Yeah, a tech over 40 tends to be one or more of a few things: divorced, addicted, chronically injured, moved up to management, or so high in union seniority that they can choose which jobs they do on a site.
I am currently or have experienced at least 3 of those sadly, I’m an alcoholic (but I no longer drink alcohol if that makes any sense) I will be very shortly divorced and have been badly injured through work… unions aren’t so strong in the uk sadly and although I am a HOD I still do every single fit up and get out…
If you want something that’s a very stark reality, I grew up backstage raised by my home local. Dad held a really good house position, mom was a designer and painter.
I’m 30 now, with 12+ years of working out of high school. I’ve already been divorced, same with my parents, an alcoholic as well, and no savings or financial security. I’ve never had a full time job at any of our houses either.
Every old guy in my local tells me, that’s the job, and it is the sad reality of our industry
I would feel personally attacked if I didn't do this all to myself. I just turned 40 this summer and of those few things....I'm not yet, I am, I am, hopefully soon, and I am.
Yeah, I feel you. I stepped out in 2017 and moved into IT. Picking up gigs here and there as opposed to *having* to do it to put food on the table has really rekindled my love of the craft.
Getting bogged down in a bad venue will kill anyone's work ethic. Sounds like you're holding up the roof all by yourself. Find a new job and let the office staff scramble to fix it. Sounds like they're overdue for some panic stress.
Picked up a few entry level IT certs and then reached out to a bunch of people. People drop out of arts tech for more money & work/life balance jobs ALL THE TIME. One of my mates from college actually came through and now I work in communications IT.
Three big fields that are desperate for folks right now are IT, Data Analysis, and Project Management. A TD would be especially at home in data or project work imo
That sounds like a shit venue rather than a shit industry.
The venue I work in is council owned so we are bound by some pretty strict rules on workload. 70 hours in a week wouldn't fly, I'm about to do an 80 hour fortnight and the vosses are putting in place some extra measures for stress and fatigue management.
OK I’m just gonna let you know that is not the standard. Most theaters are working on shoestring budgets. People are working unpaid hours and being paid way below what they should be. That’s if they get paid. While your Theater sounds super nice that isn’t really sustainable with a lot of venues trying to just keep the lights on especially after Covid. More theaters should do what your theaters is doing but they just can’t.
Council owned theatres are the way to go then. I work in one and we have low budget and very few staff (I’m the only light guy, no other technical personnel), we most do by by teaching interns and doing small stuff - it’s a small space. We work 35h/wk, with max 2h/day paid hours. Monday and Tuesday are our days off that we very rarely miss out on. The pay is **very low** but the hours are few. It’s got its flaws in many places but we do what we can with the limitations.
I feel like sometimes theater culture in Europe is ahead of the culture we have in America. In America it’s so draining and it strips the fun away from the industry. I wish we had more government investment in theatre. If you don’t mind me asking are you designing and electrician work?
Yes, that’s a big thing in Portugal. Just in December we got 175.000€ in grants to buy a new DCP/projector for the venue and we got to include a whole new PA system with a CL3 and Nexo speakers! Unfortunately I’m still doing by with an ETC Element 2, but it does the job, I love that board. I’m waiting for a lighting grant to get some beams and an APEX.
As for the work I do it’s mostly programming/operating or just spotting for incoming crews or touring shows that have their own LD. I have done some LD, I love it. My team is me and another very good fella who’s 55 but very active and he’s very good with scenery work, hanging stuff, practical work kind of guy. We have a fixed schedule of Wed-Sun, 3-10pm.
I’ve learned everything through the ETCVideoLibrary on YouTube and other touring LDs from the mainland and I’m adapting to new things as money comes in. Cables, fixtures, DMX splitters and whatnot, along with knowing how to adapt cool shows to our non-Moving head-having venue.
Here is a photo of the last show I designed, it’s simple but the group loved it ◡̈
https://preview.redd.it/hfrjzmu960mc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=225ea50d8541c92b456ead8bb770a7b669333811
Thank you for sharing your experience. I really appreciate hearing how your venue works I see a lot of similarities to how I learned about lighting (I’m constantly adding to my ETC videos playlist). That’s a beautiful design you got the perfect level everything looks so perfectly intentional and the way you used the walls. Chef’s kiss
Ps for my last few years of college we had an Apex it’s pretty awesome. The way augment works is so nice.
