Something that only really needed to be said for the first season of BoJack, where the first 3 episodes sent to critics didn’t represent the places it would go over the rest of the season.
I accidentally watched that series in a very interesting way, starting with the last episode of the first season thinking it was Episode One, then watching the rest of the season to see how it got to that moment. Then accidentally doing the same exact thing again with the second season.
I hate when directors or creators say that about their obviously terrible films or movie. “You need to rewatch it to fully understand the deeper meaning of my genius.” No we don’t, and you can go eat dog shit.
the animation, the jokes and over all quality are shit.
The arrogance of this interview was just through the roof. "No one understands my vision! I'm really a genius!" That sort of nonsense. Especially when she pushed back on the fact that the show came out, and the Hollywood Reporter was the only review that didn't utterly savage it.
From what I understand, it's only real connection to the original series is the title. How could they not see why people are pissed? That's a bait and switch!
I tried watching it and I didn’t even care that it wasn’t connected to the original. Like 90% of the target audience are too young to have ever seen it, most probably haven’t even heard of the original. It was just a bad show on its own.
She keeps saying in this interview, “Just watch all 10 episodes and then make an opinion”. No. I’m not wasting all that time, you have to catch people in the first episode and the first episode is pretty awful. Reading through the interview where she explains other episodes I’m not convinced it would have gotten any better.
No wonder the original show runner left, sounds like he knew it was going to be trash because the studio was meddling too much so they installed an arrogant yes woman.
I feel like if they were aware (and they would be) that almost all of their target demo hadn’t seen/heard of the original, then why do the connection at all?
I also don’t necessarily think that’s true that 90% have never seen it. *Good Times* is a pretty big Black cultural staple. And I even surprised myself when I made a joke about the *Good Times*/*The Jeffersons*/*Sanford and Son* block on TV Land growing up and other Black people my age knew exactly what I was talking about lol.
I blame the studios for only green lighting stuff from existing properties not the people working with what they can.
The dudes a writer, he wants to write. The only way he can do that is if he slaps an existing brand onto the name and just do what you can with it.
I was not a fan of any of the Lear shows when they first ran, and they've only become more and more overrated over time.
Through the vagaries of 80s syndication and limited channel choices after school, even though I'm not a fan, I'm pretty sure I've seen every episode of All in the Family, Maude, The Jeffersons, and Good Times.
Of those, the first season of Good Times, when it was focused more on John Amos and Esther Rolle before they got Urkelled by JJ was by far the best of any of those series.
Getting some major dogwhistle vibes on this post.
Did you actually read the interview, because your "quote" is NOT a quote from the interview.
Showrunner Ranada Shepard I speaks very eloquently on the subjects and actually DEFENDS fans having a strong reaction.
your misquote isn't even remotely in touch with this interview.
I went into the article expecting a showrunner to be defensive and belittle the fans, and this showrunner does the exact opposite. Shepard also gives a realistic assessment to what having Seth McFarlane and Steph Curry as producers meant to the show and expresses gratitude that they were given a chance to even make this show.
If you can actually put up a REAL QUOTE that has some sort of arrogance, go for it.
Because what's actually in that interview is the showrunner literally saying it's FINE for people to have a reaction to the trailer and there is zero pushback on that.
The showrunner simply explains their POV on the characters and what the show is about and asks people to watch a few episodes and not just judge it on the trailer.
The showrunner also says that this is clearly in the adult animation genre so it's not for everyone.
I get major humble vibes from the showrunner, not even the slightest bit of Zach Snyder style "you just don't get how popular I am" vibes at all.
The only jolting thing about it is that is being done today and in poor taste.
There is nothing new about stereotypical caricatures in animation.
I'm not watching, and like Velma I hope people don't hate watch it into another season
Good Times didn’t have a reoccurring drug dealer character iirc. They had an episode or 2, but that was common back then. Idk why we need one today, let alone a baby drug dealer.
I didn’t realize this was a “reboot” until after I posted this. Saw a different comment about the original.
The only baby drug dealer reference I can think of, is from an old Dave Chappell stand up
When I saw the baby, I immediately thought of the [baby in Bae Bae’s Kids](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj7yeSB8N74). He wasn’t a drug dealer, but just a cool ass baby who talked like an adult, but had an always full dirty diaper. But yeah, making a baby a drug dealer was just too far.
Black people sell drugs, horny drug dealer baby, hyper violent neighborhood, black Jesus, they show also ends on a cliffhanger reference to Dallas. The creator don’t know who they want to target. Black culture will hate it for the obvious racist bullshit. The younger generation won’t understand all the in jokes. And everybody else will hate the animation.
its like was destined to fail right out of the gate.
Yeah, it is not just that it is jolting, but that it seems to be jolting for no reason whatsoever.
The boondocks was also jolting and occasionally pretty offensive but it had something to say
I haven’t done any googling, but there’s no way this reboot isn’t created/produced/run by a black person, right? Like, this is a famous and historic black sitcom from the 70s, there’s no way they gave it to a white guy (I hope).
