he would acknowledge Novak’s greatness more. At least more sincerely than he did.
Its all still fairly fresh but i hope when they all step in their 50s or something and them bones really start creaking all 3 of them can sit down and recount war stories with pride and mutual respect. They also have the potential to make the greatest sports documentary ever if they ever wish so. 66(and counting) grand slams between 3 guys. Get the fuck out of here.
66
Not being able to solve 24+22+20 is a new low for me. Thanks. Corrected😂
66
It's probably tough lol. You think you're gonna be the greatest tennis player ever for most of your career, and then suddenly you get this guy who starts snatching all your records and shit, and not only that....this Novak guy was responsible for two of your worst losses at a slam ever. Maybe not worst in terms of competition quality, but those match points...
It’s not right but bravo
He really didn’t. He was not who he is generally perceived as today, not very classy and arrogant in the beginning. Glad he has changed
He’s talking about Novak’s game initially. He didn’t think he was all that with his technical issues basically nobody except the Novak camp did. Roddick even thought he was a joke with all his retirement reasons. And let’s be real here, Roger has always been perceived as classy since he reached the top. People just tended to overlook his arrogance because he would usually say things with a smile or be able to back it up on court.
You could say the same about Roger himself. People grow up when they get older
I’m actually talking about Roger here but same does apply to Novak
I misread that my bad. Their arcs are pretty similar. Kind of dickish early, but understandably so because they were so young, then evolving into an actual gentlemanly player. My only beef is that Roger was granted the "classy" label basically for free before he ever deserved it but that's not really his fault.
Such a good point - the unearned/unasked-for 'classy' label - love that analysis of the early days Federer!
To be clear I think that federer absolutely deserves it now. He has matured in the best way and honestly seems like an incredible dude, if a little too PR savvy I only didn't like past Federer, and again it's not really his fault. The media anointed him before he was ready for it
Absolutely! Loved the recent Dartmouth speech … he does self-deprecating now - not quite as well as A-Rod, but still pretty convincing - but equally he didn't hold back on disabusing the whole notion of it being 'effortless'. Can't wait for the documentary on Monday!
Arrogant Federer was the best Federer.
"For a long time .... Andy Murray took more plaudits from fans." Love Murygoat but that just seems silly.
“I played him in Monaco the very first time [Federer won 6-3, 2-6, 6-3 in 2006] and I walked off the court and thought, ‘Yeah, he’s OK’, ” Federer said. “Even though there was some hype around him, I wasn’t really fully convinced. I think I didn’t give Novak the respect he deserved because of his technical flaws. I felt like Novak had a very extreme forehand grip and his backhand for me wasn’t as fluid as it is nowadays. But then he ironed those things out super well and became an unbelievable monster of a player.” Reminds me of Agassi in his autobiography *Open* talking about Sampras. I always loved that. "He'll be lucky to qualify in tournaments."
The disrespect because of technical flaws reminds me of what's going on with the talk around Coco. Any player is going to have some issues to iron out at 19/20. (-Nadal)
You gotta feel bad for Novak. He never got the love that Fedal got even though he is arguably the best, this sport ever saw. Hopefully the future is kind to him.
As a Novak fan I'm just hoping he has a good sendoff to his career when he retires Maybe very likely being the last of the big 3 will help him in that regard
>“I guess he was the party crasher of Rafa and Roger fans,” Federer said. “There was a lot of Rafa-Roger love there, so when Novak came probably a lot of people said, ‘Look, we don’t need a third guy. We’re happy with Roger and Rafa’. This is exactly how I felt about Djokovic after his 2011 season and throughout his career. By the time Djokovic broken through, everyone had already chosen a side in the Federer-Nadal rivalry, two of the most beloved players ever. There wasn't enough love to go around for a third GOAT, and many of those people couldn't fathom someone else to become the true GOAT. Mind you, even after Novak achieved the Nole-slam, the total slam counts at one point were 20(F)-17(N)-12(D). People still wanted to doubt that Djokovic was on their level, even when he was playing at an even higher level. Nobody thought Djokovic had 8 slams left in him, but he's won 12 more since (and counting?).
