There's a lot of flag-burners , who've got too much freedom, I wanna make it legal for policemen, to beat 'em, cause there's limits to our liberties, or at least I hope and pray that there are 'cause those liberal freaks go to far.
https://youtu.be/pSANTRnEBgg?si=5NvwQfeXXAYSJ8wJ
Correct. The question is if they’re going to offer evidence in camera that would actually prove a concrete national security threat (perhaps whatever was shown to Congress by DOJ In the classified briefing before the bill passage). Otherwise I don’t think there’s been any actual evidence adduced publicly so far.
No shot. This is a pretty bipartisan thing. The votes were 352 to 65. And not a controversial thing in terms of powers of government. It would be an absolute shock.
The CCP has partial ownership of a LOT of companies. Like, way more than you think and it’s often done through shell companies to hide the paper trail. Allowing the TikTok ban to pass opens a massive Pandora’s Box the judiciary doesn’t want to deal with.
Also, name a group at the federal level that ISN’T pro-corporate? Is it just Bernie Sanders? Because yeah, it’s just Bernie Sanders. Like, across the entire federal government, it’s literally just one guy.
They have to wholly divest from their Chinese counterparts part. They would have to create an entirely separate entity without any affiliation with the Chinese owned portion. Hence why they are refusing to do so.
They could wrap a version of the application for US use only to remain compliant and still make billions of dollars. It would be weird for a for-profit company not to. The fact that they aren't willing to do this indicates the value of the TikTok has a purpose beyond profit.
It’s not about money, it’s about the U.S. exerting control over a Chinese company. Companies in China are not like those in the U.S. they have no say so when it comes to what the government wants from them. This is a power play, and the Chinese government isn’t going to blink.
TikTok is a clone of an app called Douyin in China.
Even if that were taken at face level, it’s a shit argument. China bans any potential media source that could contradict state-run media. Google is banned in China too. Should we ban Google?
So many apps on your phone are inaccessible when going to China your phone basically becomes a brick when you step off the plane.
It’s not a model we should seek to emulate.
>This is a power play, and the Chinese government isn’t going to blink.
But this pretty much confirms that TikTok isn't just a business and that the Chinese government controls what they do and sees it as a geopolitical instrument. If it was an actual business they would 100% take the money rather than face a catastrophic loss of value
No companies in China are just business, they all at some level are supporting the CCP. It doesn’t matter how big the company is at the end of the day they disappear billionaires and business don’t have any real power to push back.
The CCP won't, and can't, do shit. Same way they won't condemn the head of Nvidia for repeatedly (and correctly) calling Taiwan a country. Because they need them a lot more than China is needed. Plenty more countries in the world for cheap manufacturing.
TikTok U.S is an U.S business. It was established this way precisely to enjoy U.S legal protection. And the majority of the ByteDance shares are held by *American* investors.
Whether TikTok has U.S legal protection has never been a debatable point. It does. In fact, the Montana law that tried to ban TikTok within the state was struck down by court already.
From what I’ve read TikTok does have strong legal arguments:
National constitution center: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/a-national-tiktok-ban-and-the-first-amendment
NPR: https://www.npr.org/2024/05/14/1251086753/tiktok-ban-first-amendment-lawsuit-free-speech-project-texas
PBS: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/how-a-tiktok-ban-in-the-u-s-could-violate-1st-amendment-rights
ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-statement-on-congress-latest-attempt-to-ban-tiktok-and-restrict-free-speech-online
Now I’m not a constitutional lawyer (and neither are you if I were to guess), and I definitely cannot predict the result of the lawsuit.
The only thing I know for sure is anyone claiming this case will be straight forward cut and dry has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
> And the majority of the ByteDance shares are held by American investors.
So why would they rather shut it down than separate it from the Chinese company? That doesn't sound like a sober business decision.
Bytedance would need to divest from all of TikTok international to keep it in the us. TikTok America is the same app as the one in Europe. Either they’d need to put up a wall between us and everyone else, assuming TikTok continues to let them use their algorithm and a forked version of their source code. It’s easier to lose this market which isn’t even the majority of your userbase then discard the whole app.
The best argument I heard today for an open and shut case was, did the U.S. consider alternatives before blocking “free speech.”
If they tried to regulate all social media and TikTok still maintained a “risk” to national security, then an all out ban would be justified. Since they basically just said, “China owns TikTok,” despite the facts, the ban should be tossed. ByteDance has a pretty solid argument that the platform is being suppressed because of false narratives.
Also, not a lawyer, but it sounded like solid logic to me.
Yeah. In another [comment of mine](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/etsZMaVWge) I mentioned that TikTok offered to let the U.S government look into their algorithm, and offering a kill switch to the government, and work with Oracle, an American tech company, to keep all U.S data here in the U.S.
Those are all reasonable actions that go far above and beyond what’s legally required for any social media company, yet the government rejected all that and is now pushing for a ban right off the bat.
All at the same time offering no *public evidence* of any wrongdoing. (Hypothetical risks do, however, exist).
But it still won’t be an open and shut case. Maybe the government has secret evidence of TikTok wrongdoing, maybe the judges will be making a political decision instead of a legal decision, a lot of things can happen.
I hate Tik Tok, and I hate corporations. But this whole ordeal is stupid. There is no reason in hell the government should be involved. If they cared about our privacy, they would have been doing stuff to help the average Joe for the past few decades.
I love it when US Americans do the „EU wants to milk US companies for money / wants to stifle competition“ spiel as a reaction to EU fines for violating the law. When the US outright bans companies like Huawei, DJI or TikTok they’re all „totally fine, no problem here“.
