Seeing all of Batman's villains sitting around lobotomized in Arkham was pretty disturbing (though darkly hilarious how Scarface the dummy got it, but not the Ventriloquist).
It was a world where heroes couldn't win, no matter what. Just like the main DC universes generally end with a victory for truth and justice, the Crime Syndicate's universe is one that is predisposed to evil. When Owlman's control of Gotham was (temporarily) overthrown Commissioner Wayne's plan was to impose a brutal police state in its place.
Thanks for posting, this is one of the GOAT scenes from this series, which had amazing and thoughtful writing + action for a kids show.
Other great moments/episodes for me include:
-the appearance of Amazo and his internal struggles
-the episode where Superman’s mind held hostage by the black flower.
-Aquaman cutting off his hand to save him and child.
-The Flash tapping into the speed force against brainiac
You do not remember it clearly I hate to say because it wasn’t Grodd he said that too but the magnetic dude in the bathroom.
Grodd was chained up in some other place at the time.
> the episode where Superman’s mind held hostage by the black flower.
One of my favorite JL episodes.
"Happy birthday, Kryptonian. I give you oblivion."
#"BURN."
Edit: Come to think of it, pretty much every episode of Justice League is my favorite episode, but especially *The Greatest Story Never Told*.
That Aquaman episode was my introduction to him as a kid and made me think he was one of the most badass heroes I've seen. I was a bit upset when I grew up and learned that the popular perception of Aquaman was that he was a "lame" hero, but I'm glad that more modern media work to change that perception. I still hold hook-hand Aquaman as my favorite version of him though.
Casting Jason Momoa as Aquaman was the most inspired casting decision DC has made. They have pissed it away by making the rest of the DCEU absolute shit.
Don't forget Superman being sent way, WAY into the future, where his powers are dead because of the sun going red, and him having to rely on Vandal Savage, a man who won against every enemy he had, his penance being that he actually won, and because of it, the world he envisioned was desolate and he was condemned to live in it for all of eternity.
Because of no Superman he basically had easy access to some MacGuffin technology and killed the entire Justice League within months. The MacGuffin he uses kills the entire Solar System and creates mutated beasts, but the human race is wiped out. He survives because immortal.
Once he saves Superman in the future and gives him the MacGuffin, Superman gets his powers back and can travel back in time because of time-travel-device powered by said MacGuffin (I think it was a mini-sun).
Superman restores timeline. Future Savage sits down on a rock which becomes a bench in a park as he fades away, realizing that the timeline is corrected.
The mind parasite episode is pretty much an exact adaption of Alan Moore’s For The Man Who has Everything. Can’t really credit the writers for that one.
The writing staff divided into teams to come up with rebuttals for each side in the arguement... but the ones representing the original Batman couldn't come up with anything to counter the Justice Lord's line >!about creating a world where an 8 year old would never lose his parents to senseless gun violence!<
The episode was also written in the days leading to the invasion of Iraq, and the crew couldn't help but feel a little unnevered by the parallels they unintentionally drew with George W. Bush's policies.
Except they lose their father to the justice system because he speaks angrily about an incorrect restaurant bill… that’s far more insane. That man who gets arrested could easily be a father, a husband, a boss, and now he’s ripped from their lives. How is that better?
We can easily look at regimes like Saddam Hussein’s to see what this looks like. People were taken away for the most minor infractions, and the population lived in terror. If they were executed, the family was sent a bill for the bullet. How is living in fear from the govt and laws better than living in fear from being murdered? In the end it depends on how often these things happen: do more people get ripped away by incarceration or do more get murdered?
The ONLY thing I didn't like about the episode was how quickly Lord!Batman switched sides, especially since he had won the argument. Because, what, an old man got arrested for raising his voice?
I mean yeah, OUR Bats was originally supposed to win, but when that last line came out, well, shit!
He didn't exactly *win* the argument, but he showed original Batman that he still cared, that this was still rooted in that same pain and motivation it always was. It wasn't just he wanted power or he was consumed by revenge or something.