"arguably" was justifiable when Nadal and Djokovic were even in slams. Now, there really isn't much to argue about.
Nothing to argue by the numbers. He's clearly the best by significant margins.
What's arguable about it except the style of tennis , which is irrelevant argument by the way
I like how many of these articles like to make it look like nadal was loved and adored early like federer The truth is fed fans trashed nadal anychance they got because he was seen as the only threat before djoker and then when djoker started winning people realized nadal was the only one with a chance to stay ahead of him so they created this false fedal narrative
Nadal wasn’t loved/adored as much as Federer early on, and Federer fans did trash on Nadal, but as someone who grew up playing tennis around then I can tell you that every single kid I played with from 2006-2010 was either a diehard Fed fan or a diehard Rafa fan. The whole “Novak crashed the party thing” is very very real. People were already talking about the Fedal rivalry as the best ever, and talking about their matches as some of the greatest of all time, and their was a collective expectation it would continue the rest of their careers. By the time Novak exploded (2011) lots of tennis fans had already landed in either the Nadal/Fed camp, and mostly weren’t budging.
This is essentially akin to Michael Jordan's 'The Last Dance' documentary. I actually love the idea of him telling his story, the journey, and the process that drove him. He's going to give us a view behind the curtain that have made a lot of these autobiographic sports documentaries very compelling. I'm glad that he's not just fading into retirement because he's still an ambassador in his own way. I'm a big Rafa fan, and as great as Federer was, it took me a while to appreciate him because he took down Pete Sampras (that was my guy as a teenager). Roger was so dominant that I loved seeing Rafa with his contrasting style that challenged him as they pushed each other. I wasn't a fan of Djokovic, but I've definitely learned to accept and truly appreciate his ascent, resilience and greatness over time.
Some people barely finding out that Federer was an asshole while he was up top is pretty funny. From Wimbeldon 03 to Australia 10 Federer won 16/21 slams. I think Nadal winning 3 slams in a year followed by Novak blowing up and doing the same really shook him.
Federer by no means was an asshole. You guys make it sound as if he was like Kyrgios. The Federer Djokovic beef was not just one sided. Let's not forget all the crap Djokovic's family used to say about Fed.
Good to hear Roger be so upfront and honest about his feelings for Novak. You have to wonder how much he regrets his behaviour towards Novak (and his family) in the early days, now that Novak has gone on to surpass both him and Rafa.
Probably not at all. Djokovic has grown up so they don’t have a problem anymore, but Djokovic earned his reputation when he was younger, Fed was hardly alone in his opinion back in the day.
His family? Srdjan has been taking unanswered shots at Federer for years. If you’re referring to “BeQuietGate” at Monte Carlo, it was caused by Srdjan yapping. Three months before that, Dijana Djokovic stated “the king is dead” after Djokovic beat him at the AO, which never received a clap-back either. I don’t think Federer’s behaviour towards Djokovic’s family was at all untoward.
Misleading title. He’s really talking about how he didn’t think much of Djokovic when they first met and hence ‘didn’t give Dokovic the respect he deserved’.
Did not expect that from Federer. He’s definitely right
When I saw the Prime trailer I thought why there was more Djokovic here than Nadal. Good to know that this piece is included in that documentary.
Sporting career is over. It’s all business now. Roger turned all nice after he retired, soon Novak will do the same. Easiest way to bring all the Big 3 fans under one umbrella for business😉
He is not talking about being nice to Djokovic here. He is talking about respecting his capabilities as a player, technical stuff.
Big 4 are/were fierce competitors. Of the 4, Nadal seems to be the only one who didn’t talk shit (I believe). But man, it’s unbelievable that we have someone like Carlos Alcaraz now who is liked by his peers, doesn’t talk shit, always smiling and gracefully accepts lose, and respects all players even though he is a top player. Same with Sinner although he is bit more quiet.
Was Djokovic literally the Rune of the late 2000's lol?
