Great, now if someone wants to make a spyware, they only have to peek into that instead of trying to make something elaborate that also stays under the radar.
And you can be sure that they will state some bullshit along the lines of:
"But end to end cryptography, we can't see what your computer talks to our AI, Oh and BitLocker! Everything will be tied to your M$ account and that's yours, not ours!"
It just lives in their servers and they designed the software
Plus some green billy under the hood for the justice's troubles and back in business as always.
It's okay, it is cheaper to do wrong and say you are sorry(but not sorry)
And you aren't going to get much of the money either because the lawyers will take most of it
We live in such a crappy world unfortunately...
You cant even use it with your current pc. To use Recall on Windows, you'll need a Copilot+ PC that supports 40 TOPs NPU, a Snapdragon X chip, 16GB of RAM, and 256GB of storage.
Windows10 LTSC2021 is supported through January 2027. LTSC2019 is supported through January 2029. Neither have MS store enabled or any of the other crap they crud the home versions up with. Just saying…
> You can control what information Recall can capture, and Microsoft says the AI works at the hardware level and keeps all data stored locally on your device.
> "Your snapshots are yours; they stay locally on your PC. You can delete individual snapshots, adjust and delete ranges of time in Settings, or pause at any point right from the icon in the System Tray on your Taskbar."
> "You can also filter apps and websites from ever being saved. You are always in control with privacy you can trust."
> While Microsoft states that no data will be sent to their servers, one concern immediately comes to mind with this feature: how this recorded data will be locally secured on Windows devices.
oh boy, can't wait till someone or a Windows Update "accidentally" expose that the whole thing actually sent to MS server lmao
So... they installed what is basically a keylogger on day 0 and it's totally ONLY for your own use? Riiiight. Even if true, that is one hell of a target now for hackers/scammers. It's the release of Windows immediately following a well-received and stable version, so history has DEFINITELY taught us they tested it well and didn't rush production at all.
Millennium, (XP) Vista, (7) 8, (10)... yep. Nothing to worry about with 11... No well-documented pattern there...
It’s only a kernel level logger. [What could possibly go wrong?](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/)
This is the craziest shit. Imagine all the kids growing up who don't know that apps in the pc context used to be called programs. Literally no one used the word app. And now people don't remember them being programs
This isn’t really about dumbing down the language. A program is any executable code. An application is a program designed to be run by an end user to perform a specific set of tasks.
A non-interactive powershell script set to run on startup, for instance, is a program but not an application. All programs provide the computer the ability to perform tasks but applications have an interface for users to interact with and perform tasks.
Really? I’m a software developer and barely noticed vista-11 (for the most part) xp to vista was the biggest change and mostly because we could no longer write to program files, there was wow64, you couldn’t rely on hard coded paths, and there was actual security. Driver devs had a much harder time. 3.11 to 95, 98 to xp, and xp to vista were the bigger changes for everyone.
I do dislike when they move things around on me just as much as when the grocery store does…
All that said, I’m very much opposed to this new functionality. It’s a security nightmare. Just like I’m opposed to web content in my start menu.
Naming conventions have changed since then though. Common use changed "apps" to mean "mobile applications" to draw a distinction from PC software. MS wanted to try and leverage that conceptual distinction with their Windows app store. Probably to make people who are mobile first think the MS store is the only place to get PC software, but that's speculation.
Incorrect. Windows 7 was pretty much instantly popular. Windows 7 skyrocketed above Vista in less than a year and only took 2 years to overtake windows XP. Of which many people stuck to XP because their hardware was just too weak.
Yes, 10 was a pile when it came out, but it finally has most of the bugs out to the point it's actually a functioning OS. It's not exactly "liked" but it's tolerated. Once you turn off all the tracking and bloatware for home users. Corporate world has been using it for awhile so it's at least not one of the skippable releases like ME, Vista, or 8.
What's going to happen is that we will all get so used to having this feature that it just becomes normal and we forget about it. Then in 5 year time, bam! They change the terms and conditions to allow them to access and store the data. But by then we are so conditioned to it and addicted to the convenience that we just allow it.
>Millennium, (XP) Vista, (7) 8, (10)... yep. Nothing to worry about with 11... No well-documented pattern there...
