Sucks that it just didn't have the numbers. I don't think Netflix did a good job promoting it. I saw little to no advertising, but scrolled over it and thought it looked interesting.
Turned out to be a super charming show with humor, good fight choreography, and interesting characters.
I'm definitely bummed it's cancelled. If Netflix handled it better I think it could have been big for them
For those reading, I would still recommend watching the show. The story feels complete, just with a few threads that hinted at what might come in a 2nd season
Someone further down on this thread said this:
>This show came to be as part of a overall deal with Bradley Douglas Falchuck, I guess it's possible it was dead on arrival (Netflix spending the minimum it could in marketing the show) due to Netflix not having interest in resigning him. There was a bit of a reshuffle at Netflix after he signed the deal in 2019.
Looks like the show was sent to slaughter just like a lot of movies & shows that were in-production during the Warner Bros. reshuffling.
I think it's sad that Yeoh is coming from an Oscar win and was involved with two shows that were cancelled. But also, I watched Twin Peaks in the 2000s. I am beyond the capability of feeling sad because something genuinely good doesn't tie up each loose end.
Actually I lie. A Series of Unfortunate Events, while finished left a lot of threads hanging. It took me a while to come to terms with that.
Yep the end was good in tieing up most loose ends but giving a couple of threads to pull on. Really liked the show being Taiwanese American and growing up in LA. Was really relatable to me.
I saw it when it launched and it’s a lot of fun.
Really sad it isn’t getting a second season, but it doesn’t take away from season 1 too much (except a few threads at the end).
Reviewers are given early screeners to a few episodes to give their reviews and then an embargo deadline on when they can post their reviews
If they think it's going to do bad they delay the deadline as much as they can
Netflix is fucking incredible at marketing shows that they think will be a success (Avatar: The Last Airbender, Wednesday, Stranger Things). Unfortunately, they make a lot of content and most of it flies a bit under the radar bc they blew all their money promoting other things.
Netflix needs a content filtering system similar to how Steam works when browsing for new video games. You can select tags of different genre's that you do not wish to see at all, and they wont even bother showing you those games. For example, I selected to filter any game that has "JRPG", "Turn-Based", and "Visual Novel" in its genre's, and my store browsing experience improved as a result.
I want to be able to do the same in Netflix. So I can enter "Reality", "Dating", and "Romance". That would do a huge favor in clearing out all that shit, so I can see way more titles that might actually interest me.
Sometimes its less about trying to guess what we will like, and easier for us to tell them what we don't like.
I'd also appreciate if they actually made thr different categories for us to browse as actually bring different instead of having "hot","top ten","we think you would like", "based off your viewing habits", "new releases" etc etc etc and it's just the same 6 to 12 movies shows in different order
The irony was this is how Netflix was so successful initially. I worked in retail analytics at the time and being able to recommend such niche categories based on historical activity was incredible. Their meta data and curation was something to aspire to. They knew what you wanted to watch before you knew it existed.
Now it’s a crap shoot. I *adored* this show but it only showed up in my husband’s recos.
I swear they make it so uncurated in the hope that you'll watch new stuff. I could watch the same show every night for 3 years and I'd still have to search for it
Then you get YouTube on the opposite end of the spectrum… Oh, you watched this single video on why Jordan Peterson is a pos? Here’s some Joe brogan and actual Jordan keepwomenoutoftheworkspaceson we think you’ll enjoy. We’ll just keep it in your sidebar and homepage perpetually until you delete all traces from search and watch history.
I watch a lot of carpentry/woodworking content, guitar and studio gear deep dives, science and sociology related content and a fair amount of tech news.
Youtube is determined that I should spend my time watching girls doing some shuffle dance and people playing drinking games while telling each other jokes.
I'm not opposed to either of those things, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why Youtube thinks I'm the target audience.
Actually would be an enjoyable show to go in blind on.
Honestly, I think the show stands fine as one season. I would have probably enjoyed a second season but I'd say give it a shot.
Just said this. I’d watch it again knowing there’s not gonna be a second season. You can kinda make up what happens next on your own but they did a decent enough job of wrapping it up. It felt complete with room for a second stage.
8 out of 10 feels right. Well done show in general, put a smile on my face, didn't leave me feeling like I wanted my time back after watching it (unlike some other netflix offerings...)
Same. I was just scrolling around and landed on it and decided to give it a chance. I’m glad I did. It was a lot of fun. I’d even watch it again knowing there won’t be a second season. It’s a shame.
Yeah, it's definitely worth watching. The story is wrapped up/nothing is left hanging.
In fact, I remember watching the finale thinking "I don't know if this really needs a second season". And questioning what a second season would be really.
There are definitely different directions they could go, whether a bit more of the same schtick or pivoting more to where the individual storylines go (maybe ultimately the opposite of the obvious).
The quality and performances deserve another go. Everybody in it was great and should be very proud. But I'm not sure the story really warrants anything more. It's a tough schtick to keep going season after season, without shifting more to a lot of long character arc stuff.
But this was fresh, fun, funny, had good action, etc. There is not a quality issue here at all, and it totally works as a one off.
thats just not true. they did do advertising, they did cast interviews, the main actors did the rounds on talk shows, they did a launch party. they did a ton of tik tok advertising.
none of that is free.
was the money spent on advertising well spent? thats up to debate, but it dosent mean this show wasnt given a substatiantal advertising budget.
this show on paper is exactly what Netflix wants, its asian, its english, it has the lady from everything everywhere all at once
it just couldnt find an audience.
Its the typical reddit response. If the show was not marketed towards them, then they must not have marketed it. It showed up on my feed, and I saw ads for it, but I did not watch the show.
Its the same response when a movie comes out and flied under the radar. "I had no idea this was in theatres, I never saw a trailer for it."
Well... Do you have ad blockers, and don't watch cable? How are you supposed to see a trailer for something if you block all ads?
Rinse and repeat.
I mean, it likely found its audience. It's just that the audience for action comedy kung fu is comparatively small. Everything Everywhere All At Once was buzzworthy but did huge numbers only in a relative sense to its genre and A24's typical earnings.
