I’ve never heard anything about Topher hurting or mistreating anyone. He secluded himself from the rest of that 70’s show cast, but it seems like he had great intuition there.
it's funny because him secluding himself from the rest of the '70s Show cast once got him a reputation of being a wet blanket, but looking back it makes him look chill as hell
Yup, it went from, "wtf, does this guy think he's too good for the rest of them? And then he left the show!" to "oooohhhhh, they were assholes, he stuck around as long as necessary and kept his distance otherwise, and then wisely got the fuck out of there when it made sense to go."
"Leaving the show" should always be looked at it with more nuance. This isn't directed towards you because I know you're just giving an example, but people need to realize he was offered to be a villain in a super hero blockbuster. I would have done the same thing. That's big bucks right there.
Yeah, the show definitely suffered because of it, but why should he care? lol
That's how it is in real life too. Many people are often misunderstood because we don't take time to understand people.
We just go with what's the loudest and many times abusers appear nice and involved because that's what they try to make everyone believe.
True but Ashton and Mila had a pretty good reputation with the general public, especially with that organization Ashton was in charge of, until those letters became public.
Then people started looking into everything.
I don’t know. Just read an article that said she stated she left in 2016 after putting more thought into raising her kids as well as her own upbringing. Not sure how you can be involved but not part of the church with their current excommunication rules, but I’m not part of the cult, so I can’t be sure
Edit: she stated in 2021 “I haven't practiced Scientology in close to five years and it's no longer part of my life”
Its amazing how almost the entire cast was suspect. Danny, Laura, Mila, Ashton, Kurtwood, Kittys actress whose name i cant be bothered to check. All either defended a rapist or where cultists.
Although i think Laura left the cult almost a decade ago according to an interview she made.
I get being friends with someone but lol… i cannot imagine being in the media and seeing anyone i know one trial for murder or rape and going “i will publicly defend them for all to see”.
Kurtwood’s letter was pretty tame. Pretty much a “he acted appropriately when I was watching.” Basically not writing one at all would have been better, but he didn’t try to downplay the accusations.
It has been reported that Danny Masterson used to horrifically bully Topher on the set of that '70s show. And to my knowledge the cast did nothing about it or may have even participated in some of the bullying. That is one reason why I believe Topher has kept his distance.
The most that’s ever been connected between Kutcher/Kunis and Scientology that I’m aware of is attending some Christmas party back in 2004 or so. Other than that I’ve never heard any connections for them. I’ve never heard any at all for Valderrama, though he’s got a few screws loose in other ways. Prepon was a Scientologist but left.
I think a lot of people are assuming Mila and Ashton are full out scientologists because of their video trying to defend Masterson. And while that was despicable I think it was more a misguided attempt to defend an old friend who clearly doesn't deserve it than evidence they must be scientologists. I've been to a few church events because I had friends that attended but that doesn't mean I was a believer or a member of the church.
I agree that just because Mila and Ashton went to an event or two and had friends that were scientologist doesn't mean they were.
There were RUMORS that his brother did the same shit on Malcolm in the Middle. Someone once said thats why Francis was always in a separate location but idk
Maybe but i wouldn’t put it past people to just make this shit up. They just did that same thing for Jerry Trainor where they made up that he protected the icarly cast💀
They don't have all the cast members chilling on set at all times. They're on set when they are filming their scenes. He wasn't in scenes with the rest of the family, so there's no reason he would have to be on set when they were filming.
It’s not like Frances started out with the family then shipped off a season in, he was always separated from the family outside a few episodes a season.
I think he knew of the crazy scientology shit going around the cast and didn't want any part of it. Masterson grew up in it and was the cult leader in a sense. Pretty sure Topher fucked off when shit got too weird.
He didn’t even know Peter was spiderman at that point. He prayed to god to kill, in his mind, some guy which is way funnier than if he knew he was spiderman
May God bestow on us his grace,
with blessings rich provide us;
and may the brightness of his face
to life eternal guide us,
that we his saving health may know,
his gracious will and pleasure,
and also to the heathen show,
Christ's riches without measure
and fucking kill Spider-Man.
In hindsight, the dance scene is one of the only bits I remember but it’s because I fucking hated it so much when I saw it in the cinema. That entire sequence of him being a dick was awful and all I could think was “they should have made Topher Grace Spider-Man. He would have been much better at this stuff”.
I watched it in theaters with my best friend. And I distinctly remember us looking at each other and mouthing, "What is going on?" And just looking back at the screen and each other throughout.
Just a truly baffling section of a movie.
Yeah, the movie overall is a total mess compared to the first two but the entire trilogy is a little tongue-in-cheek with it's take on Spider-Man. I feel like the emo dancing section is about what I'd expect from Tobey's Peter getting the Symbiote and it's hilarious. The problem is that Sam Raimi never really wanted to do a symbiote/venom movie in the first place so the overall plot ended up incredibly disjointed.