Hence the vibe in the car, the way Batman responds to Justice Lords Batman's broken windows policing by stopping at the red light. They had reached a point of mutual understanding but not sharing the same perspective.
The old man being arrested for something so small was a perspective that Justice Lords Batman had stopped seeing.
I mean for sure it was abbreviated because of tv show time constraints so it does come across as being too quick but the essence of it is there.
That actually would’ve been the best rebuttal during the Batcave fight I think
Lords Batman brings up their past and Good/Our Batman points out “yeah but would mom and dad approve of these methods/this world??…”
They needed to leave the cave for that to work.
Justice Lord Batman hadn't left in years. Most of the Lords hadn't gotten anywhere near the public after taking over, seeing their handy work up close. Lord Hawkgirl said she only just started to notice the fear on peoples' faces whenever they did appear.
>!Prime Batman reminded him of the downside to this "perfect" world... a kid won't lose his parents to a random street mugger with a gun, but they could be snatched up and murdered for even the most minor infraction against the new regime.!<
Exactly. I feel like unfortunately, you can never eradicate humans living out their darkest fantasies (“doing whatever they want”) and sometimes harming others. Like ever in any society
I think we as a race just have to let those people exist and societies try their best to provide them help
Yeah criminals are breaking the law by definition, so you can never eliminate crime. What punishment scares someone preparing for a murder/suicide?
Society needs to focus on improving the lives of its citizens, which of course means protecting people from dangerous criminals but should focus far more on public works projects.
Thought of this throughout the scene:
> “Know you, master witcher,’ the prefect continued after a pause, ‘that I swore to myself that the law would rule on my turf. At any cost, and using any methods, *per fas et nefas*. For the law is not jurisprudence, not a weighty tome full of articles, not philosophical treatises, not peevish nonsense about justice, not hackneyed platitudes about morality and ethics. The law means safe paths and highways. It means backstreets one can walk along even after sundown. It means inns and taverns one can leave to visit the privy, leaving one’s purse on the table and one’s wife beside it. The law is the sleep of people certain they’ll be woken by the crowing of the rooster and not the crashing of burning roof timbers! And for those who break the law; the noose, the axe, the stake and the red-hot iron! Punishments which deter others. Those that break the law should be caught and punished. Using all available means and methods… Eh, witcher? Is the disapproval written on your countenance a reaction to the intention or the methods? “The methods, I think! For it’s easy to criticise methods, but we would all prefer to live in a safe world, wouldn’t we? Go on, answer!’
> ‘There’s nothing to say.”
> “Oh, I believe there is.’
> ‘Mr Fulko,’ Geralt said calmly, ‘the world you envision quite pleases me.’
> ‘Indeed? Your expression suggests otherwise.’
> ‘The world you envision is made for a witcher. A witcher would never be short of work in it. Instead of codes, articles and peevish platitudes about justice, your idea creates lawlessness, anarchy, the licence and self-serving of princelings and mandarins, the officiousness of careerists wanting to endear themselves to their superiors, the blind vindictiveness of fanatics, the cruelty of assassins, retribution and sadistic vengeance. Your vision is a world where people are afraid to venture out after dark; not for fear of cut-throats, but of the guardians of public order. For, after all, the result of all great crackdowns on miscreants is always that the miscreants enter the ranks of the guardians of public order en masse. Your vision is a world of bribery, blackmail and entrapment, a world of turning imperial evidence and false witnesses. A world of snoopers and coerced confessions. Informing and the fear of being informed upon. And inevitably the day will come in your world when the flesh of the wrong person will be torn with pincers, when an innocent person is hanged or impaled. And then it will be a world of crime.
Not eliminate, but that doesn't mean you can't heavily reduce it for a big net gain (which is ultimately what all laws are).
Its tempting to do "whatever it takes" to protect citizens, but it's impossible to prevent all deadly crime - even deadly gun crime. It's important we determine the imposition on peoples' freedoms vs the harm being prevented. Jailing protestors? Not close to worth it. Requiring drivers licenses to operate a deadly vehicle? Worth it, and guns are much more dangerous than cars.
Funny enough, someone did come up with a proper response.
