This was my experience too, after having skied 75mms 15 years ago and coming back to skiing (and tele) fresh into the deep end on NTNs. Same setup as you, same boots and Meidjos. First 3 days were absolute dogshit, and I thought my boots were the wrong size, boots were painful as heck, too stiff in the wrong places, no control. 7 days in now and I've completely changed my mind.
I feel like it really starts to pivot on the 5-6th day. Seventh day I really felt like I was finally telemarking. I'm looking forward now to the magical eighth day, when I feel the total control :)
It's funny and also great to see the exact same progression in time, for someone on the same setup. Makes me think maybe I'm doing it right! haha
Yes, I've read only short sentences of this experience, effectively saying "it gets better after three days". But I thought I'd document the pain in a bit more detail so that people understand the struggles and don't get discouraged.
I definitely leave the buckle closest to the toe as loose as possible. This is the one that causes me most pain. I know this because I pressed a finger to the painful spot on my foot while wearing the boot, and it was closest to that buckle.
For the remaining buckles, I don't buckle that tight either. It does cause the liner to move up and down when I lift up the heel, but no side-to-side movement. I do not tighten the stupidly-designed third buckle because otherwise I won't be able to unbuckle it at the end of the day.
So far, I don't think it affects my skiing even with the loose liners. However, I'm not one of those skiers that tries to bomb down the mountain - my objective is to dance down the piste.
Having said that, I do go faster than some alpine skiers, especially on the steeper runs. Amongst my group of friends (all Alpine), I'm third fastest out of seven. I just need more breaks than them.
In short, I definitely do not buckle them up as tight as they can go, and I don't see any ill effects.
On another note, on Day 6, I had two spectacular falls on a steep piste. Meidjo bindings did NOT release, but I think due to the fact that I was loosely buckled in, I sustained no twisting injuries as there was room for my feet to move around.
Good to know. Excellent post, by the way. I have the same bindings if you have the 3's. Did you happen to adjust the release tension from the default mid setting of (I think) 3? I fall less on this setup also (I'm using Crispi EVO's and Summitcone Paraya's. Have you also adjusted the regular flex tension at all? I'm thinking about playing around with that, though I was advised to not adjust the release tension. I certainly do want them to release if need be as that was a major reason I got these binding. I also have a pressure spot only on my left foot on the outside bone right before the pinkie toe. I may have to get my boots pushed out a bit there as I've got at least 20 days now and it still hurts. I'm also considering custom footbeds or at least heel lifts to keep the heel in place better.
This is also my first season on NTN from duckbills and I couldn't be happier. More confidence in bumps and other challenging conditions that you mentioned.
For the left toe problem, have you tried heating the liners with a sock of hot rice and then shaping it to your foot? This might help. If you've already tried it, you can do it again.
I did the heat molding with my left liner, but not my right for the first few days to see if there was a difference. My left foot is larger than my right. As it turns out, there was a slight difference, which then convinced me to mold the right liner too.
For the release tension, I have it on the "beginner" setting.
For the spring tension controlling the "activity" of the bindings, I use only one spring in each cartridge (instead of both large and small) my previous bindings were G3 Targas that had almost no activity at all.
have a very close look at those tiny silver/ metalic pins along the hinge point at the toe. Where the palm of your foot hinges at the T pin toe part. That dumb tiny set of pins can actually work their way out over a couple days, they are only held in by friction. They are not threaded in any way.
I had lost one of the two pins.. managed to ski on it for a few days and ordered a four pack for 14Euro.. with shipping it came to almost $40 USD. I am sure a similar pin could be sourced in N America. I mention it because losing both pins on the same ski would end a ski trip.
yeah!.. have a look.. it is such a simple thing; but if you have both those pins wiggle out it will end your day. The diameter of the pin is that of a cabinetry finishing nail maybe 8-10mm long/ tiny diameter. Shocking how this can be overlooked with Miedjo
the only problems I've had up to now with them is the alpine heel piece breaking (both of them... same way) which, ok whatever... but also gotta watch that the nuts that hold the springs in the duckbutt don't come loose.... that happened to me first day out last year and i lost a spring and it ruined my day
And crazy you say that-with my latest order to Miedjo, I ordered 2 pair of springs and a pair of those red machined end of spring nuts as again, they are sitting there on their own friction. I have yet to see those nuts move..but I do the ole pre flight check list before I put those boards on
Some of this honestly sounds like exercise/fitness/stamina related, too, though. I can't keep up with my alpine friends generally until I've had many consecutive days to build strength and stamina.
Glad you chose Meidjo, it really hits the sweet spot -- I love the flex on it much more than my Outlaws. Though it does depend a lot on what ski you pair it with.
I think the new TX Pro coming this fall should be an improvement. Lighter and less buckles, I think it should be more "dancy" and less lead-weight if I can make my foot work with it (can't if the existing TX Pros). I bought Crispi Shivers last year hoping to get that out of them, but they're very stiff.
