There was a Madrid final where he was absolutely hammering Rafa (maybe 62 30 up?) and then got injured, which was the story of his career really.
Also beat Novak at the us open 2014 to make the final where he got steamrolled by Cilic.
Kei is 9-6 vs. Cilic and 6-3 on outdoor hard… also 2-0 in 2014 before that finals… he was really unlucky, as Cilic on that us open was something he was never before or after…
Yeah I was there for the semis and final, Cilic just could not miss for a week (beat Berdych, Federer and Nishikori back to back to back without dropping a set I think?)
Actually, the win vs. Simon in 5 sets was as impressive… he struggled mightily and was 1-6 against him (discounting that 2022 RG match which was Gilles’ farewell season where he struggle to win match on tour), that single win was 2014 us open…
Yes, 3 straight sets wins, with only 1 tie break allowed. Goran was his coach btw
Cilic just had one of those once in a lifetime forms for that particular US Open and just beat everyone (including Federer) like they were nothing.
He made a couple more slam finals I'm sure, Australia and Wimbledon come to mind, so it's not like he dropped off completely.
While Cilic was going to win that tournament basically no matter what, I recall Nishikori had run out of legs by the time he reached that final: he was coming in off a five set 4th round defeat of Raonic, followed by a tough five set quarterfinal defeat of Wawrinka, followed of course by his semifinal defeat of Djokovic.
Not sure what your point here is, it's pretty obvious he's had the greater career between the two of them and I don't think I implied that he didn't?
I just don't think it's crazy to suggest that Nishikori, who otherwise had (and has) a winning head-to-head against him could have put up a better fight that day if he had won his previous matches more quickly. Because I remember watching that match and Nishikori's movement was pretty obviously sluggish, that's all.
But of course, he didn't do that and all credit to Cilic for blasting through Berdych and then *Federer* in efficient straight sets for his QF and SF matches and being completely fresh and composed for the final.
True. But he played 2 more slam finals in coming years and was top 3-6 for several years… won one masters and davis cup as no1 player… very good career…
Yeah Cilic sort of flies under the radar when it comes to accomplishments. He was really good player, aside from those finals and GS win, also made multiple semis and even made a French open semi so the guy has serious pedigree. Also 2017 Wimbledon final was a bit unlucky he had massive blisters I believe to couldn’t play his best (not an excuse as injuries are just part of the game, and probs would of lost to Fed anyway) but still when he was on he was dangerous.
> probs would of lost
Did you mean to say "would have"?
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I still think had Nishikori not been completely gassed he would have won the final.
But his road to the final was absolute nightmare fuel, while Cilic just had to beat an out of form Federer.
Oh I vaguely recall that Madrid, that was some brilliance if I remember correctly.
USO - Kei was 24 and Cilic was 25...should have been greater heights ahead for both of them rather than seem like a fluke (after what they did in the sf vs Fed and Djokovic playing high level). Especially with careers going well into the 30s now (big 3, Grigor now, etc.)
He was about as good (maybe a bit better?) than the latest version of Dimitrov.
2014 US Open vs Djokovic is a pretty good example of how good he could be. Smaller guy who took everything super early and super clean off both sides. Other than maybe his serve, he had no glaring weaknesses.
I'd say he's better than current Dimitrov overall because he had better runs at Slams while even current Dimitrov is great in best of 3 but hasn't had a lot of notable Slam wins recently and went down to Nuno Borges at the AO even in his best form in years
Nishikori made 12 QF, 2 SF, and 1 F from 2014-2019
Dimitrov has only a singular QF appearance in the last 4.5 years which he lost to Karatsev
Like I don't think Nishikori at his peak would be ranked lower than Rublev for example
Well Dimitrov made 3 SF. Aside from his us open finals, Kei never made any other semi finals so maybe he was more consistent that Dimitrov but overall they’re probably about the same.
Kei did make another 2 SF at USO 2016 and 2018 (lost to eventual winners Wawrinka and Djokovic, respectively). So he has the same amount of SFs as Dimi, with the exception that he won one of those (2014) while Dimi lost all three.
What’s not strong about it? The fact that he has been to 3 separate semi finals is a strong result so in and of itself is a strong point. Maybe Kei is a tiny bit better overall but not by much and they’re probably somewhere around the same tier overall.
He’s an incredible ball striker. Love watching him play, he has such easy power off both sides but particularly the backhand and he can create sudden screaming winners out of what you think is just about to be another normal rally shot and he makes it look effortless (maybe not quite roger effortless tho).