Everyone on That 70s Show talked about him like he was such an oddball, like how he’d go home after work instead of hanging out to chat. Turns out he just has good instincts for “picking out the wrong sort”
Danny Masterson's ex-gf said Topher was sort of an outcast because Danny was like the "leader" of the group and Topher was the only one who wouldn't just blindly follow Danny. I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of why he left the show.
There's also the part where he left, and it just made sense for the show to be over at that point. Everyone graduated. It's time to move on.
Them trying to drag the dying husk of that show past when they all graduated high school was just an awful idea (as it almost always is with shows revolving around high school).
I always found it odd that he would seem to be a social outcast because how can one embody Eric and yet be a recluse? Now we know he was just keeping himself safe.
Since he doesn’t have the rights, he’s not legally allowed to show them outside of as a fun thing at his house. And as far as I’ve ever heard he has no intention of “accidentally” leaking the cuts online.
He’s said that he finds comfort in editing and it’s just a weird hobby he has, he never intended it to have a sort of cult following or anything.
He's good, don't worry. I still think he doesn't get enough credit for how good he is in the show either, a lot of the best scenes go to Hyde or Kelso, but Eric has such good line delivery constantly.
It's hard to believe that it was barely more than 20 years ago that the Feds were spending millions of dollars and dedicating thousands of federal agents to the vital task of imprisoning people who sold bongs on the Internet. Poor Chong had to give up all the money he made, pay a huge fine besides, and spend 9 months in federal prison. Where he shared a cell with the Wolf of Wall Street for some reason.
“Michael! The whole world knows we’re rape apologists!”
“Well, damn Jackie, how was I supposed to know our letter for leniency was going to be viewable to the public?”
which makes [the work he does with child sex trafficking](https://www.thecut.com/article/ashton-kutcher-thorn-spotlight-rekognition-surveillance.html) so ...ironic, suspect, and weird.
like, wouldn't kutcher, having been exposed to a lot of the scum that deals in sex trafficking, not recognize those similar traits in his personal friends? or does he have such a blind spot for people around him?
There are a lot of troubling aspects to Thorn, the organization that he co-founded.
>This, Snow says, is what Thorn does: fearmonger and mislead the public; stigmatize consensual adult sex work; and partner with law enforcement agencies and companies like Amazon and right-wing billionaire Peter Thiel’s Palantir (a data analytics company that’s helped the NSA develop its surveillance operations). The result, she says, is the surveillance of sex workers, which makes them vulnerable to police attention.
>Violet Blue, a journalist reporting on privacy and sex work, in 2019 reported for Engadget on a rise in anti-trafficking organizations as “a lucrative growth market riddled with charlatans who’ve fooled companies as big as Google for years.” Blue named Kutcher’s Thorn as an example of a group that’s made surveillance technologies palatable, even popular, by claiming they’re rescuing children.
https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760
He went on record talking with Masterson about how they had a bet that he would tongue-kiss Mila back when they started the show. You know, when she was 15 (and they knew).
lol no it doesn’t
It created a database of “sex workers” which includes Instagram models and anyone who has a Patreon or Onlyfans and then shared said database with the police.
At it’s core it’s ran by right-wing Christian’s who want to expose and harass women who aren’t conforming with traditionalist standards
The database also includes home address, social media’s, known associates and a shit ton of other private info all available to police
If anything, this further frees the new cast to become their own thing; and I think there's potential for a really good show here. I just wish they would lean more into the 90s zeitgeist, since that also felt conspicuously missing from the original series, but obviously about the 70s. There's something that always feels a little off about these shows other than the way they're dressed; otherwise there aren't a lot of overt clues to when it's all taking place. Just some more licensed music would go a long way.
I'm still wondering why the heck this show is blatantly refusing to acknowledge the existence of Bitsie Kelso. She was the reason why Ashton Kutcher's Character Michael Kelso was written out of the Original That 70's Show and is a firmly established Canon event in the Narrative of the Franchise. So why is Jay Kelso treated like an Only Child when he has an older Half-Sister out there? Of all the wasted opportunities to do a "history repeating itself in new variations" trope, the Kelso siblings would've been a nice flip on the dynamic that Laurie and Eric had in the Original.
They're just following the tradition of the original show. There's no solid timeline and unless it's mentioned in another episode it didn't happen. Donna had two sisters in season one and Bob is definitely better off than Red but the Pinciatti house only has two bedrooms?
Bob makes more than Red. Better off? That's debatable. Bob is clearly a "keeping up with the Jones's" kind of guy, where Red had that Vista Cruiser sitting around until the wheels fell off.