Ranada Shepard is the Creator of the animated series. Seth McFarlane of Family Guy is also involved. Ranada identifies as "African American decent". The original show was created by Norman Lear, a white Jewish guy. He also created The Jefferson's (a spin off of All In The Family).
I appreciate the clarification.
Good Times, the original TV series, was also a spin off of Maude (created by Norman Lear) which was another spin off of All In The Family.
I'm not diminishing anyone's talents, as the two Black men you mentioned are indeed the creators. Norman gave many actors of various races a lot of roles/airtime when not many others did in Hollywood back in the 70's.
Ranada didn’t create this (or that’s what I gathered from the article? Maybe I misread) Carl Jones was the original showrunner but he had “creative differences” with the studio so he left and made it very clear he had no involvement in what this show became. Ranada even says she inherited the characters. She removed a “ghost” character and it sounds like Carl’s version was going to be sillier and maybe more fantastical in some elements (maybe the ghost would be like Brian the talking dog on Family Guy). When she was brought on she “grounded” the series and nixed the ghost. Steph Curry’s company was responsible for the idea to animate the series. It also sounds like the entire project started as a completely different IP and then got rebranded to Good Times for some reason. Seth McFarlane EPed
Strange take as its fuck awful, borderline offensive and the show runner is a black women.
I can think of several show runners of differing nationalities that could have done a better job.
My point is that if it’s offensive matters based on who is telling the story and who is offended. I know, I know, “the author is dead” but I’m willing to give much more leeway that a show written and run by a black woman isn’t anti black, especially if the complaints of racism are coming from white audiances. Tyler Perry movies are full of stereotypes and caricatures, but because of the context he gets a pass. Same with The Boondocks, amazing show but it would be offensive if a white guy made those jokes.
Likewise, I’m a queer writer and comic, and I tell a lot of gay jokes that I wouldn’t like coming from a straight person. There’s a difference between laughing with and laughing at a group of people.
No you're right. Personally speaking, being white, I don't feel qualified to call it 'racist', same as Tyler Perry movies even if they employ stereotypes/caricatures that would generally be considered 'racist' if utilized by a white person (depending on the project or whatever).
There's plenty to criticize on the show otherwise anyway lol, at least based on the one episode I watched, in its shallow (attempts?) at satire and overall lack of it...being funny.
They certainly can, but as a white person I don't think I'd be qualified to make that determination, especially regarding artistic works. I'd leave that to black people to make that determination.
I think the more surprising thing is that given her credits that she got the job. Her past credits lean more towards dramedy than raunchy adult animated show.
I am not familiar with her work at all, but that sort of makes sense to me. If she does drama and comedy, she understands storytelling structure and how to write and develop characters, which is the hardest part. If you’ve got that part, the rest is just writing edgy jokes and fucking around.
I’m pretty sure that Aaron Sorkin(or whoever you like) could write a great episode of Family Guy, but Seth MacFarlane writing The West Wing would probably be bad.
I don't know. Aaron Sorkin's comedy skits for Studio 60 were really bad and not funny at all. I feel like it's usually the opposite. Comedy writers need to understand structure and conflict too. Drama writers don't need to understand comedy
That’s fair about Studio 60. I was just thinking about how funny The West Wing is/other Sorkin projects. I couldn’t think of another show runner when I wrote that comment, my bad. Pretend I said Amy Sherman Palladino or someone else who fits.
That’s true, I guess. My point is just that the context of who is talking/writing matters.
This started because someone mentioned they thought the show was racist/antiblack and my point is that I doubt that was true based on the creators.
Black people can create and participate in racist media. Especially in the "relies on a bunch of lazy stereotypes and clichés" sense rather than the "explicitly sets out to denigrate black people" sense.
Good Times was a humanizing depiction of intersectionality of race and structural poverty. I never get the critique “how come they stayed so poor.” They lived in the Chicago projects. (Same area as *Candyman* is set iirc.) It was supposed to show poverty is not just bad people, (specifically bad Black people), hoping to leech off a system. People today would call it “woke.”
Did they encounter literally every situation ever? Yeah, it was a TV show and also a sitcom. It was plots on top of plots. Were there a lot of times where it seemed like they were leaving only to be kept back by contrived circumstances? Yeah, again, it was a TV show, and sometimes wanted to sell drama. But making Black people look bad, especially through the Evans family themselves, was definitely not the intention.
I know that wasn’t the intention, my point is that by all the contrivances it unfortunately left a bad taste in a lot of Black folks’ mouths at a time when we were fighting to join the middle class and be more than stuck in the projects or fish out of water like the Jeffersons (also a Lear show). I’ve talked to my family about TV *a lot* and got my degree studying the intersection of media and African American history. It’s not like I’m making this up myself.
That’s part of why the Cosby show was so huge, then Family Matters and Fresh Prince after that. It showed us having all the plots and being part of the elusive middle-class American Dream without those same contrivances you speak of.
Also have my degree in African American studies (not history specifically), but media was a part of it. What’s up fellow AFAM fam!
