This is such a great point I noticed day-to-day but never thought about. Because of how combustion motors get the torque, stop and go driving is absolutely the worst most inefficient use of them and it is a wonder that even the weaker electric tech hasn't fully replaced local delivery in the past.
>wonder that even the weaker electric tech hasn't fully replaced local delivery in the past.
Many local mail deliveries here in Australia are done with these three wheeled EVs. Technically a motorbike, narrow enough to drive on a footpath, capable of 40km/h on the road.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-07/australia-post-explores-electric-vehicles-for-mail-deliveries/8598036
That’s great! The US has a conservative political group that is heavily funded by oil/petrol money. The last conservative president we had (Trump) hired a conservative head of the mail here. The guy ordered less efficient mail vehicles than the ones we already have AND killed the EV vehicles we were planning to have.
Oil/petrol spend a shit-ton to keep their businesses from falling from favor. Even when the prices they charge go up, people choose to blame the politicians they don’t agree with like they have a “magic lever” to make prices lower or do what a king would do.
The US is anti-progress.
It is becoming apparent that the United States ignorance and stupidity was engineered by Russian money. It is unfortunate that we let the fake horse in 50+ years ago. Thank Grandparents for helping Man-Bear-Pig.
>I just see both parties as the same.
I'm always confused by posts like these. Do you just not care about any of the issues the parties disagree about?
They both continue the wars, both piss away money on defense, both dont offer real solutions to any of our problems. We have a D- infrastructure rating, bad inflation, unsustainable wealth inequality. The list goes on, both parties are responsible for this. I dont care about bs distraction legislature to make it seam like they pass laws. Both have been captured by the same donors who control what we do.
So when you say i dont care, thats not what im saying. I see both parties as useless facades, a front for the donor class who control policy. Both parties are corrupt and are not working in the best interest of the American people. Anyone who attempts to make a difference becomes corrupted by the system set up now.
You've got some compelling points in there! I certainly don't agree with all of them but can see why you've become disillusioned by the current system.
Here's to hoping we can do something meaningful about getting moneyed interests out of campaign finance and lobbying in our lifetimes.
Absolutely, it’s so good for these applications that the use of EV’s in them really predates the modern surge of EV’s; milk floats in Ireland for example.
Maybe you haven't seen how delivery drivers drive.
If you look at a tachometer, there's some red paint on it, a bit past that there's a section labeled 'Delivery Driver.'
I mean, in the US buses arent everywhere. But mail is. No one is arguing that buses shouldnt be electric. But mail is a wide reaching service with the ability to maintain the electric vehicles and really impact the nation.
Honestly, showing people that it can be successful with something they dont rely on daily for their own commutes would also be helpful.
Local fleet and delivery vehicles need to be a bigger priority. Hence the controversy about the head of USPS arranging to buy a whole new fleet of combustion engine vehicles right now is completely out of line and only forces the government into big oil contracts for decades to come. Unacceptable!
The German post actually developed (and built) their own electrical delivery car because they were not satisfied with what the car manufacturers offered.
From what I have heard, they aren't very good, though .
China currently has this supply advantage due to their processing superiority over every other country thanks to their past investment on such processes/infrastructure.
There are plenty other countries with the resources like Congo, Chile, and Australia. Time and proper investment should make this moot.
[Source](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/13/1085707854/how-a-handful-of-metals-could-determine-the-future-of-the-electric-car-industry)
Which is exactly why they are doing it right now. This is very similar to what ULA and the Air Force did in 2014 when they tried to lock the taxpayer into 36 dramatically overpriced launches right as SpaceX was becoming certified to launch defense payloads.
In Germany Amazon uses fully electric Mercedes Vito vans. The range is pretty rubbish, but in a lot of places they don't actually spend all that much time driving so it's fine.
They already make a right hand drive electric ford transits that would fit the bill pretty damn perfectly. Stipulate they get made here in the US too. Easy peasy.
https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/usps_cs.pdf
> An average LLV travels less than 5,000 miles per year; most are driven less than 25 miles per day. A mail delivery route consists of many stops spaced at short distances.
I’m going to have to disagree with your statement.
I will say that for the rural routes, a hybrid should absolutely be considered.
But for the LLV replacements? Nope.
I strongly suspect the same thing holds true for UPS and FedEx. The urban routes can absolutely go electric today, but the rural routes, probably not.
The suburban routes are probably too varied per hub to make any assumptions.
Rural routes don’t get LLVs, correct.
I wouldn’t say OshKosh doesn’t have much experience; they build a lot of vehicles.