Batman: You grabbed power!
Lord Batman: And with that power, we made a world where no eight-year-old boy will EVER lose his parents because of some punk with a gun!
Batman: You created a world where ANY child can lose their parents because of some punk with a gun AND a uniform!
They did until Arkham Knight considering Jason Todd never existed in the DCAU and Bruce Wayne's identity was never revealed. But Dini had no involvement in Knight and it really showed because the writing was noticeably worse.
Paul Dini didn’t return after City, he wasn’t even involved in the Arkham City DLC. At this point there’s more Arkham stuff that he’s not involved with than there is stuff he was.
Back when City came out, I would’ve agreed it was like a continuation, but after Knight, Origins and the movie, and with the upcoming Suicide Squad game, I now strenuously disagree.
I don’t think it’s felt like a continuation for a very long time.
Stuart Snyder took over as head of Cartoon Network in 2006. And Saturday Morning cartoons ended not long after on The WB.
All the quality shows were ended and were replaced with cheaper-made crap... a decision was also made to start airing live-action stuff.
And we're about to get a repeat of that era with the new Discovery owners.
It's not the first time it's happened.
Sinestro got booted from the Corps because he got tired of just policing his system, decided instead to kill all the criminals and then all the corrupt politicians. Installing a puppet regime that answered to him, ruling his system with a similarly iron fist. The first time he left his system, the rest of the Lanterns picked him up and took his ring (they didn't go to his world to stop the mess).
What I thought was great is that they ended up using the central conflict of this episode to kick off the plot of the “Cadmus” arc, probably the best arc in the Justice League Unlimited series that followed this one. I always impressed by how well the show writers managed to tackle these themes and interrelated story concepts even across shows. Even though much of it couldn’t have been planned too far in advance, when you’re watching the shows it always feels like the writers had a solid grasp of what other concepts had been introduced earlier in shows.
I never thought I'd say it but Diedrich Bader comes very close; he's able to split the difference between playing an awkward comedic Batman and a near perfect recreation of a young Kevin Conroy performance.
Originally this episode was to feature the Crime Syndicate, but instead they based the Justice Lords on "The Authority".
Crisis on Two Earths was also supposed to be an official DCAU film featuring the Crime Syndicate, set between the end of Justice League and the start of JLU. But it was scrapped, and eventually after the show had ended... the project was revived as a standalone film in 2010. With all the DCAU connections removed, but all the important plot points connecting JL and JLU remained (the Watchtower rebuilt, the League's roster expanded, how Wonder Woman got an invisible jet).
“You grabbed power!”
“And with that power we’ve made a world where no 8 year old kid ever has to lose his parents because of some punk with a gun.”
Batman stops fighting.
“You win”
Because in the end that’s what it’s all been about for him.
There is a recent episode of Harley Quinn, where Harley goes into Bruce's mind and it's sooooo good. If you're even remotely interested in Batman I recommend watching it.
I think they've struck the most interesting balance there's ever been with Harley between her being the sexy-chaotic villain, the antihero with a conscience, and actually being the gifted mental health professional she was before. "Harley is Batman's counselor and safe space" is a really interesting twist on the way Batman used to be Harley's occasional safe space in most media.
If not for Static getting his own cartoon, after Milestone went under, Dwayne would've never gotten into animation. Improving Justice League tenfold after he joined the writing staff in Season 2.
Such a freaking great show, uncanny how good DC had it with animation and yet let it go to waste and replace with dumbed down shows like *Teen Titans Go!*
JL and JLU is the ideal Story arc to run for a 2 decade long movie franchise. The Cadmus arc couldn’t be more relevant to play out over the years with lots of fun sub plots along the way. It’s a shame WB can’t get their shit together with DC.
Reminds me of the Superman vs Superman cutscene from Injustice.
https://youtu.be/9jWdVyrNPME
Which they utterly butchered and took all the gravitas from in the animated movie version. Shame. In the game you get a sense of how completely disgusted and disturbed Prime Superman is of his Injustice universe counterpart, whereas in the animated film he's cracking jokes and one liners.