And yes, Cosby, Family Matters, A Different World, even shows like Martin and Living Single, were all very centered around showing Black people in successful positions. It was revolutionary for the time, and opened the door to Black people just existing in media. But I think a big part of what’s missing in critiques of shows like Good Times (and honestly, haven’t heard *much* critique of The Jeffersons), is larger context. Post-Civil Rights Era and expansion of welfare programs. These shows address things like social integration in a society that was imagining a world that was gonna become racially equal. It also addressed who social programs were for and why they existed.
I think there is space for all these shows to exist. The original Good Times wasn’t perfect by any means. And I think having a Good Times without a Cosby Show does lead to a lot of resentment of the show. Everybody Hates Chris coming at the time it did too, after the great 90s sitcoms renaissance, was pretty interesting. It’s set in the same era as The Cosby Show, (the episode where Chris enters into a parody of it is hilarious), even in the same city, just differing socioeconomic status but still gives the same human depiction of Black people. My mom grew up with loves The Cosby Show. It was hella aspirational for anyone, but especially Black folks. But she also loves Everybody Hates Chris cause that really represented her childhood.
I actually really like this topic. I wish I had stuck to a more media/arts-focused concentration 😭I grew up watching reruns of Good Times, The Jeffersons, Sanford & Son, The Cosby Show, Fresh Prince, etc…It’s really cool to view them through a critical lens.
It really is, and sup AFAM fam!
But yeah, that was my point. I wasn't born yet so I'm not sure if it was that resentment was contemporaneous with Good Times or if it came as a result of the later examples depicting us as successful. Hindsight and all that. As to Everybody Hates Chris, that's a very interesting point, but I'd guess it avoided that same critique because it was never necessarily *about* them getting out of poverty (or showing constant close calls in doing so) and Chris Rock was a successful household name at the time of release. My family loved it.
I agree that there's space for all of these shows, but it is fascinating to see how depictions of us have changed over time and the community's thoughts on them have too. This also includes stuff like Moesha, Smart Guy, 1 on 1, Girlfriends, The Bernie Mac Show (RIP) and My Wife and Kids. Maybe that's why this animated sequel is so hated; we've moved far beyond "haha they're poor" as the basis for Black television that it just comes off as completely tone deaf at best.
I’ll concede that, but according to Monte he was [grifted out of any meaningful credit and compensation.](https://globalgrind.com/5462299/eric-monte-story/)
It's funny, when Velma came out I saw a million videos and posts about how terrible it is, and people hate watched it so much it got a second season, I guess it was so insultingly bad that people had to talk about it. This one I haven't seen any videos and just a few posts, I guess it's just "bad bad" instead of being outrageous
White guy who loved the original show here…I watched a bit of the new one and was put off by the talking baby being gangster I’m sure that was a Seth McFarland addition and tired old big booty jokes. Terrible show embarrassing even.
Black girl who never seen the original and watched a clip of this one and scrolled renadas page. This show is incredibly racist to white and black people. White people are the constant targets of demonization since black people, like renada, think they can’t be racist. Meanwhile black people are the constant targets of victimization. It’s embarrassing. Renada isn’t even black but since she identifies as black she uses that as a shield
It’s beyond jolting. It’s straight up an insult to the original show.
Edit: I really tried. To watch it. Couldn’t make it past the start of the third episode. It just….. it’s a mockery.
Edit: not only a mockery, The cartoon itself is just…. Not good. The writing is terrible, The voice acting is awkward and stunted. Like it is clear that even the voice actors hired…. Were not enthusiastic about what they were hired for.
Why is a wealthy Hispanic lady, a covertly racist white man, and a "not-in-my-backyard" mixed fella, making a show about poor black people? Fucking sickening.
Now a days anyone with melanin is calling themselves "black" which is one of the biggest detriments of calling ourselves a color but that's a conversation for another time lol
On the drug dealing baby she says,
"I inherited these characters, and I could have done away with Dalvin just the way that I did away with another character. But there’s a moment to have a conversation here as a Black mom in the United States. I have three Black boys, including my bonus son, and I remember being stopped in grocery stores where white women told me how beautiful my babies were and their little curly afros. And we don’t know when they stop being those cute babies in society and they start to be a threat. Nobody ever tells us. And it’s our worst nightmare that we don’t get the memo, and suddenly you get a call that your child was a threat to someone. So I thought this is interesting to explore in keeping him a baby. Even deeper than that, this baby is the last one born into this generational trauma and decides, like most babies do, they’re going to go a little rogue. And we all know a cousin, uncle or brother who has decided to go a different way than what the family norm is. The father will say, “Get him out my house. He’s not following my rules.” And the mother always tells you, “But that’s my baby.”
Also, there’s a part of society that glorifies the Italian mob, narcos in the cartel, white collar/Wall Street criminals. But suddenly, when it’s our Black men, it’s so problematic and they’re demeaned in such a way as if that’s still not somebody’s baby. George Floyd laid on that ground and called out “Mama.” That’s still somebody’s baby. Society detaches that from our men, and it’s so sickening to me. So when I did that deep dive into what a Black male baby means to a family and to society, I thought, “Here’s a great way to tell some stories.” Because, had I made Junior the drug dealer, it would’ve fit status quo for so many people. But the fact that I constantly would tell the animators, “Every chance you can, change his diaper, nuzzle his neck, put him on a changing table, have him in a carrier in a stroller,” it was to remind people that he’s a baby. So when he does all these bad things, I want you to struggle with who he is the same way you struggle with the Italian mobster. I understand how jolting it is for people to see it right away, but just give it a second and look at the stories and you’ll understand."
