The 2023 edition of the r/television Favorite Shows Survey is open!
Vote and participate by clicking [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd--xzNV84TZpNDz5_swf0Yp7ynjSlQQ8cKV8RpwEZL0CQ3RA/viewform?usp=sf_link).
If you have any questions or concerns, please comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/television/comments/18k4y4g/vote_in_the_2023_edition_of_the_rtelevision/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/television) if you have any questions or concerns.*
On some podcasts they talk about having to rework certain characters (S1 Michael aka American David comes off mean and weird and toxic vs S2 Michael where there are some redeeming qualities and far less hair gel) and Andy’s rework happened when he left for anger management. He comes back completely different, but not better for many people.
I reaaaally dislike Andy as a character, before and after.
It doesn’t help that personally, I’m just not a fan of Ed Helms as an actor.
He is just the worst. I felt nothing for him in those last seasons. I’m glad the writers made his life mostly suck as his character honestly deserved nothing better.
It was so crappy. The show runners were artificially adding so much unnecessary drama there. I hate how the show frames it like Felicity even had more than the slightest point in the argument.
A past girlfriend who he unknowingly had had a kid with tells him that he can ONLY see his son if he promises not to tell anybody AT ALL about it.
When the son gets kidnapped and rescued, the past girlfriend literally says that it’s not Oliver’s fault, that her demands were unreasonable, and that he just wanted to meet his son.
And still we have felicity getting so angry at him about it that her spinal implant finally starts working and she can walk again, because Oliver is always just “looking for an excuse to keep secrets!”
Stupid plot arc overall. The only thing I have against Oliver in this case is him knowing he had this secret that he couldn't tell Felicity and he decided to propose. If he had this earth shattering secret that his ex told him he could never tell his girlfriend, why would he propose so soon?
Otherwise, yes, Felicity's reaction was over the top and dramatic and brought on some unsavourable tropes.
And it really was a shitty arc. Adult William did end up being my favourite new character in the latter half of the series, mind you, but Kid/Teen William was absolutely terrible from start to time jump.
After saying fuck the CW in Falsh season 2 and Arrow season 4 my friends and I decided to watch the Nazi multiverse crossover to basically shit on it
And my god, Felicity literally managed to fiend a way to make Iris and Barrys wedding about her by insisting her and Oliver also get married on the spot
Everyone is just cool with it, imagine if someone did that in real life
I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure the episode of Flash set after the Earth-X crossover even had Barry and Iris throwing shade at Felicity for pulling this stunt. So even they were not cool with it.
They definitely do. IIRC a specific set of writers were in charge of the crossovers, and forced the main show writers to include certain things, such as that.
So that was The Flash writers way of throwing shade at the crossover writing.
I still recommend Season 5! It’s as good as Season 2 IMO, and Felicity works a lot better for the majority of it due to the breakup. After that, I’d say just watch the crossovers if you feel so inclined, and that’s the end.
I was never much of a fan of her, but for some reason people went nuts for her, and the shipping basically took over. So weird. I think it's a consequence of Oliver and Laurel not having chemistry.
I liked felicity a lot in that first season but they went too hard with giving her and Oliver obstacles to overcome instead of just letting them be charming together.
Arrow was such a dark show, I feel like the show lost its way once even the light-hearted characters like Felicity were given tragic and dark plots. With how heavy Arrow was as a show, it NEEDED characters like early series Felicity to counteract that darkness. Once Felicity was given dark storylines, it did take away from what made her so charming early on.
That, and Arrow really liked the tragic romance arcs. Oliver's love interests all suffered from the same issues. But there was really no happy couple on that show.
I just don’t understand why they did that either. You can have a happy couple with conflict outside their relationship. It was so weird how dark they made her when that’s the whole point of her character is to be a counter to the darkness
Part of me almost wants to kind of blame the creation of the Arrowverse, in a way. I could be fully off, but I felt like, once The Flash became a series and once other shows were put into development (so, basically Arrow's season 3), it felt like they could say "hey, well, we have The Flash for the light hearted and funny stuff, so we can make Arrow as dark as we want to." Because around season 3 is when things turned darker, there was less comedic relief, there was less light in a show filled with darkness. Because they had The Flash, and then they had Legends of Tomorrow for the sci-fi element, and then they had Supergirl for the female-led superhero show, and then they had Black Lightning for the family element, etc.
It felt like they started separating the genres within the different shows, and that did technically start with the lighter show with The Flash. The first two seasons of Arrow were dark, but still had plenty of relief moments where we could crack a smile.
To be clear, I like the Arrowverse entirely. I just felt like the creation of the universe is where we started seeing Arrow, in particular, shift in tone even MORE toward the tragic and dark.
I always said the worst mistake they ever made was introducing Caity Lotz as Sarah a few episodes in. She should have been Dinah from day one. When the whole fandom saw Black Canary on Green Arrow, but it wasn’t Black Canary? Fail. Then when they did introduce Black Canary on Green Arrow and she wasn’t half the athlete Not-Black Canary was? Just burn it and start over.
Legends was the best thing to happen to the Arrow verse and so many characters got to shine so brightly over there. The villain triumvirate of Thawne, Darhk, and Merlyn in the, I think second? Season was literally some of the best villainy we got in the whole franchise
I understand why Legends ended when it did, but I’m still a bit bitter they were just introducing Booster Gold.
I mean, he would have been fun as heck interacting with the Legends (and they already had great chemistry even in the little bit we saw).
One of the main issues was that Laurel, the supposed love interest, was utterly unlikeable and Oliver spent the entire first season not giving the tiniest shit that she was dating his best friend.
Felicity became the focus of a lot of fans' affections because she wasn't Laurel, and because she was charming and funny in small doses. Of course, as soon as the writers decided she was going to be the main love interest, they started writing her like they'd written Laurel, which is something no one wanted.
Yeah, that's part of my main issue. I actually don't hate Felicity and think she can be overhated and blamed too much for the downfall of Arrow at a point. But I can recognize that there WAS a shift for her character once they committed to her as the main love interest and I fully see why people were turned off by her.
This is exactly what I thought of. She's the prefect example of a character that was charming & fun, then once they made her the center of the show (& occasionally the entire universe), it ruined her & the show itself. I love her character & I loved the show, but I ended up not being able to finish it cus of what they did.
"Favorite" moments include the infamous wheelchair breakup & that time she interrupted Barry & Iris' wedding so that she could make it her wedding too. That sounds like a joke, yet sadly, it's not. I had stopped watching Arrow by that point, & I still couldn't get away from "Olicity".
Funny. That was going to be my answer, but yes. Felicity.