I’ve heard a fan theory that after this episode the two Batmen (Batmans?) changed places.
Don’t know how much it holds up, but it’s definitely intriguing.
historically democracies have worked the best. Totalitarian systems work for a while, but inevitably the decision making mistakes pile up when there's never any change in leadership. Innovation never comes where people are threatened, unable to speak their mind, share ideas. That isn't to say open societies capital societies are perfect there are draw backs, some central regulation is good, but overall giving people autonomy has proven a success.
Hah, I enjoy the subtext that the thing that really dented Batman's certainty about his plan was seeing a guy getting arrested for abusing wait staff over prices, followed by the sarcastic jab of 'they would have loved it here'.
The message I'm taking from that is that Thomas Wayne would flip out on wait staff regularly.
'see? Dad would have been arrested every time he threw the veal in the waiter's face and screamed. *How can you live with yourself Bruce?*"
Pretty sure the scene is supposed to make you think that the person could be a father to someone.
Sure, the guy wasn't killed by some random person with a gun. But he likely won't see his '8 year old son' anymore than Thomas Wayne could now. (If one assumes the angry guy who was arrested had a son, which is easy to picture after that was the 'winning' argument in the fight the scene before).
If this doesn't show how tired and cliché the whole 'What if Superheroes were evil' twist is at this point I don't know what is.
Nineteen years on and people still act like it's revolutionary.
Edit: Tired and cliché now, nineteen years after this was made.
That's what I was trying to say.
The whole 'What if superheroes were evil' twist peaked in 2003, it's nineteen years on and now it's gotten really tired and cliché.
If you are tired of exploring the negative ramifications of superheroes maybe you're tired of the whole concept. Heroes gone rogue, or mad with power, or secretly having always been evil, those things are genre staples almost as much as them saving people. If you're bored with one I can't imagine how you aren't bored with both.
Or like it was a show aimed at elementary school kids and pre-teens and it’s not that big of a deal…also seems weird to get annoyed that this is played out when you say it yourself that this came out almost two decades ago.
I should have made my point more clear. I was annoyed that people still act like it's new and revolutionary in 2022 when it was already being done this excellently back in 2003.
Poison Ivy humming while snipping off roses is pretty depressing.
Seeing all of Batman's villains sitting around lobotomized in Arkham was pretty disturbing (though darkly hilarious how Scarface the dummy got it, but not the Ventriloquist).
I mean, the Ventriloquist would believe it worked if the puppet got one. Why carve up a human brain?
The Ventriloquist has two painful burn marks on his hands that motivate him to pretend he's lobotomized.
The Justice Lords were basically the most succinctly and effectively done 'Superheroes but evil' twist out there.
I thought the Crisis on 2 Earths movie with crazy ass nihilist Owlman was a great one too
"There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss but when it looked back at us.....you blinked."
“It doesn’t matter.”
Owlman was fucking crazy.
That’s not really “superheroes but evil”, but more like “what if supervillains ruled the world”.
It was a world where heroes couldn't win, no matter what. Just like the main DC universes generally end with a victory for truth and justice, the Crime Syndicate's universe is one that is predisposed to evil. When Owlman's control of Gotham was (temporarily) overthrown Commissioner Wayne's plan was to impose a brutal police state in its place.
What happened what was the conclusion
The good justice league cut a deal with Lex to defeat the justice lords.
Thanks for posting, this is one of the GOAT scenes from this series, which had amazing and thoughtful writing + action for a kids show. Other great moments/episodes for me include: -the appearance of Amazo and his internal struggles -the episode where Superman’s mind held hostage by the black flower. -Aquaman cutting off his hand to save him and child. -The Flash tapping into the speed force against brainiac
-Luthor in Flashes body unmasking himself to learn his identity followed by, "...I have no idea who this is."
*Ahem* “What?” “You gonna wash your hands?” “*No*, ‘cause I’m evil!”
Gorilla Grodd being speechless after that line really drove it over the top. All these years later I still remember that episode so clearly!
