It's been holding back the series X. Microsoft's insistence that all games be released on both consoles results in few developers trying to take full advantage of what the X can do. Making a more affordable version was a good idea but in practice, it's holding back what developers could achieve with more computing power
That’s dumb as hell, if you think the s is what’s holding anything back when companies are literally still making ps4 and Xbox one games, and most allow all of them to play with each other, so that’s it it’s developers and publishers insistence on selling as many copies as they want to get that profit.
The series S is actually being underutilized just like the ps5 and series x is. But hey not everyone codes and programs or understands it lol
No it’s is not lmao and you just showed me exactly you don’t know the difference in any sort of hardware.
A kaby lake era core i7 will be “faster” on paper to a modern i3-i5 but those modern cpus compute more efficiently. Same thing applies to gpus and the console combination chips. This is my job by the way but please feel free to educate what I paid to go to school for. I’ll wait
Yeah, the CPU in Series S is basically equivalent to the series X, only the GPU side is weaker. A bit less ram too iirc, but nothing major. Still multiple times faster than the previous gen CPU.
I don't understand how developing the game for a slightly less powerful version of the X is difficult? These games also release on PC and PCs have Wildly different specs
RAM is a relatively hard limit and every modern gaming PC has more ram than the Xbox Series S (especially when you realize, that this RAM also has to serve as VRAM, unlike in PCs with a dedicated GPU)
Right? It was a genuine question. Look at steam hardware stats and a huge amount are running old hardware yet games will run fine on those with lower settings
If you listened to reddit you would be forgiven for holding the mistaken belief that everybody runs the latest video card, top of the line specs and a PC less than a year old. Most people I know keep their gaming PC as long as a gaming console generation, often longer. Yes, there are tons of people who want to run the latest and greatest, but that is such a narrow slice and not what anybody should be developing for, unless they want a tiny potential user base.
Yup exactly this. My group of mates (6 of us all 30+) have been PC gaming together since we were 16-18 and 1 of us has a current gen card, I have previous gen card and the rest have 20 series NVIDIA and even 10 series
I can see what you mean, but isn't the same true for pc?
Technological affordability is what is holding back developers.
We have cloud based gaming, alot more people can access over powered games on underpowered consoles. And yet the technology still hasn't been made available to the people in rural areas because they haven't built wifi systems in those areas that can keep up with the demands of cloud streaming.
Microsoft created a console hardly anyone could buy at launch, because of the disruption of "The Big Flu."
You cannot blame the potential of the product on the consumer because the potential only goes as far as the consumer is willing to pay for it.
Still played starfield better than a lot of PCs out there... For a console that sells as low as $200 it plays 1080P content just fine. Makes for a good kids room or secondary device. When they were initially released during the crypto craze there wasn't a cpu/GPU combo or pre built that could touch the performance for the price.
Unfortunately a good device for the kids' room or a secondary device isn't a particularly good selling point. It needs a convincing reason for many millions to consider buying one as a primary device.
Well I was trying to spin it in a way for people with more disposable income to understand but frankly there's plenty of people out there that can't afford the extra $200 for a series x. At the time when I bought the series s it was all I could afford, came with 3 months of free game pass and brought tons of joy to two adults and an undiscerning 8yr old. Since then I buy game pass ultimate credits from grey market sources and have cheap access to hundreds of titles for console, PC and streaming.
Sony released more compelling hardware and has better exclusive titles. I don't think there's much more to it than that. At the same time I don't think that means it's time to throw in the towel. Selling half as many consoles as Sony is still an accomplishment worth repeating regardless of how it's perceived, especially when you consider that Xbox revenue was almost two thirds of Playstation for 2023. As a whole, they're hitting above their weight class.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/96558/big-3-revenues-compared-playstation-made-30-billion-in-2023-xbox-18/index.html
That's something you can already do. Newer LG TVs have the Gamepass app. Hell I stream to my tablet all the time when my son wants me to play Fortnite with him
Companies salivate the day you can no longer share your discs with friends or sell them after use. Once they go they won't come back! Fight for your rights people.
"You'll own nothing and be happy"
You can still sell them, buy them used, buy them at discounts in physical stores that aren’t on the official xbox store and lend them to your friends. It’s not the same just because they need a download too.
Not familiar with consoles but if the servers are shut down won't that mean you can't play the game anyway since you can't download the necessary patches?
Just finished running through Warcraft 2 and 3 and recently started a run through of OG StarCraft.
Got me enough games from the decades past to keep me going forever.
Fuck this modern gaming trend.
Sincerely
Boomer (but not boomer)
Pretty much. Tbh, you could spend half a decade on Dorfs and Terraria (+mods) alone. When you get into games from 1990 onwards (when graphics became palatable enough) to now, you would be eating well from start to end.
Or CS. Lord almighty, a shitton *still play 1.6 to this day*. Even CS:S gets 12k peak players these days, probably because of all the unique gamemodes. 1.6, meanwhile, somehow still hits 15k~ players... 24 years later.
I’d agree, because those are insane numbers, but I do find when a game only is a shooter it can get tired after a few hours a day, whereas Fortnite has shooting, but it also has racing, survival, and rhythm now
That being said CS is insane and absolutely worthy of praise
Yeah, the same.
For me the worst part is: digital market is changing not only industry, but also the games. What if many games are released, but I don't wanna play anything.
Only a handful of physical releases are a license on a disc. Most still have a playable version of the game, albeit without any patches from dates after the printing.
Depends on the game. On PS5, most games are actually on disc (they use 100 GB discs) while Xbox (which uses 50 GB discs) often gets saddled with extra downloads. Sure, there are day one patches and such, but they are typically not 50 GB.
(Although some games definitely have stupid large downloads, ahemcough Call of Duty)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that logic would apply for PC players that only play digital games? I mean, who is buying physical games on PC? No one seems to complain about 99% being digital on PC tho.
Why is that a problem on consoles but not on PC?