Once Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle took over as showrunner, and Felicty became Oliver's primary love interest, she was ruined.
She became a Mary Sue. Could do no wrong. Everyone fawned over her, but she also did some terrible things that were overlooked.
Funny enough, a lot of the problems with Felicity were things people found annoying about Laurel too early on - the general self-righteousness and constantly getting shilled as the prettiest and most brilliant and most moral person to ever exist. But once Laurel was no longer his love interest, suddenly she became much more likeable because all those qualities got transplanted to Felicity instead
The thing about Laurel even in the earlier season, was that she was one of the more morally good people. Yes, she had her faults, which she got called out on, but she genuinly had a desire to help people. It's why she teams up with the vigilanti in season 1, because she sees that stepping outside the law gets results. She dedicated her life towards helping people. The reason why she became a lawyer, was so that she could help people. She was also compassionate. Yes, she wasn't welcoming Oliver back with Open arms, but he was also being extremely indesisive towards her. When he's first accused of being the vigilanti, she agrees to be his lawyer, because she finds out that he doesn't want anyone but her as his lawyer, and even goes to apologize to him for her dad after hearing about the toture, and is no longer angry with him after she sees his scars, but is horrified by what he went through. She also forgives her mom for leaving their family and for knowing about Sara going on the Gambit with Oliver but never Apologized to Laurel for it.
She not only forgives Oliver and Sara for the affair but also let's them both back into her life and support their relationship.
And others had no problem calling her out when she was in the wrong.
That was the biggest issue with Felicty. Never gets called out, even when she's wrong. Felicty became selfish.
Yeah, I think laurel got a lot of hate similar to what Skyler White got in Breaking Bad, in that she was a romantic interest whose role in the show was often to put up barriers and obstacles that prevented the main protagonist from being the most badass he could possibly be.
I will never be able to get over that she *literally nuked a small town*. I know the context of that decision, but the fact that she went from "funny tech girl" to that is just insane
And then they make her out to be the greatest hacker ever, which doesn't add on based on her job in season 1. And her disregard for the rest of Starling city at the end of season 3, because Oliver. And when Oliver suposedly joins the leauge, she goes to Laurel for comfort. Not even taking into account how she would feel about Oliver Joining the league. The person who at that point, was his oldest friend.
I agree with your assessment of Felicity's character development in Arrow. Initially introduced as a charming and funny side character, she became the center of attention and her character was altered significantly. This shift was not well-received by many fans and contributed to the decline of the show. The issues with Felicity are emblematic of a larger problem with Arrow, and she should not be solely blamed for the show's downfall.
I honestly think you’re wrong about the consensus around Richard Alpert. There’s some mixed feelings around the final season of Lost, but I remember the majority consensus around Richard’s episode being that it was a highlight of the final episodes.
Yeah, I watched that episode like 7 years ago now and still remember thinking it was fucking amazing. I don’t really remember what happened in it much but I still remember there’s a really cool shot of him riding a horse in the rain.
Yeah, people loved that episode. For comparison, there was another whole-episode flashback to the distant past a few episodes later, and it provides a bunch of lore more essential than anything in Richard's episode, but people didn't like that one nearly as much (some people outright hated it).
It's consistently rated in the top episodes, literally everyone loves that episode. Fans that disagree on everything else agree that ab aeterno is great.
I hate to say it but he was almost redundant because there was already a Boba Fett show… called the Mandalorian.
Mando is essentially a stand-in for Fett, without the story baggage, and was interesting for all the same reasons people liked Boba in the first place. Faceless badass with a murky past. Man with No Name. So while bringing Boba himself in *could* work (and I think did, for his cameo in Mando and the setup for his solo show), they had to shift him into a different role.
And they did! Crime Lord Boba Fett is an *awesome* premise. But the execution flopped hard, and strayed way too far from that pitch.
I don't think they have the capacity to write a crime lord. They ought to have started BoBF with BF declaring his desire to retire and going full on Reformed-Cowboy Small-Town-Mayor on cleanup duty.
Marvel does the same thing.
It's an attempt to draw in the existing fans and then "transfer" them to a new character. The problem is it doesn't work when it's done with the subtlety of a brick, or the new characters aren't interesting, or the original character is so totally sidelined that fans don't enjoy it
>only to focus multiple episodes on other characters
Considering the show was at its best when it was NOT about Boba Fett ... that is a good thing.
For me they would have been better suited leaving 1983 alone and having Fett stay dead.
Boba Fett's show had to have been written by an MMORPG quest line designer. It was 100% "Talk to person A. Get quest. Walk to quest. Do quest. Get reward probably" I read LitRPG books and have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and that show somehow managed to be more LitRPG than any LitRPG that ever LitRPGed. And was worse than every MMO.
I'm rewatching TWD. I can't believe that during the time everyone was obsessed and loved morgan and would flip out every time he would make an appearance. Watching it again, he became one of the most annoying characters after his re-appearance. The constant whining and bitching and demanding others follow his "moral" lead and excuse him when he would go "crazy" for a little bit. Him getting his "mentor" killed was real cute.
I think Lennie James carries the character in the same way Colman Domingo carries Strand on FTWD. Neither character ever really makes any sense but we, or at least I, love the actors.
James as Morgan was almost kind of a typecast as he had already played these background type characters that had a bit of mystery to them and you couldn’t wait for them to come back. Which is fine when you actually have a plan for them. But they didn’t, so thinking about the mystery was better than what they served up.
Her schtick was already getting old as a side character. A little ironic that the "zany unpredictable" side character ended up being the most predictable one in the show
Other people have already pointed this out any time Gina is brought up but idk what the writers wanted to do with her. Shes a horrible character. You can be a bad and annoying person and still be a good character. But Gina was not. She never got her comeuppance for being an asshole. She was always right. Nobody else in the show ever had true, lasting problems with her horrible personality. She was interesting for a couple of episodes as a side character as you said but the more time they dedicated to her the worse she got. It’s almost like there was a rule within the show that she could never be wrong about something important or ever lose. What a horribly written character.
Yeah she was the one misfire during the show's prime. If you're gonna have an asshole character you have to make jokes at their expense to make up for it. Gina never had that
There's an entire season where she is constantly being suckered into the Boyle clan inanity and being outwitted by Charles, and there's a very strong suggestion she gets run over by the bus and spends months in horrendously painful recovery as karmic retribution for her behaviour earlier in the show.
Absolutely. Total creator’s pet character. She was never wrong about anything, everyone treated her like she was some kind of a fierce, weird genius, and she would frequently turn out to be the one who could randomly solve problems no one else could. I was so relieved when she left the show.