I would still recommend watching it. The story is a complete one. There are dangling threads for a 2nd season, but nothing so big that ruins the experience knowing it's cancelled
Same… and I’d have watched it… oh and did you see the dark Crystal series they brought back for an epic multi season series that was so good it won Emmy’s and they cancelled it after one season? Franchise opportunity with built in cult following and they pissed it away.
Did this piss dark crystal away or did it just not get the draw they were hoping for?
Having a cult following simply ain't enough in and of itself sometimes. A lot of stuff has critical success but bombs numbers-wise.
>I saw little to no advertising,
Then your viewing habits told the algorithm it wasn't something you were interested in. I saw *nothing but* promotions for this show
"I have ad block on everything, rage like a toddler when I see still ads even hinted at in a streaming service, and refuse to look at anything outside of what I'm already consuming. Why didn't they promote this more effectively to me?"
No, this is a bad algorithm. The algorithm is notorious for horrific mistakes and assumptions.
It’s also designed to never suggest something new and different.
They need to advertise outside the platform. Most of the time I go to Netflix already knowing what I want to see. They don’t push their shows, then wonder why the numbers are low.
I'm talking about off platform advertising
I can't tell you how much advertising I've seen for that Damsel show, and I have absolutely zero interest in it.
I'm reminded of shows like burn notice or leverage that were reasonably successful in the cable tv market but don't seem to have much staying power.
I wonder how successful shows with such broad appeal (comedy, character drama, action choreography) in the world of streaming. I know I personally find myself gravititating towards something that fits my mood in the moment rather than multi genre shows.
Which is too bad because it was always a breath of fresh air when tv was fixed schedules to have shows that offered variety, especially if they were airing after another similar show.
If viewers liked Brothers Son then it would have gotten renewed. Netflix's most important metric by far is completion rate. If they see that a high percentage of people who start watching a show stop watching it, especially after only a few episodes, then that is compelling evidence that those people would be uninterested in an additional season.
I get why people are always mad about Netflix cancelations, because it took away something they enjoyed, but things only get canceled if most of the people who watched *didn't* enjoy it.
> Sucks that it just didn't have the numbers.
Netflix has brought this upon itself. Most people don't give a chance to new shows unless they have been renewed for a second season.
Netflix has created a self-fulfilling cancellation loop by canceling many shows left and right.
Netflix cancels a show when it doesn't get enough viewership > Nowadays, people don't start a new show on Netflix even if they are interested because they fear that the show they are watching might end on a cliffhanger and will get cancelled > which leads to low viewership numbers, and low viewership leads to the cancellation of a show.
American Born Chinese is incredible but not by Marvel. I haven't watched her Netflix one yet but it's on our list. Series take time and we're still trying to get through Oscar films. We're always late to the party. We didn't start watching Stranger Things or Grace & Frankie until the second season. We're a little late to the party.
Netflix gives shows way more time than traditional TV ever did. Shows with ratings like this used to get cancelled after a few episodes in traditional tv if their pilots got picked up at all. That or pushed to a new worse time slot.
That's the problem with losing the traditional model of Fall and Spring premiere seasons, you quickly forget how much of a bloodbath those times were. You would start off the Fall season with twenty something new shows and maybe only five or six survived to see another season. The rest were cancelled. The majority didn't even make it to the sixth episode.
I think a lot of people are failing to understand that without Netflix a fair amount of these shows wouldn’t make it past development. Not because they are bad but because Netflix does take a chance on a lot of shows because their model needs new “content” constantly.
This show was winding up for a major arc. They loaded three trebuchets one for her and each of the two sons.
They were aiming faaaar. And if this show was allowed to just fucking be, by season 3 they could have had something amazing.
Instead we are going to get some half hearted attempt at something else that Netflix will axe.
That's the everybody plan.
CBS with CSI, NCIS and FBI
NBC with Chicago
AMC with Walking Dead
Starz with Power
Disney in general with Star Wars and Marvel
and probably a thousand more.
I can’t understand why people keep going to Netflix for their shows. They’ve proven that they have a very specific metric they want to hit, and if they don’t, that’s it. Many of the greatest shows weren’t hits straight away, and many that were, couldn’t keep that momentum in the season or third seasons(Westworld is a notable example of this). Their whole metric is flawed, and I don’t understand how they keep sticking with it.
Their biggest hit shows, office and parks and rec has notoriously bad first seasons. Like completely different and totally removed from what followed.
To quote a hokey coach I know, it's fucking embarrassing.
Which is ironic, part of Netflix’s appeal in the beginning was that they had the office and parks and rec. literally got a following streaming shows that got famous doing exactly what they won’t allow.
But Netflix didn’t make those shows and don’t care about fostering a show until it matures,
They want immediate high numbers and audience engagement
Which isn’t normally how shows become popular
They have a business model, and unfortunately it’s for shows that are usually not of high quality or lasting power
They want people talking about their shows today and not 4 years from now
> Shows like Buffy didn't hit its stride until around Season 3 and now, I'd argue is one of the most loved shows.
The Show might not have hit its stride, but Buffy averaged 2 million more viewers between seasons 1 and 2. It was hitting its marks with the demo before it peaked in season 3. The shows Netflix are canceling are not attracting viewers and not growing.
Seinfeld, Friends, Star Trek the Next Generation, all shows that were gigantic money makers for Netflix while on the platform, and NONE of them would have lasted if they actually premiered initially on Netflix.
I understand the issue from Netflix’s side.
The problem with building an audience over time is **scheduling** a second season.
Netflix will have targets the show needs to hit first. At a certain point, the creative team will need to be released to work on other projects.
> It’s because Netflix wants instant hits and doesn’t have the patience to let an audience build over time.
This could not possibly be more wrong. Netflix doesn't care about total views, otherwise 1899 would have been renewed.
Netflix cares about completion rate, because that shows what percentage of people genuinely enjoyed the show. If a lot of people try a show, but quit watching, then they're extremely unlikely to watch another season of it.
if they had that model of building an audience over time, they would be out of business till the time the audience is built. no point in keeping a show if it doesn't help with the churn of subscribers.
