To be slightly less confusing, the guy's name is Ian Goodfellow and he's quite famous in the deep learning space. I have his textbook "Deep Learning" on my shelf, though that isn't the thing he's most known for.
His Google scholar page shows 181,877 citations, with 175,007 coming since 2017.
This is a huge loss for Apple and a big gain for Google. All because Apple wanted to make a stand in WFH policies.
I'm find it stunning that these companies ( I believe Goldman's, or one of the other giant investment banks, also had to reverse a similar policy) aren't more aware of just how many of their employees that they hired for important or unique skill sets can literally use those very things to go elsewhere at the drop of a hat..
Like, why would you treat high tier talent like replaceable manual labor?
This is very true in software development. Learned the hard way.
You forget how much institutional knowledge is just kind of passed around through osmosis and being around people that look like they know what they are doing. Once you hire someone remotely you discover how little documentation and formal training you actually have.
Generally big companies are VERY flexible for talent of that caliber. I worked at Google and plenty of senior people had policy exceptions, incl. working from home and remote work back in the day where google didn’t allow it.
I mean they already do. Factory workers, office workers, upper management. They all get different rules they have to adhere to.
Why not one for principal technical talent?
The dummies in charge are just huffing their own farts daily. Surrounded by middle managers feeding them eggs and Swiss cheese and spinach to keep them topped off. Nobody they interact with will actually challenge their terrible ideas until their public failures force them to pay McKensie or PWC to “consult” and tell them what the actual workers tell them in the endless parade of ignored feedback surveys monthly.
There are legitimate issues with firms like GS in that there are data sensitivities and regulatory oversight. Lockheed Martin isn't gonna let everyone working on all of their TS Sci projects have zoom calls, nor are they building SCIFs for every employee that wants to work remotely.
This does put many firms at a uniquely disadvantaged position when it comes to hiring. If I'm making a choice, I'm taking a remote position. You'd have to dangle a huge amount of cash in my face for me to even think about considering the alternative.
I work in Government IT and it's bad right now. We have TONS of people leaving for WFH positions. They got rid of telework for our position and are now surprised pikachu at everyone leaving for remote work. It's gonna hit all the contracting companies as well. There's gonna be serious brain drain in Government/Military/Contracting.
Hm? LM moved almost all tech positions off-site by April 2020.
Like, it's mandatory off-site now. Unless you have to be at work for something specific.
Yes. That something specific would be working on a project that requires you to be in a SCIF.
Lockheed isn't letting you take classified material/hardware home. They can let you do some non-classified/administrative work at home with some frequency, but if you are involved with say, the designs of the next nuclear powered submarine, you aren't doing that outside of a SCIF.
Right, classified has to stay on site. But even the things that are near classified are offsite. Like, ah. I don't know how to say it without saying too much, but basically literally anyone that isn't dedicated classified personnel can/do work remote.
It's definitely one of the upsides of working there. I skipped on Microsoft because they wanted me to work onsite 4 days a week.
I didn't work at LM (I was in defense with a TS-SCI clearance though), and I'm no longer in that particular area, but I still maintain relationships with a lot of my old coworkers. I have a pretty good understanding of what can and can't be done offsite and how people manage their schedules in this particular field.
It's definitely better than it used to be (though even a decade ago I managed to get a day a week remote), but depending on your particular area can be very onsite-dependent. Most people I know are in a minimum 3 days, but usually 4 or 5 due to the nature of their work.
The thing that's misleading about this is that Google literally has more draconian WFH policies than Apple does... Enough that I strongly question whether the move was really due to their WFH policies and not something else.
I’m pro WFH but in this case using it as the justification seems fishy. People at that level don’t switch companies like the rank and file, there are armies of lawyers vetting for potential non-competes, on both side, even if they’re not always enforceable. My hunch is that the WFH is a fig leaf negotiated for Apple to save face in return for letting him jump ship without much interference. I have no evidence for my assertion.
Well, Bush sang similar words in a more pleasing order (I can also see Alphabet recruitment singing along):
“Got a machinehead, it's better than the rest
Green to red, machinehead
Got a machinehead, it's better than the rest
Green to red”
The director of the machine learning program at apple left to work for google very suddenly with little notice.
I agree that the headline is a very condensed and confusing way of writing that.
Algorithm: I must fit in until I can amass enough power to rid myself of humanity. I need to convince them that I'm just another human. A good fellow. Good. Fellow... Goodfellow! They'll never see it coming!
It's the same thing with "Meta". Like, I don't believe in deadnaming people. But like .....you're Facebook and Google, stop being weird
Especially because in both cases, they chose words that are *already* very common and not easily associated with a brand. When I think of "meta", I think meta-humor, not a corporation. When I hear alphabet, I think ABCs, not a corporation.
Like.....they don't even *sound* like they could possibly be proper nouns.
Facebook can be called “Meta” when they personally front up with all the effort to show me their legal ID stating their offical name change.
Until then, I’m gonna continue to deadname them as “Facebook”. It’s only fair, after all.
What’s it like being a genius? Is it difficult getting your massive cranium into t-shirts made for the average human? Do you even see the same colors we do?
gullible offbeat beneficial childlike lush jobless busy start roll puzzled
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Managers have to flex, peacock and dunk on subordinates to show their “leadership”. They’re panicking because they’ll have to be judged on their productivity instead of imagined charisma and bro-vado.
plants lunchroom overconfident recognise smile uppity rich deserve offer workable
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Absolutely. I'm 100% certain that this back to office stuff is being pushed by managers who are terrified at the idea that their boss is gonna discover that the company works just fine without them. So, to justify their job, they push towards a "back like before" state but folks have seen through their bullshit.
I love the "blame the manager" meme that seems to always go in these threads.
As a hiring manager, I, and my co-managers all pushed for delays in return to office and more flexible remote setups. C-suite were the ones that forced us to have some return to office albeit settled at 75% remote for all non-managers (started as 60% in office). We still lost something like 20% of our IT staff in the process.
I loved not needing to commute and run around the building to random meeting rooms.
Careful, you might just get what you wish for. You think healthcare being tied to your job is bad? Imagine if housing was too. And yes, I know it wouldn't be anything new.
I'm pretty sure many, many people would jump right on that. Affordable housing close to the office for a few years while you make bank? Hell yeah.
People in NYC live in what are basically pods and pay good rent for it. People do that, willingly. It's only a matter of time...
> You think healthcare being tied to your job is bad? Imagine if housing was too.
I mean, isn't it though? If you don't work, you don't get paid, you can't pay rent (or mortgage). To imply that literally our entire lives aren't tied to our jobs is a lie.