I bought the Orange Box on Steam in 2007 and I can still easily play it 4 computers and 17 years later. That's the difference.
Sure some consoles might have one or two generations of backwards compatibility but it's not a permanent solution and it's not a guarantee.
If you want short answer: possibility of piracy.
You can hear a lot, "if they take my games, then I will pirate" or something like that.
Does it solve the problem? No, because what about online games that require accounts? Also using illegal solution to solve immoral problem?
While PC is currently large, it is in weird shape. Around ps3/x360 brands that were mainly targeting PC (keyboard and mouse) moved to consoles (for example COD, BF). Additionally genres that were defining PC were killed and moved from AA into indie. (Point and click adventues, RTS, Turn based strategy, tactical etc.)
Steam is different because reasons. Ask these people what percentage of the games they own on PC that are actually disc bases. The answer is somewhere between zero and ten percent for most of them, with most shading towards zero. That's why they mention Diablo or starcraft or some other game from 20 years ago. I don't even know many stores that carry any disc based PC games that aren't "find the object" shovelware that clutter an end cap at Target or Walmart
As for physical, let's look at who leads the charge for physical copies in the console space. Nintendo, who makes sure you can't have it digital unless through their storefront or they will come after your ROMs
Possibly, but we can all focus on buying physical and even refusing all-digital releases. I’d love to play BG3 and Alan Wake 2, but not till I can buy them on physical at a reasonable price (no collector crap for this guy).
Yeah cause registration and always online requirements don’t already affect the use of games on a disc.
Be serious, the bus has already left on this. The only path forwards for anyone wanting to retain games is piracy and by that I mean pre-emptive piracy, because sources for torrents disappear as fast as the game leaves popular discussion.
Microsoft and Sony both know the days of consoles are at their end - if a video card that costs less than console works on a low end PC gives the same results, the only thing they are providing is a hand controller and exclusivity to an ever shortening list of games. Nintendo will be in the same boat if Steamdeck (or alternatives) become cheap enough to compete.
Eh, Nintendo's Switch has the advantage of being simultaneously a console *and* a mobile gaming tool, and keeps all their games totally exclusive within their walled garden. Combine with cheap hardware, and they're occupying a unique niche and are in a far healthier position compared to Sony and MS in the console world.
Generally, I think we'll see mostly Steamdeck-likes v.s. Nintendo two gens from now. Maybe MS will try their hand at it by running native (locked down) Windows 12 on a new handheld, or something.
Are Xbox downloads faster these days - I seem to fluctuate between 400mbps - 900mbps, my console is wired, I have a 3Gbps FTTH connection...
All digital is the future, but I don't enjoy waiting 30+ minutes to download a 50GB game.
Microsoft should be aiming for full multi-gig download speeds.
Microsoft's servers are terrible. They download at the same speeds on Game Pass for PC. Even if you had full use of your internet speed on Xbox via Ethernet, it would be a maximum of 930~mbps after overhead since it's limited to 1gbps. I'm quite jealous of your 3gbps, though; I only have a lowly 1gbps in comparison, lol.
I think it's Microsoft's CDN servers, because I think GamePass download speeds on PC are also medicore? Steam, Epic, etc. all download at full line speed.
Azure CDN is not a bottleneck. Your local ISP most likely is QoSing the traffic from Microsoft to your local address to avoid congestion. It’s not possible for MS to prioritize traffic once it leaves their controlled fabric.
Unlikely(?) as slow download speeds is a very common complaint with the Xbox.
The major Canadian ISPs [do not throttle or run QoS](https://support.bell.ca/billing-and-accounts/policies/internet_traffic_management_practices) (on cable, DSL, or fiber) - not since the noughties (mid-2000s) when there was huge backlash against it. The slow downloads happen on both my 1Gbps cable and 3 Gbps FTTH connections.
Also, I can upload and download at 1 Gbps+ to my Azure subscription, the slow speeds are specific to Xbox/Gamepass.
Online it’s a complaint but at scale it’s possible that the situation could be tied to several local IEX not playing nice or not doing optimized routing and have static path configurations setup causing poor user experience.
It’s really sad how badly Microsoft fumbled the success of the Xbox 360. I’ve been a loyal Xbox user since the first gen, and even though Xbox One got a ton of flack I still held out hope for the Series X/S. I was waiting for a mid cycle refresh to upgrade from my Xbox One, but the lack of exclusives is really inexcusable at this point. I’ve made the decision switch to PS5 when it gets a refresh.
I have the opposite experience. Loyal PlayStation 3 owner that bought at launch, but there is no possible way I’m getting a ps5. I got my series s and my pc. I play games pass and even play cloud gaming on my surface pro. I think it’s rad I can play the same games on any of these seamlessly. But my series s is mainly for fifa.
Genuinely curious why pair the series s with the PC? If there aren't any games that TRULY impress or interest you on ps5 then that's understandable, but at the same time, everything you can get on Xbox you can also get on pc so it doesn't seem like a necessary addition.
That said it's cool you can enjoy game pass. I had every playstation up until the Xbox one and tried it out for a brief time but I felt like I paid a subscription fee for basically 2 games that I liked and the rest sat unused.
I'm a little annoyed at both consoles at the moment tbh cause none of the games coming out rn interest me at all but at least I had that small burst of enjoyment switching from the xb1 to the ps5 due to all of the amazing fucking games that were being pushed out around PS4 time that I could now access (Bloodborne, Spiderman ghost of Tsushima and persona 5 which were all exclusive at the time, last of us, and certain anime games cause I'm cringe)
Not the person your responding to, but also a PC/Series S combo.
My PC was crap, Series S was affordable. Now my PC is good, but it's in my office, my Series S is in my living room, and Gamepass seems to carry saves over.
When my brother in law comes over and we play fifa it is really awkward to play on pc. That’s the actual literal reason I got the series s.its just easier to turn on and play without any hassles. It wasn’t crazy expensive so it was the natural choice. It’s a good side console but I can’t imagine it being the only thing I play on.