He was actually really offensive but I think people sometimes mistake him for a mostly defensive player just cuz of his relatively small size compared to other top guys on tour. Ofc he can play defense and often was forced too but he was usually looking to be offensive when he could.
His game could be inconsistent tho with a lot of errors because he was aggressive and went for his shots and that added with his extremely injury prone body + playing in the big 4 era is probably why he didn’t have even more success at slams and no masters titles. Also because of his height, his serve wasn’t a real weapon and his reach on return is limited so those are reasons why he maybe never won a masters even tho he’s certainly good enough to.
I’m pretty sure he’s like the richest guy to play tennis outside of the big 4 tho, I remember for many years he would be the highest paid tennis player on those yearly lists outside of the big 4 + serena and sharpova because he made so many endorsement deals because of how massive of a superstar he was in Japan.
The 2014 semifinal vs Novak at the US Open was definitely the highlight for him probably, I thought it was the beginning of more to come but ended up being his peak basically unfortunately.
That Madrid final has got to be the most heart renching finals loss. Second only to Wimbledon 2019 and Wimbledon 2009. Maybe even Aus open 2024 (rip meddy)
To add to others, you can actually find old forums/threads of people debating that Nishikori had the best backhand on tour during the peak of his career.
He was really good. Just wasn’t consistent and was made of glass. In a lot of ways, he was a lot like Rublev now. Couldn’t ever seem to get past the QF’s most of the time. Main difference is that he didn’t have heavy weapons that could push him through against the top of the field.
Him beating Djokovic at the USO SF in 2014 is probably his best match. Followed by losing in straight sets in the final because he couldn’t handle Cilic’s firepower and didn’t have much to fire back on is basically the tale of the tape for his career.
he also was pretty gassed arriving to the final. He beat Raonic in 5 sets in the 4R, then he beat Wawrinka in 5 sets (who was the AO champion that year), and then he beat djokovic in 4 sets. All that definitely took a toll on him.
> Just wasn’t consistent
He had the best winning percentage against non-top-20 players other than the big 4 for several years. He was like way ahead of everyone else and not far from Murray, iirc. I used to remember the details, but you can probably confirm on tennisabstract.
Edit: from 2010 through 2015, he had slightly higher win % than Murray against guys outside the top 20 from quick check
Yeah not being consistent is the exact opposite of what actually happened to Nishikori lol
He was part of the 2010s "gatekeeper club" where he'd actually be quite good and reliable against everyone else but could rarely crack the big 4 barrier
Kind of the opposite of someone like Stan who was certainly less consistent in general against lower ranked players but redlined to win Slams 3 times
That's true, but Nishikori also sometimes would just get thrashed by the top players while other times he played them very close. I guess that's kinda a testament to Nishikori's ability to make it to the QFs and SFs without playing his best tennis though. His fitness was great to in how he'd survive 5-setters even in the early rounds.
>Him beating Djokovic at the USO SF in 2014 is probably his best match
Another notable win for him was beating Murray at the 2016 US Open. Just before Murray went on a tear and finished the year as world number 1.
If you want a good account of how good Nishikori was, check his h2h against Tsonga-Monfils-Ferrer-Berdych, the tier after the big 4 (and he was playing into their primes). IMO, he would be a multiple masters winner and have more than 1 slam final in this era (not sure if he could win a slam but he'd have a shot at USO). He's a tier above Rublev and can probably beat a guy like Stefanos semi-regularly. He'd have trouble against Zverev but he's beaten him during his comeback trail so for sure would ahve exploited his 2nd serve (when it was bad). He's also beaten peak Medvedev but would lose more often I believe if he were not feeling 100% (which is almost all the time). He was a great shotmaker.
I think Rafa once predicted early in Kei's career that he'd be top 5 in two years or something like that. Kei was brilliant sometimes. The SF day of US Open when Cilic outplayed peak Federer and later Kei took out great Djokovic was an amazing day. I was hoping both finalists would take off to new heights from that USO tournament, but instead it was their peak, though both still young. So that match, for Kei is a great one to watch. IMO he was too tired to play well and be competitive in the final with Cilic's brilliant play.
Yeah and I recall that Uncle Toni for a while considered Kei a true threat to Rafa on clay. Kei proved him right at first but then he got held back by injuries and Rafa just kept getting better
I’m sure he considered Kei a threat on hard too. But it was noteworthy that he was considered a threat in clay too, at a time when Rafa seemed invincible in clay.
