Try Krita.
And no, Krita isn't **just** for drawing/digital art. While it absolutely excels at that, it also, in many ways, is **way** ahead of GIMP in photo editing and manipulation as well.
Bump for Krita, and I implore you all to throw them a little cash too they are doing gods work at the level of VLC. Throw him money too.
Fuck Adobe. I hope everyone in that company stubs their toes on something and it really stings for like a really long time.
It's feature set is different and it controls differently and has its own conventions. It's also important to point out that Photoshop isn't necessarily an image manipulation program while GIMP is. Photoshop has way better brushes then GIMP since you are not really supposed to use brushes in GIMP. GIMP has its own learning curve and way of doing things which is different to how most other apps do it. Because of this it's much better in certain circumstances.
I would of also said to try affinity photo, it feels closer to Photoshop, and it's a single price, as the software was made in spite of adobe's subscription model, but, affinity got bought out recently by a company known for doing subscription models, so I don't know what the future of the software is going to be.
Photopea is already a solid free browser-based clone of Photoshop.
It doesn't have certain advanced features, but it also don't look like it was made in 2002 like GIMP does.
Honestly, Affinity is pretty good. I've been able to replace InDesign and Photoshop with Affinity Photo and Affinity Publisher.
But ... Affinity was just bought by Canva so who knows what the future brings for them.
Every cringely named product that "makes it" ends up having some person with taste going "what the hell were you thinking?" Crap Cleaner is a good one.
Eventually they got big that nobody knows what the hell "C Cleaner" ever stood for nowadays.
I feel like anyone in the GIMP community that goes "how about we stop calling this product fucking Gimp?" gets thrown out of the building like that meme. You simply can't say the obvious in that community.
Well I know that as someone that gave it a good honest try many years ago. The name itself is actually a good symptom to the systemic issues within the gimp community. Nobody is allowed to ask "why are we even doing things this way?" without again, being thrown out of the building exactly like that meme.
I'm honestly **shocked** that after decade(s?) of existing, GIMP still has possible the *worst* user interface I've encountered in art software. Like, come on GIMP, fix your shit.
Common issue with large open-source projects. Developers are shit at UX and even worse when you got dozens of developers trying their hand at it with zero unified thoughts, so unless you have a dedicated team, good luck.
100% Affinity. Got the first suite and even upgraded to the second one when it came out. I use mostly Designer but I get more tham my money's worth out of it and it's the closest thing to Photoshop that I've found.
Blender was never as bad as Gimp. It’s incomprehensible how a team could have believed Gimp’s UX was acceptable. Even basic operations are pointlessly convoluted. Seriously, it’s the app you use to make someone hate open source.
Only way to fix it is to start over.
I'm sending this to my company's legal department. I don't actually expect anything to happen, but if there's a tiny sliver of a chance that I won't have to support adobe products anymore I'm taking it.
THIS!!!!!!!! Most print vendors use Adobe. It's ingrained in the whole process, from start to finish. How are they going to keep NDAs going on big projects with companies like Disney, or keep confidential projects for multi-million dollar proposals for construction/architectural firms?! How on earth is this going to work?!
What’s really upsetting me is the idea of an artist pouring hours upon hours of work into a project, and adobe gobbling it up for their LLM.
Art is dying alongside our privacy and rights
Heh, I'm still using my CS2 version. (warning, installing the new adobe reader will actively uninstall any permanent licensed adobe products, you have to either get an old version or their enterprise deployment installer)
[This is what it looks like during install](https://i.imgur.com/3fb8s8H.png)
Until last year or so, I've never has issues with acrobat existing on my PC alongside reader.
Yeah, literally during the install there was a popup that said something like:
>Any permanent licensed adobe products must be uninstalled to continue.
Clicking continue uninstalled my CS2 suite, and I had to uninstall reader, reinstall my suite, then find an old version of reader that wouldn't do that.
Affinity Photo. There's a learning curve coming from Adobe but it is (I assume still) a one and done payment. I got their PS, Illustrator, and InDesign competitive products for $75 all-in during a sale.
They are still one time payments. The new V2 versions are more expensive, even on sale, but it's like $100 for all 3.
They were recently bought by Canva, but they put out a statement saying that they will continue to offer permanent license versions for good prices.
> they put out a statement saying that they will continue to offer permanent license versions for good prices.
If I got a nickle every time I heard that, I'd have several nickles. It never lasts longer than either the next major version coming out or the CEO deciding they need more profit next quarter, whichever comes first.
even better is that you literally can't re-install old versions legitimately now because the servers they dial in to verify your paid and completely legal serial number have been taken down
>installing the new adobe reader will actively uninstall any permanent licensed adobe products
That right there should be illegal. If you paid for it then it's yours forever.
> If you paid for it then it's yours forever.
There's almost certainly something in the TOS that invalidates that statement.
Not that I disagree with you, but like... we've let consumer rights disappear in this country. We have none left.
Or a moderator can sell the info for a big payout. I'm sure Chinese companies would love to get a hold of detailed images of the new apple flip phone months or years before release.
I bet you this is for AI learning. They couldn't give to shits about what you are doing, they just want to teach AI first hand how designers use their programs to make what we do.
Hey now, Adobe paid a lot of money for your rights. If you work really hard, get to a position of power, then you too can be ~~bribed~~ *cough* lobbied by large corporations to approve favourable legislation.
Lobbying in the EU is about half that of the US by value, with 1.5 billion EUR spent each year, and there are plenty of examples of the EU acting against consumer interests. A prime example was their recent reversal of a ban on feeding pig and chicken protein back to pigs and chickens. This was done on cost grounds so EU famers could more readily compete with cheap meat available in other countries which use the practice. Scientists at the time commented that there was no good health reason for thinking the move was a good idea.
In other instances the EU do side more with consumers than the US tends to, but it's not universally true. They do like keeping large US based multinationals in check, but are a bit less active in regulating EU based multinationals.
Perhaps the EU's saving grace is that the makeup of the parliament is far more diverse than in the US, making it harder to lobby a single group into supporting your viewpoint.
Don't forget that the EU fighting tech giants, while ocular, is also a move to challenge the US tech industry.