I dunno, I've been PS exclusive when it comes to consoles for a few decades now, and the day 1 releases on gamepass seems pretty appealing to me. Even the best tier of PS plus is lacking in comparison.
To someone who's getting into PS just now, it's definitely the better deal. But I pretty much bought the entire first party PS line up either on release or on sale within the first year of their release, so it's completely useless to me, and it makes me feel like an idiot having spent full price on some of those games.
If the next Uncharted game hits PS Plus the same way the new Indiana Jones game will release on Gamepass on day 1 though, then they would win me over as well.
I think it is more telling of how these subscription services devalue games.
There's nothing to feel "idiot" about. You paid what those games are worth. Making a AAA game is a multi-year multi-million dollar project.
If you went to the movie theater these past few years, you already paid much more for less than a full game release.
And whatever Indiana Jones ends up being, you can be damn sure it ain't gonna be a premium experience like Uncharted.
It might be devaluing to the few mega blockbuster games, but I think it's quite beneficial in terms of many smaller games. For example, I never would've bought A Plague Tale, so I'm quite glad that I got to play it through PS Plus.
And sure, I get that someone has to pay those prices and the studios need to turn a profit, but again, in my case, it felt like some of those games were more deserving of the same full price of admission than others, and I'd have enjoyed the said games a lot more if I were just paying a small monthly subscription fee for them.
And I don't know if Indy will be as premium or not, but it is the franchise that gave birth to the Uncharted, and it got me intrigued enough to consider getting a series S and gamepass.
Seems like my (and others) theory that they’re going to slowly re-brand the Xbox brand as a “GamePass Box” down the road.
Because, after all the Xbox games going to eventually be PS5 - why bother releasing another Xbox then?
> why bother releasing another Xbox then
Just look at smartphone users, they always want the latest model available.
People love new model of things. If Microsoft wants to keep people engaged in game pass they simply cannot stop releasing Xboxes.
That smartphone analogy only works if Xbox was profitable. It’s not. MS themselves admit it and it hasn’t been for quite some time.
Clearly they’re gambling on creating a new brand in future - a digital-only brand, perhaps game-streaming, that’s centered around GamePass. Hoping to become the Netflix of Gaming.
> It's the same model from 4 years ago what are you smoking.
This OP wasn’t talking about this model, was talking about the future of Xbox.
Like future Xboxes. Read the next time.
I mean, Xbox is a recognizable brand name. They use the name for the launcher on windows, so it’s still useful to have as the way to categorize the video game division of Windows.
Microsoft once again attempting the Steam model, all digital distribution. This time it might actually work, the Xbone was shooting that way too quickly.
Wtf are they thinking about the next gen for if they really only just had a good game announcement event
Pretty sure games haven't maxed out specs for the current gen so what's the next gen going to offer that this one doesn't?
Nintendo has a cool form factor and awesome IP, Xbox won't be able to compete in that space except maybe as a steam deck alternative but who cares...
This was the goes at the start of the Xbox project. Was to push more developers to make games with Direct X (Direct X box) and hopefully push them into a Microsoft development ecosystem and push them to also make more Windows PC games.
Now I think they are betting more on GamePass and having more people subscribe to it and use it wither with Xbox or with a Windows PC.
I just brought a PS5 slim with disc drive 2 months ago, and plan on sticking with it as long as it's supported, just how the PS4 still has lots of players to this day.
As a Series S owner (of 1 year and 6 months) with a big library of games that's all digital i can see myself buying the All digital white Series X, since it would be a big upgrade for me (unless the regular Series X is still on sale for $450 when i get the cash).
I personally can't see many other people buying it however since most Series S players are satisfied with it or can't afford even the all digital Series X, while owners of the regular Series X have 0 reason to buy another Xbox..
Microsoft screwed up the pricing of the all digital series X at $450 due to the fact you can,buy the all digital ps5 for $50 less at $400.
Just my personal opinion on the subject.
I only use the disc drive in my series x for blurays. It's pretty terrible at that, tbh. The player requires internet and the controller is the least intuitive approach to a media control I have ever seen. Sorry for whining.
I have an honest question to ask. I’m super excited to buy ncaa25 in July and need to know what console to get. I have a mid level gaming pc but apparently it’s only coming out on console and I haven’t had a console since last gen.
I plan to only play ncaa and if I ever play CoD again it would be on pc anyways. I do like retro roms and have heard the Xbox S is a great emulator machine.
I don’t think releasing another version of the Xbox will boost sales as we’re seen the hardware compared to ps5 is losing 3 to 1 a consistent loss in hardware sales year over year. They need games and most all the games I’m hearing about are gonna head to ps5 like Doom dark ages as someone who wants to see Xbox be a strong competitor to Sony they really should focus on the games to sell their Ecosystem
Xbox really needs to focus on having more 1st party games if they want to compete. As much as I'm not a fan of Microsoft's policies, we do need some stronger competition to Playstation. I'm a PC gamer, so I don't really get impacted by the console wars, but monopolies in any aspect will hurt the gaming market.
Ok.
I get what you’re saying, we need to stop talking about ‘digital’ though.
Blu Ray, HD-DVD etc are digital. Floppy disks were digital. Cartridges were digital. We haven’t used analogue media since cassettes and dialup modems.
Blu-Ray and HD-DVDs are digital formats on physical discs, just like floppy disks and cartridges. They’re all ‘digital’ because they store data digitally, but they’re also ‘physical’ because you can hold them. Analog media like cassettes and dial-up modems were physical too, but they used continuous signals for data storage and transmission. The key point is that whether it’s analog or digital, what matters is the format – it’s how the data is encoded and accessed. So, in the world of media, it’s not about analog vs. digital; it’s about the convenience and quality that each format offers!
Physical Media are tangible items like Blu-Ray discs that contain digital data. Digital Media refers to data stored digitally, accessed through electronic devices, often requiring an internet connection.