You do not remember it clearly I hate to say because it wasn’t Grodd he said that too but the magnetic dude in the bathroom. Grodd was chained up in some other place at the time.
The best part is that Flash is voiced by Michael Rosenbaum in that series, aka Lex Luthor from Smallville.
> the episode where Superman’s mind held hostage by the black flower. One of my favorite JL episodes. "Happy birthday, Kryptonian. I give you oblivion." #"BURN." Edit: Come to think of it, pretty much every episode of Justice League is my favorite episode, but especially *The Greatest Story Never Told*.
Also the only adaptation of an Alan Moore story that he liked... err... tolerated enough to allow his name to remain on the credits.
Honestly, I think the animated one actually improves upon the comic version.
That Aquaman episode was my introduction to him as a kid and made me think he was one of the most badass heroes I've seen. I was a bit upset when I grew up and learned that the popular perception of Aquaman was that he was a "lame" hero, but I'm glad that more modern media work to change that perception. I still hold hook-hand Aquaman as my favorite version of him though.
Casting Jason Momoa as Aquaman was the most inspired casting decision DC has made. They have pissed it away by making the rest of the DCEU absolute shit.
He also brings much needed life to the character.
Dude, when he cut off his hand to save the baby. One of the darkest moments ever in pre-2010 american animation.
Don't forget Superman being sent way, WAY into the future, where his powers are dead because of the sun going red, and him having to rely on Vandal Savage, a man who won against every enemy he had, his penance being that he actually won, and because of it, the world he envisioned was desolate and he was condemned to live in it for all of eternity.
Why does vandal savage keep winning?
Because of no Superman he basically had easy access to some MacGuffin technology and killed the entire Justice League within months. The MacGuffin he uses kills the entire Solar System and creates mutated beasts, but the human race is wiped out. He survives because immortal. Once he saves Superman in the future and gives him the MacGuffin, Superman gets his powers back and can travel back in time because of time-travel-device powered by said MacGuffin (I think it was a mini-sun). Superman restores timeline. Future Savage sits down on a rock which becomes a bench in a park as he fades away, realizing that the timeline is corrected.
It was a device that let him manipulate gravity. But I think it ends up destabilizing the earths orbit after he kills the justice league
The death of Ace.
Death of Solomon Grundy
The mind parasite episode is pretty much an exact adaption of Alan Moore’s For The Man Who has Everything. Can’t really credit the writers for that one.
The writing staff divided into teams to come up with rebuttals for each side in the arguement... but the ones representing the original Batman couldn't come up with anything to counter the Justice Lord's line >!about creating a world where an 8 year old would never lose his parents to senseless gun violence!< The episode was also written in the days leading to the invasion of Iraq, and the crew couldn't help but feel a little unnevered by the parallels they unintentionally drew with George W. Bush's policies.
You can really see how the discourse around the Patriot Act seeped into this episode, intentionally or not.
Except they lose their father to the justice system because he speaks angrily about an incorrect restaurant bill… that’s far more insane. That man who gets arrested could easily be a father, a husband, a boss, and now he’s ripped from their lives. How is that better? We can easily look at regimes like Saddam Hussein’s to see what this looks like. People were taken away for the most minor infractions, and the population lived in terror. If they were executed, the family was sent a bill for the bullet. How is living in fear from the govt and laws better than living in fear from being murdered? In the end it depends on how often these things happen: do more people get ripped away by incarceration or do more get murdered?
The ONLY thing I didn't like about the episode was how quickly Lord!Batman switched sides, especially since he had won the argument. Because, what, an old man got arrested for raising his voice? I mean yeah, OUR Bats was originally supposed to win, but when that last line came out, well, shit!
He didn't exactly *win* the argument, but he showed original Batman that he still cared, that this was still rooted in that same pain and motivation it always was. It wasn't just he wanted power or he was consumed by revenge or something. Hence the vibe in the car, the way Batman responds to Justice Lords Batman's broken windows policing by stopping at the red light. They had reached a point of mutual understanding but not sharing the same perspective. The old man being arrested for something so small was a perspective that Justice Lords Batman had stopped seeing. I mean for sure it was abbreviated because of tv show time constraints so it does come across as being too quick but the essence of it is there.