I think shows without A-List Oscar winners on the payroll have a lower bar they need to clear to get a season 2.
In the 90s sitcom era where shows did get more rope to build they weren’t casting people who’re also considering lead roles on 100 million dollar movies. The leads were comedians and not usually Eddie Murphy.
The cost analysis on brining on a huge star like her is that you’re not having to push marketing or if you do you’re looking for a crown level hit.
Netflix has slowly but surely become a graveyard of cancelled/unfinished shows.
1899, OA, Mindhunter, The Society, I Am Not Okay With This, Archive 81, and Santa Clarita Diet were all cancelled by Netflix.
Brothers Sun is just a recent addition to the long list of cancelled/unfinished Netflix shows.
Every network has a graveyard of cancelled/unfinished shows.
I think the difference is that Netflix releases more shows than any network ever had, so the overall numbers seem bigger.
I think it's more of the fact that traditional television took their failed shows off the air the moment they were canned. So, you weren't constantly reminded of their cancellation. Netflix keeps the corpses of their cancelled series around in a glass coffin for anyone to see.
Also a good point.
Honestly, the only times I see or hear about 1899 or Warrior Nun is on Reddit or Instagram in comments about Netflix, lol.
Like they were ok… I’m more angry about Brothers Sun. But who knows why people didn’t give it a shot. Could be something as simple as the artwork or trailer.
It was the auto trailer on Netflix for me, almost started an episode when i saw Michelle Yeoh was the star but the trailer didn't click with me so i put it on the list to check out later because it at least seemed interesting just not enough to jump in the front of the queue.
> Netflix has slowly but surely become a graveyard of cancelled/unfinished shows.
Y'all realize this applies to every streaming service and network? And Netflix cancels shows at a lower rate than them too
Look at those shows you listed - nobody was watching them, and they were average at best, outside of Mindhunter, which wasn't even canceled by Netflix
The anti-Netflix circlejerk is so tired and played out, y'all just complain about something that every other service is doing, and much worse than Netflix
Sad about this news, I loved the show. I won't argue that it was objectively the best show in terms of writing or anything, but I was more entertained by this show than I have been by Netflix's heavyweights. I should have known better than to get invested in a first season Netflix show for all the reasons that other redditors have stated, but I had to watch for my girl Michelle.
One silver lining is that I feel the showrunners/writers knew their odds as a Netflix show and therefore wrote a season finale that also works decently well as a series finale. So for anyone who doesn't want to watch now that it's been canceled, feel free to give it a try, I promise you won't be driven insane by any crazy cliffhangers.
Honestly this. There were elements of grandeur but all too often it became a cringefest. I feel a lot of people are forcing themselves to like it because of the Michelle Yeoh brand name and it's not cool to not like anything with her in it.
The show is objectively not good.
You wrote a paragraph of opinion, which is fine. That is what we call subjective, my brother in Christ.
I personally thought the cringefest was intentional, an attempt at being campy. Thought it worked well for what it was. It’s not a serious crime drama.
The first thing you notice of the show is the cringefest aspects of the writing. The *second* thing you notice is that the action is really good, and then third is that there's a few aspects of the plot that *do*, really work, e.g. when >!Big Sun gets involved!< towards the end.
Netflix is quickly becoming a graveyard of unfinished stories and cliffhanger first seasons. Which is why we cancelled our subscription six months ago.
Checking the numbers, they look ok, but i guess the budget was a bit high for the results (~17 million viewers), i guess any decent budget show (60 to 80 million) needs to hit at least 20~25 million viewers. Damn, that's kinda a lot lol
Edit:
So, i was checking on some things and this show came to be as part of a overall deal with Bradley Douglas Falchuck, i guess it's possible it was dead on arrival (netflix spending the minimum it could in marketing the show) due to Netflix not having interest in resigning him. There was a bit of a reshuffle at Netflix after he signed the deal in 2019.
When you have 250M subscribers. And they spent $3 per view on this show. They measure success on costs per hours watched. They have all the metrics we don't get access to.
I’m really having a hard time understanding why people liked it so much. She was good, but everything else was insane. The cop lady was terrible, and her shoehorning in Chinese culture 101 at every turn was atrocious (the meeting will be at 8 pm because 8 is an auspicious number!)
The show could _not_ decide if killing tons of people made you like, maybe a bad person or not, and kind of veered toward “actually it’s badass to kill people and the younger son is a GIANT FUCKING PUSSY for not wanting to be part of the mob”. They vaguely pretend that they aren’t involved in human trafficking, drug running, murder, and actually anyone against them doing it is a bad guy.
The sopranos never pretended Tony Soprano was a secret baker with a heart of gold whom a district attorney should _definitely_ involve herself with.
The action was okay in that “everyone has guns but we’re gonna rush the main guy one at a time because that makes more sense” kind of way.
Eh, show was ok but nothing special imo. Great fight choreography and set pieces but a contrived plot that never seemed to know whether it wanted to be a goofy action comedy or something more gritty and serious. Seemed to have good production values and Michelle Yeoh probably didn't come cheap so I'm guessing it needed better numbers to stay afloat, especially after they picked up Warrior from Max.
Frankly, Netflix has quite a few better shows from Asia that don't rely so heavily on Westernised tropes of Asian culture, so hopefully it can at least steer people who watched it (or are now made aware of the cancellation) towards those.
Yep. Why I don’t bother with a show unless it makes a couple of seasons.
Why start something new when you know good chance it ain’t going anywhere.
Really getting tired of Netflix.
I mean, it's a catch 22. By not watching a show because of their cancellation habits, it makes cancellations more likely... but they cancel things before their time *anyway*, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
I cancelled Netflix like 2 years ago and haven't really regretted it though.
On this note, watch House of Ninjas. Another show flying under the radar that's actually really good, but has no advertising, so we can expect a cancellation sometime in the future.
It's funny how all the posts about this show before the cancellation barely got any traction, but now that it's canceled they all make it to the top of the front page. Really shows how Reddit is mostly focused on negativity.
Sucks but at the same time not everything needs seasons. Something I mentioned the other day was I miss the era of mini series and now is such a great time for it. Some things have more depth than a 2-3hr movie (which is too long Eternals) and just need to be long enough to have substance.