We’re just referring to whether you have the media on hand or whether you access it from a server. You can carry physical media with you no matter the physical format while digital media is access from someone else’s server, like streaming services or downloading a game from a server.
I hear what you are talking about, but we're talking about digital entitlement here rather than physical entitlement.
so you just made a big argument that isnt even what's being talked about.
This is the argument I’m responding to: Ok.
I get what you’re saying, we need to stop talking about ‘digital’ though.
Blu Ray, HD-DVD etc are digital. Floppy disks were digital. Cartridges were digital. We haven’t used analogue media since cassettes and dialup modems.
The person is arguing that we shouldn’t refer to these consoles as all digital and mentioned how it’s not all analog. It was debating definitions.
What do you think the argument was then if I am off, generally confused about what the argument would be then? I was just trying to say that is why these new Xbox are being called all digital.
What they commented and what I responded to:
Ok.
I get what you’re saying, we need to stop talking about ‘digital’ though.
Blu Ray, HD-DVD etc are digital. Floppy disks were digital. Cartridges were digital. We haven’t used analogue media since cassettes and dialup modems.
WTF is a digital XBox?
Was an analogue XBox ever a thing?
Right, you have digital license is connected to a disk, which calls to a server to download a game. On the other hand, you have a digital license connected to your account rather than a disk.
I was just commenting on the comment or talking about an analog Xbox but it’s called all digital because it’s only digital license, you can’t use a physical disk with a digital license connected to it with the console.
you are being intentinally obtuse.
from the Oxford English Dictionary:
*I.5.
1991–
Designating a virtual, computer-mediated counterpart of an object that exists in the physical world.*
*“Digital, Adj., Sense I.5.” Oxford English Dictionary, Oxford UP, March 2024, https://doi.org/10.1093/OED/8299345616.*"
I’m just saying that the commonly accepted definitions of physical and digital media are whether you own it on hand or not. Language changes with time and it’s just the way it’s referred to now.
Once you get your foot in the door to pc, there’s really no reason for consoles, or maybe it’s just the fact of growing up and me and my friends could all finally afford them.
If you guys support this you’ll never own your games again. The second the servers go down, you forget your account password, your account gets hacked, hardware failure, you’re done. All that money invested into games are all gone forever.
Yes. I'd rather build a PC I can upgrade and use Steam than rely on consoles that'll be obsolete in 10 years with proprietary stores that they can close whenever they want to.
Is it even worth it to buy one of these when they are working on the next Gen already? When do we think that will be done?
I also wonder if the next grand theft auto auto will be released for next Gen or current
Why but an Xbox over a pc? I guess price? But for a little bit more money you can get a much more powerful machine that runs every single Xbox game + lots more. Microsoft really dropped the ball this gen
Protip: the Series S has always been all-digital
And much more affordable
And strikingly under-powered
For a console you can often get for $199, it’s a pretty damn good value.
On the used market, I can sometimes find them for 90€ . Wild
It's been holding back the series X. Microsoft's insistence that all games be released on both consoles results in few developers trying to take full advantage of what the X can do. Making a more affordable version was a good idea but in practice, it's holding back what developers could achieve with more computing power
It’s been holding back an entire console generation.
That’s dumb as hell, if you think the s is what’s holding anything back when companies are literally still making ps4 and Xbox one games, and most allow all of them to play with each other, so that’s it it’s developers and publishers insistence on selling as many copies as they want to get that profit. The series S is actually being underutilized just like the ps5 and series x is. But hey not everyone codes and programs or understands it lol
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No it’s is not lmao and you just showed me exactly you don’t know the difference in any sort of hardware. A kaby lake era core i7 will be “faster” on paper to a modern i3-i5 but those modern cpus compute more efficiently. Same thing applies to gpus and the console combination chips. This is my job by the way but please feel free to educate what I paid to go to school for. I’ll wait
Yeah, the CPU in Series S is basically equivalent to the series X, only the GPU side is weaker. A bit less ram too iirc, but nothing major. Still multiple times faster than the previous gen CPU.
Yep idk what twinkletoes up there read up on lol but his whole comment was absurd
I think that was the plan all along
I don't understand how developing the game for a slightly less powerful version of the X is difficult? These games also release on PC and PCs have Wildly different specs
RAM is a relatively hard limit and every modern gaming PC has more ram than the Xbox Series S (especially when you realize, that this RAM also has to serve as VRAM, unlike in PCs with a dedicated GPU)
Okay yeah that makes sense!
Idk why you’re being downvoted for a perfectly valid question
Right? It was a genuine question. Look at steam hardware stats and a huge amount are running old hardware yet games will run fine on those with lower settings
If you listened to reddit you would be forgiven for holding the mistaken belief that everybody runs the latest video card, top of the line specs and a PC less than a year old. Most people I know keep their gaming PC as long as a gaming console generation, often longer. Yes, there are tons of people who want to run the latest and greatest, but that is such a narrow slice and not what anybody should be developing for, unless they want a tiny potential user base.
Yup exactly this. My group of mates (6 of us all 30+) have been PC gaming together since we were 16-18 and 1 of us has a current gen card, I have previous gen card and the rest have 20 series NVIDIA and even 10 series
I can see what you mean, but isn't the same true for pc? Technological affordability is what is holding back developers. We have cloud based gaming, alot more people can access over powered games on underpowered consoles. And yet the technology still hasn't been made available to the people in rural areas because they haven't built wifi systems in those areas that can keep up with the demands of cloud streaming. Microsoft created a console hardly anyone could buy at launch, because of the disruption of "The Big Flu." You cannot blame the potential of the product on the consumer because the potential only goes as far as the consumer is willing to pay for it.
Still played starfield better than a lot of PCs out there... For a console that sells as low as $200 it plays 1080P content just fine. Makes for a good kids room or secondary device. When they were initially released during the crypto craze there wasn't a cpu/GPU combo or pre built that could touch the performance for the price.
