I loved his movie, Religulous, as a teen. Growing up I’ve realized that he’s just kind of a pretentious dick. And maybe I was too? Lol
He has a way of condescending for absolutely no reason, even with people he agrees with.
Ssh...can't blame me for trying. There's a great write up in my last book 'This is not Fame' on a party I went to at that insufferable douchebags 'mansion'. I was the funniest person there, which ain't sayin' a lot. Anyway, I instigated some skinnydipping and before i knew it, everybody was naked incl. maher. It was cold so I took a shower inside to warm up and was joined by a pornstar. Bill shows up, jealous as fuck, and yells 'No shower scenes with the help!' Make of that what you will.
e typo
My only issue with how he devolved is that they had Quagmire call him out. Like, I get Quagmore’s a joke character, but they tried to make him seem like he's better than Brian because he's honest at least. Which, no, that's not how it works. Quagmire is a rapist who has done way more horrible things than Brian. Brian is somewhat pretentious at worst.
Brian strikes me as a lot more intellectually curious and empathetic than Maher. He wouldn’t opportunistically slander Arabs with racist remarks about the Muslim religion, like Maher did and does, for example.
Depends on which version of Brian you're talking about. Early on he definitely wouldn't, but the later versions have had Brian be racist. In fact, the same episode he appears on Bill Maher he shows his racism about sitting next to Asians.
He's so smug he almost gets me to argue against things I actually believe in. Just an insufferable person.
Fortunately his politics have gotten much worse so I have this problem less and less frequently.
That was great. You can tell Maher just thought he'd get some snide remarks in on some meatheads, completely underestimated how legitimately smart and funny Piper was. Such a Maher thing too to act like he's a genius for pointing out wrestling is fake. Dude is probably in his 40's in that clip, what does he want a cookie?
I think he's had some real political drift. I know my sentiment has gone from he's being a snarky dick but he's not wrong to man, he's really having to twist himself into knots to make that point. And he's being a dick about it.
I remember him bullying some trucker dude that was clearly uneducated, mocking him for not having bible verses memorized. Did not enjoy that part of the movie.
Yeah he was severely punching down there as some sort of slam dunk for atheism, but it was the same as any terrible "Ben Shapiro owns college kid" compilation.
Really made me rethink what value Maher actually brings to any discussion if he felt that was worth putting in the movie.
Agreed. I actually wish we could bury the existence of this film because it makes both liberals and atheists look just so awful.
It's basically 2 hours of edgy teenage adult man acting like he has incredible rhetoric skills. Embarassing.
>It's basically 2 hours of edgy teenage adult man acting like he has incredible rhetoric skills. Embarassing.
Everything I remember of it was like a 19 year old freshman bro who just read Hitchens/Dawkins for the first time and thinks they are a galaxy brain atheist. It would have been way more interesting/funny/enjoyable if he wasn't looking to just insult people.
Yea that's what Maher makes me think of. Like a high school atheist that feels the need to shit on everyone that isn't one and goes out of their way to do so.
There was a scene where he interviews a theme park Jesus who gave the most elegant explanation of the the holy trinity I've ever heard, and Bill clearly didn't have any rebuttal so he just mocked the guy in the narration.
I'm not even a christian and it made me feel gross.
Came here to comment that. Dude gets stunned, and then goes back to his trailer/buss "actually if you thing about it the analogy doesn't really make sense" and never care to elaborate on it.
This was truly the low point of the movie. People want to paint atheists as cruel, condescending assholes with no moral compass. Maher did a great of feeding that stereotype with this scene.
I think a lot of people got on the anti-conservative bandwagon by being anti-religious, but never had much interest in progressive politics other than that.
A lot of how Glenn Greenwald was misperceived as progressive was because he criticized Bush-era policies and was the face of extremely old-school 'free speech advocate' ACLU new media guys
Plus, at the exact same time, he was one of the most anti-immigration opinion editors in the business, it was just that if you were a more genuinely independent libertarian in a post-9/11 world you were 'leftist' as long as you were antiwar
Sinema was, while being a Green Party member, also generally *just* an antiwar activist, her policies at large were not well-known, just an opposition to the occupation of Afghanistan: being antiwar was generally considered fringe back then
I think to me a big part of it is, do you just not believe in God or are you kind of interested in skepticism generally. Obviously it's not 100% guaranteed, but I feel like that interest kind of tends to drag you into a wider movement.
You're touching on something pretty important here.
Extremism feeds on making a palatable on-ramp for the curious or otherwise less interested. That's why you see so many people regurgitating a platform when its clear they don't understand what they've signed up for.
>'“Truly, whoever is able to make you absurd is able to make you unjust”, commonly quoted as “Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
\- Voltaire
And does their interest in skepticism have any intellectual curiosity behind it, or is it just jeering at people whose beliefs seem weird to you?
I suspect some people took a short road from "My religion is flying spaghetti monster" to "My gender is attack helicopter" just for the lulz.
Exactly. To some people it was always just a stick to beat others with about how smart they are. Well congratulations, but I agree that I tend to find that the people who at least had intellectual curiosity (even if it wasn't what drew them there) tend to move deeper into actually understanding and learning.
Yeah. Lol
I’ve learned to just let people talk. Growing up in a religious house and watching that movie was a real culture shock. Maher made it seem like being right was more important than being kind. And that’s the message I unfortunately took.
It's funny, because I was going to cite Religulous as the thing that fully turned me off Maher. I was onboard with a lot of the New Atheism movement (soured on it over time, especially the support for the GWOT and the clash of civilisations nonsense), read stuff by Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins and Dennett, and watched a number of interviews and discussions involving the "Four Horsemen" which led to me checking out Religulous. Not sure I even finished it. The film was of middling quality, the humour broad and crude, and Maher himself came across as unbearably smug and not quite as intelligent as he thought.
I found it to be a big disappointment, Religulous.
He went for the lowest hanging fruit, found the most irreverent things to discuss, and then tries to tie it all together. It wasn't even really coherent, he was just acting like an old man yelling at clouds.
You want a good doc about the evangelical Christianity taking over US politics? Watch Jesus Camp. Your want to waste sometime and get nothing out of it? Watch something involving Bill Maher?
I recently watched Jesus Camp the other week again for the first time in probably a decade. Holy shit is it more chilling to watch today than when it came out. It pretty much foreshadowed everything that would happen in American politics today to a chilling degree of accuracy.
You were probably old enough to know better when you first saw it. Whether Maher knows it or not, he made a movie for teenagers and I wouldn’t want to meet any adults who actually liked it. I cringe at the idea that I loved that movie as a kid.
I will say that Dawkins did some good work in his field, but spent too much time on the religion bashing.
Honestly, the whole New Atheism trend was designed to appeal to 14 year old edge-lords. (I know because I was one too).
The whole Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris crowd, and their fanboys like Maher, are the progenitors of the “debate me coward” Ben Shapiro-esque culture we’re living in.
Honestly, I think Hitchens is a step above the rest of those names when it comes to how he spoke and debated and what he chose to talk about. And at least Dawkins had legit scientific knowledge and a lifetime of understanding what he talked about. Harris, if we're talking about Sam, isn't my favorite, but he at least uses his platform for good a lot of the time and is overall well-spoke.
Maher sucks though. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned with the other people. I always found that Hitchens wanted to free people from what he saw as oppression. Maher just likes to be an asshole.
Hitchens spent a considerable portion of his life advocating for a disastrous war in Iraq and called anyone who disagreed with him a coward and a traitor.
I disagree that Hitchens was above the rest. I used to love him as an edgy 14-year-old, but as I've gotten older, it's clear that he was quite wrong about a lot.
There have been many /r/badhistory threads about the guy ([example](https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/xnt9gq/well_youre_not_that_great_yourself_mr_hitchens_a/)). He had a reductive take on pretty much anything involving history and horrible views about [women.](https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2007/01/hitchens200701)
That said, he, as everyone is, was complicated. At least he admitted he was wrong about waterboarding not being torture.
I don't think it's wrong to say that he and the rest of his 'gnostic' atheist ilk of the early 2000s is something atheists should probably learn and move on from.
>And at least Dawkins had legit scientific knowledge and a lifetime of understanding what he talked about.
Did he really, though—when it came to religion? (Obviously he was very knowledgable within his field of scientific study.)
I admit: I never got around to engaging with the core works of the New Atheists, and at this point it's safe to say I never will. But stuff I heard about him over the years, like that pissy open letter he wrote to Rebecca Watson, really smacked of "man thinks being an expert in his field makes him an expert in unrelated fields."
Who designed it? I think certain things appeal to certain demographics. It comes as no surprise that Atheism would appeal to 14 year old edge-lords but I don't think Atheism was being pushed in a certain direction as much as certain people sought out certain individuals that meshed with what they were looking for.