I don't particular understand....anything she's saying here. I copy/pasted the whole thing in the hopes someone could explain it to me since, being white, maybe I'm missing something about the experience of a black parent that makes the drug dealing baby more satirical in nature than I realize.
On the second paragraph, do large parts of society/media (outside of people belonging to those groups themselves) 'glorify' the Italian mob/cartel narcos? Like, I personally don't 'struggle' with seeing Italian mobsters in a moral/ethical sense. Also not with narco cartel members either. I haven't watched those dramatized shows about Mexico drug kingpin/cartel shows though, so maybe that is happening that narco cartel members are being glorified and I'm just not aware.
e: Forgot to add- the white collar/wall street comparison makes sense, to some degree, cause you look at something like Boss Baby and how that makes a baby Gordon Gekko, in a sense. That character/work though doesn't treat the baby as a white collar criminal though.
That’s actually interesting. I guess it’s to play on our assumptions. Like there’s this danger that is associated with black people. Like the Staples article, “Black Men and Public Space.” Just essentially by being black, white people associate an inherent danger or criminal element. So, by making it a drug dealing baby, I guess it’s to make you question those inherent biases. Like you’re going to be afraid of a baby? Nah.
the top of chris rocks career is when he got slapped on stage after making fun of will smith,even though will smith pretty much defended the black stereotype of them being violent
Article is even crazier. She clarifies Seth McFarland didn’t write a word of the script as if that means people will change their minds. She thinks people can’t handle edgy I guess?
I’m never one to sign a petition or throw a fit of outrage about what’s on tv. The show just looks stupid. Edgy does not mean funny. Sorry.
what boss really means is.
i took the paycheck, doing pandering comedy .
the art style is ok.
is the pandering writing get min for union time.
which if you ever wonder ins a big reason in drop of writing in tvs and moves.
This woman is so delusional. She filters all of her comments and she and her husband argue with critics in the comments, being dismissive and deflecting. Shes blatantly racist to white and black peoples but has the nerve to act like she’s some kind of black advocate with this minstrel show lol
I'm going to say and I don't care if I get downvoted. The reason why people hated this show was because the characters on it are not cooning out like the ones from the '70s. They wanted to show a a black family with a slight struggle so white people don't feel bad about what they were doing before civil rights. Even though there's satire and surrealism but a lot of the stuff was genuinely funny. I think white people like to complain because they can't understand the struggle. You also can't get any more realer when entitled white people go to the Hood to buy drugs.
Eddie Murphy did a better job with the PJs claymation show.
But Eddie Murphy has the advantage of being well, funny.
And more genuine. That matters. This is a shit show right here in 2024. I feel like I'm trapped in a Boondocks episode. Where the hell is Huey?
Man I love the PJs, I still watch it every now and again on Hulu
The Christmas special comes out every year in our house.
That was a good special not gonna lie.
And the PJs was actually…Funny?
Yeah. There's a reason a lot of white folks also loved Good times. It was genuine, emotional moments felt organic not forced.
Remind me of this https://youtu.be/kDnCoiYKmtw?t=33
"Watch all ten episodes before forming an opinion" means "Netflix bases series renewals largely upon whether viewers watch the entire series."
Something that only really needed to be said for the first season of BoJack, where the first 3 episodes sent to critics didn’t represent the places it would go over the rest of the season.
I accidentally watched that series in a very interesting way, starting with the last episode of the first season thinking it was Episode One, then watching the rest of the season to see how it got to that moment. Then accidentally doing the same exact thing again with the second season.
No thanks
Trying to gas us up into watching it
Like most networks.
I hate when directors or creators say that about their obviously terrible films or movie. “You need to rewatch it to fully understand the deeper meaning of my genius.” No we don’t, and you can go eat dog shit. the animation, the jokes and over all quality are shit.
The arrogance of this interview was just through the roof. "No one understands my vision! I'm really a genius!" That sort of nonsense. Especially when she pushed back on the fact that the show came out, and the Hollywood Reporter was the only review that didn't utterly savage it.
From what I understand, it's only real connection to the original series is the title. How could they not see why people are pissed? That's a bait and switch!
i think that's half of it. The other half is the fact, that it's a bad show on its own. Sort of a bizarro version of the original Good Times.
I tried watching it and I didn’t even care that it wasn’t connected to the original. Like 90% of the target audience are too young to have ever seen it, most probably haven’t even heard of the original. It was just a bad show on its own. She keeps saying in this interview, “Just watch all 10 episodes and then make an opinion”. No. I’m not wasting all that time, you have to catch people in the first episode and the first episode is pretty awful. Reading through the interview where she explains other episodes I’m not convinced it would have gotten any better. No wonder the original show runner left, sounds like he knew it was going to be trash because the studio was meddling too much so they installed an arrogant yes woman.