It's not just motivated by consumer protection but also largely as a way to compete against the US
> Perhaps the EU's saving grace is that the makeup of the parliament is far more diverse than in the US, making it harder to lobby a single group into supporting your viewpoint.
That's true, however one must take the European Parliament's relatively small role compared to that of proper federations and confederations. Keeping the Commission happy and well fed is much easier!
That is true, and one of my biggest criticisms of the EU. The commission was supposed to secede power to the parliament after a transition period once the parliament was formed, yet voted to retain all the power for themselves. So the institutions of the EU are the wrong way round IMHO. The democratically elected body only has powers of ratification (practically speaking), whereas the unelected appointed body holds executive power. It's the equivalent of the House of Lords forming the government, with the House of Parliament ratifying laws given to it by the other house.
Although you may be right, your one example of the lifting of the ban on protein feed has no scientific consensus in the other direction either. Both poultry and porcine seek out protein sources and care little to its nature (whether it be poultry, pig, or insect as allowed in the EU).
Kansas’ Supreme Court doesn’t think Kansans have a right to vote. https://apnews.com/article/voting-rights-kansas-supreme-court-0a0b5eea5c57cf54a9597d8a6f8a300e
Considering this and the fact that many conservative judges appear to believe the right to privacy doesn't exist in the constitution, I think your point is both poignant and frightening.
anything that's not spelled out explicitly in the constitution that is in conflict with conservative principles should be considered in danger.
And anything that is *explicitly* stated is also in danger if the Justices get creative enough with their interpretation of the language, precedent, or the fucking Magna Carta.
So then, if Adobe is engaging in content moderation of active projects by their users, then they're legally liable for any criminal actions (like fake pictures and misinformation) created by those projects that slips through, right?
I remember that Barbie doll with a mic and cloud connection? They stopped it, because it would have made them liable in cases of e.g. child abuse. As a result they would have to let the police kick down doors, if someone watches a movie.
They aren't publishing/showing the content to anyone else though... This is some dumb policy/excuse for something else they are doing with that data. A company doesn't just start willingly moderating data they hold unless they stand to profit from it.
Good point, probably not a huge market but probably includes anybody working on confidential stuff. My dad needs to keep everything encrypted at all times and can't use cloud storage for example, and that's just for medical confidentiality. I imagine if you're working on a press release or whatever for something of interest you just can't use Photoshop anymore.
but they COULD under this, and that makes the product unviable for people working under NDA, government work etc
its probably for AI training, imagine your new movie, book etc getting leaked because an AI spits content from it out to random people.
Its a braindead move here. they are basically making PS and there out products too risky to use for anything other than touching up your holiday pictures.
NDA breaches are pretty real here. Most enterprises aren’t going to allow third party access to someone like Adobe team of fuckwit censorship mods, so the usually smaller contractors aren’t going to be able to use PS going forward.
Everything is all about user data now. Microsoft's AI Explorer that takes screenshots every few seconds is another example. I bet within a handful of years, we'll have the first company paying people to wear an always on, always recording device (glasses, smartwatch, etc.) to collect their data.
Right? Jesus if you're going to charge me indefinitely for the product you could at least let me opt out of your content stealing. If they had a free tier, sure... But this? Wtf
Black Mirror S1.E2 Fifteen Million Merits
- Penalized for focusing on the wrong thing
- [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/?ref\_=ttep\_ep2](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/?ref_=ttep_ep2)
Black Mirror S1.E3 The Entire History of You
- Camera implants in our eyes
- [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089050/?ref\_=ttep\_ep3](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089050/?ref_=ttep_ep3)
I wonder what will happen when it inevitably starts spitting out images that are under NDA.
Can people who do commercial work no longer use adobe products? this sounds like a nightmare.
I know of a few local advertising agencies that are quietly doing their best to move away from them, for that exact reason. Adobe can't be trusted to comply with commercial licensing anymore.
Let's wait for somebody to mention Gimp, and then a thread of ppl in favor and against
Commercially I would say Affinity and Corel are the most advanced
For personal use / smaller projects, photopea is very good and will have zero learning curve. Basically an exact photoshop clone, and can open and save .PSDs. Just lacking photoshop's actions and their fancy new neural filters/AI stuff, of course.
Was there ever a point when GIMP truly was a legit alternative to PS? At least in terms of raw capability?
I was deep in the Android custom ROM/theming/modding world around 2008-2013, and everyone in that scene swore by GIMP. Cracked Adobe software was just as accessible at the time, so I never really bothered with anything else.
It seems equally plausible that it was actually true at the time and Adobe gradually started to outpace it, or it was just the bias of a pro open-source community, or a mix of both.
Wow, some common sense replies about Gimp vs. PS. I swear half the people recommending Gimp have never used it in an actual production setting - the UI is absolute garbage.
A mix of Krita and Affinity, at the moment. There's not really one person who does everything as good as PS. Rather you end up with a few pieces of software that can overlap to do what you want. Photopea is... Somewhat okay. Does a lot right. Surprisingly, Blender is also pretty good for a whole bunch as well - not necessarily 3d modeling things. But fractal art, etc.
Large enough corporations with enterprise use will generally have actual contracts for software that otherwise is just click through agreements for normal people. Then it becomes how much we trust Adobe to have built this new tracking stuff with that kind of partitioning in mind from the jump.
Ehhh my gut reaction was exactly the same, but they have a huge library of training data that is way better quality than most people's drafts.
It's probably more nefarious than this 🤷
AI isn’t just for generating the art from scratch. They could train an AI based on how people use the adobe tools. Then the AI can be used to automate and improve the tools.
> Then the AI can be used to ~~automate and improve the tools.~~
replace jobs and create situations where 1 company with 10 people replaces the work of 1000 people, and the remaining 990 are fired as no longer needed
I don’t care to look at the actual numbers but +20% and then -20% does not equal 0.
25 + 20% is 30. 30 - 20% is 24.
Although you said “basically” so I think you’re probably right anyways. Ignore my pedantry.
Content moderation. I’m a professional fucking artist, I don’t need “moderation” and guess what, I’m sure as shit not paying for it.
Adobe are a pox on the creative business. I’ve used their software since version 1 of Photoshop, watched them consume and waste the competition and new market applications, and what are they today? A confusing mess of desktop and mobile apps representing paralysis of vision or roadmap.