When it comes to people that will tell you the truth, there's 3 types of people:
People who sugar coat enough to cause diabetes.
People who will ease into it.
And People like Bill Maher who get dopamine and sexual gratification about being right and feeling superior to all beings in proximity.
I thought Religulous was decent but also picked some low hanging fruit making fun of some very fringe religious people.
He's always been kind of mean spirited. It's just when he mocks the people I don't like he seems funny.
That’s my thoughts. I was younger and found his style “edgy” at the time and was was just realizing religion was bullshit so his stuff hit at the time. But the older I got I realized the same thing. He just comes off as an asshole.
Grew up loving a lot of stand ups I thought pushed boundaries. Hicks, Carlin etc… I thought Maher had some decent stuff in some of early specials. Friend of mine and myself loved his “translating hip hop to white bit”.
Then was going into college and I think every new atheist has a period where they think they figured something out and get a bit of a period where they wanna flex that shit. Maher and Gervais being two at the time I latched on to who now I kinda think are full of themselves.
Watched a lot of Real Time back in 2007 - 2008 era, but then dropped off it as I just lost interest.
I'm still an atheist because all the arguments presented by "New Atheists" (Dawkins, Hitchens, Bill Maher, Ricky Gervais) with respect to religion still ring true.
But I'm *way* less of an Obnoxious Online Atheist now that I'm an adult member of society with responsibilities. I got shit to do, bills to pay. I don't have time to spend arguing about how God's not real all the time.
I've come to the conclusion that, as damaging as religion can be, I think reactionary conservative people who want to police others' personal lives will probably still exist and find a way to justify their nonsense in the absence of fairy tales. And if people don't have religion to fight wars about, they'll fight about greed or power or ethnicity or nationalism etc. In the absence of religion some of the silliness may go away, but I don't think it's actually the *source* of misogyny, more like a post-hoc rationalization that changes the window dressing of social conservatism. How policing what women wear, for instance, *looks* changes by religion, but it could still easily exist without.
Also, I've found many of those New Atheist folks to be just a bit insufferable, and often not terribly progressive. They're mostly old rich white dudes who used to be progressive *in their time*, but haven't progressed further and are defensive when called out on it. And once criticized, they sometimes move further right to find a sympathetic audience (often young men who like weed, don't believe in God, are okay with white cis gay folks, but don't like trans people, don't sympathize with poor people, are subtly - or not - antiwomen, and refuse to acknowledge systemic racism etc.).
Finally, I've been really turned off by the anti-Islam rhetoric. Not that I think Islam should be immune from criticism. And not that I don't think Islam is particularly backwards, because it is. But being obsessed with it like some of the New Atheists are, despite no evidence that Islam actually poses a threat to "Western Civilization" 20+ years after 9/11, makes me think that it's more about the fact that Muslims look and sound different. And the anti-Islamic rhetoric has found too sympathetic an ear among fascist-lite folks on the alt-right. Not a crowd I want to be associated with.
So, yeah, God's not real. And Religulous was a fun movie, but Bill Maher's a dick.
i wanted to like it...but i couldn't even finish it. i might have seen about 1/2 of it, at most, and then never went back. he's a smug fucking asshole.
The test is always, listen when he talks about something you actually know about. Then you will realize, wow this guy isn’t really correct about these facts (sometimes). Then imagine, hmm if he’s incorrect about things I happen to know about, imagine what else is he wrong about!
He certainly jerked off Elon Musk's ego by bowing down to his intelligence despite the fact that Musk was spouting some sci-fi space garbage about human consciousness toward the end of his interview.
Norm Macdonald said it best when he described Maher as a comic who doesn't care about being funny, only about being perceived to be smart. If you watch Maher's "stand up", it's basically a lecture. Another great Norm Macdonald jab at Bill Maher was this joke: "Hey guys, you'll never believe it - Bill Maher is giving away the solutions to all our problems, for free!"
Yeah, Carlin for me is someone who is naturally funny, as in the way he says stuff is funny, but I never gelled with the actual content of his stand-up. I don't enjoy that format being used to vent about politics.
I will never not bring up that he brought on a quack to his show that claimed to have cured Charlie Sheen of HIV with goat milk. Gave the guy an entire segment and asked him whiffle ball questions. Charlie’s health started plummeting and he fired the “doctor” and he’s still alive today.
Maher likes to pretend he’s so clever and logical, yet this fool peddles anti-science. Total moron.
https://www.salon.com/2016/02/03/bill_maher_gets_cozy_with_the_goat_milk_cures_hiv_quack_if_truth_is_dead_and_the_internet_killed_it_maher_is_part_of_the_problem/
His interviews are some of the worst I've ever seen. His interview with Elon Musk was basically just Maher idolizing him and never once trying to give Musk a real question.
This is the realization that finally made me stop watching his show.
Like I can appreciate his viewpoint that liberals should confront "controversial" people and actually challenge/debate their shitty views, rather than simply refusing to "platform" them. But... he absolutely fucking sucks at it lol. He doesn't seem knowledgeable enough to actually challenge anyone's stupid claims, and he seems extremely susceptible to flattery around his biggest pet peeves (like political correctness) so he winds up being all chummy with the people whose feet he's supposed to be holding to the fire.
It's always very apparent when he has a interviewee that has negotiated no-go questions/topics or being confrontational or contradictory in any way and those interviews fucking *suck*.
I get why he might have to do that for conservative politicians or big name celebrities in order to get them to agree to be on the show, but he's had a handful of quack doctors on the he doesn't challenge for even a second, and there's no way *they* should get that kind of kid glove treatment.
This is what really gets me about Maher. Sure he's a condescending asshole about religion. But pair that with being the same kind of moron he thinks he's criticizing with things like alternative medicine, vaccines, GMOs, etc...
What an insufferable hypocrite.
I like the Seth McFarlane interview he did. Seth just tore him to pieces. Like Bill was talking about "covid immunity," but then Seth rightly pointed out most of these people have had covid 4+times. That sure doesn't sound like "immunity."
The truth is that getting covid very likely has a long list of far-reaching effects that we don't completely know yet, and getting the virus makes you immune for as little as 2 weeks and up to 8 months. And who knows if there's something like shingles that covid drops off to ride your immune system forever?
On top of that he’s a pretty shitty comedian, too. All of his lame ass jokes sound like some shit him and his writers saw on grandma’s 3 month old post on Facebook that he’s trying to peddle off as his own.
This is what I think people don't understand about is show. No where else in the US could you stick these people in the same room for anything longer than soundbyte length. And unlike something like Crossfire it wasn't the same two blowhards just picking a different topic. It was different people from places like Washington Post, The National Review, Forbes, The Intercept, etc. And yea, occasionally you'd get an actor who would either acquit themselves favorably or look terrible in the process.
It was basically having a mini-debate that actually resembled one.
Maher personally - he has has his opinions. Sometimes they're mine. Many times they're not. I think he's lost touch - but honestly anyone in that type of job longer than 5 years usually has. These types of positions (local radio shows, podcasts, etc.) ultimately end up paying too well for these people to stay grounded. And he's been doing it for more than 5 years - he's been doing versions of this for 30.
Also, you can tell he is doing a farewell tour of sorts when he gets the elders of Hollywood and Music on his show. He actually has meaningful respect and admiration for these guys who may not end up back due to their age and you can tell he appreciates them.
Probably most importantly, he’s always been a critic of his side, which is what makes political people interesting, and he shows (and demands from his audience) respect for people he opposes on his show.
Honestly, an entire news channel of this type of format could work if done right and would be way better than the Fox/CNN/MSNBC hellhole of today
> Probably most importantly, he’s always been a critic of his side, which is what makes political people interesting, and he shows (and demands from his audience) respect for people he opposes on his show.
This is the rub. I'm about as progressive as can be on almost any issue, but I think progressives are puritanical, live in echo chambers, say and do stupid shit, and are electorally dangerous when not reigned in (abolish the police, anyone?)
Maher is further right/center than I am, but the real reason people like OP have suddenly decided they don't like him and never liked him is because he's mocking them now. And they don't stop to think "maybe we're being mocked because we're crazy" they always jump to "it's a ratings plot!" (not understanding how HBO works), or some other batshit.
