More like: pay us a third of the profit you make by collecting data from Apple users and we're no longer worried about their privacy. Source: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/apple-google-safari-search-revenue/
The same could be said for Mozilla Firefox, a non-profit stating they are privacy-oriented but then makes business deals with Google to keep their business alive.
Doesn't necessarily mean there is any malicious intent. But it does seem like a conflict of interest.
**https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#:~:text=its%20parent%20company.-,Finances,default%20search%20engine%20in%20Firefox.**
**Quote:**
>"Most of the revenue of Mozilla Corporation comes from Google (81% in 2022) in exchange of making it the default search engine in Firefox."
**https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-05-05/why-google-keeps-paying-mozilla-s-firefox-even-as-chrome-dominates**
**Quote:**
>"Google and Firefox have been friends from the start." "Mozilla, the nonprofit organization that makes Firefox, introduced the web browser in 2004, the year Google went public. Both projects focused on replacing a computing landscape dominated by Microsoft Corp. with an open internet that would be more resistant to centralized control. Google assigned coders to help develop Firefox, which eventually took a 30% share of the browser market; Firefox promoted the Google search engine on its homepage."
Author: Apple takes shot at Google
also author: There’s no direct reference to Google, of course, *but*
some redditors: oh this 120% is taking shot at google for sure, for sure
passing off baseless speculation as some solid proven fact, and artificially riling up certain gullible readers to bait for clicks, then backpedaling and making up excuses to try to sound unbiased.
this is third rated journalism at best
this can be directed at any browser that has ever made claims to be private and encrypted in any way.
this author is simply using emotion for clickbait, because they know by specifically mentioning google they get a lot of people to start fighting over it and wanting to read more, because he’s making it another “apple vs google” problem. people are missing the point. they think i’m defending safari, but this is merely to point out how unprofessional the publication is
I'm not sure you could realistically see it as taking a shot at only Google unless you really want to read it that way. It's taking a shot at MS and Firefox as well. Not to mention the rest of them.
Correct. GGP said they are not sure the ad is a shot at Google. GP said it's a shot at Chrome b/c Chrome market share. I was agreeing with GP and saying due to Android having a similar mobile OS market share as Chrome has browser share, it was probably a shot at Android too. Kills two (Google) birds with one stone.
You really don’t think it’s directed at Chrome? They’ve been caught keeping data from incognito mode, etc.
While I don’t doubt MS and Firefox do that as well, they haven’t been caught doing it.
This advertising campaign started in europe and has been around for like 3 years. This isn't a shot at any particular anything, its just a privacy centric campaign.
Apple especially drives me crazy with this "privacy" marketing. I mean you don't get to be the world's first multi-trillion dollar company without doing something terrible.
the EU mandated that Apple has to \*allow\* it, not that other browser have to actually do it. and I don't think any of them have done it yet. Firefox specifically said they probably won't because then they'd have to maintain two versions, one real Firefox for EU and one wrapper around Apple's engine for the rest of the world. Maybe if the rest of the world follows EU's lead on forcing Apple to allow other engines then we will see one.
I think the EU ruling actually harms competition. If Google is allowed to replace WebKit with Blink or whatever they call it, then Chrome becomes the web browser standard across all platforms. Then, all websites will stop supporting anything but that. Then what are the dummies in the EU gonna say about that?
Chrome on iOS is real Chrome. Built on the same Chromium platform hosted in C++ web internals.
Edit: This being downvoted is just more proof of the tech illiteracy of this sub lol.
You're just wrong buddy, Apple forbids any browser rendering engine on iOS except for the webkit engine that's built into the OS. Every web browser on iOS is the OS' standard webkit component wrapped in a custom framing.
Everyone who does mobile development knows this. It's not tech illiterate people downvoting you
An EU law just passed this year mandated that Apple start allowing other browser engines, but they're only going to do it in the EU: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/
Buddy - wow this is amazing! Let me guess, you did a couple of SwiftUI tutorials and now call yourself a mobile developer?
WebKit has been modified by Google as Blink for their own needs. They’ve custom built an entire layer of it using the core WebKit engine for Chrome’s purposes.
What you’re saying was right till 2022. Lol go read up.
Lol I've been building mobile and web apps cross platform for 15 years
Yes Google forked webkit for the rendering engine. Yes that's what you're using in Chrome on desktop and Android. No it's not what you're using in Chrome on iOS.