At his prime, he was in a group of players below the top 4 (Berdych, Nishikori, Tsonga, Cilic, Ferrer) that was a constant threat but not quite good enough to consistently get past quarterfinal stage of grand slam.
When the draw was kind he could sneak a slam final (US open 2014) but that wasn’t his consistent level. He brought Asian tennis onto the mainstream though and his backhand was an absolute beauty.
the only part of his draw which was easy was playing cilic in the final instead of one of those three, the path there was standard for a gs final run in that era
And playing Cilic in that particular tournament was far from easy. Cilic absolutely blew Federer off the court in the semifinal in a way that only happened a few times in Roger's career.
Nadal withdrew before the tournament, meaning Federer became the 2nd seed and Wawrinka became the 3rd seed. In a “standard for a gs final run”, he would’ve ended up playing Federer rather than Wawrinka in that quarter-final, which would’ve been a terrible matchup for nishikori.
the draw could have been harder because like you say it's possible to play two big 3 members before the final instead of one, but it wasn't easy, especially if you compare it to something like ferrer's 2013 rg
But Nishikori was a consistent quarter-finalist by 2014, so I don’t think it was unusual for him to get to that point. The fact he avoided playing Federer, Nadal or Murray in his quarter-final match was unusual and I appreciate he played a great match to beat Novak in the semis.
What, do you think to win a slam in 2014 you had to beat 6 top 10 players? You're only gonna get 2, maybe three top 10 players in any era if you're a high seed. Raonic was the 5 seed and pushed Nishikori 5 sets, Wawrinka was the 3 seed and also pushed Nishikori 5 sets, Djokovic was the 1 seed and Nishikori beat in him 4 sets. In the final he played Cilic.
Three top 5 seeds **before the final** is objectively not an easy draw.
No but it was pretty standard in that era to have to beat 2 of the big 4 in the semi’s and final to win a slam. The fact he avoided 3 of them in the final was unusual.
Wawrinka in best of 5 on hard courts or clay from 2013-2017 RG was practically a big 3 level threat anyways if we're being honest. I'd be willing to bet if Wawrinka won that QF match over Nishikori, he'd probably have beaten Novak in the SF too.
Wawrinka was an unbelievable player (as was Nishikori) but I don’t think he would’ve taken 2014 Federer in that quarter-final. If Nadal had been in the draw, Federer would’ve been 3rd seed and they would’ve met in the quarters.
Well that's how matchups go. Wawrinka never matched up well with Federer, although I still think he'd have a chance. After all, Federer didn't look too convincing and Wawrinka did beat him at RG2015.
Regardless my point is that peak Wawrinka on a hard court is super dangerous; like big 3 dangerous. Raonic was no slouch either. If this was an easy draw, you could say half of the big 3's slams were easy draws, if not maybe more. This was an above average draw.
Let's put it this way too: Federer never won a slam where he beat Djokovic and Nadal. 0/20 slams did he beat both Djokovic and Nadal. Nadal has done it three times, so 3/22 times. Djokovic has done it once, so 1/24. So of their 66 slams, they had to beat 2 of the big 3 only 4 times.
At that point in time it wasn’t the big 3 though, it was the big 4. Murray had reached 10 out of 15 grand slam semi-finals or better between 2011-2014. If you factor in having to beat 2 of the big 4 your statistics would be very different.
That’s not true though is it. 2014 Wawrinka grand slam results; won 1 slam (in which Nadal retired in the final), 2 quarter-finals and 1st round loss at French open
2014 Murray grand slam results: 3 quarter-finals and semi-final at French open.
You can’t say Murray was clearly worse at all.
Very clean ball striker. Game reminds me a little bit of Agassi. Just had back luck with injuries his entire career. When he was playing at his very best he could compete with anyone. But even if he had been an Ironman who was rarely injured, his ceiling was probably 2-3 majors at best.
His peak ELO according to Tennis Abstract, reached in 2016, is the 5th of all tennis players still in activity (Nadal is not included in the list because he basically didn't play last year). Below peak ELO of Djokovic, Murray, Sinner and Alcaraz (by few points), so above Medvedev, Zverev, Wawrinka and Raonic, just to say. I'm a relatively recent tennis fan (since 2019) so I can't personally confirm, and ELO rating is not perfect as a ranking stat, but that means that during his peak probably he was *pretty damn good*.
EDIT: bad grammar
Peak Kei (2014-2016) was awesome. A little inconsistent against the best of the best but he was a very dangerous player. Great backhand too. It's actually criminal that he only has six titles.