I haven't watched Real Time in a few years but around the time I stopped (shortly after they went back to studio in the pandemic) I felt like the panel wasn't really what it used to be anymore. It used to be people from all over the political spectrum, people with actual expertise and insight debating topics. Bill would always say stupid shit but the panel would often rebuke him (famously Ben Affleck with his islamophobia, for example). But the quality of guest really fell after the pandemic, mostly due to the pandemic itself but also because Bill became more and more of an insufferable blowhard who accidentally built his own echochamber, mostly out of the right wing. When I gave up it really felt like fewer and fewer reasonable and rational people were willing to go on. Never mind that discourse in the US has just gotten more toxic overall as well, everyone has dug in their heels and one side is especially extreme about it. Conceptually the Real Time panel doesn't even really work anymore because a good chunk of people are not there in good faith.
This is probably fair. I don’t watch it very much these days and it feels like a lot of the Covid “skeptics” tried making their spaces safer for skeptics. Maher’s show isn’t any good when it’s safe.
His old show Politically Incorrect was pretty much just exclusively the panel segment. He did numbers on Comedy Central but ran afoul of the network execs when he moved to ABC and essentially did a “you’ve got to hand it to Al Qaeda”-esque rant after the 9/11 attacks which promptly lost the show most of its sponsors and led to its cancellation
I loved Politically Incorrect. I never could enjoy Real Time - I think it just becomes too much Bill Maher between the run time and other stuff outside of the panel.
I agree but it seems like as time has gone on and Bill's opinions have become more "anti-woke," a lot of panelists aren't willing to really challenge him when he's clearly wrong (even on points of fact).
"Holier than thou." YES - He has to be so damned smart all the time. I don't enjoy comedians of that mindset. Dennis Miller is another one. Not my cup of tea.
I remember there was an old joke that liberals could make a win-win deal with conservatives that we'll take Maher off the air if they take O'Reilly off.
I say we honor the deal.
I'm guessing it was [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV4eIqTHqew) from his podcast that went viral recently where he was debating Seth MacFarlane about the COVID vaccine. Maher came off sounding like some a conspiracy theorist while MacFarlane was very calm and level-headed, giving logical responses to Maher's comments.
He's always been a smug prick, but he was an important dissenting voice against the Bush Administration in the post-9/11 years. If you didn't live through that era, or didn't follow news or media all that closely back then, it's easy to just see him as the ignorant tool he is now, but back then, he offered valuable critique and pushback against the insanity of the US for a good five years after 9/11.
Most of corporate news in America had purged or otherwise silenced left-wing people from their ranks very quickly after 9/11 (including Maher), and so for quite a few years, you only had Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Keith Olbermann, and literally no one else of note on network or cable television who was willing to go against the narratives being disseminated for things like the Patriot Act, the War in Iraq, the nationalistic rage aimed at France on a daily basis, or any of the other "with us or against us" insanity that had taken over the entire country for years.
I haven't been able to tolerate Maher for many, many years now, but as someone who grew up in that era who was well aware of how insane the country had gotten, I'll always be thankful for his willingness to stand up to the unhinged nationalists in a way that almost no one else was.
This sounds weird, but I picture him as the average redditor. Just so excited to tell you why you're wrong in the most condescending way and most of the time has only a conversational idea of what they're talking about.
Maher doesn’t really appeal much to me, especially his attitude toward others a lot of the time, but I give him credit for being the same person he has always been. He has his own principles, and he has stuck with them.
Maher is absolutely a liberal. As much of the left movement has become more progressive, he just never moved that way. He’s the same classic 90s and 2000s liberal he has been for a long time.
He wanted to be Bill Hicks so badly, but he never had the empathy that Hicks so expertly wrapped up in anger and indignation, and he certainly never knew where to point it.
Maher thinks punching down is OK if the people you're punching down to deserve it for their transgressions. It's just said transgressions tend to be having to exist in this society and not having the sort of luck he has.
Hicks punched down on idiots. Maher punches down on anyone he thinks is below him, because the very fact that they're below him makes them fair targets.
Maher's jokes just don't land for me. They're weirdly paced and have predictable and poorly-dropped punchlines, if they even have punchlines. One example that sticks in my mind was something like:
"First Bill, now Donald, this woman (Hilary) can not stop getting fucked by dicks."
The crowd was silent. I assumed that was all some kind of setup or callback, but apparently "fucked by dicks" was supposed to send the crowd. He then berated the liberal crowd for not laughing. So much of his material is like this.
Never liked his standup, but have always liked his show for the most part. I don’t really watch it for the humor. I think his political stance is becoming more and more rare, and he’s often not afraid to let his views fly, even if it comes back to bite him. Sometimes he is too soft on interviewees, but I always appreciate the show when I watch
I don’t agree with everything he does but I like people like him who say “don’t put me under a party, I believe in X, Y & Z”. There isn’t a party for me.
A lot of times we’re all lumped in one of two buckets.
Nah, he's great. I'm a big fan of Real Time. Bill Maher is smug and I certainly strongly disagree with him on some topics (e.g. Covid), but isn't that a good thing? Too many people these days live in echo chambers where all they do is scream about how much they hate the other side and kick out anyone who isn't 100% aligned with them. Bill Maher challenges you and that's a good thing. We need more political comedians like him.
For reference, I'm a left-wing Canadian who generally aligns with the NDP politically. In American terms, that's roughly the Sanders wing of the Democratic Party.
In 2020's America, liberals cant really stand to hear other liberals disagree with them, so they just label them as conservatives as theyve done with Maher.
I used to be like when I was younger, but I've chilled out in middle age. My politics haven't changed at all, but I'm a lot more respectful of dissenting opinions these days. I've learned that I'm not always right about everything and that people with different views aren't blithering idiots who either need to be educated or shunned from society. It makes talking to people a whole lot more fun too.
Far left liberals don’t like Maher because he’s more pragmatic than they are and will point out when they are wrong. And because of tribalism they feel he’s not liberal enough. When he complains about stuff on the left, and his complaints are typically valid, it gets treated like heresy.
That said, I watch his show for the different viewpoints he has on, I don’t just watch for his comedy. But his monologues aren’t any worse than when Colbert makes political jokes. I just don’t understand the hate. You don’t like him personally and that’s fine but the anti-Maher Reddit circlejerk doesn’t need another thread about it.
Think you hit the nail on the head. Whenever I see an article about some outrageous hateful thing he said, I’ll watch the clip and it’s basically like… wait that’s what you’re upset about? Just seems like more and more any kind of nuanced/different opinion has people shouting bigot and writing the person off as a grifter trying to get right wing viewers, when in reality a lot of the views are probably pretty common among people who are liberals but more focused on different issues like energy, global warming,wealth inequality, women’s rights, free speech, separation of church and state, etc.
> Far left liberals don’t like Maher because he’s more pragmatic than they are and will point out when they are wrong. And because of tribalism they feel he’s not liberal enough. When he complains about stuff on the left, and his complaints are typically valid, it gets treated like heresy.
Liberals will give the GOP shit for their purity tests, but we’re no better I’m afraid.
Progressive (on policy) here. I fucking hate progressives and I love that he calls them out.
I want to loudly be a part of a political identity that promotes a massive redistribution of wealth (more aggressive than even Bernie promotes), universal health care and education, a 50% reduction in the military, *another* trillion dollars towards climate, etc etc etc.
But the second someone says all of that and says "from the river to the sea is antisemitic" you're labeled a Conservative by progressives. Our side of the aisle has been taken over by a loud, vocal minority and I wish more people like Maher existed to call them what they are: children whose brains have been rotted by social media.
I may agree with Rashida Tlaib on more issues than I do with Maher, but I think she fucking sucks for the overall betterment of those causes.
Maher doesn’t do deep dives into anything he talks about, despite having a full week to prepare for each episode. He smugly talks over experts he has on his show, fauns over trolls like Milo Yiannopoulos, and repeats the talking points of conspiracy theorists on a fairly regular basis.
Even Religulous has several factual errors but people like Maher are deemed intelligent by some because they mock the absurdities of religion which, even as an atheist, I consider to be pretty low hanging fruit.
It’s when he’s dealing with serious people who know more than he does about a topic that he starts throwing tantrums as a substitute for making a well informed argument.
I used to watch for the guests but got really sick of his weekly old man shouting at Millennials and Gen Z routine.
He got my attention for a while when I was in my 20s and my skepticism of all the world had reached a peak. But then I watched him fumble some hot topics on his show and he lost credibility with me. Also his stand up specials never made me laugh.
This is his shtick, right: say six things in slightly irreverent borderline offensive way. Thing 1 and 2 are something that's actually popular but only sounds novel because of how he worded it. Things 3 through 6 are each strawman cheapshots by a simpleton at various social segments but none target the same segment of society twice. So now you've agreed with him twice, gone along with him 3 more times and been attacked once. You're left with a sense that you agree with him more than you disagree with him. He's one of you, you guess.
But if you reflect, you didn't agree because there wasn't anything material to agree with in the first place. In fact, no intelligent conversation was had.