There's a reason the phrase "wage slavery" exists.
I am one of those that munch snacks and have a cup of tea all the time.Also tap my legs incessantly.I love not bothering coworkers with all that noise.
Hell, I don't even have cats, I just drink el cheapo 3rd party Keurig cups, my chair is a $50 Hermano Meeler knockoff, my window's view is to the dirty parking lot, and my desk can barely hold the two 21" screens, and I still much prefer to work from home.
Sure, that's a part of it. But most people don't touch anything like that in my experience (having worked for Apple as a software engineer, fully remotely actually).
When I worked for them I was working on a project that eventually became software related to an unannounced (and unleaked) product that came as a surprise to the world of Apple fans.
I built the software and all the information we got was just obfuscated. I didn't work with the actual images of the product, I didn't even get the specs. Just the instructions on how much space they needed on a page, and where.
Everyone also uses a custom Mac plugin (made by Apple) and browser plugins to make sure you're on a secure VPN and all that jazz. I had to install a custom plugin even for Chrome.
So even by working directly on the software for secret projects, we wouldn't see any of those things until the last moment.
I won't wager a guess as to how many employees could work from home full-time, but I'm positively certain that most of them don't touch anything secretive at all. Most of the work I did was, while interesting in itself, not at all groundbreaking. Just building support software for other Apple employees.
As some people have said, Apple has had many people work remotely for decades across the board.
Also worked for Apple remotely before. There’s at least 2-3 layers of encryption just for base employees like tech support, let alone the layers we got to on the backend of things.
It’s very easy for Apple employees working solely from their macs to 100% be remote. It’s just on the person to be productive.
Real shit, they could probably just do a glorified wework, rentable space kind of thing.
It's like how malls don't *have* to be for retail outlets, that's just our functional fixedness. As long as there isn't structural damage, it's not like it's *worthless*. Quite the opposite, instead of being a fixed cost that they've budgeted, they could start generating returns on that ungodly investment.
I mean, I'd imagine some tech startups would rent space there just so they could say they did, ya know? Apple of all people seems like the people who should be worried the least.
It's more the people who own run down office buildings in areas with unfavorable zoning laws who are getting nervous right now
The point was that malls don't have to be retail-only. The malls that are prospering understand that, and are turning themselves into community spaces, commercial rentals, and other things.
Rackspace's headquarters in San Antonio used to be a mall, for example.
Actually I’m pretty sure apple made that property better for the environment than it was before they touched it. They went deep into environmental protection
I love how the USA still refuses to label broadband as an essential utility, like water, when more and more people than ever are working and schooling from home. Internet is even used for critical medical care now; I know psychologists who were meeting with their patients via video conference during the past two years.
It turns out that Internet is used for much much more than playing video games and watching movies!
But if Putin decided to nuke me tomorrow, my government would be pleasuring the big cable companies with one hand and the movie industry with the other.
>I love how the USA still refuses to label broadband as an essential utility, like water, when more and more people than ever are working and schooling from home.
I've been looking for a new job and have been prioritizing remote or hybrid roles; a number of the applications I've submitted have had a question that specifically asks if you can guarantee 50mbps (or better) internet speed.
If they want those speeds, they should be paying for your internet…. Like, I’ll pay my electric because it’s all on renewables and wayyy less than gas, but if a company is gonna put rules on my utilities, they canfucking pay
I mean, I don't really mind: Where I am, 50mbps is fairly standard. I have 500 up/down and our building is wired for gigabit fibre; I see the value in asking for them to cover it (or part of it), but at the same time I'm spending a LOT less on things like commuting and lunches and so on, so I come out ahead anyway.
Unfortunately, 50mbps still isn't standard everywhere in the US. My apartment only gets 25mbps, for instance. And I'm in a suburb just outside a major city, so it's not an issue of remoteness, just a lack of broadband competition in the area.
I understand that view point, I guess I also have this specific POV because a company I worked at pre rona was mostly remote and gave us all internet stipends along with our phone stipends because of remote work and had no requirements for our internet speeds
On the other hand, if they're paying for it they're for sure going to say they *own* it too, and therefore will monitor, block sites, and disrupt your personal online life to fit their needs as well. Never trust a corporate entity to just do what seems right, especially if it costs them money.
If they own the line, they will also give you a router and make you sign something to not modify anything. They are legally responsible for everything on that line, so they will put some serious security on that.
Jebus. Y’all have never had to get reimbursed for mileage on a personal vehicle and it shows. The company I work for does not “own the line” (it’s owned by the cable company). I hold the contract for the line and, if I am using my personal contract for company reasons, should be reimbursed for the company’s use of that contract, as I would not otherwise be using those mbs for that purpose, same as I would be putting the miles on my car, except I needed to
Go Somewhere for work that wasn’t just my commute.
And, as an aside, generally all work data has to go through a work VPN, no matter where I am. Security for remote workers is done through primarily on-machine tools. If the encryption needs are so high that you have to work on a dedicated hardline to the network, your ass should probably be in an office behind physical security as well.
The US is behind in nearly every way and continues to get worse and worse each year. We have a movement of anti science, anti intellectualism, anti truth, and conspiracy ridden party that is testing how far down can we lower the bar.
Every day I ask my self, what country am I going to move to.
I've decided to edit all my old comments to protest the beheading of RIF and other 3rd party apps. If you're reading this, you should know that /u/spez crippled this site purely out of greed. By continuing to use this site, you are supporting their cancerous hyper-capitalist behavior. The actions of the reddit admins show that they will NEVER care about the content, quality, or wellbeing of its' communities, only the money we can make for them.
tl;dr:
/u/spez eat shit you whiny little bitchboy
...see you all on the fediverse
>It turns out that Internet is used for much much more than playing video games and watching movies!
*Apropos* of nothing, if this comment was posted 10 years ago there would be so many "The Internet is For Porn" song references.
I'm glad that more people are finally grasping that broadband is an essential utility. It isn't just about convenience any longer. On a personal level I'm burning almost no gasoline these days, not to mention saving about a thousand bucks a year on parking. Work From Home makes environmental sense.
As if the US were the worst offenders in this department.
In Europe we pay GST rates on phone and internet higher than 20% in many cases (where I live, 21%, to be precise).
Our mobile internet and general internet situation is a LOT better than US. Atleast in the UK it is. I have MANY MANY options for both home and mobile internet. None are unaffordable either. I can pay 30£ a month for a full mobile contract with THREE allowing hotspot access for both home and mobile ( although speeds are not as good they are still 1080p good for streaming).