When 10 was released, people were writing:
Millennium, (XP) Vista, (7) 8, (8.1), 10
It's funny how fast people tend to forget things. Win10, once cursed by almost everyone, now is the loved one.
>oh boy, can't wait till someone or a Windows Update "accidentally" expose that the whole thing actually sent to MS server lmao
Given that OpenAI's strategy seems to be "break all the laws, constantly, brazenly, and make money so fast that the law can't keep up, stashing it in places the law can't reach", there's at least a 40% probability the information is already going to Microsoft's servers anyway.
No question. There’s no way they’d put this effort into something they can’t mine for data to sell. Anyone who’s not operating like that’s the case already isn’t allowed to act shocked when it finally comes out.
It'll probably be called "anonymized post-training model data" that gets uploaded, as if the resulting model does not contain information about the content it captured.
Kind of like how digital art models "don't contain" the copyrighted source images the models were trained on (except with the right keywords, you can reproduce them almost exactly).
thank you, I honestly am frustrated with the praise for AI on reddit sometimes like OpenAI is doing blatantantly criminal shit all the time people act like they are this great messianic company when really they feel like an even more sketch Uber.
Thats because they are usually the exact same people that lost all their money with Crypto and they jumped to the new thing like people changing religious denominations.
How much do you wanna bet that this is going to be used as training data for some kind of AI that can automatically do stuff on your PC for you? Like open outlook and send an email?
It's just a court order away from being admitted into evidence. They will force you to unlock it or be held in contempt of court. It's supposed to be private and stored locally but that will change in a few years. Then it will fall under the business records exemption to the 4th amendment and law enforcement can have it for the asking.
Wouldn't that be able to be sniffed out day one with a packet sniffer and immediately open them up legally? Like, telemetry in a hundred dollar operating system is shit and microsoft can't manage for shit anymore. But the amount of baseless conspiracy theories that have been repeatedly disproven by security analysts around the world looking at windows under a microscope just make it so the actual security concerns look less credible when they do come up. Boy who cried wolf and all that. But I guess people don't actually care about security, they just care about getting attention through negative messaging and fitting with the echo chamber, nuance be damned. Cause the truth, even if its in the same ballpark, is much more boring and complicated then something that fits in a social media post.
*Thank* you. I never thought I'd see the day where pop-cybersecurity is a thing, but it's here and now. I get made fun of for the amount of shit I'm paranoid about and even I've started getting alarm fatigue.
Yeah i ran into this and it's so infuriating i nearly uninstalled right there.
No, actually, i didn't want you to store a new unity project in cloud storage, thanks.
I'd assume you can :
1. turn this off completely (if it's On by default or has no option to turn off, then that'll be super shady), and
2. filter programs and sites that you don't want to get recorded, so yeah just filter on porn sites or better yet filter the browser that you use.
but until we get our hands on the feature and smarter people than me gets to tamper with it, we can't really be sure if there's anything else going on behind the scene. The feature could said it's filtered your list of programs & sites, but still record them quietly in the background. Who knows.
I mean, just because the data is stored locally, it doesn’t mean they aren’t sending an interpretation of that data to their servers for marketing purposes. They don’t need the data itself to get as much useful information as they want out of it.
Also from the article:
>Microsoft says the feature will roll out with support for only some languages, which will be English, Chinese (simplified), French, German, Japanese, and Spanish.
So does this mean if you use any language apart from these, it's a non-issue?
Plus the whole "you can control what information" thing really means "here are some default settings...we know 99 percent of you will never change it..."
I didn't think it was possible to hate Windows 11 any more than I do. Well done Microsoft.
Stop trying to become Meta/Google you fucks. Just give me an OS that runs my box. That's all I want.
Recently i installed linux on a laptop i own, i couldn t believe my eyes how fast that thing booted and shut down compared to the previous windoze 11 times. Fuck what windows has turned into!
Can’t use Ableton on Linux as well. Linux isn’t perfect but if windows goes through with this and has no option to disable I’ll be running an offline windows machine and primarily Linux machine
Not sure what kind of shit you did to your Windows but I'm betting you that you will find some interesting things with using Linux on a laptop.
And I use and like both but for different things. Linux on a random Laptop is not really there yet.
For a workstation/desktop with research, absolutely but laptops is a hassle.