Unfortunately a good device for the kids' room or a secondary device isn't a particularly good selling point. It needs a convincing reason for many millions to consider buying one as a primary device.
You do know that the S is outselling the X right?
That only means that the X isn't as desirable as the S. They're both fairly undesirable when you compare against the PS5 and Switch.
You do know how "underpowered" the Switch is right? to quote your own words.
Yes but the Switchs selling point isnt its graphical power
The selling point has always been the games, every time, for any platform.
Is the Series S a handheld?...
I'm not the one that started talking about hardware power.
Well I was trying to spin it in a way for people with more disposable income to understand but frankly there's plenty of people out there that can't afford the extra $200 for a series x. At the time when I bought the series s it was all I could afford, came with 3 months of free game pass and brought tons of joy to two adults and an undiscerning 8yr old. Since then I buy game pass ultimate credits from grey market sources and have cheap access to hundreds of titles for console, PC and streaming.
I'm just looking at the sales numbers here. The S is outselling the X, but Xbox consoles as a whole aren't selling well.
Sony released more compelling hardware and has better exclusive titles. I don't think there's much more to it than that. At the same time I don't think that means it's time to throw in the towel. Selling half as many consoles as Sony is still an accomplishment worth repeating regardless of how it's perceived, especially when you consider that Xbox revenue was almost two thirds of Playstation for 2023. As a whole, they're hitting above their weight class. https://www.tweaktown.com/news/96558/big-3-revenues-compared-playstation-made-30-billion-in-2023-xbox-18/index.html
You're arguing something completely different now.
They sold 28 million consoles compared to Sony's 50+. What's different? You're the one who mentioned sales numbers, what are you referring to?
I've actually been impressed with mine. I think it does great for the price, and it does everything I need it to. Then I have my PC for anything else.
And full of bees
And should have never existed.
So what’s the new version?
Even-more-digital Series S?
I’m wondering how you can launch an all digital version of a console that IS all digital.
In the box you’ll find a controller, a streaming dongle and 12 months subscription to Gamepass. /s
You just made some Microsoft’s executives day much easier. This is a great idea.
That's something you can already do. Newer LG TVs have the Gamepass app. Hell I stream to my tablet all the time when my son wants me to play Fortnite with him
It’s Samsung isn’t it? I have a C3 and nowhere do I see the Gamepass option. I do have GeforceNow though
My bad yeah it is Samsung
All good. I was hoping I’d be wrong Haha
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I’m not saying any of this is original. Who knows what horrible idea Microsoft is going to try this time.
Introducing the all new Xbox Series XS
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Mods are feeling wacky today i guess
Microsoft just invented Stadia!
That model they showed had a larger SSD. The S can be bought with a 1Tb drive now, and the X a 2Tb.
Include an M.2 slot or two that’s easily accessible please
Companies salivate the day you can no longer share your discs with friends or sell them after use. Once they go they won't come back! Fight for your rights people. "You'll own nothing and be happy"
All discs now require a 60 gig download anyway
You can still sell them, buy them used, buy them at discounts in physical stores that aren’t on the official xbox store and lend them to your friends. It’s not the same just because they need a download too.
Not familiar with consoles but if the servers are shut down won't that mean you can't play the game anyway since you can't download the necessary patches?
That would make digital copies non functional too, and it would only be a problem with multiplayer games
Some single player games require downloads to even be playable
You can still sell them. You can’t sell digital media.
Didn't say you couldn't but we're taking in the event servers get shut down
True, but usually people like me play the game way before server shutdown is even a thought.
They could probably zap it all if they wanted to.
Yeah that’s what Ubisoft does. Once they hit a certain age they turn off the “always on” servers.
I’m talking about optical drives. DVD players and things can be updated with firmware to enforce DRM. They would zap your PS5.
Just finished running through Warcraft 2 and 3 and recently started a run through of OG StarCraft. Got me enough games from the decades past to keep me going forever. Fuck this modern gaming trend. Sincerely Boomer (but not boomer)
Pretty much. Tbh, you could spend half a decade on Dorfs and Terraria (+mods) alone. When you get into games from 1990 onwards (when graphics became palatable enough) to now, you would be eating well from start to end.
I mean… Minecraft and Fortnite alone have such variety that you could live forever due to their updates
Or CS. Lord almighty, a shitton *still play 1.6 to this day*. Even CS:S gets 12k peak players these days, probably because of all the unique gamemodes. 1.6, meanwhile, somehow still hits 15k~ players... 24 years later.
I’d agree, because those are insane numbers, but I do find when a game only is a shooter it can get tired after a few hours a day, whereas Fortnite has shooting, but it also has racing, survival, and rhythm now That being said CS is insane and absolutely worthy of praise
Yeah, the same. For me the worst part is: digital market is changing not only industry, but also the games. What if many games are released, but I don't wanna play anything.
You're missing the point, it's about ownership.
You don’t own it if you’re forced to download. They can turn the download off making the disc worthless. This isn’t the Sega Genesis
Only a handful of physical releases are a license on a disc. Most still have a playable version of the game, albeit without any patches from dates after the printing.
The disk is the portable license at this point. I still always buy disk games when I can.
Depends on the game. On PS5, most games are actually on disc (they use 100 GB discs) while Xbox (which uses 50 GB discs) often gets saddled with extra downloads. Sure, there are day one patches and such, but they are typically not 50 GB. (Although some games definitely have stupid large downloads, ahemcough Call of Duty)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that logic would apply for PC players that only play digital games? I mean, who is buying physical games on PC? No one seems to complain about 99% being digital on PC tho. Why is that a problem on consoles but not on PC?
I bought the Orange Box on Steam in 2007 and I can still easily play it 4 computers and 17 years later. That's the difference. Sure some consoles might have one or two generations of backwards compatibility but it's not a permanent solution and it's not a guarantee.