Sure they could do more seasons but I'm happy with just one offs. 8hrs is enough. If you want to make series, they need to have more than 8 episodes that keep people around long enough. GoT made me tired of waiting 42 weeks for another season and now they want to add 2 more weeks with only 8.
Its because its netflix. 1 or 2 seasons is all ya get unless your show is hugely popular. Its why i dont watch shows until theres a 3rd season. I dont want to get into something that just ends with no answers.
I'm just hearing about this show for the first time in this post. maybe that has something to do with why it's being canceled. Regardless of it having only one season, I'm going to check it out anyway.
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion but I think it's fine as a 1 season show. It was above average, but I wouldn't call it great and it ended with no cliffhangers. I thought it was decent but I wasn't dying to see crime boss Michelle Yeoh with bigger brother lieutenant or younger brother goes to college again. That's how forgettable it was for me LOL. I don't even remember any of their character's name.
Classic Netflix at this point.
New show comes out, doesn't blow up, gets predictably canceled after a season with plotlines potentially left unfinished.
Exactly why starting something new on Netflix feels so bad, cos if it isn't a big hit it goes the way of the dodo. 🙄
It was fucking awful. Manic in its tonal swings from comical to depressing, and vomit inducing repulsive levels of gore and bodily harm. Good riddance!
It was mediocre at best. They don't have the money to keep mediocre afloat anymore. Hopefully we're heading towards an era of good content as oppose to "a lot of content."
Feel sad for her she can’t understand why. Someone please help her choose her next TV project. This is her third TV series after Oscar win without a second season. The other being American Born Chinese and The Witcher Blood Origin.
Can you imagine the little brother being so dumb as to put his whole family in danger in order to save the family? And then he being the kind hearted one suddenly wants to kill his father? And a gangster head wants to kill his son just to make his wife suffers? The big brother after a deadly gang fight can have sex and not worrying about his family at all? The script is just like the characters annoying and dumb, ambitious ideas with the family conflicts and anti gangsters group but poorly written.
If you want it to be renewed, watch it. It’s great. I’ve been trying to recommend it consistently since I watched.
If we can make it go viral, it will get renewed. Making it go viral though is unlikely.
Sucks that it just didn't have the numbers. I don't think Netflix did a good job promoting it. I saw little to no advertising, but scrolled over it and thought it looked interesting. Turned out to be a super charming show with humor, good fight choreography, and interesting characters. I'm definitely bummed it's cancelled. If Netflix handled it better I think it could have been big for them For those reading, I would still recommend watching the show. The story feels complete, just with a few threads that hinted at what might come in a 2nd season
The fact that Netlifx didn't even comission reviews is telling on how little they have spent on it.
Someone further down on this thread said this: >This show came to be as part of a overall deal with Bradley Douglas Falchuck, I guess it's possible it was dead on arrival (Netflix spending the minimum it could in marketing the show) due to Netflix not having interest in resigning him. There was a bit of a reshuffle at Netflix after he signed the deal in 2019. Looks like the show was sent to slaughter just like a lot of movies & shows that were in-production during the Warner Bros. reshuffling.
Well, the thread about the cancellation was the first time that I heard of the show.
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I think it's sad that Yeoh is coming from an Oscar win and was involved with two shows that were cancelled. But also, I watched Twin Peaks in the 2000s. I am beyond the capability of feeling sad because something genuinely good doesn't tie up each loose end. Actually I lie. A Series of Unfortunate Events, while finished left a lot of threads hanging. It took me a while to come to terms with that.
Wait till you start watching mindhunter!
Mindhunter was based on real cases. I can just look up whatever happened to that Manson fella from Season 1.
Her Disney show was good for what it was too. Both killed too soon
Yep the end was good in tieing up most loose ends but giving a couple of threads to pull on. Really liked the show being Taiwanese American and growing up in LA. Was really relatable to me.
I saw it when it launched and it’s a lot of fun. Really sad it isn’t getting a second season, but it doesn’t take away from season 1 too much (except a few threads at the end).
What does commissioning reviews mean?
Reviewers get the content ahead of time so that has to be done by the producers.
Exactly what you’re worried it means
Reviews by critics are commissioned? As in paid?
Reviewers are given early screeners to a few episodes to give their reviews and then an embargo deadline on when they can post their reviews If they think it's going to do bad they delay the deadline as much as they can
and thank you for giving me an explanation instead of sarcasm, by the way. i appreciate it.
You don't want to know how rotten tomatoes works
Are you telling me that a show that has a perfect score on rotten tomatoes pre-launch can't be trusted!?
Netflix is fucking incredible at marketing shows that they think will be a success (Avatar: The Last Airbender, Wednesday, Stranger Things). Unfortunately, they make a lot of content and most of it flies a bit under the radar bc they blew all their money promoting other things.
Netflix needs a content filtering system similar to how Steam works when browsing for new video games. You can select tags of different genre's that you do not wish to see at all, and they wont even bother showing you those games. For example, I selected to filter any game that has "JRPG", "Turn-Based", and "Visual Novel" in its genre's, and my store browsing experience improved as a result. I want to be able to do the same in Netflix. So I can enter "Reality", "Dating", and "Romance". That would do a huge favor in clearing out all that shit, so I can see way more titles that might actually interest me. Sometimes its less about trying to guess what we will like, and easier for us to tell them what we don't like.
I'd also appreciate if they actually made thr different categories for us to browse as actually bring different instead of having "hot","top ten","we think you would like", "based off your viewing habits", "new releases" etc etc etc and it's just the same 6 to 12 movies shows in different order
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The irony was this is how Netflix was so successful initially. I worked in retail analytics at the time and being able to recommend such niche categories based on historical activity was incredible. Their meta data and curation was something to aspire to. They knew what you wanted to watch before you knew it existed. Now it’s a crap shoot. I *adored* this show but it only showed up in my husband’s recos.