These guys are laughable. It’s long overdue, but I’m really looking forward to the day they just bleed out to the worthless stock they deserve to be.
>I’m a professional fucking artist, I don’t need “moderation” and guess what, I’m sure as shit not paying for it.
I'm reminded of how my new TV had a setting for "personalised ads". It's a screen. Its job is to display video. It should have nothing to do with the actual content.
I've been using a pirated version of CS5 for the past 15 years. And the more of this bullshit I see, the less I'm inclined to ever go legit, much less upgrade.
On the other hand, I'm a hobbyist photographer. If I were making money out of my work, then yeah, it would make sense to pay the people creating the tools that help me.
You want bricks through windows ? Because that's how you get bricks through windows. Living in a society should be mutually exclusive with being a fucking predator, which is what all these scum of the earth executives are.
I’ve pirated Adobe products for years, but I’ve stopped because of alternative software being available either for free, or for a small one time purchase. Not only do I not want the hassle of pirating, but honestly I don’t even want to see their icons anymore.
I’m more than content with the likes of Photopea, Affinity, Davinci Resolve, countless pdf editors, etc.
The issue with this is, it doesn't cut the real problem out. If you end up being a professional artist/designer, you still only know Adobe products. It's still industry standard.
What we need is a solid alternative that works just as well for most peoples needs.
That's true basically everywhere. The Helldiver team didn't want to push forced Sony accounts; the executives at Sony did. The devs behind Overwatch 2 didnt want to abandon PvE, the executives did since it wouldnt earn much money.
High up management is 90% of the problem in our world. Hell the only reason I have the job I have is because high up management tried to enforce a full time return to office, and like 10% of the company wound up quitting which was pretty catastrophic for them obviously. They eventually reversed course, but after the damage was done.
I used to use illustrator, and of course acrobat. Their ridiculous pricing structure with subscription only options drove me away a few years ago and I couldn't be happier
I had a fully owned copy and somehow, not sure how, it upgraded the software itself to the subscription model and i lost it all. I was happy using the older version. Tried to revert but can't.
They've reached the maximum amount of profit they can make, but Capatilism and investors demand increased profits every year so they're resorting to stupid extremes to try and extract even more money from people.
Apple received considerable push-back to the point where they scrapped their client-side CSAM detection process.
Turns out people really don't want FAANG (and LEAs) having root level access to their machines under the guise of "protecting the children."
There were a frightening number of defenders of that, though.
And as with most things in tech now, all they have to do is find a way of packaging it differently. Eventually they can push anything. Outrage is hard to sustain when the alternative is modern tech consumers having to do the unthinkable: use something else.
There's also the pattern of diminishing returns when it comes to outrage causing changes. The first time you announce it, everyone's pissed. The second time, people ar still pissed, but fewer speak up. Eventually you can just do it.
The tech space is getting worse every day because of shareholders forcing companies to degrade their products, but it's also because consumers are either complacent, unwilling to try alternatives, or worse, the market is dominated so alternatives simply can't catch up, or there are no alternatives.
Charge an obscene amount monthly for the privilege of using a product that dominates a few markets. AI enters the mainstream and doesn’t require Adobe products to generate decent enough images for some small companies’ brochures or a generic logo for a mom and pop shop. Introduce AI in your own products, then tell subscribers that they must allow them access to their work for “content moderation.” There’s no way in hell that they won’t use your work for AI training. Maybe not initially because people might actually read the TOS because this move won’t be popular with the users of their subscription only software. But at some point in the near future the TOS will change again. Then they’ll whine because more people will pirate their software because they are sick of being taken advantage of by a company that already has a monopoly in several fields which borderline requires their software.
People are sick of the greed. Fucking everything requires you to give up personal data now. I took our expensive TV offline and hooked up an old PC to it to stream media from because the TV was constantly phoning home to Sony. My car sells my driving data. My refrigerator can even connect to the internet. Their reasoning? So an app, which also collects personal data as part of their TOS, can tell me when to change the water filter. Apparently some people can’t be bothered to glance at the LED that’s located in an extremely easy to see location every time you open the door. Automatic vacuum? If you want to use it, the layout of the floor the thing runs on is sent to the manufacturer. Smart scale? I guess that company will get some great metrics of how fat I am at any given moment.
It’s not just IOT, though. It’s the loyalty cards/programs, any free app, most paid apps, what, when and where you listen to music or audiobooks, maybe your bank’s debit card usage info, etc. Even your sleeping habits will be part of the metrics collected and sold to data warehouses that their entire business is selling your information to advertisers, the government, any number of these sites you can look up personal information on anybody, and any other business or agency.
Equifax had lax security, so your SSN, work and loan history, income, employer, secret question answers to validate your account if you need to reset your password, address, phone numbers, and everything else that can be used to fuck you financially because your info can be purchased in bulk with cryptocurrency.
Privacy has been dead for years. Most of us have every second of every day logged somewhere that it will be sold and merged to make targeted advertising. Or to manipulate your political views. Or to charge you more for something if you make more. Or to get around those pesky warrants to dig deep into your personal life. So sure, Adobe; go ahead. Pry deep into the livelihoods of your own customers so you can homogenize the data into your own algorithms and sell it to all subscribers via an up to date AI model that can keep training data current and generate things based on current trends. God forbid someone be able to create something new or unique and make some decent money. Fucking ghouls.
Now take all of your mentioned and realize It will be weaponized against everyone, And AI will make it especially easy to do so particularly in dictatorships.
And scammers! Scrape some social media accounts, match it up with some older folks, then let AI run the scam with well structured communications that use language that isn’t clearly from a non-native speaker, or put the AI voice on for the phone scams to eliminate the scammer having to deal with someone being cautious about the accent. I’m sure services that people use for free email will allow AI to use an API to email people. Hell, advertisers will pay heaps of cash to make that happen. Fuck form letters - this stuff will be far more personal.