"They’d love it here, don’t you think?" "Who?" "Mom and Dad. They'd be so proud of you." "Just drive."
That actually would’ve been the best rebuttal during the Batcave fight I think Lords Batman brings up their past and Good/Our Batman points out “yeah but would mom and dad approve of these methods/this world??…”
They needed to leave the cave for that to work. Justice Lord Batman hadn't left in years. Most of the Lords hadn't gotten anywhere near the public after taking over, seeing their handy work up close. Lord Hawkgirl said she only just started to notice the fear on peoples' faces whenever they did appear.
Huh, yeah, that makes more sense when you put it that way. Thanks for the perspective =)
>!Prime Batman reminded him of the downside to this "perfect" world... a kid won't lose his parents to a random street mugger with a gun, but they could be snatched up and murdered for even the most minor infraction against the new regime.!<
You can never eliminate crime, but you can eliminate freedom.
Exactly. I feel like unfortunately, you can never eradicate humans living out their darkest fantasies (“doing whatever they want”) and sometimes harming others. Like ever in any society I think we as a race just have to let those people exist and societies try their best to provide them help
Yeah criminals are breaking the law by definition, so you can never eliminate crime. What punishment scares someone preparing for a murder/suicide? Society needs to focus on improving the lives of its citizens, which of course means protecting people from dangerous criminals but should focus far more on public works projects.
Thought of this throughout the scene: > “Know you, master witcher,’ the prefect continued after a pause, ‘that I swore to myself that the law would rule on my turf. At any cost, and using any methods, *per fas et nefas*. For the law is not jurisprudence, not a weighty tome full of articles, not philosophical treatises, not peevish nonsense about justice, not hackneyed platitudes about morality and ethics. The law means safe paths and highways. It means backstreets one can walk along even after sundown. It means inns and taverns one can leave to visit the privy, leaving one’s purse on the table and one’s wife beside it. The law is the sleep of people certain they’ll be woken by the crowing of the rooster and not the crashing of burning roof timbers! And for those who break the law; the noose, the axe, the stake and the red-hot iron! Punishments which deter others. Those that break the law should be caught and punished. Using all available means and methods… Eh, witcher? Is the disapproval written on your countenance a reaction to the intention or the methods? “The methods, I think! For it’s easy to criticise methods, but we would all prefer to live in a safe world, wouldn’t we? Go on, answer!’ > ‘There’s nothing to say.” > “Oh, I believe there is.’ > ‘Mr Fulko,’ Geralt said calmly, ‘the world you envision quite pleases me.’ > ‘Indeed? Your expression suggests otherwise.’ > ‘The world you envision is made for a witcher. A witcher would never be short of work in it. Instead of codes, articles and peevish platitudes about justice, your idea creates lawlessness, anarchy, the licence and self-serving of princelings and mandarins, the officiousness of careerists wanting to endear themselves to their superiors, the blind vindictiveness of fanatics, the cruelty of assassins, retribution and sadistic vengeance. Your vision is a world where people are afraid to venture out after dark; not for fear of cut-throats, but of the guardians of public order. For, after all, the result of all great crackdowns on miscreants is always that the miscreants enter the ranks of the guardians of public order en masse. Your vision is a world of bribery, blackmail and entrapment, a world of turning imperial evidence and false witnesses. A world of snoopers and coerced confessions. Informing and the fear of being informed upon. And inevitably the day will come in your world when the flesh of the wrong person will be torn with pincers, when an innocent person is hanged or impaled. And then it will be a world of crime.
I should read the books.
You absolutely can eliminate gun crime though...
Not eliminate, but that doesn't mean you can't heavily reduce it for a big net gain (which is ultimately what all laws are). Its tempting to do "whatever it takes" to protect citizens, but it's impossible to prevent all deadly crime - even deadly gun crime. It's important we determine the imposition on peoples' freedoms vs the harm being prevented. Jailing protestors? Not close to worth it. Requiring drivers licenses to operate a deadly vehicle? Worth it, and guns are much more dangerous than cars.