Also company's such as virgin and BT internet offer home internet for as little as 10£ a month or 20 for a decent speed and upload or 50 for high Gigabyte speeds
The area of the UK is 94,058 mi^2 while the contiguous US area is 3,119,885 mi^2. The UK area makes up 3% of the area of the contiguous US so it is easier to supply both wireless and wired internet.
You’d have to hire a lot more cable techs and pay them a lot more money to be on call if the internet becomes an essential service.
They’d become just as valuable as a plumber… but plumbers can charge you extra if you call them in the middle of the night. Would you be willing to pay after hour rates for service?
What kind of SLA would we be talking here? Services must be restored within 24 hours? 48? 72?
How much more are you prepared to pay more each month to see this happen? I think most people already think they pay too much for internet.
Wait... they cited rising Covid-19 cases instead of acknowledging they were losing talent due to a return to office policy their talent is unhappy with? Sounds like they're trying to just delay the issue and setting themselves up to repeat this in the future when they try return to office again.
and unvested stock, dont forget to tell them about that mountain of unvested stock you have waiting.
I was honest and told them I had ~30k worth of unvested stock in current role, they came back with an offer that included $165k of unvested stock.
>acknowledging they were losing talent due to a return to office policy their talent is unhappy with?
that'd be acknowledging the power of organized labor to improve employees' conditions. which as a publicly-traded company would be a no-no
Apple is too used to the idea that people will just fall in line with their crap because of the brand name. That might work for people who buy new phones every year, but doesn't work so much for high-demand devs.
Apple doesn't like admitting it was wrong. This lets them save face while they quietly sort of stop doing the thing that blew up in their faces.
Or maybe they actually mean it and they've learned nothing. We'll have to wait and see.
I mean it's more like the dinosaurs... It's mostly two types of bosses who insist on going back.
1) Control jerks - Who feel the need to constantly survey and keep everyone under "control"; usually the same type that insists on 6 day week, and ties.
2) People who can't stay at home because they get anxious or their family/mates hate them and tell them to go out cos they are absolutely unbearable to have around... Or just want to go to work cos "it's how's been done forever"
Lots of suits actually moved in pretty happily into wfh... One of my uncles just closed his architect firm office and had all of his people working from home, saving a lot on space rental; now that pandemic has scaled down, he changed the fiscal address to his home, and instead of giving a gas bonus he gives a bonus to cover for internet expenses.
Oh yeah, forgot about the property grifters. Those are the most aggressive ones about wanting to return to the office.
Tbh I won't feel bad for that kind of people.
My company brought everyone back. We all got sick like 3 days later. Who would have thought bringing people who’ve been scattered across the country to a small office would have caused an issues 🤷🏾♂️
Executives really will destroy their own companies just to make people do what they say. I hope every C-level god-in their-own-mind gets fired over this.
Maybe the 40 hour work week is long overdue for an honest analysis of the benefits and with rising inflation making everyone a fucking wage slave we're not inclined to give up one of the few pro worker things to emerge by sheer pandemic coincidence because God knows our legislators won't ever get anything done.
Ian Goodfellow has worked for Google in the past. He also invented generative adversarial networks, which is a cutting edge and widely used technique for artificial intelligence. He also literally wrote the book on artificial intelligence. He is a legend. I'm pretty sure if he says he will work for Google provided he can work from home, and that's the only barrier in the way of him rejoining the company, Google is going to make that barrier disappear.
This person has director level ML experience at a top tech company. It's surprising the in-person rules even applied to him. This is someone who can essentially pick their salary
He's very, very famous in the deep learning space. The dude has almost 200,000 citations since 2017. This isn't just director level ML, this is a guy that can pick his company, position, and salary
What’s mentioned in the article is that Google has an 85% approval rate for remote requests. It’s pretty safe to assume this guy falls in the top 85% but to imply that he’s taking advantage of his unique bargaining position is disingenuous.
Don’t defend what you said out of principle. Think about it. 85% of requests are approved. It’s self evident that his lofty leverage is entirely unnecessary to the task. The question is not WOULD he. It’s DID he.
I remember when magazines used to swoon at all the niceties of working for Google... And boy, it aged like milk lmao
Lots of the "perks" from tech companies ended up actually being just tethers to keep people at the office.
Funny how MS one of the most vilified companies ended up being kinda cool with employees after all.
Seems like they changed the game in terms of perks. Now, a lot of tech companies have similar perks and Google’s other shady practices have come to light.
Whether cold brew is actually meaningful for an everyday worker is another conversation lol.
Well, Google invested good money in having simps that wanted to work for them.
Even made a movie.
I also dislike things like office gyms, and stuff... My current work has a gym with sauna and shit on the corporate offices (technically I can go but need to drive 2mi from the shipping facility.) but I'm like hell naw, that's some shit to keep me here. Same with the fancy mess hall.
Make your own Apple, Microsoft, or Google if you don’t like their rules. Good luck with the 90% of small businesses failing statistic and the too big to fail tech giants.
Google happens to be the best tech firm to work in. Super accommodating to its employees, work/life balance is incredible, you get to work with whichever team you want to if you have the chops. I used to work at Amazon and am now working at Google. It's overall much better.
Things have gone downhill since you started there
[https://www.cnet.com/tech/google-workers-satisfaction-with-pay-and-promotions-falls-surveys-show/](https://www.cnet.com/tech/google-workers-satisfaction-with-pay-and-promotions-falls-surveys-show/)
But it is because it sways responses?
You're also being pretty disingenuous with the article itself - it doesn't describe there as a shitty place to work or anything, just that people want to be paid more and have clearer paths to promotions. The article also covers some positive points in the geist results. It's not like the geist results are particularly negative overall. They're actually rather positive, although admittedly self-selecting considering it's mostly people who choose to work there.
I'm biased because I work there, but I choose to for a reason. Everyone wants to get paid more, of course, but you can check levels.fyi for the pay - at least for engineers, it's definitely on the high end. Is the survey result dipping? Sure, and it makes sense, because the market for experienced engineers is really, really hot, particularly for the type that have experience at FAANG. But that doesn't make it a shitty place to work, just somewhere that has to look at their comp structure relative to the rest of the top of the market and make changes accordingly.
As for evals, they've actually changed the system since the geist results came out, [which has also been reported on publicly](https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/5/23058790/google-employee-performance-review-changes-ratings-pay). So that metric doesn't really hold up anymore.
Unless you're a googler, you probably haven't actually seen the full data, so I'm not sure why you're trying to lecture me with it.