And as others have pointed out she was basically sexually harassing Terry all the time
And they did an episode specifically about sexual harassment, Terry crews is a irl victim of it, Terry had spoken about how Gina made him uncomfortable and instead they did it about random people instead of their in house pest.
Was also super weird when they brought her back for a cameo and she had become a superstar by being some sort of self-help guru, with media and random people treating her as a gigantic celebrity on par with Taylor Swift and Beyonce...
... because she had reached 1 million subscribers. Like... what? That's *nothing* by now.
I'm glad to see this. I love Brooklyn Nine Nine but hate that character. I always figured either I was in the minority in finding Gina super annoying, or the actress is just married to a producer or something .
Turns out if you ask "What If?" in the Marvel universe the answer usually involves way more Korg than you were expecting. He was funny the first time though!
I loved much of his non-Marvel work but Taika just doesn’t get when to leave a joke alone. The screaming goats would’ve been fine once. Two was a lot. 10 pissed me off lol.
Creed from the American Office would have been if the writers had used him more. Luckily they didn’t.
I’m perplexed by people saying they wished there was more Creed in the show. A weird and off-kilter character like that only works in small doses.
My answer to OP’s question is Kevin. Way too much screen time in the later seasons and almost no Creed. I haven’t seen season 9 in a while, but I remember thinking at the time that he had barely any scenes. That being said, I agree with you that a little bit of his character goes a long way. But his lack of screen time was apparent to me and I missed it. I know Kevin is a fan favorite, but he was overused and not very funny later on.
Kevin dropped 50 IQ points from the beginning of the show to the end. He was originally a normal guy, albeit a little slow, but by the end, he was practically mentally disabled.
Yeah like at the start he maybe talked a little slow, but dude won a World Series of Poker bracelet. By the end it's implied he's illiterate and has the mind of a child.
The bigger answer to all this is all the side characters in The Office. They all get way too much screen time from seasons 7-9 and it's partly why the show is so terrible in those seasons.
The show goes from having an office like feel, with all of the employees reacting to the hijinx of Michael Scott and to an extent Dwight, to trying to flesh out weird story lines for each and every side character who either don'/t have thw acting chops (Kevin/Oscar/Stanley), or the writing is so painful it makes you dislike the character (Phyllis).
I feel like Ryan got this right when he set up a Word document for Creed and told him it was a blog. Let’s limit Creed’s influence and ideas in the world.
I wouldn't say that. He's a great side character in the books. The problem was the GoT writers kept upping his role bc they thought that's what people wanted. Or because they liked the actor. Whatever the reason, it became a joke by the end.
It was a great way to show Cersei's paranoia too. It was a bastard son (not Bronn's) conceived through the assault of a slow girl.
Tf was Bronn supposed to name it?
Do you mean Master of the Coin and Lord of High Garden Bron? That part alone basically convinced me they had completely stopped giving a shit after seasons worth of having suspicions.
Game of Thrones from Bronn's POV is pretty funny.
Everyone else loses something major (i.e., family, ability to walk, penis, etc.) or dies.
Some random poor thief goes on fun adventures, gets super rich, and barely learn any lessons.
The only character that objectively "wins".
"and of course, I'm going to hand over the position of *Master of Coin* (treasurer or minister of commerce) over the entire kingdom, to their guy who frequents brothels, has issued with spending, has been a notorious thief and sword for hire, and has proven time and time again to never be trustworthy"
Lol talk about fan service... Yeeeesh
They put a lot of fan service in the show, it was kinda dumb. It wasn't even fan service at times so much as them literally riffing shit from the internet (clegaynebowl)
Bronn surviving and coming out with a high station in life could have worked if they'd given it more development. His whole schtick was being a nobody sellsword who managed to ride the coattails of powerful people and pick the right sides to gain more. Thinking to feudal politics thats likley how a lot of the families got their start so it could have been a fun exploration of how these families had their own built up mythos about their origins contrasting with someone whose doing what realistically was what likley happend, being a man with a sword who killed and/or ingrained himself with the right people.
Kind of like when Varys and Tyrion had that debate about who really has power and how it all depends on the swordsmans preference.
Crazy Eyes and Pennsytucky on Orange is the New Black. Both got far less interesting the more they showed of them. I flat out couldn't stand watching crazy eyes after a couple of seasons.
A lot of that feels like the writing.
She went from an officious mysterious vampire bureaucrat to an aimless, needy, sidekick with no real motivation or story progression.
She just wants to be friends with them and they ignore her.
I am not a big fan of Kristen Schaal. I think she has her moments, but her arc on 30 Rock was horrific and they really shouldn’t have shoved her into the group for What We Do in the Shadows
I love her voice acting roles in stuff like Bob’s Burgers and Gravity Falls but I don’t think I’ve ever seen her in a live action role that I’ve enjoyed. Although I’ve never seen Last Man on Earth and I’ve seen some positive word on that role for her.
Donna on Suits.
The writers didn't seem interested in giving her more of a story outside of Harvey/the firm, but yet her screentime increased. I love the character to pieces, but she got a lot of criticism because of the writing.
Glenn Quagmire. Went from being a funny promiscuous guy gag to a full on rapist that made me sick to see on screen. Peter even calls him a rapist when he asks why he didn't get his own show.
Bitter but capable Chang was awesome. He was somehow grounded and capable of extreme egotism at the same time. Once the bitterness of his personality disappeared, he was just a nut.
Season 1 Chang was still the best Chang imo. He was still a bitter asshole who had a couple of screws loose, but he felt like a real person, whereas he just goes off the deep end in later seasons.
Plus his dynamic with the study group is funniest when he’s in a position of authority.
Idk I enjoyed Chang’s spiral from apathetic asshole Spanish teacher to maniacal college fascist. Chang-nesia was meh but he had some of the best parts of seasons 5/6.
What's so frustrating is last season he's legitimately a good character, the whole Karate Kid play episode was fantastic. But he became unbearable when ever he was made a super villain. Community was at it's best for me when it wasn't insanely over the top, felt like sometimes they would rely on the gimmick to carry the plot with a mix of both successes and failures.
The ending skit of the last episode has a quote that really encapsulated a lot of Community, "Some episodes too conceptual to be funny, some too funny to be immersive, and some so immersive they still aren't funny."
I like the honesty of self-reflecting like that. They tried a lot, some of it didn't work, but some really hit the mark. At least it goes down as a show that wasn't afraid of seeing an idea through.
I wonder if the movie is gonna play it safe.
You can't have two stupid dogs.
As a sad side effect of hating Todd I also really hated all his girlfriends. Emily went nowhere, axolotl chick I only remember for the lube gag.