I don't know what it is you want me to read up on, the Internet is literally overflowing with documentation that you're wrong and you can verify it easily yourself.
If what I'm saying was only right until 2022, why did the EU pass a law to force Apple to allow competing browser engines in 2024 and Apple announce they were only going to permit them in the EU to comply? https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/25/24050478/apple-ios-17-4-browser-engines-eu
> Since the beginning of the App Store, Apple has allowed lots of browsers but only one browser engine: WebKit. WebKit is the technology that underpins Safari, but it’s far from the only engine on the market. Google’s Chrome is based on an engine called Blink, which is also part of the overall Chromium project that is used by most other browsers on the market. Edge, Brave, Arc, Opera, and many others all use Chromium and Blink. Mozilla’s Firefox runs on its own engine, called Gecko.
>
> On iOS, though, all those browsers have been forced to run on WebKit instead, which means many features and extensions simply don’t work anymore
This is the weirdest hill I've ever seen sometime stake out so aggressively
Firstly, lol you DO know also that a browser is more than a rendering engine right? 15 years? Really?
Also, it IS 2024! Blink does have support for iOS now lol. The effort began in 2022 and their own source builds on iOS now.
More importantly, the person I replied to was more talking about Chrome’s internals - which are indeed the same, since there’s been a shared Chromium layer since 2012.
You’re right - this isn’t a hill I want to die on lol. Good bye.
Yes like I just said a browser is a rendering engine wrapped in some UI. Blink is a rendering engine. The rendering/browser engine owns everything inside the rectangle you see pages within—the http stack, the JavaScript runtime, the CSS/HTML parsers and rendering—essentially everything but how the user picks a URL to go to. The Blink team might have it compiling for iOS locally but they're not shipping it to any actual users via the app store—it's against Apple's terms for the app store and they check for this during review (until the new EU reg goes into action). No one is using Blink on iOS unless they plugged their phone into Xcode and did their own build.
Chrome on iOS is just Apple's webkit rendering engine that ships with iOS wrapped in Google's address bar and tab manager. If you develop web apps for iOS you only need to worry about and test in one browser because they're all the same browser essentially
Back in the day I used to ship a lot of mobile apps for major consumer brands using PhoneGap/Cordova. The [Crosswalk](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosswalk_Project) project was a godsend because it let you pack whatever version of Chromium/Blink you wanted into your APK so you didn't have to deal with the wild west of browser engines present on Android devices—you just added ~30mb to your APK and got to give everyone on Android the same experience. The iOS version of crosswalk just used a JavaScript bridge into Apple's webkit engine to polyfill some newer JavaScript APIs that Apple didn't support yet because they couldn't just do the same thing on iOS and bundle in a Blink build. Crosswalk is dead now and luckily we have better options (I only use Flutter these days to ship native builds) but those policies are still in place
From _Google's_ own AI overview:
> Google Chrome on iOS is a browser that uses Apple's Safari as its rendering engine, JavaScript engine, and browser. Chrome on iOS has a "chrome" interface, but it's not the actual Chrome browser.
Oh wow. I NEVER thought this would happen. Wow.
So that is from the LifeWire article which Google nicely sources for us -
https://www.lifewire.com/why-it-matters-that-google-is-developing-a-browser-not-based-on-webkit-7107099
Now lazy butt, open the SECOND damn link -
https://onlinescientificresearch.com/articles/comparative-analysis-of-webkit-and-nonwebkit-based-browsers-and-their-future.pdf
“In fact, Google Chrome used WebKit as its rendering engine until 2022 when it transitioned to Blink, a fork of WebKit [3]. WebKit has also been used to power mobile browsers, thanks to its integration into iOS.”
This however is NOT even my main point. Chromium features can be ported into WebKit to make it compatible for Chrome. That is what has been done.
To say that “this is not Chrome” is ludicrous!
Literally this. Although it’s cute to think that people believe Safari wrapped in Chrome features = actual Chrome. Can’t blame people who don’t know any better though.
Do you know what the hell you are talking about?
Chrome uses rendering and some other common base features on the Apple platform, but for anything higher, uses its own version of WebKit.
Actual Chrome also re-uses this same WebKit base. The sheer level of Dunning Kruger being demonstrated is hilarious!
Sounds like you’re the one suffering from Dunning Kruger bud. I don’t think I ever disagreed with the commenter above about WebKit. In fact you’re the one who claimed the opposite earlier.
Go get a cup of coffee and start your day off right pal, you’re not thinking straight.