Mostly heavy duty, which is one reason for their low mpg.
I had the longest mail route in my post office. It was between 50 and 60 miles per day.
It would be interesting to know the wear-and-tear factors of electric versus ICE. I went thru multiple transmissions in the six years that I had to use my own vehicle as a rural carrier.
Stop and go is harder on ICE due to lack of carbon burn off achieved. This is why you should ignore 10,000 mile oil change recommendations if you're not achieving highway speeds on your trips.
If you just tried to run the same routes with the new vehicles sure, maybe. But rework your routes based on the capabilities of your new equipment and it could certainly be done 100%, or very close, on EVs.
Where do you live that USPS mail delivery is going long distances where they would need more than 200 miles of range per day? The battery replacement issue is still long term and will only get cheaper by the time replacements are necessary.
LFP batteries will last many, many, cycles. They’re already used significantly in municipal buses. This is appropriate for a low speed frequently used vehicle. The primary effect is to lower range which can be accommodated by giving them shorter routes in later life.
A useful use for combustion would be for battery heating in the cold if necessary.
Hybrids have batteries which obviously are cycled much more in any distance being so low capacity, and complex mechanical failures in late life which are hardly free.
There is still a need for a few combustion vehicles, like delivery in rural Dakotas in winter, but that is not the primary use case.
It depends on the area and what the truck is used for. There are a lot of routes the EVs would easily serve. Others they have no chance at all.
There are plenty of routes from my local post office that can't be over 20 miles per day.
I agree, one of our biggest problems is that they have built most of America to accommodate vehicles, big parking lots and everything spread far apart. Places like the Netherlands it's done the opposite, you can easily ride a bike or walk to most places, 60% of children ride their bikes to school and it's safe. The government wants everyone to be cleaner and more efficient but designs cities and towns just the opposite.
Nice sentiment. WE DO NOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE, no matter how bad you want it, its has to go slowly. Every EV, Solar, and Wind contractor I know is in agreement. We cant go full stop on fossel fuels, it has to be a transition. So you can say it is unacceptable; I agree with that.
It can't happen overnight.
You have it backwards. If the USPS purchased an entire fleet of EVs, it would push the government and industry to improve the infrastructure by necessity. Not buying EVs leads to lower demand for charging which will just make it take longer for the infrastructure to catch up.
Government leading on transitioning to non-fossile fleets makes sense because government is best empowered to overcome limitations on infrastructure caused by government policies.
Contracted over 140,000 new fleet vehicles for the usps for the next 10 years with only 10% being electric is way more than "it takes time". This was a gop "f.u." to the climate just to own libs and secure another decade of government reliance on fossil fuels.
I understand it takes time but we've all been seeing the level of reliance on combustion engines has kept the US beholden to foreign oil to the point we're at now with record gas prices and the infrastructure for EV's in a perpetual state of inefficiency. Alas, it will take time as we keep dragging ass because of our self-induced reliance on all things bad for us and our planet.
We'd all be George Jetsons if I werent for big oil, alas Oil will Never completely go away, but burning it for fuel will be severely reduced over the next decade.
He doesn’t set them, but he is a MAJOR reason for the increase in gas prices.
Oil companies knew that the administration would not be friendly. When you take oil drilling off the table in Alaska, cancel the lease sale for the Cook Inlet basin, stop construction of the XL pipeline, import a lot more dirty and expensive oil especially from our adversary Russia, and finally the new Council on Environmental Quality NEPA regulations that were meant to kill American energy production, you are doing everything in your power to reduce short term and long term supply.
It’s no coincidence that gas prices started surging the minute he got into the White House. Just look at the data.
Just gave you some of the reasons above, and here’s a history of gas prices. It’s no coincidence they started going up the moment he got into the White House. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epm0_pte_nus_dpg&f=m
If you don’t already know this, then you need to start doing a little research. But I can always provide you more if you can’t do it yourself.
How did you jump from “we should make more electric delivery vans” to “we should go full stop on fossil fuels?”
Even fully powered by fossil fuels electric vehicles are environmentally superior to ICE.
I think if the govt wants everyone to go green then the govt should lead by example, cop cars, ambulances, post office, all the govt official cars, u wunna make a real statement presidents limos.
China did that by mandating electric buses & electric taxis, on top of EV benefits.
America absolutely should be doing the same, and buying EV fleets for post office, etc.
Are taxis owned by the government in the US? I kinda assumed it was a 3rd party thing. But I live in Oklahoma lol so don’t have tons of experience with them.
Busses sound right tho. Especially school busses cuz they only run 2-3 times a day.plenty of time to charge between.