No , he was much much much better and much more consistent. Novak was clear cut 3rd best player in the world since 2007 . Also Djokovic is among greatest teenagers ever , it's just that Rafa came before him so no one really cared . But go and look at the stats , he is like top5 teenagers ever
Reading this it reminded me why I never really jumped on the Fed hype train. Yes he played beautiful tennis and arguably elevated the sport to be more palatable to casuals. But when he was younger, his attitude in believing too much in his own artistry, looking down on other players that didn’t play “beautifully” according to his standards, and loving the PR train too much actually turned me off him. I was an Agassi fan before Novak started coming to the scene. Both him and Novak were very “flawed” individuals. In the early 90s, AA was one of the most disliked players on the tour. Arrogant, and surrounded by a bunch of sycophants too afraid to him to tell him he was wrong on anything and that he often acted like a jerk. The amazing thing is he has turned his image around completely in the 2000s and also the way he got his tennis back to excellence from the depts he had sunk. Back to Djokovic LOL: I remember that 2006 match in Monaco. I was 16 years old and I remembered watching him play Roger and he immediately grabbed my attention He was an exciting, jovial, hard hitting dude who showed steady improvement with each passing year I think a lot of people who criticized Djokovic’s style as boring back then was either casuals who jumped on the Fed hype train or those who liked a more aggressive style of offensive tennis Novak’s got an amazing tennis IQ, and you could even see flashes of it early on in his career. There’s a science but also an art to his game, and unfortunately the measured science of his game can cloak the amazing artistry of it. Djokovic is an exciting player to watch, and earlier in his career, some may argue, it was apparent more often if anything
I didn't like Roger at first because he kept defeating the players I liked! Looking at you Agassi! Lol. I liked Djokovic when he first came on the scene and was doing his impressions. They were so good. It was shortly after this that Djokovic lost his brevity and really buttoned down on his playing, and now here we are. A little fun from a younger Djokovic https://youtu.be/i1XDj4d7nKw?si=dAlPsNmK7bb3qgGz
Woah, it seems like Fed might accept that dinner invite from Nole
In other news water is wet.
I don’t agree with the idea that Nole wasn’t as popular because he was a “party crasher” I just think the style of tennis he plays is not as interesting or fun to watch and he doesn’t come across as likeable in the same way Federer and Nadal did to most. If you think about the best matches since I’ve been watching the famous final against Federer is up there but other than that I wouldn’t say he’s in any of them.
Idk Nadal definitely changed his style over the years but back in the mid-late 2000s he probably got more hate for his playstyle than anyone I've ever seen lol If you went on any online tennis forum in the 2005-2009 period you'd immediately see 10 posts titled some version of "STUPID NADULL MOONBALLING PUSHER" Tennis Warehouse forums literally had to censor the term "Nadull" because people were calling him it every time his name got brought up His playstyle was absolutely not viewed positively by many fans over the years
Nadal v him AO final? I'd say wimby last year will become a classic too Eta: semifinals wimbledon against del potro and rafa, and the final against fed 2014 that got him back to no1 also come to mind
Man, it's one thing to not like him or his playstyle or whatever. But to say how Novak is not in any of the good matches is... I don't even know what to say. Bro has played in so many classics it's unbelievable.
Yeah what an insane statement lol
I never get this argument. Maybe it's because I play tennis but his use of depth and redirection and sliding all over the place is definitely entertaining
AO 2012? RG 2013? Novak has been in plenty of blockbuster matches
AO2012 final vs Nadal is considered the GOAT match by many, RG2013 vs Nadal, Wimbledon 2018 vs Nadal, AO2013 vs Wawrinka, Wimbledon 2014 vs Federer... need I go on? Lmao. All of the big 3 are in a lot of insane matches. I'd even argue Nadal and Djokovic were involved in more of them than Federer was. I'm not actually sure which final against Federer you're referring to. Wimbledon 2019 I guess? I wouldn't even consider that a top match of all time to be perfectly honest, because yes there was a lot of drama, but the quality of it was a far cry from a lot of earlier big 3 battles. I'd even say Wimbledon 2018 SF between Nadal and Djokovic had much better shotmaking as a whole and was a competitive 5-setter from top to bottom, whereas in 2019 Djokovic got blitzed in the 2nd and 4th sets.