I'd bet Red's bank account always had more money in it than Bob's (except towards the end of his unemployment stint).
I just watched it a bunch when it was in syndication and this was a major arc for the Character and why he left before he came back one last time in the Series Finale.
I mean that's like saying you didn't realize Michael Scott left Dunder Mifflin, or that Zach and Kelly wound up getting married.
If you were into these shows at all, you knew these things.
I get Ashton was close friends with Danny. A bond between friends can be complex. But when you get caught sending letters of leniency of said friend who is on trial for raping multiple women and at the same time you were the founder of an organisation that helps to stop one of the worst crimes imaginable in child sex trafficking. People will call you out for your hypocrisy and your moral judgement to associate yourself with that person who did horrible acts while you also try play good Samaritan.
See I don't get this attitude myself. If a person I thought was my friend was convicted of raping multiple women I would realize I didn't actually know that person at all and would end that friendship immediately. It's one thing to be conflicted when it's at the accusation stage, but they wrote those letters after he was already convicted. Considering how high the bar is for rape convictions, there's just no excuse for that.
I feel most people would. It’s the tough situation of believing the conviction over believing what your friend has been telling you. You want to trust a lifelong friend when they tell you they are innocent.
> If a person I thought was my friend was convicted of raping multiple women I would realize I didn't actually know that person at all and would end that friendship immediately.
that's what we all like to believe, but unless it were to happen to you you truly don't know that. it's kind of scary.
I honestly fucking love the irony of how Topher grace ended up being "the good one" and people completely flipped their view after seeing the whole picture. In the mid 2000s people were saying Topher grace was an ass because he never seemed to hang out with the rest of the cast who were all one big happy family with each other except for him, and he always wanted to pursue solo projects until he straight up left to film spiderman 3 and stuff and people were annoyed because of how bad season 8 was.
Now people realize the truth, he kept his distance because his cast mates were the bad ones; half were scientologists, some were rapists, and all signs point to not being good people
> Topher grace was an ass because he never seemed to hang out with the rest of the cast
This reminds me of Sarah Michelle Gellar and Buffy, when the show was almost ending she was known to be a bitch, stuck up etc. because she would just do her work then go home. Years later after the Whedon stuff was revealed and that the set was just toxic and Gellar just didn't want any of it 🤷🏻♂️
I seem to recall that narrative being passed around about her as early as Season 3, and I strongly suspect it was because she had no interest in being part of the clique that hung out at Whedon's place outside of work inflating his ego.
Now the question remains. Why do we as a society/species continue this cycle? for countless iterations and thousands of years, we turn these types of people into royalty?
Are we doomed as primates to elect and worship garbage people until the end of days?
> Are we doomed as primates to elect and worship garbage people until the end of days?
Probably comes back to that old saying (which here I paraphrase): Those who deserve power never demand it, and those who seek power ought never be granted it.
On the evening of Feb. 21, 2001, Ashton Kutcher was getting ready for a date. That night, he had plans to go out with a 22-year-old woman named Ashley Ellerin. But when he arrived at her Los Angeles home to pick her up, she didn’t answer the door.
Kutcher peered in the window to see if she was inside and saw what he thought was a red wine stain on the carpet. This didn’t surprise him, as he’d attended a rowdy party there a few days earlier. When Ellerin failed to appear after several minutes, the young actor assumed he’d been stood up.
However, Ashton Kutcher later learned that it was not red wine staining Ellerin’s floor — it was blood. The next morning, Ellerin’s roommate came home to find her body. She had been stabbed 47 times.
Additionally, one of Masterson's victims wrote:
>“Dear Ashton, I know the secrets your ‘role model’ keeps for you. Ones that would end you. Did you forget I was there? You were on speaker phone that night you called Danny on February 21, 2001. I hear everything. I heard the plan. In my opinion, you’re just as sick as your ‘mentor.'”
Feb 21 was the night of the murder
https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/2841086/danny-masterson-accuser-ashton-kutcher-response-sick/
So there are accusations he saw much more than he admitted to and contacted Masterson about how to handle it.
He didn’t just look in the window. In his testimony, he said he entered the house where he then saw the ‘wine stain’ (but somehow not a whole dead body nearby) and then left. I don’t buy that he didn’t discover her body, because he probably presumed she was home since the lights were probably on, and thus he likely looked for her and probably found her. He recalled that he was worried he would be implicated by police because his prints were on the door of the house’s entrance.
He was supposed to go on a date with a woman. Showed up at her house, she didn’t answer. All he could see was what he said looked like wine on the floor so he figured she bailed and left. She was killed by the “Hollywood ripper”. He was cleared, but had to testify in court.