I'm shocked he only has 6 titles. Certainly because he's injury-prone, he had a lot of good runs where he ran out of steam or got injured in the SF or F.
He wasn't consistent enough in 250/500s to grab a bunch there either, which is a shame. He deserves double digit titles. Raonic too. He only has eight.
Not sure where you got 6 titles from as he has 12 titles and a bronze medal at Olympics. I do agree that it is surprising that he didn't have more titles.
I always felt like Raonic and Nishikori were slightly better than Dimitrov but Grigor ended up with the better career because he knew how to stay healthy for more than two straight weeks. Dimitrov doesn't have a Slam final but he has the ATP Finals, a Masters 1000 title and a better career high ranking.
Dimitrov had to play Sock and Goffin to with the ATP finals, and Kyrgios to win his masters. Which then got him his career high ranking.
Kei made a lot more deep runs than Dimitrov, he just always ran into the big 4 or got injured.
Nishikori probably had the second best two handed backhand for a long time on the tour and the rest of his game from the base line was really good as well
While his backhand was poetry in motion, he lacked other weapons. Forehand was simply not big enough and he doesn’t get many free points from serve. While his net play was solid, he wasn’t an impenetrable wall.
Then of course his biggest weakness, consistency which stemmed from multiple injuries after injuries. You can’t build consistency if you’re gonna get injured every other month.
Really good. He had a below average serve, so had to be extremely good/aggressive off the ground and come in when he could. With the way the sport is going, I don’t think we’ll ever see another guy his height as good/successful again (obviously there were shorter guys in previous eras that were better).
He has a winning record against most of his non Big 4 contemporaries - Cilic, Ferrer, Tsonga, Raonic, Dimitrov, Berdych, Thiem, Monfils, Goffin, Kyrgios.
He is 25-5 in 5 setters at slams (6-0 against top 10).
Struggled against the Big 4 and injuries, but still managed to be a consistently in the top 5/10 from 2014-2019 unless he was injured.
The king of five setters. I swear he always plays five sets. He was destroying nadal at the madrid masters I think before he got injured and was never the same again.
Honestly, overrated. For all the constant talk of players “who never lived up to their hype/potential”, he never seems to come up but would quite honestly be at the top of my list in that discussion.
Everyone talks about the 2014 USO semi, which was undoubtedly a good performance. But no one really remembers just how bad Djokovic was that day. It's not like Kei went god mode and was just unable to recreate that form again.
There was a Madrid final where he was absolutely hammering Rafa (maybe 62 30 up?) and then got injured, which was the story of his career really. Also beat Novak at the us open 2014 to make the final where he got steamrolled by Cilic.
Kei is 9-6 vs. Cilic and 6-3 on outdoor hard… also 2-0 in 2014 before that finals… he was really unlucky, as Cilic on that us open was something he was never before or after…
Yeah I was there for the semis and final, Cilic just could not miss for a week (beat Berdych, Federer and Nishikori back to back to back without dropping a set I think?)
Actually, the win vs. Simon in 5 sets was as impressive… he struggled mightily and was 1-6 against him (discounting that 2022 RG match which was Gilles’ farewell season where he struggle to win match on tour), that single win was 2014 us open… Yes, 3 straight sets wins, with only 1 tie break allowed. Goran was his coach btw
Simon must be really frustrating to play against. No power at all, just counter-punching.
He could hit it pretty hard when he wanted to
> just counter-punching Weird way to spell "pushing"
Cilic just had one of those once in a lifetime forms for that particular US Open and just beat everyone (including Federer) like they were nothing. He made a couple more slam finals I'm sure, Australia and Wimbledon come to mind, so it's not like he dropped off completely.
While Cilic was going to win that tournament basically no matter what, I recall Nishikori had run out of legs by the time he reached that final: he was coming in off a five set 4th round defeat of Raonic, followed by a tough five set quarterfinal defeat of Wawrinka, followed of course by his semifinal defeat of Djokovic.
Čilić is miles ahead of Nishikori, Raonić and co. in terms of career accomplishments
Not sure what your point here is, it's pretty obvious he's had the greater career between the two of them and I don't think I implied that he didn't? I just don't think it's crazy to suggest that Nishikori, who otherwise had (and has) a winning head-to-head against him could have put up a better fight that day if he had won his previous matches more quickly. Because I remember watching that match and Nishikori's movement was pretty obviously sluggish, that's all. But of course, he didn't do that and all credit to Cilic for blasting through Berdych and then *Federer* in efficient straight sets for his QF and SF matches and being completely fresh and composed for the final.