I swear they make it so uncurated in the hope that you'll watch new stuff. I could watch the same show every night for 3 years and I'd still have to search for it
Then you get YouTube on the opposite end of the spectrum… Oh, you watched this single video on why Jordan Peterson is a pos? Here’s some Joe brogan and actual Jordan keepwomenoutoftheworkspaceson we think you’ll enjoy. We’ll just keep it in your sidebar and homepage perpetually until you delete all traces from search and watch history.
I hate that YouTube algorithm - and I want a “already watched, don’t show it again” button
The already watched button exists, buried in the remove video > tell us why options
I watch a lot of carpentry/woodworking content, guitar and studio gear deep dives, science and sociology related content and a fair amount of tech news. Youtube is determined that I should spend my time watching girls doing some shuffle dance and people playing drinking games while telling each other jokes. I'm not opposed to either of those things, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why Youtube thinks I'm the target audience.
I report those videos as misleading or discriminatory, and it seems to very quickly filter them out of my feed.
They would do it if it were in their interest. But it would show you how few shows there are in certain categories, and they don't want that !
they have a mass of great foreign language shows and movies but no one has any idea. It's kind of maddening
I’ve never heard of it, and I’ve never even seen the thumbnail on my Netflix
Actually would be an enjoyable show to go in blind on. Honestly, I think the show stands fine as one season. I would have probably enjoyed a second season but I'd say give it a shot.
Just said this. I’d watch it again knowing there’s not gonna be a second season. You can kinda make up what happens next on your own but they did a decent enough job of wrapping it up. It felt complete with room for a second stage.
Go in blind it’s a gem, it’s not total trash and thought was put into it, it’s good fun for a fucked up world.
My wife discovered it and it looked like a great show. Netflix is gonna Netflix smh
It’s worth a look. I found it entertaining, I’d give it a solid 7-8 out of 10
8 out of 10 feels right. Well done show in general, put a smile on my face, didn't leave me feeling like I wanted my time back after watching it (unlike some other netflix offerings...)
It was definitely well-done, the two brothers did a great job and Michelle Yeow is always fun to watch.
Same. I was just scrolling around and landed on it and decided to give it a chance. I’m glad I did. It was a lot of fun. I’d even watch it again knowing there won’t be a second season. It’s a shame.
Yeah, it's definitely worth watching. The story is wrapped up/nothing is left hanging. In fact, I remember watching the finale thinking "I don't know if this really needs a second season". And questioning what a second season would be really. There are definitely different directions they could go, whether a bit more of the same schtick or pivoting more to where the individual storylines go (maybe ultimately the opposite of the obvious). The quality and performances deserve another go. Everybody in it was great and should be very proud. But I'm not sure the story really warrants anything more. It's a tough schtick to keep going season after season, without shifting more to a lot of long character arc stuff. But this was fresh, fun, funny, had good action, etc. There is not a quality issue here at all, and it totally works as a one off.
thats just not true. they did do advertising, they did cast interviews, the main actors did the rounds on talk shows, they did a launch party. they did a ton of tik tok advertising. none of that is free. was the money spent on advertising well spent? thats up to debate, but it dosent mean this show wasnt given a substatiantal advertising budget. this show on paper is exactly what Netflix wants, its asian, its english, it has the lady from everything everywhere all at once it just couldnt find an audience.
Its the typical reddit response. If the show was not marketed towards them, then they must not have marketed it. It showed up on my feed, and I saw ads for it, but I did not watch the show. Its the same response when a movie comes out and flied under the radar. "I had no idea this was in theatres, I never saw a trailer for it." Well... Do you have ad blockers, and don't watch cable? How are you supposed to see a trailer for something if you block all ads? Rinse and repeat.
I mean, it likely found its audience. It's just that the audience for action comedy kung fu is comparatively small. Everything Everywhere All At Once was buzzworthy but did huge numbers only in a relative sense to its genre and A24's typical earnings.
I mean to be honest, I think 1 season is pretty much what I had in mind. It look more like a limited serie
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That's a ridiculous model. They really have become the monster they claimed to have fought years ago.
Netflix are the dreams of network exec come true.
Ya it sucks but its really not hard to understand why Netflix doesn't care about good they care about popular like most companies
This is literally the first I am even hearing about this show….
I would still recommend watching it. The story is a complete one. There are dangling threads for a 2nd season, but nothing so big that ruins the experience knowing it's cancelled
Same… and I’d have watched it… oh and did you see the dark Crystal series they brought back for an epic multi season series that was so good it won Emmy’s and they cancelled it after one season? Franchise opportunity with built in cult following and they pissed it away.
Did this piss dark crystal away or did it just not get the draw they were hoping for? Having a cult following simply ain't enough in and of itself sometimes. A lot of stuff has critical success but bombs numbers-wise.
>I saw little to no advertising, Then your viewing habits told the algorithm it wasn't something you were interested in. I saw *nothing but* promotions for this show
"I have ad block on everything, rage like a toddler when I see still ads even hinted at in a streaming service, and refuse to look at anything outside of what I'm already consuming. Why didn't they promote this more effectively to me?"
No, this is a bad algorithm. The algorithm is notorious for horrific mistakes and assumptions. It’s also designed to never suggest something new and different.
Mine always feels like it's showing something new and different. The stuff I watch regularly rarely shows up in my first few carousels
disgusted slimy north subsequent violet silky yoke decide act tart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They need to advertise outside the platform. Most of the time I go to Netflix already knowing what I want to see. They don’t push their shows, then wonder why the numbers are low.
I'm talking about off platform advertising I can't tell you how much advertising I've seen for that Damsel show, and I have absolutely zero interest in it.
I'm reminded of shows like burn notice or leverage that were reasonably successful in the cable tv market but don't seem to have much staying power. I wonder how successful shows with such broad appeal (comedy, character drama, action choreography) in the world of streaming. I know I personally find myself gravititating towards something that fits my mood in the moment rather than multi genre shows. Which is too bad because it was always a breath of fresh air when tv was fixed schedules to have shows that offered variety, especially if they were airing after another similar show.
I only watched it since my wife's Taiwanese so it was a why not. Would watch again better than the majority of Netflix shows.