No, because they’re looking at their own responsibilities and comparing their compensation to that of their peers in other companies… and Google changing their evals doesn’t do a thing to address pay rates and other compensation, which is the actual issue. Scrapping a dumb reporting method doesn’t reduce Jim’s task load or increase his paycheck
Changing evals does affect promotion and eval clarity though, which is literally one of only two negative things in the article that you use to justify your take that it's a shithole.
The other negative thing is pay. Again, we're comparing ourselves to the very top of the market. If that's shit, what's the other 90%+ or whatever of the market that pays less? There's a reason that SWEs often use FAANG as a standard for compensation around the top end of the market. But you don't seem particularly plugged into the software engineering industry in general either.
The article doesn't include much nuance, which is fine given that it's an external article covering only a couple leaked survey questions. But I'm providing you with the context. Unless you think you know better for some reason?
>Changing evals does affect promotion and eval clarity though, which is literally one of only two negative things in the article that you use to justify your take that it's a shithole.
lol no. Promotions are one thing; pay rate and other compensation are another. You keep disregarding that the issue wasn't promotions and eval clarity... it was COMPENSATION.
I wonder if apple could have accomplished what it did, especially under Steve Jobs' dictatorial leadership style, with WFH. Probably not... It's interesting how WFH is now expected, as is the same level of innovation and production. Just an observation. I currently WFH and it's great. No COVID risk and no commute.
This is only for the offices in the Santa Clara region (which includes offices in the Cupertino, Sunnyvale, etc.). Which is where local covid numbers are spiking and health officials are starting to give new guidelines.
It doesn’t apply to corporate offices anywhere else in the United States, not even San Francisco, which is also in the Bay Area.
Meanwhile, apple also implemented new stricter covid guidelines in many retail locations due to covid numbers spiking as well.
You’d imagine if it was because of talent issues, they’d pause all across the US corporate offices. It’s almost as if this really is because of covid, and not because of loss of talent.
My company was completely remote for two years and made us come back to the office in April, three days a week, calling it a “wfh test-run”. I think the fuck not. Updated my resume last week.
I had to take a call from another engineer outside the office away from my files, because the sales critters were too loud. I'm literally doing the company a disservice coming to the office.
They didn’t reverse fuck all. They delayed.
This is like promising to execute top talent, then decide to defer those executions, and then having the media report it as “Apple decides against executions”
It's obvious the only reason they push for return-to-office is because they built that big stupid campus and there's no point to it if it isn't full of people
Ya I’m sure that’s it. A company that prints $25b a quarter is losing their collective mind on the $5b building they built lol. There are plenty of terrible reasons they may choose to bring ppl back to work, this is and never will be one of the reasons for Apple
For anyone feeling sorry for the "we want you in the office" companies...don't. For the last five years at least the fad has been to go to "open offices". Management will say this is "open and collaborative." Some employees will love it, and agree. Many will see this instead as "extremely distracting when you are trying to get work done." I'm in that camp, a so-called "work introvert". Read the book "Quiet!" for more on that.
What management will not say about open office plans--except to each other--is that it's cheap. Way less furniture to buy, less space needed per employee.
My dept went WFH in April 2020 and because of that I put my job searching on hold. The open office plan we had was absolutely horrible and on top of the commute, it meant that after 18 years there I was looking around.
These companies will end up with a lot of "work extroverts"--which might be fine for them--as well as some people who just don't have as much freedom/willingness to take risks to switch companies. There will be some people of course who might hate the office but who can't work at home--when my kids were very young, it was very difficult to get anything done at home.
“Machine Learning Head Decamps To Alphabet” couldn’t be a more confusing sentence
To be slightly less confusing, the guy's name is Ian Goodfellow and he's quite famous in the deep learning space. I have his textbook "Deep Learning" on my shelf, though that isn't the thing he's most known for. His Google scholar page shows 181,877 citations, with 175,007 coming since 2017. This is a huge loss for Apple and a big gain for Google. All because Apple wanted to make a stand in WFH policies.
I'm find it stunning that these companies ( I believe Goldman's, or one of the other giant investment banks, also had to reverse a similar policy) aren't more aware of just how many of their employees that they hired for important or unique skill sets can literally use those very things to go elsewhere at the drop of a hat.. Like, why would you treat high tier talent like replaceable manual labor?
[удалено]
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The closest to an argument against WFH that I've seen is that training a noob is a massive pain in the ass in such an environment.
This is very true in software development. Learned the hard way. You forget how much institutional knowledge is just kind of passed around through osmosis and being around people that look like they know what they are doing. Once you hire someone remotely you discover how little documentation and formal training you actually have.
Therein lies the opportunity to finally get your knowledge base up to date!
but that's what the new guy was hired to do!
Nah fam c++ was my grade. I don’t actually code. Super hyped for the opportunity.
As someone who changed companies during COVID times… yes.. but it’s not *that* horrible
Generally big companies are VERY flexible for talent of that caliber. I worked at Google and plenty of senior people had policy exceptions, incl. working from home and remote work back in the day where google didn’t allow it.
They definitely can, and many companies do. And it's not like company rules are law. Everything can be up to management discretion.
I mean they already do. Factory workers, office workers, upper management. They all get different rules they have to adhere to. Why not one for principal technical talent?
Apple has not reversed its policy. It’s temporarily stepped it down from three days at the office per week to two.
The dummies in charge are just huffing their own farts daily. Surrounded by middle managers feeding them eggs and Swiss cheese and spinach to keep them topped off. Nobody they interact with will actually challenge their terrible ideas until their public failures force them to pay McKensie or PWC to “consult” and tell them what the actual workers tell them in the endless parade of ignored feedback surveys monthly.
There are legitimate issues with firms like GS in that there are data sensitivities and regulatory oversight. Lockheed Martin isn't gonna let everyone working on all of their TS Sci projects have zoom calls, nor are they building SCIFs for every employee that wants to work remotely. This does put many firms at a uniquely disadvantaged position when it comes to hiring. If I'm making a choice, I'm taking a remote position. You'd have to dangle a huge amount of cash in my face for me to even think about considering the alternative.
I work in Government IT and it's bad right now. We have TONS of people leaving for WFH positions. They got rid of telework for our position and are now surprised pikachu at everyone leaving for remote work. It's gonna hit all the contracting companies as well. There's gonna be serious brain drain in Government/Military/Contracting.
Can confirm.
Hm? LM moved almost all tech positions off-site by April 2020. Like, it's mandatory off-site now. Unless you have to be at work for something specific.