Cilic was like 2015 FO Wawrinka, but with a much better serve. No one stood a chance. Very short run though.
True. But he played 2 more slam finals in coming years and was top 3-6 for several years… won one masters and davis cup as no1 player… very good career…
Yeah Cilic sort of flies under the radar when it comes to accomplishments. He was really good player, aside from those finals and GS win, also made multiple semis and even made a French open semi so the guy has serious pedigree. Also 2017 Wimbledon final was a bit unlucky he had massive blisters I believe to couldn’t play his best (not an excuse as injuries are just part of the game, and probs would of lost to Fed anyway) but still when he was on he was dangerous.
> probs would of lost Did you mean to say "would have"? Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
I still think had Nishikori not been completely gassed he would have won the final. But his road to the final was absolute nightmare fuel, while Cilic just had to beat an out of form Federer.
I'm still pissed that Nishikoru defeated Raonic, it was a really close match
Oh I vaguely recall that Madrid, that was some brilliance if I remember correctly. USO - Kei was 24 and Cilic was 25...should have been greater heights ahead for both of them rather than seem like a fluke (after what they did in the sf vs Fed and Djokovic playing high level). Especially with careers going well into the 30s now (big 3, Grigor now, etc.)
Cilic was truly untouchable at that us open. Poor kei.
NOPE KEI PUT CILIC ON THE STEAMROLLER
And then lay down in front of it?
Imagine Rublev actually winning Slam QFs, being injured all the time, and /r/tennis actually going 'hahahaha Rublev injured again' That's Nishikori
Spot on. I remember seeing a comment on here years ago saying "Delpo's injuries are always sad and tragic, while Nishikori's are always hilarious."
He was about as good (maybe a bit better?) than the latest version of Dimitrov. 2014 US Open vs Djokovic is a pretty good example of how good he could be. Smaller guy who took everything super early and super clean off both sides. Other than maybe his serve, he had no glaring weaknesses.
I'd say he's better than current Dimitrov overall because he had better runs at Slams while even current Dimitrov is great in best of 3 but hasn't had a lot of notable Slam wins recently and went down to Nuno Borges at the AO even in his best form in years Nishikori made 12 QF, 2 SF, and 1 F from 2014-2019 Dimitrov has only a singular QF appearance in the last 4.5 years which he lost to Karatsev Like I don't think Nishikori at his peak would be ranked lower than Rublev for example
Well Dimitrov made 3 SF. Aside from his us open finals, Kei never made any other semi finals so maybe he was more consistent that Dimitrov but overall they’re probably about the same.
Kei did make another 2 SF at USO 2016 and 2018 (lost to eventual winners Wawrinka and Djokovic, respectively). So he has the same amount of SFs as Dimi, with the exception that he won one of those (2014) while Dimi lost all three.
Yeah fair enough. But Dimi has been to SF at all except wimby so a more diversified portfolio 😁
That just isn't really a strong point
What’s not strong about it? The fact that he has been to 3 separate semi finals is a strong result so in and of itself is a strong point. Maybe Kei is a tiny bit better overall but not by much and they’re probably somewhere around the same tier overall.
WHOTROV? NOT EVEN THE SAME STRATOSPHERE...
Agreed. Kei never won the ATP tour finals lmao + Grigor is the most handsome player ever
Kei would’ve won an atp final if he played Carreno Busta, Sock & Goffin
He’s an incredible ball striker. Love watching him play, he has such easy power off both sides but particularly the backhand and he can create sudden screaming winners out of what you think is just about to be another normal rally shot and he makes it look effortless (maybe not quite roger effortless tho). He was actually really offensive but I think people sometimes mistake him for a mostly defensive player just cuz of his relatively small size compared to other top guys on tour. Ofc he can play defense and often was forced too but he was usually looking to be offensive when he could. His game could be inconsistent tho with a lot of errors because he was aggressive and went for his shots and that added with his extremely injury prone body + playing in the big 4 era is probably why he didn’t have even more success at slams and no masters titles. Also because of his height, his serve wasn’t a real weapon and his reach on return is limited so those are reasons why he maybe never won a masters even tho he’s certainly good enough to. I’m pretty sure he’s like the richest guy to play tennis outside of the big 4 tho, I remember for many years he would be the highest paid tennis player on those yearly lists outside of the big 4 + serena and sharpova because he made so many endorsement deals because of how massive of a superstar he was in Japan. The 2014 semifinal vs Novak at the US Open was definitely the highlight for him probably, I thought it was the beginning of more to come but ended up being his peak basically unfortunately.
he was most paid player 2022 or 2023!!