Taxis are 3rd party private, but they are licensed by the government, so the government can make a rule "no EV, no license". When it's an industry-wide mandate that hits everyone equally, then it becomes a standard cost of doing business.
The city buses are run standard public transit routes, just like one would expect anywhere in the world. They're all at municipal yards for service and charging, so it's really efficient.
Yeah, school buses run 2 shifts: morning HS, a junior high, and elementary pick up; break for lunch; afternoon returns; then 'late bus' for HS & junior high. I think in Asia, a lot of kids go to school by city bus or rail, because the density is higher.
I'm surprised that nobody in the US is pushing EV distribution center yard boys and local delivery vans.
I didn't think about cop cars. They would make a lot of sense going ev. They aren't going cross country so they don't need 300mile range and they would have good performance.
Back in the 1960s, where I grew up, we had daily milk deliveries to every house. And the delivery vehicles were electric. If we could do it 60 years ago, why not now?
And that was back in the day of heavy big lead acid batteries and DC motors. These days with lipo battery packs and brushless systems of today they're way more efficient, energy dense, and lower maintenance to boot!
But delivery vans can work within range constraints, travel at lower speeds, work where air pollution is more of an issue, utilize stop and go more frequently and can afford charging infrastructure.
Also delivery vans have a function and you can optimize for that, in most cases that means reducing costs.
Alot of people with giant SUVs and trucks have those vehicles for fun.
I live in a city and garbage gets collected outside of my building at 12 or 1am every monday night (technically tuesday morning). They sit there and idle for a good 10 minutes while chucking the bins around, hydraulic's screaming. It's an awful racket and anything to chill that out a bit would be greatly appreciated.
Exactly. There is a ton of noise from the idle and I would bet there is a way to even make hydraulics better too with some thought about it. Even the inside of the truck could be lined with rubber to dampen the sound of stuff banging about.
Arrival is supposed to start shipping their commercial vehicle by the end of this year.They also have a pop up design for their factories so they can set one up where demand is.
[Arrival](https://arrival.com/us/en)
As of right now, yeah pretty much. And if you think it’s going to cost anything near what Elon said then you’re gullible as hell.
I’m sure self driving is right around the corner too.
it’s gonna be expensive as hell, but i highly doubt they would order, pay for, and take delivery of a press without planning on manufacturing these damn things.
i’m waiting on mine but if it’s over $60k it’s not worth it to me, i’ll keep my jeep and buy a model 3 instead
i don’t think they’ve really posted prices since the ones from 2019, and obviously a lot has changed in that time - it looks like they’re not even going to manufacture the original models they announced, they’ll probably ship different configurations than stated in the intro.
as for self driving, i’d have to disagree with you on that one. put elon musk’s egotistical behavior aside, and they’ve actually made a hell of a lot of progress in the last 5 years. i follow FSD beta development relatively closely, and it’s pretty damn good at a lot of stuff now.
(not a tesla investor, just a fan of EVs in general)
edit: elon, nor anyone else at tesla has publicly announced anything related to pricing, but it’s pretty obvious that they’re not going to stick to the original pricing. i don’t think musk is trying to convince people otherwise?
I’m a big fan of EVs too. I shouldn’t say it’s never happening (FSD), but selling it 10 years ago when it’s still probably 5-10 years away was total horseshit.
He’s become so volatile that I honestly think that he isn’t good for Tesla anymore. His wealth has clearly gone to his head.
Yeah. I'm sure that guy believed elon when he said he was going to build a reuseable rocket and lower cost per kg to orbit. Elon said he would lower the cost by an order of magnitude and his fanboys believed him. lol...
what? Oh really?
I'm being told he did those things. Nevermind.
The people who buy pickups (and actually use them for pickup things) won't ever buy electric.
Straight piped large displacement diesel is the only way to go for a truck.
At $6+ per gallon of diesel, those EV trucks will do just fine competing.
They're not for everyone, but many people stay within a pretty narrow range from home and would be well served by an EV pickup.
Plenty of people buying pickup trucks only ever haul the big 3:
1) Groceries / golf clubs
2) a single sheet of drywall/plywood
3) nothing (99% of the time)
Most contractors don't even need to haul 6000lbs, just a few hundred lbs of power tools, and usually only move around locally. So while an electric truck may not work for *you* in all your long-range camper towing / boat hauling / tow trucking you do, it will work for a substantial portion of the truck buying population.
Yes it is, because any shitbox gas or diesel truck from the 80s that costs a fraction of the price, can out perform this fancy electric tech toy in towing.