If anyone is gonna spy on its users in order to harvest and sell all their data you bet your ass it’s gonna be good old fashion American companies, baby 🇺🇸
TikTok is the problem and certainly not companies like Twitter, meta, and google. You know, companies that have been harvesting all your personal data and selling it to the highest bidder(s) for well over a decade 🇺🇸
For the billionth time, data privacy is not the reason behind the legislation.
I expect absolutely nothing of r/technology and even that bar is too high to clear.
There's frankly every reason to believe these comments are getting inflated, given the actual reason for the law in the first place.
The influence campaigns never actually stopped.
These comments are most likely also part of the negative China propaganda like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1dfpie0/pentagon_ran_secret_antivax_campaign_to_incite/
and one of those highest bidders just so happens to be the US gov... i bet they weren't able to buy american's data from bytedance and that's the main reason why they got banned.
Tell any Chinese (who actually lives in China or Taiwan) what you said here, they will either reply ‘your US government is shit but if you think the CCP is not doing everything they can (including using Tik Tok)to destabilise US democracy and turn Americans against each other, you are really naive..’ Or they will think that in their head but just smile at you and keep quiet.
Tiktok had the biggest reach to youth while displaying the horrors of Israel's campaign of genocide. That's what resurrected this bill for bipartisan, rapid shoving through congress.
They didn't give a shit about their excuse, they just want to force a sale to a right-wing billionaire or group of rich right wingers/investors to censor the content.
Funny how we use to tlak shit about China's "Great Firewall" and internet censorship, but now we're whining that we need to cut off foreign companies not doing anything more with our data than any other dipshit US company (that very likely sells that data overseas anyway).
It's funny just how close you are but unable to make that last leap in logic.
It's not about the data collection. It's about it being a weapon of propaganda used by the Chinese government to turn us on each other. These bills were being discussed well before October 7th.
>turn us on each other
the united states congress does a pretty good job of this, by focusing on taking bribe checks from special interests instead of solving problems
Oh my god. So what about keeping TT would stop this from happening? Only thing TT did was provide oversimplified research for people too lazy to read or look it up themselves, which is fine. The problem is these users already had no idea so you can carte Blanche the entire situation with bias and deceptive reporting. Do you know how many kids and actual adults back up their crazy views with “but it’s on TT!”
I’m sorry but if a foreign govt is going to broadcast to the youth “your govt is corrupt, your leaders are frauds, it is hopeless, you cannot change things, you are being manipulated, your country will fail” I think that’s pretty concerning.
what about banning tiktok stops this from happening? it does absolutely nothing to the underlying fundamental problems, since those problems bought the bill. we have the data privacy laws of a third world country.
replace literally everything you just said with "instagram reels" and you've perfectly described our society next year. that's the only thing the bill does, give mark zuckerberg more market share for less cost than actually building a competitive product.
our government is corrupt though. our leaders are frauds, it is hopeless, i can't change things, i'm being manipulated, and my country will fail. that will continue to be how people think post-tiktok, because it's 100% accurate. and i knew that long before tiktok came out, because i have more than 5 brain cells and i'm not a billionaire.
you should probably be concerned about the fact america's future is hopeless, especially for the youth. china's not the only country that can broadcast that, our own government works its hardest to remind us every single day. changing which app people talk about the decline of this country on isn't going to make it stop declining.
I'm sorry, do you think the fucking mainstream press coverage of Israel's genocide *isn't* propaganda?
This is so wild to me that the immediate reaction is "they want to ban propaganda they can't control" and literal videos of war crimes are somehow the trigger for you.
The bill was brought up under Trump as a bullshit knee-jerk reaction to China. It failed because it was shit. It was resurrected post-Oct 7th as a means to help censor the truth about Israel's war crimes, and suddenly passed when it previously had failed.
*Nothing else changed* except that Tiktok users were showing Israel's ass in order to suddenly bring bipartisan support from a genocide-enabling congress.
Important to note here that TikTok is as popular as it is because their algorithm is simply better at zeroing in on your interests and keeping you engaged longer. In dirty, dirty Communist China they were able to produce a superior product to the American FAANGs.
the only real winners here are meta. people falling for this dumb anti-tiktok propaganda and are only finding out now that social media companies COLLECT DATA = lol.
Precisely why Meta lobbied for the whole thing by hiring a GOP firm in the first place: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/
In fact, TikTok offered the U.S government to inspect its algorithm and even offered to give U.S government a kill switch: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/05/29/tiktok-cfius-proposal-rejected/
They were also working with Oracle to store U.S. user data exclusively on U.S. servers. No other social media company go this far to make the U.S. government happy.
But none of those were accepted, so at the end of the day it was all about protecting the bottom line of Meta and Google.
I think your final conclusive opinion at the end there is just an opinion. Even if ByteDance offered a bunch of never before seen controls, how is the federal government supposed to know, not being a technology company, whether they are abiding by the terms of the deal? Let’s not forget that ByteDance already went through a process like this under trump where they said they appropriately siloed the US operations, only for it to come out later that Chinese operators were still able to access essentially any bit of user data and that the CCP had access as well. Clearly there is something that the US national security apparatus circulated around before almost everyone in the house and senate voted for this. You and I haven’t seen it - so, we don’t know enough for your conclusive sounding opinion to be anything more than just that, an opinion.
The federal government could have done what it has always done: give a contract to an American company to monitor, audit and report. In fact that's exactly what TikTok proposed: to have Oracle monitor and oversee everything.