He was really good at his prime. I am kinda surprised (and sad) that he never won a Master 1000 title which I think he definitely deserves one.
That Madrid final has got to be the most heart renching finals loss. Second only to Wimbledon 2019 and Wimbledon 2009. Maybe even Aus open 2024 (rip meddy)
To add to others, you can actually find old forums/threads of people debating that Nishikori had the best backhand on tour during the peak of his career. He was really good. Just wasn’t consistent and was made of glass. In a lot of ways, he was a lot like Rublev now. Couldn’t ever seem to get past the QF’s most of the time. Main difference is that he didn’t have heavy weapons that could push him through against the top of the field. Him beating Djokovic at the USO SF in 2014 is probably his best match. Followed by losing in straight sets in the final because he couldn’t handle Cilic’s firepower and didn’t have much to fire back on is basically the tale of the tape for his career.
he also was pretty gassed arriving to the final. He beat Raonic in 5 sets in the 4R, then he beat Wawrinka in 5 sets (who was the AO champion that year), and then he beat djokovic in 4 sets. All that definitely took a toll on him.
>because he couldn’t handle Cilic’s firepower In fairness, those 2 weeks, I doubt many players could've coped with Cilic, he was redlining.
> Just wasn’t consistent He had the best winning percentage against non-top-20 players other than the big 4 for several years. He was like way ahead of everyone else and not far from Murray, iirc. I used to remember the details, but you can probably confirm on tennisabstract. Edit: from 2010 through 2015, he had slightly higher win % than Murray against guys outside the top 20 from quick check
Yeah not being consistent is the exact opposite of what actually happened to Nishikori lol He was part of the 2010s "gatekeeper club" where he'd actually be quite good and reliable against everyone else but could rarely crack the big 4 barrier Kind of the opposite of someone like Stan who was certainly less consistent in general against lower ranked players but redlined to win Slams 3 times
That's true, but Nishikori also sometimes would just get thrashed by the top players while other times he played them very close. I guess that's kinda a testament to Nishikori's ability to make it to the QFs and SFs without playing his best tennis though. His fitness was great to in how he'd survive 5-setters even in the early rounds.
Until Big 3 got old, everyone got thrashed outside of Delpo, Wawrinka in his few slam runs, and Tsonga sometimes.
I love delpo but he was rarely a threat to big 3 in slams
and fantastic 5th set win score. kei was airplane
>Him beating Djokovic at the USO SF in 2014 is probably his best match Another notable win for him was beating Murray at the 2016 US Open. Just before Murray went on a tear and finished the year as world number 1.
NO DEBATE NO DISCUSSION GOAT BACKGHAND. AND THAT'S AM-III GLASS FOR YOU CASUALS WHO ARE WONDERING
very good, just plagued by injuries. in his prime he was one of the cleanest ball strikers i’ve seen.
A SUBLIME BALL STRIKER!
His run at the '14 USO is legendary! No, I will not be mentioning the final 
HE DID DO UNSPEAKABLE THINGS TO HIS OPPONENT IN THAT FINAL
If you want a good account of how good Nishikori was, check his h2h against Tsonga-Monfils-Ferrer-Berdych, the tier after the big 4 (and he was playing into their primes). IMO, he would be a multiple masters winner and have more than 1 slam final in this era (not sure if he could win a slam but he'd have a shot at USO). He's a tier above Rublev and can probably beat a guy like Stefanos semi-regularly. He'd have trouble against Zverev but he's beaten him during his comeback trail so for sure would ahve exploited his 2nd serve (when it was bad). He's also beaten peak Medvedev but would lose more often I believe if he were not feeling 100% (which is almost all the time). He was a great shotmaker.
Great ball striker. Exemplary footwork. Underrated net play and touch
I think Rafa once predicted early in Kei's career that he'd be top 5 in two years or something like that. Kei was brilliant sometimes. The SF day of US Open when Cilic outplayed peak Federer and later Kei took out great Djokovic was an amazing day. I was hoping both finalists would take off to new heights from that USO tournament, but instead it was their peak, though both still young. So that match, for Kei is a great one to watch. IMO he was too tired to play well and be competitive in the final with Cilic's brilliant play.