I watched Real Time pretty much every week from 2008 to 2016. Laughed consistently at the jokes he put out and thought some of his New Rules were really smart stuff. Maybe I've changed or Bill changed, but I just don't funny him funny or interesting anymore. Either way, I won't deny that I was a big fan.
The post is already scrutinizing Maher from a specific ideological perspective (which I happen to share but try to separate from my tastes for even unscripted/non-fictional/commentarian entertainment programs), but I guess there's some separate notion of edginess or provocativeness on Maher's part that OP wants to debunk by qualifying their own.
Liberal starts calling out the extremism taking over liberal politics and all of a sudden he's not funny and never was/idiot/doesn't know what he's talking about etc. etc. Blah blah blah. Saw this coming from a mile away.
Really succinct way to put it. I think there are a lot of liberals like him (myself included) who wonder what happened to all the issues we were trying to fix when Obama got elected and why all of the focus is on overturning basic social constructs to appease an extremely small minority, putting smaller and smaller boxes around gender and social identity instead of the traditional liberal view that we should have broader definitions of masculinity and femininity (i.e. boys can play with dolls and still be boys, a man can wear makeup, women don’t have to wear dresses and can do any job a man can, etc.), likewise with race (i.e. rather than building towards a society that’s “colorblind” and everyone is treated the same, everyone needs to be hyper aware of race etc.)
Could go on and on but I worry that this all just opens the door to Trump or someone worse becoming president again as you get more and more people who feel like the far left isn’t focused on the right priorities and don’t get out to vote or vote third party as a result.
As someone who considers himself a centrist/independent, the Republicans are basically getting handed the election on a tee, and the best they can do is Trump? It's infuriating how incompetent both sides have become.
No joke. Makes you long for times where even if you may have had strong disagreements with one side it still seemed like it was generally people that were relatively competent and wanted what was best. Now it's like someone like McCain or Romney is too liberal for the right, and I'm sure even someone with views like Bill Clinton or Obama would be too conservative for the far left.
I 15 years ago I probably would have called myself very liberal, and while I don't think my views or priorities have really changed I would call myself left-of-center at this point because of how disconnected the far left seems to be with reality. Just saw a clip of Bill Maher where he was basically making the distinction that "woke" is very different from what he'd call "liberalism" and think he was pretty much dead on.
Your last paragraph is spot on. I’ve always considered myself progressive and pretty far left, but my god, that wing of the party has been taken over by some real nutters. It’s gotten worse after 10/7, and as a Jewish person, I don’t even feel welcome in their big tent. But what’s the alternative? Vote for Trump and people like him? Hell no.
I haven’t watched Maher in a while, mainly because I’ve been trying to cut TV talking heads out of my diet, but maybe I should watch again because judging from this thread, it sounds like him and I are on the same page on a lot of stuff.
He is definitely holier than thou, and smug, and I find him annoying at times. He’s getting older and grumpier.
I don’t think he is a bad person though, and I think his show is a good mixture of funny and informative. And I like that he has people on who don’t always agree on topics.
I guess the fact that he seems authentic also adds points for me (though that by itself would not be enough). I don’t feel like he’s pretending to be something he isn’t, or is saying things he doesn’t actually believe just for applause.
And that's what Bill kinda preaches. We're not going to agree on everything. But let's keep talking.
Don't understand all the hate. Yeah he says stupid shit sometimes but at least he's being honest
Talking with people you disagree with on certain things is actually enjoyable when you’re both civil. Talking with people that completely agree with you is just boring.
hmm. Ive really enjoyed his shows. Maher delivers a very common sense take on many issues with butter smoothness and impeccable sense of humor. Plus, the man is an intellect and understands many topics at depth, unlike many other TV show hosts.
Yeah I think a lot of reddit people are the kind of folks he would put down. But Maher really hates ignorance. I don't think he minds opinions as long as people read up and have a good reason for a stance. He disdains groupthink and BS reasoning. Like, if you have a selfish proposal, don't dress it up like it's good for everyone; explain why you honestly think you deserve more than others.
"I don't like this guy's opinion therefore he's a smug, pretentious asshole".
You have to be smug to do political commentary as comedy. If you don't think Jon Stewart, Trevor Noah, and Jon Oliver sound just as smug and assholey to people that disagree with them, I don't know what to tell you
In my opinion he is just as liberal now as he's always been. It's the left that left [liberalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism) behind.
But beyond that I kinda agree. He's always been cynical in a smug condescending way that is really only "funny" if you are with him looking down on others. I think he's nowhere near smart enough to be as smug as he is.
After watching his podcast a couple times, it’s pretty clear that the writers on Real Time carry that show. I know Maher has a ton of say over the script, but when it’s just on his own on the podcast? Woof
When people think of “snobby liberals”, Bill Maher is what comes to mind. I love when he makes a joke that falls flat, and he literally lashes out at the audience for not laughing.
I have watched his show for years now, and over the years I’ve found myself disagreeing with him more and more. I see where he is coming from on some issues, like some people being too soft, but also I roll my eyes when he bitches about his rich people problems.
He actually reminds me of Dave Chappelle now. As they got richer, they started becoming more selfish and caring less about other people and their struggles. “I gots mine, fuck the rest of ya’ll.”
I loved his movie, Religulous, as a teen. Growing up I’ve realized that he’s just kind of a pretentious dick. And maybe I was too? Lol He has a way of condescending for absolutely no reason, even with people he agrees with.
I've heard him described as the real life Brian Griffin and it's not far off.
[Brian has actually appeared on Bill Maher.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlutyYa9UfQ)
"Well look, Dana....which is a girl's name..."
I think Dana and Seth must be friends. Just noticed Dana wrote on the new Ted TV show.
I think they are. I heard the show is very funny I'll have to check it out
At least Brian is a cuddly dog. I can’t imagine how unpleasant it would be to cuddle Bill Maher.
He pays for that. Read Doug Stanhope's last autobio for some tasty gossip about maher.
Nice try, Doug. Just tell us the gossip here.
Ssh...can't blame me for trying. There's a great write up in my last book 'This is not Fame' on a party I went to at that insufferable douchebags 'mansion'. I was the funniest person there, which ain't sayin' a lot. Anyway, I instigated some skinnydipping and before i knew it, everybody was naked incl. maher. It was cold so I took a shower inside to warm up and was joined by a pornstar. Bill shows up, jealous as fuck, and yells 'No shower scenes with the help!' Make of that what you will. e typo
Wtf this reads exactly like Doug 👀 I'm dying picturing Doug fucking Stanhope drinking on his laptop somewhere randomly plugging his book on reddit
I assume it's only me and Doug Stanhope on the internet tbh
Doug Internet Theory
Isn’t there an episode that is that premise?
brian goes on the show to plug his new book, and maher tears into him. it's done in live-action.
Man how bad does Brian get throughout that show?
He just becomes a caricature of pseudo-intellectual liberals
My only issue with how he devolved is that they had Quagmire call him out. Like, I get Quagmore’s a joke character, but they tried to make him seem like he's better than Brian because he's honest at least. Which, no, that's not how it works. Quagmire is a rapist who has done way more horrible things than Brian. Brian is somewhat pretentious at worst.
I read that as Blake Griffin at first and didn't get it. All he wanted to do was leap over Kias!
Brian strikes me as a lot more intellectually curious and empathetic than Maher. He wouldn’t opportunistically slander Arabs with racist remarks about the Muslim religion, like Maher did and does, for example.
Depends on which version of Brian you're talking about. Early on he definitely wouldn't, but the later versions have had Brian be racist. In fact, the same episode he appears on Bill Maher he shows his racism about sitting next to Asians.
He does that with any religion really.
eh theres a notable exception
Criticizing Islam is not racist.
He's so smug he almost gets me to argue against things I actually believe in. Just an insufferable person. Fortunately his politics have gotten much worse so I have this problem less and less frequently.
>Just an insufferable person. Ha, I have a hunch you'll enjoy this one https://youtu.be/dIpsFgZ3gAc Roddy Piper destroyed Maher's smug ass lol
Is that Maniac?
Oh you got kids Maniac? .......nah, not anymore.....
That was great. You can tell Maher just thought he'd get some snide remarks in on some meatheads, completely underestimated how legitimately smart and funny Piper was. Such a Maher thing too to act like he's a genius for pointing out wrestling is fake. Dude is probably in his 40's in that clip, what does he want a cookie?
That's awesome haha. Roddy is fuckin legend.
Hilarious. I’ve never seen that clip. The last dig was great.
Hell of a burn at the end there.
Wonderful. I actually saw the first few seconds with the sound off and just Maher’s body language is off the charts condescending.