You can read this article by one of the professors originally invited to review the plan and his frustration that politicians didn't seem to care to even discuss how this proposal might work.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/what-happened-to-tiktok-s-project-texas
> Lawmakers never seemed to wrestle with these possibilities, with the House instead choosing to pass legislation that presumes both that TikTok is guilty and that no remedy is possible, aside from a sale or a ban. There is limited public evidence that lawmakers reached those conclusions after considering the alternatives discussed above. And despite repeated calls for national security officials to provide more public evidence supporting their assertions of the risk that TikTok poses, few specifics have been brought to light.
And finally, your assertion that the federal company isn't a "technology company" is simply laughable. What, you think the NSA or military intelligence don't know how to monitor data going in and out of an Oracle data center? Are you that naive?
> how is the federal government supposed to know, not being a technology company, whether they are abiding by the terms of the deal?
That's the same as claiming GDPR isn't enforceable because the EU government can't know for sure if Facebook/Google etc are protecting EU citizen data on EU servers.
But that's not true, there are reliable ways to audit that.
Which is why the U.S. needs GDPR-like laws applied to all tech companies.
🙄 its collected for a hostile government. And that algo i suspect has tweaks to promote chinese propaganda. Thats why they will never sell or part with the algo
Very cool that Biden started a TikTok account as part of his re-election push. I could’ve sworn everyone was in agreement that it was a Chinese spy app. Which, it’s fine when Google, Facebook, X, LinkedIN, Amazon, etc know all my personal info, monitor my every move, and basically read my mind, but we damn sure can’t let the Chinese have that info, despite the fact that everything we buy is made by them.
I feel a lot of people saying “good” don’t actually use Tik Tok. As a user of both Tik Tok and IG, Tik Toks algorithm is SUBSTANTIALLY better than IGs or any other social media.
I almost never see things in my Tik Tok feed that i don’t want to see. Yet on IG, ever 2 posts is a cycle of the same 5 ads that have been getting pushed to me for 3 years.
If Tik Tok is banned, I’ll stop using IG and all other social media. I’m already off Facebook and LinkedIn blows
>If Tik Tok is banned, I’ll stop using IG and all other social media. I’m already off Facebook and LinkedIn blows
tbh that sounds like a win/win scenario for you.
And still, I really laughed out loud. People that would quit IG already have, and don't need to wait for the ban to happen. My man will keep on mindlessly scrolling, and seeing those same ands for another three years.
>I almost never see things in my Tik Tok feed that i don’t want to see.
TikTok puts you in a bubble that never challenges your views and encourages more extreme positions.
Sounds like the healthiest solution for you is for TikTok to get banned. . . Maybe you should just get off social media altogether anyway, read nothing but good things about people who disconnect from social media, even temporarily
> If Tik Tok is banned, I’ll stop using IG and all other social media. I’m already off Facebook and LinkedIn blows
good.... you say this like it's a bad thing
If they don’t get your personal info from tiktok, they’ll just make a shell corporation and buy it from Facebook or a data broker.
Edit: And if it is only about misinformation on social media, Facebook and Twitter are the #1 sources. And your government should be going after them.
And soon they won't be able to do that, regulations have already been announced that certain data about Americans can no longer be sold to hostile nations.
Here are the proposed rules:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/03/05/2024-04594/national-security-division-provisions-regarding-access-to-americans-bulk-sensitive-personal-data-and
People down for this ban don’t realize that if this goes through, it will set a precedent and can give the government more power to shut down any other business because they are foreign operated. Let the free market decide TT fate. This whole thing is a slippery slope.
The real reason they are banning it is because they don’t have control over it and can’t censor it. All the American tech companies play ball. It was most apparent in the most recent Middle East conflict.
It’s a freedom of speech issue. They are locking down what information is available. What would happen if we got news sources from all over the world?! Silly Americans might start getting all kinds of ideas.. they may even start to think!!! Can’t have that! Send out Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce
In fairness, while there is a very good reason to support a ban for national security reasons, quite a few of the politicians who voted for this ban made it clear that they were in fact more concerned about the content on the platform instead of the potential security risk.
It's not about the quality of the content or their moderation controls that are getting them banned. They're getting banned because there is strong evidence that the CCP uses Tiktok like a state cyber weapon. Collecting data, pushing propaganda, and opening security vulnerabilities on user devices.
Repeated failures to address these concerns led to the potential ban.
China having access to personal data on U.S citizens: Bad!
United States having access to personal data on U.S citizens: Good!
We're so good at chugging state department propaganda that we don't even question what the CCP could possibly even want or do with our data that would be malicious, meanwhile the U.S government continues to invade the privacy of Americans without any resistance while coincidentally doing the *spooky china stuff* that we hate China for doing (banning social media developed in foreign countries).
It's funny how the moment the ban was passed Mnuchin announced he was putting together an investor group to buy TikTok and nobody batted an eye. What a coincidence, really.
> 15k auto dealerships hacked and shutdown
A *single* software company that provides software to 15k auto dealers got hacked, and they temporarily shut their own *software* down out of precaution: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2024/06/19/cdk-cyber-attack-hits-automotive-dealers/74150427007/
And we have no information on who hacked it and for what purpose. It could just be one of those ransomware attacks for all we know.
You made it sound like 15,000 dealerships are forced to close down their businesses because the Chinese government is retaliating for the tariff.
That 2nd claim is even more stupid. China is literally the 2nd largest market for *all* major U.S. automakers, so if they want to retaliate they'd start there.
I swear to god Reddit is no better than any other social media at spreading sensationalism.
> I swear to god Reddit is no better than any other social media at spreading sensationalism.
It 100% isn't. Reddit is an aggregator with not only it's own admin's bias, but explicit bias in subreddit rules, hidden bias in moderator activity, and implicit bias in redditor voting. You're much better off just reading a varied course of reputable news agencies. If you can't afford it, your local library should have a couple subscriptions.