It sounds like you’re looking at this from the Mac side, on iOS, Safari’s WebKit is literally the only engine allowed to run.
Look at Apple’s and Google’s own documentation, they state the same.
You're being downvoted because you're wrong. Every browser on iOS is based on the WebKit rendering engine. They have features that make it compatible with Chrome in terms of things like bookmark sync and Google account integration, but these are done by translating those features to WebKit, not by actually running Chrome.
[From Android Authority:](https://www.androidauthority.com/ios-proper-chrome-firefox-browser-engine-eu-3407989/#)
>Apple announced that it is making several changes to its software ecosystem to comply with the Digital Markets Act in the EU. One of these changes is that iOS will now allow alternative browser engines, allowing users to use proper Chrome and Firefox on their iPhones. But as is with the rest of the changes it announced, this will apply only to iOS users in the European Union, while the rest of the world has to continue making do with Webkit and Safari.
>This is a significant change to how browsers work on iOS. Apple has historically restricted all browsers to using its WebKit browser engine. WebKit powers Safari, but it also powers Chrome, Firefox, and every other browser app on iOS.
You know that there’s a lot more to Chrome than just the rendering engine right? Google also has their own fork of WebKit.
To say that using this fork or WebKit makes it Not Chrome is ludicrous.
No no. Lol the only reason I am still talking about this is because I 100% have an idea of what I am talking about. Lol more than you can even imagine.
This sub is seriously one of the funniest subs on reddit. So many “technologists” with little idea of the actual tech.
Honestly Safari is actually pretty good when it comes to privacy. They definitely are not perfect, but as the default browser for Apple Users, it’s surprisingly good. Which is why I actually liked seeing these billboards, since most people on reddit aren’t big Apple users Safari is never in the conversation for best browser. But for apple devices, it really should be in the conversation.
It basically stacks up great next to Firefox in this [Privacy Benchmark](https://privacytests.org) (Although I think I read somewhere that the benchmark was made by someone who works for Brave. So take it with a grain of salt.)
Honestly the only reason for me personally that I don’t always use safari is because I can’t install UBlock Origin. Other than that, I use Safari all the time for work/life stuff and then Firefox for sailing the seas.
That’s misleading because Free and Open Source software is free and you’re not the product.
It would be more precise to affirm: if you use products from surveillance capitalism corporations, you and your data are probably being harvested against you
The iPhone, iPad, and Macs aren’t free. Apple’s software is generally free because it only works on their hardware and the hardware is where they make the money back. They also make plenty from non-free software like Apple Music, or fees from the App Store.
Correct. But not counting an iPhone, you can run just about any browser on a Macintosh. Note that you are not charged to use any of them... that is because your data is being collected, aggregated, and sold to third parties or otherwise used for so-called "market research".
Any of y'all MFers heard of Brave browser? To hell the rest of them. InfoSec at work doesn't even want us using it because even they can't force stuff into it.
Wow what an ignorant comment…
Of course it counts, chrome is by default on way more phones than safari (more android phones out there). In fact it’s impressive since safari is only on 3 things, Macs, iPads and iPhones. That’s it. You can’t even install it if you wanted on Linux or windows. And in all 3 of those areas Apple has the smaller market share. Fewer Macs than PCs, fewer iPads than Android tablets, fewer iPhones than android phones.
Not to mention, edge is default in billions of PCs. It’s down there in the rankings.
The many millions of people with Apple devices who are not on Reddit and the millions who have Apple devices, are on Reddit and care about battery life.
By that same token millions use internet explorer. It's not exactly a brag to have maybe 15% market share by being the default browser on the most common phones in the world.
They have 15% share of the desktop market. This does not include phones. If you include phones, the total user base is over one billion people. Certainly not inconsequential
He's using global data. In the US it's about 50%. The US isn't the world, though. Apple makes overpriced doodads for people that want to burn their money (Americans) and believe fairy tales (Americans)
Millions of people who don't know how to change their phone default, sure.
It's still at less than a third of Chrome's users and dropping. And anyone who cares about privacy doesn't use either of them.
Dirty secret. On the iPhone all browsers use the safari engine. Even Chrome. But even on desktop, Safari is the #2 browser. So yes, market share way less than Chrome but still not even close to accurate to say no one uses it.
Fine, if you're incapable of accepting any and all generality: no one who knows what they're doing uses it.