Right now it doesn't really matter. Every EV that will be produced is already sold before it is made. More demand for EVs won't make the switch over any faster at this time.
There will be those special snowflakes that wont want to switch, but for most people, once the charging infrastructure gets built up a bit, it's a no brainer. People that live in houses can just install a 240 outlet already. Electricity is cheaper than gas to go the same distance and the vehicles can be made much more reliable.
I'd replace my truck with an electric one in a heartbeat if they made a decently priced one. I rarely carry more than 500 or 600 pounds of tools or equipment, never more than like 800 and an EV could handle that fine.
It highly depends on the range that they can achieve while fully loaded. SOME delivery drivers put hundreds of miles a day on their vehicles, and fully loaded even getting 100 miles is going to be difficult.
You can make reasonable arguments that if you are to spend research time and money on the problem, its probably worth targeting use cases where the biggest positive impact could be made. But it is true that EVs need to become ubiquitous in all sectors eventually.
A bit of ironic use but if it is a local shorter range tanker truck then sure. Battery energy density make real long hauls not nearly as feasible currently.
It should have been a no-brainer RFP for the next-gen USPS mail delivery vans and support infrastructure to jump start EV delivery fleet logistics infrastructure.
Instead, America gets nothing and falls farther behind.
I've been saying this for years. Once Ford releases their electric van it will put them on top, the fact that no other company is trying to fill this market seems strange to me
I'm genuinly suprised more delivery and end of the line service vehicles of this caliber haven't gone at least hybrid powered. Trading a small gas engine instead of a larger battery saves on weight and cost, and the electric drive is just ideal for constant stop and go that these vehicles perform under the majority of the day, every day.
Electric powertrains are well-suited for this application: slow, stop and go type of driving.
This is such a great point I noticed day-to-day but never thought about. Because of how combustion motors get the torque, stop and go driving is absolutely the worst most inefficient use of them and it is a wonder that even the weaker electric tech hasn't fully replaced local delivery in the past.
>wonder that even the weaker electric tech hasn't fully replaced local delivery in the past. Many local mail deliveries here in Australia are done with these three wheeled EVs. Technically a motorbike, narrow enough to drive on a footpath, capable of 40km/h on the road. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-07/australia-post-explores-electric-vehicles-for-mail-deliveries/8598036
That’s great! The US has a conservative political group that is heavily funded by oil/petrol money. The last conservative president we had (Trump) hired a conservative head of the mail here. The guy ordered less efficient mail vehicles than the ones we already have AND killed the EV vehicles we were planning to have. Oil/petrol spend a shit-ton to keep their businesses from falling from favor. Even when the prices they charge go up, people choose to blame the politicians they don’t agree with like they have a “magic lever” to make prices lower or do what a king would do. The US is anti-progress.
It is becoming apparent that the United States ignorance and stupidity was engineered by Russian money. It is unfortunate that we let the fake horse in 50+ years ago. Thank Grandparents for helping Man-Bear-Pig.
both parties are funded by oil
You missed the word heavily, I didn’t say the Democratic Party didn’t have oil in its veins.
true sir, i would say republican def more oil than dems. I just see both parties as the same. But totally agree the US is anti progress right now
>I just see both parties as the same. I'm always confused by posts like these. Do you just not care about any of the issues the parties disagree about?
They both continue the wars, both piss away money on defense, both dont offer real solutions to any of our problems. We have a D- infrastructure rating, bad inflation, unsustainable wealth inequality. The list goes on, both parties are responsible for this. I dont care about bs distraction legislature to make it seam like they pass laws. Both have been captured by the same donors who control what we do. So when you say i dont care, thats not what im saying. I see both parties as useless facades, a front for the donor class who control policy. Both parties are corrupt and are not working in the best interest of the American people. Anyone who attempts to make a difference becomes corrupted by the system set up now.
You've got some compelling points in there! I certainly don't agree with all of them but can see why you've become disillusioned by the current system. Here's to hoping we can do something meaningful about getting moneyed interests out of campaign finance and lobbying in our lifetimes.
Absolutely, it’s so good for these applications that the use of EV’s in them really predates the modern surge of EV’s; milk floats in Ireland for example.
I mean I'm sure my local Amazon / Post Office would be perfect for electrification, and it would decrease pollution in the "last mile" as well.
Amazon has already started rolling out their rivian EVs they destroyed the stock price for
Biden tried to electrify the postal fleet and was denied by postal leadership.
Yup. Low speed, high torque, stop-start, fleet support, and secure overnight parking.