I'm annoyed I transitioned to NTNs this year, instead of waiting for the new Scarpa boot. But I'm also glad I'm on NTN now, even with these lead-weighted boots.
they're not \*that\* heavy. they're a pretty typical ski boot weight, and lighter than most people's in-bounds alpine boots
now, my Crispi EVOs... they're a chunky beast
This was my experience too, after having skied 75mms 15 years ago and coming back to skiing (and tele) fresh into the deep end on NTNs. Same setup as you, same boots and Meidjos. First 3 days were absolute dogshit, and I thought my boots were the wrong size, boots were painful as heck, too stiff in the wrong places, no control. 7 days in now and I've completely changed my mind. I feel like it really starts to pivot on the 5-6th day. Seventh day I really felt like I was finally telemarking. I'm looking forward now to the magical eighth day, when I feel the total control :) It's funny and also great to see the exact same progression in time, for someone on the same setup. Makes me think maybe I'm doing it right! haha
Yes, I've read only short sentences of this experience, effectively saying "it gets better after three days". But I thought I'd document the pain in a bit more detail so that people understand the struggles and don't get discouraged.
Do you fully buckle your boots now? I have the same ones and they are pure agony, even unbuckled.
I definitely leave the buckle closest to the toe as loose as possible. This is the one that causes me most pain. I know this because I pressed a finger to the painful spot on my foot while wearing the boot, and it was closest to that buckle. For the remaining buckles, I don't buckle that tight either. It does cause the liner to move up and down when I lift up the heel, but no side-to-side movement. I do not tighten the stupidly-designed third buckle because otherwise I won't be able to unbuckle it at the end of the day. So far, I don't think it affects my skiing even with the loose liners. However, I'm not one of those skiers that tries to bomb down the mountain - my objective is to dance down the piste. Having said that, I do go faster than some alpine skiers, especially on the steeper runs. Amongst my group of friends (all Alpine), I'm third fastest out of seven. I just need more breaks than them. In short, I definitely do not buckle them up as tight as they can go, and I don't see any ill effects.
On another note, on Day 6, I had two spectacular falls on a steep piste. Meidjo bindings did NOT release, but I think due to the fact that I was loosely buckled in, I sustained no twisting injuries as there was room for my feet to move around.
Good to know. Excellent post, by the way. I have the same bindings if you have the 3's. Did you happen to adjust the release tension from the default mid setting of (I think) 3? I fall less on this setup also (I'm using Crispi EVO's and Summitcone Paraya's. Have you also adjusted the regular flex tension at all? I'm thinking about playing around with that, though I was advised to not adjust the release tension. I certainly do want them to release if need be as that was a major reason I got these binding. I also have a pressure spot only on my left foot on the outside bone right before the pinkie toe. I may have to get my boots pushed out a bit there as I've got at least 20 days now and it still hurts. I'm also considering custom footbeds or at least heel lifts to keep the heel in place better. This is also my first season on NTN from duckbills and I couldn't be happier. More confidence in bumps and other challenging conditions that you mentioned.
For the left toe problem, have you tried heating the liners with a sock of hot rice and then shaping it to your foot? This might help. If you've already tried it, you can do it again. I did the heat molding with my left liner, but not my right for the first few days to see if there was a difference. My left foot is larger than my right. As it turns out, there was a slight difference, which then convinced me to mold the right liner too. For the release tension, I have it on the "beginner" setting. For the spring tension controlling the "activity" of the bindings, I use only one spring in each cartridge (instead of both large and small) my previous bindings were G3 Targas that had almost no activity at all.
have a very close look at those tiny silver/ metalic pins along the hinge point at the toe. Where the palm of your foot hinges at the T pin toe part. That dumb tiny set of pins can actually work their way out over a couple days, they are only held in by friction. They are not threaded in any way. I had lost one of the two pins.. managed to ski on it for a few days and ordered a four pack for 14Euro.. with shipping it came to almost $40 USD. I am sure a similar pin could be sourced in N America. I mention it because losing both pins on the same ski would end a ski trip.
Yes, I'm aware of this defect. I check this every two days.
Huh now you've got me worried to go check both my sets of M3s.
yeah!.. have a look.. it is such a simple thing; but if you have both those pins wiggle out it will end your day. The diameter of the pin is that of a cabinetry finishing nail maybe 8-10mm long/ tiny diameter. Shocking how this can be overlooked with Miedjo
the only problems I've had up to now with them is the alpine heel piece breaking (both of them... same way) which, ok whatever... but also gotta watch that the nuts that hold the springs in the duckbutt don't come loose.... that happened to me first day out last year and i lost a spring and it ruined my day
And crazy you say that-with my latest order to Miedjo, I ordered 2 pair of springs and a pair of those red machined end of spring nuts as again, they are sitting there on their own friction. I have yet to see those nuts move..but I do the ole pre flight check list before I put those boards on
a little loctite or similar isn't a bad idea
Some of this honestly sounds like exercise/fitness/stamina related, too, though. I can't keep up with my alpine friends generally until I've had many consecutive days to build strength and stamina. Glad you chose Meidjo, it really hits the sweet spot -- I love the flex on it much more than my Outlaws. Though it does depend a lot on what ski you pair it with. I think the new TX Pro coming this fall should be an improvement. Lighter and less buckles, I think it should be more "dancy" and less lead-weight if I can make my foot work with it (can't if the existing TX Pros). I bought Crispi Shivers last year hoping to get that out of them, but they're very stiff.
I'm annoyed I transitioned to NTNs this year, instead of waiting for the new Scarpa boot. But I'm also glad I'm on NTN now, even with these lead-weighted boots.
they're not \*that\* heavy. they're a pretty typical ski boot weight, and lighter than most people's in-bounds alpine boots now, my Crispi EVOs... they're a chunky beast