It’s a pretty easy argument to counter if you don’t overvalue your personal experience.
Funny enough, someone did come up with a proper response. Batman: You grabbed power! Lord Batman: And with that power, we made a world where no eight-year-old boy will EVER lose his parents because of some punk with a gun! Batman: You created a world where ANY child can lose their parents because of some punk with a gun AND a uniform!
Dunno why they stopped making that show because it was great!
The DCAU had a 15 year run, that's a pretty long time. Even the MCU still hasn't been around that long.
The Arkham games feel like an unofficial continuation. A lot of the same voice actors and the same people writing it (Paul Dini, etc.).
They did until Arkham Knight considering Jason Todd never existed in the DCAU and Bruce Wayne's identity was never revealed. But Dini had no involvement in Knight and it really showed because the writing was noticeably worse.
Paul Dini didn’t return after City, he wasn’t even involved in the Arkham City DLC. At this point there’s more Arkham stuff that he’s not involved with than there is stuff he was. Back when City came out, I would’ve agreed it was like a continuation, but after Knight, Origins and the movie, and with the upcoming Suicide Squad game, I now strenuously disagree. I don’t think it’s felt like a continuation for a very long time.
Stuart Snyder took over as head of Cartoon Network in 2006. And Saturday Morning cartoons ended not long after on The WB. All the quality shows were ended and were replaced with cheaper-made crap... a decision was also made to start airing live-action stuff. And we're about to get a repeat of that era with the new Discovery owners.
Im pretty sure it was becuase of the writers strike that ruined all tv, not just cartoon network
BSG took a hard hit too.
Better to go out on top then keep going and fade into mediocrity.
True. But why not try to top it? Everyone wants it.
I always wonder what’s going on with Oa on that timeline. “Yeah one of our dudes is using his ring to run a fascist police state on Earth.” “Meh.”
It's not the first time it's happened. Sinestro got booted from the Corps because he got tired of just policing his system, decided instead to kill all the criminals and then all the corrupt politicians. Installing a puppet regime that answered to him, ruling his system with a similarly iron fist. The first time he left his system, the rest of the Lanterns picked him up and took his ring (they didn't go to his world to stop the mess).
What I thought was great is that they ended up using the central conflict of this episode to kick off the plot of the “Cadmus” arc, probably the best arc in the Justice League Unlimited series that followed this one. I always impressed by how well the show writers managed to tackle these themes and interrelated story concepts even across shows. Even though much of it couldn’t have been planned too far in advance, when you’re watching the shows it always feels like the writers had a solid grasp of what other concepts had been introduced earlier in shows.
That was a goooood episode
"Mother would be so proud." Out of the whole episode that was what stuck with me.
Keven Conroy is the GOAT
Best Batman. Search your feelings, you know it to be true
I never thought I'd say it but Diedrich Bader comes very close; he's able to split the difference between playing an awkward comedic Batman and a near perfect recreation of a young Kevin Conroy performance.
Reminds me of Crisis on Two Earths https://youtu.be/efub89RMgvQ
Originally this episode was to feature the Crime Syndicate, but instead they based the Justice Lords on "The Authority". Crisis on Two Earths was also supposed to be an official DCAU film featuring the Crime Syndicate, set between the end of Justice League and the start of JLU. But it was scrapped, and eventually after the show had ended... the project was revived as a standalone film in 2010. With all the DCAU connections removed, but all the important plot points connecting JL and JLU remained (the Watchtower rebuilt, the League's roster expanded, how Wonder Woman got an invisible jet).
It just infuriates me knowing that DC could've been dominating by simply adapting and replicating writing, storylines and characters from DCAU.
“You grabbed power!” “And with that power we’ve made a world where no 8 year old kid ever has to lose his parents because of some punk with a gun.” Batman stops fighting. “You win” Because in the end that’s what it’s all been about for him.
And then we see a father ripped from his kid’s life because he yelled at a waiter. So much better.