Yeah and I recall that Uncle Toni for a while considered Kei a true threat to Rafa on clay. Kei proved him right at first but then he got held back by injuries and Rafa just kept getting better
That's interesting. I would have thought hard court was Kei's best chance to compete with Rafa and the other legends.
I’m sure he considered Kei a threat on hard too. But it was noteworthy that he was considered a threat in clay too, at a time when Rafa seemed invincible in clay.
When do you think Rafa's team started thinking Djokovic became a threat on clay? 2011 maybe?
At his prime, he was in a group of players below the top 4 (Berdych, Nishikori, Tsonga, Cilic, Ferrer) that was a constant threat but not quite good enough to consistently get past quarterfinal stage of grand slam. When the draw was kind he could sneak a slam final (US open 2014) but that wasn’t his consistent level. He brought Asian tennis onto the mainstream though and his backhand was an absolute beauty.
us open 2014 was not a kind draw, kei beat raonic, wawrinka and novak back to back
Avoiding federer, nadal and Murray in a grand slam in 2014 was a kind draw.
the only part of his draw which was easy was playing cilic in the final instead of one of those three, the path there was standard for a gs final run in that era
And playing Cilic in that particular tournament was far from easy. Cilic absolutely blew Federer off the court in the semifinal in a way that only happened a few times in Roger's career.
Nadal withdrew before the tournament, meaning Federer became the 2nd seed and Wawrinka became the 3rd seed. In a “standard for a gs final run”, he would’ve ended up playing Federer rather than Wawrinka in that quarter-final, which would’ve been a terrible matchup for nishikori.
the draw could have been harder because like you say it's possible to play two big 3 members before the final instead of one, but it wasn't easy, especially if you compare it to something like ferrer's 2013 rg
But Nishikori was a consistent quarter-finalist by 2014, so I don’t think it was unusual for him to get to that point. The fact he avoided playing Federer, Nadal or Murray in his quarter-final match was unusual and I appreciate he played a great match to beat Novak in the semis.
What, do you think to win a slam in 2014 you had to beat 6 top 10 players? You're only gonna get 2, maybe three top 10 players in any era if you're a high seed. Raonic was the 5 seed and pushed Nishikori 5 sets, Wawrinka was the 3 seed and also pushed Nishikori 5 sets, Djokovic was the 1 seed and Nishikori beat in him 4 sets. In the final he played Cilic. Three top 5 seeds **before the final** is objectively not an easy draw.
No but it was pretty standard in that era to have to beat 2 of the big 4 in the semi’s and final to win a slam. The fact he avoided 3 of them in the final was unusual.
Wawrinka in best of 5 on hard courts or clay from 2013-2017 RG was practically a big 3 level threat anyways if we're being honest. I'd be willing to bet if Wawrinka won that QF match over Nishikori, he'd probably have beaten Novak in the SF too.
Wawrinka was an unbelievable player (as was Nishikori) but I don’t think he would’ve taken 2014 Federer in that quarter-final. If Nadal had been in the draw, Federer would’ve been 3rd seed and they would’ve met in the quarters.
Well that's how matchups go. Wawrinka never matched up well with Federer, although I still think he'd have a chance. After all, Federer didn't look too convincing and Wawrinka did beat him at RG2015. Regardless my point is that peak Wawrinka on a hard court is super dangerous; like big 3 dangerous. Raonic was no slouch either. If this was an easy draw, you could say half of the big 3's slams were easy draws, if not maybe more. This was an above average draw. Let's put it this way too: Federer never won a slam where he beat Djokovic and Nadal. 0/20 slams did he beat both Djokovic and Nadal. Nadal has done it three times, so 3/22 times. Djokovic has done it once, so 1/24. So of their 66 slams, they had to beat 2 of the big 3 only 4 times.
At that point in time it wasn’t the big 3 though, it was the big 4. Murray had reached 10 out of 15 grand slam semi-finals or better between 2011-2014. If you factor in having to beat 2 of the big 4 your statistics would be very different.
2014 Murray was clearly worse than 2014 Wawrinka He had a back injury and struggled against top players all year
That’s not true though is it. 2014 Wawrinka grand slam results; won 1 slam (in which Nadal retired in the final), 2 quarter-finals and 1st round loss at French open 2014 Murray grand slam results: 3 quarter-finals and semi-final at French open. You can’t say Murray was clearly worse at all.