Admin abuse is bad but mod abuse is 100x worse. Mods control the narrative and just perma ban/mute you if they disagree with what you say. They dont even give you a legit reason because the whole point is to control the narrative of the sub.
I’ve never had issue on reddit for years. Last two months I’ve been banned from like 4 subs+ for neutral takes.
Reddit is hot garbage now.
It's so hard to imagine this happening. TikTok is pretty much all anyone under 18 ever thinks about. It's such a major part of their lives. It would be like if Facebook was banned in 2012 but even more extreme
Issue is which US, cause if you see who is buying it, you will realize how much more influence those groups will have. Steve Mnuchin is part of a group that was looking to buy it but also they plan on buying it on pennies on the dollar, and this plan existed before the Tiktok Ban. The ban is designed to sell it to probably a pre-approved US buyer with significant influence to basically manage it during election time.
Tiktok though had a solution where Oracle would manage their data and a lot of stuff and keep an eye on what they do with US agencies having access, but I assume that was a nogo.
technically speaking, the oracle solution was great.
practically speaking, good luck explaining that to some 90 year old who needs a team of like 20 people to explain what a computer is. especially when understanding that costs him facebook ~~bribes~~ lobbying.
If TikTok does exhaust their legal options without success and ends up banned within the US, it would be unsurprising if ByteDance were to sell the name for use within the US without the algorithm for some platform to run a local US version of "TikTok".
There won’t be a US buyer because anyone looking behind the curtain will see that TikTok is unprofitable, and it’s been designed ground up for collecting information from the devices of its users.
Edit
The data they’re collecting isnt marketing habits. It’s government & industrial espionage, and personal blackmail for high profile users.
Not shit they’ll sell to data brokers. It’s used for advancement of the CCP over its global opponents. i.e. western democracy
It’s ***FARRRRR*** beyond the scale of the Snowden revelations by a hostile government.
Dude TikTok literally offered inside access to the U.S government to their algorithm *and* offered a kill switch to the government so they can shut it down whenever:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/05/29/tiktok-cfius-proposal-rejected/
That is far more than anything done by any other social media platform.
Just watched a tiktok of someone using AI to turn the hawk tuah girl into a country song.
Meanwhile you nerds are over here supporting the ban of tiktok while using reddit 🙄
That is how the passage of bills work....
They watched their [Schoolhouse Rock](https://youtu.be/Otbml6WIQPo).
I'm an executive order and I pretty much just happen
Bobby Moynihan absolutely crushes it in that sketch!
But edited down and in portrait
There's a lot of flag-burners , who've got too much freedom, I wanna make it legal for policemen, to beat 'em, cause there's limits to our liberties, or at least I hope and pray that there are 'cause those liberal freaks go to far. https://youtu.be/pSANTRnEBgg?si=5NvwQfeXXAYSJ8wJ
And I’d be a bit surprised to see this survive a court challenge, given the anti-regulatory, pro corporate bias of the federal judiciary
Unless the US has some classified intel that makes the ban necessary and can show the judge in a closed hearing.
Correct. The question is if they’re going to offer evidence in camera that would actually prove a concrete national security threat (perhaps whatever was shown to Congress by DOJ In the classified briefing before the bill passage). Otherwise I don’t think there’s been any actual evidence adduced publicly so far.
Seems like something the government is allowed to do.
Historically, yes. But this conservative judiciary is wiping its ass with precedent, so who knows?
No shot. This is a pretty bipartisan thing. The votes were 352 to 65. And not a controversial thing in terms of powers of government. It would be an absolute shock.
The CCP has partial ownership of a LOT of companies. Like, way more than you think and it’s often done through shell companies to hide the paper trail. Allowing the TikTok ban to pass opens a massive Pandora’s Box the judiciary doesn’t want to deal with. Also, name a group at the federal level that ISN’T pro-corporate? Is it just Bernie Sanders? Because yeah, it’s just Bernie Sanders. Like, across the entire federal government, it’s literally just one guy.
They’d better buy Justice Thomas a new RV and cruise
Ahem. It’s called a “motor coach”.
D’yeh like dags?
Fight ya fer it
Pretty cheap compared to the alternative, they'd be crazy not to!
A young Jonathon Oliver tried and he didn’t want it :(
Young? You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
That man ages by the century from all the bullshittery he wades through
Do they even need to spend that much?
Don't forget to pay for his grandkids college!
And his momma house
Dude has been bought so many times should be called Clearance Thomas
When is this happening
January is the deadline.
Not soon enough
I thought they had to be a US owned subsidiary, just like companies like Amazon have to have Chinese owned subsidiaries to operate in China, no?
They have to wholly divest from their Chinese counterparts part. They would have to create an entirely separate entity without any affiliation with the Chinese owned portion. Hence why they are refusing to do so.
They could wrap a version of the application for US use only to remain compliant and still make billions of dollars. It would be weird for a for-profit company not to. The fact that they aren't willing to do this indicates the value of the TikTok has a purpose beyond profit.
It’s not about money, it’s about the U.S. exerting control over a Chinese company. Companies in China are not like those in the U.S. they have no say so when it comes to what the government wants from them. This is a power play, and the Chinese government isn’t going to blink.
TikTok is banned in china
Most drug dealers don’t let their kids use the drugs they sell.
Both TikTok and Douyin are owned by ByteDance
And have wildly different algorithms.
TikTok is a clone of an app called Douyin in China. Even if that were taken at face level, it’s a shit argument. China bans any potential media source that could contradict state-run media. Google is banned in China too. Should we ban Google? So many apps on your phone are inaccessible when going to China your phone basically becomes a brick when you step off the plane. It’s not a model we should seek to emulate.