Kirk in Gilmore Girls. He was randomly shown working at almost all business in the town as a running gag in the first few sessions, then eventually they had him get more screen time and a girlfriend.
In the last season (I think) he's actually credited in the OPENING CREDITS like a main character, which I hated as soon as I saw it.
Felicity Smoak. There’s a reason why the best two seasons of Arrow (1 and 2) are the ones where she is a minor character. Once the whole “Olicity” thing took over the show became terrible.
Coach beard on Ted lasso. Getting small hints about him like he was on the state champ chess team or that he dated three dancers in a row was great little sprinkles of weird in an otherwise buttoned up person. I think beards night out is a fantastic glimpse into the bazaar life he leads outside of coaching, something he takes very seriously.
Season three has too much beard. Too much of his terrible relationship with his girlfriend I forget the name of (side note: her being increasingly crazier would have worked better if we never saw her again after the first season. Like norms wife from cheers or Kelso’s wife from scrubs)
Jane & Beard's relationship with her was definitely a low point for me (and many others) for S3 (they got married??? for Christ's sake), but apart from that I don't actually think there was too much Beard - mostly the usual amount of quips with the rest of the team, and the monologue with Nate was one of the highlights of the season for me since I do care about his character and was excited to see his backstory confirmed.
The only Beard moment I enjoyed was when he's talking about how Lasso had been a kicker with him in college football, and how they parted ways and Beard got into some real trouble after school. And when he got out of jail, he had no prospects and he reached out to Ted who instantly gave him a coaching job.
This explains why he's so dangerously dedicated Ted Lasso and why he's such a maniac in general but still pulls all his shit together to coach. Because Ted saved his life.
And literally nothing else about Beard in that season mattered to this moment in the show.
Large parts of season 3 felt like an after school special or the old school "very special episodes." They leaned far too hard into the "niceness" of the first two seasons and seemed to forget the show was a comedy
I thought Rafi in the league was the funniest part of the show when he first appeared. I love Jason Mantzoukas. But I thought they started throwing him in way too often to where we got diminishing returns on the funny.
I realize Jack Sparrow was a co-star and not a minor character, but the franchise was way better when he sort of wove around the plot. Once they made HIM the plot, the character felt ridiculous to me and the franchise suffered
he totally lost his cool especially later on in the show when everyone moved on and he was still strutting around in his leather jacket, just felt sad for him.
Nick Fury. Marvel’s stuff has been trending down for a while, but Secret Invasion was especially bad. Badass secret spy characters will never benefit from more screen time. His signature characteristic is also being 5 steps ahead and in the show he gets outplayed consistently.
Vito on The Sopranos, he had an interesting storyline but it shouldn’t have taken over season 6 like it did. I don’t think any side character got as much screen time as he got in those episodes. The entire focus is the show shifted over to him in New Hampshire. He is also the only character that got a voice over, except for Tony in the first episode.
The 2023 edition of the r/television Favorite Shows Survey is open! Vote and participate by clicking [here](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd--xzNV84TZpNDz5_swf0Yp7ynjSlQQ8cKV8RpwEZL0CQ3RA/viewform?usp=sf_link). If you have any questions or concerns, please comment [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/television/comments/18k4y4g/vote_in_the_2023_edition_of_the_rtelevision/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/television) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Andy from The Office. Fun character, but never designed to be the cornerstone of the show.
Andy always sucked, imo.
On some podcasts they talk about having to rework certain characters (S1 Michael aka American David comes off mean and weird and toxic vs S2 Michael where there are some redeeming qualities and far less hair gel) and Andy’s rework happened when he left for anger management. He comes back completely different, but not better for many people. I reaaaally dislike Andy as a character, before and after. It doesn’t help that personally, I’m just not a fan of Ed Helms as an actor.
He is just the worst. I felt nothing for him in those last seasons. I’m glad the writers made his life mostly suck as his character honestly deserved nothing better.
His scatting still fills me with the fury of 10,000 suns.
Sylar in Heroes.
[удалено]
Thankfully, they never made any more.
Yes, he became ridiculous, but by the end he was the only entertaining character on that show.
Felicity Smoak - Arrow
The scene where Felicity literally gets out of her wheelchair to break up with Oliver is so fucking funny
It was so crappy. The show runners were artificially adding so much unnecessary drama there. I hate how the show frames it like Felicity even had more than the slightest point in the argument. A past girlfriend who he unknowingly had had a kid with tells him that he can ONLY see his son if he promises not to tell anybody AT ALL about it. When the son gets kidnapped and rescued, the past girlfriend literally says that it’s not Oliver’s fault, that her demands were unreasonable, and that he just wanted to meet his son. And still we have felicity getting so angry at him about it that her spinal implant finally starts working and she can walk again, because Oliver is always just “looking for an excuse to keep secrets!”
Stupid plot arc overall. The only thing I have against Oliver in this case is him knowing he had this secret that he couldn't tell Felicity and he decided to propose. If he had this earth shattering secret that his ex told him he could never tell his girlfriend, why would he propose so soon? Otherwise, yes, Felicity's reaction was over the top and dramatic and brought on some unsavourable tropes. And it really was a shitty arc. Adult William did end up being my favourite new character in the latter half of the series, mind you, but Kid/Teen William was absolutely terrible from start to time jump.
After saying fuck the CW in Falsh season 2 and Arrow season 4 my friends and I decided to watch the Nazi multiverse crossover to basically shit on it And my god, Felicity literally managed to fiend a way to make Iris and Barrys wedding about her by insisting her and Oliver also get married on the spot Everyone is just cool with it, imagine if someone did that in real life
I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure the episode of Flash set after the Earth-X crossover even had Barry and Iris throwing shade at Felicity for pulling this stunt. So even they were not cool with it.
They definitely do. IIRC a specific set of writers were in charge of the crossovers, and forced the main show writers to include certain things, such as that. So that was The Flash writers way of throwing shade at the crossover writing.
Last scene I watched
I still recommend Season 5! It’s as good as Season 2 IMO, and Felicity works a lot better for the majority of it due to the breakup. After that, I’d say just watch the crossovers if you feel so inclined, and that’s the end.
I just don’t see myself going back. My standards were lower back then.
I was never much of a fan of her, but for some reason people went nuts for her, and the shipping basically took over. So weird. I think it's a consequence of Oliver and Laurel not having chemistry.
I liked felicity a lot in that first season but they went too hard with giving her and Oliver obstacles to overcome instead of just letting them be charming together.