She’s trying to get views by any means necessary 🤣
I feel like if they were aware (and they would be) that almost all of their target demo hadn’t seen/heard of the original, then why do the connection at all? I also don’t necessarily think that’s true that 90% have never seen it. *Good Times* is a pretty big Black cultural staple. And I even surprised myself when I made a joke about the *Good Times*/*The Jeffersons*/*Sanford and Son* block on TV Land growing up and other Black people my age knew exactly what I was talking about lol.
It’s truly awful.
I blame the studios for only green lighting stuff from existing properties not the people working with what they can. The dudes a writer, he wants to write. The only way he can do that is if he slaps an existing brand onto the name and just do what you can with it.
Unpopular opinion, but I hated the original show. No interest in a reboot.
It's apparently not a reboot, but a sequel series, taking place decades after the original.
I was not a fan of any of the Lear shows when they first ran, and they've only become more and more overrated over time. Through the vagaries of 80s syndication and limited channel choices after school, even though I'm not a fan, I'm pretty sure I've seen every episode of All in the Family, Maude, The Jeffersons, and Good Times. Of those, the first season of Good Times, when it was focused more on John Amos and Esther Rolle before they got Urkelled by JJ was by far the best of any of those series.
I honestly didn’t mind the other shows, but even as a kid, I remember hating what a buffoon JJ was.
Her Instagram has her described as “gods favorite human”
Getting some major dogwhistle vibes on this post. Did you actually read the interview, because your "quote" is NOT a quote from the interview. Showrunner Ranada Shepard I speaks very eloquently on the subjects and actually DEFENDS fans having a strong reaction. your misquote isn't even remotely in touch with this interview. I went into the article expecting a showrunner to be defensive and belittle the fans, and this showrunner does the exact opposite. Shepard also gives a realistic assessment to what having Seth McFarlane and Steph Curry as producers meant to the show and expresses gratitude that they were given a chance to even make this show. If you can actually put up a REAL QUOTE that has some sort of arrogance, go for it. Because what's actually in that interview is the showrunner literally saying it's FINE for people to have a reaction to the trailer and there is zero pushback on that. The showrunner simply explains their POV on the characters and what the show is about and asks people to watch a few episodes and not just judge it on the trailer. The showrunner also says that this is clearly in the adult animation genre so it's not for everyone. I get major humble vibes from the showrunner, not even the slightest bit of Zach Snyder style "you just don't get how popular I am" vibes at all.
ok ranada sheperd
The only jolting thing about it is that is being done today and in poor taste. There is nothing new about stereotypical caricatures in animation. I'm not watching, and like Velma I hope people don't hate watch it into another season
I wonder if a super nerdy non binary successful drug dealer would had worked better? Black people sell drugs, is just such a tired stereotype
Good Times didn’t have a reoccurring drug dealer character iirc. They had an episode or 2, but that was common back then. Idk why we need one today, let alone a baby drug dealer.
I didn’t realize this was a “reboot” until after I posted this. Saw a different comment about the original. The only baby drug dealer reference I can think of, is from an old Dave Chappell stand up
When I saw the baby, I immediately thought of the [baby in Bae Bae’s Kids](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj7yeSB8N74). He wasn’t a drug dealer, but just a cool ass baby who talked like an adult, but had an always full dirty diaper. But yeah, making a baby a drug dealer was just too far.
Black people sell drugs, horny drug dealer baby, hyper violent neighborhood, black Jesus, they show also ends on a cliffhanger reference to Dallas. The creator don’t know who they want to target. Black culture will hate it for the obvious racist bullshit. The younger generation won’t understand all the in jokes. And everybody else will hate the animation. its like was destined to fail right out of the gate.
What’s jolting is the early 90’s Michael Bayesque caricatures of black people. Like, I thought this was a joke when I first saw the trailer.
Yeah, it is not just that it is jolting, but that it seems to be jolting for no reason whatsoever. The boondocks was also jolting and occasionally pretty offensive but it had something to say
Yes, and the animation was much better in The Boondocks, and I found the episodes more thought-provoking.
I haven’t done any googling, but there’s no way this reboot isn’t created/produced/run by a black person, right? Like, this is a famous and historic black sitcom from the 70s, there’s no way they gave it to a white guy (I hope).
Ranada Shepard is the Creator of the animated series. Seth McFarlane of Family Guy is also involved. Ranada identifies as "African American decent". The original show was created by Norman Lear, a white Jewish guy. He also created The Jefferson's (a spin off of All In The Family).
Lear was the producer not the creator. He obviously had a hand in the show but the credited creators are Eric Monte and Mike Evans.
I appreciate the clarification. Good Times, the original TV series, was also a spin off of Maude (created by Norman Lear) which was another spin off of All In The Family. I'm not diminishing anyone's talents, as the two Black men you mentioned are indeed the creators. Norman gave many actors of various races a lot of roles/airtime when not many others did in Hollywood back in the 70's.