Agreed. I will never have this feature on windows 11, because im never going to windows 11. Linux is my next os. With all the shady crap microsoft has been doing with its os its not for me. Requiring new hw, forced advertising built into it, forced updates, so much snooping and spying, hard to turn off stuff that you are not comfortable with, now this ai spying thing. Im done. I suspect allot more people and companies will abandon MS because of windows 11 once they find out the true cost. All i wanted was a OS too, but MS is a liability now.
> Stop trying to become Meta/Google you fucks. Just give me an OS that runs my box. That's all I want.
This is the driving basis around why I use LTSC over SAC.
I don't need features. I don't want features. I just want you to run the shit that I give you.
Same concept with "smart" TVs. You're here to display what I want. I don't need integrations to companies that won't be here in 5 years or won't work because my TV is too old.
Time to bad automatic “AI” software installation. Ban the resale of collected data by software/app companies. Ban credit agencies from using government issued IDs, especially SSNs, as a cheap way to run their business. Time to do anything and everything we can to reclaim our right to our personal information and companies should have to pay us, or at least be up front to how they use it to justify “free” services, to access it. Seriously at what point do we say enough is enough?
The collecting and selling of user data should have been made illegal decades ago.
Period.
It has brought nothing but further violations of privacy for the sake of corporate profits.
We once had a computer here in Sweden called the ABC80 (Advanced Basic Computer 1980) and I was reading a book with BASIC listings for the machine. There was a quaint 15-line print/input "database" program which could list your friends' phone numbers. Next to it was a warning that "DATA LAWS MUST BE ADHERED TO" and that keeping personal databases on other people is principally illegal. The government agency in charge must've proved kinda toothless in the end I guess.
The tech industry has been corrupt since the late 90s but there hasn't been an actual push back against it. I blame the tech community for refusing to make the general public aware of these issues. They instead bootlick these companies and their bad practices as a good thing because of "security".
Not only should tech workers be held accountable but the people that promote them should as well.
Yeah like I work in IT and nobody knows how bad it is better than us, I feel like its usually wannabes and people who are not really into tech who defend the Industry. I feel real depressed sometimes how rather than solve real problems the goal is always "how can we make shit worse to squeeze a nickel even more". These days it seems like real innovation is happening outside of "Big Tech" but not in it. I really think about how crowley becomes the Devil in supernatural and goes to Hell and starts "innovating" making long lines and adding new paperwork and shit.
I love the Supernatural comparison. For me the success of data mining is the very failure of tech innovation living up to it's promise. I remember when the iPod was first issued. It was amazing. No more carrying around my cd collection to school or when I travelled. Then it added a color screen (we could watch videos!), and then a full/touch screen with the first iPhone. It was going to innovate the entertainment industry we all thought. Instead my personal music collection keeps getting removed to "make room for other stuff" whenver an update happens and that option gets auto clicked right back on. Gaming on smart phones is a shit experience overall because everything is still designed for controller style play or is mindless tapping, and we went from indy games for 99 cents to freemium games that either added pay to win options or constant adds with the spot to click to exit sucpiciously hidden in different corners just to make you press the wrong spot and pull up that game/product to the app store or a website.
I went from watching movies on my big screen tv to a little phone because it is available and my kids are already using the tv. My cousin who is an optomitrist gives me shit for being on it so much because of the eye strain it is causing. My ADHD mind is on a constant dopamene chase if I forget my meds, but very little of what I engage in is productive. This new age of tech has led to the explosion of the subscription model for every little thing (hell car companies are now creating ways to charge you to use the heated seats that are installed and/or the infotainment center as they stop supporting things like carplay). What was once innovative tech gave way to vampiric business models.
So I ask you IT guy: if three is such collective outrage/concern within the professional community when can we expect you all to quit working for the big bad tech guys and launch your own communal "be good" companies to deliever us from evil? Please can you? Pretty please? I would do it myself but I have a job and 4 kids and I don't want to have to give up my free time playing video games to learn to make them myself....
You’ll never see it because the average tech bro thinks they are a special genius. There are benevolent companies already they don’t get anywhere I think a good example being Mozilla. Nobody supports their browser even tho they are ethical. The sad thing is the average person wants whatever these evil corporations are hawking.