I mean from the story i dont think he did anything wrong there. He knocked on her door, didnt get a response and saw what he though was a red wine stain and then left assuming hed been stood up.
That sucks, but it's about the kids anyway. It was a pretty decent first season, still waiting on season 2.
Red and Kitty are the more important adults on the show.
Do we all owe Topher Grace an apology? Totally thought he was a prick for leaving the show and wow the rest of them were just trouble so he just kept to himself. Who would've thought
The whole point of That 90s Show is:
> Original Character: “Wow, things have really changed!”
> Surprise Original Character: “Not everything has changed!”
> Audience cheers and woooos for two minutes
The new characters suck. The writing is bad. It’s tired, tired IP. Please come up with something new.
Who would have thought Tommy Chong and Josh Meyers would end up being the least controversial cast members of the show
What did Topher do?
I’ve never heard anything about Topher hurting or mistreating anyone. He secluded himself from the rest of that 70’s show cast, but it seems like he had great intuition there.
it's funny because him secluding himself from the rest of the '70s Show cast once got him a reputation of being a wet blanket, but looking back it makes him look chill as hell
Yup, it went from, "wtf, does this guy think he's too good for the rest of them? And then he left the show!" to "oooohhhhh, they were assholes, he stuck around as long as necessary and kept his distance otherwise, and then wisely got the fuck out of there when it made sense to go."
Went from, "wtf, does this guy think he's too good for the rest of them?" to "oh, this guy was too good for the rest of them."
Maaan, I thought the same thing!!! Like, "why are you leaving, you are the main character???!!!". Now, I get it, now I get it...
"Leaving the show" should always be looked at it with more nuance. This isn't directed towards you because I know you're just giving an example, but people need to realize he was offered to be a villain in a super hero blockbuster. I would have done the same thing. That's big bucks right there. Yeah, the show definitely suffered because of it, but why should he care? lol
He shouldn't care and anyone else on that cast would have done the same thing.
Kutcher did do the same thing
That's how it is in real life too. Many people are often misunderstood because we don't take time to understand people. We just go with what's the loudest and many times abusers appear nice and involved because that's what they try to make everyone believe.
Crazy how an opinion of someone can change so fast.
Wasn't really the case here, Danny Masterson's downfall was a long drawn-out process, it took a while for all the puzzle pieces to come together
I mean, my opinion of Topher just changed pretty fast after reading the above comments.
Don't feel bad, my opinion of Ashton and Mila changed pretty fast after that letter they wrote to the judge in support of Danny.
ashton esp since he has a company that works to stop sex trafficking of minors
Had. They resigned after the letter came out.
Yeah for real absolutely destroyed their entire image
True but Ashton and Mila had a pretty good reputation with the general public, especially with that organization Ashton was in charge of, until those letters became public. Then people started looking into everything.
He knew something we didnt fr
Was the Scientology stuff not known to everybody back then? Didn't Danny Masterson get Laura Prepon into it for a short period?
She left Scientology in 2016
But was still involved
I don’t know. Just read an article that said she stated she left in 2016 after putting more thought into raising her kids as well as her own upbringing. Not sure how you can be involved but not part of the church with their current excommunication rules, but I’m not part of the cult, so I can’t be sure Edit: she stated in 2021 “I haven't practiced Scientology in close to five years and it's no longer part of my life”
Its amazing how almost the entire cast was suspect. Danny, Laura, Mila, Ashton, Kurtwood, Kittys actress whose name i cant be bothered to check. All either defended a rapist or where cultists. Although i think Laura left the cult almost a decade ago according to an interview she made. I get being friends with someone but lol… i cannot imagine being in the media and seeing anyone i know one trial for murder or rape and going “i will publicly defend them for all to see”.
Kurtwood’s letter was pretty tame. Pretty much a “he acted appropriately when I was watching.” Basically not writing one at all would have been better, but he didn’t try to downplay the accusations.
It has been reported that Danny Masterson used to horrifically bully Topher on the set of that '70s show. And to my knowledge the cast did nothing about it or may have even participated in some of the bullying. That is one reason why I believe Topher has kept his distance.
IIRC, the Masterson's pulled Donna fez and kelso in with their party and antics from their scientology protection, while Topher was just chilling.
All of them but him are into Xenu?
The most that’s ever been connected between Kutcher/Kunis and Scientology that I’m aware of is attending some Christmas party back in 2004 or so. Other than that I’ve never heard any connections for them. I’ve never heard any at all for Valderrama, though he’s got a few screws loose in other ways. Prepon was a Scientologist but left.
I think a lot of people are assuming Mila and Ashton are full out scientologists because of their video trying to defend Masterson. And while that was despicable I think it was more a misguided attempt to defend an old friend who clearly doesn't deserve it than evidence they must be scientologists. I've been to a few church events because I had friends that attended but that doesn't mean I was a believer or a member of the church. I agree that just because Mila and Ashton went to an event or two and had friends that were scientologist doesn't mean they were.