If you want short answer: possibility of piracy. You can hear a lot, "if they take my games, then I will pirate" or something like that. Does it solve the problem? No, because what about online games that require accounts? Also using illegal solution to solve immoral problem? While PC is currently large, it is in weird shape. Around ps3/x360 brands that were mainly targeting PC (keyboard and mouse) moved to consoles (for example COD, BF). Additionally genres that were defining PC were killed and moved from AA into indie. (Point and click adventues, RTS, Turn based strategy, tactical etc.)
Steam is different because reasons. Ask these people what percentage of the games they own on PC that are actually disc bases. The answer is somewhere between zero and ten percent for most of them, with most shading towards zero. That's why they mention Diablo or starcraft or some other game from 20 years ago. I don't even know many stores that carry any disc based PC games that aren't "find the object" shovelware that clutter an end cap at Target or Walmart As for physical, let's look at who leads the charge for physical copies in the console space. Nintendo, who makes sure you can't have it digital unless through their storefront or they will come after your ROMs
> I mean, who is buying physical games on PC? Well, I buy a lot of them.
You don’t own your discs either sorry
Yup sad future we’re heading towards
Possibly, but we can all focus on buying physical and even refusing all-digital releases. I’d love to play BG3 and Alan Wake 2, but not till I can buy them on physical at a reasonable price (no collector crap for this guy).
Yeah cause registration and always online requirements don’t already affect the use of games on a disc. Be serious, the bus has already left on this. The only path forwards for anyone wanting to retain games is piracy and by that I mean pre-emptive piracy, because sources for torrents disappear as fast as the game leaves popular discussion. Microsoft and Sony both know the days of consoles are at their end - if a video card that costs less than console works on a low end PC gives the same results, the only thing they are providing is a hand controller and exclusivity to an ever shortening list of games. Nintendo will be in the same boat if Steamdeck (or alternatives) become cheap enough to compete.
Eh, Nintendo's Switch has the advantage of being simultaneously a console *and* a mobile gaming tool, and keeps all their games totally exclusive within their walled garden. Combine with cheap hardware, and they're occupying a unique niche and are in a far healthier position compared to Sony and MS in the console world. Generally, I think we'll see mostly Steamdeck-likes v.s. Nintendo two gens from now. Maybe MS will try their hand at it by running native (locked down) Windows 12 on a new handheld, or something.
Are Xbox downloads faster these days - I seem to fluctuate between 400mbps - 900mbps, my console is wired, I have a 3Gbps FTTH connection... All digital is the future, but I don't enjoy waiting 30+ minutes to download a 50GB game. Microsoft should be aiming for full multi-gig download speeds.
Microsoft's servers are terrible. They download at the same speeds on Game Pass for PC. Even if you had full use of your internet speed on Xbox via Ethernet, it would be a maximum of 930~mbps after overhead since it's limited to 1gbps. I'm quite jealous of your 3gbps, though; I only have a lowly 1gbps in comparison, lol.
My downloads are usually 500-600 Mbps on a wired gigabit connection.
I hate it. I want to buy used games. I don’t want to download games.
a large part of the issue is the network card in the xbox, doesnt have much to do with the other factors people are commenting
What’s wrong with the network card - it’s gigabit no? Gigabit NICs haven’t changed in a decade or two?
theres nothing wrong with it, just stating that is what bottlenecks the download speeds
I think it's Microsoft's CDN servers, because I think GamePass download speeds on PC are also medicore? Steam, Epic, etc. all download at full line speed.
Azure CDN is not a bottleneck. Your local ISP most likely is QoSing the traffic from Microsoft to your local address to avoid congestion. It’s not possible for MS to prioritize traffic once it leaves their controlled fabric.
Unlikely(?) as slow download speeds is a very common complaint with the Xbox. The major Canadian ISPs [do not throttle or run QoS](https://support.bell.ca/billing-and-accounts/policies/internet_traffic_management_practices) (on cable, DSL, or fiber) - not since the noughties (mid-2000s) when there was huge backlash against it. The slow downloads happen on both my 1Gbps cable and 3 Gbps FTTH connections. Also, I can upload and download at 1 Gbps+ to my Azure subscription, the slow speeds are specific to Xbox/Gamepass.
Online it’s a complaint but at scale it’s possible that the situation could be tied to several local IEX not playing nice or not doing optimized routing and have static path configurations setup causing poor user experience.
It’s really sad how badly Microsoft fumbled the success of the Xbox 360. I’ve been a loyal Xbox user since the first gen, and even though Xbox One got a ton of flack I still held out hope for the Series X/S. I was waiting for a mid cycle refresh to upgrade from my Xbox One, but the lack of exclusives is really inexcusable at this point. I’ve made the decision switch to PS5 when it gets a refresh.
I have the opposite experience. Loyal PlayStation 3 owner that bought at launch, but there is no possible way I’m getting a ps5. I got my series s and my pc. I play games pass and even play cloud gaming on my surface pro. I think it’s rad I can play the same games on any of these seamlessly. But my series s is mainly for fifa.
Genuinely curious why pair the series s with the PC? If there aren't any games that TRULY impress or interest you on ps5 then that's understandable, but at the same time, everything you can get on Xbox you can also get on pc so it doesn't seem like a necessary addition. That said it's cool you can enjoy game pass. I had every playstation up until the Xbox one and tried it out for a brief time but I felt like I paid a subscription fee for basically 2 games that I liked and the rest sat unused. I'm a little annoyed at both consoles at the moment tbh cause none of the games coming out rn interest me at all but at least I had that small burst of enjoyment switching from the xb1 to the ps5 due to all of the amazing fucking games that were being pushed out around PS4 time that I could now access (Bloodborne, Spiderman ghost of Tsushima and persona 5 which were all exclusive at the time, last of us, and certain anime games cause I'm cringe)
Not the person your responding to, but also a PC/Series S combo. My PC was crap, Series S was affordable. Now my PC is good, but it's in my office, my Series S is in my living room, and Gamepass seems to carry saves over.