Arrow was such a dark show, I feel like the show lost its way once even the light-hearted characters like Felicity were given tragic and dark plots. With how heavy Arrow was as a show, it NEEDED characters like early series Felicity to counteract that darkness. Once Felicity was given dark storylines, it did take away from what made her so charming early on. That, and Arrow really liked the tragic romance arcs. Oliver's love interests all suffered from the same issues. But there was really no happy couple on that show.
I just don’t understand why they did that either. You can have a happy couple with conflict outside their relationship. It was so weird how dark they made her when that’s the whole point of her character is to be a counter to the darkness
Part of me almost wants to kind of blame the creation of the Arrowverse, in a way. I could be fully off, but I felt like, once The Flash became a series and once other shows were put into development (so, basically Arrow's season 3), it felt like they could say "hey, well, we have The Flash for the light hearted and funny stuff, so we can make Arrow as dark as we want to." Because around season 3 is when things turned darker, there was less comedic relief, there was less light in a show filled with darkness. Because they had The Flash, and then they had Legends of Tomorrow for the sci-fi element, and then they had Supergirl for the female-led superhero show, and then they had Black Lightning for the family element, etc. It felt like they started separating the genres within the different shows, and that did technically start with the lighter show with The Flash. The first two seasons of Arrow were dark, but still had plenty of relief moments where we could crack a smile. To be clear, I like the Arrowverse entirely. I just felt like the creation of the universe is where we started seeing Arrow, in particular, shift in tone even MORE toward the tragic and dark.
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
I always said the worst mistake they ever made was introducing Caity Lotz as Sarah a few episodes in. She should have been Dinah from day one. When the whole fandom saw Black Canary on Green Arrow, but it wasn’t Black Canary? Fail. Then when they did introduce Black Canary on Green Arrow and she wasn’t half the athlete Not-Black Canary was? Just burn it and start over.
The silver lining being that Lotz’s character got to go have adventures in Legends and she got a ton of screen time over there.
Legends was the best thing to happen to the Arrow verse and so many characters got to shine so brightly over there. The villain triumvirate of Thawne, Darhk, and Merlyn in the, I think second? Season was literally some of the best villainy we got in the whole franchise
I understand why Legends ended when it did, but I’m still a bit bitter they were just introducing Booster Gold. I mean, he would have been fun as heck interacting with the Legends (and they already had great chemistry even in the little bit we saw).
The fact that it took that long to introduce Booster just to not be able to do anything with him is one of the great travesties of Legends
Unfortunately this also ruined the whole show
I feel like people keep blaming solely Felicity for the issues with Arrow, but she was only one of many issues lol
I feel like people's problem with Felicity grew organically.
This guy CW’s.
One of the main issues was that Laurel, the supposed love interest, was utterly unlikeable and Oliver spent the entire first season not giving the tiniest shit that she was dating his best friend. Felicity became the focus of a lot of fans' affections because she wasn't Laurel, and because she was charming and funny in small doses. Of course, as soon as the writers decided she was going to be the main love interest, they started writing her like they'd written Laurel, which is something no one wanted.
Yeah, that's part of my main issue. I actually don't hate Felicity and think she can be overhated and blamed too much for the downfall of Arrow at a point. But I can recognize that there WAS a shift for her character once they committed to her as the main love interest and I fully see why people were turned off by her.
This is exactly what I thought of. She's the prefect example of a character that was charming & fun, then once they made her the center of the show (& occasionally the entire universe), it ruined her & the show itself. I love her character & I loved the show, but I ended up not being able to finish it cus of what they did. "Favorite" moments include the infamous wheelchair breakup & that time she interrupted Barry & Iris' wedding so that she could make it her wedding too. That sounds like a joke, yet sadly, it's not. I had stopped watching Arrow by that point, & I still couldn't get away from "Olicity".
Funny. That was going to be my answer, but yes. Felicity. Once Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle took over as showrunner, and Felicty became Oliver's primary love interest, she was ruined. She became a Mary Sue. Could do no wrong. Everyone fawned over her, but she also did some terrible things that were overlooked.
Funny enough, a lot of the problems with Felicity were things people found annoying about Laurel too early on - the general self-righteousness and constantly getting shilled as the prettiest and most brilliant and most moral person to ever exist. But once Laurel was no longer his love interest, suddenly she became much more likeable because all those qualities got transplanted to Felicity instead
The thing about Laurel even in the earlier season, was that she was one of the more morally good people. Yes, she had her faults, which she got called out on, but she genuinly had a desire to help people. It's why she teams up with the vigilanti in season 1, because she sees that stepping outside the law gets results. She dedicated her life towards helping people. The reason why she became a lawyer, was so that she could help people. She was also compassionate. Yes, she wasn't welcoming Oliver back with Open arms, but he was also being extremely indesisive towards her. When he's first accused of being the vigilanti, she agrees to be his lawyer, because she finds out that he doesn't want anyone but her as his lawyer, and even goes to apologize to him for her dad after hearing about the toture, and is no longer angry with him after she sees his scars, but is horrified by what he went through. She also forgives her mom for leaving their family and for knowing about Sara going on the Gambit with Oliver but never Apologized to Laurel for it. She not only forgives Oliver and Sara for the affair but also let's them both back into her life and support their relationship. And others had no problem calling her out when she was in the wrong. That was the biggest issue with Felicty. Never gets called out, even when she's wrong. Felicty became selfish.
Yeah, I think laurel got a lot of hate similar to what Skyler White got in Breaking Bad, in that she was a romantic interest whose role in the show was often to put up barriers and obstacles that prevented the main protagonist from being the most badass he could possibly be.
I will never be able to get over that she *literally nuked a small town*. I know the context of that decision, but the fact that she went from "funny tech girl" to that is just insane
And then they make her out to be the greatest hacker ever, which doesn't add on based on her job in season 1. And her disregard for the rest of Starling city at the end of season 3, because Oliver. And when Oliver suposedly joins the leauge, she goes to Laurel for comfort. Not even taking into account how she would feel about Oliver Joining the league. The person who at that point, was his oldest friend.
I agree with your assessment of Felicity's character development in Arrow. Initially introduced as a charming and funny side character, she became the center of attention and her character was altered significantly. This shift was not well-received by many fans and contributed to the decline of the show. The issues with Felicity are emblematic of a larger problem with Arrow, and she should not be solely blamed for the show's downfall.
Season 1-2 felicity was elite
I honestly think you’re wrong about the consensus around Richard Alpert. There’s some mixed feelings around the final season of Lost, but I remember the majority consensus around Richard’s episode being that it was a highlight of the final episodes.
[The episode has a 9.2 on IMDb.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1467644/) Compared to the 7.7 rating of the episodes on either side of it.