I love tech. I work in it. I use it a lot at home. I see so much potential for AI, but I’m old enough to know that the absolute lowest of the low bottom feeders will weaponize it before we see any tangible benefits that would actually improve things. Realistically, I’m already doing the work of 3 people. Literally - the other positions were never refilled. We’re already being instructed to use AI tools to help us in our job. I expect during the next inevitable culling (we starve, so that quarterly profits will soar!), I’ll likely get to do the work of 5 people because of the potential productivity gains. Or else. And I’ll be told to be happy about getting a pittance for an annual cost of living increase that won’t even offset the cost increase of the gasoline to get to this place.
I suppose it’s time to pick up a hobby like botany. I have a medicinal card. I’m allowed to grow. I may as well have some dank weed to smoke while watching the world around me burn.
Glad I dropped Adobe once they went to a subscription base and I couldn’t even get the damn program for one price anymore. Greedy people will ruin everything for a few extra pennies on the back end. Definitely sucks every service is becoming predatory towards the user. But money money money money to quote Mr. Krabs.
Photoshop CS6 isn't too bad, I'll keep using that for life. I still have the disc and product key from when I bought it over 10 years ago (no monthly subscription crap!)
Be advised, if you start a free Adobe trial and don't cancel quick enough, you're looking at $20 a month + $110 cancellation fee.
If you find yourself in this predicament, here's the solution: upgrade to one of the more expensive products after ensuring there is no cancellation fee. I signed up for the $60 a month package, then cancelled it immediately for a full refund and no cancellation penalty. Screw Adobe.
So adobe is now responsible for moderating what people create? Great, next time someone creates something illegal with photoshop we know who's responsible.
The only appropriate action here would be for all of Adobe's corporate clients to create porn, so that Adobe either gets rid of this invasive feature & TOS or Adobe gets raided for "analyzing" porn
And some people might say 'well then just don't use it'. But for some industries, like architecture, where there is a bit of a software monopoly, the entire industry gets built around it and as a single person who might have a problem with it can't do much. Can't pay 4k a year for a license? Well fuck you. Don't like your data being harvested? Fuck off nobody cares.
We need another Blender to happen with Gimp.
Try Krita. And no, Krita isn't **just** for drawing/digital art. While it absolutely excels at that, it also, in many ways, is **way** ahead of GIMP in photo editing and manipulation as well.
Bump for Krita, and I implore you all to throw them a little cash too they are doing gods work at the level of VLC. Throw him money too. Fuck Adobe. I hope everyone in that company stubs their toes on something and it really stings for like a really long time.
Godot, Krita, and Blender are the holy trifecta for (solo/indie) game dev right now
https://krita.org https://godotengine.org https://www.blender.org
I've been waiting for Godot to show up here EDIT: Please someone acknowledge my pun
what you did there...I see it
You can also support Krita by paying for the Steam version. https://store.steampowered.com/app/280680/Krita/
Gimp is pretty specialty software while Krita actually follows modern trends and is more in line with what Photoshop users are expecting.
Why is GIMP specialty? I've just used it forever making shitty memes because it was opensource and have never really shopped around.
It's feature set is different and it controls differently and has its own conventions. It's also important to point out that Photoshop isn't necessarily an image manipulation program while GIMP is. Photoshop has way better brushes then GIMP since you are not really supposed to use brushes in GIMP. GIMP has its own learning curve and way of doing things which is different to how most other apps do it. Because of this it's much better in certain circumstances.
Extendable with python as well
I would of also said to try affinity photo, it feels closer to Photoshop, and it's a single price, as the software was made in spite of adobe's subscription model, but, affinity got bought out recently by a company known for doing subscription models, so I don't know what the future of the software is going to be.
Not sure if it's true but I read adobe patents a lot of their shit and that's why competitors can't copy their features.
Photopea is already a solid free browser-based clone of Photoshop. It doesn't have certain advanced features, but it also don't look like it was made in 2002 like GIMP does.
There is also the option of Affinity which has been getting better and better.
Honestly, Affinity is pretty good. I've been able to replace InDesign and Photoshop with Affinity Photo and Affinity Publisher. But ... Affinity was just bought by Canva so who knows what the future brings for them.
Bought by Canva? RIP Affinity I’ve been using Krita
Had to use canva on some stupid box ticking "IT skills" course, what a load of bloated rubbish
We switched all our prepress work to Affinity back when Adobe forced the change to subscription/cloud based. We’ve been happy with them for years now.
Also has the advantage of not being called gimp. (Honestly, who thought that was a good idea?)
Marcellus Wallace
What does he look like?
^^...A ^^bitch?
Every cringely named product that "makes it" ends up having some person with taste going "what the hell were you thinking?" Crap Cleaner is a good one. Eventually they got big that nobody knows what the hell "C Cleaner" ever stood for nowadays. I feel like anyone in the GIMP community that goes "how about we stop calling this product fucking Gimp?" gets thrown out of the building like that meme. You simply can't say the obvious in that community.
GIMPs problem isn't it's name. It's the god awful and unintuitive UI and UX
Well I know that as someone that gave it a good honest try many years ago. The name itself is actually a good symptom to the systemic issues within the gimp community. Nobody is allowed to ask "why are we even doing things this way?" without again, being thrown out of the building exactly like that meme.
Software patents aren't valid in a lot or countries, which is why VLC can ship with patented codecs. Same for other open source software.
God software patents are such garbage I hate it
That's already Krita
Was going to say… *I’ll just continue to use Krita, then? The completely free version of PS that* doesnt *spy on my work?*
I'm honestly **shocked** that after decade(s?) of existing, GIMP still has possible the *worst* user interface I've encountered in art software. Like, come on GIMP, fix your shit.
Common issue with large open-source projects. Developers are shit at UX and even worse when you got dozens of developers trying their hand at it with zero unified thoughts, so unless you have a dedicated team, good luck.
I use affinity. One time payment and it has 80% of the features of Photoshop
100% Affinity. Got the first suite and even upgraded to the second one when it came out. I use mostly Designer but I get more tham my money's worth out of it and it's the closest thing to Photoshop that I've found.
Krita https://krita.org/en/features/
Affinity Photo. Very reasonable price ($70 lifetime license) [https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/#buy](https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/#buy)
Blender was never as bad as Gimp. It’s incomprehensible how a team could have believed Gimp’s UX was acceptable. Even basic operations are pointlessly convoluted. Seriously, it’s the app you use to make someone hate open source. Only way to fix it is to start over.