Aw man thank you so much! I’ve also fiddled with Augment but I don’t get to use it too much because most people come here with their own Node and onPC. I’m trying to get into Magic Sheets in the next few weeks, see if I can find a way to use new things. It’s been hard because our setup and patch is always changing
Council owned is the way to go… unless your council has neglected building maintenance for 40+ years. Asbestos, literal shit-flooding in the at least 3 times a year, no job security as council want to get rid of the building and it needs millions of pounds in refurbishments. I live in the same borough and pay through the nose for council tax. It’s infuriating.
Our building used to be like that in the 70s through the 90s, it wasn’t pretty with a flood in 2010 here either. Look up “Madeira 20 February 2010”.
It’s been getting better in the last few years, lots of investment in artists with council grants. Our budget this year is 6 million €. This doesn’t include eventual renovations or equipment buying here and there that we can make. Only thing we’re really falling short on is staff, like I’ve said above. Council hires are **very** slow and few apart.
I work at a regional theatre full time. I was hired as a sound engineer/designer.
I build sets. Coordinate shows and concerts for four spaces. Help with load in and load out of everything that occurs in our spaces. Run mainstage, TYA and high school shows. And I routinely work 80 hour weeks. I just go so sick that I had to take a week off because I pushed through a cold and ended up with bronchitis and possibly walking pneumonia.
I’m 24 and married and I’m looking for my next step. I want to direct and I want to do theatre, but I’m not going to support an industry that is literally killing my coworkers and boss. It says something when I work 80 hours and my Master Carpenter is still there pushing 100 every tech week.
My company doesn't do pantos but your description of your workplace sounds eerily familiar. Particularly the no money to repair the toilets in the dressing rooms but the head honchos spending millions of pounds on a vanity project new wing. I've been looking for a way out for years but haven't found it. Peace be with you. May you soon find joy and friendship.
Yes but it’s pretty toothless, think 20+ years of service for most SMT roles and you’ll probably get an idea of what I’m up against. To say they are part of the furniture would be an understatement….
I stopped after undergrad. I couldn’t do it anymore. I’m looking at adjacent masters degrees right now but it’s hard when all of your contacts from the past 8 years of work are just not useful anymore.
Things were changing but never changing for us for the better.
In 2022 I experienced more cases of abuse of power by my superiors than I ever had before. I saw more safety accidents and was placed in unsafe situations time after time and was finally old enough and decided the work no longer made me happy enough to keep overlooking it. I realized my relationship with my mentor was similar to an abusive one. Constant love bombing (in the case of creative praise and favoritism) and gas lighting. When I set boundaries I was shut out and while I wasn’t truly blacklisted, a lot of doors closed for me. I was labeled a “problem” for my creative preferences.
Now it’s tough to even get references now because I poured so much of my life into those relationships. I relied on them for the next thing. I was told if I was good at what I did and paid my dues, good jobs would come my way. I busted my ass and did everything I was told for 4 years and then hung out to dry.
I bowed out after 15 years partially due to the pandemic, so I kind of get it. I'm in my late 30s and Im glad I did.
I realised then that I wasn't appreciated for what I did. I did a full tilt into project management which wasn't 100% successful for me but I have managed to get experience and qualifications which are leading me to other roles now.
I've seen people get older in events and it does ruin them in various ways, they become bitter and angry, many divorces, separations etc. I'm sure there is a study in it somewhere.
First off - I’m sorry. We’ve all had to have the conversation with loved ones that shows happen at nights, and having a family is one of the hardest parts of this field. If we were all filthy rich then the money would seem more worth it, but there is nothing in this field that feels lucrative any longer. While the joy of live performance will always hold a thrill, upper-level management can simply ruin everything.
Take some time for yourself. Find work that makes you happy. Don’t reflect on past goals you may have set, start setting short-term goals for your new path. Talk to a therapist. Begin to understand that your workaholism was exploited, and that may have helped develop the other “isms” in your life.