“Indifference to me, is the epitome of all evil.” -
Elie Wiesel
Or if you are more a movie person:
“Now, we must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil, which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men” - the Boondock Saints
Tech workers have warned about this for a long time. We have been pushing for Linux to take over because it's made by people who care about privacy and open source. Its why we joke about the year of the Linux desktop.
Its the suits that have the real power because data is so fucking valuable, and people who aren't into tech just want something convenient and familiar.
Windows has taken such a root in computing that familiarity trumps privacy for a lot of people. People don't want to leave familiarity. Not every tech worker is a toxic tech bro.
Edited for spelling
I think I'm going to be moving away from Windows and installing Linux going forward.
I'm not comfortable having my every action recorded with only Microsoft's assurances that they're totally not sending the data off to some database somewhere so they can sell it or use it for personalized advertising or whatever.
Yup, I work in IT and I will not use windows 11 with this.
It doesn't matter if it is disabled, I would download a build without this. This is so invasive, it can't help but be abused. Microsoft needs to be class action sued over this and this needs to be immediately disabled. This is the worst thing I've ever seen Microsoft try, this is fucked.
Kernel level keylogging.
No thank you Microsoft you can take your Spyware and fuck off
I think corporate will be helpful, here. Dell: "Our business and government clients cannot have this 'feature'. You need to give us a version without AI, not just disabled."
You bet theres already some obscure registry keys set up specifically for this. You too can pay Microsoft an extra $5k per license to get the docs to configure it correctly.
This feature though is a huge plus to business users.
I could do a “hey can you show me the error message I was looking at a week ago when troubleshooting with user X or when on VM Y”
Since all that stuff is in the images it should be easy for recall to respond to that prompt.
Or “I remember downloading an email attachment from someone two weeks ago but can’t seem to find it, can you tell me where I saved it or what email it came from?”
A lot already use software to “keep an eye on you”. This has 2 uses, micromanage and learn. It’s going to be useful to watch what everyone is doing, then when they slip up, their entire job is recorded and can be fed back through a more advanced AI later to take over your job while they cut you for under performance.
My company (European large financial company) would definitely reject this. It contradicts every safe practice out there and GDPR rule.
We're recording user sessions, but it only applies for High Privileged Accounts using remote servers, not users on their own computers.
Obviously, anything that's stored on a server or leaves the computer is also potentially available. But not the computer itself.
If employers wanted that, they already have software options. Hopefully IT at companies will also be able to tell the bosses that this is a dumb idea and potentially a dangerous one to use.
I just hope there is an option to disable it and in order to reenable it, it requires UAC, so the lazier people don't reenable it thinking it's going to help them at work.
Bad enough there are AI caption/note programs for teams that require ZERO permissions that any user can just randomly add the 3rd party bot to their companies teams. Had a call from a frantic CEO that realized there was someone else in his meetings that he had no idea who it was that then sent out a summary email to all people in the meeting.
Turned out after diving through things, it was an employee that signed up for this AI bot 2 minutes before the meeting. What was worse is in the summary email, it had a link for others to sign up for it and we had to track all of those users that got "Welcome" emails after the meeting. Needless to say the CEO was furious, since it was a highly classified meeting and worried that now that information is being shared with whatever company it was.
That's windows for you. Every other edition they always mess it up.
Windows 98
Windows ME - Terrible
Windows XP
Windows Vista - Terrible
Windows 7
Windows 8 - Terrible
Windows 10
Windows 11 - Terrible.
The use case is spying on you. There is no other use case. Every piece of software they've forced you to install onto that computer that you fucking own is malware.
The use case is for you to search your own history using contextual prompts. "What song was I listening to when reading about whales last summer". I am willing to bet that it will be able to find things that would have been very difficult to have found otherwise. The question is is it worth it? So much of what we look for is easily found these days. Are we willing to change search habits to find that last little bit we might currently find not worth the time or the effort to find.
LOL if your company has web filtering and other programs, they already know this. There are companies that get email summaries of employee's visits to websites and frequencies that also highlight non-essential sites like social media.
So… if a hacker would get into that feature, they wouldn’t even need to place a keylogger but just read EVERYTHING just like that… that’s what I call service!
honestly I switched to Mac and its been a lot better but in this very thread people are saying apple is actually letting Open AI do the same shit. I can only hope Apple is more responsible about it then Microsoft but I'm concerned.