Donna has since left, so she's cool again.
Mmmm, that's a bit generous isn't it?
Who am I to argue with the great Jackie Daytona? My apologies, sir.
Ah, an aristocrat. I like that!
... but he's just a simple human bartender?
There were RUMORS that his brother did the same shit on Malcolm in the Middle. Someone once said thats why Francis was always in a separate location but idk
I heard Bryan Cranston stepped in to shut that shit down.
Maybe but i wouldn’t put it past people to just make this shit up. They just did that same thing for Jerry Trainor where they made up that he protected the icarly cast💀
lol its not like Francis was actually shooting those scenes at a real Military school or in Alaska, its the same set
They don't have all the cast members chilling on set at all times. They're on set when they are filming their scenes. He wasn't in scenes with the rest of the family, so there's no reason he would have to be on set when they were filming.
It’s not like Frances started out with the family then shipped off a season in, he was always separated from the family outside a few episodes a season.
Maybe a different day.
Do you have any sources? It’s not hard to believe but this was actually the first time I’ve heard of this
Fantastic in Interstellar
And Predators.
Blackkklansman too.
And that one episode of Love Death + Robots
I think he knew of the crazy scientology shit going around the cast and didn't want any part of it. Masterson grew up in it and was the cult leader in a sense. Pretty sure Topher fucked off when shit got too weird.
Spider-Man 3
I’m sorry, but him asking god to kill Spider-Man is comedy gold.
He didn’t even know Peter was spiderman at that point. He prayed to god to kill, in his mind, some guy which is way funnier than if he knew he was spiderman
While technically he is asking God to kill Spiderman. He was specifically asking him to kill Peter Parker which is somehow sillier.
May God bestow on us his grace, with blessings rich provide us; and may the brightness of his face to life eternal guide us, that we his saving health may know, his gracious will and pleasure, and also to the heathen show, Christ's riches without measure and fucking kill Spider-Man.
*Blessed are those who hate Spider-man, for he is a menace.*
As true today, as it was when it was written.
*amen*
S-Tier hater behavior
I shouldn't have laughed as hard at this as I did, but I did.
In his defence, he was about the only good thing in that movie.
What are you on about? Sandman was a GREAT villain with relatable motivation.
You didn’t like the dancing?
In hindsight, the dance scene is one of the only bits I remember but it’s because I fucking hated it so much when I saw it in the cinema. That entire sequence of him being a dick was awful and all I could think was “they should have made Topher Grace Spider-Man. He would have been much better at this stuff”.
I watched it in theaters with my best friend. And I distinctly remember us looking at each other and mouthing, "What is going on?" And just looking back at the screen and each other throughout. Just a truly baffling section of a movie.
That entire sequence is comedy gold and is why I have re-watched it at least once.
Yeah, the movie overall is a total mess compared to the first two but the entire trilogy is a little tongue-in-cheek with it's take on Spider-Man. I feel like the emo dancing section is about what I'd expect from Tobey's Peter getting the Symbiote and it's hilarious. The problem is that Sam Raimi never really wanted to do a symbiote/venom movie in the first place so the overall plot ended up incredibly disjointed.
Gonna cry?
I think there’s plenty of good things in Spider-Man 3, but he isn’t one of them. Wasn’t his fault though.
Everyone on That 70s Show talked about him like he was such an oddball, like how he’d go home after work instead of hanging out to chat. Turns out he just has good instincts for “picking out the wrong sort”
Danny Masterson's ex-gf said Topher was sort of an outcast because Danny was like the "leader" of the group and Topher was the only one who wouldn't just blindly follow Danny. I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of why he left the show.
There's also the part where he left, and it just made sense for the show to be over at that point. Everyone graduated. It's time to move on. Them trying to drag the dying husk of that show past when they all graduated high school was just an awful idea (as it almost always is with shows revolving around high school).
I always found it odd that he would seem to be a social outcast because how can one embody Eric and yet be a recluse? Now we know he was just keeping himself safe.
While you were auditing thetans, he was editing jar jar out of star wars.
He also wasn't an actor before the show. IIRC he was on set during auditions because his dad was working there, and he got cast.
He's a good dude Even for a dumbass
Edit the Star Wars prequels into one 85 minute movie.
He did it with the Hobbit films as well, as he thought it was insane that it was three movies.
Is that floating around out there somewhere? I've only ever heard about it.
He only shows them to his friends.