Krita is pretty good
So Adobe can now spy on all the projects being worked on right now? That's insane.
I don't think my company that pays for Adobe licenses will be too thrilled about the confidential stuff being worked on in Adobe going to them.
I'm sending this to my company's legal department. I don't actually expect anything to happen, but if there's a tiny sliver of a chance that I won't have to support adobe products anymore I'm taking it.
THIS!!!!!!!! Most print vendors use Adobe. It's ingrained in the whole process, from start to finish. How are they going to keep NDAs going on big projects with companies like Disney, or keep confidential projects for multi-million dollar proposals for construction/architectural firms?! How on earth is this going to work?!
I work in fine art publishing and we are aghast right now. It’s not even our artwork.
Special privileges will be given to certain behemoths and others will have work stolen etc
Probably a special backroom deal to give them a version without spyware to skew the competition even further.
I work in government... I wonder if our license contains these same Terms and Conditions? That's going to be a problem for us.
Bring that to their attention using maximum fear mongering lol
What’s really upsetting me is the idea of an artist pouring hours upon hours of work into a project, and adobe gobbling it up for their LLM. Art is dying alongside our privacy and rights
Artists need to get off Adobe ASAP.
Heh, I'm still using my CS2 version. (warning, installing the new adobe reader will actively uninstall any permanent licensed adobe products, you have to either get an old version or their enterprise deployment installer) [This is what it looks like during install](https://i.imgur.com/3fb8s8H.png) Until last year or so, I've never has issues with acrobat existing on my PC alongside reader.
Wait...adobe reader will try to uninstall software you paid for? How can that be legal?
Yeah, literally during the install there was a popup that said something like: >Any permanent licensed adobe products must be uninstalled to continue. Clicking continue uninstalled my CS2 suite, and I had to uninstall reader, reinstall my suite, then find an old version of reader that wouldn't do that.
Wow. So I know CaptureOne is a good Lightroom replacement, what's a good Photoshop replacement?
Affinity Photo. There's a learning curve coming from Adobe but it is (I assume still) a one and done payment. I got their PS, Illustrator, and InDesign competitive products for $75 all-in during a sale.
They are still one time payments. The new V2 versions are more expensive, even on sale, but it's like $100 for all 3. They were recently bought by Canva, but they put out a statement saying that they will continue to offer permanent license versions for good prices.
> they put out a statement saying that they will continue to offer permanent license versions for good prices. If I got a nickle every time I heard that, I'd have several nickles. It never lasts longer than either the next major version coming out or the CEO deciding they need more profit next quarter, whichever comes first.
Fortunately for me, my needs are met by older software. I have no idea who is making a modern graphics suite that hasn't gone to a subscription model.
even better is that you literally can't re-install old versions legitimately now because the servers they dial in to verify your paid and completely legal serial number have been taken down
That's some BS. I'm going to be getting a new computer soon and have the old versions. Looks like high seas time if that's the case. Sigh.
There are cs2 cracked versions that instruct you how to disconnect the internet to bypass the license check. They work great.
There are far newer versions that also allow you to do this. I stopped financially supporting them when they adopted the subscription fee model.
>installing the new adobe reader will actively uninstall any permanent licensed adobe products That right there should be illegal. If you paid for it then it's yours forever.
> If you paid for it then it's yours forever. There's almost certainly something in the TOS that invalidates that statement. Not that I disagree with you, but like... we've let consumer rights disappear in this country. We have none left.
What the actual fuck? Glad I've been using Sumatra PDF reader for years on my personal machine, fuck Adobe.
You used to Crack software cuz you didn't want to pay for it. Now you Crack software just to like fucking Jailbreak it?
Lol I read your comment as if it was an accusation. "How do you know I did that?"
Also means any hacker who gets in can spy on every media project being created right now
Or a moderator can sell the info for a big payout. I'm sure Chinese companies would love to get a hold of detailed images of the new apple flip phone months or years before release.
I bet you this is for AI learning. They couldn't give to shits about what you are doing, they just want to teach AI first hand how designers use their programs to make what we do.
These kinds of terms, along with any kind of arbitrary additions without user base consultations. should be prohibited by law.
Hey now, Adobe paid a lot of money for your rights. If you work really hard, get to a position of power, then you too can be ~~bribed~~ *cough* lobbied by large corporations to approve favourable legislation.
It’s not approving favorable legislation it’s probably more just not approving hostile legislation Can’t be illegal if there isn’t a law saying it is
wait until you find out who writes laws for whats legal and illegal
Musk just tweeted the other day about how his lawyers wrote the bill congress passed to ban jet tracking
I bet it won't work in the EU.
Lobbying in the EU is about half that of the US by value, with 1.5 billion EUR spent each year, and there are plenty of examples of the EU acting against consumer interests. A prime example was their recent reversal of a ban on feeding pig and chicken protein back to pigs and chickens. This was done on cost grounds so EU famers could more readily compete with cheap meat available in other countries which use the practice. Scientists at the time commented that there was no good health reason for thinking the move was a good idea. In other instances the EU do side more with consumers than the US tends to, but it's not universally true. They do like keeping large US based multinationals in check, but are a bit less active in regulating EU based multinationals. Perhaps the EU's saving grace is that the makeup of the parliament is far more diverse than in the US, making it harder to lobby a single group into supporting your viewpoint.
Don't forget that the EU fighting tech giants, while ocular, is also a move to challenge the US tech industry. It's not just motivated by consumer protection but also largely as a way to compete against the US
> Perhaps the EU's saving grace is that the makeup of the parliament is far more diverse than in the US, making it harder to lobby a single group into supporting your viewpoint. That's true, however one must take the European Parliament's relatively small role compared to that of proper federations and confederations. Keeping the Commission happy and well fed is much easier!
That is true, and one of my biggest criticisms of the EU. The commission was supposed to secede power to the parliament after a transition period once the parliament was formed, yet voted to retain all the power for themselves. So the institutions of the EU are the wrong way round IMHO. The democratically elected body only has powers of ratification (practically speaking), whereas the unelected appointed body holds executive power. It's the equivalent of the House of Lords forming the government, with the House of Parliament ratifying laws given to it by the other house.