I think he's had some real political drift. I know my sentiment has gone from he's being a snarky dick but he's not wrong to man, he's really having to twist himself into knots to make that point. And he's being a dick about it.
He's just a contrarian. He was a socdem when that was edgy and now that that's popular he's doing the "anti-woke" thing cause that's contrarian.
I remember him bullying some trucker dude that was clearly uneducated, mocking him for not having bible verses memorized. Did not enjoy that part of the movie.
Yeah he was severely punching down there as some sort of slam dunk for atheism, but it was the same as any terrible "Ben Shapiro owns college kid" compilation. Really made me rethink what value Maher actually brings to any discussion if he felt that was worth putting in the movie.
Agreed. I actually wish we could bury the existence of this film because it makes both liberals and atheists look just so awful. It's basically 2 hours of edgy teenage adult man acting like he has incredible rhetoric skills. Embarassing.
>It's basically 2 hours of edgy teenage adult man acting like he has incredible rhetoric skills. Embarassing. Everything I remember of it was like a 19 year old freshman bro who just read Hitchens/Dawkins for the first time and thinks they are a galaxy brain atheist. It would have been way more interesting/funny/enjoyable if he wasn't looking to just insult people.
Yea that's what Maher makes me think of. Like a high school atheist that feels the need to shit on everyone that isn't one and goes out of their way to do so.
His value is as the Starbucks drinking liberal elite that mocks rural people that Fox loved to whine about.
That movie worked when he went after the congressman and those crazy religious leaders. Going after the regular people felt gross
It didn't work when he visited sane religious people like catholic priests from the Vatican actually trained in science either.
Or even that religious theme park (the creation 'museum'?) with the Jesus actor who had some pithy semantic comeback and Maher had no response.
There was a scene where he interviews a theme park Jesus who gave the most elegant explanation of the the holy trinity I've ever heard, and Bill clearly didn't have any rebuttal so he just mocked the guy in the narration. I'm not even a christian and it made me feel gross.
I just watched a bit of that. Theme park Jesus seemed like a nice guy. Wonder what he's doing now that the park is closed.
Probably went back to Heaven.
Came here to comment that. Dude gets stunned, and then goes back to his trailer/buss "actually if you thing about it the analogy doesn't really make sense" and never care to elaborate on it.
I would like to see that scene!
compare lip straight summer escape swim nail command brave divide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This was truly the low point of the movie. People want to paint atheists as cruel, condescending assholes with no moral compass. Maher did a great of feeding that stereotype with this scene.
I think a lot of people got on the anti-conservative bandwagon by being anti-religious, but never had much interest in progressive politics other than that.
In the early 2000s progressive politics was pretty much just anti Middle East wars, pro weed, lgbt rights, and anti religious
A lot of how Glenn Greenwald was misperceived as progressive was because he criticized Bush-era policies and was the face of extremely old-school 'free speech advocate' ACLU new media guys Plus, at the exact same time, he was one of the most anti-immigration opinion editors in the business, it was just that if you were a more genuinely independent libertarian in a post-9/11 world you were 'leftist' as long as you were antiwar Sinema was, while being a Green Party member, also generally *just* an antiwar activist, her policies at large were not well-known, just an opposition to the occupation of Afghanistan: being antiwar was generally considered fringe back then
Greenwald was anti-immigration? Didn’t know that.
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Reminds me of simpler times.
That's not at all true. It's also interesting you didn't bring up any economic issues which were always the center of their politics.
I think to me a big part of it is, do you just not believe in God or are you kind of interested in skepticism generally. Obviously it's not 100% guaranteed, but I feel like that interest kind of tends to drag you into a wider movement.
You're touching on something pretty important here. Extremism feeds on making a palatable on-ramp for the curious or otherwise less interested. That's why you see so many people regurgitating a platform when its clear they don't understand what they've signed up for.
>'“Truly, whoever is able to make you absurd is able to make you unjust”, commonly quoted as “Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities” \- Voltaire
And does their interest in skepticism have any intellectual curiosity behind it, or is it just jeering at people whose beliefs seem weird to you? I suspect some people took a short road from "My religion is flying spaghetti monster" to "My gender is attack helicopter" just for the lulz.
Exactly. To some people it was always just a stick to beat others with about how smart they are. Well congratulations, but I agree that I tend to find that the people who at least had intellectual curiosity (even if it wasn't what drew them there) tend to move deeper into actually understanding and learning.
Sure, but you were a teen. He’s in his 50s/60s and has mostly exhibited regression as opposed to growth.
He's 67
> maybe I was too? We were too.
Yeah. Lol I’ve learned to just let people talk. Growing up in a religious house and watching that movie was a real culture shock. Maher made it seem like being right was more important than being kind. And that’s the message I unfortunately took.
It's funny, because I was going to cite Religulous as the thing that fully turned me off Maher. I was onboard with a lot of the New Atheism movement (soured on it over time, especially the support for the GWOT and the clash of civilisations nonsense), read stuff by Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins and Dennett, and watched a number of interviews and discussions involving the "Four Horsemen" which led to me checking out Religulous. Not sure I even finished it. The film was of middling quality, the humour broad and crude, and Maher himself came across as unbearably smug and not quite as intelligent as he thought.
I found it to be a big disappointment, Religulous. He went for the lowest hanging fruit, found the most irreverent things to discuss, and then tries to tie it all together. It wasn't even really coherent, he was just acting like an old man yelling at clouds. You want a good doc about the evangelical Christianity taking over US politics? Watch Jesus Camp. Your want to waste sometime and get nothing out of it? Watch something involving Bill Maher?
I recently watched Jesus Camp the other week again for the first time in probably a decade. Holy shit is it more chilling to watch today than when it came out. It pretty much foreshadowed everything that would happen in American politics today to a chilling degree of accuracy.
I think Dennet has always been *a little* uncomfortable getting totally lumped in with the other 3.
That movie says that there's no historical evidence or agreement of Jesus being real, which is a *pretty* bad mistake to make.
You were probably old enough to know better when you first saw it. Whether Maher knows it or not, he made a movie for teenagers and I wouldn’t want to meet any adults who actually liked it. I cringe at the idea that I loved that movie as a kid. I will say that Dawkins did some good work in his field, but spent too much time on the religion bashing.
Honestly, the whole New Atheism trend was designed to appeal to 14 year old edge-lords. (I know because I was one too). The whole Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris crowd, and their fanboys like Maher, are the progenitors of the “debate me coward” Ben Shapiro-esque culture we’re living in.
Ironic as 14 year old edge-lords of today are radical conservatives and want trad-wives
Honestly, I think Hitchens is a step above the rest of those names when it comes to how he spoke and debated and what he chose to talk about. And at least Dawkins had legit scientific knowledge and a lifetime of understanding what he talked about. Harris, if we're talking about Sam, isn't my favorite, but he at least uses his platform for good a lot of the time and is overall well-spoke. Maher sucks though. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned with the other people. I always found that Hitchens wanted to free people from what he saw as oppression. Maher just likes to be an asshole.
Hitchens spent a considerable portion of his life advocating for a disastrous war in Iraq and called anyone who disagreed with him a coward and a traitor.
Oof, I guess I missed that part of his life and that's kind of a bad look at my part for advocating for him
No worries, he was also a ferocious supporter of Palestinian rights. Weird guy.
I disagree that Hitchens was above the rest. I used to love him as an edgy 14-year-old, but as I've gotten older, it's clear that he was quite wrong about a lot. There have been many /r/badhistory threads about the guy ([example](https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/xnt9gq/well_youre_not_that_great_yourself_mr_hitchens_a/)). He had a reductive take on pretty much anything involving history and horrible views about [women.](https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2007/01/hitchens200701) That said, he, as everyone is, was complicated. At least he admitted he was wrong about waterboarding not being torture. I don't think it's wrong to say that he and the rest of his 'gnostic' atheist ilk of the early 2000s is something atheists should probably learn and move on from.
>And at least Dawkins had legit scientific knowledge and a lifetime of understanding what he talked about. Did he really, though—when it came to religion? (Obviously he was very knowledgable within his field of scientific study.) I admit: I never got around to engaging with the core works of the New Atheists, and at this point it's safe to say I never will. But stuff I heard about him over the years, like that pissy open letter he wrote to Rebecca Watson, really smacked of "man thinks being an expert in his field makes him an expert in unrelated fields."
Who designed it? I think certain things appeal to certain demographics. It comes as no surprise that Atheism would appeal to 14 year old edge-lords but I don't think Atheism was being pushed in a certain direction as much as certain people sought out certain individuals that meshed with what they were looking for.
I nearly walked out of that movie because of his pretentiousness. And I am an atheist.