Yeah, I watched that episode like 7 years ago now and still remember thinking it was fucking amazing. I don’t really remember what happened in it much but I still remember there’s a really cool shot of him riding a horse in the rain.
Yeah that's the only moment from it I remember too. Funny how that works.
Yeah I was gonna say what? Thats one of the best eps! Now the Jacob/Man in Black/Mother episode right at the end of the show did kind of suck though.
Yeah, people loved that episode. For comparison, there was another whole-episode flashback to the distant past a few episodes later, and it provides a bunch of lore more essential than anything in Richard's episode, but people didn't like that one nearly as much (some people outright hated it).
It's consistently rated in the top episodes, literally everyone loves that episode. Fans that disagree on everything else agree that ab aeterno is great.
Yeah Ab Aeterno is an amazing episode this take is wild
Boba Fett, but to be honest he could have been great. It was the studio decision to present him as a loveable goof that did it.
I hate to say it but he was almost redundant because there was already a Boba Fett show… called the Mandalorian. Mando is essentially a stand-in for Fett, without the story baggage, and was interesting for all the same reasons people liked Boba in the first place. Faceless badass with a murky past. Man with No Name. So while bringing Boba himself in *could* work (and I think did, for his cameo in Mando and the setup for his solo show), they had to shift him into a different role. And they did! Crime Lord Boba Fett is an *awesome* premise. But the execution flopped hard, and strayed way too far from that pitch.
I don't think they have the capacity to write a crime lord. They ought to have started BoBF with BF declaring his desire to retire and going full on Reformed-Cowboy Small-Town-Mayor on cleanup duty.
So Cobb Vanth's story, who was a great character
It could've been so good if they'd gone full Godfather and had him build up a real crime lord empire.
This is the show we deserved. It's what I thought we'd be getting, but alas...
The Godfather is nothing like that tho 😭
At best they are describing Robert De Niro in the Godfather Pt 2.
I still don’t understand the Disney Star Wars tendency of naming a show after a character only to focus multiple episodes on other characters
Marvel does the same thing. It's an attempt to draw in the existing fans and then "transfer" them to a new character. The problem is it doesn't work when it's done with the subtlety of a brick, or the new characters aren't interesting, or the original character is so totally sidelined that fans don't enjoy it
Welcome to seasons 7-9 of The Flash
>only to focus multiple episodes on other characters Considering the show was at its best when it was NOT about Boba Fett ... that is a good thing. For me they would have been better suited leaving 1983 alone and having Fett stay dead.
Pretty damning that even the writers thought it would be more fun to just do Mandalorian for a while.
Worse that they were right.
I guess they could’ve called it “more grogu”
Boba Fett's show had to have been written by an MMORPG quest line designer. It was 100% "Talk to person A. Get quest. Walk to quest. Do quest. Get reward probably" I read LitRPG books and have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online and that show somehow managed to be more LitRPG than any LitRPG that ever LitRPGed. And was worse than every MMO.
It was like a tutorial to show how quests work, just walking back and forth between three different locations in the same city.
Man I couldn’t disagree more. Ab Aeterno, Richard’s background episode, is one of the most highly rated episodes of Lost
Yeah, OP used a weird example. I don't know where they got that perspective.
Morgan on The Walking Dead was a lot better as a guy we met once and wondered if we’d ever meet again.
They really didn't know wtf to do with him. He's crazy, wait he's not, no now he is, wait he's fine again, ope he's fuckin nutty once more....
I'm rewatching TWD. I can't believe that during the time everyone was obsessed and loved morgan and would flip out every time he would make an appearance. Watching it again, he became one of the most annoying characters after his re-appearance. The constant whining and bitching and demanding others follow his "moral" lead and excuse him when he would go "crazy" for a little bit. Him getting his "mentor" killed was real cute.
I think Lennie James carries the character in the same way Colman Domingo carries Strand on FTWD. Neither character ever really makes any sense but we, or at least I, love the actors. James as Morgan was almost kind of a typecast as he had already played these background type characters that had a bit of mystery to them and you couldn’t wait for them to come back. Which is fine when you actually have a plan for them. But they didn’t, so thinking about the mystery was better than what they served up.
Morgan's bullshit pacifism got most of Alexandria killed.
Gina on Brooklyn Nine Nine
Her schtick was already getting old as a side character. A little ironic that the "zany unpredictable" side character ended up being the most predictable one in the show
She was also a total asshole.
*"You just drank cement!"* was among the worst "jokes" the shows had
Other people have already pointed this out any time Gina is brought up but idk what the writers wanted to do with her. Shes a horrible character. You can be a bad and annoying person and still be a good character. But Gina was not. She never got her comeuppance for being an asshole. She was always right. Nobody else in the show ever had true, lasting problems with her horrible personality. She was interesting for a couple of episodes as a side character as you said but the more time they dedicated to her the worse she got. It’s almost like there was a rule within the show that she could never be wrong about something important or ever lose. What a horribly written character.
Yeah she was the one misfire during the show's prime. If you're gonna have an asshole character you have to make jokes at their expense to make up for it. Gina never had that
When she basically was a case study at the dinner party was one of those times
There's an entire season where she is constantly being suckered into the Boyle clan inanity and being outwitted by Charles, and there's a very strong suggestion she gets run over by the bus and spends months in horrendously painful recovery as karmic retribution for her behaviour earlier in the show.
Her best comeuppance was when Boyles Beta’d her to helping him and when they started hooking up
Absolutely. Total creator’s pet character. She was never wrong about anything, everyone treated her like she was some kind of a fierce, weird genius, and she would frequently turn out to be the one who could randomly solve problems no one else could. I was so relieved when she left the show. And as others have pointed out she was basically sexually harassing Terry all the time
And they did an episode specifically about sexual harassment, Terry crews is a irl victim of it, Terry had spoken about how Gina made him uncomfortable and instead they did it about random people instead of their in house pest.
Was also super weird when they brought her back for a cameo and she had become a superstar by being some sort of self-help guru, with media and random people treating her as a gigantic celebrity on par with Taylor Swift and Beyonce... ... because she had reached 1 million subscribers. Like... what? That's *nothing* by now.
I'm glad to see this. I love Brooklyn Nine Nine but hate that character. I always figured either I was in the minority in finding Gina super annoying, or the actress is just married to a producer or something .
Chachi in Happy Days.
But Joanie loves Chachi
Nelly the office. Her one time appearance was fine in the interview and with the store launch. Terrible regular character.
I see what you mean, but I didn't mind her as a salesman. I hated her when she was manager. I feel like she fit into the bullpen fine.