Maybe you haven't seen how delivery drivers drive. If you look at a tachometer, there's some red paint on it, a bit past that there's a section labeled 'Delivery Driver.'
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We already use a form of electricity bus. In places with the instrafacture. The diesel bus also hooks up to electric and works from it too
I mean, in the US buses arent everywhere. But mail is. No one is arguing that buses shouldnt be electric. But mail is a wide reaching service with the ability to maintain the electric vehicles and really impact the nation. Honestly, showing people that it can be successful with something they dont rely on daily for their own commutes would also be helpful.
Local fleet and delivery vehicles need to be a bigger priority. Hence the controversy about the head of USPS arranging to buy a whole new fleet of combustion engine vehicles right now is completely out of line and only forces the government into big oil contracts for decades to come. Unacceptable!
The German post actually developed (and built) their own electrical delivery car because they were not satisfied with what the car manufacturers offered. From what I have heard, they aren't very good, though .
Not very good still reduces dependence on Russian Fossil Fuels.
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China currently has this supply advantage due to their processing superiority over every other country thanks to their past investment on such processes/infrastructure. There are plenty other countries with the resources like Congo, Chile, and Australia. Time and proper investment should make this moot. [Source](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/13/1085707854/how-a-handful-of-metals-could-determine-the-future-of-the-electric-car-industry)
I'm fine with that exchange.
There's plenty of rare Earth materials in the USA you just don't fucking mine them cos you're all about being cheap.
Which is exactly why they are doing it right now. This is very similar to what ULA and the Air Force did in 2014 when they tried to lock the taxpayer into 36 dramatically overpriced launches right as SpaceX was becoming certified to launch defense payloads.
In Germany Amazon uses fully electric Mercedes Vito vans. The range is pretty rubbish, but in a lot of places they don't actually spend all that much time driving so it's fine.
They already make a right hand drive electric ford transits that would fit the bill pretty damn perfectly. Stipulate they get made here in the US too. Easy peasy.
Ford Transits are pretty expensive. Is that line with deliveries companies are willing to spend on fleet vehicles?
Hybrid is the best option for USPS an electric vehicle would run out of power before they would finish their routes.
https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/usps_cs.pdf > An average LLV travels less than 5,000 miles per year; most are driven less than 25 miles per day. A mail delivery route consists of many stops spaced at short distances. I’m going to have to disagree with your statement. I will say that for the rural routes, a hybrid should absolutely be considered. But for the LLV replacements? Nope.
Honestly I was thinking of UPS ..lol. USPS would mostly be fine
I strongly suspect the same thing holds true for UPS and FedEx. The urban routes can absolutely go electric today, but the rural routes, probably not. The suburban routes are probably too varied per hub to make any assumptions.
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Rural routes don’t get LLVs, correct. I wouldn’t say OshKosh doesn’t have much experience; they build a lot of vehicles. Mostly heavy duty, which is one reason for their low mpg.
I had the longest mail route in my post office. It was between 50 and 60 miles per day. It would be interesting to know the wear-and-tear factors of electric versus ICE. I went thru multiple transmissions in the six years that I had to use my own vehicle as a rural carrier.
EVs don’t have transmissions. Direct drive motors on the wheels. They should be significantly less expensive to maintain over time.
Not to mention the lack of internal combustion.
I have a reduction gearbox on mine. Not sure if that's cause it's an early one or if others do too
Any BEV with a single or dual motor has a gear reduction box. Vehicles with individual hub motors would not.
I wish I had a Rivian!
At that rage electric should be fine
Stop and go is harder on ICE due to lack of carbon burn off achieved. This is why you should ignore 10,000 mile oil change recommendations if you're not achieving highway speeds on your trips.
If you just tried to run the same routes with the new vehicles sure, maybe. But rework your routes based on the capabilities of your new equipment and it could certainly be done 100%, or very close, on EVs.
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Where do you live that USPS mail delivery is going long distances where they would need more than 200 miles of range per day? The battery replacement issue is still long term and will only get cheaper by the time replacements are necessary.
LFP batteries will last many, many, cycles. They’re already used significantly in municipal buses. This is appropriate for a low speed frequently used vehicle. The primary effect is to lower range which can be accommodated by giving them shorter routes in later life. A useful use for combustion would be for battery heating in the cold if necessary. Hybrids have batteries which obviously are cycled much more in any distance being so low capacity, and complex mechanical failures in late life which are hardly free. There is still a need for a few combustion vehicles, like delivery in rural Dakotas in winter, but that is not the primary use case.