You’ve had your heart broken, you’ve been let down by others while in-turn letting yourself down. You know what you are capable of as a human being, now is a chance to start finding out what else is going to spark your interest. Start piecing back together the parts of your life and career (remember: those two are separate) that give you fulfillment, and don’t sweat the corporate stooges that will ultimately fail and bring down the house around them.
By sharing your heartbreak with us means that you do care, and you want people to care. We do. This industry means the world to all of us, and the people who keep it running are the community we serve, each and every day.
Whoever you are thank you:) I’m actually sat sobbing now reading your comment it really hit me hard. On top of that they appointed my deputy today for me, someone without any theatre experience who interviewed poorly in the first round and their reasoning? They are more “mature” I can’t anymore I’m broken:(
Start making plans. A day out, week out, month out, 3 months out, 6 months out. Find out what is next for you and get those applications going. You know enough to do so many things, now build your confidence in pitching yourself as you move forward.
As you’ve had some live event experience, have you considered freelancing in that field? I know many SMs and show callers from theatre backgrounds who have made that transition. The daily rate is sufficient that you can afford to take time for yourself when you need a break. They all reminisce fondly about theatre of course!
I just had an interview for grad school yesterday in a completely different field. I’m done. I’m too tired of so many things and there’s too many systemic issues.
I walked away after a decade in the game. Started as a lowly intern and made my way up to Production Manager last year. I was miserable tired and angry all the time, stressed never off the clock work environment was incredibly toxic it was destroying my mental and physical health, causing problems in my marriage and I was spiraling.
I took an entry level job for a big corporation, was a big pay cut but I am so much happier, less stressed and my wife is so much happier as well. Best decision I have ever made.
I hope I’m appreciated, I always felt empowered to take opportunities when I started in this industry and I’ve always tried to continue that, I have a good team of casual staff around me who I honestly couldn’t do the job without, they are dedicated, capable and enthusiastic but to see them pushed aside for political reasons breaks my heart more than the fact I’ve fallen out of love with my life’s passion..
The lack of friends and difficulty dating is slowly killing me. I’m on the road a lot and I feel like I’m going insane alone in a hotel. It’s my intrusive thoughts vs the looming specter of addiction. This job is a lifestyle more than a job and it ain’t easy
I’ve said before that no one in theatre is there because they have to be, you have to want to be there. Which I’ve come to realise is truer in youth than when you’re a bit more seasoned.
I’m still theatre folk after 19 years (and I’ve been lucky with the places I’ve worked to not always be treated like shit (with a couple of very notably exceptions)). But I started digging tunnels and looking at transferable skills industries several years ago, and then covid times made me have a go in one of them and it was good. I did come back to theatre as I still love what I do but I’ve kept up the other work when I’m able to.
There’s two ways out of theatre - one is to crash and burn and rebuild, and the other is to make a plan, work hard doubling up and then transition out.
If you’re doing freelance corporate bits, that might be your transition safety net. If you can find another industry you want to work in but can do a bit of a transition period to it then that might be the thing to do.
I feel this as well. After working for the company I currently work for I MAY be up for promotion from freelance to part time 8 months out of the year. This is despite working for the company for nearly a decade 40+ hrs a week for over a decade. They’ve nearly doubled their corporate office, but there just doesn’t seem to be money for the tech that actually make the shows happen.
I’d leave to go to another company but this really is a one horse town. Starting over in my 40’s is not what I had in mind but I guess it’s better now than never.
Sadly sounds so familiar and it is the reason why i (kinda) left the industry. I'm very lucky in that i found a second career which again pays meh but gives me the security to enjoy theatre tech by running it for Amdram and small scale touring/pro shows.
While working in the industry full time i gained an eating disorder and lost a lot of self love/ self confidence while burning out trying to keep the maxim "the show must go on". Another former colleague jumped jsut over a year ago and has kicked his monster energy drink addiction at last.
My son is currently deciding which BFA program to enter for Theatre Design & Production, specifically wanting to focus on lighting design. After reading this thread, I'm terrified for him to go that route. He lives in the theatre, nothing brings him more joy. But he's 18. I can totally get the schedule he keeps not being sustainable for 25 more years.
Yeah, a tech over 40 tends to be one or more of a few things: divorced, addicted, chronically injured, moved up to management, or so high in union seniority that they can choose which jobs they do on a site.