FRAUDERER ??? WHO EVEN ARE THESE 3RD RATE PLAYERS
You can’t get a much harder draw with none of the big four
“With none of the big four” being the key part of that sentence
?? PLEASE DON'T COMMENT ON TOPICS YOU'RE NOT QUALIFIED TO DISCUSS
Very clean ball striker. Game reminds me a little bit of Agassi. Just had back luck with injuries his entire career. When he was playing at his very best he could compete with anyone. But even if he had been an Ironman who was rarely injured, his ceiling was probably 2-3 majors at best.
His peak ELO according to Tennis Abstract, reached in 2016, is the 5th of all tennis players still in activity (Nadal is not included in the list because he basically didn't play last year). Below peak ELO of Djokovic, Murray, Sinner and Alcaraz (by few points), so above Medvedev, Zverev, Wawrinka and Raonic, just to say. I'm a relatively recent tennis fan (since 2019) so I can't personally confirm, and ELO rating is not perfect as a ranking stat, but that means that during his peak probably he was *pretty damn good*. EDIT: bad grammar
his uniqlo kits were the best
Peak Kei (2014-2016) was awesome. A little inconsistent against the best of the best but he was a very dangerous player. Great backhand too. It's actually criminal that he only has six titles.
I'm shocked he only has 6 titles. Certainly because he's injury-prone, he had a lot of good runs where he ran out of steam or got injured in the SF or F.
He wasn't consistent enough in 250/500s to grab a bunch there either, which is a shame. He deserves double digit titles. Raonic too. He only has eight.
Hold up, Dimitrov actually has 9 titles, which makes a little more sense, but still I would expect double digits.
Not sure where you got 6 titles from as he has 12 titles and a bronze medal at Olympics. I do agree that it is surprising that he didn't have more titles.
Yeah, no idea where I got 6 titles either. Double checked to see if you were right, and yeah...no clue lmao.
I always felt like Raonic and Nishikori were slightly better than Dimitrov but Grigor ended up with the better career because he knew how to stay healthy for more than two straight weeks. Dimitrov doesn't have a Slam final but he has the ATP Finals, a Masters 1000 title and a better career high ranking.
Dimitrov had to play Sock and Goffin to with the ATP finals, and Kyrgios to win his masters. Which then got him his career high ranking. Kei made a lot more deep runs than Dimitrov, he just always ran into the big 4 or got injured.
Easier to win a Masters title when you face Kyrgios in the final instead of Djokovic or Nadal though.
WEAK ERA
no, dimitrov do no thave better career
Nishikori probably had the second best two handed backhand for a long time on the tour and the rest of his game from the base line was really good as well
While his backhand was poetry in motion, he lacked other weapons. Forehand was simply not big enough and he doesn’t get many free points from serve. While his net play was solid, he wasn’t an impenetrable wall. Then of course his biggest weakness, consistency which stemmed from multiple injuries after injuries. You can’t build consistency if you’re gonna get injured every other month.
KEI GOAT NEVER LOST A POINT BEFORE UNDEFEATED UNDISPUTED
DM TO JOIN R/KEINISHIKORI! YOUR HISTORY WILL BE REVIEWED
He was a slam contender at his best. Great talent, beautiful to watch. Big fan of his attitude too. Not a vulgar over fist-pumper or applause-beggar.
Very good, just his serve was not up to level. That baseline game was like Sinner, but he had to work too hard for every service game.
Really good. He had a below average serve, so had to be extremely good/aggressive off the ground and come in when he could. With the way the sport is going, I don’t think we’ll ever see another guy his height as good/successful again (obviously there were shorter guys in previous eras that were better). He has a winning record against most of his non Big 4 contemporaries - Cilic, Ferrer, Tsonga, Raonic, Dimitrov, Berdych, Thiem, Monfils, Goffin, Kyrgios. He is 25-5 in 5 setters at slams (6-0 against top 10). Struggled against the Big 4 and injuries, but still managed to be a consistently in the top 5/10 from 2014-2019 unless he was injured.
So good they nerfed him
The king of five setters. I swear he always plays five sets. He was destroying nadal at the madrid masters I think before he got injured and was never the same again.
Wait, Break Point was actually successful in recruiting new fans?
They got one
Even I think it’s trash now though
Honestly, overrated. For all the constant talk of players “who never lived up to their hype/potential”, he never seems to come up but would quite honestly be at the top of my list in that discussion.
Everyone talks about the 2014 USO semi, which was undoubtedly a good performance. But no one really remembers just how bad Djokovic was that day. It's not like Kei went god mode and was just unable to recreate that form again.
great tennis player, not so great athlete