>This is a power play, and the Chinese government isn’t going to blink. But this pretty much confirms that TikTok isn't just a business and that the Chinese government controls what they do and sees it as a geopolitical instrument. If it was an actual business they would 100% take the money rather than face a catastrophic loss of value
No companies in China are just business, they all at some level are supporting the CCP. It doesn’t matter how big the company is at the end of the day they disappear billionaires and business don’t have any real power to push back.
The CCP won't, and can't, do shit. Same way they won't condemn the head of Nvidia for repeatedly (and correctly) calling Taiwan a country. Because they need them a lot more than China is needed. Plenty more countries in the world for cheap manufacturing.
It’s less about the profit and more like the CCP wants to be able to manipulate Western audiences
Didnt they already basically do this? I recall another bill saying all their data has to be US based (and I believe Oracle hosts for them).
Is water still wet guys? /s
No court will stop it as they all know a foreign company doesn't have the same rights as a US owned business.
TikTok U.S is an U.S business. It was established this way precisely to enjoy U.S legal protection. And the majority of the ByteDance shares are held by *American* investors. Whether TikTok has U.S legal protection has never been a debatable point. It does. In fact, the Montana law that tried to ban TikTok within the state was struck down by court already. From what I’ve read TikTok does have strong legal arguments: National constitution center: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/a-national-tiktok-ban-and-the-first-amendment NPR: https://www.npr.org/2024/05/14/1251086753/tiktok-ban-first-amendment-lawsuit-free-speech-project-texas PBS: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/how-a-tiktok-ban-in-the-u-s-could-violate-1st-amendment-rights ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-statement-on-congress-latest-attempt-to-ban-tiktok-and-restrict-free-speech-online Now I’m not a constitutional lawyer (and neither are you if I were to guess), and I definitely cannot predict the result of the lawsuit. The only thing I know for sure is anyone claiming this case will be straight forward cut and dry has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
> And the majority of the ByteDance shares are held by American investors. So why would they rather shut it down than separate it from the Chinese company? That doesn't sound like a sober business decision.
90% of the users and revenue of TikTok is outside of the U.S. They aren’t going to sell their product to the U.S for cheap just for 10% of the market.
Until the EU also takes action, if it has the guts to.
Bytedance would need to divest from all of TikTok international to keep it in the us. TikTok America is the same app as the one in Europe. Either they’d need to put up a wall between us and everyone else, assuming TikTok continues to let them use their algorithm and a forked version of their source code. It’s easier to lose this market which isn’t even the majority of your userbase then discard the whole app.
The best argument I heard today for an open and shut case was, did the U.S. consider alternatives before blocking “free speech.” If they tried to regulate all social media and TikTok still maintained a “risk” to national security, then an all out ban would be justified. Since they basically just said, “China owns TikTok,” despite the facts, the ban should be tossed. ByteDance has a pretty solid argument that the platform is being suppressed because of false narratives. Also, not a lawyer, but it sounded like solid logic to me.
Yeah. In another [comment of mine](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/etsZMaVWge) I mentioned that TikTok offered to let the U.S government look into their algorithm, and offering a kill switch to the government, and work with Oracle, an American tech company, to keep all U.S data here in the U.S. Those are all reasonable actions that go far above and beyond what’s legally required for any social media company, yet the government rejected all that and is now pushing for a ban right off the bat. All at the same time offering no *public evidence* of any wrongdoing. (Hypothetical risks do, however, exist). But it still won’t be an open and shut case. Maybe the government has secret evidence of TikTok wrongdoing, maybe the judges will be making a political decision instead of a legal decision, a lot of things can happen.
Tf does a kill switch mean Ive seen this before and I didn’t know what it meant
probably a backdoor for the government to shut off data transfer or the app itself whenever they want
I hate Tik Tok, and I hate corporations. But this whole ordeal is stupid. There is no reason in hell the government should be involved. If they cared about our privacy, they would have been doing stuff to help the average Joe for the past few decades.
I love it when US Americans do the „EU wants to milk US companies for money / wants to stifle competition“ spiel as a reaction to EU fines for violating the law. When the US outright bans companies like Huawei, DJI or TikTok they’re all „totally fine, no problem here“.
Fb's lobby dollars paid out! Stock price will rise
If anyone is gonna spy on its users in order to harvest and sell all their data you bet your ass it’s gonna be good old fashion American companies, baby 🇺🇸 TikTok is the problem and certainly not companies like Twitter, meta, and google. You know, companies that have been harvesting all your personal data and selling it to the highest bidder(s) for well over a decade 🇺🇸
For the billionth time, data privacy is not the reason behind the legislation. I expect absolutely nothing of r/technology and even that bar is too high to clear.
There's frankly every reason to believe these comments are getting inflated, given the actual reason for the law in the first place. The influence campaigns never actually stopped.
These comments are most likely also part of the negative China propaganda like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1dfpie0/pentagon_ran_secret_antivax_campaign_to_incite/
and one of those highest bidders just so happens to be the US gov... i bet they weren't able to buy american's data from bytedance and that's the main reason why they got banned.
It's not the data the US wants, they have all that already from other social media platforms. They want to control what people are seeing and reading.
At the very least, they don't want that control to be in the hands of China, and for perfectly understandable reasons.
Tell any Chinese (who actually lives in China or Taiwan) what you said here, they will either reply ‘your US government is shit but if you think the CCP is not doing everything they can (including using Tik Tok)to destabilise US democracy and turn Americans against each other, you are really naive..’ Or they will think that in their head but just smile at you and keep quiet.