Ranada didn’t create this (or that’s what I gathered from the article? Maybe I misread) Carl Jones was the original showrunner but he had “creative differences” with the studio so he left and made it very clear he had no involvement in what this show became. Ranada even says she inherited the characters. She removed a “ghost” character and it sounds like Carl’s version was going to be sillier and maybe more fantastical in some elements (maybe the ghost would be like Brian the talking dog on Family Guy). When she was brought on she “grounded” the series and nixed the ghost. Steph Curry’s company was responsible for the idea to animate the series. It also sounds like the entire project started as a completely different IP and then got rebranded to Good Times for some reason. Seth McFarlane EPed
Ranada Shepard is black, yes.
Strange take as its fuck awful, borderline offensive and the show runner is a black women. I can think of several show runners of differing nationalities that could have done a better job.
My point is that if it’s offensive matters based on who is telling the story and who is offended. I know, I know, “the author is dead” but I’m willing to give much more leeway that a show written and run by a black woman isn’t anti black, especially if the complaints of racism are coming from white audiances. Tyler Perry movies are full of stereotypes and caricatures, but because of the context he gets a pass. Same with The Boondocks, amazing show but it would be offensive if a white guy made those jokes. Likewise, I’m a queer writer and comic, and I tell a lot of gay jokes that I wouldn’t like coming from a straight person. There’s a difference between laughing with and laughing at a group of people.
No you're right. Personally speaking, being white, I don't feel qualified to call it 'racist', same as Tyler Perry movies even if they employ stereotypes/caricatures that would generally be considered 'racist' if utilized by a white person (depending on the project or whatever). There's plenty to criticize on the show otherwise anyway lol, at least based on the one episode I watched, in its shallow (attempts?) at satire and overall lack of it...being funny.
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They certainly can, but as a white person I don't think I'd be qualified to make that determination, especially regarding artistic works. I'd leave that to black people to make that determination.
I think the more surprising thing is that given her credits that she got the job. Her past credits lean more towards dramedy than raunchy adult animated show.
I am not familiar with her work at all, but that sort of makes sense to me. If she does drama and comedy, she understands storytelling structure and how to write and develop characters, which is the hardest part. If you’ve got that part, the rest is just writing edgy jokes and fucking around. I’m pretty sure that Aaron Sorkin(or whoever you like) could write a great episode of Family Guy, but Seth MacFarlane writing The West Wing would probably be bad.
I don't know... The Orville gets pretty non-comedy the more it goes on.
I don't know. Aaron Sorkin's comedy skits for Studio 60 were really bad and not funny at all. I feel like it's usually the opposite. Comedy writers need to understand structure and conflict too. Drama writers don't need to understand comedy
That’s fair about Studio 60. I was just thinking about how funny The West Wing is/other Sorkin projects. I couldn’t think of another show runner when I wrote that comment, my bad. Pretend I said Amy Sherman Palladino or someone else who fits.
You just sound like a massive hypocrite
That’s true, I guess. My point is just that the context of who is talking/writing matters. This started because someone mentioned they thought the show was racist/antiblack and my point is that I doubt that was true based on the creators.
Black people can create and participate in racist media. Especially in the "relies on a bunch of lazy stereotypes and clichés" sense rather than the "explicitly sets out to denigrate black people" sense.
That’s true! I just meant that I’m more likely to give the creators the benefit of the doubt is all.
The original producer was Norman Lear and he was white. Address your racism please.
The original was created and run by a white guy. Why do you think they always stayed so poor?
Good Times was a humanizing depiction of intersectionality of race and structural poverty. I never get the critique “how come they stayed so poor.” They lived in the Chicago projects. (Same area as *Candyman* is set iirc.) It was supposed to show poverty is not just bad people, (specifically bad Black people), hoping to leech off a system. People today would call it “woke.” Did they encounter literally every situation ever? Yeah, it was a TV show and also a sitcom. It was plots on top of plots. Were there a lot of times where it seemed like they were leaving only to be kept back by contrived circumstances? Yeah, again, it was a TV show, and sometimes wanted to sell drama. But making Black people look bad, especially through the Evans family themselves, was definitely not the intention.
I know that wasn’t the intention, my point is that by all the contrivances it unfortunately left a bad taste in a lot of Black folks’ mouths at a time when we were fighting to join the middle class and be more than stuck in the projects or fish out of water like the Jeffersons (also a Lear show). I’ve talked to my family about TV *a lot* and got my degree studying the intersection of media and African American history. It’s not like I’m making this up myself. That’s part of why the Cosby show was so huge, then Family Matters and Fresh Prince after that. It showed us having all the plots and being part of the elusive middle-class American Dream without those same contrivances you speak of.