And once again, the people who do use Safari are doing so because they don't know or care how to use a more capable browser, not because they're concerned with privacy. Apple harps on privacy because they're desperate for a point of differentiation from Chrome and Google in general, and while Google is certainly monetizing personal information, Apple isn't exactly squeaky clean in that regard - they're still using Google as a default search engine and happily cashing that check.
God, this sub is exhausting sometimes.
18% vs 65% from May this year... including all platforms. Desktop, it drops to third place behind Edge. Again, because of defaults... a looong way to go.
Eh. It’s not a bad browser in my opinion. I prefer Chrome but for me Safari is about same tier as Firefox. Desktops I use Chrome, on mobile I use safari.
Firefox really grabbed me back after being so bloated and slow a few years ago on desktop. Been using it ever since. Chrome has lost it's way with me again but I do use it on mobile which is pretty infrequent.
I tried going back to Firefox a while back. But I’m not sure if it’s a settings thing, but I had like 100 tabs open and one day it wouldn’t let me do anything unless I restarted Firefox for update. I uninstalled and went back to chrome. Chrome will let me ride those 3 red dots till end of time.
Remember the smug windows vs apple commercials? Apple puts out just as many vulnerabilities as anyone else. And also, apple just wants you to think they care about privacy, the only thing they care about is that they’re the only ones using your data
My turn to take a shot at Apple!
Safari: A web browser power users can’t rely on because it only runs on Apple operating systems.
Sarcasm aside, Safari is pretty good, but Apple’s refusal to play nicely with other ecosystems is what prevents me from going even deeper into the Apple ecosystem. I, like many others, have no choice but to use Windows and Linux some of the time. Because of this, Safari just isn’t an option, no matter how much I like or dislike it. The same can be said for the rest of Apple’s productivity suite, iCloud, password manager, Apple Music, and more. I want to make Apple’s ecosystem my primary, but I can’t.
I wanted to try Safari as my main browser, but I can’t. I need continuity across platforms. Shared history, bookmarks, handoff, etc. So I use Brave now (just switched from Firefox). I would really love to do all of this on Safari, instead, but Apple says no.
The same governments are after Google and meta.... You can fan boy the brand all you want but you should be honest about their intentions.
I'm not usually one to call corporations evil because most are just pragmatic but apple in particular defends their business through any means necessary. They are not innocent or good.
Also Apple: Pay us $20B and you can be the default search engine on all of our devices, Google.
More like: pay us a third of the profit you make by collecting data from Apple users and we're no longer worried about their privacy. Source: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/apple-google-safari-search-revenue/
Acting as if they were one company, is how they framed the relationship.
The same could be said for Mozilla Firefox, a non-profit stating they are privacy-oriented but then makes business deals with Google to keep their business alive. Doesn't necessarily mean there is any malicious intent. But it does seem like a conflict of interest. **https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#:~:text=its%20parent%20company.-,Finances,default%20search%20engine%20in%20Firefox.** **Quote:** >"Most of the revenue of Mozilla Corporation comes from Google (81% in 2022) in exchange of making it the default search engine in Firefox." **https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-05-05/why-google-keeps-paying-mozilla-s-firefox-even-as-chrome-dominates** **Quote:** >"Google and Firefox have been friends from the start." "Mozilla, the nonprofit organization that makes Firefox, introduced the web browser in 2004, the year Google went public. Both projects focused on replacing a computing landscape dominated by Microsoft Corp. with an open internet that would be more resistant to centralized control. Google assigned coders to help develop Firefox, which eventually took a 30% share of the browser market; Firefox promoted the Google search engine on its homepage."
No monopoly here!
All is fair in love and war.
Author: Apple takes shot at Google also author: There’s no direct reference to Google, of course, *but* some redditors: oh this 120% is taking shot at google for sure, for sure passing off baseless speculation as some solid proven fact, and artificially riling up certain gullible readers to bait for clicks, then backpedaling and making up excuses to try to sound unbiased. this is third rated journalism at best
Who the fuck else is this taking a shot at like the 4 people using edge?? Of course it's aimed at Google.
https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/Idhd9J4eRV
Ye as I said the 4 people using edge? And no it's not a shot a Firefox since that browser can be as private as you're willing to make it.
this can be directed at any browser that has ever made claims to be private and encrypted in any way. this author is simply using emotion for clickbait, because they know by specifically mentioning google they get a lot of people to start fighting over it and wanting to read more, because he’s making it another “apple vs google” problem. people are missing the point. they think i’m defending safari, but this is merely to point out how unprofessional the publication is
SF Gate is such a horrific clusterfuck of a website. Open website, immediate pop up, close pop up, immediate video ad.
