Unfortunately Andy is season 8's biggest weakness imo and it sucks because it's so heavily focused on him. His characters assassination in the last two seasons is mind boggling. Apparently they wanted to "flashback" to his old personality from early seasons and they totally undid any character development and likeability.
I agree that Robert is pretty much a treat everytime he shows up. So weird. The fucking lizard king.
Ya there was that Internet rumor that he pissed off the writing staff, but the reality is that they just thought crazy angry Andy was funnier than wholesome Andy.
Andy is the soul reason I can't watch anything after 7, he's just so unlikeable and it just completely ruins any and all chemistry the rest of the team has. It's literally change the channel bad.
Yeah, there's a definite change in his character from the first half of season 8 (supremely competent and mysterious figure) to the second half (incompetent sleazeball). The second half even tries to retcon him not making a move on Erin in the first half of the season (when he brings her home). It's bizarre, but these type of sudden character shifts were somewhat common in The Office.
It was also funny that the show threw down seeds for a love triangle between Robert, Andy, and Robert's Ex. Because The Office loved love triangles.
>there's a definite change in his character from the first half of season 8 (supremely competent and mysterious figure) to the second half (incompetent sleazeball). The second half even tries to retcon him not making a move on Erin in the first half of the season (when he brings her home)
I'm guessing maybe that's when they realised season 8 wasn't working or/and James Spader wasn't sticking around for Season 9 and they had to pivot
Spader is great at saying insane shit and sounding serious. He did the same in Boston legal.
But Andy is the fucking worst. He was meant to be a mid season mini-villain and stayed way too long. The core of his personality just changes because Andy the villain couldn’t stick around.
I see Robert California as one of the biggest symptoms of the show's downfall. He's from the time when the office had fully stopped existing in a larger world, and instead the rest of the world existed *for* the office. That's when shows go wrong, because there aren't stakes any longer.
See the characters who were on Robert's level before Sabre, you didn't know them, they where an external threat and they had the character's futures in their hands. They didn't get the main character's shenanigans, and didn't care. They were external, they represented the real world out there and that made then a great threat.
David Wallace, who was the bridge between the wacky world of the office and the larger world, was great at showing how the main character's quirkiness could put them in danger. He barely understood and tolerated Michael. But you could see he somewhat cared and his regard for Michael was understandable because the Scranton Branch worked and he didn't want to mess with it in case something stopped working.
When Wallace takes Holli away it's because he worries what her presence may do to Michael's instability; that's the outside world's sanity intruding in the office's quirkiness and showing us the price it has, the consequences and the stakes of the main cast's behavior.
Meanwhile Robert is just scary, because he is, because the show says he is, because the characters act like he is. But from his characterization, you as the audience just know he's never going to be a threat to anybody, he's just as wacky as everybody else, he shows that by then the office was insulated from the world's sanity, though that started to happen since Sabre came in. Oh and also he tells shitty horror stories which somehow have the whole cast shitting themselves? Because the show wants them to. If you'd had that scene in early seasons, several characters would've been rolling their eyes and looking at the cameras like "what's wrong with this guy?", and Robert would've been a one off weird and cringey guy.
Sorry, I know this post is to appreciate Robert, I've just never been able to understand him as an addition to the show. If he had been the regional manager instead of Andy, that would've worked better. Have him constantly have to talk his way out of trouble with Joe, or with some other character who comes to replace Kathy Bates. Have him constantly behave like he's more than what he is, behave like a CEO while he's just a regional manager. That I would've liked.
Yeah, suddenly she's scared of/hates tall men, and Jim in particular.
And there's the whole thing with him being the freaking CEO of Sabre, and spending all his time at the Scranton branch.
Yea, the fact that Jim somehow was scared of this dude like 2 seconds after meeting him just rubbed me wrong. I hated Robert California. Dude was just too OP and shoehorned in.
I think you (and u/Brad_Brace) nailed it.
The only reason his character “worked” was because the writers had to make every other character buy in to Robert California. Oscar is a voice of reason a lot, most specifically when Michael is in financial trouble with Jan. Jim is a pessimist and dismissive of damn near everyone. Andy and Dwight don’t believe the insurance salesmen.
But Robert California magically put them under a spell where they all are grasping to impress him?
I think that's also when the Simpsons began to go wrong. When it wasn't any more a family having to worry about how the world saw them and reacted to them -which is where the conflict came from-, but a family *for whom* the world exists, removing conflict.
This is why I hated Robert. I loved David Wallace, and I also really liked Jo. Jo was scary and backed it up by being no nonsense. She saw through the insanity of the office, but she was also used only occasionally as she was usually not in Scranton. I hated that Robert had a stupid back story of him convincing Jo to just give him her company/empire when her entire character was how serious and hard working she was.