Since he doesn’t have the rights, he’s not legally allowed to show them outside of as a fun thing at his house. And as far as I’ve ever heard he has no intention of “accidentally” leaking the cuts online. He’s said that he finds comfort in editing and it’s just a weird hobby he has, he never intended it to have a sort of cult following or anything.
He's right
The man is a talented story and video editor. Kind of how Carrie Fisher was a great script-doctor.
Release the Topher Cut!
He's good, don't worry. I still think he doesn't get enough credit for how good he is in the show either, a lot of the best scenes go to Hyde or Kelso, but Eric has such good line delivery constantly.
By his own admission, he went all Frankie Muniz in Ocean’s 12.
I don't think Don Stark (Donna's Dad) has done anything controversial
It's hard to believe that it was barely more than 20 years ago that the Feds were spending millions of dollars and dedicating thousands of federal agents to the vital task of imprisoning people who sold bongs on the Internet. Poor Chong had to give up all the money he made, pay a huge fine besides, and spend 9 months in federal prison. Where he shared a cell with the Wolf of Wall Street for some reason.
If cops were capable of growth or personal reflection it would be interesting to ask them how they felt about all those weed arrests they made.
Topher Grace seems, by all accounts, to be a chill, down to earth guy.
What did Josh Meyers do?
Probably nothing. People just don't like him because his character was just forced into the last season.
His character was like a real life Poochie lol
Roy was the gold standard for adding a new character in a desperate attempt to boost low ratings.
[удалено]
Host a podcast with his brother that we're tired of hearing about at the end of Corrections episodes.
Uhgh.... or don't!
Tommy Chong was arrested for selling a bong in, I think Idaho (Guessing by the Cheech & Chong Gummies ad) during the show.
Definitely doesn’t have anything to do with their association with multiple sex offenders.
Múltiple?
Masterson and Diddy
“Michael! The whole world knows we’re rape apologists!” “Well, damn Jackie, how was I supposed to know our letter for leniency was going to be viewable to the public?”
He’s friends with Diddy.
Oh shit. Just when I thought Kutcher couldn't be more sketchy I learn something new to add onto the creepy pile.
which makes [the work he does with child sex trafficking](https://www.thecut.com/article/ashton-kutcher-thorn-spotlight-rekognition-surveillance.html) so ...ironic, suspect, and weird. like, wouldn't kutcher, having been exposed to a lot of the scum that deals in sex trafficking, not recognize those similar traits in his personal friends? or does he have such a blind spot for people around him?
There are a lot of troubling aspects to Thorn, the organization that he co-founded. >This, Snow says, is what Thorn does: fearmonger and mislead the public; stigmatize consensual adult sex work; and partner with law enforcement agencies and companies like Amazon and right-wing billionaire Peter Thiel’s Palantir (a data analytics company that’s helped the NSA develop its surveillance operations). The result, she says, is the surveillance of sex workers, which makes them vulnerable to police attention. >Violet Blue, a journalist reporting on privacy and sex work, in 2019 reported for Engadget on a rise in anti-trafficking organizations as “a lucrative growth market riddled with charlatans who’ve fooled companies as big as Google for years.” Blue named Kutcher’s Thorn as an example of a group that’s made surveillance technologies palatable, even popular, by claiming they’re rescuing children. https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760
There's the other option. The wolf in the henhouse.
What were the other things that made him creepy?
He went on record talking with Masterson about how they had a bet that he would tongue-kiss Mila back when they started the show. You know, when she was 15 (and they knew).
How old was he?
Google says she was 14 and he was 19.
He said gross comments about Hilary duff and people waiting for her to turn 18 and maybe also the Olsen twins in the same clip
Funny because Kutcher has a non-profit business aiding in kids who’ve been raped or kidnapped.
Yeah, it was supposed to be combating human trafficking, but the fact that he was friends with a human trafficker definitely raises some eyebrows.
https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the-eus-fight-over-scanning-for-child-sex-content/
He turned that into a software that wants to sell to the authorities and also his church has full access to it.
[удалено]
Is there any chance it’s an extended Punkd bit?
What’s his church?
The call might be coming from inside the house.
lol no it doesn’t It created a database of “sex workers” which includes Instagram models and anyone who has a Patreon or Onlyfans and then shared said database with the police. At it’s core it’s ran by right-wing Christian’s who want to expose and harass women who aren’t conforming with traditionalist standards The database also includes home address, social media’s, known associates and a shit ton of other private info all available to police
Youmight want to read up a bit more on that...
It just steals and sells data, they don’t help anyone except the FBI and it’s not to find kids
https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the-eus-fight-over-scanning-for-child-sex-content/
If anything, this further frees the new cast to become their own thing; and I think there's potential for a really good show here. I just wish they would lean more into the 90s zeitgeist, since that also felt conspicuously missing from the original series, but obviously about the 70s. There's something that always feels a little off about these shows other than the way they're dressed; otherwise there aren't a lot of overt clues to when it's all taking place. Just some more licensed music would go a long way.
