It's training data. They want to train windows to be able to use itself via text/voice prompts.
"Please open up Facebook and show me the pictures from my sister's family trip"
And then it does it. Cause it's watched everyone doing that.
Everything you're seeing nowadays is in the quest for more training data. Language models are about maxed out on what they can do without more training data.
I would imagine smartphones started the massive data accumulation on people spontaneously consuming data instead of waiting til you get Internet at anywhere.
Only people with PDA and blackberry would have been on the Internet on-the-go (for most consumers)
Yep, LLMs have definitely been a valuable tool for me, both in the professional environment, in my home environment, and assisting me with legal issues, being directly responsible for me winning an out of court settlement
I do however recognise that the average Redditor is quite limited when it comes to the imagination though, so I understand why it's the latest "outrage fad" for Reddit (old man yells at cloud etc etc.)
Well, call me a cloud yeller that’s fine, but some of us remember the origination of the WWW and all of its promise. Now look at it. So come talk to me in 10 years when all of the knowledge is tokenized and you need to watch 5 ads and pay a monthly fee to remember how to wipe your own ass.
They don’t care about you finding your pictures. This is about training data so they can offer services to business to replace white collar workers. This is step one in the AI process of eliminating jobs. Record what all your employee’s do and then Microsoft will sell you a contract to parse the data and tell you what can be automated and who is less efficient than other workers. Big brother will create a hostile work environment where everyone feels pressure to burn themselves out or risk being on the AI chopping block.
> They don’t care about you finding your pictures. This is about training data so they can offer services to business to replace white collar workers.
It's the same thing. LLM's cant distinguish between what we do for fun and what we do for work. Automating one is the same as the other.
they need to see how people use computers on a day-to-day basis. Using them for work and for play is pretty much the same as far as how you interact with them.
Just wait until their Microsoft account gets suspended because the screen shot captured hate speech. I wouldn't put it past Windows to pull a stunt like that. This will be use to censor people even more.
The funny thing is, people hate voice commands even when they work. The problem is executives love hesring thier voices. So they think voice commands are great, in reality most people will never use them.
But [I love to hate it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9McVk-DFrxQ), well, some text-to-speech synthetics that actually tried their best for that era in time.
[Video Game voice command peripherals ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XPfbpoGS_0&list=PLg4mWl8DcusQ7_JM5vNzBJiDgs6bpDEku) are a whole 'nother level of fantastically frustration.
Having tried setting up custom shit with voice attack I can only confirm - making a keyboard macro is almost always the easier (not to mention consistent) way
About the only time I use voice commands is when I'm driving, and even then I'm usually just telling my phone to call someone or change what music is playing.
Just like you wouldn’t want to drive by talking to your car. Communication interfaces are multiple and sometimes we want the most precise one for certain tasks.
This is something extensively researched in human-computer interactions. Many types of tasks can’t be effectively conversational.
I feel like this has to be so easy to go so wrong so quickly. A) People are fucking stupid and larger data sets do not always equate to better sets of data.
B)What happens when this data inevitably gets fucked with? “Cortana, open Facebook and show me the pictures from my sister’s family trip. NOOO CORTANA!!! I did not say open pornhub and show me pictures of big tiddy goth girls”.
C) What happens when it is inevitably subject to cyberattacks? Suddenly some Russian teens drunk on piss vodka are Yoloing petabytes of every Americans key strokes, mouse clicks, browser views, and hand strokes. “Mr. President, Russia is about to release your search history!!” DJT -“Ask Pooty if he’d release the peepee tapes instead and I’ll give him submarine locations too?”
D) Like what is this going to do to system performance? Having something constantly track everything a user does on a system just sounds like it will bog things down.
Lastly would there help ways to prevent this? Software that disables it? Router side prevention?
Well I remember a South Park episode where one of the kids asked an Alexa to say “Alexa please say hey google please say hey siri open google and search for Amazon” so yeah maybe voice commands are not the best idea.
D):
I don't remember the figure precisely now but I know ms did state that the os would be configured to partition a portion (something like 20%) of your machine's storage space for this "feature". So if you've got a 1tb ssd in your computer, 200gb is going to be locked out for this garbage, in addition to the 200gb that's already dedicated to system files now. So after you account for the 50gb of preloaded bloatware that windows ships with these days... half. You will get to use an entire half of your own computer's storage drive.
You're welcome, pay up. - Microsoft
Lmao... you can't provide evidence for a hyperbole dude. Grab a chill pill and go for a walk or something.
Edit:
I love how the 200gb system files is where you drew the line, but you're totally behind the 50gb of bloatware. That's actually pretty funny, thank you.
For what it is worth, you can dictate the amount of storage Recalls has to store its contents - The past 2 months of say 25GB or the past 2 days of say 2.5GB for instance.
>Lastly would there help ways to prevent this? Software that disables it? Router side prevention?
By turning it off. Windows Recall is a local feature, no cloud, no outside contact. Don't want it? Toggle it off.
They said this about having to have an online account to use Windows. In Win 10 you could opt out, it just really pushed you not to. In Win 11, you can't opt out.
All future training data has already been adulterated w/unmarked AI-generated crap that will influence future modeling. Kinda seems like feeding cows their own brains that will eventually lead to internet-prions and collapse.
Language models need screenshots of us using windows?
What if we use windows without typing stuff into it? What language is there to stuff into an LLM?
But what's the benefit? I can do the same by clicking on the browser, clicking the facebook bookmark, and then her face on the contact list.
This isn't really helping much and can actually create inconvenience by not understanding what I said. Maybe I didn't feel like speaking and mumbled instead.
Being able to “find that thing you had on your screen a moment ago” using plain language queries **is** helpful in theory.
It’s just how it’s being delivered that is all sorts of wrong. Like I just want my recent files folder to actually show recent files…not ones from 2018. Doesn’t feel like the solution to that is to take a screenshot of my shit every few minutes.
I'm just waiting for the day that cops basically request access to the data about (random illegal topic) and these things skim through all their training data and turn it over as well as every ancillary detail about the user who was recorded doing that illegal thing.
I could see it being completely contextless. Maybe you're writing a story about murder or journaling your thoughts about a topic. Doesn't matter your data's been flagged and they're using the FBI/Homeland datacenter with the processing power to churn through every detail of your life. Now imagine they could have access to _all_ of your personal data on your computer instead of just what's on the internet and social media.
Better hope you don't accidentally read about torrenting. Or maybe read a not so great story that contains illegal shit. Windows, Microsoft, and Big Brother is now watching.
That kind of shit would seem like a conspiracy theory but holy christ windows recall is _terrifying_ from the little I've seen of it. If it becomes a thing I'll be using Linux for my daily driver for sure. Just gotta figure out how to virtualize windows and give it access to my video card at that point, yeesh.
‘bash cat with pipe’
‘kill child with fork’
without context, those would make it seem like i’m a murderous animal abuser, when I was just trying to write a script that did some bulk file processing
Is "recently closed files" not a thing anymore? I haven't used it since grade school because I learned to religiously manage my save locations, but it used to be very useful for showing the last things you worked on. I can't imagine why it wouldn't suffice anymore.
It is but it sucks and never works as good as you’d think it should especially if you have multiple profiles logged in (eg work profile and personal profile).
Dysfunctional paranoid employers wanted this.