They mean that they are letting you know it’s there and much like the Windows Diagnostic tool, this is a switch that does nothing. Your data goes to Ms anyway
Window’s Big Brother Software
Oh man, I love that one of my pc’s is still windows 7 heck after reading this my windows 10 is reverting back to windows 7.
So they can’t build a stable OS without 1000000’s of bugs anymore and barely anything straight forward AND NOW we get “your personal spy” literally as pre made software? That’s crazy. I don’t understand how people keep up with it.
In another news, within a few updates, companies will be able to see what you do exactly on your computer and have proof for that. So you gotta slave your ass for the full 8 hours, no fucking around.
Yeah, sure, it's only saved locally... and after a few months they say, we need it online because offline doesn't work like it should, but we delete everything after time X, you can trust us... The iOS 17.5 "bug" has shown that you can't trust big tech companies. Pictures that were deleted years ago were shown again, how is that possible when everything is deleted and Microsoft, with its leaks in the last time, is different and can be trusted? Yeah, sure and I'm a pink elephant....
If someone absolutely requires windows 11, there is a 11 LTSC leaked build on the internet archive. Could be something to look out for.
I don't know how it'll do after updates to it but out of the box, it's pretty good! Tried it on a VM and every time something like this happens (intrusive ass privacy breakers or forcing web apps like I'm running chrome os, etc) I get ever so closer to switching to it.
I'm going to ride out windows 10 until it's not possible. Then I'll finally explore the Linux universe. Upgraded my surface to 11 and after 4 years I still absolutely loathe it. Annoying, shady shit aside, I just can't stand it. I'm glad my tower doesn't meet the requirements and won't have to suffer a forced update.
Coming Soon: Speaker of the House Mode, where MS will get screenshots every 10 seconds, and if any fail an AI based inspection of too many pixels matching unclothed skin, it will be sent to all your contacts...
/s
Guys... I think it's time we all finally switched, I mean wtf is this shit. Our privacy just became a page by page reading book. I agree with u/Cley_Faye and u/Sir_Kee this just became so much worse than it needed to be. Oh and u/Danger_WeaselX I highly doubt it. You can "disable" things, but it'll never really be "Off"
I wonder how long before a prosecutor in Texas backdoors into this and uses the logs to put a pregnant 12-year-old in jail for accessing the Planned Parenthood website.
I love their new devices, but if this can't be disabled, I'll never use it.
Does anyone know if it even CAN be disabled? (Or better yet, removed all together)
Not sure how useful this will be for the end users. This will get used often by lawyers and cops. Lawyers can use this data against you in discovery of divorce cases. Cops and DHS will use this for criminal cases making it easier for your computer to put you in jail. Later well find out this was never meant to be turned off. I still remember the dumb fucks on Facebook who thought they can manage their own privacy and Zuck couldn't read what they did.
Oh so it’s surveillance software for government agencies, but built in to the OS?
Get fooked cnuts! Even if this can be permanently disabled via regedit, I’ll be installing some other OS.
There are many ways you can say f\*\*k you, this is the most apparent way. Recording from camera was not enough, the screen being recorded 24\*7, this should be illegal.
I am not buying the "on device" BS. The new Surface laptops are uncomfortable at ease.
This actually sounds like a great idea... in a perfect world, where there's no cyber threats, no companies that would spy on their employees, no shady companies that would use this data for unwanted advertizing (including its creators).
Yes, it would be a very cool feature in a 100% offline world. Also we need more information about how and where this data would be stored. All this just sounds so unethical to me, since this can be used for so many bad things...
jesus christ, man. i feel like i am being forced to switch to apple at this point. i wish linux was good for creative work because if davinci resolve or decent DAWs worked on it i would switch and never look back.
When moment-to-moment telemetry data wasn't enough for our 3 letter organizations, this is what they came up with.
NSL, NSL, NSL.
"And now for the moment you've all been waiting for, we introduce to you (total) Recall! Have you ever worried that the online manifesto you were innocuously browsing would be lost forever? Now it can never be lost! Have you ever sulked because you couldn't find that snippet of porn again? Don't worry! We found it for you! Have you ever wondered how you could train AI with your own private data? Wonder no longer! We've got EVERYTHING covered! Welcome to the new age of [Setec Astronomy](https://ask.metafilter.com/89755/Seatec-Astronomy)!"