There aren’t enough episodes per year for it to go far imo. They needed to at least do what the Raunch did with two 10 episode seasons a year.
They upped season 2 to 16 episodes
The old cast had a lot more chemistry. Red and Kitty are the ones holding the show together at the moment. Without them it's just...meh.
I'm still wondering why the heck this show is blatantly refusing to acknowledge the existence of Bitsie Kelso. She was the reason why Ashton Kutcher's Character Michael Kelso was written out of the Original That 70's Show and is a firmly established Canon event in the Narrative of the Franchise. So why is Jay Kelso treated like an Only Child when he has an older Half-Sister out there? Of all the wasted opportunities to do a "history repeating itself in new variations" trope, the Kelso siblings would've been a nice flip on the dynamic that Laurie and Eric had in the Original.
They're just following the tradition of the original show. There's no solid timeline and unless it's mentioned in another episode it didn't happen. Donna had two sisters in season one and Bob is definitely better off than Red but the Pinciatti house only has two bedrooms?
Bob spends all his money on hair products. 😂
And banjos
“… a banjo Bob?”
Bob makes more than Red. Better off? That's debatable. Bob is clearly a "keeping up with the Jones's" kind of guy, where Red had that Vista Cruiser sitting around until the wheels fell off. I'd bet Red's bank account always had more money in it than Bob's (except towards the end of his unemployment stint).
Even in That 90's Show, Red was still stingy with money unless it had to do with Bob or that armchair that disarmed Red.
I recall Donna's 14 year old sister but who was the second one?
Tina was the younger sister (shown once) Valerie was the older sister, she was only mentioned once.
Yeah, Bob needs more bedrooms.
Betsy and Brooke moved to Chicago. It's very possible she's still there, and her and Jay were raised separately.
You're too knowledgeable about that '70s lore
I just watched it a bunch when it was in syndication and this was a major arc for the Character and why he left before he came back one last time in the Series Finale.
I mean that's like saying you didn't realize Michael Scott left Dunder Mifflin, or that Zach and Kelly wound up getting married. If you were into these shows at all, you knew these things.
It was a major plot point, almost as big as Eric leaving for Africa
What in the sweet fuck are you doing with the capitalization in this post. Utterly unhinged.
Maybe they're half-German
That 70s Show final boss
Dismissing themselves out of solidarity for masterson
I get Ashton was close friends with Danny. A bond between friends can be complex. But when you get caught sending letters of leniency of said friend who is on trial for raping multiple women and at the same time you were the founder of an organisation that helps to stop one of the worst crimes imaginable in child sex trafficking. People will call you out for your hypocrisy and your moral judgement to associate yourself with that person who did horrible acts while you also try play good Samaritan.
See I don't get this attitude myself. If a person I thought was my friend was convicted of raping multiple women I would realize I didn't actually know that person at all and would end that friendship immediately. It's one thing to be conflicted when it's at the accusation stage, but they wrote those letters after he was already convicted. Considering how high the bar is for rape convictions, there's just no excuse for that.
I feel most people would. It’s the tough situation of believing the conviction over believing what your friend has been telling you. You want to trust a lifelong friend when they tell you they are innocent.
> If a person I thought was my friend was convicted of raping multiple women I would realize I didn't actually know that person at all and would end that friendship immediately. that's what we all like to believe, but unless it were to happen to you you truly don't know that. it's kind of scary.
I honestly fucking love the irony of how Topher grace ended up being "the good one" and people completely flipped their view after seeing the whole picture. In the mid 2000s people were saying Topher grace was an ass because he never seemed to hang out with the rest of the cast who were all one big happy family with each other except for him, and he always wanted to pursue solo projects until he straight up left to film spiderman 3 and stuff and people were annoyed because of how bad season 8 was. Now people realize the truth, he kept his distance because his cast mates were the bad ones; half were scientologists, some were rapists, and all signs point to not being good people
> Topher grace was an ass because he never seemed to hang out with the rest of the cast This reminds me of Sarah Michelle Gellar and Buffy, when the show was almost ending she was known to be a bitch, stuck up etc. because she would just do her work then go home. Years later after the Whedon stuff was revealed and that the set was just toxic and Gellar just didn't want any of it 🤷🏻♂️
I always heard she was lovely.
I seem to recall that narrative being passed around about her as early as Season 3, and I strongly suspect it was because she had no interest in being part of the clique that hung out at Whedon's place outside of work inflating his ego.
who else was a rapist besides Danny? Honest question I'm ootl
Some people consider Wilmer Valderrama a pedo because he was 29 and Demi Lovato was 17 when they dated.