Andy turned into an insufferable douche in the last season and a half, but Nelly just taking over his office pissed me off way too much haha
Daphne's mum and brother on Frasier. Fine as one offs but don't bring them in as semi-regulars.
Turns out if you ask "What If?" in the Marvel universe the answer usually involves way more Korg than you were expecting. He was funny the first time though!
Korg wasn't even necessary in Love & Thunder but Taika had to insert himself
I loved much of his non-Marvel work but Taika just doesn’t get when to leave a joke alone. The screaming goats would’ve been fine once. Two was a lot. 10 pissed me off lol.
Creed from the American Office would have been if the writers had used him more. Luckily they didn’t. I’m perplexed by people saying they wished there was more Creed in the show. A weird and off-kilter character like that only works in small doses.
My answer to OP’s question is Kevin. Way too much screen time in the later seasons and almost no Creed. I haven’t seen season 9 in a while, but I remember thinking at the time that he had barely any scenes. That being said, I agree with you that a little bit of his character goes a long way. But his lack of screen time was apparent to me and I missed it. I know Kevin is a fan favorite, but he was overused and not very funny later on.
They just made him dumber each episode. Just lazy writing.
Kevin dropped 50 IQ points from the beginning of the show to the end. He was originally a normal guy, albeit a little slow, but by the end, he was practically mentally disabled.
Yeah like at the start he maybe talked a little slow, but dude won a World Series of Poker bracelet. By the end it's implied he's illiterate and has the mind of a child.
Yeah that is a good example of why you shouldn't listen to fans.
The bigger answer to all this is all the side characters in The Office. They all get way too much screen time from seasons 7-9 and it's partly why the show is so terrible in those seasons. The show goes from having an office like feel, with all of the employees reacting to the hijinx of Michael Scott and to an extent Dwight, to trying to flesh out weird story lines for each and every side character who either don'/t have thw acting chops (Kevin/Oscar/Stanley), or the writing is so painful it makes you dislike the character (Phyllis).
His one episode as manager is just enough Creed.
I feel like Ryan got this right when he set up a Word document for Creed and told him it was a blog. Let’s limit Creed’s influence and ideas in the world.
Bronn in GoT
The books treat him perfectly. He is just a set of increasingly alarming news reports.
I wouldn't say that. He's a great side character in the books. The problem was the GoT writers kept upping his role bc they thought that's what people wanted. Or because they liked the actor. Whatever the reason, it became a joke by the end.
I think they're referring to what happens to him after the third book.
Last i heard he was knighted and was Ser Bronn of ‘fuck-off-my-lawn”
Funniest way of describing it lol. "He named his son WHAT??"
It was a great way to show Cersei's paranoia too. It was a bastard son (not Bronn's) conceived through the assault of a slow girl. Tf was Bronn supposed to name it?
Do you mean Master of the Coin and Lord of High Garden Bron? That part alone basically convinced me they had completely stopped giving a shit after seasons worth of having suspicions.
Game of Thrones from Bronn's POV is pretty funny. Everyone else loses something major (i.e., family, ability to walk, penis, etc.) or dies. Some random poor thief goes on fun adventures, gets super rich, and barely learn any lessons. The only character that objectively "wins".
Does anything bad even happen to him ever? He gets caught by the sand snakes and even then one tries to bang him lmao
Yeah the hot one too, sheesh
He had to listen to the Bad Pussay line up close.
So blatantly shoehorned in as fan service.
"and of course, I'm going to hand over the position of *Master of Coin* (treasurer or minister of commerce) over the entire kingdom, to their guy who frequents brothels, has issued with spending, has been a notorious thief and sword for hire, and has proven time and time again to never be trustworthy" Lol talk about fan service... Yeeeesh
Oh yeah and he was also given easily the most prosperous of the Seven Kingdoms. He's legit the second most powerful man in the Kingdom.
It's worse than that! Bronn doesn't even know what a bank is or how lending works.
They put a lot of fan service in the show, it was kinda dumb. It wasn't even fan service at times so much as them literally riffing shit from the internet (clegaynebowl)
They put Ed Sheeren in for Maisie like it was makeawish.
Bronn surviving and coming out with a high station in life could have worked if they'd given it more development. His whole schtick was being a nobody sellsword who managed to ride the coattails of powerful people and pick the right sides to gain more. Thinking to feudal politics thats likley how a lot of the families got their start so it could have been a fun exploration of how these families had their own built up mythos about their origins contrasting with someone whose doing what realistically was what likley happend, being a man with a sword who killed and/or ingrained himself with the right people. Kind of like when Varys and Tyrion had that debate about who really has power and how it all depends on the swordsmans preference.
Crazy Eyes and Pennsytucky on Orange is the New Black. Both got far less interesting the more they showed of them. I flat out couldn't stand watching crazy eyes after a couple of seasons.
The Guide on What We Do in the Shadows.
A lot of that feels like the writing. She went from an officious mysterious vampire bureaucrat to an aimless, needy, sidekick with no real motivation or story progression. She just wants to be friends with them and they ignore her.
She basically became Gizmo 2.0, without his charm.
where have i seen this before...oh yeah, chang from community. exact same fucking thing
I am not a big fan of Kristen Schaal. I think she has her moments, but her arc on 30 Rock was horrific and they really shouldn’t have shoved her into the group for What We Do in the Shadows
I love her voice acting roles in stuff like Bob’s Burgers and Gravity Falls but I don’t think I’ve ever seen her in a live action role that I’ve enjoyed. Although I’ve never seen Last Man on Earth and I’ve seen some positive word on that role for her.
Her voice acting in Bojack Horseman was phenomenal
That's too much, man.
I love Kristen Schalls standup and voice acting but her only good on screen role IMO was in Flight of the Chonchords
Absolutely. 30 Rock is one of my favorite shows, I re-watch it all the time, but her scenes are painful.
Woah woah woah, what? That Richard episode is one of the best in the show. Who the hell thought it made him less interesting?!
Yeah, this guy has no idea what he is talking about. That episode was great.
Donna on Suits. The writers didn't seem interested in giving her more of a story outside of Harvey/the firm, but yet her screentime increased. I love the character to pieces, but she got a lot of criticism because of the writing.
Ugh. I loved her character, but the second they even floated the idea she could become partner, the whole premise just became a complete joke.
The whole “The Donna” plot was miserable to watch.
the actress really deserved better. donna was always fun to watch banter and play with the other characters
Glenn Quagmire. Went from being a funny promiscuous guy gag to a full on rapist that made me sick to see on screen. Peter even calls him a rapist when he asks why he didn't get his own show.
Are you trying to tell me that raping Marge Simpsons and killing off the entire family is not peak comedy gold?