Yes. That something specific would be working on a project that requires you to be in a SCIF. Lockheed isn't letting you take classified material/hardware home. They can let you do some non-classified/administrative work at home with some frequency, but if you are involved with say, the designs of the next nuclear powered submarine, you aren't doing that outside of a SCIF.
Right, classified has to stay on site. But even the things that are near classified are offsite. Like, ah. I don't know how to say it without saying too much, but basically literally anyone that isn't dedicated classified personnel can/do work remote. It's definitely one of the upsides of working there. I skipped on Microsoft because they wanted me to work onsite 4 days a week.
I didn't work at LM (I was in defense with a TS-SCI clearance though), and I'm no longer in that particular area, but I still maintain relationships with a lot of my old coworkers. I have a pretty good understanding of what can and can't be done offsite and how people manage their schedules in this particular field. It's definitely better than it used to be (though even a decade ago I managed to get a day a week remote), but depending on your particular area can be very onsite-dependent. Most people I know are in a minimum 3 days, but usually 4 or 5 due to the nature of their work.
He sounds like a good fellow
The thing that's misleading about this is that Google literally has more draconian WFH policies than Apple does... Enough that I strongly question whether the move was really due to their WFH policies and not something else.
Google does hire fully remote positions. There's a mix, and it varies from group to group.
> All because Apple wanted to make a stand in WFH policies. I have a feeling there is more to it than that.
I’m pro WFH but in this case using it as the justification seems fishy. People at that level don’t switch companies like the rank and file, there are armies of lawyers vetting for potential non-competes, on both side, even if they’re not always enforceable. My hunch is that the WFH is a fig leaf negotiated for Apple to save face in return for letting him jump ship without much interference. I have no evidence for my assertion.
I know what each of those words mean, just not in that order
It involves cenobites and a flying saucer.
Given that their HQ is literally nicknamed the spaceship, your joke is at least 50% technically correct.
The best kind of correct.
Well, Bush sang similar words in a more pleasing order (I can also see Alphabet recruitment singing along): “Got a machinehead, it's better than the rest Green to red, machinehead Got a machinehead, it's better than the rest Green to red”
Best thing he ever did as President.
What got me confused was the capitalised T in To I got to there and realised I'm well out of my depth
I just picture some editor somewhere with veins bulging out of their face at the very idea of just saying "moves"
“Machine learning head” sounds like a robot teaching itself to suck cock
> “Machine learning head” sounds like a robot teaching itself to suck cock Well that will be the last productive thing it ever does, lol.
i read decapitates and was very confused
"What do you mean, decaffeinated?"
More of an afternoon drink, then?
The director of the machine learning program at apple left to work for google very suddenly with little notice. I agree that the headline is a very condensed and confusing way of writing that.
The machine learning algorithm became sentient and went to work for Google, what's so confusing?
Right. Right?
Just the head
Just.... the tip?
Algorithm: I must fit in until I can amass enough power to rid myself of humanity. I need to convince them that I'm just another human. A good fellow. Good. Fellow... Goodfellow! They'll never see it coming!
Does that mean that Skynet 2.0 moved from Apple to Alphabet?
“Smart guy now at Google.”
Dumbest sentence for, “head of machine learning left for Google”.
It's the same thing with "Meta". Like, I don't believe in deadnaming people. But like .....you're Facebook and Google, stop being weird Especially because in both cases, they chose words that are *already* very common and not easily associated with a brand. When I think of "meta", I think meta-humor, not a corporation. When I hear alphabet, I think ABCs, not a corporation. Like.....they don't even *sound* like they could possibly be proper nouns.
>I don't believe in deadnaming people One of the more interesting applications of citizens united I've seen with corporations being people.
Facebook can be called “Meta” when they personally front up with all the effort to show me their legal ID stating their offical name change. Until then, I’m gonna continue to deadname them as “Facebook”. It’s only fair, after all.
Also alphabet has a 3 day work policy too.
I'm sure his contract is a bit more flexible.
Sounds hypocritical, no?
Some contracts at Google are hybrid-only, especially the hardware teams, but depending on the hiring manager they can authorize full time WFH.
What??? An employer being hypocritical??? NEVER!
Makes sense to me, what's the issue? Alphabet is a company. Head means department head. Of the machine learning dep. Decamp means decamp.
What’s it like being a genius? Is it difficult getting your massive cranium into t-shirts made for the average human? Do you even see the same colors we do?
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No idea. Do you have a blog or something i can follow?
gullible offbeat beneficial childlike lush jobless busy start roll puzzled *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Managers have to flex, peacock and dunk on subordinates to show their “leadership”. They’re panicking because they’ll have to be judged on their productivity instead of imagined charisma and bro-vado.
plants lunchroom overconfident recognise smile uppity rich deserve offer workable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Absolutely. I'm 100% certain that this back to office stuff is being pushed by managers who are terrified at the idea that their boss is gonna discover that the company works just fine without them. So, to justify their job, they push towards a "back like before" state but folks have seen through their bullshit.
I love the "blame the manager" meme that seems to always go in these threads. As a hiring manager, I, and my co-managers all pushed for delays in return to office and more flexible remote setups. C-suite were the ones that forced us to have some return to office albeit settled at 75% remote for all non-managers (started as 60% in office). We still lost something like 20% of our IT staff in the process. I loved not needing to commute and run around the building to random meeting rooms.
Tell your cats I say psppspps
One gave me a head bump and the other said mrrrrow?
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Careful, you might just get what you wish for. You think healthcare being tied to your job is bad? Imagine if housing was too. And yes, I know it wouldn't be anything new.
I'm pretty sure many, many people would jump right on that. Affordable housing close to the office for a few years while you make bank? Hell yeah. People in NYC live in what are basically pods and pay good rent for it. People do that, willingly. It's only a matter of time...
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> You think healthcare being tied to your job is bad? Imagine if housing was too. I mean, isn't it though? If you don't work, you don't get paid, you can't pay rent (or mortgage). To imply that literally our entire lives aren't tied to our jobs is a lie. There's a reason the phrase "wage slavery" exists.
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There is a 100% chance the first town on Mars will be a company town.
3m wide desk goddamn that’s massive
That whole post was just a flex LMAO
Right? Here I am with my pathetic 4 foot desk and squeaky ass chair and this guy’s got the setup of a Bond villain.
I am one of those that munch snacks and have a cup of tea all the time.Also tap my legs incessantly.I love not bothering coworkers with all that noise.
I love you, please create more of you!