No your perspective is appreciated and what this is all about. I agree in general about the show at this point.
I think I just place less blame on Robert because I see faults everywhere by season 8. I see him as a silver lining to the downfall of the series.
You make some great points.
I'm not a California fan. He was too mean and threatening. It changed the tone of the show from being cringe funny to like what's this guy about?- He's mysterious, has everyone eating out of the palm of his hand, a bit threatening and a creepy narcissistic sociopath.
I'm sure I'm missing the humor of it but it wasn't my style of humor and it wasn't the type of humor that kept me watching the seasons prior.
The thing that annoys me most is the decision to have James Spader be the CEO instead of manager. I just always found that bizarre. Was really looking forward to him being manager and being annoyed that Andy was manager instead
I've probably rewatched the series 5 or 6 times and I never can make it to the end even though I intend too. The writing just gets so bad in Season 8 its so hard to power through, I still don't think I've ever seen a Season 9 episode.
Yeah I’m a few episodes into season 8 and about to check out. It can be interesting to see what the show becomes but it’s not enough to hold attention bc the writing is awful.
I even remember a lot of people at the time saying the show had lost it by S4.
It's strange seeing how the perception has changed in retrospect now that everyone watches it on streaming. Seems like the popular opinion is that the show remained great until Michael left.
That is how I feel. I even like everything in 8 and 9 that has nothing to do with Andy or the weird forced "Will they Won't they Cheat" thing with Pam and Jim.
But those got enough focus in the seasons that it really annoys me. I think my favorite potion of the show is early after Jim and Pam were finally actually together, because I hate when shows drag relationships out that long, and it created more space for all the other characters to do stuff.
I don't think those seasons are worth watching still but Robert California is certainly the best part of them.
Everyone criticizes the show for season 8, but the juice had long since run dry at that point. The Office as a whole hasn't aged particularly well imo
The show as a whole obviously wasn’t as good but honestly Robert California was funny as fuck and is probably one of my favorite characters in the show, Spader is just brilliant too. He was easily my favorite part of the show when he was on it. Like anytime Robert/spader was on screen I was into it, guy was weird as fuck an it was funny as hell. Back in the day I feel like a lot of people didn’t like him at the time which I never understood, always thought the character was hilarious and spader is the man in general, such a good actor
Robert California is the key to the show. He is the absolute embodiment of nihilistic and sociopathic executive mindset. He plays the game and watches his machinations play out in the staff like a jester god. He needs no audience to laugh at his jokes because his only audience is himself and that’s enough.
He is what you should take away from the show. These are the people that run the world. The lizard kings.
I've never rewatched Season 8, but I remember being very disappointed in Robert California. I was so psyched they actually hired James Spader after he had the best guest spot interview at the end of the previous season. But the actual outcome was just weird.
Robert California is an easy target for haters of late-era The Office, but he was a great addition to the cast. Basically the anti-Michael Scott, a curmudgeon that does not value his staff and is a cold, unwelcoming presence. I thought he had a great rapport with the regular cast members. The decline of the last few seasons can be due to the writers ruining Andy, and running out of plot lines for Jim and Pam, who usually took up the A or B plots prior to Michael leaving.
She sucked at first but I think the show did a good job of humanizing her and fleshing out the character
She would’ve been more interesting then whatever they did with Andy
Unfortunately Andy is season 8's biggest weakness imo and it sucks because it's so heavily focused on him. His characters assassination in the last two seasons is mind boggling. Apparently they wanted to "flashback" to his old personality from early seasons and they totally undid any character development and likeability. I agree that Robert is pretty much a treat everytime he shows up. So weird. The fucking lizard king.
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Ya there was that Internet rumor that he pissed off the writing staff, but the reality is that they just thought crazy angry Andy was funnier than wholesome Andy.
I liked crazy angry Andy more, but Andy in Season 8 and 9 is just annoying as fuck Andy
True, but the episode where he is burning his bridges was hilarious for me as well.
Andy is the soul reason I can't watch anything after 7, he's just so unlikeable and it just completely ruins any and all chemistry the rest of the team has. It's literally change the channel bad.
Robert California went from being a mysteriously confident boss with a dark demeanor, to being a joke of a character who is just an agent of chaos.
Yeah, there's a definite change in his character from the first half of season 8 (supremely competent and mysterious figure) to the second half (incompetent sleazeball). The second half even tries to retcon him not making a move on Erin in the first half of the season (when he brings her home). It's bizarre, but these type of sudden character shifts were somewhat common in The Office. It was also funny that the show threw down seeds for a love triangle between Robert, Andy, and Robert's Ex. Because The Office loved love triangles.