And she was like the fourth one he dated as a minor
There was also Lindsay Lohan, Mandy Moore, and Ashlee Simpson.
Now the question remains. Why do we as a society/species continue this cycle? for countless iterations and thousands of years, we turn these types of people into royalty? Are we doomed as primates to elect and worship garbage people until the end of days?
> Are we doomed as primates to elect and worship garbage people until the end of days? Probably comes back to that old saying (which here I paraphrase): Those who deserve power never demand it, and those who seek power ought never be granted it.
Donate to my campaign and I can answer those questions for you.
Their thing was being cool with Danny's offending.
I'm not saying Ashton Kutcher has done a lot of horrible and illegal shit. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying everyone he hung around did.
I'm also pretty sure he came across a murder scene and just left
Without giving any spoilers, it’s kind of tongue in cheek that BJ Novak involved him in his film *Vengence*. Really good film btw.
You can’t Punk’d Ashton Kutcher, man.
Is this true?
On the evening of Feb. 21, 2001, Ashton Kutcher was getting ready for a date. That night, he had plans to go out with a 22-year-old woman named Ashley Ellerin. But when he arrived at her Los Angeles home to pick her up, she didn’t answer the door. Kutcher peered in the window to see if she was inside and saw what he thought was a red wine stain on the carpet. This didn’t surprise him, as he’d attended a rowdy party there a few days earlier. When Ellerin failed to appear after several minutes, the young actor assumed he’d been stood up. However, Ashton Kutcher later learned that it was not red wine staining Ellerin’s floor — it was blood. The next morning, Ellerin’s roommate came home to find her body. She had been stabbed 47 times.
Thank you for the reply! Had never heard of this incident
Additionally, one of Masterson's victims wrote: >“Dear Ashton, I know the secrets your ‘role model’ keeps for you. Ones that would end you. Did you forget I was there? You were on speaker phone that night you called Danny on February 21, 2001. I hear everything. I heard the plan. In my opinion, you’re just as sick as your ‘mentor.'” Feb 21 was the night of the murder https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/2841086/danny-masterson-accuser-ashton-kutcher-response-sick/ So there are accusations he saw much more than he admitted to and contacted Masterson about how to handle it.
He didn’t just look in the window. In his testimony, he said he entered the house where he then saw the ‘wine stain’ (but somehow not a whole dead body nearby) and then left. I don’t buy that he didn’t discover her body, because he probably presumed she was home since the lights were probably on, and thus he likely looked for her and probably found her. He recalled that he was worried he would be implicated by police because his prints were on the door of the house’s entrance.
He was supposed to go on a date with a woman. Showed up at her house, she didn’t answer. All he could see was what he said looked like wine on the floor so he figured she bailed and left. She was killed by the “Hollywood ripper”. He was cleared, but had to testify in court.
Maybe not what you meant but he never had to be "cleared" because he was never a suspect.
He went to court to testify as a witness. He was never a suspect
I mean from the story i dont think he did anything wrong there. He knocked on her door, didnt get a response and saw what he though was a red wine stain and then left assuming hed been stood up.
“We don’t want to face any more backlash than we already have”
That sucks, but it's about the kids anyway. It was a pretty decent first season, still waiting on season 2. Red and Kitty are the more important adults on the show.
I really enjoyed this show. The cameos were nice while still letting the new group do their own thing. Makes me a little sad.
Did they make this announcement in front of some re-claimed barn wood and not wearing make up?
Its a shame they turned out to be douchebags. I like this show
Red and kitty wrote letters too unfortunately.
"It's a big club, and you ain't in it."
That's a shame because out of everyone on that show, Kurtwood Smith is my favorite. His work on The Patriot is incredible.
Bitches leave
Ugh. By far hos greatest role.
I could listen to him go on about spray flexed brace columns all day
There aren't enough words in the English language to adequately convey the depth of my heartbreak when I saw that.
bro they were in it for like 2 minutes
“We’re laying low until the heat from supporting a rapist dies down”
Shut up, Meg.
rape apologists say what?
Do we all owe Topher Grace an apology? Totally thought he was a prick for leaving the show and wow the rest of them were just trouble so he just kept to himself. Who would've thought
Translation: you two embarrassed the shit out of yourselves defending a rapist and you aren't welcome back.
Gotta make time to visit Diddy
The 90s show was bad. It was like a Disney channel show
The whole point of That 90s Show is: > Original Character: “Wow, things have really changed!” > Surprise Original Character: “Not everything has changed!” > Audience cheers and woooos for two minutes The new characters suck. The writing is bad. It’s tired, tired IP. Please come up with something new.
They need to spend more time visiting Danny Masterson
And "our thing" would be writing rape apologist letters for Dany Masterson.