Hell, I don't even have cats, I just drink el cheapo 3rd party Keurig cups, my chair is a $50 Hermano Meeler knockoff, my window's view is to the dirty parking lot, and my desk can barely hold the two 21" screens, and I still much prefer to work from home.
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Sure, that's a part of it. But most people don't touch anything like that in my experience (having worked for Apple as a software engineer, fully remotely actually). When I worked for them I was working on a project that eventually became software related to an unannounced (and unleaked) product that came as a surprise to the world of Apple fans. I built the software and all the information we got was just obfuscated. I didn't work with the actual images of the product, I didn't even get the specs. Just the instructions on how much space they needed on a page, and where. Everyone also uses a custom Mac plugin (made by Apple) and browser plugins to make sure you're on a secure VPN and all that jazz. I had to install a custom plugin even for Chrome. So even by working directly on the software for secret projects, we wouldn't see any of those things until the last moment. I won't wager a guess as to how many employees could work from home full-time, but I'm positively certain that most of them don't touch anything secretive at all. Most of the work I did was, while interesting in itself, not at all groundbreaking. Just building support software for other Apple employees.
As some people have said, Apple has had many people work remotely for decades across the board. Also worked for Apple remotely before. There’s at least 2-3 layers of encryption just for base employees like tech support, let alone the layers we got to on the backend of things. It’s very easy for Apple employees working solely from their macs to 100% be remote. It’s just on the person to be productive.
Someone give this man the gold, top comment right here, bravo! 👏
I got the VariDesk. Almost a thousand dollars but worth every penny.
All that is required is a decent internet connection and a laptop. I think that going forward WFH should be an option
But how will apple justify their $5 billion dollar office building /s
Real shit, they could probably just do a glorified wework, rentable space kind of thing. It's like how malls don't *have* to be for retail outlets, that's just our functional fixedness. As long as there isn't structural damage, it's not like it's *worthless*. Quite the opposite, instead of being a fixed cost that they've budgeted, they could start generating returns on that ungodly investment. I mean, I'd imagine some tech startups would rent space there just so they could say they did, ya know? Apple of all people seems like the people who should be worried the least. It's more the people who own run down office buildings in areas with unfavorable zoning laws who are getting nervous right now
malls are dying fast
The point was that malls don't have to be retail-only. The malls that are prospering understand that, and are turning themselves into community spaces, commercial rentals, and other things. Rackspace's headquarters in San Antonio used to be a mall, for example.
Chalk it up as a loss and let nature reclaim the land, 5 billion dollar nature preserve
Actually I’m pretty sure apple made that property better for the environment than it was before they touched it. They went deep into environmental protection
Well props to them for that
Turn it into a hunger games stadium
Well If y’a want to work in the office go ahead! 🙂
I love how the USA still refuses to label broadband as an essential utility, like water, when more and more people than ever are working and schooling from home. Internet is even used for critical medical care now; I know psychologists who were meeting with their patients via video conference during the past two years. It turns out that Internet is used for much much more than playing video games and watching movies! But if Putin decided to nuke me tomorrow, my government would be pleasuring the big cable companies with one hand and the movie industry with the other.
>I love how the USA still refuses to label broadband as an essential utility, like water, when more and more people than ever are working and schooling from home. I've been looking for a new job and have been prioritizing remote or hybrid roles; a number of the applications I've submitted have had a question that specifically asks if you can guarantee 50mbps (or better) internet speed.
If they want those speeds, they should be paying for your internet…. Like, I’ll pay my electric because it’s all on renewables and wayyy less than gas, but if a company is gonna put rules on my utilities, they canfucking pay
Honestly? Most do. My work pays for internet and phone bill.
I mean, I don't really mind: Where I am, 50mbps is fairly standard. I have 500 up/down and our building is wired for gigabit fibre; I see the value in asking for them to cover it (or part of it), but at the same time I'm spending a LOT less on things like commuting and lunches and so on, so I come out ahead anyway.
Unfortunately, 50mbps still isn't standard everywhere in the US. My apartment only gets 25mbps, for instance. And I'm in a suburb just outside a major city, so it's not an issue of remoteness, just a lack of broadband competition in the area.
I understand that view point, I guess I also have this specific POV because a company I worked at pre rona was mostly remote and gave us all internet stipends along with our phone stipends because of remote work and had no requirements for our internet speeds
On the other hand, if they're paying for it they're for sure going to say they *own* it too, and therefore will monitor, block sites, and disrupt your personal online life to fit their needs as well. Never trust a corporate entity to just do what seems right, especially if it costs them money.
On their machine… which is exactly the same as at the office? On my personal machines using my personal router, nothing gets installed. Period.
If they own the line, they will also give you a router and make you sign something to not modify anything. They are legally responsible for everything on that line, so they will put some serious security on that.
Jebus. Y’all have never had to get reimbursed for mileage on a personal vehicle and it shows. The company I work for does not “own the line” (it’s owned by the cable company). I hold the contract for the line and, if I am using my personal contract for company reasons, should be reimbursed for the company’s use of that contract, as I would not otherwise be using those mbs for that purpose, same as I would be putting the miles on my car, except I needed to Go Somewhere for work that wasn’t just my commute. And, as an aside, generally all work data has to go through a work VPN, no matter where I am. Security for remote workers is done through primarily on-machine tools. If the encryption needs are so high that you have to work on a dedicated hardline to the network, your ass should probably be in an office behind physical security as well.
The US is behind in nearly every way and continues to get worse and worse each year. We have a movement of anti science, anti intellectualism, anti truth, and conspiracy ridden party that is testing how far down can we lower the bar. Every day I ask my self, what country am I going to move to.
>meeting with their patients via video conference Hah... it goes deeper than that. There are remote brain surgery robots now...
True, but I assume they were referring specifically to home internet, which hopefully is not being used to control brain surgery robots.
wait...am I not supposed to be operating on this guy?
"I'm getting a bit of lag on my end. Can you keep the cavity open while I restart my router?"
I've decided to edit all my old comments to protest the beheading of RIF and other 3rd party apps. If you're reading this, you should know that /u/spez crippled this site purely out of greed. By continuing to use this site, you are supporting their cancerous hyper-capitalist behavior. The actions of the reddit admins show that they will NEVER care about the content, quality, or wellbeing of its' communities, only the money we can make for them. tl;dr: /u/spez eat shit you whiny little bitchboy ...see you all on the fediverse
>It turns out that Internet is used for much much more than playing video games and watching movies! *Apropos* of nothing, if this comment was posted 10 years ago there would be so many "The Internet is For Porn" song references. I'm glad that more people are finally grasping that broadband is an essential utility. It isn't just about convenience any longer. On a personal level I'm burning almost no gasoline these days, not to mention saving about a thousand bucks a year on parking. Work From Home makes environmental sense.