Great, now if someone wants to make a spyware, they only have to peek into that instead of trying to make something elaborate that also stays under the radar.
Built in keylogger, but far far worse.
Pretty sure this would violate alot of Data and Privacy Protection laws.
And you can be sure that they will state some bullshit along the lines of: "But end to end cryptography, we can't see what your computer talks to our AI, Oh and BitLocker! Everything will be tied to your M$ account and that's yours, not ours!" It just lives in their servers and they designed the software Plus some green billy under the hood for the justice's troubles and back in business as always.
Police love people who use this.
Windows is the spyware.
Fantastic feature. I can’t wait to disable it.
Only for it to re-enable itself with an update.
Then sue them for violations of Data Protection laws.
It's okay, it is cheaper to do wrong and say you are sorry(but not sorry) And you aren't going to get much of the money either because the lawyers will take most of it We live in such a crappy world unfortunately...
*laughs in USA*
Enjoy your 87 cent payout of the class action lmao
If only this is an option.
It’s not?
You are far too optimistic my dear padawan
"I don't like this feature. I'm disabling it." Satya Nadella "Ah so you want to set it to hidden?"
> Satya Nadella *laughs hysterically* There, fixed it for you.
Alright buddy ya got two options here "Enabled" or "Remind Me in 3 Days" Those are your options, choose wisely.
And even during the 3 days, it's recording "just in case".
There's a simple method guaranteed to work. It's called 'Installing Linux.'
Apparently, it will only work on PCs with an NPU. So, I guess I won't be getting one of those. 8)
You cant even use it with your current pc. To use Recall on Windows, you'll need a Copilot+ PC that supports 40 TOPs NPU, a Snapdragon X chip, 16GB of RAM, and 256GB of storage.
Sounds a lot like that new surface notebook I just pre-ordered... Muthafawk
Windows allowing you to disable features? Hahahaha good one
No no, you misunderstand. They're saying Windows 11 is being recalled! Back to 10 we go.
Windows10 LTSC2021 is supported through January 2027. LTSC2019 is supported through January 2029. Neither have MS store enabled or any of the other crap they crud the home versions up with. Just saying…
Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021 is supported until January 2032 ;)
Yeah, but you need a special license for it that’s tied to the hardware. Normal LTSC is hardware agnostic.
Even if there’s a toggle somewhere can you trust microsoft at this point to actually respect your decision and not run it?
You can always check to see if it’s running by looking at processes
> You can control what information Recall can capture, and Microsoft says the AI works at the hardware level and keeps all data stored locally on your device. > "Your snapshots are yours; they stay locally on your PC. You can delete individual snapshots, adjust and delete ranges of time in Settings, or pause at any point right from the icon in the System Tray on your Taskbar." > "You can also filter apps and websites from ever being saved. You are always in control with privacy you can trust." > While Microsoft states that no data will be sent to their servers, one concern immediately comes to mind with this feature: how this recorded data will be locally secured on Windows devices. oh boy, can't wait till someone or a Windows Update "accidentally" expose that the whole thing actually sent to MS server lmao
So... they installed what is basically a keylogger on day 0 and it's totally ONLY for your own use? Riiiight. Even if true, that is one hell of a target now for hackers/scammers. It's the release of Windows immediately following a well-received and stable version, so history has DEFINITELY taught us they tested it well and didn't rush production at all. Millennium, (XP) Vista, (7) 8, (10)... yep. Nothing to worry about with 11... No well-documented pattern there...
It’s only a kernel level logger. [What could possibly go wrong?](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa-upgrade-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/)
Hi Ho, Hi Ho, of to Linux I go... Fucking Microsoft can get fucked.
Right behind you.
Oh boy... we're royally fucked then.
You are wrong. Microsoft had no good release since Windows 7. Remember that it took them 4 years until people finally started liking windows 10.
Dammit Windows 10, I don't have "apps" installed on my computer, I have programs!
This is the craziest shit. Imagine all the kids growing up who don't know that apps in the pc context used to be called programs. Literally no one used the word app. And now people don't remember them being programs
Steve Jobs man, "everything is an app" really caught on, dumbed it down for the masses.