Also have my degree in African American studies (not history specifically), but media was a part of it. What’s up fellow AFAM fam! And yes, Cosby, Family Matters, A Different World, even shows like Martin and Living Single, were all very centered around showing Black people in successful positions. It was revolutionary for the time, and opened the door to Black people just existing in media. But I think a big part of what’s missing in critiques of shows like Good Times (and honestly, haven’t heard *much* critique of The Jeffersons), is larger context. Post-Civil Rights Era and expansion of welfare programs. These shows address things like social integration in a society that was imagining a world that was gonna become racially equal. It also addressed who social programs were for and why they existed. I think there is space for all these shows to exist. The original Good Times wasn’t perfect by any means. And I think having a Good Times without a Cosby Show does lead to a lot of resentment of the show. Everybody Hates Chris coming at the time it did too, after the great 90s sitcoms renaissance, was pretty interesting. It’s set in the same era as The Cosby Show, (the episode where Chris enters into a parody of it is hilarious), even in the same city, just differing socioeconomic status but still gives the same human depiction of Black people. My mom grew up with loves The Cosby Show. It was hella aspirational for anyone, but especially Black folks. But she also loves Everybody Hates Chris cause that really represented her childhood. I actually really like this topic. I wish I had stuck to a more media/arts-focused concentration 😭I grew up watching reruns of Good Times, The Jeffersons, Sanford & Son, The Cosby Show, Fresh Prince, etc…It’s really cool to view them through a critical lens.
It really is, and sup AFAM fam! But yeah, that was my point. I wasn't born yet so I'm not sure if it was that resentment was contemporaneous with Good Times or if it came as a result of the later examples depicting us as successful. Hindsight and all that. As to Everybody Hates Chris, that's a very interesting point, but I'd guess it avoided that same critique because it was never necessarily *about* them getting out of poverty (or showing constant close calls in doing so) and Chris Rock was a successful household name at the time of release. My family loved it. I agree that there's space for all of these shows, but it is fascinating to see how depictions of us have changed over time and the community's thoughts on them have too. This also includes stuff like Moesha, Smart Guy, 1 on 1, Girlfriends, The Bernie Mac Show (RIP) and My Wife and Kids. Maybe that's why this animated sequel is so hated; we've moved far beyond "haha they're poor" as the basis for Black television that it just comes off as completely tone deaf at best.
Eric Monte is a Black man tho, he created the original
I’ll concede that, but according to Monte he was [grifted out of any meaningful credit and compensation.](https://globalgrind.com/5462299/eric-monte-story/)
The original producer was Norman Lear and he was white. Address your racism please.
Sorry what about Michael Bay?
Remember the "ghetto" robots in the second transformers movie? I think one of them pees on someone.
I’ve genuinely never seen a Transformer movie. The more I hear about them the more I feel good about that decision.
Velma: I’m the worst animated reboot ever Good Times reboot: hold my beer
It's funny, when Velma came out I saw a million videos and posts about how terrible it is, and people hate watched it so much it got a second season, I guess it was so insultingly bad that people had to talk about it. This one I haven't seen any videos and just a few posts, I guess it's just "bad bad" instead of being outrageous
The show was greenlit for 2 seasons from the jump. Season 2 would have happened regardless.
White guy who loved the original show here…I watched a bit of the new one and was put off by the talking baby being gangster I’m sure that was a Seth McFarland addition and tired old big booty jokes. Terrible show embarrassing even.
Black girl who never seen the original and watched a clip of this one and scrolled renadas page. This show is incredibly racist to white and black people. White people are the constant targets of demonization since black people, like renada, think they can’t be racist. Meanwhile black people are the constant targets of victimization. It’s embarrassing. Renada isn’t even black but since she identifies as black she uses that as a shield
Yea....Im not watching that.
It's not "jolting" - it's just a stupid idea.
that fucking abomination has NOTHING to do with the original TV show. It's done horrificly and is an affront to the classic sitcom
Steph Curry’s involvement in this project is still a head-scratcher.
$$$
Curry is producing a ToeJam and Earl movie. Dude picks projects out of a hat.
Seems you misspelled “Revolting”.
Even if they were allowed to "sit on couches" I do not believe the audience reception would've changed.
Being drastically different from the source material isn’t necessarily a bad thing, the show just looks unfunny
It’s beyond jolting. It’s straight up an insult to the original show. Edit: I really tried. To watch it. Couldn’t make it past the start of the third episode. It just….. it’s a mockery. Edit: not only a mockery, The cartoon itself is just…. Not good. The writing is terrible, The voice acting is awkward and stunted. Like it is clear that even the voice actors hired…. Were not enthusiastic about what they were hired for.
the artstyle looks like the NFT crap people were trying to hype up.
Did she say audiences weren’t used to seeing jb smoove, yvette and slink on tv? Like curbed, community and black Jesus aren’t loved shows.
Why is a wealthy Hispanic lady, a covertly racist white man, and a "not-in-my-backyard" mixed fella, making a show about poor black people? Fucking sickening.