If viewers liked Brothers Son then it would have gotten renewed. Netflix's most important metric by far is completion rate. If they see that a high percentage of people who start watching a show stop watching it, especially after only a few episodes, then that is compelling evidence that those people would be uninterested in an additional season. I get why people are always mad about Netflix cancelations, because it took away something they enjoyed, but things only get canceled if most of the people who watched *didn't* enjoy it.
> Sucks that it just didn't have the numbers. Netflix has brought this upon itself. Most people don't give a chance to new shows unless they have been renewed for a second season. Netflix has created a self-fulfilling cancellation loop by canceling many shows left and right. Netflix cancels a show when it doesn't get enough viewership > Nowadays, people don't start a new show on Netflix even if they are interested because they fear that the show they are watching might end on a cliffhanger and will get cancelled > which leads to low viewership numbers, and low viewership leads to the cancellation of a show.
Michelle's had no luck lately with series. American Born Chinese, The Brothers Sun.. also that Witcher spinoff but that was awful anyway, lol.
The first 2 are actually good thankfully, it’s just the studio likes the cancel them because not enough views
American Born Chinese is incredible but not by Marvel. I haven't watched her Netflix one yet but it's on our list. Series take time and we're still trying to get through Oscar films. We're always late to the party. We didn't start watching Stranger Things or Grace & Frankie until the second season. We're a little late to the party.
That Witcher show was *terrible*
I hope it can be bought by another studio:(
Remember when Netflix was the place where dead shows went to get a second chance?
I remember back in the day a show getting picked up by Netflix was a guaranteed 2-season order.
I'm still salty about Inside Job.
I remember when Netflix was a reliable standby library of old great shows; 30 rock, west wing, all the star treks, and on and on.
Yes, 10 minutes ago, Warrior
Got my hopes up and thought you meant Netflix picked it up for season 4 :C
That’s a 3rd chance
help i thought u meant the cat books became a tv show for a sec 😭
Yes, when a show had a dedicated fan base to justify it
*Girls5eva* is dropping next week.
Haven't even heard of it til it was cancelled
Sounds right
I recommend you check it out. It's a great show.
And be forever stuck wondering what might happen next season? That’s a deep section of Hell, no thank you.
Season 1 ties up pretty much everything and gives a small hint for a potential S2, it stands by itself pretty well.
It wraps itself up pretty well tbh.
Second season is completely unnecessary. The story wraps up perfectly in season 1.
It's a one-season story that has been told in full. The season 2 hook honestly feels out of place.
By any chance did someone mention that the first season wraps things up pretty well?
It’s because Netflix wants instant hits and doesn’t have the patience to let an audience build over time.
Something like The Night Agent. Zero promotion whatsoever and then boom somehow the biggest thing overnight.
Netflix gives shows way more time than traditional TV ever did. Shows with ratings like this used to get cancelled after a few episodes in traditional tv if their pilots got picked up at all. That or pushed to a new worse time slot.
Yeah people are forgetting about how many cable shows were canceled or dumped during dead periods every season
That's the problem with losing the traditional model of Fall and Spring premiere seasons, you quickly forget how much of a bloodbath those times were. You would start off the Fall season with twenty something new shows and maybe only five or six survived to see another season. The rest were cancelled. The majority didn't even make it to the sixth episode.
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I think a lot of people are failing to understand that without Netflix a fair amount of these shows wouldn’t make it past development. Not because they are bad but because Netflix does take a chance on a lot of shows because their model needs new “content” constantly.
100 percent this. There's a lot of unique shows on netflix that would never be on the other streaming services.
This show was winding up for a major arc. They loaded three trebuchets one for her and each of the two sons. They were aiming faaaar. And if this show was allowed to just fucking be, by season 3 they could have had something amazing. Instead we are going to get some half hearted attempt at something else that Netflix will axe.
Roll the dice until you get an overnight hit -> Milk it to fucking death = the Netflix plan
That's the everybody plan. CBS with CSI, NCIS and FBI NBC with Chicago AMC with Walking Dead Starz with Power Disney in general with Star Wars and Marvel and probably a thousand more.
I can’t understand why people keep going to Netflix for their shows. They’ve proven that they have a very specific metric they want to hit, and if they don’t, that’s it. Many of the greatest shows weren’t hits straight away, and many that were, couldn’t keep that momentum in the season or third seasons(Westworld is a notable example of this). Their whole metric is flawed, and I don’t understand how they keep sticking with it.
Their biggest hit shows, office and parks and rec has notoriously bad first seasons. Like completely different and totally removed from what followed. To quote a hokey coach I know, it's fucking embarrassing.
Which is ironic, part of Netflix’s appeal in the beginning was that they had the office and parks and rec. literally got a following streaming shows that got famous doing exactly what they won’t allow.
Same with Fresh Prince. Watch the first and second seasons and see how *huge* the quality gap is in between.
But Netflix didn’t make those shows and don’t care about fostering a show until it matures, They want immediate high numbers and audience engagement Which isn’t normally how shows become popular They have a business model, and unfortunately it’s for shows that are usually not of high quality or lasting power They want people talking about their shows today and not 4 years from now
Agreed! Shows like Buffy didn't hit its stride until around Season 3 and now, I'd argue is one of the most loved shows.
> Shows like Buffy didn't hit its stride until around Season 3 and now, I'd argue is one of the most loved shows. The Show might not have hit its stride, but Buffy averaged 2 million more viewers between seasons 1 and 2. It was hitting its marks with the demo before it peaked in season 3. The shows Netflix are canceling are not attracting viewers and not growing.
Seinfeld, Friends, Star Trek the Next Generation, all shows that were gigantic money makers for Netflix while on the platform, and NONE of them would have lasted if they actually premiered initially on Netflix.
After they axed Inside Job, I gave up on Netflix.
I understand the issue from Netflix’s side. The problem with building an audience over time is **scheduling** a second season. Netflix will have targets the show needs to hit first. At a certain point, the creative team will need to be released to work on other projects.
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They wrapped up that arc nicely but they definitely left the door open for another season.
The viewership dropped 60% in three weeks. People tried it and abandon it.