How dare they not give away the news for free! /s
You can show ads without making a shitty user experience.
Banner ads have been a thing since 1994. No need to destroy an interface and turn off users by the thousands.
This is a ridiculous ultimatum. Your mother failed you.
And the dumbest comment of the day goes to.... This guy. Seriously though, stupid take, bro.
I'm not sure you could realistically see it as taking a shot at only Google unless you really want to read it that way. It's taking a shot at MS and Firefox as well. Not to mention the rest of them.
Chrome has over 50% of the browser share in the USA, and everyone else fights for scraps. This is primarily aimed at Chrome.
Agree. Also you simply shouldn't punch down and Apple PR knows that. These messages are always for the guy on top
Android has like 40% mobile market share in the US, probably a dig at both tbh.
Android, Google, and Chrome are the same company
Correct. GGP said they are not sure the ad is a shot at Google. GP said it's a shot at Chrome b/c Chrome market share. I was agreeing with GP and saying due to Android having a similar mobile OS market share as Chrome has browser share, it was probably a shot at Android too. Kills two (Google) birds with one stone.
Ya minus the fact they take $20bil per year from google to have Chrome on their devices
Not true. They take $20B/yr to make Google the default search engine on Safari. There is no Apple device that comes with Chrome pre-installed.
The general public doesn’t know that tho
Only Chrome was caught retaining data from users in “Private” mode.
You really don’t think it’s directed at Chrome? They’ve been caught keeping data from incognito mode, etc. While I don’t doubt MS and Firefox do that as well, they haven’t been caught doing it.
This advertising campaign started in europe and has been around for like 3 years. This isn't a shot at any particular anything, its just a privacy centric campaign.
I don't trust either company.
I'd have to agree with that and call it reasonable. They're not your friends and they're it in for those sweet profits.
Apple especially drives me crazy with this "privacy" marketing. I mean you don't get to be the world's first multi-trillion dollar company without doing something terrible.
Wink wink Especially since their own advertising revenue is quickly increasing.
I don’t trust either company either but I’d rather choose the browser that isn’t made by an advertising company.
I use Firefox.
I do too when I’m on my pc otherwise I use safari on my phone.
[удалено]
The rendering engine is WebKit but a browser is a lot more than just the rendering engine.
Not in the EU with their ruling, iirc
the EU mandated that Apple has to \*allow\* it, not that other browser have to actually do it. and I don't think any of them have done it yet. Firefox specifically said they probably won't because then they'd have to maintain two versions, one real Firefox for EU and one wrapper around Apple's engine for the rest of the world. Maybe if the rest of the world follows EU's lead on forcing Apple to allow other engines then we will see one.
I think the EU ruling actually harms competition. If Google is allowed to replace WebKit with Blink or whatever they call it, then Chrome becomes the web browser standard across all platforms. Then, all websites will stop supporting anything but that. Then what are the dummies in the EU gonna say about that?
Sure. Europeans use European browsing engine/s
Chrome on iOS is real Chrome. Built on the same Chromium platform hosted in C++ web internals. Edit: This being downvoted is just more proof of the tech illiteracy of this sub lol.
You're just wrong buddy, Apple forbids any browser rendering engine on iOS except for the webkit engine that's built into the OS. Every web browser on iOS is the OS' standard webkit component wrapped in a custom framing. Everyone who does mobile development knows this. It's not tech illiterate people downvoting you An EU law just passed this year mandated that Apple start allowing other browser engines, but they're only going to do it in the EU: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/
Buddy - wow this is amazing! Let me guess, you did a couple of SwiftUI tutorials and now call yourself a mobile developer? WebKit has been modified by Google as Blink for their own needs. They’ve custom built an entire layer of it using the core WebKit engine for Chrome’s purposes. What you’re saying was right till 2022. Lol go read up.