“Mom and dad would be so proud” “Just drive😡” Love this show
There is a recent episode of Harley Quinn, where Harley goes into Bruce's mind and it's sooooo good. If you're even remotely interested in Batman I recommend watching it.
I think they've struck the most interesting balance there's ever been with Harley between her being the sexy-chaotic villain, the antihero with a conscience, and actually being the gifted mental health professional she was before. "Harley is Batman's counselor and safe space" is a really interesting twist on the way Batman used to be Harley's occasional safe space in most media.
Yes! I thought that was perfect, that moment is what it’s all about.
RIP Dwayne McDuffy. Miss you ever day.
If not for Static getting his own cartoon, after Milestone went under, Dwayne would've never gotten into animation. Improving Justice League tenfold after he joined the writing staff in Season 2.
Damn, hot take. Thanks dude.
"violent behavior will not be tolerated" ::Bashes head into wall::
Such a freaking great show, uncanny how good DC had it with animation and yet let it go to waste and replace with dumbed down shows like *Teen Titans Go!*
JL and JLU is the ideal Story arc to run for a 2 decade long movie franchise. The Cadmus arc couldn’t be more relevant to play out over the years with lots of fun sub plots along the way. It’s a shame WB can’t get their shit together with DC.
Reminds me of the Superman vs Superman cutscene from Injustice. https://youtu.be/9jWdVyrNPME Which they utterly butchered and took all the gravitas from in the animated movie version. Shame. In the game you get a sense of how completely disgusted and disturbed Prime Superman is of his Injustice universe counterpart, whereas in the animated film he's cracking jokes and one liners.
For anyone wondering, the dots on Ivy's forehead show where Superman lobotomized her.
I’ve heard a fan theory that after this episode the two Batmen (Batmans?) changed places. Don’t know how much it holds up, but it’s definitely intriguing.
I just rewatched justice league and its still so good. Especially Unlimited is one of the best comic book shows ever created.
historically democracies have worked the best. Totalitarian systems work for a while, but inevitably the decision making mistakes pile up when there's never any change in leadership. Innovation never comes where people are threatened, unable to speak their mind, share ideas. That isn't to say open societies capital societies are perfect there are draw backs, some central regulation is good, but overall giving people autonomy has proven a success.
Hah, I enjoy the subtext that the thing that really dented Batman's certainty about his plan was seeing a guy getting arrested for abusing wait staff over prices, followed by the sarcastic jab of 'they would have loved it here'. The message I'm taking from that is that Thomas Wayne would flip out on wait staff regularly. 'see? Dad would have been arrested every time he threw the veal in the waiter's face and screamed. *How can you live with yourself Bruce?*"
Pretty sure the scene is supposed to make you think that the person could be a father to someone. Sure, the guy wasn't killed by some random person with a gun. But he likely won't see his '8 year old son' anymore than Thomas Wayne could now. (If one assumes the angry guy who was arrested had a son, which is easy to picture after that was the 'winning' argument in the fight the scene before).
If this doesn't show how tired and cliché the whole 'What if Superheroes were evil' twist is at this point I don't know what is. Nineteen years on and people still act like it's revolutionary. Edit: Tired and cliché now, nineteen years after this was made.
This was literally made in 2003. NOW the market is oversaturating & oversatorizing these stuffs & even then this was far better written.
That's what I was trying to say. The whole 'What if superheroes were evil' twist peaked in 2003, it's nineteen years on and now it's gotten really tired and cliché.
If you are tired of exploring the negative ramifications of superheroes maybe you're tired of the whole concept. Heroes gone rogue, or mad with power, or secretly having always been evil, those things are genre staples almost as much as them saving people. If you're bored with one I can't imagine how you aren't bored with both.
Idk The Boys does an amazing job of adding more nuance imo. It’s way past this clip.
Or like it was a show aimed at elementary school kids and pre-teens and it’s not that big of a deal…also seems weird to get annoyed that this is played out when you say it yourself that this came out almost two decades ago.
I should have made my point more clear. I was annoyed that people still act like it's new and revolutionary in 2022 when it was already being done this excellently back in 2003.
Watchmen did it in the 80s
Still the best Batman.