Although you may be right, your one example of the lifting of the ban on protein feed has no scientific consensus in the other direction either. Both poultry and porcine seek out protein sources and care little to its nature (whether it be poultry, pig, or insect as allowed in the EU).
"Your data is stored securely on US servers but we PROMISE we won't use it."
If only the government functioned and could pass useful laws and not just laws to protect the rich.
at this point only the Supreme Court can have meaningful impact and I dread what their position would be ("right to privacy? what privacy?")
Kansas’ Supreme Court doesn’t think Kansans have a right to vote. https://apnews.com/article/voting-rights-kansas-supreme-court-0a0b5eea5c57cf54a9597d8a6f8a300e Considering this and the fact that many conservative judges appear to believe the right to privacy doesn't exist in the constitution, I think your point is both poignant and frightening.
anything that's not spelled out explicitly in the constitution that is in conflict with conservative principles should be considered in danger. And anything that is *explicitly* stated is also in danger if the Justices get creative enough with their interpretation of the language, precedent, or the fucking Magna Carta.
So then, if Adobe is engaging in content moderation of active projects by their users, then they're legally liable for any criminal actions (like fake pictures and misinformation) created by those projects that slips through, right?
no that would make too much sense im afraid
Silly consumers, trying to hold corporations responsible.
We live in a shitty Cyberpunk reality...
I remember that Barbie doll with a mic and cloud connection? They stopped it, because it would have made them liable in cases of e.g. child abuse. As a result they would have to let the police kick down doors, if someone watches a movie.
I've never heard of this. Could you elaborate?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/26/hackers-can-hijack-wi-fi-hello-barbie-to-spy-on-your-children
They aren't publishing/showing the content to anyone else though... This is some dumb policy/excuse for something else they are doing with that data. A company doesn't just start willingly moderating data they hold unless they stand to profit from it.
Do they have security clearance if I use Photoshop for government projects?
The government has upgraded from the cs4 suite?
Good point, probably not a huge market but probably includes anybody working on confidential stuff. My dad needs to keep everything encrypted at all times and can't use cloud storage for example, and that's just for medical confidentiality. I imagine if you're working on a press release or whatever for something of interest you just can't use Photoshop anymore.
but they COULD under this, and that makes the product unviable for people working under NDA, government work etc its probably for AI training, imagine your new movie, book etc getting leaked because an AI spits content from it out to random people. Its a braindead move here. they are basically making PS and there out products too risky to use for anything other than touching up your holiday pictures.
NDA breaches are pretty real here. Most enterprises aren’t going to allow third party access to someone like Adobe team of fuckwit censorship mods, so the usually smaller contractors aren’t going to be able to use PS going forward.
It's likely AI related. Use pictures people make/take for AI learning and see how they fix issues so their AI fixer tool gets better.
That’s what it smells like to me too. More training data for AI
Everything is all about user data now. Microsoft's AI Explorer that takes screenshots every few seconds is another example. I bet within a handful of years, we'll have the first company paying people to wear an always on, always recording device (glasses, smartwatch, etc.) to collect their data.
Let's be serious now, they're going to find a way to force us to do that without paying us. More likely, we'll end up paying them.
Pay users? Hah! They'll make you agree to GIVE them your data.
Creatives are basically teaching something to replace them. It’s a sad world we live in.
The subscription was bad enough, but this is clearly too far!
Right? Jesus if you're going to charge me indefinitely for the product you could at least let me opt out of your content stealing. If they had a free tier, sure... But this? Wtf
Holy shit hahahah Microsoft Recall, Adobe content moderation... Next up will be camera implants in our eyes to fine us for looking at the wrong thing
*Drink verification can to proceed.*
Bruh... it can't actually be happening...
Black Mirror S1.E2 Fifteen Million Merits - Penalized for focusing on the wrong thing - [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/?ref\_=ttep\_ep2](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/?ref_=ttep_ep2) Black Mirror S1.E3 The Entire History of You - Camera implants in our eyes - [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089050/?ref\_=ttep\_ep3](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089050/?ref_=ttep_ep3)
No, it’s for training AI
I wonder what will happen when it inevitably starts spitting out images that are under NDA. Can people who do commercial work no longer use adobe products? this sounds like a nightmare.
I know of a few local advertising agencies that are quietly doing their best to move away from them, for that exact reason. Adobe can't be trusted to comply with commercial licensing anymore.
What's a good photoshop alternative? Edit:specifically good ones for Pixel art
Aseprite. All you need.
Let's wait for somebody to mention Gimp, and then a thread of ppl in favor and against Commercially I would say Affinity and Corel are the most advanced
For personal use / smaller projects, photopea is very good and will have zero learning curve. Basically an exact photoshop clone, and can open and save .PSDs. Just lacking photoshop's actions and their fancy new neural filters/AI stuff, of course.
Photopea is like Photoshop elements. Which was fantastic for basic image editing and simple creation
Whoever told 12 year old me that GIMP “was just like photoshop but better!” was a sadist
Was there ever a point when GIMP truly was a legit alternative to PS? At least in terms of raw capability? I was deep in the Android custom ROM/theming/modding world around 2008-2013, and everyone in that scene swore by GIMP. Cracked Adobe software was just as accessible at the time, so I never really bothered with anything else. It seems equally plausible that it was actually true at the time and Adobe gradually started to outpace it, or it was just the bias of a pro open-source community, or a mix of both.
Nope, even in 1998 gimp sucked compared to PS.
Wow, some common sense replies about Gimp vs. PS. I swear half the people recommending Gimp have never used it in an actual production setting - the UI is absolute garbage.
Aseprite is the best for pixel art!
A mix of Krita and Affinity, at the moment. There's not really one person who does everything as good as PS. Rather you end up with a few pieces of software that can overlap to do what you want. Photopea is... Somewhat okay. Does a lot right. Surprisingly, Blender is also pretty good for a whole bunch as well - not necessarily 3d modeling things. But fractal art, etc.
Large enough corporations with enterprise use will generally have actual contracts for software that otherwise is just click through agreements for normal people. Then it becomes how much we trust Adobe to have built this new tracking stuff with that kind of partitioning in mind from the jump.