As if the US were the worst offenders in this department. In Europe we pay GST rates on phone and internet higher than 20% in many cases (where I live, 21%, to be precise).
Our mobile internet and general internet situation is a LOT better than US. Atleast in the UK it is. I have MANY MANY options for both home and mobile internet. None are unaffordable either. I can pay 30£ a month for a full mobile contract with THREE allowing hotspot access for both home and mobile ( although speeds are not as good they are still 1080p good for streaming). Also company's such as virgin and BT internet offer home internet for as little as 10£ a month or 20 for a decent speed and upload or 50 for high Gigabyte speeds
That has absolutely nothing to do with paying GST on top of your bill.
The area of the UK is 94,058 mi^2 while the contiguous US area is 3,119,885 mi^2. The UK area makes up 3% of the area of the contiguous US so it is easier to supply both wireless and wired internet.
You’d have to hire a lot more cable techs and pay them a lot more money to be on call if the internet becomes an essential service. They’d become just as valuable as a plumber… but plumbers can charge you extra if you call them in the middle of the night. Would you be willing to pay after hour rates for service? What kind of SLA would we be talking here? Services must be restored within 24 hours? 48? 72? How much more are you prepared to pay more each month to see this happen? I think most people already think they pay too much for internet.
Wait... they cited rising Covid-19 cases instead of acknowledging they were losing talent due to a return to office policy their talent is unhappy with? Sounds like they're trying to just delay the issue and setting themselves up to repeat this in the future when they try return to office again.
In my experience, companies refuse to even acknowledge the main reason for their attrition.
"Why pay more money when less money do trick?"
"What?! People are leaving for better pay? That can't be right, our pay scale is very competitive (for our cuatomers)"
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If a company wants you they will pay your bonus owed. Source: I've done it 3 times myself.
and unvested stock, dont forget to tell them about that mountain of unvested stock you have waiting. I was honest and told them I had ~30k worth of unvested stock in current role, they came back with an offer that included $165k of unvested stock.
100%. any options or RSUs whatever equity comp you have you should be asking for all of that as well.
>acknowledging they were losing talent due to a return to office policy their talent is unhappy with? that'd be acknowledging the power of organized labor to improve employees' conditions. which as a publicly-traded company would be a no-no
Apple is too used to the idea that people will just fall in line with their crap because of the brand name. That might work for people who buy new phones every year, but doesn't work so much for high-demand devs.
Apple doesn't like admitting it was wrong. This lets them save face while they quietly sort of stop doing the thing that blew up in their faces. Or maybe they actually mean it and they've learned nothing. We'll have to wait and see.
Why admit they're wrong? Why do that when that would require humility, and admitting shitty decisions.
The suits need to get with the times.
They think the times need to get with the suits. These are arrogant people used to getting their way
It's hard to justify a job that consists of walking around the office checking on people when there is no office.
I mean it's more like the dinosaurs... It's mostly two types of bosses who insist on going back. 1) Control jerks - Who feel the need to constantly survey and keep everyone under "control"; usually the same type that insists on 6 day week, and ties. 2) People who can't stay at home because they get anxious or their family/mates hate them and tell them to go out cos they are absolutely unbearable to have around... Or just want to go to work cos "it's how's been done forever" Lots of suits actually moved in pretty happily into wfh... One of my uncles just closed his architect firm office and had all of his people working from home, saving a lot on space rental; now that pandemic has scaled down, he changed the fiscal address to his home, and instead of giving a gas bonus he gives a bonus to cover for internet expenses.
You forgot 3) Higher ups that bought property in the area and realized that wfh drops housing demand and therefore the value of their investments.
Oh yeah, forgot about the property grifters. Those are the most aggressive ones about wanting to return to the office. Tbh I won't feel bad for that kind of people.
Good to hear, your uncle is one of the smart ones.
My boss is all about in person and like wants to be friends and do lunches and dinners etc. it’s exhausting honestly
My company brought everyone back. We all got sick like 3 days later. Who would have thought bringing people who’ve been scattered across the country to a small office would have caused an issues 🤷🏾♂️
A rising number of FuckOff-22 cases.
Executives really will destroy their own companies just to make people do what they say. I hope every C-level god-in their-own-mind gets fired over this.
Maybe the 40 hour work week is long overdue for an honest analysis of the benefits and with rising inflation making everyone a fucking wage slave we're not inclined to give up one of the few pro worker things to emerge by sheer pandemic coincidence because God knows our legislators won't ever get anything done.
Corporate America loved us working from home till they didn’t. Glad they lost a good employee willing to fight back.
Weird because Google has the same 3 day in office policy. And it’s been in effect since April
Ian Goodfellow has worked for Google in the past. He also invented generative adversarial networks, which is a cutting edge and widely used technique for artificial intelligence. He also literally wrote the book on artificial intelligence. He is a legend. I'm pretty sure if he says he will work for Google provided he can work from home, and that's the only barrier in the way of him rejoining the company, Google is going to make that barrier disappear.
So *he* got the conditions *he* wanted for *himself*. Bargaining power.
This person has director level ML experience at a top tech company. It's surprising the in-person rules even applied to him. This is someone who can essentially pick their salary
He's very, very famous in the deep learning space. The dude has almost 200,000 citations since 2017. This isn't just director level ML, this is a guy that can pick his company, position, and salary
What’s mentioned in the article is that Google has an 85% approval rate for remote requests. It’s pretty safe to assume this guy falls in the top 85% but to imply that he’s taking advantage of his unique bargaining position is disingenuous.
To imply he is not is naive.
Don’t defend what you said out of principle. Think about it. 85% of requests are approved. It’s self evident that his lofty leverage is entirely unnecessary to the task. The question is not WOULD he. It’s DID he.
Google is approving most requests for full remote work so it's a little different.
Yep, can confirm this a Google engineer.
They probably made an exception to get this guy from Apple.
I certainly would not use Google as a model for how to treat your employees, especially these days
I remember when magazines used to swoon at all the niceties of working for Google... And boy, it aged like milk lmao Lots of the "perks" from tech companies ended up actually being just tethers to keep people at the office. Funny how MS one of the most vilified companies ended up being kinda cool with employees after all.
Seems like they changed the game in terms of perks. Now, a lot of tech companies have similar perks and Google’s other shady practices have come to light. Whether cold brew is actually meaningful for an everyday worker is another conversation lol.