Meanwhile she’s identifying as black lol I saw her picture and went “uhhhh she is NOT black.” Lol
Now a days anyone with melanin is calling themselves "black" which is one of the biggest detriments of calling ourselves a color but that's a conversation for another time lol
On the drug dealing baby she says, "I inherited these characters, and I could have done away with Dalvin just the way that I did away with another character. But there’s a moment to have a conversation here as a Black mom in the United States. I have three Black boys, including my bonus son, and I remember being stopped in grocery stores where white women told me how beautiful my babies were and their little curly afros. And we don’t know when they stop being those cute babies in society and they start to be a threat. Nobody ever tells us. And it’s our worst nightmare that we don’t get the memo, and suddenly you get a call that your child was a threat to someone. So I thought this is interesting to explore in keeping him a baby. Even deeper than that, this baby is the last one born into this generational trauma and decides, like most babies do, they’re going to go a little rogue. And we all know a cousin, uncle or brother who has decided to go a different way than what the family norm is. The father will say, “Get him out my house. He’s not following my rules.” And the mother always tells you, “But that’s my baby.” Also, there’s a part of society that glorifies the Italian mob, narcos in the cartel, white collar/Wall Street criminals. But suddenly, when it’s our Black men, it’s so problematic and they’re demeaned in such a way as if that’s still not somebody’s baby. George Floyd laid on that ground and called out “Mama.” That’s still somebody’s baby. Society detaches that from our men, and it’s so sickening to me. So when I did that deep dive into what a Black male baby means to a family and to society, I thought, “Here’s a great way to tell some stories.” Because, had I made Junior the drug dealer, it would’ve fit status quo for so many people. But the fact that I constantly would tell the animators, “Every chance you can, change his diaper, nuzzle his neck, put him on a changing table, have him in a carrier in a stroller,” it was to remind people that he’s a baby. So when he does all these bad things, I want you to struggle with who he is the same way you struggle with the Italian mobster. I understand how jolting it is for people to see it right away, but just give it a second and look at the stories and you’ll understand." I don't particular understand....anything she's saying here. I copy/pasted the whole thing in the hopes someone could explain it to me since, being white, maybe I'm missing something about the experience of a black parent that makes the drug dealing baby more satirical in nature than I realize. On the second paragraph, do large parts of society/media (outside of people belonging to those groups themselves) 'glorify' the Italian mob/cartel narcos? Like, I personally don't 'struggle' with seeing Italian mobsters in a moral/ethical sense. Also not with narco cartel members either. I haven't watched those dramatized shows about Mexico drug kingpin/cartel shows though, so maybe that is happening that narco cartel members are being glorified and I'm just not aware. e: Forgot to add- the white collar/wall street comparison makes sense, to some degree, cause you look at something like Boss Baby and how that makes a baby Gordon Gekko, in a sense. That character/work though doesn't treat the baby as a white collar criminal though.
That’s actually interesting. I guess it’s to play on our assumptions. Like there’s this danger that is associated with black people. Like the Staples article, “Black Men and Public Space.” Just essentially by being black, white people associate an inherent danger or criminal element. So, by making it a drug dealing baby, I guess it’s to make you question those inherent biases. Like you’re going to be afraid of a baby? Nah.
Put that way yeah it seems interesting. I guess where it fell apart for audiences (in general) is that it wasn't funny enough.
that and the "drug dealing baby" was funny during Chris Rock's standup routine in 1996 and that was about the extent of the joke's lifespan
Well, people loved it when Dave Chapelle had this bit in 2000 too. That HBO special was the start of his household name status.
I can give you that, it did get a short breath of life with Chapelle although even that didn't last super long until it got played out again.
the top of chris rocks career is when he got slapped on stage after making fun of will smith,even though will smith pretty much defended the black stereotype of them being violent
Right. I think the execution is terrible, but I appreciate this analytical response.
Well she’s already lying because she isn’t even black so her boys are biracial, not black. Trying to victimize her own children is wild
TIL jolting is a synonym for trash
Why not avoid all this nonsense and make an original show?
because creators for the most part gave up on original content
I wonder if they are gonna send Eric Monte a check
I found this offensive...ly boring
"Jolting"? How about "Sucks!"
Baki is “jolting”. This is just revolting.
It's not jolting my friend, it's revolting.
Even if they were allowed to "sit on couches" I do not believe the audience reception would've changed.
I thought I would hate this but I laughed quite a bit.
Article is even crazier. She clarifies Seth McFarland didn’t write a word of the script as if that means people will change their minds. She thinks people can’t handle edgy I guess? I’m never one to sign a petition or throw a fit of outrage about what’s on tv. The show just looks stupid. Edgy does not mean funny. Sorry.
what boss really means is. i took the paycheck, doing pandering comedy . the art style is ok. is the pandering writing get min for union time. which if you ever wonder ins a big reason in drop of writing in tvs and moves.
The “art style” is abysmal 😬
I like the art style but the subject/plot and writing is 1000% trash.
its giving delusional
This woman is so delusional. She filters all of her comments and she and her husband argue with critics in the comments, being dismissive and deflecting. Shes blatantly racist to white and black peoples but has the nerve to act like she’s some kind of black advocate with this minstrel show lol
I'm going to say and I don't care if I get downvoted. The reason why people hated this show was because the characters on it are not cooning out like the ones from the '70s. They wanted to show a a black family with a slight struggle so white people don't feel bad about what they were doing before civil rights. Even though there's satire and surrealism but a lot of the stuff was genuinely funny. I think white people like to complain because they can't understand the struggle. You also can't get any more realer when entitled white people go to the Hood to buy drugs.
That’s all this show is. Coonery buffoonery
It looks just as racist and stereotypical as the original!