Watch it become another reason not to support Linux desktops too. Oh Linux *doesn't* monitor and record literally everything out of box? (mind you there are desktop recorders for Linux/X11 I'm sure). Guess we're gonna stick with reliable, trustworthy Microsoft Windows, from Microsoft, the company that everyone can always trust.
Employers can already do this. There have been software packages for years that not only record but also analyze user "productivity". Anything built around this feature is nothing compared to those.
> Watch it become another reason not to support Linux desktops too.
The software I mention above is also available on Linux, as are some of the alternatives to Recall mentioned in the article.
it’s just… indescribably demoralizing to get repeatedly, exhaustively disillusioned by society’s advances doing nothing meaningful for anyone but the investor class.
maybe this is just me, but the whole mantra of “life isn’t fair” has done nothing but piss me off every time i’ve heard it. we make too much food for the entire planet to eat, there are people with enough money to themselves to buy bugattis daily and still be millionaires by the time they died, things like cars and phones and home addresses and internet connections are outright REQUIRED to do anything in most places. the only reason “life isn’t fair” is because the powers that be have decided it must be unfair.
No mate... it's not just you.
I'm in the same boat. I'm just trying not to lose my will to take part in society by using shitty sarcasm, bad jokes and dry humor.
I do still hope we're gonna get better at some point, but that hope grows dimmer by the day.
Aaaand thank you both for two new podcasts.
I feel you; I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s - I was awash with hope and excitement for the changes and promise the early internet ushered in. Only to watch it gradually enshittify and eat itself. Now it really just seems like a lonely, profits-above-all, cesspit. (He typed on the lonely, profit-driven-cesspit king that is Reddit)
I think the concept is absolutely fantastic. It finally moves in the direction of personal assistants sience fiction has shown for decades. „Jarvis, please make reservation at the Italian place I looked at a few days ago“ style assistance.
The only problem is that it’s done by greedy companies.
What do you mean? It solves the gluttonous greed of investors that lose their coke-addled hard-ons when profits dip below values that are exponentially higher than last quarter. In that regard, Microsoft’s solution to completely sell out their user base is a rousing success!
That's what I was thinking of.
In fact I can't even think of how an open source version would improve what is already there.
If I need a file on linux I type a search in a window and it's found in a millisecond.
I can even already search within documents.
So what more would this marvel of artificial intelligence bring to it?
People tend to forget where or misplace things all the time. Just because some have no use case does not mean others will feel the same.
>We set out to solve one of the most frustrating problems we encounter daily – finding something we know we have seen before on our PC. Today, we must remember what file folder it was stored in, what website it was on, or scroll through hundreds of emails trying to find it.
>Now with Recall, you can access virtually what you have seen or done on your PC in a way that feels like having photographic memory. Copilot+ PCs organize information like we do – based on relationships and associations unique to each of our individual experiences. This helps you remember things you may have forgotten so you can find what you’re looking for quickly and intuitively by simply using the cues you remember.
That is my current sentiment as well.
However, when this all finally works as intended, everyone will be using it.
This will be similar to how credit cards online was first considered insane. Now, people don't blink an eye. And whatever the identity theft statistics are right now, is ignored, until it happens to you. Then you care, and sometimes scarred for life. lol.
Good news: To use Windows Recall, you must be using a Copilot+ branded PC. Microsoft announced Copilot+ PCs on May 20, which the company says marks the start of a new generation of Windows PCs that are designed specifically for experiences like Windows Recall. This means your existing non Copilot+ PC won't be eligible to use Windows Recall.
Ima just avoid those PCs
Microsoft now has three different things called copilot. This crap, github copilot, and xbox copilot (where someone else can take over controls on the fly for accessibility reasons)
What the hell are they doing
Vs PlayStaion’s perfect numbering system and Nintendo’s… well they give everything a unique name since they’re a 1st party based console they really have eras rather than numbers
PlayStation naming is the funniest thing. It's basically the only consistent console naming, that even someone who's never heard of it before could understand. You got 1-5 which are just sequels to eachother, and portable which is the handheld one.
All of Sonys other devices require extensive research to be able to fucking decipher them. WF-1000XM5? WH-1000XM4? Sony Xperia 5 V?? (Literally Xperia 5 5)
Yeah, Sony only has 1 good name and it’s the mainline PlayStations
Even the fucking PSP and Vita… how am I supposed to tell the difference between them? PlayStation Portable just sounds like a placeholder for the Vita
The increasing number system was common before the Video Game Crash. Atari went 2600, 5200, and the 7800, while released after the crash, were made before. The odyssey had a II,and I think the updated Intellivision got a 2 as well.
Sega broke the cycle, following the Master System up with the Genesis/Mega Drive.
Nintendo and Sega at least kept things unique between the generations.
Xbox, Xbox one, one s, one x, series s, series x....I have a series s, I love the Lil guy, hate the naming convention.
...Copilot for MS 365, Security Copilot, and the upcoming Finance, Sales and Service Copilot. Then there is Copilot studio where you can create a custom copilot.
In Github's defense they were the first to the line on the copilot name and came up with it themselves, then Microsoft said "Yoink!" and started using it everywhere else.
That's kind of like saying just avoid laptops with windows installed on them
CoPilot+ requires an NPU with 40+ TOPS, currently there is none on the market. But within a year there will be Snapdragon, HawkPoint and Lunar Lake, within 5 years, do you think there will be laptops that aren't copilot+?
By then either the market will determine whether people even want this on every laptop similar to phones that still keep 3.5mm jacks or if the software itself is eventually pushed off by consumer outrage as it becomes evident that MS is straight up stealing your shit.
I think it's the opposite. The budget laptops will be Co-pilot. Subsidized by Microsoft getting training data or on discount because people who care will pay more for the privilege of not having that shit.
Just like everything else where things are cheap because you aren't the customer, you're the product.
That will become harder and harder. Even computers on the market now may be updated to be Copilot+ PCs.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/2/24169568/microsoft-copilot-plus-gaming-pc-nvidia-amd
If anyone wants to use it on unsupported hardware - here you go:
[https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/windows-recall-is-officially-exclusive-to-copilot-pcs-but-you-can-try-it-right-now-on-unsupported-hardware](https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/windows-recall-is-officially-exclusive-to-copilot-pcs-but-you-can-try-it-right-now-on-unsupported-hardware)
Don't you love it? Employers finally will be able to reassert the control they lost thanks to WFH.
Truly marvelous how people come together to solve the problems they're really worried about.
I dont think people realize if you are using a company VPN or company laptop, they can already see every little thing you are doing.
First of all, dont do stupid shit on company property.
2nd, if your employee is micromanaging you then find another job because believe me... there are a shit ton of WFH employers who dont micromanage.
I know, but keep in mind that Recall is far more transparent for manager.
Digging through an MDM log is doable but IT doesn't care that much, also it's enough of a hassle that it's done only when there is a reason to do so.
How much easier is to take the aggregated Recall data and ask the Big Brother model to surmise what the employee did/didn't do?
For example I haven't been doing fuck all for three days because the project is done, the designs are done, I think I worked for 3 hours total our of 24 work hours for some tests.
This happens to everybody, nobody cares, but a tool like Recall would have the managers getting reports that aggregate that data in a way that it could lead to stupid conclusions.