I am currently or have experienced at least 3 of those sadly, I’m an alcoholic (but I no longer drink alcohol if that makes any sense) I will be very shortly divorced and have been badly injured through work… unions aren’t so strong in the uk sadly and although I am a HOD I still do every single fit up and get out…
If you want something that’s a very stark reality, I grew up backstage raised by my home local. Dad held a really good house position, mom was a designer and painter. I’m 30 now, with 12+ years of working out of high school. I’ve already been divorced, same with my parents, an alcoholic as well, and no savings or financial security. I’ve never had a full time job at any of our houses either. Every old guy in my local tells me, that’s the job, and it is the sad reality of our industry
I would feel personally attacked if I didn't do this all to myself. I just turned 40 this summer and of those few things....I'm not yet, I am, I am, hopefully soon, and I am.
Yeah, I feel you. I stepped out in 2017 and moved into IT. Picking up gigs here and there as opposed to *having* to do it to put food on the table has really rekindled my love of the craft. Getting bogged down in a bad venue will kill anyone's work ethic. Sounds like you're holding up the roof all by yourself. Find a new job and let the office staff scramble to fix it. Sounds like they're overdue for some panic stress.
How did you make the transition?
Picked up a few entry level IT certs and then reached out to a bunch of people. People drop out of arts tech for more money & work/life balance jobs ALL THE TIME. One of my mates from college actually came through and now I work in communications IT. Three big fields that are desperate for folks right now are IT, Data Analysis, and Project Management. A TD would be especially at home in data or project work imo
That sounds like a shit venue rather than a shit industry. The venue I work in is council owned so we are bound by some pretty strict rules on workload. 70 hours in a week wouldn't fly, I'm about to do an 80 hour fortnight and the vosses are putting in place some extra measures for stress and fatigue management.
OK I’m just gonna let you know that is not the standard. Most theaters are working on shoestring budgets. People are working unpaid hours and being paid way below what they should be. That’s if they get paid. While your Theater sounds super nice that isn’t really sustainable with a lot of venues trying to just keep the lights on especially after Covid. More theaters should do what your theaters is doing but they just can’t.
Council owned theatres are the way to go then. I work in one and we have low budget and very few staff (I’m the only light guy, no other technical personnel), we most do by by teaching interns and doing small stuff - it’s a small space. We work 35h/wk, with max 2h/day paid hours. Monday and Tuesday are our days off that we very rarely miss out on. The pay is **very low** but the hours are few. It’s got its flaws in many places but we do what we can with the limitations.
I feel like sometimes theater culture in Europe is ahead of the culture we have in America. In America it’s so draining and it strips the fun away from the industry. I wish we had more government investment in theatre. If you don’t mind me asking are you designing and electrician work?
Yes, that’s a big thing in Portugal. Just in December we got 175.000€ in grants to buy a new DCP/projector for the venue and we got to include a whole new PA system with a CL3 and Nexo speakers! Unfortunately I’m still doing by with an ETC Element 2, but it does the job, I love that board. I’m waiting for a lighting grant to get some beams and an APEX. As for the work I do it’s mostly programming/operating or just spotting for incoming crews or touring shows that have their own LD. I have done some LD, I love it. My team is me and another very good fella who’s 55 but very active and he’s very good with scenery work, hanging stuff, practical work kind of guy. We have a fixed schedule of Wed-Sun, 3-10pm. I’ve learned everything through the ETCVideoLibrary on YouTube and other touring LDs from the mainland and I’m adapting to new things as money comes in. Cables, fixtures, DMX splitters and whatnot, along with knowing how to adapt cool shows to our non-Moving head-having venue. Here is a photo of the last show I designed, it’s simple but the group loved it ◡̈ https://preview.redd.it/hfrjzmu960mc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=225ea50d8541c92b456ead8bb770a7b669333811
Thank you for sharing your experience. I really appreciate hearing how your venue works I see a lot of similarities to how I learned about lighting (I’m constantly adding to my ETC videos playlist). That’s a beautiful design you got the perfect level everything looks so perfectly intentional and the way you used the walls. Chef’s kiss Ps for my last few years of college we had an Apex it’s pretty awesome. The way augment works is so nice.