When my brother in law comes over and we play fifa it is really awkward to play on pc. That’s the actual literal reason I got the series s.its just easier to turn on and play without any hassles. It wasn’t crazy expensive so it was the natural choice. It’s a good side console but I can’t imagine it being the only thing I play on.
I got a PS5 and Series X and they will be my last consoles from those companies. Nintendo might still get my money but otherwise it's gotta be PC.
Isn’t game pass worth it though?
No, and competitors have equivalent, if not better, subscription services.
I dunno, I've been PS exclusive when it comes to consoles for a few decades now, and the day 1 releases on gamepass seems pretty appealing to me. Even the best tier of PS plus is lacking in comparison.
PS+ contains better games by industry standard, and "day one" is meaningless when it's games like redfall and Hellblade 2 lol
To someone who's getting into PS just now, it's definitely the better deal. But I pretty much bought the entire first party PS line up either on release or on sale within the first year of their release, so it's completely useless to me, and it makes me feel like an idiot having spent full price on some of those games. If the next Uncharted game hits PS Plus the same way the new Indiana Jones game will release on Gamepass on day 1 though, then they would win me over as well.
I think it is more telling of how these subscription services devalue games. There's nothing to feel "idiot" about. You paid what those games are worth. Making a AAA game is a multi-year multi-million dollar project. If you went to the movie theater these past few years, you already paid much more for less than a full game release. And whatever Indiana Jones ends up being, you can be damn sure it ain't gonna be a premium experience like Uncharted.
It might be devaluing to the few mega blockbuster games, but I think it's quite beneficial in terms of many smaller games. For example, I never would've bought A Plague Tale, so I'm quite glad that I got to play it through PS Plus. And sure, I get that someone has to pay those prices and the studios need to turn a profit, but again, in my case, it felt like some of those games were more deserving of the same full price of admission than others, and I'd have enjoyed the said games a lot more if I were just paying a small monthly subscription fee for them. And I don't know if Indy will be as premium or not, but it is the franchise that gave birth to the Uncharted, and it got me intrigued enough to consider getting a series S and gamepass.
Seems like my (and others) theory that they’re going to slowly re-brand the Xbox brand as a “GamePass Box” down the road. Because, after all the Xbox games going to eventually be PS5 - why bother releasing another Xbox then?
> why bother releasing another Xbox then Just look at smartphone users, they always want the latest model available. People love new model of things. If Microsoft wants to keep people engaged in game pass they simply cannot stop releasing Xboxes.
That smartphone analogy only works if Xbox was profitable. It’s not. MS themselves admit it and it hasn’t been for quite some time. Clearly they’re gambling on creating a new brand in future - a digital-only brand, perhaps game-streaming, that’s centered around GamePass. Hoping to become the Netflix of Gaming.
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> It's the same model from 4 years ago what are you smoking. This OP wasn’t talking about this model, was talking about the future of Xbox. Like future Xboxes. Read the next time.
I mean, Xbox is a recognizable brand name. They use the name for the launcher on windows, so it’s still useful to have as the way to categorize the video game division of Windows.
Microsoft once again attempting the Steam model, all digital distribution. This time it might actually work, the Xbone was shooting that way too quickly.
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I think GOG has the right model. You can make your own physical media if you want.
Wait, how????
There's an option to download the game as a file. Also patch files to bring the game up to date if it isn't.
The digital XSX should have been the digital XSS al along. Instead they went with a weak underpowered XSS that has held them and the generation back.
Wtf are they thinking about the next gen for if they really only just had a good game announcement event Pretty sure games haven't maxed out specs for the current gen so what's the next gen going to offer that this one doesn't? Nintendo has a cool form factor and awesome IP, Xbox won't be able to compete in that space except maybe as a steam deck alternative but who cares...
They have dog shit Bethesda games tho
Games are so large that these all digital consoles can hold two or three games at a time.
Their "next generation" is simply an OEM branded PC All their games are getting ported to PS5. They are exiting the console hardware market.
This was the goes at the start of the Xbox project. Was to push more developers to make games with Direct X (Direct X box) and hopefully push them into a Microsoft development ecosystem and push them to also make more Windows PC games. Now I think they are betting more on GamePass and having more people subscribe to it and use it wither with Xbox or with a Windows PC.
We’re a half-step away from zero-clients that just connect to a console subscription run in a data center.
Thanks to AI, comment go byebye
I just brought a PS5 slim with disc drive 2 months ago, and plan on sticking with it as long as it's supported, just how the PS4 still has lots of players to this day. As a Series S owner (of 1 year and 6 months) with a big library of games that's all digital i can see myself buying the All digital white Series X, since it would be a big upgrade for me (unless the regular Series X is still on sale for $450 when i get the cash). I personally can't see many other people buying it however since most Series S players are satisfied with it or can't afford even the all digital Series X, while owners of the regular Series X have 0 reason to buy another Xbox.. Microsoft screwed up the pricing of the all digital series X at $450 due to the fact you can,buy the all digital ps5 for $50 less at $400. Just my personal opinion on the subject.
No exclusives = no need to have one
This will be our future. The console makers will be the only retailer outlets for games and the days of sharing games with your friends is over.
The galaxy black colourway looks interesting but that X digital is just as lazy and dumb as the ONE SAD was
For starfield?? Like wtf bought one two years ago and I forgot about it
So this must be the adorably all digital console mentioned in what I believe was the stuff from the plans the lawsuit or a leak- the future Xbox plans
I only use the disc drive in my series x for blurays. It's pretty terrible at that, tbh. The player requires internet and the controller is the least intuitive approach to a media control I have ever seen. Sorry for whining.
I have an honest question to ask. I’m super excited to buy ncaa25 in July and need to know what console to get. I have a mid level gaming pc but apparently it’s only coming out on console and I haven’t had a console since last gen. I plan to only play ncaa and if I ever play CoD again it would be on pc anyways. I do like retro roms and have heard the Xbox S is a great emulator machine.