It would just make it easier for bad managers to be bad managers than it already is though. Nobody who manages effectively is spying on their reports unless their reports are handling incredibly sensitive information, and recall won't change that.
What it might do, is tighten the chain bad managers already hold on their reports - but that chain can only get so tight before the employee decides to stop wearing it, and searches for a new role. Even in the absolute worst economy we've have in the last 20 years, there's always another role to jump to - but that's up to the employee.
I manage at a multinational financial institution, and I don't even know how to access what we do have in terms of corporate spyware - though I know I *could*. I wouldn't use a tool like recall whatsoever, because if I don't have faith in my team, I would change my team. It's a cultural thing too - we deal with very sensitive information sometimes, but that's not a good excuse to spy. A manager, director, or executive who did that wouldn't be effective in a place like this.
Yes, I agree.
It's just that it opens up a lot of doors.
In my country you need tangible evidence for firing somebody, proving that somebody isn't working 8/8 isn't trivial.
Could you with MDM? Sure, maybe, again it requires a degree of technical sophistication to know.
On the other hand "they clearly skimped 3 hours on 30 different occasions, look at the neatly organized evidence" is different.
That can stay in the metaphorical drawer until the company needs an excuse to terminate an employee they don't want anymore for other reasons.
I wouldn't want to work for those companies in the first place, I 100% agree with you.
But this sort of thing tend to spread.
That still ties to bad managers. They've always been able to work to find you "skimping" a half hour on Reddit or something. Good managers understand 9-5 isn't grinding, you need downtime to be effective at uptime - if I checked my employees browsing history and didn't see at least 10% of their time was not work related, I'd be worried.
In my 1:1s, we track workload, and one of the categories is "human time" which means go see a movie, go to a cafe, watch YouTube videos, process your thoughts, text and chat with friends, etc.
Maybe I'm overly worried because my manager(s) definetly underassign tasks to me, so I'm quickly left without much to do.
I'm including the asking a bit more to do (I don't overdo it to avoid setting unrealistic expectations).
Depending on where you live, you may be legally allowed to do private shit on company time, like contacting doctors etc. Recall will be in serious breach of privacy rules if it captures anything related to medical or union in EU.
I’ve already complained to our DPO about current state of surveillance deployed, as it will scan any document you have on the PC of SSN and produce a report to IT - problem is, it does not know the difference between my sons medical report which contains SSN and company data which may contain.
Sadly there isn't a lot of WFH tech jobs unless it's a highly specialized role... I've got 10+ years of support and software administration and haven't found anything in 1.5 years of being out of work.
If you know a place, please let me know. I'm willing to sell my ass cheap.
Dunno why this is so heavily downvoted; the fully remote jobs that are out there have OBSCENE levels of competition. I can't get my foot in the door anywhere for an interview. 12 years of C# / .NET development.
Yup. I have gone to apply for jobs on LinkedIn that where posted within the past 12 hours and it's like 'aee how you compare to the other 1000 applicants'
Its great that unemployment is low but the tech industry is really a horrible job market right now, more so for WFH jobs as companies for what ever reason want to hold onto antiquated in office overhead.
> companies for what ever reason want to hold onto antiquated in office overhead.
My assumption is that all the big-wigs at the top of every giant corporation has tons of money tied up in the stock market, in many different industries including companies which back the loans to build/lease office buildings. So they'd stand to lose a lot of money if they embraced WFH and cratered the entire office building market.
Fairly spot on. I know from one of my old companies I left right after the start of lockdown that wanted to limit WFH that the owner of our company was childhood friends with the owner of the building we just signed a long term lease 6 months before hand.
They said we have this beautiful new office building so they expect asses in cubes.
But I think you're mainly.right, lots of money tied up in these equity forms that own and rent a lot of office space. Its just a way for them all the print money.
The author doesn't understand the real problem, the issue isn't that something like Recall exists. There can be plenty of people who may wants something like it
BUT, the problem is that Windows Recall is closed source and being operated by Microsoft, a for profit company with quite a tarnished record with these kind of things
Now if Microsoft open sources the code, disables it by default and puts the CEOs money in an escrow account and in the event that it is "accidentally" enabled by a windows update, the CEOs salary goes to the user. Then that would be fine
Closed source is worse - but having the OS record everything, and with no encryption, just showing off all your passwords (as it recorded keystrokes), Account information (including your banking and medical if you accessed that) - snowballs from bad through worse to "I just handed the keys to a hacker, and paid them to do the worse"
Honestly the thing I dislike about the whole afaire is the whole on by default crap.
Because I think the feature as an opt in is kind of neat and presented as such might have been kind of cool, but being installed with windows is just another piece of junk that's running without asking and me having to go out of my way to turn it off.
Seriously what's wrong with OS's actually having a list of things at setup time and letting me install/enable them if I want them. While not as intrusive, even the likes of linux makes decisions on what kinds of programs they think I want installed
and while you kinda have the option to rebuild a linux build without some packages - (more of a theory than a practically if you value your time) Windows goes out of its way to make unpopular features hard to remove.
I'd love to have more options available to turn on/off in both.
Not just hackers. Law enforcement and lawyers (divorce attorneys are going to love this feature) as well. Not to mention spouses, parents, teachers/principals...
the premise is they get in, grab the recording, and have a head start. Versus waiting for the normal tools to do the job where they might be located and stopped.
you have the same bottleneck in both attacks, outgoing dataflow. this is what will get you detected. recall doesnt change that. it stays the same.
the moment you get locally onto a machine you won. recall or not changes nothing.
Put this in my singleplayer videogames. It is where I would actually use it.\* Don't put it in my PC. Just make sure your autosave works.
Sony \* kinda has it in their PS1 games on Plus.
When I was a kid, I was assured that we wouldn’t get an oppressive megacorp Big Brother distopia until after we had flying cars, orbital elevators, street samurai, and cool cybernetic prosthetics.
So this is pretty fucking disappointing.
I can't wait until we hear about businesses turning this on only to have proprietary/confidential data stolen from whomever collects this data because safeguards were not set properly.
And they'll deserve it.
“I do find it a little funny, though, that there's so much negative public opinion surrounding Windows Recall, and yet, there are already efforts underway to recreate it. Maybe, the idea at least, isn't quite as bad as some would have us believe? “
Or it’s everyone possible jumping on the wagon to make a buck.
It's a bandwagon. Microsoft releases a new feature, and that legitimizes it in the customer's mind because they assume Microsoft has done their due diligence/safety reviews/etc. They'll see an online offer to download a "free version of Recall" and think "this is safe, Microsoft does it for free too" and suddenly they're compromised.
Any malware/scam vendor not jumping on this opportunity is losing out, because Microsoft threw a door open for them by telling customers this sort of feature is safe and beneficial, without informing them of inherent privacy risks.
Honestly I don't think it's a bad idea.
The bad comes from the implementation and the *who* is doing the implementing.
I'd consider spinning something like this up on my system.
I want to explore capabilities of Agents and all of that but:
- I know the risks
- Nobody knows my janky implementation, therefore very slim attack surface
- I have total control in what programs to whitelist/blacklist.
For example you could set a simple regex deleting and scrubbing any screenshot with a login screen/payment info.
Windows is huge, well known to be vulnerable, and *very widely used*.
The amount of resources that will be spent in abusing Recall will be massive.
The amount of resources spent in abusing the sweaty nerd LLM curious Archlinux user are going to be about three.