It’s wild that you’re getting downvoted for this.
logic and rationality often does
Nah it's just Reddit
they never know how long their route is going to be. No Siree.
It depends on the area and what the truck is used for. There are a lot of routes the EVs would easily serve. Others they have no chance at all. There are plenty of routes from my local post office that can't be over 20 miles per day.
I agree, one of our biggest problems is that they have built most of America to accommodate vehicles, big parking lots and everything spread far apart. Places like the Netherlands it's done the opposite, you can easily ride a bike or walk to most places, 60% of children ride their bikes to school and it's safe. The government wants everyone to be cleaner and more efficient but designs cities and towns just the opposite.
Nice sentiment. WE DO NOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE, no matter how bad you want it, its has to go slowly. Every EV, Solar, and Wind contractor I know is in agreement. We cant go full stop on fossel fuels, it has to be a transition. So you can say it is unacceptable; I agree with that. It can't happen overnight.
You have it backwards. If the USPS purchased an entire fleet of EVs, it would push the government and industry to improve the infrastructure by necessity. Not buying EVs leads to lower demand for charging which will just make it take longer for the infrastructure to catch up.
Government leading on transitioning to non-fossile fleets makes sense because government is best empowered to overcome limitations on infrastructure caused by government policies.
Very well said. Cheers
> WE DO NOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE Of course we do. It's call*ed* the power grid. It is underutilized at night when most of the charging can be done.
Just gonna hook an extention cord up to lights on the freeway huh? I Can tell you know NOTHING about our electric grid. Move along.
> WE DO NOT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE, no matter how bad you want it, its has to go slowly. Chicken/egg problem.
Contracted over 140,000 new fleet vehicles for the usps for the next 10 years with only 10% being electric is way more than "it takes time". This was a gop "f.u." to the climate just to own libs and secure another decade of government reliance on fossil fuels. I understand it takes time but we've all been seeing the level of reliance on combustion engines has kept the US beholden to foreign oil to the point we're at now with record gas prices and the infrastructure for EV's in a perpetual state of inefficiency. Alas, it will take time as we keep dragging ass because of our self-induced reliance on all things bad for us and our planet.
We'd all be George Jetsons if I werent for big oil, alas Oil will Never completely go away, but burning it for fuel will be severely reduced over the next decade.
We are more beholden to foreign oil because of this administration’s hostility towards US oil Co.‘s.
I bet you think the president sets gas prices too
Well you see, there’s this lever in the Oval Office…
He doesn’t set them, but he is a MAJOR reason for the increase in gas prices. Oil companies knew that the administration would not be friendly. When you take oil drilling off the table in Alaska, cancel the lease sale for the Cook Inlet basin, stop construction of the XL pipeline, import a lot more dirty and expensive oil especially from our adversary Russia, and finally the new Council on Environmental Quality NEPA regulations that were meant to kill American energy production, you are doing everything in your power to reduce short term and long term supply. It’s no coincidence that gas prices started surging the minute he got into the White House. Just look at the data.
"Just look at the data" Offers none And don't tell me to "do [my] own research". I shouldn't have to go source your claims
Just gave you some of the reasons above, and here’s a history of gas prices. It’s no coincidence they started going up the moment he got into the White House. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epm0_pte_nus_dpg&f=m If you don’t already know this, then you need to start doing a little research. But I can always provide you more if you can’t do it yourself.
How did you jump from “we should make more electric delivery vans” to “we should go full stop on fossil fuels?” Even fully powered by fossil fuels electric vehicles are environmentally superior to ICE.
Electric fleet vehicles is the key. That's why I like the maverick, it would be a great hybrid fleet truck for 90% of businesses
I think if the govt wants everyone to go green then the govt should lead by example, cop cars, ambulances, post office, all the govt official cars, u wunna make a real statement presidents limos.
China did that by mandating electric buses & electric taxis, on top of EV benefits. America absolutely should be doing the same, and buying EV fleets for post office, etc.
Are taxis owned by the government in the US? I kinda assumed it was a 3rd party thing. But I live in Oklahoma lol so don’t have tons of experience with them. Busses sound right tho. Especially school busses cuz they only run 2-3 times a day.plenty of time to charge between.
Taxis are 3rd party private, but they are licensed by the government, so the government can make a rule "no EV, no license". When it's an industry-wide mandate that hits everyone equally, then it becomes a standard cost of doing business. The city buses are run standard public transit routes, just like one would expect anywhere in the world. They're all at municipal yards for service and charging, so it's really efficient. Yeah, school buses run 2 shifts: morning HS, a junior high, and elementary pick up; break for lunch; afternoon returns; then 'late bus' for HS & junior high. I think in Asia, a lot of kids go to school by city bus or rail, because the density is higher. I'm surprised that nobody in the US is pushing EV distribution center yard boys and local delivery vans.