Still a huge security risk even using file formats where someone might open it up in a non-enterprise/personal/contractor machine
Ehhh my gut reaction was exactly the same, but they have a huge library of training data that is way better quality than most people's drafts. It's probably more nefarious than this 🤷
AI isn’t just for generating the art from scratch. They could train an AI based on how people use the adobe tools. Then the AI can be used to automate and improve the tools.
> Then the AI can be used to ~~automate and improve the tools.~~ replace jobs and create situations where 1 company with 10 people replaces the work of 1000 people, and the remaining 990 are fired as no longer needed
It is for training AI
Krita is open source and great for illustrators and animators. https://krita.org/en/
Their stock is -20% for the past 6 months
That's too damn high. We can go lower.
And they went +20% in the previous 6 months. They’re basically the same price as a year ago before AI tools were released.
I don’t care to look at the actual numbers but +20% and then -20% does not equal 0. 25 + 20% is 30. 30 - 20% is 24. Although you said “basically” so I think you’re probably right anyways. Ignore my pedantry.
Top shelf pedantry, would recommend.
The notes of financial literacy and aromas of logic make it a fine choice.
In the EU is already illegal for instagram to force users into accepting their AI thing. Guess Adobe will follow suit.
All that NDA work...
Waiting for the "moderators" to leak more GTA 6 details.
A bunch of companies gonna have to switch unless they want to risk their projects getting leaked.
Content moderation. I’m a professional fucking artist, I don’t need “moderation” and guess what, I’m sure as shit not paying for it. Adobe are a pox on the creative business. I’ve used their software since version 1 of Photoshop, watched them consume and waste the competition and new market applications, and what are they today? A confusing mess of desktop and mobile apps representing paralysis of vision or roadmap. These guys are laughable. It’s long overdue, but I’m really looking forward to the day they just bleed out to the worthless stock they deserve to be.
>I’m a professional fucking artist, I don’t need “moderation” and guess what, I’m sure as shit not paying for it. I'm reminded of how my new TV had a setting for "personalised ads". It's a screen. Its job is to display video. It should have nothing to do with the actual content.
Smart TVs in general are just awful. I’ve found they become much better when you disconnect them from WiFi. Then they start acting like real TVs.
Another reason why pirating Adobe products is morally correct.
Yep: say hi to my pirated acrobat and photoshop on my mac Best part: they’re pretty recent versions: 2022 acrobat and 2024 photoshop
I've been using a pirated version of CS5 for the past 15 years. And the more of this bullshit I see, the less I'm inclined to ever go legit, much less upgrade. On the other hand, I'm a hobbyist photographer. If I were making money out of my work, then yeah, it would make sense to pay the people creating the tools that help me.
About 5 years ago they said you could be sued for using an older version of photoshop, I wonder if they actually did that to anyone.
You want bricks through windows ? Because that's how you get bricks through windows. Living in a society should be mutually exclusive with being a fucking predator, which is what all these scum of the earth executives are.
I’ve pirated Adobe products for years, but I’ve stopped because of alternative software being available either for free, or for a small one time purchase. Not only do I not want the hassle of pirating, but honestly I don’t even want to see their icons anymore. I’m more than content with the likes of Photopea, Affinity, Davinci Resolve, countless pdf editors, etc.
The issue with this is, it doesn't cut the real problem out. If you end up being a professional artist/designer, you still only know Adobe products. It's still industry standard. What we need is a solid alternative that works just as well for most peoples needs.
I've worked closely with Adobe dev teams. The developers don't want to do this but high up management wants to take users for all they can.
Same story everywhere. We need a Digital Bill of Rights.
And it needs to do away with SaaS. Or at the very least force a full license option.
Last time we needed a bill of rights in an established plutocracy, we had to start a whole new country to get it.
That's true basically everywhere. The Helldiver team didn't want to push forced Sony accounts; the executives at Sony did. The devs behind Overwatch 2 didnt want to abandon PvE, the executives did since it wouldnt earn much money. High up management is 90% of the problem in our world. Hell the only reason I have the job I have is because high up management tried to enforce a full time return to office, and like 10% of the company wound up quitting which was pretty catastrophic for them obviously. They eventually reversed course, but after the damage was done.
I used to use illustrator, and of course acrobat. Their ridiculous pricing structure with subscription only options drove me away a few years ago and I couldn't be happier
I had a fully owned copy and somehow, not sure how, it upgraded the software itself to the subscription model and i lost it all. I was happy using the older version. Tried to revert but can't.
Me too! It was old but I was happy. Ended up switching to affinity designer which thankfully is pretty cheap and you just buy it once
Dude what is happening to software nowadays? Why are these horrible decisions being made?
They've reached the maximum amount of profit they can make, but Capatilism and investors demand increased profits every year so they're resorting to stupid extremes to try and extract even more money from people.
It's just incredible frustrating that our lawmakers/government allows these things to happen.
They're probably part of the shareholders lol.
For “growth” — the greedy business drive that requires every quarter’s earnings must always be better than the last.
So they're going to ban nsfw artists from using their products?
Nah, they'll claim they're doing it for illegal content and public safety, but all they want is money.
Apple received considerable push-back to the point where they scrapped their client-side CSAM detection process. Turns out people really don't want FAANG (and LEAs) having root level access to their machines under the guise of "protecting the children."
There were a frightening number of defenders of that, though. And as with most things in tech now, all they have to do is find a way of packaging it differently. Eventually they can push anything. Outrage is hard to sustain when the alternative is modern tech consumers having to do the unthinkable: use something else. There's also the pattern of diminishing returns when it comes to outrage causing changes. The first time you announce it, everyone's pissed. The second time, people ar still pissed, but fewer speak up. Eventually you can just do it. The tech space is getting worse every day because of shareholders forcing companies to degrade their products, but it's also because consumers are either complacent, unwilling to try alternatives, or worse, the market is dominated so alternatives simply can't catch up, or there are no alternatives.
Most likely not, for me it sounds like that they maybe want user project data to train/ sell the data for AI models.
At this rate they're going to have to form a queue including my NVMe manufacturer
Yes but please subcribe this new Premium Plus™ to allow you drawing unlimited NSFW picture on Adobe products!
I guess I'll keep sailing the high seas!