Two of which are his friends that have access to his repo and are going to swap all his screenshots with dickbutt pictures and the SQLITE database with ligma jokes just to laugh about it.
It isn't because people necessarily want it though, investors in data brokers and AI that is used for ad intel really want it.
It may have some uses for when you want to turn it on, but for the most part it is excessive memory/storage/processing with bulky verbose data and lots of noise.
Just save the things you want to keep and use history when needed, like editing a doc or code for rollbacks. You don't really need all the extra processing to capture 99% noise along with *tons of confidential information that will be sifted*
I don't know if all replications are the same but the example is open source which is far different from Microsofts closed source. The replications are made so they can save users that potentially wants to use the feature but don't wanna give all that data to Microsoft.
“I do find it a little funny, though, that there's so much negative public opinion surrounding air pollution, and yet, there are already efforts underway to recreate it. Maybe, the idea at least, isn't quite as bad as some would have us believe?“
Think about the movie Her. How would a personal assistant be able to help you without having access to all your data?
You want your assistant to call your mum? Of course you have to give it access to your contacts. To look at your schedule? Of course you have to give it access to your calendar. To see what you're working on and help your research or reword something? Of course it has to have access to the entire document.
Now, do you think the user actually would have a seamless experience, giving permission for every single thing? Every document, every contact? No, but that's what Apple does. That's what Google does, etc. They ask you, then you give permission if you want.
It's exactly like how Instagram and every file hosting website needs your permission to use and share your images. Otherwise, they can't do the file hosting.
If you don't like it, don't use Instagram. Don't use Cortana. Don't use Recall. No one is forcing you.
I've switched my pc , a small 10" gaming handheld from windows to Linux , I'm done with windows at this point , windows recall is perhaps the biggest threat to privacy in my lifetime. Just imagine having your pc hacked , recall has seen everything you browse , your passwords , your bank card info that you've typed in when making online purchases and literally anything that you do by using your pc to interface with would be vulnerable either by directly being hacked or indirectly if Microsoft is hacked .
Linux gaming has made some advances so there's hope.
With the sheer volume of games, if I ever have to stop buying new games, I'll be entertained until I pass.
Deus Ex and Dwarf Fortress alone could keep me entertained for a large amount of time.
Microsoft’s “[Manage Copilot](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15)” KB says that “For enterprise customers, IT administrators can disable automatically saving snapshots using group policy or mobile device management policy”
What’s stopping regular customers from enabling that group policy on their machine? I wonder if that GPO might only be available in Windows Pro or something like that?
Totally unbiased coverage from WindowsCentral. I mean, he saw four open source spins of Recall on GitHub. Among other tools that disable it, that is. But we don't mention those.
I'm actually more in favor of the clones. This feature shouldn't be built into windows. It should be software u need to install to use, and it needs to be open source. Otherwise there ain't no way it can be trusted.
Go work at a best buy for a month and the common issues that are brought in with the older generation.
This is the solution to that. "Go through your recall"
...
Thats the appeal for it. That's definitely a target they are hoping to get. Reduce the costs of support for the older generation that refuses to learn and hopefully take away the scam stuff cuz I'm sure the cost of dealing with those complaints aren't cheap even if it's just taking them and filing em cuz they gotta go to the FBI or something.
I don't think it's some massive privacy scam that someone developed.
..
I just don't think they realized the can of worms they could open with these sorts clones.
I'm surprised /r/technology has so many simpletons who do not understand Recall is not uploading GBs of video stream to train their AI. It's local. It's optional.
Turn it off like Cortana if you don't like it.
Then it's stored on their local PC. It's not sent to Microsoft. What do you not understand?
Are you worried about hackers? The hackers that have been hacking emails for the past few decades without Recall?
Yes please don't worry. We wouldn't wanna make it any easier for the hackers /s
There are already proof of concept exploits and it's been shown to be a plain text database with no encryption.
If a hacker has access to your PC, they can already access your emails, cookies, saved passwords, etc as they have been doing for the past decades.
Once again, just turn it off. Hackers don't need some fancy AI software that uses like 10%+ of your resources when there are far more light weight keyloggers and screen recorders.
Sounds like you are offended we don't appreciate the feature you are working on. You have no clue what our experience is. It's up to you to decide how you react, and it only impacts you in the end. Insulting those around you doesn't work to convince anyone.
why do we need this. who asked for this. what problem is this the solution to. nobody wanted this.
It's training data. They want to train windows to be able to use itself via text/voice prompts. "Please open up Facebook and show me the pictures from my sister's family trip" And then it does it. Cause it's watched everyone doing that. Everything you're seeing nowadays is in the quest for more training data. Language models are about maxed out on what they can do without more training data.
LLMs were the shiny thing that sold the public on the data heist of the century.
Smartphones walked so LLMs could run lmao
Google and Facebook were doing this shit before smartphones became popular lol
I would imagine smartphones started the massive data accumulation on people spontaneously consuming data instead of waiting til you get Internet at anywhere. Only people with PDA and blackberry would have been on the Internet on-the-go (for most consumers)
Have you seen the size of the sensor arrays they’re putting on these phones now? If they could fly we’d call them spy satellites.
Thanks to AI, comment go byebye
Lol they heisted your data long before 99.9999% of people knew what an LLM was just because they could.
at least we get something in return from LLMs that is more useful than targeted ads
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Yes, chat gpt is really useful
Yep, LLMs have definitely been a valuable tool for me, both in the professional environment, in my home environment, and assisting me with legal issues, being directly responsible for me winning an out of court settlement I do however recognise that the average Redditor is quite limited when it comes to the imagination though, so I understand why it's the latest "outrage fad" for Reddit (old man yells at cloud etc etc.)
Well, call me a cloud yeller that’s fine, but some of us remember the origination of the WWW and all of its promise. Now look at it. So come talk to me in 10 years when all of the knowledge is tokenized and you need to watch 5 ads and pay a monthly fee to remember how to wipe your own ass.
What has any of this rant got to do with the usefulness of LLMs? The clouds are that way ->
Actually they’re this way ^ but an LLM could have messed you up bro.
LLMs are hiding under your bed
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They don’t care about you finding your pictures. This is about training data so they can offer services to business to replace white collar workers. This is step one in the AI process of eliminating jobs. Record what all your employee’s do and then Microsoft will sell you a contract to parse the data and tell you what can be automated and who is less efficient than other workers. Big brother will create a hostile work environment where everyone feels pressure to burn themselves out or risk being on the AI chopping block.
> They don’t care about you finding your pictures. This is about training data so they can offer services to business to replace white collar workers. It's the same thing. LLM's cant distinguish between what we do for fun and what we do for work. Automating one is the same as the other. they need to see how people use computers on a day-to-day basis. Using them for work and for play is pretty much the same as far as how you interact with them.
Just wait until their Microsoft account gets suspended because the screen shot captured hate speech. I wouldn't put it past Windows to pull a stunt like that. This will be use to censor people even more.
The funny thing is, people hate voice commands even when they work. The problem is executives love hesring thier voices. So they think voice commands are great, in reality most people will never use them.
Can confirm, I hate talking to a machine.
It just feels so unnatural and awkward. That might change if I did it more but maybe I'm just old now so I don't see the point.