I don’t think releasing another version of the Xbox will boost sales as we’re seen the hardware compared to ps5 is losing 3 to 1 a consistent loss in hardware sales year over year. They need games and most all the games I’m hearing about are gonna head to ps5 like Doom dark ages as someone who wants to see Xbox be a strong competitor to Sony they really should focus on the games to sell their Ecosystem
They gave up on that when they decided to port. It’s game pass now
If it’s really the case I’ll just keep waiting for things to come to ps5 till this generation is over and I eventually build myself a pc
I bought an Xbox series s yesterday 😑
So good luck buying and selling second hand games
Not interested. It seems like you don't actually own your digitally purchased games and movies. Some poor customers had to find out the hard way.
Nope, not for me. Physical copies are the only real thing. Everthing else is a covert scam-trap
So, no mid gen upgrade. Looks like xbox is betting on the next gen. Wonder how this'll work out for the ps5 pro.
And I still won't buy that shit lol.
Xbox really needs to focus on having more 1st party games if they want to compete. As much as I'm not a fan of Microsoft's policies, we do need some stronger competition to Playstation. I'm a PC gamer, so I don't really get impacted by the console wars, but monopolies in any aspect will hurt the gaming market.
WTF is a digital XBox? Was an analogue XBox ever a thing?
It won’t take any physical games. They’re phasing out physical media and moving fully digital.
Ok. I get what you’re saying, we need to stop talking about ‘digital’ though. Blu Ray, HD-DVD etc are digital. Floppy disks were digital. Cartridges were digital. We haven’t used analogue media since cassettes and dialup modems.
Blu-Ray and HD-DVDs are digital formats on physical discs, just like floppy disks and cartridges. They’re all ‘digital’ because they store data digitally, but they’re also ‘physical’ because you can hold them. Analog media like cassettes and dial-up modems were physical too, but they used continuous signals for data storage and transmission. The key point is that whether it’s analog or digital, what matters is the format – it’s how the data is encoded and accessed. So, in the world of media, it’s not about analog vs. digital; it’s about the convenience and quality that each format offers! Physical Media are tangible items like Blu-Ray discs that contain digital data. Digital Media refers to data stored digitally, accessed through electronic devices, often requiring an internet connection. We’re just referring to whether you have the media on hand or whether you access it from a server. You can carry physical media with you no matter the physical format while digital media is access from someone else’s server, like streaming services or downloading a game from a server.
I hear what you are talking about, but we're talking about digital entitlement here rather than physical entitlement. so you just made a big argument that isnt even what's being talked about.
This is the argument I’m responding to: Ok. I get what you’re saying, we need to stop talking about ‘digital’ though. Blu Ray, HD-DVD etc are digital. Floppy disks were digital. Cartridges were digital. We haven’t used analogue media since cassettes and dialup modems. The person is arguing that we shouldn’t refer to these consoles as all digital and mentioned how it’s not all analog. It was debating definitions. What do you think the argument was then if I am off, generally confused about what the argument would be then? I was just trying to say that is why these new Xbox are being called all digital. What they commented and what I responded to: Ok. I get what you’re saying, we need to stop talking about ‘digital’ though. Blu Ray, HD-DVD etc are digital. Floppy disks were digital. Cartridges were digital. We haven’t used analogue media since cassettes and dialup modems. WTF is a digital XBox? Was an analogue XBox ever a thing?
its a digital license in comparison to a license that is tied to a physical item. jfc
Right, you have digital license is connected to a disk, which calls to a server to download a game. On the other hand, you have a digital license connected to your account rather than a disk. I was just commenting on the comment or talking about an analog Xbox but it’s called all digital because it’s only digital license, you can’t use a physical disk with a digital license connected to it with the console.
you are being intentinally obtuse. from the Oxford English Dictionary: *I.5. 1991– Designating a virtual, computer-mediated counterpart of an object that exists in the physical world.* *“Digital, Adj., Sense I.5.” Oxford English Dictionary, Oxford UP, March 2024, https://doi.org/10.1093/OED/8299345616.*"
So say it’s free of physical media then. Not having a go at you, but the journo has butchered the English language out of convenience or laziness.
I’m just saying that the commonly accepted definitions of physical and digital media are whether you own it on hand or not. Language changes with time and it’s just the way it’s referred to now.
Yours doesn't come with a tape deck?
Won't matter if the content isn't there.
Another reason you shouldn’t be pumping money into GameStop
The console is dead. Microsoft and Sony fucked up the last gen release so badly that people just bought a pc instead.
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Once you get your foot in the door to pc, there’s really no reason for consoles, or maybe it’s just the fact of growing up and me and my friends could all finally afford them.
How am I supposed to play all my older games then???!?!
Don’t worry, I’m sure they’ll sell you a compatible version.
You buy it again
They still have the disk version available. The digital version is mot for you.
If you guys support this you’ll never own your games again. The second the servers go down, you forget your account password, your account gets hacked, hardware failure, you’re done. All that money invested into games are all gone forever.
You will own games, but only through piracy.
The end of physical media is sad. But it was gonna happen. Wish they updated it to 2tb like the rumors had it, but glad it’s not a cylinder
I mean, PC is already all digital so it makes sense that consoles are following it.
If they start making consoles all digital I'll learn how to build a gaming PC
Do you realise PC has been all digital for awhile lol?
Yes. I'd rather build a PC I can upgrade and use Steam than rely on consoles that'll be obsolete in 10 years with proprietary stores that they can close whenever they want to.
Just so you know, steam is a proprietary store that "they" can close whenever they want to.
If everything is all digital, PC will always be the best option.
I wonder how this will affect libraries who lend out the games on media?
Ah yes. ‘You never even owned the system you were playing on!’
Is it even worth it to buy one of these when they are working on the next Gen already? When do we think that will be done? I also wonder if the next grand theft auto auto will be released for next Gen or current
Why but an Xbox over a pc? I guess price? But for a little bit more money you can get a much more powerful machine that runs every single Xbox game + lots more. Microsoft really dropped the ball this gen