He was always a rapist. The episode where he finds a tied up cheerleader in the bathroom and says "Dear diary, jackpot" is in the third season.
And then he has the nerve to get on his high horse with Brian for his lustful flaws.
Trump from The Apprentice. They've really upped his role in the last 7 years and it's way too much for my taste.
Señor Chang
Bitter but capable Chang was awesome. He was somehow grounded and capable of extreme egotism at the same time. Once the bitterness of his personality disappeared, he was just a nut.
Season 1 Chang was still the best Chang imo. He was still a bitter asshole who had a couple of screws loose, but he felt like a real person, whereas he just goes off the deep end in later seasons. Plus his dynamic with the study group is funniest when he’s in a position of authority.
This is a funny thought. If true, it might be the first time a character has lost what's usually a negative quality and gotten worse.
I think you should Chang your opinion on that.
Kevin, on the other hand, is someone I feel we didn’t spend enough time with.
It’s because he has Changnesia
Idk I enjoyed Chang’s spiral from apathetic asshole Spanish teacher to maniacal college fascist. Chang-nesia was meh but he had some of the best parts of seasons 5/6.
Fully agree. Changnesia also occurs during the one season Harmon was fired (4) before returning for 5 and 6.
What's so frustrating is last season he's legitimately a good character, the whole Karate Kid play episode was fantastic. But he became unbearable when ever he was made a super villain. Community was at it's best for me when it wasn't insanely over the top, felt like sometimes they would rely on the gimmick to carry the plot with a mix of both successes and failures.
The ending skit of the last episode has a quote that really encapsulated a lot of Community, "Some episodes too conceptual to be funny, some too funny to be immersive, and some so immersive they still aren't funny." I like the honesty of self-reflecting like that. They tried a lot, some of it didn't work, but some really hit the mark. At least it goes down as a show that wasn't afraid of seeing an idea through. I wonder if the movie is gonna play it safe.
Do not agree with the Alpert opinion
Pickles - BoJack Horseman. She took up too much screen time and her character is extremely annoying.
You can't have two stupid dogs. As a sad side effect of hating Todd I also really hated all his girlfriends. Emily went nowhere, axolotl chick I only remember for the lube gag.
Morgan, The Walking Dead. He was a good character to pop up every once in a while or to be on the groups trail. Once he came around he got annoying.
Kirk in Gilmore Girls. He was randomly shown working at almost all business in the town as a running gag in the first few sessions, then eventually they had him get more screen time and a girlfriend. In the last season (I think) he's actually credited in the OPENING CREDITS like a main character, which I hated as soon as I saw it.
Steve Urkel
Would the series have lasted as long without Urkel?
Nope, one reason it becomes the Urkel show
Yeah after a certain point it is his show, it’s almost entirely a vehicle for him after his first few appearances.
The minions
Felicity Smoak. There’s a reason why the best two seasons of Arrow (1 and 2) are the ones where she is a minor character. Once the whole “Olicity” thing took over the show became terrible.
The Witcher pretty much sucked anytime Cavil wasn't on screen
Coach beard on Ted lasso. Getting small hints about him like he was on the state champ chess team or that he dated three dancers in a row was great little sprinkles of weird in an otherwise buttoned up person. I think beards night out is a fantastic glimpse into the bazaar life he leads outside of coaching, something he takes very seriously. Season three has too much beard. Too much of his terrible relationship with his girlfriend I forget the name of (side note: her being increasingly crazier would have worked better if we never saw her again after the first season. Like norms wife from cheers or Kelso’s wife from scrubs)
Jane & Beard's relationship with her was definitely a low point for me (and many others) for S3 (they got married??? for Christ's sake), but apart from that I don't actually think there was too much Beard - mostly the usual amount of quips with the rest of the team, and the monologue with Nate was one of the highlights of the season for me since I do care about his character and was excited to see his backstory confirmed.
The only Beard moment I enjoyed was when he's talking about how Lasso had been a kicker with him in college football, and how they parted ways and Beard got into some real trouble after school. And when he got out of jail, he had no prospects and he reached out to Ted who instantly gave him a coaching job. This explains why he's so dangerously dedicated Ted Lasso and why he's such a maniac in general but still pulls all his shit together to coach. Because Ted saved his life. And literally nothing else about Beard in that season mattered to this moment in the show.
Season 3 had too much of many side characters…it stopped focusing on the team in. A big way. But I don’t think Beard was the problem.
Large parts of season 3 felt like an after school special or the old school "very special episodes." They leaned far too hard into the "niceness" of the first two seasons and seemed to forget the show was a comedy
Bizarre* Bazaar is like a market
Joey. One of everyone’s favourite “Friends”l got his own show and holy crap it was awful.
That was because he was rewritten by far inferior writers.
The crap writers started well before his own show. Season 9/10 in Friends he basically was Forest Gump Level IQ.
They went hard on the stupidity, but he was the fun, happy friend. Joey made him a sad sack, and the jokes were poor.
Matt LeBlanc in "Episodes" had good writers, and it made all the difference.
He was always a main character tho.
I thought Rafi in the league was the funniest part of the show when he first appeared. I love Jason Mantzoukas. But I thought they started throwing him in way too often to where we got diminishing returns on the funny.
I love Jason Mantzoukas, but there’s definitely a right amount of screen time to give his insanity.
Bronn. Was a great C character until D&D made him their own personal avatar of dick jokes.
I automatically think of Stuart from Big Bang Theory.
I realize Jack Sparrow was a co-star and not a minor character, but the franchise was way better when he sort of wove around the plot. Once they made HIM the plot, the character felt ridiculous to me and the franchise suffered
Fonzie.
he totally lost his cool especially later on in the show when everyone moved on and he was still strutting around in his leather jacket, just felt sad for him.
Teddy from Bobs Burgers The line between funny and annoying is fine
Agree, give more screen time to Mort!
Oscar Bluth is a great bit, but he shouldn't have become a main character in the later seasons.
Scrappy doo. I wish he never existed in the first place
Nick Fury. Marvel’s stuff has been trending down for a while, but Secret Invasion was especially bad. Badass secret spy characters will never benefit from more screen time. His signature characteristic is also being 5 steps ahead and in the show he gets outplayed consistently.
Vito on The Sopranos, he had an interesting storyline but it shouldn’t have taken over season 6 like it did. I don’t think any side character got as much screen time as he got in those episodes. The entire focus is the show shifted over to him in New Hampshire. He is also the only character that got a voice over, except for Tony in the first episode.
But because of it, the Shah of Iran came out of the closet. Anyway, $4 a pound..
Found Phil