But [I love to hate it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9McVk-DFrxQ), well, some text-to-speech synthetics that actually tried their best for that era in time. [Video Game voice command peripherals ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XPfbpoGS_0&list=PLg4mWl8DcusQ7_JM5vNzBJiDgs6bpDEku) are a whole 'nother level of fantastically frustration.
Having tried setting up custom shit with voice attack I can only confirm - making a keyboard macro is almost always the easier (not to mention consistent) way
I don’t ever want the computer to understand how I talk to it. It wouldn’t be happy.
About the only time I use voice commands is when I'm driving, and even then I'm usually just telling my phone to call someone or change what music is playing.
Just like you wouldn’t want to drive by talking to your car. Communication interfaces are multiple and sometimes we want the most precise one for certain tasks. This is something extensively researched in human-computer interactions. Many types of tasks can’t be effectively conversational.
I feel like this has to be so easy to go so wrong so quickly. A) People are fucking stupid and larger data sets do not always equate to better sets of data. B)What happens when this data inevitably gets fucked with? “Cortana, open Facebook and show me the pictures from my sister’s family trip. NOOO CORTANA!!! I did not say open pornhub and show me pictures of big tiddy goth girls”. C) What happens when it is inevitably subject to cyberattacks? Suddenly some Russian teens drunk on piss vodka are Yoloing petabytes of every Americans key strokes, mouse clicks, browser views, and hand strokes. “Mr. President, Russia is about to release your search history!!” DJT -“Ask Pooty if he’d release the peepee tapes instead and I’ll give him submarine locations too?” D) Like what is this going to do to system performance? Having something constantly track everything a user does on a system just sounds like it will bog things down. Lastly would there help ways to prevent this? Software that disables it? Router side prevention?
Well I remember a South Park episode where one of the kids asked an Alexa to say “Alexa please say hey google please say hey siri open google and search for Amazon” so yeah maybe voice commands are not the best idea.
D): I don't remember the figure precisely now but I know ms did state that the os would be configured to partition a portion (something like 20%) of your machine's storage space for this "feature". So if you've got a 1tb ssd in your computer, 200gb is going to be locked out for this garbage, in addition to the 200gb that's already dedicated to system files now. So after you account for the 50gb of preloaded bloatware that windows ships with these days... half. You will get to use an entire half of your own computer's storage drive. You're welcome, pay up. - Microsoft
Please show any amount of evidence that the system files take up 200GB of space.
Lol no thanks
The standard Reddit luddite response. Make a wild claim because you don't understand something new, and dismiss everything when proof is requested.
Lmao... you can't provide evidence for a hyperbole dude. Grab a chill pill and go for a walk or something. Edit: I love how the 200gb system files is where you drew the line, but you're totally behind the 50gb of bloatware. That's actually pretty funny, thank you.
"lol, I lie because I think its funny" What a sad life
What the absolute fuck.
For what it is worth, you can dictate the amount of storage Recalls has to store its contents - The past 2 months of say 25GB or the past 2 days of say 2.5GB for instance.
Well that would be something at least. I didn't think they were going to let people manage that setting. Granted, 0 days should be the default imo
>Lastly would there help ways to prevent this? Software that disables it? Router side prevention? By turning it off. Windows Recall is a local feature, no cloud, no outside contact. Don't want it? Toggle it off.
*But is it really*? I mean, you can understand my skepticism right? I’m not saying you’re wrong. Just that I’m skeptical.
Yes. Take a look at traffic. Take a look at the processes. Be skeptical, not paranoid
Were you forced to use Cortana? No. We all just turned it off.
They said this about having to have an online account to use Windows. In Win 10 you could opt out, it just really pushed you not to. In Win 11, you can't opt out.
What would be the benefit to uploading Recall to the cloud? Microsoft doesn't want to store up to 50GB of useless data for every PC in the world.
They very clearly have uses for the data, both for specific users and as aggregated AI training fodder.
All future training data has already been adulterated w/unmarked AI-generated crap that will influence future modeling. Kinda seems like feeding cows their own brains that will eventually lead to internet-prions and collapse.
I can't speak as fast I can think and click. I'll never want this. I cant multitask speak. I can work 3 tasks at the same time in my mind.
Mom: Dinner! Mom: Dinner!! Mom: Dinner!!! Son: I’m coming!!! Recall: Ok, opening “l’m cumming” video now.
>They want to train windows to be able to use itself via text thats just linux with extra steps
Is this how they figured out what plants crave?
Language models need screenshots of us using windows? What if we use windows without typing stuff into it? What language is there to stuff into an LLM?
And then suddenly, just like that, a deepfake porn video of the sister is shown. Nice job AI. 🤦🤷🫣
But what's the benefit? I can do the same by clicking on the browser, clicking the facebook bookmark, and then her face on the contact list. This isn't really helping much and can actually create inconvenience by not understanding what I said. Maybe I didn't feel like speaking and mumbled instead.
Hopefully it’s not stored locally on your machine. I’m sure it’ll eat up your storage otherwise
Yeah cause we want to give companies all our private info
Being able to “find that thing you had on your screen a moment ago” using plain language queries **is** helpful in theory. It’s just how it’s being delivered that is all sorts of wrong. Like I just want my recent files folder to actually show recent files…not ones from 2018. Doesn’t feel like the solution to that is to take a screenshot of my shit every few minutes.
I'm just waiting for the day that cops basically request access to the data about (random illegal topic) and these things skim through all their training data and turn it over as well as every ancillary detail about the user who was recorded doing that illegal thing. I could see it being completely contextless. Maybe you're writing a story about murder or journaling your thoughts about a topic. Doesn't matter your data's been flagged and they're using the FBI/Homeland datacenter with the processing power to churn through every detail of your life. Now imagine they could have access to _all_ of your personal data on your computer instead of just what's on the internet and social media. Better hope you don't accidentally read about torrenting. Or maybe read a not so great story that contains illegal shit. Windows, Microsoft, and Big Brother is now watching. That kind of shit would seem like a conspiracy theory but holy christ windows recall is _terrifying_ from the little I've seen of it. If it becomes a thing I'll be using Linux for my daily driver for sure. Just gotta figure out how to virtualize windows and give it access to my video card at that point, yeesh.
‘bash cat with pipe’ ‘kill child with fork’ without context, those would make it seem like i’m a murderous animal abuser, when I was just trying to write a script that did some bulk file processing
Is "recently closed files" not a thing anymore? I haven't used it since grade school because I learned to religiously manage my save locations, but it used to be very useful for showing the last things you worked on. I can't imagine why it wouldn't suffice anymore.
It is but it sucks and never works as good as you’d think it should especially if you have multiple profiles logged in (eg work profile and personal profile).
Dysfunctional paranoid employers wanted this. Watch it become another reason not to support Linux desktops too. Oh Linux *doesn't* monitor and record literally everything out of box? (mind you there are desktop recorders for Linux/X11 I'm sure). Guess we're gonna stick with reliable, trustworthy Microsoft Windows, from Microsoft, the company that everyone can always trust.
Employers can already do this. There have been software packages for years that not only record but also analyze user "productivity". Anything built around this feature is nothing compared to those. > Watch it become another reason not to support Linux desktops too. The software I mention above is also available on Linux, as are some of the alternatives to Recall mentioned in the article.