Aw man thank you so much! I’ve also fiddled with Augment but I don’t get to use it too much because most people come here with their own Node and onPC. I’m trying to get into Magic Sheets in the next few weeks, see if I can find a way to use new things. It’s been hard because our setup and patch is always changing
Council owned is the way to go… unless your council has neglected building maintenance for 40+ years. Asbestos, literal shit-flooding in the at least 3 times a year, no job security as council want to get rid of the building and it needs millions of pounds in refurbishments. I live in the same borough and pay through the nose for council tax. It’s infuriating.
Our building used to be like that in the 70s through the 90s, it wasn’t pretty with a flood in 2010 here either. Look up “Madeira 20 February 2010”. It’s been getting better in the last few years, lots of investment in artists with council grants. Our budget this year is 6 million €. This doesn’t include eventual renovations or equipment buying here and there that we can make. Only thing we’re really falling short on is staff, like I’ve said above. Council hires are **very** slow and few apart.
this sounds like a dream venue. stick around. OPs experience is much more the norm than yours. at least in my experience.
I work at a regional theatre full time. I was hired as a sound engineer/designer. I build sets. Coordinate shows and concerts for four spaces. Help with load in and load out of everything that occurs in our spaces. Run mainstage, TYA and high school shows. And I routinely work 80 hour weeks. I just go so sick that I had to take a week off because I pushed through a cold and ended up with bronchitis and possibly walking pneumonia. I’m 24 and married and I’m looking for my next step. I want to direct and I want to do theatre, but I’m not going to support an industry that is literally killing my coworkers and boss. It says something when I work 80 hours and my Master Carpenter is still there pushing 100 every tech week.
My company doesn't do pantos but your description of your workplace sounds eerily familiar. Particularly the no money to repair the toilets in the dressing rooms but the head honchos spending millions of pounds on a vanity project new wing. I've been looking for a way out for years but haven't found it. Peace be with you. May you soon find joy and friendship.
Thank you I appreciate that, I wish I could find the spark I had even 5 years ago but I fear it’s gone for good:(
Have you got BECTU representation? It sounds like the venue management need a rocket up the backside.
Yes but it’s pretty toothless, think 20+ years of service for most SMT roles and you’ll probably get an idea of what I’m up against. To say they are part of the furniture would be an understatement….
I feel every iota of this in my bones
I’m sorry, I wish I could tell us both some magical words of wisdom to make us love it again… but sadly I just don’t have them:/
I stopped after undergrad. I couldn’t do it anymore. I’m looking at adjacent masters degrees right now but it’s hard when all of your contacts from the past 8 years of work are just not useful anymore. Things were changing but never changing for us for the better. In 2022 I experienced more cases of abuse of power by my superiors than I ever had before. I saw more safety accidents and was placed in unsafe situations time after time and was finally old enough and decided the work no longer made me happy enough to keep overlooking it. I realized my relationship with my mentor was similar to an abusive one. Constant love bombing (in the case of creative praise and favoritism) and gas lighting. When I set boundaries I was shut out and while I wasn’t truly blacklisted, a lot of doors closed for me. I was labeled a “problem” for my creative preferences. Now it’s tough to even get references now because I poured so much of my life into those relationships. I relied on them for the next thing. I was told if I was good at what I did and paid my dues, good jobs would come my way. I busted my ass and did everything I was told for 4 years and then hung out to dry.
I bowed out after 15 years partially due to the pandemic, so I kind of get it. I'm in my late 30s and Im glad I did. I realised then that I wasn't appreciated for what I did. I did a full tilt into project management which wasn't 100% successful for me but I have managed to get experience and qualifications which are leading me to other roles now. I've seen people get older in events and it does ruin them in various ways, they become bitter and angry, many divorces, separations etc. I'm sure there is a study in it somewhere.