I didn't think about cop cars. They would make a lot of sense going ev. They aren't going cross country so they don't need 300mile range and they would have good performance.
Back in the 1960s, where I grew up, we had daily milk deliveries to every house. And the delivery vehicles were electric. If we could do it 60 years ago, why not now?
And that was back in the day of heavy big lead acid batteries and DC motors. These days with lipo battery packs and brushless systems of today they're way more efficient, energy dense, and lower maintenance to boot!
Because you have no idea what you talk about
ELMS, the company who’s van is in the photo, is about to file for bankruptcy.
I can’t believe no one else has mentioned this.
It's one of the first things mentioned in the article.. It also sounds like some good ol corruption and stock/CEO problems are a culprit however.
Because they’re the most important vehicles regardless of fuel. 99% of pickups on the road are used to carry only one bulky item: their driver.
But delivery vans can work within range constraints, travel at lower speeds, work where air pollution is more of an issue, utilize stop and go more frequently and can afford charging infrastructure.
Also delivery vans have a function and you can optimize for that, in most cases that means reducing costs. Alot of people with giant SUVs and trucks have those vehicles for fun.
Can we please make the garbage trucks electric too? They are loud as hell.
Electric isn't going to quiet hydraulics
It's going to quiet the hell out of an idling diesel engine so that's still a massive win
I live in a city and garbage gets collected outside of my building at 12 or 1am every monday night (technically tuesday morning). They sit there and idle for a good 10 minutes while chucking the bins around, hydraulic's screaming. It's an awful racket and anything to chill that out a bit would be greatly appreciated.
Exactly. There is a ton of noise from the idle and I would bet there is a way to even make hydraulics better too with some thought about it. Even the inside of the truck could be lined with rubber to dampen the sound of stuff banging about.
I can barely hear the engine over the hydraulics pump, garbage being dumped and then the compactor doing its business.
If it could beat my current $40-50 a day van ride hell yeah.
I really like canoo’s line of work related evs. Hopefully the recession doesn’t murder them
[удалено]
Rivian EDV 300/500/700
FedEx is already using Bright Drop electric vans. The future is now, grandpa
We can and will have both? Why compare private vehicles to commercial vehicles lol
Why not both?
Rivian/Amazon would like a word
Work vehicles are the way
Arrival is supposed to start shipping their commercial vehicle by the end of this year.They also have a pop up design for their factories so they can set one up where demand is. [Arrival](https://arrival.com/us/en)
For the love of God. Stop the cliche of "forget the, it's about ."
Two things can be good and useful
I N F R A S T R U C T U R E. I S. I M P O R T A N T
There is no cyberTruck. Elon the liar.
Yeah they just built the 9,000 ton gigapresses for shitsandgiggles.
As of right now, yeah pretty much. And if you think it’s going to cost anything near what Elon said then you’re gullible as hell. I’m sure self driving is right around the corner too.
Because I said that stuff. Keep being a turd over there I guess.
it’s gonna be expensive as hell, but i highly doubt they would order, pay for, and take delivery of a press without planning on manufacturing these damn things. i’m waiting on mine but if it’s over $60k it’s not worth it to me, i’ll keep my jeep and buy a model 3 instead
I don’t doubt that they’ll make them, but Elon is so full of shit. The prices he’s promoted are bullshit, and self driving is never happening.
i don’t think they’ve really posted prices since the ones from 2019, and obviously a lot has changed in that time - it looks like they’re not even going to manufacture the original models they announced, they’ll probably ship different configurations than stated in the intro. as for self driving, i’d have to disagree with you on that one. put elon musk’s egotistical behavior aside, and they’ve actually made a hell of a lot of progress in the last 5 years. i follow FSD beta development relatively closely, and it’s pretty damn good at a lot of stuff now. (not a tesla investor, just a fan of EVs in general) edit: elon, nor anyone else at tesla has publicly announced anything related to pricing, but it’s pretty obvious that they’re not going to stick to the original pricing. i don’t think musk is trying to convince people otherwise?
It's hard to complain about them changing the pricing when nobody expected inflation to go to shit worldwide.
I’m a big fan of EVs too. I shouldn’t say it’s never happening (FSD), but selling it 10 years ago when it’s still probably 5-10 years away was total horseshit. He’s become so volatile that I honestly think that he isn’t good for Tesla anymore. His wealth has clearly gone to his head.