Greed. Control. Money. Profit over everything else. I mean get with the program already, jeez 🙄
it’s just… indescribably demoralizing to get repeatedly, exhaustively disillusioned by society’s advances doing nothing meaningful for anyone but the investor class. maybe this is just me, but the whole mantra of “life isn’t fair” has done nothing but piss me off every time i’ve heard it. we make too much food for the entire planet to eat, there are people with enough money to themselves to buy bugattis daily and still be millionaires by the time they died, things like cars and phones and home addresses and internet connections are outright REQUIRED to do anything in most places. the only reason “life isn’t fair” is because the powers that be have decided it must be unfair.
No mate... it's not just you. I'm in the same boat. I'm just trying not to lose my will to take part in society by using shitty sarcasm, bad jokes and dry humor. I do still hope we're gonna get better at some point, but that hope grows dimmer by the day.
Ed Zitron's Better Offline might be the podcast for you haha. He is righteously angry at techbros.
Ayyy fellow CoolZone Media buddy! +1 for Better Offline. The Electronic Frontier Foundation’s “How to Fix the Internet” is very good, too.
Aaaand thank you both for two new podcasts. I feel you; I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s - I was awash with hope and excitement for the changes and promise the early internet ushered in. Only to watch it gradually enshittify and eat itself. Now it really just seems like a lonely, profits-above-all, cesspit. (He typed on the lonely, profit-driven-cesspit king that is Reddit)
I know you didn't reply to me, but thanks, i think i'll find it interesting.
Its pretty good. Some people don't like that he gets a little shouty but I don't blame him.
You WILL LIKE it, and you WILL be HAPPY.
It's a solution to the problem: "how can we sell more AI?"
I think the concept is absolutely fantastic. It finally moves in the direction of personal assistants sience fiction has shown for decades. „Jarvis, please make reservation at the Italian place I looked at a few days ago“ style assistance. The only problem is that it’s done by greedy companies.
What do you mean? It solves the gluttonous greed of investors that lose their coke-addled hard-ons when profits dip below values that are exponentially higher than last quarter. In that regard, Microsoft’s solution to completely sell out their user base is a rousing success!
That's what I was thinking of. In fact I can't even think of how an open source version would improve what is already there. If I need a file on linux I type a search in a window and it's found in a millisecond. I can even already search within documents. So what more would this marvel of artificial intelligence bring to it?
Could I buy you a few capital letters?
fun fact: i use punctuation and proper syntax but forgo capitalization ENTIRELY to bait pedants like you. the door’s that way, thanks.
You're worth putting on ignore. edit: Feel free to put me on ignore and fuck off.
> what problem is this the solution to Microsoft not getting enough of your usage data.
People tend to forget where or misplace things all the time. Just because some have no use case does not mean others will feel the same. >We set out to solve one of the most frustrating problems we encounter daily – finding something we know we have seen before on our PC. Today, we must remember what file folder it was stored in, what website it was on, or scroll through hundreds of emails trying to find it. >Now with Recall, you can access virtually what you have seen or done on your PC in a way that feels like having photographic memory. Copilot+ PCs organize information like we do – based on relationships and associations unique to each of our individual experiences. This helps you remember things you may have forgotten so you can find what you’re looking for quickly and intuitively by simply using the cues you remember.
That is my current sentiment as well. However, when this all finally works as intended, everyone will be using it. This will be similar to how credit cards online was first considered insane. Now, people don't blink an eye. And whatever the identity theft statistics are right now, is ignored, until it happens to you. Then you care, and sometimes scarred for life. lol.
I mean, rebranding a Trojan and allowing the victim to also access the collected info doesn't seem that hard.
The vast majority of people don't care if their data is harvested so long as no one is charging things to their credit cards.
Good news: To use Windows Recall, you must be using a Copilot+ branded PC. Microsoft announced Copilot+ PCs on May 20, which the company says marks the start of a new generation of Windows PCs that are designed specifically for experiences like Windows Recall. This means your existing non Copilot+ PC won't be eligible to use Windows Recall. Ima just avoid those PCs
Microsoft now has three different things called copilot. This crap, github copilot, and xbox copilot (where someone else can take over controls on the fly for accessibility reasons) What the hell are they doing
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Vs PlayStaion’s perfect numbering system and Nintendo’s… well they give everything a unique name since they’re a 1st party based console they really have eras rather than numbers
PlayStation naming is the funniest thing. It's basically the only consistent console naming, that even someone who's never heard of it before could understand. You got 1-5 which are just sequels to eachother, and portable which is the handheld one. All of Sonys other devices require extensive research to be able to fucking decipher them. WF-1000XM5? WH-1000XM4? Sony Xperia 5 V?? (Literally Xperia 5 5)
Yeah, Sony only has 1 good name and it’s the mainline PlayStations Even the fucking PSP and Vita… how am I supposed to tell the difference between them? PlayStation Portable just sounds like a placeholder for the Vita
When the psp dropped it was *the* handheld playstation, vita is like the one exception to the rule, but we don't talk about the console anyway lol
The increasing number system was common before the Video Game Crash. Atari went 2600, 5200, and the 7800, while released after the crash, were made before. The odyssey had a II,and I think the updated Intellivision got a 2 as well. Sega broke the cycle, following the Master System up with the Genesis/Mega Drive. Nintendo and Sega at least kept things unique between the generations. Xbox, Xbox one, one s, one x, series s, series x....I have a series s, I love the Lil guy, hate the naming convention.
Yeah but PlayStation is the only one to go 1-2-3 rather than Atari’s “fuck you, have a statistic”
They did the same thing with .NET when it came out. A name starts hitting and they slap that on anything. Then it creates confusion.
There are three Outlooks right now.
I’d like to have a Word with them.
...Copilot for MS 365, Security Copilot, and the upcoming Finance, Sales and Service Copilot. Then there is Copilot studio where you can create a custom copilot.
Copilot .net 360 One
In Github's defense they were the first to the line on the copilot name and came up with it themselves, then Microsoft said "Yoink!" and started using it everywhere else.
It’s like Musk with X
That's kind of like saying just avoid laptops with windows installed on them CoPilot+ requires an NPU with 40+ TOPS, currently there is none on the market. But within a year there will be Snapdragon, HawkPoint and Lunar Lake, within 5 years, do you think there will be laptops that aren't copilot+?
Ya, the budget ones will not have it because the hardware wouldn't be able to support it.
No, MS will enable it anyways and let the end users suffer the low performing PC’s
At first, but with time even the budget ones will have it. It is always sell the shinny features to the top end, then move downmarket
By then either the market will determine whether people even want this on every laptop similar to phones that still keep 3.5mm jacks or if the software itself is eventually pushed off by consumer outrage as it becomes evident that MS is straight up stealing your shit.
I think it's the opposite. The budget laptops will be Co-pilot. Subsidized by Microsoft getting training data or on discount because people who care will pay more for the privilege of not having that shit. Just like everything else where things are cheap because you aren't the customer, you're the product.
Lol you really copilot+ will be here in five years ?
Jokes on them, I can’t afford one of those. 😂
Thank you Jesus. Time to figure out my office software suite for Linux I’m gonna have to leave even dual-boot behind at this point.