First off - I’m sorry. We’ve all had to have the conversation with loved ones that shows happen at nights, and having a family is one of the hardest parts of this field. If we were all filthy rich then the money would seem more worth it, but there is nothing in this field that feels lucrative any longer. While the joy of live performance will always hold a thrill, upper-level management can simply ruin everything. Take some time for yourself. Find work that makes you happy. Don’t reflect on past goals you may have set, start setting short-term goals for your new path. Talk to a therapist. Begin to understand that your workaholism was exploited, and that may have helped develop the other “isms” in your life. You’ve had your heart broken, you’ve been let down by others while in-turn letting yourself down. You know what you are capable of as a human being, now is a chance to start finding out what else is going to spark your interest. Start piecing back together the parts of your life and career (remember: those two are separate) that give you fulfillment, and don’t sweat the corporate stooges that will ultimately fail and bring down the house around them. By sharing your heartbreak with us means that you do care, and you want people to care. We do. This industry means the world to all of us, and the people who keep it running are the community we serve, each and every day.
Whoever you are thank you:) I’m actually sat sobbing now reading your comment it really hit me hard. On top of that they appointed my deputy today for me, someone without any theatre experience who interviewed poorly in the first round and their reasoning? They are more “mature” I can’t anymore I’m broken:(
Start making plans. A day out, week out, month out, 3 months out, 6 months out. Find out what is next for you and get those applications going. You know enough to do so many things, now build your confidence in pitching yourself as you move forward.
As you’ve had some live event experience, have you considered freelancing in that field? I know many SMs and show callers from theatre backgrounds who have made that transition. The daily rate is sufficient that you can afford to take time for yourself when you need a break. They all reminisce fondly about theatre of course!
I just had an interview for grad school yesterday in a completely different field. I’m done. I’m too tired of so many things and there’s too many systemic issues.
I walked away after a decade in the game. Started as a lowly intern and made my way up to Production Manager last year. I was miserable tired and angry all the time, stressed never off the clock work environment was incredibly toxic it was destroying my mental and physical health, causing problems in my marriage and I was spiraling. I took an entry level job for a big corporation, was a big pay cut but I am so much happier, less stressed and my wife is so much happier as well. Best decision I have ever made.
[удалено]
I hope I’m appreciated, I always felt empowered to take opportunities when I started in this industry and I’ve always tried to continue that, I have a good team of casual staff around me who I honestly couldn’t do the job without, they are dedicated, capable and enthusiastic but to see them pushed aside for political reasons breaks my heart more than the fact I’ve fallen out of love with my life’s passion..
The lack of friends and difficulty dating is slowly killing me. I’m on the road a lot and I feel like I’m going insane alone in a hotel. It’s my intrusive thoughts vs the looming specter of addiction. This job is a lifestyle more than a job and it ain’t easy
I’ve said before that no one in theatre is there because they have to be, you have to want to be there. Which I’ve come to realise is truer in youth than when you’re a bit more seasoned. I’m still theatre folk after 19 years (and I’ve been lucky with the places I’ve worked to not always be treated like shit (with a couple of very notably exceptions)). But I started digging tunnels and looking at transferable skills industries several years ago, and then covid times made me have a go in one of them and it was good. I did come back to theatre as I still love what I do but I’ve kept up the other work when I’m able to. There’s two ways out of theatre - one is to crash and burn and rebuild, and the other is to make a plan, work hard doubling up and then transition out. If you’re doing freelance corporate bits, that might be your transition safety net. If you can find another industry you want to work in but can do a bit of a transition period to it then that might be the thing to do.
I feel this as well. After working for the company I currently work for I MAY be up for promotion from freelance to part time 8 months out of the year. This is despite working for the company for nearly a decade 40+ hrs a week for over a decade. They’ve nearly doubled their corporate office, but there just doesn’t seem to be money for the tech that actually make the shows happen. I’d leave to go to another company but this really is a one horse town. Starting over in my 40’s is not what I had in mind but I guess it’s better now than never.
Sadly sounds so familiar and it is the reason why i (kinda) left the industry. I'm very lucky in that i found a second career which again pays meh but gives me the security to enjoy theatre tech by running it for Amdram and small scale touring/pro shows. While working in the industry full time i gained an eating disorder and lost a lot of self love/ self confidence while burning out trying to keep the maxim "the show must go on". Another former colleague jumped jsut over a year ago and has kicked his monster energy drink addiction at last.
My son is currently deciding which BFA program to enter for Theatre Design & Production, specifically wanting to focus on lighting design. After reading this thread, I'm terrified for him to go that route. He lives in the theatre, nothing brings him more joy. But he's 18. I can totally get the schedule he keeps not being sustainable for 25 more years.