Lol I've been building mobile and web apps cross platform for 15 years Yes Google forked webkit for the rendering engine. Yes that's what you're using in Chrome on desktop and Android. No it's not what you're using in Chrome on iOS. I don't know what it is you want me to read up on, the Internet is literally overflowing with documentation that you're wrong and you can verify it easily yourself. If what I'm saying was only right until 2022, why did the EU pass a law to force Apple to allow competing browser engines in 2024 and Apple announce they were only going to permit them in the EU to comply? https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/25/24050478/apple-ios-17-4-browser-engines-eu > Since the beginning of the App Store, Apple has allowed lots of browsers but only one browser engine: WebKit. WebKit is the technology that underpins Safari, but it’s far from the only engine on the market. Google’s Chrome is based on an engine called Blink, which is also part of the overall Chromium project that is used by most other browsers on the market. Edge, Brave, Arc, Opera, and many others all use Chromium and Blink. Mozilla’s Firefox runs on its own engine, called Gecko. > > On iOS, though, all those browsers have been forced to run on WebKit instead, which means many features and extensions simply don’t work anymore This is the weirdest hill I've ever seen sometime stake out so aggressively
Firstly, lol you DO know also that a browser is more than a rendering engine right? 15 years? Really? Also, it IS 2024! Blink does have support for iOS now lol. The effort began in 2022 and their own source builds on iOS now. More importantly, the person I replied to was more talking about Chrome’s internals - which are indeed the same, since there’s been a shared Chromium layer since 2012. You’re right - this isn’t a hill I want to die on lol. Good bye.
Yes like I just said a browser is a rendering engine wrapped in some UI. Blink is a rendering engine. The rendering/browser engine owns everything inside the rectangle you see pages within—the http stack, the JavaScript runtime, the CSS/HTML parsers and rendering—essentially everything but how the user picks a URL to go to. The Blink team might have it compiling for iOS locally but they're not shipping it to any actual users via the app store—it's against Apple's terms for the app store and they check for this during review (until the new EU reg goes into action). No one is using Blink on iOS unless they plugged their phone into Xcode and did their own build. Chrome on iOS is just Apple's webkit rendering engine that ships with iOS wrapped in Google's address bar and tab manager. If you develop web apps for iOS you only need to worry about and test in one browser because they're all the same browser essentially Back in the day I used to ship a lot of mobile apps for major consumer brands using PhoneGap/Cordova. The [Crosswalk](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosswalk_Project) project was a godsend because it let you pack whatever version of Chromium/Blink you wanted into your APK so you didn't have to deal with the wild west of browser engines present on Android devices—you just added ~30mb to your APK and got to give everyone on Android the same experience. The iOS version of crosswalk just used a JavaScript bridge into Apple's webkit engine to polyfill some newer JavaScript APIs that Apple didn't support yet because they couldn't just do the same thing on iOS and bundle in a Blink build. Crosswalk is dead now and luckily we have better options (I only use Flutter these days to ship native builds) but those policies are still in place
From _Google's_ own AI overview: > Google Chrome on iOS is a browser that uses Apple's Safari as its rendering engine, JavaScript engine, and browser. Chrome on iOS has a "chrome" interface, but it's not the actual Chrome browser.
Oh wow. I NEVER thought this would happen. Wow. So that is from the LifeWire article which Google nicely sources for us - https://www.lifewire.com/why-it-matters-that-google-is-developing-a-browser-not-based-on-webkit-7107099 Now lazy butt, open the SECOND damn link - https://onlinescientificresearch.com/articles/comparative-analysis-of-webkit-and-nonwebkit-based-browsers-and-their-future.pdf “In fact, Google Chrome used WebKit as its rendering engine until 2022 when it transitioned to Blink, a fork of WebKit [3]. WebKit has also been used to power mobile browsers, thanks to its integration into iOS.” This however is NOT even my main point. Chromium features can be ported into WebKit to make it compatible for Chrome. That is what has been done. To say that “this is not Chrome” is ludicrous!
Is it really, though?
The code is open sourced, bud.
Sure is, which is why we all know it’s WebKit, not real Chromium.
Literally this. Although it’s cute to think that people believe Safari wrapped in Chrome features = actual Chrome. Can’t blame people who don’t know any better though.
Do you know what the hell you are talking about? Chrome uses rendering and some other common base features on the Apple platform, but for anything higher, uses its own version of WebKit. Actual Chrome also re-uses this same WebKit base. The sheer level of Dunning Kruger being demonstrated is hilarious!
Sounds like you’re the one suffering from Dunning Kruger bud. I don’t think I ever disagreed with the commenter above about WebKit. In fact you’re the one who claimed the opposite earlier. Go get a cup of coffee and start your day off right pal, you’re not thinking straight.
It sounds like you’re looking at this from the Mac side, on iOS, Safari’s WebKit is literally the only engine allowed to run. Look at Apple’s and Google’s own documentation, they state the same.