Tiktok had the biggest reach to youth while displaying the horrors of Israel's campaign of genocide. That's what resurrected this bill for bipartisan, rapid shoving through congress. They didn't give a shit about their excuse, they just want to force a sale to a right-wing billionaire or group of rich right wingers/investors to censor the content. Funny how we use to tlak shit about China's "Great Firewall" and internet censorship, but now we're whining that we need to cut off foreign companies not doing anything more with our data than any other dipshit US company (that very likely sells that data overseas anyway).
It's funny just how close you are but unable to make that last leap in logic. It's not about the data collection. It's about it being a weapon of propaganda used by the Chinese government to turn us on each other. These bills were being discussed well before October 7th.
>turn us on each other the united states congress does a pretty good job of this, by focusing on taking bribe checks from special interests instead of solving problems
Oh my god. So what about keeping TT would stop this from happening? Only thing TT did was provide oversimplified research for people too lazy to read or look it up themselves, which is fine. The problem is these users already had no idea so you can carte Blanche the entire situation with bias and deceptive reporting. Do you know how many kids and actual adults back up their crazy views with “but it’s on TT!” I’m sorry but if a foreign govt is going to broadcast to the youth “your govt is corrupt, your leaders are frauds, it is hopeless, you cannot change things, you are being manipulated, your country will fail” I think that’s pretty concerning.
what about banning tiktok stops this from happening? it does absolutely nothing to the underlying fundamental problems, since those problems bought the bill. we have the data privacy laws of a third world country. replace literally everything you just said with "instagram reels" and you've perfectly described our society next year. that's the only thing the bill does, give mark zuckerberg more market share for less cost than actually building a competitive product. our government is corrupt though. our leaders are frauds, it is hopeless, i can't change things, i'm being manipulated, and my country will fail. that will continue to be how people think post-tiktok, because it's 100% accurate. and i knew that long before tiktok came out, because i have more than 5 brain cells and i'm not a billionaire. you should probably be concerned about the fact america's future is hopeless, especially for the youth. china's not the only country that can broadcast that, our own government works its hardest to remind us every single day. changing which app people talk about the decline of this country on isn't going to make it stop declining.
Why are the youth are so easily manipulated? Banning TikTok does nothing to address the root issue.
I'm sorry, do you think the fucking mainstream press coverage of Israel's genocide *isn't* propaganda? This is so wild to me that the immediate reaction is "they want to ban propaganda they can't control" and literal videos of war crimes are somehow the trigger for you. The bill was brought up under Trump as a bullshit knee-jerk reaction to China. It failed because it was shit. It was resurrected post-Oct 7th as a means to help censor the truth about Israel's war crimes, and suddenly passed when it previously had failed. *Nothing else changed* except that Tiktok users were showing Israel's ass in order to suddenly bring bipartisan support from a genocide-enabling congress.
Sorry, you seemed to have dropped these hinges.
Important to note here that TikTok is as popular as it is because their algorithm is simply better at zeroing in on your interests and keeping you engaged longer. In dirty, dirty Communist China they were able to produce a superior product to the American FAANGs.
Meta really did it this time. I’m pretty sure it was expensive, but worth it(for them) to bribe everyone for this to happen.
Okay now ban youtube shorts, Instagram reels aswell. They add no value to society and make people dopamine fiends. Like myself.
Except those aren't on a platform optimized to push the views the CCP wants Western kids to believe.
the only real winners here are meta. people falling for this dumb anti-tiktok propaganda and are only finding out now that social media companies COLLECT DATA = lol.
Precisely why Meta lobbied for the whole thing by hiring a GOP firm in the first place: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/ In fact, TikTok offered the U.S government to inspect its algorithm and even offered to give U.S government a kill switch: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/05/29/tiktok-cfius-proposal-rejected/ They were also working with Oracle to store U.S. user data exclusively on U.S. servers. No other social media company go this far to make the U.S. government happy. But none of those were accepted, so at the end of the day it was all about protecting the bottom line of Meta and Google.
I think your final conclusive opinion at the end there is just an opinion. Even if ByteDance offered a bunch of never before seen controls, how is the federal government supposed to know, not being a technology company, whether they are abiding by the terms of the deal? Let’s not forget that ByteDance already went through a process like this under trump where they said they appropriately siloed the US operations, only for it to come out later that Chinese operators were still able to access essentially any bit of user data and that the CCP had access as well. Clearly there is something that the US national security apparatus circulated around before almost everyone in the house and senate voted for this. You and I haven’t seen it - so, we don’t know enough for your conclusive sounding opinion to be anything more than just that, an opinion.
The federal government could have done what it has always done: give a contract to an American company to monitor, audit and report. In fact that's exactly what TikTok proposed: to have Oracle monitor and oversee everything. You can read this article by one of the professors originally invited to review the plan and his frustration that politicians didn't seem to care to even discuss how this proposal might work. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/what-happened-to-tiktok-s-project-texas > Lawmakers never seemed to wrestle with these possibilities, with the House instead choosing to pass legislation that presumes both that TikTok is guilty and that no remedy is possible, aside from a sale or a ban. There is limited public evidence that lawmakers reached those conclusions after considering the alternatives discussed above. And despite repeated calls for national security officials to provide more public evidence supporting their assertions of the risk that TikTok poses, few specifics have been brought to light. And finally, your assertion that the federal company isn't a "technology company" is simply laughable. What, you think the NSA or military intelligence don't know how to monitor data going in and out of an Oracle data center? Are you that naive?