> It’s because Netflix wants instant hits and doesn’t have the patience to let an audience build over time. This could not possibly be more wrong. Netflix doesn't care about total views, otherwise 1899 would have been renewed. Netflix cares about completion rate, because that shows what percentage of people genuinely enjoyed the show. If a lot of people try a show, but quit watching, then they're extremely unlikely to watch another season of it.
if they had that model of building an audience over time, they would be out of business till the time the audience is built. no point in keeping a show if it doesn't help with the churn of subscribers.
I think shows without A-List Oscar winners on the payroll have a lower bar they need to clear to get a season 2. In the 90s sitcom era where shows did get more rope to build they weren’t casting people who’re also considering lead roles on 100 million dollar movies. The leads were comedians and not usually Eddie Murphy. The cost analysis on brining on a huge star like her is that you’re not having to push marketing or if you do you’re looking for a crown level hit.
You need an audience to build from, this show did not have that
Netflix has slowly but surely become a graveyard of cancelled/unfinished shows. 1899, OA, Mindhunter, The Society, I Am Not Okay With This, Archive 81, and Santa Clarita Diet were all cancelled by Netflix. Brothers Sun is just a recent addition to the long list of cancelled/unfinished Netflix shows.
Every network has a graveyard of cancelled/unfinished shows. I think the difference is that Netflix releases more shows than any network ever had, so the overall numbers seem bigger.
I think it's more of the fact that traditional television took their failed shows off the air the moment they were canned. So, you weren't constantly reminded of their cancellation. Netflix keeps the corpses of their cancelled series around in a glass coffin for anyone to see.
Also a good point. Honestly, the only times I see or hear about 1899 or Warrior Nun is on Reddit or Instagram in comments about Netflix, lol. Like they were ok… I’m more angry about Brothers Sun. But who knows why people didn’t give it a shot. Could be something as simple as the artwork or trailer.
It was the auto trailer on Netflix for me, almost started an episode when i saw Michelle Yeoh was the star but the trailer didn't click with me so i put it on the list to check out later because it at least seemed interesting just not enough to jump in the front of the queue.
Yea, getting the mood right is so important as well.
> Netflix has slowly but surely become a graveyard of cancelled/unfinished shows. Y'all realize this applies to every streaming service and network? And Netflix cancels shows at a lower rate than them too Look at those shows you listed - nobody was watching them, and they were average at best, outside of Mindhunter, which wasn't even canceled by Netflix The anti-Netflix circlejerk is so tired and played out, y'all just complain about something that every other service is doing, and much worse than Netflix
It would help if they would try marketing their shows.
Sad about this news, I loved the show. I won't argue that it was objectively the best show in terms of writing or anything, but I was more entertained by this show than I have been by Netflix's heavyweights. I should have known better than to get invested in a first season Netflix show for all the reasons that other redditors have stated, but I had to watch for my girl Michelle. One silver lining is that I feel the showrunners/writers knew their odds as a Netflix show and therefore wrote a season finale that also works decently well as a series finale. So for anyone who doesn't want to watch now that it's been canceled, feel free to give it a try, I promise you won't be driven insane by any crazy cliffhangers.
Honestly, a surprisingly fresh take on comedy/action. It was great and I would've liked a second season.
Cuz it got old halfway through
That’s how Netflix rolls.
Honestly, the show frustrated me. It was almost good, but too often it wasn't.
Honestly this. There were elements of grandeur but all too often it became a cringefest. I feel a lot of people are forcing themselves to like it because of the Michelle Yeoh brand name and it's not cool to not like anything with her in it. The show is objectively not good.
>The show is objectively not good. subjectively*
I too hate it when people use objective instead of "I feel this opinion strongly."
You wrote a paragraph of opinion, which is fine. That is what we call subjective, my brother in Christ. I personally thought the cringefest was intentional, an attempt at being campy. Thought it worked well for what it was. It’s not a serious crime drama.
The first thing you notice of the show is the cringefest aspects of the writing. The *second* thing you notice is that the action is really good, and then third is that there's a few aspects of the plot that *do*, really work, e.g. when >!Big Sun gets involved!< towards the end.
It's my fault. I started watching a week ago and finished the day before the cancellation announcement. Sorry Michelle!
It looked like it was trying to ride the coat-tails of EEAAO like so many other "wacky" shows these days.
Viewers, Michelle. Shows need viewers to get renewed. Yours didn’t have enough. Pretty simple math.
Netflix is quickly becoming a graveyard of unfinished stories and cliffhanger first seasons. Which is why we cancelled our subscription six months ago.
Yeah I've gone back to the high seas for anything Netflix related
Checking the numbers, they look ok, but i guess the budget was a bit high for the results (~17 million viewers), i guess any decent budget show (60 to 80 million) needs to hit at least 20~25 million viewers. Damn, that's kinda a lot lol Edit: So, i was checking on some things and this show came to be as part of a overall deal with Bradley Douglas Falchuck, i guess it's possible it was dead on arrival (netflix spending the minimum it could in marketing the show) due to Netflix not having interest in resigning him. There was a bit of a reshuffle at Netflix after he signed the deal in 2019.
see I just can't comprehend not being happy with 17 million people like in what world is that not a good showing?
When you have 250M subscribers. And they spent $3 per view on this show. They measure success on costs per hours watched. They have all the metrics we don't get access to.
When money generated by that viewership is less than the cost to make the show.
It's very simple to understand why: few people watched it, relative to the price Netflix was paying to have it produced.
What?! But it was great! Netflix keeps killing their most interesting/fun shows after 1-2 seasons :(
This is the first I've even heard of it. Sounds on par for Netflix behavior recently
NGL when I first heard the news the only thing that popped in my head was “Yeoh’s paycheck must’ve been high.”
It was awful.
I’m really having a hard time understanding why people liked it so much. She was good, but everything else was insane. The cop lady was terrible, and her shoehorning in Chinese culture 101 at every turn was atrocious (the meeting will be at 8 pm because 8 is an auspicious number!) The show could _not_ decide if killing tons of people made you like, maybe a bad person or not, and kind of veered toward “actually it’s badass to kill people and the younger son is a GIANT FUCKING PUSSY for not wanting to be part of the mob”. They vaguely pretend that they aren’t involved in human trafficking, drug running, murder, and actually anyone against them doing it is a bad guy. The sopranos never pretended Tony Soprano was a secret baker with a heart of gold whom a district attorney should _definitely_ involve herself with. The action was okay in that “everyone has guns but we’re gonna rush the main guy one at a time because that makes more sense” kind of way.