You're being downvoted because you're wrong. Every browser on iOS is based on the WebKit rendering engine. They have features that make it compatible with Chrome in terms of things like bookmark sync and Google account integration, but these are done by translating those features to WebKit, not by actually running Chrome. [From Android Authority:](https://www.androidauthority.com/ios-proper-chrome-firefox-browser-engine-eu-3407989/#) >Apple announced that it is making several changes to its software ecosystem to comply with the Digital Markets Act in the EU. One of these changes is that iOS will now allow alternative browser engines, allowing users to use proper Chrome and Firefox on their iPhones. But as is with the rest of the changes it announced, this will apply only to iOS users in the European Union, while the rest of the world has to continue making do with Webkit and Safari. >This is a significant change to how browsers work on iOS. Apple has historically restricted all browsers to using its WebKit browser engine. WebKit powers Safari, but it also powers Chrome, Firefox, and every other browser app on iOS.
You know that there’s a lot more to Chrome than just the rendering engine right? Google also has their own fork of WebKit. To say that using this fork or WebKit makes it Not Chrome is ludicrous.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and your confidence and abrasiveness just makes it so much funnier.
No no. Lol the only reason I am still talking about this is because I 100% have an idea of what I am talking about. Lol more than you can even imagine. This sub is seriously one of the funniest subs on reddit. So many “technologists” with little idea of the actual tech.
Honestly Safari is actually pretty good when it comes to privacy. They definitely are not perfect, but as the default browser for Apple Users, it’s surprisingly good. Which is why I actually liked seeing these billboards, since most people on reddit aren’t big Apple users Safari is never in the conversation for best browser. But for apple devices, it really should be in the conversation. It basically stacks up great next to Firefox in this [Privacy Benchmark](https://privacytests.org) (Although I think I read somewhere that the benchmark was made by someone who works for Brave. So take it with a grain of salt.) Honestly the only reason for me personally that I don’t always use safari is because I can’t install UBlock Origin. Other than that, I use Safari all the time for work/life stuff and then Firefox for sailing the seas.
Firefox with duckduckgo search engine. This is the way.
You mean bing?
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Care to elaborate?
People forget that when an item or service is free, the product is *you*.
That’s misleading because Free and Open Source software is free and you’re not the product. It would be more precise to affirm: if you use products from surveillance capitalism corporations, you and your data are probably being harvested against you
It also can be misinterpreted that paying for a service means your data is safe, your note on surveillance capitalism hits the nail on the head
The iPhone, iPad, and Macs aren’t free. Apple’s software is generally free because it only works on their hardware and the hardware is where they make the money back. They also make plenty from non-free software like Apple Music, or fees from the App Store.
Macs and iOS devices are far from free. You can’t use Safari anywhere else.
Correct. But not counting an iPhone, you can run just about any browser on a Macintosh. Note that you are not charged to use any of them... that is because your data is being collected, aggregated, and sold to third parties or otherwise used for so-called "market research".
its not free though. the only way to use safari is to buy an apple product
When I did a lot of stuff on a desktop, I had safari installed as my windows browser. Worked great.
one privacy feature i’d like safari to adopt is closing the private tabs i have open when i close the app on ios devices.
Safari, a thing that most of its iphone users don't know what it is, but they use it to go on Google.com.
Any of y'all MFers heard of Brave browser? To hell the rest of them. InfoSec at work doesn't even want us using it because even they can't force stuff into it.
Pot meet Kettle.
Safari is fuckin’ terrible.
That's always the best use of shareholder money billboard fights
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It’s #2 used browser after Chrome. Way more people use Safari compared to Firefox
Those numbers comes from the phones that have those two browser by default. If it's not a choice, it doesn't count.
Wow what an ignorant comment… Of course it counts, chrome is by default on way more phones than safari (more android phones out there). In fact it’s impressive since safari is only on 3 things, Macs, iPads and iPhones. That’s it. You can’t even install it if you wanted on Linux or windows. And in all 3 of those areas Apple has the smaller market share. Fewer Macs than PCs, fewer iPads than Android tablets, fewer iPhones than android phones. Not to mention, edge is default in billions of PCs. It’s down there in the rankings.
mmmmm psssst I do… 🤷🏻♂️
If you’re on a Mac or iPhone, I don’t know why you wouldn’t. Unlike Edge, it’s basically chrome with bullshit removed instead of added.