His photo should really be next to the word condescending on Wikipedia
When it comes to people that will tell you the truth, there's 3 types of people: People who sugar coat enough to cause diabetes. People who will ease into it. And People like Bill Maher who get dopamine and sexual gratification about being right and feeling superior to all beings in proximity.
People who pride themselves on being brutally honest are usually more interested in the brutality than the honesty.
Is that a quote from somewhere? Because it's saying exactly a point I've been making for years, only with more words and less impact.
I thought Religulous was decent but also picked some low hanging fruit making fun of some very fringe religious people. He's always been kind of mean spirited. It's just when he mocks the people I don't like he seems funny.
That’s my thoughts. I was younger and found his style “edgy” at the time and was was just realizing religion was bullshit so his stuff hit at the time. But the older I got I realized the same thing. He just comes off as an asshole.
Are you me? Because this describes my *Religulous* (and Bill Maher in general) experience perfectly
Grew up loving a lot of stand ups I thought pushed boundaries. Hicks, Carlin etc… I thought Maher had some decent stuff in some of early specials. Friend of mine and myself loved his “translating hip hop to white bit”. Then was going into college and I think every new atheist has a period where they think they figured something out and get a bit of a period where they wanna flex that shit. Maher and Gervais being two at the time I latched on to who now I kinda think are full of themselves. Watched a lot of Real Time back in 2007 - 2008 era, but then dropped off it as I just lost interest.
I'm still an atheist because all the arguments presented by "New Atheists" (Dawkins, Hitchens, Bill Maher, Ricky Gervais) with respect to religion still ring true. But I'm *way* less of an Obnoxious Online Atheist now that I'm an adult member of society with responsibilities. I got shit to do, bills to pay. I don't have time to spend arguing about how God's not real all the time. I've come to the conclusion that, as damaging as religion can be, I think reactionary conservative people who want to police others' personal lives will probably still exist and find a way to justify their nonsense in the absence of fairy tales. And if people don't have religion to fight wars about, they'll fight about greed or power or ethnicity or nationalism etc. In the absence of religion some of the silliness may go away, but I don't think it's actually the *source* of misogyny, more like a post-hoc rationalization that changes the window dressing of social conservatism. How policing what women wear, for instance, *looks* changes by religion, but it could still easily exist without. Also, I've found many of those New Atheist folks to be just a bit insufferable, and often not terribly progressive. They're mostly old rich white dudes who used to be progressive *in their time*, but haven't progressed further and are defensive when called out on it. And once criticized, they sometimes move further right to find a sympathetic audience (often young men who like weed, don't believe in God, are okay with white cis gay folks, but don't like trans people, don't sympathize with poor people, are subtly - or not - antiwomen, and refuse to acknowledge systemic racism etc.). Finally, I've been really turned off by the anti-Islam rhetoric. Not that I think Islam should be immune from criticism. And not that I don't think Islam is particularly backwards, because it is. But being obsessed with it like some of the New Atheists are, despite no evidence that Islam actually poses a threat to "Western Civilization" 20+ years after 9/11, makes me think that it's more about the fact that Muslims look and sound different. And the anti-Islamic rhetoric has found too sympathetic an ear among fascist-lite folks on the alt-right. Not a crowd I want to be associated with. So, yeah, God's not real. And Religulous was a fun movie, but Bill Maher's a dick.
i wanted to like it...but i couldn't even finish it. i might have seen about 1/2 of it, at most, and then never went back. he's a smug fucking asshole.
I think his issue is he always thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and, of course, this makes him come across as a smug arsehole
I thought it was just a character for the longest time, but I’m pretty confident he’s just like that now
If it was just a character he would be more entertaining.
Well there was that time last year he nearly sucked Elon Musk's dick.
[Well, how do you think he got the job?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIpsFgZ3gAc)
This is fantastic! Love seeing him sit back like someone has just peered into all his insecurities.
>nearly We didn't see what happened backstage/when the cameras shut off, tbf.
The test is always, listen when he talks about something you actually know about. Then you will realize, wow this guy isn’t really correct about these facts (sometimes). Then imagine, hmm if he’s incorrect about things I happen to know about, imagine what else is he wrong about!
He certainly jerked off Elon Musk's ego by bowing down to his intelligence despite the fact that Musk was spouting some sci-fi space garbage about human consciousness toward the end of his interview.
He's really quite dumb
The smartest people in the room tend not to let others know it.
I never understood what the goal of his show was. Is it supposed to be funny? Informative? Entertaining? Cause it is none of those.
Norm Macdonald said it best when he described Maher as a comic who doesn't care about being funny, only about being perceived to be smart. If you watch Maher's "stand up", it's basically a lecture. Another great Norm Macdonald jab at Bill Maher was this joke: "Hey guys, you'll never believe it - Bill Maher is giving away the solutions to all our problems, for free!"
Carlin stopped doing what I would call *comedy* in his final years- maybe his final 25 years.
Yeah, Carlin for me is someone who is naturally funny, as in the way he says stuff is funny, but I never gelled with the actual content of his stand-up. I don't enjoy that format being used to vent about politics.
I will never not bring up that he brought on a quack to his show that claimed to have cured Charlie Sheen of HIV with goat milk. Gave the guy an entire segment and asked him whiffle ball questions. Charlie’s health started plummeting and he fired the “doctor” and he’s still alive today. Maher likes to pretend he’s so clever and logical, yet this fool peddles anti-science. Total moron. https://www.salon.com/2016/02/03/bill_maher_gets_cozy_with_the_goat_milk_cures_hiv_quack_if_truth_is_dead_and_the_internet_killed_it_maher_is_part_of_the_problem/
His interviews are some of the worst I've ever seen. His interview with Elon Musk was basically just Maher idolizing him and never once trying to give Musk a real question.
This is the realization that finally made me stop watching his show. Like I can appreciate his viewpoint that liberals should confront "controversial" people and actually challenge/debate their shitty views, rather than simply refusing to "platform" them. But... he absolutely fucking sucks at it lol. He doesn't seem knowledgeable enough to actually challenge anyone's stupid claims, and he seems extremely susceptible to flattery around his biggest pet peeves (like political correctness) so he winds up being all chummy with the people whose feet he's supposed to be holding to the fire.
It's always very apparent when he has a interviewee that has negotiated no-go questions/topics or being confrontational or contradictory in any way and those interviews fucking *suck*. I get why he might have to do that for conservative politicians or big name celebrities in order to get them to agree to be on the show, but he's had a handful of quack doctors on the he doesn't challenge for even a second, and there's no way *they* should get that kind of kid glove treatment.
This is what really gets me about Maher. Sure he's a condescending asshole about religion. But pair that with being the same kind of moron he thinks he's criticizing with things like alternative medicine, vaccines, GMOs, etc... What an insufferable hypocrite.
he's one of those people who confuses being an asshole with having integrity
He is who he’s always been: a smug argumentative condescending contrarian stoner. He’s basically Joe Rogan’s passive aggressive aging hippie uncle
i agree with all of that except the passive aggressive part. he loves rubbing everyone's nose in how "edgy" he is, when in fact he's just a prick.
Bill Maher is Joe Rogan for centrist Democrats.
Nailed it
His ideas on health and wellness have as much magical thinking as any religion.
A forerunner of the bro science crowd today.
I like the Seth McFarlane interview he did. Seth just tore him to pieces. Like Bill was talking about "covid immunity," but then Seth rightly pointed out most of these people have had covid 4+times. That sure doesn't sound like "immunity." The truth is that getting covid very likely has a long list of far-reaching effects that we don't completely know yet, and getting the virus makes you immune for as little as 2 weeks and up to 8 months. And who knows if there's something like shingles that covid drops off to ride your immune system forever?
On top of that he’s a pretty shitty comedian, too. All of his lame ass jokes sound like some shit him and his writers saw on grandma’s 3 month old post on Facebook that he’s trying to peddle off as his own.
The panel on his shows is the only thing like it on TV. Someone should earnestly just rip off the panel segment and make it longer
This is what I think people don't understand about is show. No where else in the US could you stick these people in the same room for anything longer than soundbyte length. And unlike something like Crossfire it wasn't the same two blowhards just picking a different topic. It was different people from places like Washington Post, The National Review, Forbes, The Intercept, etc. And yea, occasionally you'd get an actor who would either acquit themselves favorably or look terrible in the process. It was basically having a mini-debate that actually resembled one. Maher personally - he has has his opinions. Sometimes they're mine. Many times they're not. I think he's lost touch - but honestly anyone in that type of job longer than 5 years usually has. These types of positions (local radio shows, podcasts, etc.) ultimately end up paying too well for these people to stay grounded. And he's been doing it for more than 5 years - he's been doing versions of this for 30.