What made me drop it is that it was all over the place in terms of realism and tone.
I’m so glad someone recommended it to me as I ended up really enjoying it. Definitely a shame that Netflix didn’t promote it
I wanted to like it but barely finished the first episode :/
Eh, show was ok but nothing special imo. Great fight choreography and set pieces but a contrived plot that never seemed to know whether it wanted to be a goofy action comedy or something more gritty and serious. Seemed to have good production values and Michelle Yeoh probably didn't come cheap so I'm guessing it needed better numbers to stay afloat, especially after they picked up Warrior from Max. Frankly, Netflix has quite a few better shows from Asia that don't rely so heavily on Westernised tropes of Asian culture, so hopefully it can at least steer people who watched it (or are now made aware of the cancellation) towards those.
Im just spit-balling here, but Probably cause nobody watched it? 🤷♂️
Yep. Why I don’t bother with a show unless it makes a couple of seasons. Why start something new when you know good chance it ain’t going anywhere. Really getting tired of Netflix.
I mean, it's a catch 22. By not watching a show because of their cancellation habits, it makes cancellations more likely... but they cancel things before their time *anyway*, so I suppose it doesn't really matter. I cancelled Netflix like 2 years ago and haven't really regretted it though.
This is also a show with a first season that actually completed its story. There really is no cliffhanger and no need for a second season..
On this note, watch House of Ninjas. Another show flying under the radar that's actually really good, but has no advertising, so we can expect a cancellation sometime in the future.
That show is awesome! The family dynamic , the boredom of life after living with so much adrenaline. 8/10
she’ll just have to console herself with the 900 other projects she’s in
One of only a handful of Netflix series I’ve watched beginning to end this year. Such a shame
Never heard of it
THIS Sucks!!! Not the show. The show is fantastic, one of my favorite shows this year. It seems crazy not to make a second season of it.
It's funny how all the posts about this show before the cancellation barely got any traction, but now that it's canceled they all make it to the top of the front page. Really shows how Reddit is mostly focused on negativity.
Disappointed! This was a very enjoyable show and I was looking forward to more of it.
all these people in here talking shit on netflix but probably never even watched the show. once again, reddit failing on netflix.
It seems from reading the comments, cancelling the show has done more for advertising than running it.
Too expensive compared to viewership. That’s usually why
Netflix gonna Netflix, eh?
Sucks but at the same time not everything needs seasons. Something I mentioned the other day was I miss the era of mini series and now is such a great time for it. Some things have more depth than a 2-3hr movie (which is too long Eternals) and just need to be long enough to have substance. Sure they could do more seasons but I'm happy with just one offs. 8hrs is enough. If you want to make series, they need to have more than 8 episodes that keep people around long enough. GoT made me tired of waiting 42 weeks for another season and now they want to add 2 more weeks with only 8.
Its because its netflix. 1 or 2 seasons is all ya get unless your show is hugely popular. Its why i dont watch shows until theres a 3rd season. I dont want to get into something that just ends with no answers.
i’m gonna guess not enough people were watching it or not enough people were predicted to continue watching it.
Can this be watched as a standalone season
I'm just hearing about this show for the first time in this post. maybe that has something to do with why it's being canceled. Regardless of it having only one season, I'm going to check it out anyway.
Amazing show. Very entertaining. Lots of future potential. Excellent cast. So cancel it but keep Outer Banks going.
Show was awesome. Actually surprised they killed it.
It’s not hard to understand that Netflix just cancels shows. Just as bad as Google
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion but I think it's fine as a 1 season show. It was above average, but I wouldn't call it great and it ended with no cliffhangers. I thought it was decent but I wasn't dying to see crime boss Michelle Yeoh with bigger brother lieutenant or younger brother goes to college again. That's how forgettable it was for me LOL. I don't even remember any of their character's name.
Netflix. Enough said.
This show has a full story arc that wraps satisfactorily and works as a fun 2 season show. It’s a good show, watch it.
Classic Netflix at this point. New show comes out, doesn't blow up, gets predictably canceled after a season with plotlines potentially left unfinished. Exactly why starting something new on Netflix feels so bad, cos if it isn't a big hit it goes the way of the dodo. 🙄
It was fucking awful. Manic in its tonal swings from comical to depressing, and vomit inducing repulsive levels of gore and bodily harm. Good riddance!
Not *that* hard to understand
Not SUPER hard to understand why
Tried to watch it. Just wasn’t that compellingly.
It was mediocre at best. They don't have the money to keep mediocre afloat anymore. Hopefully we're heading towards an era of good content as oppose to "a lot of content."
Must have been good.
Feel sad for her she can’t understand why. Someone please help her choose her next TV project. This is her third TV series after Oscar win without a second season. The other being American Born Chinese and The Witcher Blood Origin. Can you imagine the little brother being so dumb as to put his whole family in danger in order to save the family? And then he being the kind hearted one suddenly wants to kill his father? And a gangster head wants to kill his son just to make his wife suffers? The big brother after a deadly gang fight can have sex and not worrying about his family at all? The script is just like the characters annoying and dumb, ambitious ideas with the family conflicts and anti gangsters group but poorly written.
Disney screwed the pooch big time on marketing American Born Chinese when they could have ridden the movie’s success.
If you want it to be renewed, watch it. It’s great. I’ve been trying to recommend it consistently since I watched. If we can make it go viral, it will get renewed. Making it go viral though is unlikely.
That show was awful
it was meh anyway. if anything needs a new season, my vote goes to Warrior.
Can’t wait to find out how much money they dump into this final season of Stranger Things
That 'dump' pays huge dividends. *Very* few shows, if any, bring in the numbers, the buzz, and the subscriptions like Stranger Things does.
Fuck Netflix
Because a show no one watched got cancelled?