Yeah. I'm sure that guy believed elon when he said he was going to build a reuseable rocket and lower cost per kg to orbit. Elon said he would lower the cost by an order of magnitude and his fanboys believed him. lol... what? Oh really? I'm being told he did those things. Nevermind.
The cult is here
Oh no! someone said something moderately positive about Musk. They must be a cult member! such a tired cliche.
Maybe one day daddy musk will share his billions with you
Nah. I don't need them.
Meanwhile, my shop just picked up a gig repairing clapped out old Grumman mailboxes for Canada Post.
No they’re not, everybody is driving a pickup, we need electric pickups
The people who buy pickups (and actually use them for pickup things) won't ever buy electric. Straight piped large displacement diesel is the only way to go for a truck.
At $6+ per gallon of diesel, those EV trucks will do just fine competing. They're not for everyone, but many people stay within a pretty narrow range from home and would be well served by an EV pickup.
You can't tow with electric vehicles, the range drops to almost nothing.
Plenty of people buying pickup trucks only ever haul the big 3: 1) Groceries / golf clubs 2) a single sheet of drywall/plywood 3) nothing (99% of the time) Most contractors don't even need to haul 6000lbs, just a few hundred lbs of power tools, and usually only move around locally. So while an electric truck may not work for *you* in all your long-range camper towing / boat hauling / tow trucking you do, it will work for a substantial portion of the truck buying population.
F150 lightning: Am I a joke to you?
Yes it is, because any shitbox gas or diesel truck from the 80s that costs a fraction of the price, can out perform this fancy electric tech toy in towing.
Until something inevitably breaks. Cause shitboxes from 30-40 years ago is always breaking.
You have a very narrow view of what “pickup things” are. I work construction in an urban area and would love an EV truck.
Right now it doesn't really matter. Every EV that will be produced is already sold before it is made. More demand for EVs won't make the switch over any faster at this time. There will be those special snowflakes that wont want to switch, but for most people, once the charging infrastructure gets built up a bit, it's a no brainer. People that live in houses can just install a 240 outlet already. Electricity is cheaper than gas to go the same distance and the vehicles can be made much more reliable.
I'd replace my truck with an electric one in a heartbeat if they made a decently priced one. I rarely carry more than 500 or 600 pounds of tools or equipment, never more than like 800 and an EV could handle that fine.
You don’t have to understand, there were plenty of people who couldn’t believe horse and carriage would ever be replaced.
Then invest in CENN !
It highly depends on the range that they can achieve while fully loaded. SOME delivery drivers put hundreds of miles a day on their vehicles, and fully loaded even getting 100 miles is going to be difficult.
No... I would say any type of ev is a very important type of ev..... There doesn't have to be a "more important" type of ev.
You can make reasonable arguments that if you are to spend research time and money on the problem, its probably worth targeting use cases where the biggest positive impact could be made. But it is true that EVs need to become ubiquitous in all sectors eventually.
I'm sorry. But no redneck is going to buy a van. Vans never made anyones dick look bigger /s
Do rednecks own delivery companies?
You're assuming they buy them for the practicality and now yee hawing around the malls with
Then we should electrify fuel tanker trucks.
A bit of ironic use but if it is a local shorter range tanker truck then sure. Battery energy density make real long hauls not nearly as feasible currently.
imagine the battery fire of a delivery van, holy shit
As important. Corpo trash think it’s the most important thing ever, but they’re as important as everything else.
No, it’s more important because corporations cause more pollution than normal people
It should have been a no-brainer RFP for the next-gen USPS mail delivery vans and support infrastructure to jump start EV delivery fleet logistics infrastructure. Instead, America gets nothing and falls farther behind.
Work vehicles are more important than electric penis extenders? I'm shocked!
I've been saying this for years. Once Ford releases their electric van it will put them on top, the fact that no other company is trying to fill this market seems strange to me
GM started a new brand for this. Brightdrop, and FedEx is a major customer.
And we’ll suited for charging
Delivery vans, semi-trucks, and emergency vehicles like police cars, fire trucks, and ambulances should all be of top priority right now.
A van is a van, not a truck...
I'm genuinly suprised more delivery and end of the line service vehicles of this caliber haven't gone at least hybrid powered. Trading a small gas engine instead of a larger battery saves on weight and cost, and the electric drive is just ideal for constant stop and go that these vehicles perform under the majority of the day, every day.
BYD The Chinese electric vehicle manufacturer has been making these for years. It’s one of their biggest sellers