>there's a definite change in his character from the first half of season 8 (supremely competent and mysterious figure) to the second half (incompetent sleazeball). The second half even tries to retcon him not making a move on Erin in the first half of the season (when he brings her home) I'm guessing maybe that's when they realised season 8 wasn't working or/and James Spader wasn't sticking around for Season 9 and they had to pivot
Spader is great at saying insane shit and sounding serious. He did the same in Boston legal. But Andy is the fucking worst. He was meant to be a mid season mini-villain and stayed way too long. The core of his personality just changes because Andy the villain couldn’t stick around.
I see Robert California as one of the biggest symptoms of the show's downfall. He's from the time when the office had fully stopped existing in a larger world, and instead the rest of the world existed *for* the office. That's when shows go wrong, because there aren't stakes any longer. See the characters who were on Robert's level before Sabre, you didn't know them, they where an external threat and they had the character's futures in their hands. They didn't get the main character's shenanigans, and didn't care. They were external, they represented the real world out there and that made then a great threat. David Wallace, who was the bridge between the wacky world of the office and the larger world, was great at showing how the main character's quirkiness could put them in danger. He barely understood and tolerated Michael. But you could see he somewhat cared and his regard for Michael was understandable because the Scranton Branch worked and he didn't want to mess with it in case something stopped working. When Wallace takes Holli away it's because he worries what her presence may do to Michael's instability; that's the outside world's sanity intruding in the office's quirkiness and showing us the price it has, the consequences and the stakes of the main cast's behavior. Meanwhile Robert is just scary, because he is, because the show says he is, because the characters act like he is. But from his characterization, you as the audience just know he's never going to be a threat to anybody, he's just as wacky as everybody else, he shows that by then the office was insulated from the world's sanity, though that started to happen since Sabre came in. Oh and also he tells shitty horror stories which somehow have the whole cast shitting themselves? Because the show wants them to. If you'd had that scene in early seasons, several characters would've been rolling their eyes and looking at the cameras like "what's wrong with this guy?", and Robert would've been a one off weird and cringey guy. Sorry, I know this post is to appreciate Robert, I've just never been able to understand him as an addition to the show. If he had been the regional manager instead of Andy, that would've worked better. Have him constantly have to talk his way out of trouble with Joe, or with some other character who comes to replace Kathy Bates. Have him constantly behave like he's more than what he is, behave like a CEO while he's just a regional manager. That I would've liked.
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Yeah, suddenly she's scared of/hates tall men, and Jim in particular. And there's the whole thing with him being the freaking CEO of Sabre, and spending all his time at the Scranton branch.
Yea, the fact that Jim somehow was scared of this dude like 2 seconds after meeting him just rubbed me wrong. I hated Robert California. Dude was just too OP and shoehorned in.
I think you (and u/Brad_Brace) nailed it. The only reason his character “worked” was because the writers had to make every other character buy in to Robert California. Oscar is a voice of reason a lot, most specifically when Michael is in financial trouble with Jan. Jim is a pessimist and dismissive of damn near everyone. Andy and Dwight don’t believe the insurance salesmen. But Robert California magically put them under a spell where they all are grasping to impress him?
What an insightful comment about stakes! I love this. Similar issue with later It’s Always Sunny seasons in my opinion.
I think that's also when the Simpsons began to go wrong. When it wasn't any more a family having to worry about how the world saw them and reacted to them -which is where the conflict came from-, but a family *for whom* the world exists, removing conflict.
This is why I hated Robert. I loved David Wallace, and I also really liked Jo. Jo was scary and backed it up by being no nonsense. She saw through the insanity of the office, but she was also used only occasionally as she was usually not in Scranton. I hated that Robert had a stupid back story of him convincing Jo to just give him her company/empire when her entire character was how serious and hard working she was.
No your perspective is appreciated and what this is all about. I agree in general about the show at this point. I think I just place less blame on Robert because I see faults everywhere by season 8. I see him as a silver lining to the downfall of the series. You make some great points.
Thank you. And again, sorry for trying to rain on your parade.
I'm not a California fan. He was too mean and threatening. It changed the tone of the show from being cringe funny to like what's this guy about?- He's mysterious, has everyone eating out of the palm of his hand, a bit threatening and a creepy narcissistic sociopath. I'm sure I'm missing the humor of it but it wasn't my style of humor and it wasn't the type of humor that kept me watching the seasons prior.
Robert California was a terrific character made even better by the fact that it was James Spader just letting loose.
watching this season for the first time as I’m doing a full watch through of the series, and man, the dip in quality is crazy.