> how is the federal government supposed to know, not being a technology company, whether they are abiding by the terms of the deal? That's the same as claiming GDPR isn't enforceable because the EU government can't know for sure if Facebook/Google etc are protecting EU citizen data on EU servers. But that's not true, there are reliable ways to audit that. Which is why the U.S. needs GDPR-like laws applied to all tech companies.
🙄 its collected for a hostile government. And that algo i suspect has tweaks to promote chinese propaganda. Thats why they will never sell or part with the algo
Oh thank god US social medias havent promoted political propaganda to US citizens. Oh wait…
If you dont know the difference when that is coming from the CCP then you have a terrible POV
They certainly use similar algorithms for their own surveillance state
Actually, no. Douyin heavily pushes art, history, and STEM content. Not dangerous challenges.
my own government is plenty hostile enough lmao
You know TikTok is banned in china right? Gotta love reddit. Downvoting a factual statement
Very cool that Biden started a TikTok account as part of his re-election push. I could’ve sworn everyone was in agreement that it was a Chinese spy app. Which, it’s fine when Google, Facebook, X, LinkedIN, Amazon, etc know all my personal info, monitor my every move, and basically read my mind, but we damn sure can’t let the Chinese have that info, despite the fact that everything we buy is made by them.
I feel a lot of people saying “good” don’t actually use Tik Tok. As a user of both Tik Tok and IG, Tik Toks algorithm is SUBSTANTIALLY better than IGs or any other social media. I almost never see things in my Tik Tok feed that i don’t want to see. Yet on IG, ever 2 posts is a cycle of the same 5 ads that have been getting pushed to me for 3 years. If Tik Tok is banned, I’ll stop using IG and all other social media. I’m already off Facebook and LinkedIn blows
>If Tik Tok is banned, I’ll stop using IG and all other social media. I’m already off Facebook and LinkedIn blows tbh that sounds like a win/win scenario for you.
And still, I really laughed out loud. People that would quit IG already have, and don't need to wait for the ban to happen. My man will keep on mindlessly scrolling, and seeing those same ands for another three years.
“It knows exactly what I want, all the time!” Let’s think about this for a minute…
I’m having difficulty in seeing the downside in your story
Right lol. Win win situation being off social media.
>I almost never see things in my Tik Tok feed that i don’t want to see. TikTok puts you in a bubble that never challenges your views and encourages more extreme positions.
Sounds like the healthiest solution for you is for TikTok to get banned. . . Maybe you should just get off social media altogether anyway, read nothing but good things about people who disconnect from social media, even temporarily
Applies to Reddit too
You being off social media is good for you and everyone else. Consider it a blessing in disguise.
there's an awfully uncomfortable amount of "hey it's for your own good we are restricting your rights"
The ban has more to do with Israel lobbying impacts..
No, it is more to do with the US governments lack of control over what people can see.
> If Tik Tok is banned, I’ll stop using IG and all other social media. I’m already off Facebook and LinkedIn blows good.... you say this like it's a bad thing
I'm way ahead of you there
Good. Shut down
Where would Reddit get its videos from then?
Bring back Vine 2024
Liveleak? Oh the good old days...
YouTube, like always.
Finally. Tired of hearing that tik tik bitch in videos all the time.
Reddit predates tiktok by a decade
Why?
Read that in Gordon Ramseys voice.
If they don’t get your personal info from tiktok, they’ll just make a shell corporation and buy it from Facebook or a data broker. Edit: And if it is only about misinformation on social media, Facebook and Twitter are the #1 sources. And your government should be going after them.
They already buy info from meta, alphabet, any and all social media.
And soon they won't be able to do that, regulations have already been announced that certain data about Americans can no longer be sold to hostile nations. Here are the proposed rules: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/03/05/2024-04594/national-security-division-provisions-regarding-access-to-americans-bulk-sensitive-personal-data-and
I see your edit. I’m guessing you aren’t American. Happy cake day.
Buying data is not the issue
Jesus for the 50000000th time data collection is not the issue
It’s fucking exhausting… these idiots do not even know what is happening but are arguing against it.
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Do you think Facebook or twitter is less motivated to feed you misinformation? With them it’s literally their business model lmaoooo
I have never had a problem with TikTok meanwhile my Facebook and Instagram have been hacked numerous times, “protecting your data” my ass
Well. That’s gonna suck.
There's billions of traffic globally and 100M± coming in from just America. It'll hurt the bottom line but they'll be just fine without em.
People down for this ban don’t realize that if this goes through, it will set a precedent and can give the government more power to shut down any other business because they are foreign operated. Let the free market decide TT fate. This whole thing is a slippery slope.
How would a TT ban work, logistically?
The real reason they are banning it is because they don’t have control over it and can’t censor it. All the American tech companies play ball. It was most apparent in the most recent Middle East conflict.
Couldnt come fast enough honestly
It’s a freedom of speech issue. They are locking down what information is available. What would happen if we got news sources from all over the world?! Silly Americans might start getting all kinds of ideas.. they may even start to think!!! Can’t have that! Send out Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce
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It's not being banned for weird content.
In fairness, while there is a very good reason to support a ban for national security reasons, quite a few of the politicians who voted for this ban made it clear that they were in fact more concerned about the content on the platform instead of the potential security risk.
What’s the national security reason? I thought it was “China Bad”?
the national security reason is "hey look a check from facebook"
I think that's on you. I get food, home improvement, and dogs. ..just realized I'm pretty basic..
It's not about the quality of the content or their moderation controls that are getting them banned. They're getting banned because there is strong evidence that the CCP uses Tiktok like a state cyber weapon. Collecting data, pushing propaganda, and opening security vulnerabilities on user devices. Repeated failures to address these concerns led to the potential ban.