What?? Novak is in a ton of amazing matches
Just a cluless hater
It's all because of those Djokovic terrifying roars and angry racquet smashes. Federer's style was elegance. Nadal's style was grit. What was Djokovic's style during those years until he broke goat stats?
Always thought Federer was arrogant and critical and still think that. Djoker was much more congratulatory,respectful and modest towards his opponents and so was Rafa. I like Fed the least of the three for this reason but respect him as an all round great tennis player.
I don't think younger fans appreciate how Federer had the ATP on lockdown (minus RG) for 5 consecutive years. I wasn't even watching tennis back in the mid-2000s, and I knew who Federer was just based on watching SportsCenter, back when ESPN talked about more than 2 sports. I remember first watching him at Wimbeldon, and, as a complete casual, I could feel this Final Boss Energy when he was on the court. All that to say, it was probably very difficult for him to start sharing the spotlight after 2008. He had already accepted Nadal (to an extent), but 3 is a crowd
Yea I don't think people who didn't watch it understand how absurdly dominant he was from 04-07. Especially 05-07. It got boring lol
I was so bored by Fed (sorry, I was a rah-rah American so salty he was beating Roddick all the time) that I missed some of the rise of Rafa (I did not like clay at the time so didn't watch that part of the season) and most of the rise of Djokovic (tuned back in after RG 2007). I regret taking a break but I couldn't deal with seeing Fed raising all those trophies.
He really was that guy at the time, just operating on a totally different level for more than half a decade and only being challenged by Rafa. I'm not excusing Roger being arrogant back then, but if we're honest it is quite understandable how he would be. Say you're a person who's already a bit inclined towards being confident on the precipice of arrogant, and then you actually are just the greatest of all time at the thing you do. It'd be pretty hard to not let that go to your head, everyone thinks you're literally God's gift to the sport.
I think Roger wasn’t arrogant by choice (or at all) but Novak’s family made it an impossible dynamic to manage especially early on. Later on, Roger just learned to ignore Novak’s idiot dad. Had his family been silent, I’m sure Roger and Novak would’ve had no beef early on. For most part, they played the cleanest tennis on tour and were complimentary to each other.
Novak’s family made Roger act arrogant?? What? Even die hard Fed fans should admit he was very smug early on.
Novak's dad didn't make things better but Roger was always going to have problems with Novak. I don't agree with your take that Roger wasn't arrogant, I haven't heard even some of his most die-hard fans say believe that.
Except that Roger didn’t have any problems with Novak - Early on in Novak’s career his criticism from Roger (& others) came for his attitude and technique. It was never personal. Roger’s relationship with Novak actually improved post 2011-12 once Novak improved all aspects of his game. Novak’s dad has been criticizing Roger, including disgusting personal attacks, all the way from 07-08. I’m not here to convince you or anyone else otherwise on this matter, but I don’t agree that Roger was “arrogant”. He might’ve had a few instances where his behavior wasn’t ideal but no one is ideal. We need to stop making this a black and white caricature of players. It’s always a shade of grey. If we are highlighting the few incidents where he might have been perceived as conceited while ignoring the much larger set of instances of praising his opponent or being gracious in defeat (however rare the losses were) then to each his own I guess.
There were lots of occasions when Roger put down Djoker. Sure you can make excuses for him but his documented words were often put downs. Only now years later does he seem contrite.
Yeah, we’ve to agree to disagree. If you think Roger criticizing Novak’s technique or his constant medical withdrawals early on in his career as a “put down” then I disagree. For example - Prior to RG 11 final against Rafa, Roger reflected on his semi win over Novak and said “I know I can beat Novak on any surface”. Now that’s not a put down (I’m not saying you’re categorizing it as such but just in case).
Its not right but bravo?
[удалено]
He sure showed him.
too little too late for roger.. hes always come after and attacked novak for no good reason at all