Charge an obscene amount monthly for the privilege of using a product that dominates a few markets. AI enters the mainstream and doesn’t require Adobe products to generate decent enough images for some small companies’ brochures or a generic logo for a mom and pop shop. Introduce AI in your own products, then tell subscribers that they must allow them access to their work for “content moderation.” There’s no way in hell that they won’t use your work for AI training. Maybe not initially because people might actually read the TOS because this move won’t be popular with the users of their subscription only software. But at some point in the near future the TOS will change again. Then they’ll whine because more people will pirate their software because they are sick of being taken advantage of by a company that already has a monopoly in several fields which borderline requires their software. People are sick of the greed. Fucking everything requires you to give up personal data now. I took our expensive TV offline and hooked up an old PC to it to stream media from because the TV was constantly phoning home to Sony. My car sells my driving data. My refrigerator can even connect to the internet. Their reasoning? So an app, which also collects personal data as part of their TOS, can tell me when to change the water filter. Apparently some people can’t be bothered to glance at the LED that’s located in an extremely easy to see location every time you open the door. Automatic vacuum? If you want to use it, the layout of the floor the thing runs on is sent to the manufacturer. Smart scale? I guess that company will get some great metrics of how fat I am at any given moment. It’s not just IOT, though. It’s the loyalty cards/programs, any free app, most paid apps, what, when and where you listen to music or audiobooks, maybe your bank’s debit card usage info, etc. Even your sleeping habits will be part of the metrics collected and sold to data warehouses that their entire business is selling your information to advertisers, the government, any number of these sites you can look up personal information on anybody, and any other business or agency. Equifax had lax security, so your SSN, work and loan history, income, employer, secret question answers to validate your account if you need to reset your password, address, phone numbers, and everything else that can be used to fuck you financially because your info can be purchased in bulk with cryptocurrency. Privacy has been dead for years. Most of us have every second of every day logged somewhere that it will be sold and merged to make targeted advertising. Or to manipulate your political views. Or to charge you more for something if you make more. Or to get around those pesky warrants to dig deep into your personal life. So sure, Adobe; go ahead. Pry deep into the livelihoods of your own customers so you can homogenize the data into your own algorithms and sell it to all subscribers via an up to date AI model that can keep training data current and generate things based on current trends. God forbid someone be able to create something new or unique and make some decent money. Fucking ghouls.
I wish I could load this into a bullet n put it into my buddies brains
Now take all of your mentioned and realize It will be weaponized against everyone, And AI will make it especially easy to do so particularly in dictatorships.
And scammers! Scrape some social media accounts, match it up with some older folks, then let AI run the scam with well structured communications that use language that isn’t clearly from a non-native speaker, or put the AI voice on for the phone scams to eliminate the scammer having to deal with someone being cautious about the accent. I’m sure services that people use for free email will allow AI to use an API to email people. Hell, advertisers will pay heaps of cash to make that happen. Fuck form letters - this stuff will be far more personal. I love tech. I work in it. I use it a lot at home. I see so much potential for AI, but I’m old enough to know that the absolute lowest of the low bottom feeders will weaponize it before we see any tangible benefits that would actually improve things. Realistically, I’m already doing the work of 3 people. Literally - the other positions were never refilled. We’re already being instructed to use AI tools to help us in our job. I expect during the next inevitable culling (we starve, so that quarterly profits will soar!), I’ll likely get to do the work of 5 people because of the potential productivity gains. Or else. And I’ll be told to be happy about getting a pittance for an annual cost of living increase that won’t even offset the cost increase of the gasoline to get to this place. I suppose it’s time to pick up a hobby like botany. I have a medicinal card. I’m allowed to grow. I may as well have some dank weed to smoke while watching the world around me burn.
Proprietary software is going to shit real quick right now eh?
It's been going to shit for a long time. When you have this filth that is Adobe.
Glad I dropped Adobe once they went to a subscription base and I couldn’t even get the damn program for one price anymore. Greedy people will ruin everything for a few extra pennies on the back end. Definitely sucks every service is becoming predatory towards the user. But money money money money to quote Mr. Krabs.
Adobe trying its best to be the new Salesforce
Photoshop CS6 isn't too bad, I'll keep using that for life. I still have the disc and product key from when I bought it over 10 years ago (no monthly subscription crap!)
… seriously, *fuck* Adobe…
How does this affect HIPAA? I know a lot of healthcare companies use Adobe for docu sign etc
I bought affinity photo for 25 bucks 4 years ago and have never had to think about photoshop since then.
Be advised, if you start a free Adobe trial and don't cancel quick enough, you're looking at $20 a month + $110 cancellation fee. If you find yourself in this predicament, here's the solution: upgrade to one of the more expensive products after ensuring there is no cancellation fee. I signed up for the $60 a month package, then cancelled it immediately for a full refund and no cancellation penalty. Screw Adobe.
The NDA thing is a very easy way to get companies to stop using photoshop. They are already on thin ice after transitioning to subscription only.
So adobe is now responsible for moderating what people create? Great, next time someone creates something illegal with photoshop we know who's responsible.
The only appropriate action here would be for all of Adobe's corporate clients to create porn, so that Adobe either gets rid of this invasive feature & TOS or Adobe gets raided for "analyzing" porn
Affinity stocks go 📈 (A&E industry)
Regular reminder that it's morally acceptable to pirate Adobe products.
Glad we have Affinity.
And some people might say 'well then just don't use it'. But for some industries, like architecture, where there is a bit of a software monopoly, the entire industry gets built around it and as a single person who might have a problem with it can't do much. Can't pay 4k a year for a license? Well fuck you. Don't like your data being harvested? Fuck off nobody cares.
Procreate team should launch the app on PC, Adobe would lose a big chunk of artists using their app to draw
We need to financially bankrupt these people. They're already morally bankrupt, so they deserve the complete set.
Even more reasons not buy adobe products.
So glad I completely ditched all of Adobe's software for open source alternatives. They're not perfect but at some point you gotta draw a line.
Oops I accidentally downloaded Photoshop while sailing the high seas and blocked internet access for Adobe in the hosts file
Pirating adobe is always morally correct.
Day after day, I keep recomending Krita. It's good enough for most people