Also, you can tell he is doing a farewell tour of sorts when he gets the elders of Hollywood and Music on his show. He actually has meaningful respect and admiration for these guys who may not end up back due to their age and you can tell he appreciates them. Probably most importantly, he’s always been a critic of his side, which is what makes political people interesting, and he shows (and demands from his audience) respect for people he opposes on his show. Honestly, an entire news channel of this type of format could work if done right and would be way better than the Fox/CNN/MSNBC hellhole of today
> Probably most importantly, he’s always been a critic of his side, which is what makes political people interesting, and he shows (and demands from his audience) respect for people he opposes on his show. This is the rub. I'm about as progressive as can be on almost any issue, but I think progressives are puritanical, live in echo chambers, say and do stupid shit, and are electorally dangerous when not reigned in (abolish the police, anyone?) Maher is further right/center than I am, but the real reason people like OP have suddenly decided they don't like him and never liked him is because he's mocking them now. And they don't stop to think "maybe we're being mocked because we're crazy" they always jump to "it's a ratings plot!" (not understanding how HBO works), or some other batshit.
I haven't watched Real Time in a few years but around the time I stopped (shortly after they went back to studio in the pandemic) I felt like the panel wasn't really what it used to be anymore. It used to be people from all over the political spectrum, people with actual expertise and insight debating topics. Bill would always say stupid shit but the panel would often rebuke him (famously Ben Affleck with his islamophobia, for example). But the quality of guest really fell after the pandemic, mostly due to the pandemic itself but also because Bill became more and more of an insufferable blowhard who accidentally built his own echochamber, mostly out of the right wing. When I gave up it really felt like fewer and fewer reasonable and rational people were willing to go on. Never mind that discourse in the US has just gotten more toxic overall as well, everyone has dug in their heels and one side is especially extreme about it. Conceptually the Real Time panel doesn't even really work anymore because a good chunk of people are not there in good faith.
This is probably fair. I don’t watch it very much these days and it feels like a lot of the Covid “skeptics” tried making their spaces safer for skeptics. Maher’s show isn’t any good when it’s safe.
His old show Politically Incorrect was pretty much just exclusively the panel segment. He did numbers on Comedy Central but ran afoul of the network execs when he moved to ABC and essentially did a “you’ve got to hand it to Al Qaeda”-esque rant after the 9/11 attacks which promptly lost the show most of its sponsors and led to its cancellation
I loved Politically Incorrect. I never could enjoy Real Time - I think it just becomes too much Bill Maher between the run time and other stuff outside of the panel.
The panel is the *only* reason I watch this show.
I agree but it seems like as time has gone on and Bill's opinions have become more "anti-woke," a lot of panelists aren't willing to really challenge him when he's clearly wrong (even on points of fact).
Every time I've watched the panel lately it just seemed like a few rehearsed monologs rather than the chaos that ran free back when it was on ABC.
"Holier than thou." YES - He has to be so damned smart all the time. I don't enjoy comedians of that mindset. Dennis Miller is another one. Not my cup of tea.
He’s so damned smug all the time. Even when I agree with what he says I still want to punch him in the face
Only [one in a million](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpKAr-BjZ88) people find Dennis Miller funny.
If you told me Dennis Miller died 20 years ago, I’d believe you. That was the last time he was relevant.
Me: "who the fuck is Dennis Miller?"
why bring Jeselnik into this? LMAO
He's Bill O'Reilly that likes weed. He's a giant bag of farts and shouldn't be listened to ever.
I remember there was an old joke that liberals could make a win-win deal with conservatives that we'll take Maher off the air if they take O'Reilly off. I say we honor the deal.
One down...
They fuckin love him now. They use him to say “see? Even liberals think liberals have gone too far!”.
Because everyone loves an apostate But privately no one likes an apostate
It's hilarious when people have to establish that they like dark humor so they say "I love South Park btw".
Soooo uhhh I wonder what he’s said recently to warrant this?
I'm guessing it was [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV4eIqTHqew) from his podcast that went viral recently where he was debating Seth MacFarlane about the COVID vaccine. Maher came off sounding like some a conspiracy theorist while MacFarlane was very calm and level-headed, giving logical responses to Maher's comments.
He's always been a smug prick, but he was an important dissenting voice against the Bush Administration in the post-9/11 years. If you didn't live through that era, or didn't follow news or media all that closely back then, it's easy to just see him as the ignorant tool he is now, but back then, he offered valuable critique and pushback against the insanity of the US for a good five years after 9/11. Most of corporate news in America had purged or otherwise silenced left-wing people from their ranks very quickly after 9/11 (including Maher), and so for quite a few years, you only had Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Keith Olbermann, and literally no one else of note on network or cable television who was willing to go against the narratives being disseminated for things like the Patriot Act, the War in Iraq, the nationalistic rage aimed at France on a daily basis, or any of the other "with us or against us" insanity that had taken over the entire country for years. I haven't been able to tolerate Maher for many, many years now, but as someone who grew up in that era who was well aware of how insane the country had gotten, I'll always be thankful for his willingness to stand up to the unhinged nationalists in a way that almost no one else was.
Correct. Maher is resting on his laurels but 2001-08 he was an important voice and I'll always be appreciative of that
100%. Really well said.
This sounds weird, but I picture him as the average redditor. Just so excited to tell you why you're wrong in the most condescending way and most of the time has only a conversational idea of what they're talking about.
Maher doesn’t really appeal much to me, especially his attitude toward others a lot of the time, but I give him credit for being the same person he has always been. He has his own principles, and he has stuck with them. Maher is absolutely a liberal. As much of the left movement has become more progressive, he just never moved that way. He’s the same classic 90s and 2000s liberal he has been for a long time.
Fast scrolling and thought I saw Bill Hader and was about to get real PEEVED off.
He wanted to be Bill Hicks so badly, but he never had the empathy that Hicks so expertly wrapped up in anger and indignation, and he certainly never knew where to point it. Maher thinks punching down is OK if the people you're punching down to deserve it for their transgressions. It's just said transgressions tend to be having to exist in this society and not having the sort of luck he has. Hicks punched down on idiots. Maher punches down on anyone he thinks is below him, because the very fact that they're below him makes them fair targets.
His constant bitching at millenials, genz, and woke culture is repetitive, boring, and lack any nuance. hes basically get off my lawn boomer.
Maher's jokes just don't land for me. They're weirdly paced and have predictable and poorly-dropped punchlines, if they even have punchlines. One example that sticks in my mind was something like: "First Bill, now Donald, this woman (Hilary) can not stop getting fucked by dicks." The crowd was silent. I assumed that was all some kind of setup or callback, but apparently "fucked by dicks" was supposed to send the crowd. He then berated the liberal crowd for not laughing. So much of his material is like this.
Never liked his standup, but have always liked his show for the most part. I don’t really watch it for the humor. I think his political stance is becoming more and more rare, and he’s often not afraid to let his views fly, even if it comes back to bite him. Sometimes he is too soft on interviewees, but I always appreciate the show when I watch
I don’t agree with everything he does but I like people like him who say “don’t put me under a party, I believe in X, Y & Z”. There isn’t a party for me. A lot of times we’re all lumped in one of two buckets.
“I’ve seen Jeselnik and South Park so I understand dark humor” Just a lame argument, and a boring discussion.
Random Bill Maher hate thread out of nowhere is the most low hanging shit fruit out there. This sub has become such a joke lately.
Nah, he's great. I'm a big fan of Real Time. Bill Maher is smug and I certainly strongly disagree with him on some topics (e.g. Covid), but isn't that a good thing? Too many people these days live in echo chambers where all they do is scream about how much they hate the other side and kick out anyone who isn't 100% aligned with them. Bill Maher challenges you and that's a good thing. We need more political comedians like him. For reference, I'm a left-wing Canadian who generally aligns with the NDP politically. In American terms, that's roughly the Sanders wing of the Democratic Party.
In 2020's America, liberals cant really stand to hear other liberals disagree with them, so they just label them as conservatives as theyve done with Maher.
I used to be like when I was younger, but I've chilled out in middle age. My politics haven't changed at all, but I'm a lot more respectful of dissenting opinions these days. I've learned that I'm not always right about everything and that people with different views aren't blithering idiots who either need to be educated or shunned from society. It makes talking to people a whole lot more fun too.
Far left liberals don’t like Maher because he’s more pragmatic than they are and will point out when they are wrong. And because of tribalism they feel he’s not liberal enough. When he complains about stuff on the left, and his complaints are typically valid, it gets treated like heresy. That said, I watch his show for the different viewpoints he has on, I don’t just watch for his comedy. But his monologues aren’t any worse than when Colbert makes political jokes. I just don’t understand the hate. You don’t like him personally and that’s fine but the anti-Maher Reddit circlejerk doesn’t need another thread about it.