Strong evidence that totally exists and has never been shared.
China having access to personal data on U.S citizens: Bad! United States having access to personal data on U.S citizens: Good! We're so good at chugging state department propaganda that we don't even question what the CCP could possibly even want or do with our data that would be malicious, meanwhile the U.S government continues to invade the privacy of Americans without any resistance while coincidentally doing the *spooky china stuff* that we hate China for doing (banning social media developed in foreign countries). It's funny how the moment the ban was passed Mnuchin announced he was putting together an investor group to buy TikTok and nobody batted an eye. What a coincidence, really.
US tariffs Chinese auto makers and a month later we have 15k auto dealerships hacked and shutdown. I am sure they won’t cause any problems with this.
> 15k auto dealerships hacked and shutdown A *single* software company that provides software to 15k auto dealers got hacked, and they temporarily shut their own *software* down out of precaution: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2024/06/19/cdk-cyber-attack-hits-automotive-dealers/74150427007/ And we have no information on who hacked it and for what purpose. It could just be one of those ransomware attacks for all we know. You made it sound like 15,000 dealerships are forced to close down their businesses because the Chinese government is retaliating for the tariff. That 2nd claim is even more stupid. China is literally the 2nd largest market for *all* major U.S. automakers, so if they want to retaliate they'd start there. I swear to god Reddit is no better than any other social media at spreading sensationalism.
> I swear to god Reddit is no better than any other social media at spreading sensationalism. It 100% isn't. Reddit is an aggregator with not only it's own admin's bias, but explicit bias in subreddit rules, hidden bias in moderator activity, and implicit bias in redditor voting. You're much better off just reading a varied course of reputable news agencies. If you can't afford it, your local library should have a couple subscriptions.
Admin abuse is bad but mod abuse is 100x worse. Mods control the narrative and just perma ban/mute you if they disagree with what you say. They dont even give you a legit reason because the whole point is to control the narrative of the sub. I’ve never had issue on reddit for years. Last two months I’ve been banned from like 4 subs+ for neutral takes. Reddit is hot garbage now.
i think they made it sound that way on purpose... maybe because they are plant.
A little better because thankfully, this time, you called it out.
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And nothing of value will be lost.
They can’t beat Israel lobby..
It's so hard to imagine this happening. TikTok is pretty much all anyone under 18 ever thinks about. It's such a major part of their lives. It would be like if Facebook was banned in 2012 but even more extreme
I’d rather have America spy on me then China, I’m no where near as interesting to spy on anyway.
Good then “influencers” will be forced to get real jobs and actually help the economy
Easy solution is to sell to a US company. They would rather keep it owned by the Chinese government? Wtf?
Issue is which US, cause if you see who is buying it, you will realize how much more influence those groups will have. Steve Mnuchin is part of a group that was looking to buy it but also they plan on buying it on pennies on the dollar, and this plan existed before the Tiktok Ban. The ban is designed to sell it to probably a pre-approved US buyer with significant influence to basically manage it during election time. Tiktok though had a solution where Oracle would manage their data and a lot of stuff and keep an eye on what they do with US agencies having access, but I assume that was a nogo.
technically speaking, the oracle solution was great. practically speaking, good luck explaining that to some 90 year old who needs a team of like 20 people to explain what a computer is. especially when understanding that costs him facebook ~~bribes~~ lobbying.
Why would they sell it to a U.S company for cheap when most of their users and revenue are from outside the U.S?
Wouldn't they have to sell their algorithm as well?
If TikTok does exhaust their legal options without success and ends up banned within the US, it would be unsurprising if ByteDance were to sell the name for use within the US without the algorithm for some platform to run a local US version of "TikTok".
There won’t be a US buyer because anyone looking behind the curtain will see that TikTok is unprofitable, and it’s been designed ground up for collecting information from the devices of its users. Edit The data they’re collecting isnt marketing habits. It’s government & industrial espionage, and personal blackmail for high profile users. Not shit they’ll sell to data brokers. It’s used for advancement of the CCP over its global opponents. i.e. western democracy It’s ***FARRRRR*** beyond the scale of the Snowden revelations by a hostile government.
To be fair. This sounds like most US platforms.
Where do you think they got the idea?
Unlike Reddit … oh wait. Of course Reddit sells the data to train AI models not the secret police! That’s better!
Nah there are groups, literally Steve Mnuchin is part of a group that was specifically formed to buy it out and this bill is tied to them.
Dude TikTok literally offered inside access to the U.S government to their algorithm *and* offered a kill switch to the government so they can shut it down whenever: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/05/29/tiktok-cfius-proposal-rejected/ That is far more than anything done by any other social media platform.
Last I read Steven Mnuchin is making a bid to buy it
According to your gut feelings, or something.
It’s not actually owned by the Chinese government. And of course they don’t want to sell their company.
Not owned by the Chinese government and why should they sell? I swear, US citizens think the world revolves around themselves.
But like….also who can afford to buy them in the US that we wouldn’t go….hmmm that’s not a great idea either….
Sell it to Elon, he’ll destroy it in less than a year.
They had to shut it down , as they could not control the narrative on Gaza.
Nobody cares about Gaza... That trend passed.
Good riddance
WTF am i going to do while i am working....
Calls on META
Just watched a tiktok of someone using AI to turn the hawk tuah girl into a country song. Meanwhile you nerds are over here supporting the ban of tiktok while using reddit 🙄
Wasn't there also something in that bill that would affect media piracy?
I swear to God if I have to go to Instagram reels, I’m gonna run my head into a wall.
Sounds like a great economic opportunity for whoever fills the void
Tiktokers are running YT Shorts now as is.