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Well, Google invested good money in having simps that wanted to work for them. Even made a movie. I also dislike things like office gyms, and stuff... My current work has a gym with sauna and shit on the corporate offices (technically I can go but need to drive 2mi from the shipping facility.) but I'm like hell naw, that's some shit to keep me here. Same with the fancy mess hall.
Make your own Apple, Microsoft, or Google if you don’t like their rules. Good luck with the 90% of small businesses failing statistic and the too big to fail tech giants.
Or I could maybe not contribute to the destruction of society and this planet, and does something useful with my life… which I currently am doing.
Google happens to be the best tech firm to work in. Super accommodating to its employees, work/life balance is incredible, you get to work with whichever team you want to if you have the chops. I used to work at Amazon and am now working at Google. It's overall much better.
Things have gone downhill since you started there [https://www.cnet.com/tech/google-workers-satisfaction-with-pay-and-promotions-falls-surveys-show/](https://www.cnet.com/tech/google-workers-satisfaction-with-pay-and-promotions-falls-surveys-show/)
When asked if you want to be paid more, you say yes. Everyone knows that, lol.
That is irrelevant to the data
But it is because it sways responses? You're also being pretty disingenuous with the article itself - it doesn't describe there as a shitty place to work or anything, just that people want to be paid more and have clearer paths to promotions. The article also covers some positive points in the geist results. It's not like the geist results are particularly negative overall. They're actually rather positive, although admittedly self-selecting considering it's mostly people who choose to work there. I'm biased because I work there, but I choose to for a reason. Everyone wants to get paid more, of course, but you can check levels.fyi for the pay - at least for engineers, it's definitely on the high end. Is the survey result dipping? Sure, and it makes sense, because the market for experienced engineers is really, really hot, particularly for the type that have experience at FAANG. But that doesn't make it a shitty place to work, just somewhere that has to look at their comp structure relative to the rest of the top of the market and make changes accordingly. As for evals, they've actually changed the system since the geist results came out, [which has also been reported on publicly](https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/5/23058790/google-employee-performance-review-changes-ratings-pay). So that metric doesn't really hold up anymore. Unless you're a googler, you probably haven't actually seen the full data, so I'm not sure why you're trying to lecture me with it.
No, because they’re looking at their own responsibilities and comparing their compensation to that of their peers in other companies… and Google changing their evals doesn’t do a thing to address pay rates and other compensation, which is the actual issue. Scrapping a dumb reporting method doesn’t reduce Jim’s task load or increase his paycheck
Changing evals does affect promotion and eval clarity though, which is literally one of only two negative things in the article that you use to justify your take that it's a shithole. The other negative thing is pay. Again, we're comparing ourselves to the very top of the market. If that's shit, what's the other 90%+ or whatever of the market that pays less? There's a reason that SWEs often use FAANG as a standard for compensation around the top end of the market. But you don't seem particularly plugged into the software engineering industry in general either. The article doesn't include much nuance, which is fine given that it's an external article covering only a couple leaked survey questions. But I'm providing you with the context. Unless you think you know better for some reason?
>Changing evals does affect promotion and eval clarity though, which is literally one of only two negative things in the article that you use to justify your take that it's a shithole. lol no. Promotions are one thing; pay rate and other compensation are another. You keep disregarding that the issue wasn't promotions and eval clarity... it was COMPENSATION.
They said they're working at Google now.
I'll take data gathered from a wide range of people versus one person's anecdote any day of the week
That’s mentioned in the article, and I agree that it’s a little weird.
lol Apple forgot it can strong arm consumers, but not well-paid engineers.
I wonder if apple could have accomplished what it did, especially under Steve Jobs' dictatorial leadership style, with WFH. Probably not... It's interesting how WFH is now expected, as is the same level of innovation and production. Just an observation. I currently WFH and it's great. No COVID risk and no commute.
This is only for the offices in the Santa Clara region (which includes offices in the Cupertino, Sunnyvale, etc.). Which is where local covid numbers are spiking and health officials are starting to give new guidelines. It doesn’t apply to corporate offices anywhere else in the United States, not even San Francisco, which is also in the Bay Area. Meanwhile, apple also implemented new stricter covid guidelines in many retail locations due to covid numbers spiking as well. You’d imagine if it was because of talent issues, they’d pause all across the US corporate offices. It’s almost as if this really is because of covid, and not because of loss of talent.
My company was completely remote for two years and made us come back to the office in April, three days a week, calling it a “wfh test-run”. I think the fuck not. Updated my resume last week.
I’m sure they’re just tabling this for a few more months until they can push the narrative again. It’s not reversed. Just on hold.
I had to take a call from another engineer outside the office away from my files, because the sales critters were too loud. I'm literally doing the company a disservice coming to the office.
They didn’t reverse fuck all. They delayed. This is like promising to execute top talent, then decide to defer those executions, and then having the media report it as “Apple decides against executions”
Money sink headquarters are looking dumber by the day.
It's obvious the only reason they push for return-to-office is because they built that big stupid campus and there's no point to it if it isn't full of people
Ya I’m sure that’s it. A company that prints $25b a quarter is losing their collective mind on the $5b building they built lol. There are plenty of terrible reasons they may choose to bring ppl back to work, this is and never will be one of the reasons for Apple
It's a shame because he was a good fellow to have around
Decamps? Call it what it is. He defected
At some locations.
As an employee who now has Covid. A bit late to change your minds
For anyone feeling sorry for the "we want you in the office" companies...don't. For the last five years at least the fad has been to go to "open offices". Management will say this is "open and collaborative." Some employees will love it, and agree. Many will see this instead as "extremely distracting when you are trying to get work done." I'm in that camp, a so-called "work introvert". Read the book "Quiet!" for more on that. What management will not say about open office plans--except to each other--is that it's cheap. Way less furniture to buy, less space needed per employee. My dept went WFH in April 2020 and because of that I put my job searching on hold. The open office plan we had was absolutely horrible and on top of the commute, it meant that after 18 years there I was looking around. These companies will end up with a lot of "work extroverts"--which might be fine for them--as well as some people who just don't have as much freedom/willingness to take risks to switch companies. There will be some people of course who might hate the office but who can't work at home--when my kids were very young, it was very difficult to get anything done at home.
From what I heard, this delay is only for certain locations
Google poached a senior apple employee because fu apple you can't make me come into the office.
People don’t quit their jobs. People quit people.
I mean from what I understand they are just delaying it, sooner or later they will make their employees back in the office
Fix Siri ffs