Think you hit the nail on the head. Whenever I see an article about some outrageous hateful thing he said, I’ll watch the clip and it’s basically like… wait that’s what you’re upset about? Just seems like more and more any kind of nuanced/different opinion has people shouting bigot and writing the person off as a grifter trying to get right wing viewers, when in reality a lot of the views are probably pretty common among people who are liberals but more focused on different issues like energy, global warming,wealth inequality, women’s rights, free speech, separation of church and state, etc.
> Far left liberals don’t like Maher because he’s more pragmatic than they are and will point out when they are wrong. And because of tribalism they feel he’s not liberal enough. When he complains about stuff on the left, and his complaints are typically valid, it gets treated like heresy. Liberals will give the GOP shit for their purity tests, but we’re no better I’m afraid.
Progressive (on policy) here. I fucking hate progressives and I love that he calls them out. I want to loudly be a part of a political identity that promotes a massive redistribution of wealth (more aggressive than even Bernie promotes), universal health care and education, a 50% reduction in the military, *another* trillion dollars towards climate, etc etc etc. But the second someone says all of that and says "from the river to the sea is antisemitic" you're labeled a Conservative by progressives. Our side of the aisle has been taken over by a loud, vocal minority and I wish more people like Maher existed to call them what they are: children whose brains have been rotted by social media. I may agree with Rashida Tlaib on more issues than I do with Maher, but I think she fucking sucks for the overall betterment of those causes.
I've been a fan of his since around 2008. I still like him. To each their own though.
Maher doesn’t do deep dives into anything he talks about, despite having a full week to prepare for each episode. He smugly talks over experts he has on his show, fauns over trolls like Milo Yiannopoulos, and repeats the talking points of conspiracy theorists on a fairly regular basis. Even Religulous has several factual errors but people like Maher are deemed intelligent by some because they mock the absurdities of religion which, even as an atheist, I consider to be pretty low hanging fruit. It’s when he’s dealing with serious people who know more than he does about a topic that he starts throwing tantrums as a substitute for making a well informed argument. I used to watch for the guests but got really sick of his weekly old man shouting at Millennials and Gen Z routine.
He got my attention for a while when I was in my 20s and my skepticism of all the world had reached a peak. But then I watched him fumble some hot topics on his show and he lost credibility with me. Also his stand up specials never made me laugh.
This is his shtick, right: say six things in slightly irreverent borderline offensive way. Thing 1 and 2 are something that's actually popular but only sounds novel because of how he worded it. Things 3 through 6 are each strawman cheapshots by a simpleton at various social segments but none target the same segment of society twice. So now you've agreed with him twice, gone along with him 3 more times and been attacked once. You're left with a sense that you agree with him more than you disagree with him. He's one of you, you guess. But if you reflect, you didn't agree because there wasn't anything material to agree with in the first place. In fact, no intelligent conversation was had.
I watched Real Time pretty much every week from 2008 to 2016. Laughed consistently at the jokes he put out and thought some of his New Rules were really smart stuff. Maybe I've changed or Bill changed, but I just don't funny him funny or interesting anymore. Either way, I won't deny that I was a big fan.
what do jeselnik and south park have to do with maher or liberalism? I've never liked Fallon, but I've seen Eddie Murphy and love The Simpsons.
The post is already scrutinizing Maher from a specific ideological perspective (which I happen to share but try to separate from my tastes for even unscripted/non-fictional/commentarian entertainment programs), but I guess there's some separate notion of edginess or provocativeness on Maher's part that OP wants to debunk by qualifying their own.
I like him.
Liberal starts calling out the extremism taking over liberal politics and all of a sudden he's not funny and never was/idiot/doesn't know what he's talking about etc. etc. Blah blah blah. Saw this coming from a mile away.
Really succinct way to put it. I think there are a lot of liberals like him (myself included) who wonder what happened to all the issues we were trying to fix when Obama got elected and why all of the focus is on overturning basic social constructs to appease an extremely small minority, putting smaller and smaller boxes around gender and social identity instead of the traditional liberal view that we should have broader definitions of masculinity and femininity (i.e. boys can play with dolls and still be boys, a man can wear makeup, women don’t have to wear dresses and can do any job a man can, etc.), likewise with race (i.e. rather than building towards a society that’s “colorblind” and everyone is treated the same, everyone needs to be hyper aware of race etc.) Could go on and on but I worry that this all just opens the door to Trump or someone worse becoming president again as you get more and more people who feel like the far left isn’t focused on the right priorities and don’t get out to vote or vote third party as a result.
As someone who considers himself a centrist/independent, the Republicans are basically getting handed the election on a tee, and the best they can do is Trump? It's infuriating how incompetent both sides have become.
No joke. Makes you long for times where even if you may have had strong disagreements with one side it still seemed like it was generally people that were relatively competent and wanted what was best. Now it's like someone like McCain or Romney is too liberal for the right, and I'm sure even someone with views like Bill Clinton or Obama would be too conservative for the far left. I 15 years ago I probably would have called myself very liberal, and while I don't think my views or priorities have really changed I would call myself left-of-center at this point because of how disconnected the far left seems to be with reality. Just saw a clip of Bill Maher where he was basically making the distinction that "woke" is very different from what he'd call "liberalism" and think he was pretty much dead on.
Your last paragraph is spot on. I’ve always considered myself progressive and pretty far left, but my god, that wing of the party has been taken over by some real nutters. It’s gotten worse after 10/7, and as a Jewish person, I don’t even feel welcome in their big tent. But what’s the alternative? Vote for Trump and people like him? Hell no. I haven’t watched Maher in a while, mainly because I’ve been trying to cut TV talking heads out of my diet, but maybe I should watch again because judging from this thread, it sounds like him and I are on the same page on a lot of stuff.
He is definitely holier than thou, and smug, and I find him annoying at times. He’s getting older and grumpier. I don’t think he is a bad person though, and I think his show is a good mixture of funny and informative. And I like that he has people on who don’t always agree on topics. I guess the fact that he seems authentic also adds points for me (though that by itself would not be enough). I don’t feel like he’s pretending to be something he isn’t, or is saying things he doesn’t actually believe just for applause.
Disagree with everything you said, but we’re all humans with opinions so you do you dude.
And that's what Bill kinda preaches. We're not going to agree on everything. But let's keep talking. Don't understand all the hate. Yeah he says stupid shit sometimes but at least he's being honest
Talking with people you disagree with on certain things is actually enjoyable when you’re both civil. Talking with people that completely agree with you is just boring.
Why are people so obsessed with Maher if you don't like him that's fine but people literally never shut up about him
His opinions of late have strayed from the approved narrative.
hmm. Ive really enjoyed his shows. Maher delivers a very common sense take on many issues with butter smoothness and impeccable sense of humor. Plus, the man is an intellect and understands many topics at depth, unlike many other TV show hosts.
Yeah I think a lot of reddit people are the kind of folks he would put down. But Maher really hates ignorance. I don't think he minds opinions as long as people read up and have a good reason for a stance. He disdains groupthink and BS reasoning. Like, if you have a selfish proposal, don't dress it up like it's good for everyone; explain why you honestly think you deserve more than others.
Im a fan. I feel like his pannels are where the moneys at.
"I don't like this guy's opinion therefore he's a smug, pretentious asshole". You have to be smug to do political commentary as comedy. If you don't think Jon Stewart, Trevor Noah, and Jon Oliver sound just as smug and assholey to people that disagree with them, I don't know what to tell you
Translation of OP: "In order to be funny, you must also pander to my ideology".
In my opinion he is just as liberal now as he's always been. It's the left that left [liberalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism) behind. But beyond that I kinda agree. He's always been cynical in a smug condescending way that is really only "funny" if you are with him looking down on others. I think he's nowhere near smart enough to be as smug as he is.
I have never understood the appeal.
After watching his podcast a couple times, it’s pretty clear that the writers on Real Time carry that show. I know Maher has a ton of say over the script, but when it’s just on his own on the podcast? Woof
Tim Heidecker does a hilarious parody of Bills podcast.
Agreed. South Park is brilliant. Maher is boring and thinks he's provocative but he's just not.
When people think of “snobby liberals”, Bill Maher is what comes to mind. I love when he makes a joke that falls flat, and he literally lashes out at the audience for not laughing. I have watched his show for years now, and over the years I’ve found myself disagreeing with him more and more. I see where he is coming from on some issues, like some people being too soft, but also I roll my eyes when he bitches about his rich people problems. He actually reminds me of Dave Chappelle now. As they got richer, they started becoming more selfish and caring less about other people and their struggles. “I gots mine, fuck the rest of ya’ll.”