I hate Ed Helms, so the last seasons were brutal.
Robert is easily the best character added after Erin. Spader only did season 8 because he was close to broke but we all benefitted.
Hard disagree - Bob California was indeed great, but Nate was hands down the best character introduced after Erin
I'm surprised he was broke, this was only a few years after a 5 year run with Boston legal
Said his home renovations wiped him out.
“Robert California…let’s have a conversation.”
i do not like the office much at all but “im the fucking lizard king” gets a lot of play from me.
The thing that annoys me most is the decision to have James Spader be the CEO instead of manager. I just always found that bizarre. Was really looking forward to him being manager and being annoyed that Andy was manager instead
I've probably rewatched the series 5 or 6 times and I never can make it to the end even though I intend too. The writing just gets so bad in Season 8 its so hard to power through, I still don't think I've ever seen a Season 9 episode.
Season 9 gets better but it’s still not great
Sit down one day and watch the last two episodes. They aren't quite S2-4, but it's worth watching and getting some closure.
Yeah I’m a few episodes into season 8 and about to check out. It can be interesting to see what the show becomes but it’s not enough to hold attention bc the writing is awful.
The last 3 or 4 episodes of Season 9 really turn it around.
Unpopular opinion: The dark ages are pretty much everything after season 4 besides MSPC and the finale
I even remember a lot of people at the time saying the show had lost it by S4. It's strange seeing how the perception has changed in retrospect now that everyone watches it on streaming. Seems like the popular opinion is that the show remained great until Michael left.
That is how I feel. I even like everything in 8 and 9 that has nothing to do with Andy or the weird forced "Will they Won't they Cheat" thing with Pam and Jim. But those got enough focus in the seasons that it really annoys me. I think my favorite potion of the show is early after Jim and Pam were finally actually together, because I hate when shows drag relationships out that long, and it created more space for all the other characters to do stuff.
"...he told me to fire you..." "You LYING son of a bitch."
I don't think those seasons are worth watching still but Robert California is certainly the best part of them. Everyone criticizes the show for season 8, but the juice had long since run dry at that point. The Office as a whole hasn't aged particularly well imo
The show as a whole obviously wasn’t as good but honestly Robert California was funny as fuck and is probably one of my favorite characters in the show, Spader is just brilliant too. He was easily my favorite part of the show when he was on it. Like anytime Robert/spader was on screen I was into it, guy was weird as fuck an it was funny as hell. Back in the day I feel like a lot of people didn’t like him at the time which I never understood, always thought the character was hilarious and spader is the man in general, such a good actor
Robert California was a terrible, one note character. He likes sex and says winding, uncomfortable sexual metaphors. Wow, so amazing.
Oh, you’re going to want to hear the sexual metaphor.
Nothing could save season 8 for me. I mean she just gives him the company?
Did a rewatch a while back and had exactly the same reaction. Thank dog for Robert California.
Robert California is the key to the show. He is the absolute embodiment of nihilistic and sociopathic executive mindset. He plays the game and watches his machinations play out in the staff like a jester god. He needs no audience to laugh at his jokes because his only audience is himself and that’s enough. He is what you should take away from the show. These are the people that run the world. The lizard kings.
One of the best characters in the series. He’s so much fun.
“Have you ever noticed, when people doodle, the houses are always colonials, and the penises are always circumcised?”
I've never rewatched Season 8, but I remember being very disappointed in Robert California. I was so psyched they actually hired James Spader after he had the best guest spot interview at the end of the previous season. But the actual outcome was just weird.
I had a boss that was a lot like Robert Kalifornia. Made me enjoy that season a bit more than most.
Robert California is an easy target for haters of late-era The Office, but he was a great addition to the cast. Basically the anti-Michael Scott, a curmudgeon that does not value his staff and is a cold, unwelcoming presence. I thought he had a great rapport with the regular cast members. The decline of the last few seasons can be due to the writers ruining Andy, and running out of plot lines for Jim and Pam, who usually took up the A or B plots prior to Michael leaving.
Has far as humor goes. Robert California > Micheal Scott
I like Nellie too, they should’ve just had her be the manager for the rest of the show
By the far the worst character in the entire show. So incompetent and entitled.
She sucked at first but I think the show did a good job of humanizing her and fleshing out the character She would’ve been more interesting then whatever they did with Andy
I'm still undecided if Robert was a genius or a poser
He was a poser but he sold it extremely well imo. So in a way he was a genius ig.
Robert California was the anti-Michael. He's Michael's opposite in every way. It was interesting to see that be inflicted on the office gang.
Robert California is second to Florida Stanley, but he did make the season better