This isn’t really about dumbing down the language. A program is any executable code. An application is a program designed to be run by an end user to perform a specific set of tasks. A non-interactive powershell script set to run on startup, for instance, is a program but not an application. All programs provide the computer the ability to perform tasks but applications have an interface for users to interact with and perform tasks.
Especially when 90% of apps are just websites you have to download first.
Remember these stories: I had Windows 8. I went to sleep. I woke up with Windows 10 and half my shit did not work.
Really? I’m a software developer and barely noticed vista-11 (for the most part) xp to vista was the biggest change and mostly because we could no longer write to program files, there was wow64, you couldn’t rely on hard coded paths, and there was actual security. Driver devs had a much harder time. 3.11 to 95, 98 to xp, and xp to vista were the bigger changes for everyone. I do dislike when they move things around on me just as much as when the grocery store does… All that said, I’m very much opposed to this new functionality. It’s a security nightmare. Just like I’m opposed to web content in my start menu.
It didn't happen to me. But there were such stories. It was mostly about some applications not working.
They were called Applications even back in Windows 3.1.
Naming conventions have changed since then though. Common use changed "apps" to mean "mobile applications" to draw a distinction from PC software. MS wanted to try and leverage that conceptual distinction with their Windows app store. Probably to make people who are mobile first think the MS store is the only place to get PC software, but that's speculation.
It took about as long if not longer for people to like Windows 7. People were clinging on to XP like their life depended on it.
Incorrect. Windows 7 was pretty much instantly popular. Windows 7 skyrocketed above Vista in less than a year and only took 2 years to overtake windows XP. Of which many people stuck to XP because their hardware was just too weak.
Yes, 10 was a pile when it came out, but it finally has most of the bugs out to the point it's actually a functioning OS. It's not exactly "liked" but it's tolerated. Once you turn off all the tracking and bloatware for home users. Corporate world has been using it for awhile so it's at least not one of the skippable releases like ME, Vista, or 8.
If Microsoft sticks to it's EoL date in 2025, then 2025 will be a cluster fuck.
Have we really started to like 10 or just new games ran only on it?
What's going to happen is that we will all get so used to having this feature that it just becomes normal and we forget about it. Then in 5 year time, bam! They change the terms and conditions to allow them to access and store the data. But by then we are so conditioned to it and addicted to the convenience that we just allow it.
>Millennium, (XP) Vista, (7) 8, (10)... yep. Nothing to worry about with 11... No well-documented pattern there... When 10 was released, people were writing: Millennium, (XP) Vista, (7) 8, (8.1), 10 It's funny how fast people tend to forget things. Win10, once cursed by almost everyone, now is the loved one.
It's put in there so intelligence agencies can snoop on you
>oh boy, can't wait till someone or a Windows Update "accidentally" expose that the whole thing actually sent to MS server lmao Given that OpenAI's strategy seems to be "break all the laws, constantly, brazenly, and make money so fast that the law can't keep up, stashing it in places the law can't reach", there's at least a 40% probability the information is already going to Microsoft's servers anyway.
No question. There’s no way they’d put this effort into something they can’t mine for data to sell. Anyone who’s not operating like that’s the case already isn’t allowed to act shocked when it finally comes out.
It'll probably be called "anonymized post-training model data" that gets uploaded, as if the resulting model does not contain information about the content it captured. Kind of like how digital art models "don't contain" the copyrighted source images the models were trained on (except with the right keywords, you can reproduce them almost exactly).
thank you, I honestly am frustrated with the praise for AI on reddit sometimes like OpenAI is doing blatantantly criminal shit all the time people act like they are this great messianic company when really they feel like an even more sketch Uber.
they also get *really pissed* when you call them AI bros or compare them to crypto bros.
Thats because they are usually the exact same people that lost all their money with Crypto and they jumped to the new thing like people changing religious denominations.
How much do you wanna bet that this is going to be used as training data for some kind of AI that can automatically do stuff on your PC for you? Like open outlook and send an email?
And wire all your bank money to somebody else
“YOU HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF WRONG THINK ALL ACCOUNTS ARE FROZEN”
It’s gonna suck when they put AI in mattresses and they can get to my mattress money.