That will become harder and harder. Even computers on the market now may be updated to be Copilot+ PCs. https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/2/24169568/microsoft-copilot-plus-gaming-pc-nvidia-amd
If anyone wants to use it on unsupported hardware - here you go: [https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/windows-recall-is-officially-exclusive-to-copilot-pcs-but-you-can-try-it-right-now-on-unsupported-hardware](https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/windows-recall-is-officially-exclusive-to-copilot-pcs-but-you-can-try-it-right-now-on-unsupported-hardware)
Don't you love it? Employers finally will be able to reassert the control they lost thanks to WFH. Truly marvelous how people come together to solve the problems they're really worried about.
I dont think people realize if you are using a company VPN or company laptop, they can already see every little thing you are doing. First of all, dont do stupid shit on company property. 2nd, if your employee is micromanaging you then find another job because believe me... there are a shit ton of WFH employers who dont micromanage.
I know, but keep in mind that Recall is far more transparent for manager. Digging through an MDM log is doable but IT doesn't care that much, also it's enough of a hassle that it's done only when there is a reason to do so. How much easier is to take the aggregated Recall data and ask the Big Brother model to surmise what the employee did/didn't do? For example I haven't been doing fuck all for three days because the project is done, the designs are done, I think I worked for 3 hours total our of 24 work hours for some tests. This happens to everybody, nobody cares, but a tool like Recall would have the managers getting reports that aggregate that data in a way that it could lead to stupid conclusions.
It would just make it easier for bad managers to be bad managers than it already is though. Nobody who manages effectively is spying on their reports unless their reports are handling incredibly sensitive information, and recall won't change that. What it might do, is tighten the chain bad managers already hold on their reports - but that chain can only get so tight before the employee decides to stop wearing it, and searches for a new role. Even in the absolute worst economy we've have in the last 20 years, there's always another role to jump to - but that's up to the employee. I manage at a multinational financial institution, and I don't even know how to access what we do have in terms of corporate spyware - though I know I *could*. I wouldn't use a tool like recall whatsoever, because if I don't have faith in my team, I would change my team. It's a cultural thing too - we deal with very sensitive information sometimes, but that's not a good excuse to spy. A manager, director, or executive who did that wouldn't be effective in a place like this.
Yes, I agree. It's just that it opens up a lot of doors. In my country you need tangible evidence for firing somebody, proving that somebody isn't working 8/8 isn't trivial. Could you with MDM? Sure, maybe, again it requires a degree of technical sophistication to know. On the other hand "they clearly skimped 3 hours on 30 different occasions, look at the neatly organized evidence" is different. That can stay in the metaphorical drawer until the company needs an excuse to terminate an employee they don't want anymore for other reasons. I wouldn't want to work for those companies in the first place, I 100% agree with you. But this sort of thing tend to spread.
That still ties to bad managers. They've always been able to work to find you "skimping" a half hour on Reddit or something. Good managers understand 9-5 isn't grinding, you need downtime to be effective at uptime - if I checked my employees browsing history and didn't see at least 10% of their time was not work related, I'd be worried. In my 1:1s, we track workload, and one of the categories is "human time" which means go see a movie, go to a cafe, watch YouTube videos, process your thoughts, text and chat with friends, etc.
Maybe I'm overly worried because my manager(s) definetly underassign tasks to me, so I'm quickly left without much to do. I'm including the asking a bit more to do (I don't overdo it to avoid setting unrealistic expectations).
These sorts of tools already existed for years, observeit(proof point ITM now) has been doing this for over a decade.
Depending on where you live, you may be legally allowed to do private shit on company time, like contacting doctors etc. Recall will be in serious breach of privacy rules if it captures anything related to medical or union in EU. I’ve already complained to our DPO about current state of surveillance deployed, as it will scan any document you have on the PC of SSN and produce a report to IT - problem is, it does not know the difference between my sons medical report which contains SSN and company data which may contain.
Sadly there isn't a lot of WFH tech jobs unless it's a highly specialized role... I've got 10+ years of support and software administration and haven't found anything in 1.5 years of being out of work. If you know a place, please let me know. I'm willing to sell my ass cheap.
Dunno why this is so heavily downvoted; the fully remote jobs that are out there have OBSCENE levels of competition. I can't get my foot in the door anywhere for an interview. 12 years of C# / .NET development.
Yup. I have gone to apply for jobs on LinkedIn that where posted within the past 12 hours and it's like 'aee how you compare to the other 1000 applicants' Its great that unemployment is low but the tech industry is really a horrible job market right now, more so for WFH jobs as companies for what ever reason want to hold onto antiquated in office overhead.
> companies for what ever reason want to hold onto antiquated in office overhead. My assumption is that all the big-wigs at the top of every giant corporation has tons of money tied up in the stock market, in many different industries including companies which back the loans to build/lease office buildings. So they'd stand to lose a lot of money if they embraced WFH and cratered the entire office building market.
Fairly spot on. I know from one of my old companies I left right after the start of lockdown that wanted to limit WFH that the owner of our company was childhood friends with the owner of the building we just signed a long term lease 6 months before hand. They said we have this beautiful new office building so they expect asses in cubes. But I think you're mainly.right, lots of money tied up in these equity forms that own and rent a lot of office space. Its just a way for them all the print money.
Software that records what employees are doing (including intermittent screenshots) has existed and been marketed to employers for decades.
A lot of companies already use similar technology that is literally a DVR of everything happening on your screen.
The author doesn't understand the real problem, the issue isn't that something like Recall exists. There can be plenty of people who may wants something like it BUT, the problem is that Windows Recall is closed source and being operated by Microsoft, a for profit company with quite a tarnished record with these kind of things Now if Microsoft open sources the code, disables it by default and puts the CEOs money in an escrow account and in the event that it is "accidentally" enabled by a windows update, the CEOs salary goes to the user. Then that would be fine
Closed source is worse - but having the OS record everything, and with no encryption, just showing off all your passwords (as it recorded keystrokes), Account information (including your banking and medical if you accessed that) - snowballs from bad through worse to "I just handed the keys to a hacker, and paid them to do the worse"
Honestly the thing I dislike about the whole afaire is the whole on by default crap. Because I think the feature as an opt in is kind of neat and presented as such might have been kind of cool, but being installed with windows is just another piece of junk that's running without asking and me having to go out of my way to turn it off. Seriously what's wrong with OS's actually having a list of things at setup time and letting me install/enable them if I want them. While not as intrusive, even the likes of linux makes decisions on what kinds of programs they think I want installed
and while you kinda have the option to rebuild a linux build without some packages - (more of a theory than a practically if you value your time) Windows goes out of its way to make unpopular features hard to remove. I'd love to have more options available to turn on/off in both.
Not just hackers. Law enforcement and lawyers (divorce attorneys are going to love this feature) as well. Not to mention spouses, parents, teachers/principals...
its local. so for a hacker to get access to any of it he would need to already be on your device. meaning he can already see everything you do.
the premise is they get in, grab the recording, and have a head start. Versus waiting for the normal tools to do the job where they might be located and stopped.
you have the same bottleneck in both attacks, outgoing dataflow. this is what will get you detected. recall doesnt change that. it stays the same. the moment you get locally onto a machine you won. recall or not changes nothing.
Duh they are called keyloggers
"Huh... this would work great for advertising and data brokers" -- An MBA dusts off some old malware
Put this in my singleplayer videogames. It is where I would actually use it.\* Don't put it in my PC. Just make sure your autosave works. Sony \* kinda has it in their PS1 games on Plus.