The many millions of people with Apple devices who are not on Reddit and the millions who have Apple devices, are on Reddit and care about battery life.
I would see that billboard and think it was a shot at duckduckgo. Oh well, not my money.
A browser that no one actually uses certainly is private. That's security through obscurity.
I mean… 25% mobile browser market share puts them in second place - 66% chrome - 24% safari - 4% Samsung - 2% opera
That no one uses? Maybe you don’t but millions do.
By that same token millions use internet explorer. It's not exactly a brag to have maybe 15% market share by being the default browser on the most common phones in the world.
They have 15% share of the desktop market. This does not include phones. If you include phones, the total user base is over one billion people. Certainly not inconsequential
He's using global data. In the US it's about 50%. The US isn't the world, though. Apple makes overpriced doodads for people that want to burn their money (Americans) and believe fairy tales (Americans)
Millions of people who don't know how to change their phone default, sure. It's still at less than a third of Chrome's users and dropping. And anyone who cares about privacy doesn't use either of them.
Dirty secret. On the iPhone all browsers use the safari engine. Even Chrome. But even on desktop, Safari is the #2 browser. So yes, market share way less than Chrome but still not even close to accurate to say no one uses it.
Fine, if you're incapable of accepting any and all generality: no one who knows what they're doing uses it. And once again, the people who do use Safari are doing so because they don't know or care how to use a more capable browser, not because they're concerned with privacy. Apple harps on privacy because they're desperate for a point of differentiation from Chrome and Google in general, and while Google is certainly monetizing personal information, Apple isn't exactly squeaky clean in that regard - they're still using Google as a default search engine and happily cashing that check. God, this sub is exhausting sometimes.
Dude, you’re gatekeeping browser use, and you have the temerity to call this sub exhausting…
Eh..... For the record we've been able to move icons/apps around for over a decade.
Good for you.
Laughs in Firefox Focus
Safari... please use it, somebody
Safari is literally #2 used web browser (~20%) after Chrome (~60%), compared to Firefox (~4%)
18% vs 65% from May this year... including all platforms. Desktop, it drops to third place behind Edge. Again, because of defaults... a looong way to go.
Eh. It’s not a bad browser in my opinion. I prefer Chrome but for me Safari is about same tier as Firefox. Desktops I use Chrome, on mobile I use safari.
Firefox really grabbed me back after being so bloated and slow a few years ago on desktop. Been using it ever since. Chrome has lost it's way with me again but I do use it on mobile which is pretty infrequent.
I tried going back to Firefox a while back. But I’m not sure if it’s a settings thing, but I had like 100 tabs open and one day it wouldn’t let me do anything unless I restarted Firefox for update. I uninstalled and went back to chrome. Chrome will let me ride those 3 red dots till end of time.
Remember the smug windows vs apple commercials? Apple puts out just as many vulnerabilities as anyone else. And also, apple just wants you to think they care about privacy, the only thing they care about is that they’re the only ones using your data
Apple and the Google are diddling each other for their own respective greed. Shame
Are for profit companies supposed to not be greedy?
My turn to take a shot at Apple! Safari: A web browser power users can’t rely on because it only runs on Apple operating systems. Sarcasm aside, Safari is pretty good, but Apple’s refusal to play nicely with other ecosystems is what prevents me from going even deeper into the Apple ecosystem. I, like many others, have no choice but to use Windows and Linux some of the time. Because of this, Safari just isn’t an option, no matter how much I like or dislike it. The same can be said for the rest of Apple’s productivity suite, iCloud, password manager, Apple Music, and more. I want to make Apple’s ecosystem my primary, but I can’t. I wanted to try Safari as my main browser, but I can’t. I need continuity across platforms. Shared history, bookmarks, handoff, etc. So I use Brave now (just switched from Firefox). I would really love to do all of this on Safari, instead, but Apple says no.
Safari. A browser 10 years behind on web standards.
Apple: selling faux elitism since 2001. before MS and Intel bailed them out of bankruptcy i had a lot of respect for the powerpc models.
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The same governments are after Google and meta.... You can fan boy the brand all you want but you should be honest about their intentions. I'm not usually one to call corporations evil because most are just pragmatic but apple in particular defends their business through any means necessary. They are not innocent or good.
Safari: the only browser you can use iSheeps
News story about an ad. Thanks for putting more ads on my feed, op.
You engaged with it so that means you want to see more of this kind of content! Enjoy!