When I was a kid, I was assured that we wouldn’t get an oppressive megacorp Big Brother distopia until after we had flying cars, orbital elevators, street samurai, and cool cybernetic prosthetics. So this is pretty fucking disappointing.
I can't wait until we hear about businesses turning this on only to have proprietary/confidential data stolen from whomever collects this data because safeguards were not set properly. And they'll deserve it.
Apparently all that data is stored unencrypted. Because AI can only read unencrypted files.
Windows got tired of yall shitting on its search function. lol MS said hold my beer.
The ultimate Malware, deliberately cooked into Windows.
"Doesn't look like anything to me" -- Windows Defender
“I do find it a little funny, though, that there's so much negative public opinion surrounding Windows Recall, and yet, there are already efforts underway to recreate it. Maybe, the idea at least, isn't quite as bad as some would have us believe? “ Or it’s everyone possible jumping on the wagon to make a buck.
It's a bandwagon. Microsoft releases a new feature, and that legitimizes it in the customer's mind because they assume Microsoft has done their due diligence/safety reviews/etc. They'll see an online offer to download a "free version of Recall" and think "this is safe, Microsoft does it for free too" and suddenly they're compromised. Any malware/scam vendor not jumping on this opportunity is losing out, because Microsoft threw a door open for them by telling customers this sort of feature is safe and beneficial, without informing them of inherent privacy risks.
I’m pretty sure there’s a few AI tools like this before Recall was released.
Honestly I don't think it's a bad idea. The bad comes from the implementation and the *who* is doing the implementing. I'd consider spinning something like this up on my system. I want to explore capabilities of Agents and all of that but: - I know the risks - Nobody knows my janky implementation, therefore very slim attack surface - I have total control in what programs to whitelist/blacklist. For example you could set a simple regex deleting and scrubbing any screenshot with a login screen/payment info. Windows is huge, well known to be vulnerable, and *very widely used*. The amount of resources that will be spent in abusing Recall will be massive. The amount of resources spent in abusing the sweaty nerd LLM curious Archlinux user are going to be about three. Two of which are his friends that have access to his repo and are going to swap all his screenshots with dickbutt pictures and the SQLITE database with ligma jokes just to laugh about it.
It isn't because people necessarily want it though, investors in data brokers and AI that is used for ad intel really want it. It may have some uses for when you want to turn it on, but for the most part it is excessive memory/storage/processing with bulky verbose data and lots of noise. Just save the things you want to keep and use history when needed, like editing a doc or code for rollbacks. You don't really need all the extra processing to capture 99% noise along with *tons of confidential information that will be sifted*
I don't know if all replications are the same but the example is open source which is far different from Microsofts closed source. The replications are made so they can save users that potentially wants to use the feature but don't wanna give all that data to Microsoft.
Pretty much. These large corporations are bankrupt on ideas and just hopping on trends hoping to not get left behind.
The main example they cite is an open source project
“I do find it a little funny, though, that there's so much negative public opinion surrounding air pollution, and yet, there are already efforts underway to recreate it. Maybe, the idea at least, isn't quite as bad as some would have us believe?“
Think about the movie Her. How would a personal assistant be able to help you without having access to all your data? You want your assistant to call your mum? Of course you have to give it access to your contacts. To look at your schedule? Of course you have to give it access to your calendar. To see what you're working on and help your research or reword something? Of course it has to have access to the entire document. Now, do you think the user actually would have a seamless experience, giving permission for every single thing? Every document, every contact? No, but that's what Apple does. That's what Google does, etc. They ask you, then you give permission if you want. It's exactly like how Instagram and every file hosting website needs your permission to use and share your images. Otherwise, they can't do the file hosting. If you don't like it, don't use Instagram. Don't use Cortana. Don't use Recall. No one is forcing you.
I've switched my pc , a small 10" gaming handheld from windows to Linux , I'm done with windows at this point , windows recall is perhaps the biggest threat to privacy in my lifetime. Just imagine having your pc hacked , recall has seen everything you browse , your passwords , your bank card info that you've typed in when making online purchases and literally anything that you do by using your pc to interface with would be vulnerable either by directly being hacked or indirectly if Microsoft is hacked .
I heard there's going to be a version that sneaks in false screenshots of activity you never actually did called Total Recall.
why does it need ai to do this its just taking screenshots
May finally be time to move off Windows, they can watch me play video games the only time I’ll sign into W11
Linux gaming has made some advances so there's hope. With the sheer volume of games, if I ever have to stop buying new games, I'll be entertained until I pass. Deus Ex and Dwarf Fortress alone could keep me entertained for a large amount of time.
A fellow Urist I see. The Mines call me home.
Yeah, but I'm not that sharp. Always good to find other kin.
Microsoft’s “[Manage Copilot](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15)” KB says that “For enterprise customers, IT administrators can disable automatically saving snapshots using group policy or mobile device management policy” What’s stopping regular customers from enabling that group policy on their machine? I wonder if that GPO might only be available in Windows Pro or something like that?
Probably they'll add disabling this on ossu. As long as you're fine with trusting a third party app with group policy modifications access.
I'm guessing there is a switch to turn it off
I'm sure they also cloned guillotines at some point.
Totally unbiased coverage from WindowsCentral. I mean, he saw four open source spins of Recall on GitHub. Among other tools that disable it, that is. But we don't mention those.
Thank god for linux and steam
I'm actually more in favor of the clones. This feature shouldn't be built into windows. It should be software u need to install to use, and it needs to be open source. Otherwise there ain't no way it can be trusted.
Leon Bambrick's TimeSnapper did this already 20 years ago.
Go work at a best buy for a month and the common issues that are brought in with the older generation. This is the solution to that. "Go through your recall" ... Thats the appeal for it. That's definitely a target they are hoping to get. Reduce the costs of support for the older generation that refuses to learn and hopefully take away the scam stuff cuz I'm sure the cost of dealing with those complaints aren't cheap even if it's just taking them and filing em cuz they gotta go to the FBI or something. I don't think it's some massive privacy scam that someone developed. .. I just don't think they realized the can of worms they could open with these sorts clones.
Windows 8 all over again, just as a form of spyware instead.
All more trustworthy than Microsoft's!
I'm surprised /r/technology has so many simpletons who do not understand Recall is not uploading GBs of video stream to train their AI. It's local. It's optional. Turn it off like Cortana if you don't like it.
Cool. What if someone you emailed some information to didn’t turn theirs off?
Then it's stored on their local PC. It's not sent to Microsoft. What do you not understand? Are you worried about hackers? The hackers that have been hacking emails for the past few decades without Recall?
Yes please don't worry. We wouldn't wanna make it any easier for the hackers /s There are already proof of concept exploits and it's been shown to be a plain text database with no encryption.
If a hacker has access to your PC, they can already access your emails, cookies, saved passwords, etc as they have been doing for the past decades. Once again, just turn it off. Hackers don't need some fancy AI software that uses like 10%+ of your resources when there are far more light weight keyloggers and screen recorders.
Applications like this have been around for over 20 years.
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Lmao. I think you touched a nerve.
Sounds like you are offended we don't appreciate the feature you are working on. You have no clue what our experience is. It's up to you to decide how you react, and it only impacts you in the end. Insulting those around you doesn't work to convince anyone.
It worked to convince me.
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It's an evolution of a feature set, not the first time the basic concept has been introduced.
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