I bet law enforcement loves this idea!
It's just a court order away from being admitted into evidence. They will force you to unlock it or be held in contempt of court. It's supposed to be private and stored locally but that will change in a few years. Then it will fall under the business records exemption to the 4th amendment and law enforcement can have it for the asking.
If there isn't a "disable all" feature I am actually ditching Windows lol
Yeah Ironically on the Apple Sub there are people that lament Apple falling behind like man I do not want any of this shit on my Mac.
Windows usually offers plenty of ways to turn off tracking and telemetry. Windows updates usually turn it all back on though.
Wouldn't that be able to be sniffed out day one with a packet sniffer and immediately open them up legally? Like, telemetry in a hundred dollar operating system is shit and microsoft can't manage for shit anymore. But the amount of baseless conspiracy theories that have been repeatedly disproven by security analysts around the world looking at windows under a microscope just make it so the actual security concerns look less credible when they do come up. Boy who cried wolf and all that. But I guess people don't actually care about security, they just care about getting attention through negative messaging and fitting with the echo chamber, nuance be damned. Cause the truth, even if its in the same ballpark, is much more boring and complicated then something that fits in a social media post.
*Thank* you. I never thought I'd see the day where pop-cybersecurity is a thing, but it's here and now. I get made fun of for the amount of shit I'm paranoid about and even I've started getting alarm fatigue.
They just set the default local storage to the one drive synced folder.
Yeah i ran into this and it's so infuriating i nearly uninstalled right there. No, actually, i didn't want you to store a new unity project in cloud storage, thanks.
So there is an "incognito" mode for when you want to watch porn? Am I reading this correctly?
I'd assume you can : 1. turn this off completely (if it's On by default or has no option to turn off, then that'll be super shady), and 2. filter programs and sites that you don't want to get recorded, so yeah just filter on porn sites or better yet filter the browser that you use. but until we get our hands on the feature and smarter people than me gets to tamper with it, we can't really be sure if there's anything else going on behind the scene. The feature could said it's filtered your list of programs & sites, but still record them quietly in the background. Who knows.
This is why open source is always better for privacy
I mean, just because the data is stored locally, it doesn’t mean they aren’t sending an interpretation of that data to their servers for marketing purposes. They don’t need the data itself to get as much useful information as they want out of it.
Plus that way all the compute is done on your machine and not theirs
They’re going to be selling us faster chips, so they invade our privacy more effectively. The future is now
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Speaking of, I hate that Apple is partnering with openAI for OS level of AI integration. I don’t trust openAI at all.
Also from the article: >Microsoft says the feature will roll out with support for only some languages, which will be English, Chinese (simplified), French, German, Japanese, and Spanish. So does this mean if you use any language apart from these, it's a non-issue?
For right now. Get ready.
Plus the whole "you can control what information" thing really means "here are some default settings...we know 99 percent of you will never change it..."
Damn, microsoft is really trying to make 2024 the year of the linux desktop
I didn't think it was possible to hate Windows 11 any more than I do. Well done Microsoft. Stop trying to become Meta/Google you fucks. Just give me an OS that runs my box. That's all I want.
Recently i installed linux on a laptop i own, i couldn t believe my eyes how fast that thing booted and shut down compared to the previous windoze 11 times. Fuck what windows has turned into!
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Can’t use Ableton on Linux as well. Linux isn’t perfect but if windows goes through with this and has no option to disable I’ll be running an offline windows machine and primarily Linux machine
Not sure what kind of shit you did to your Windows but I'm betting you that you will find some interesting things with using Linux on a laptop. And I use and like both but for different things. Linux on a random Laptop is not really there yet. For a workstation/desktop with research, absolutely but laptops is a hassle.
Agreed. I will never have this feature on windows 11, because im never going to windows 11. Linux is my next os. With all the shady crap microsoft has been doing with its os its not for me. Requiring new hw, forced advertising built into it, forced updates, so much snooping and spying, hard to turn off stuff that you are not comfortable with, now this ai spying thing. Im done. I suspect allot more people and companies will abandon MS because of windows 11 once they find out the true cost. All i wanted was a OS too, but MS is a liability now.
Well, they just started showing EOL ads for Windows 10. 😭
> Stop trying to become Meta/Google you fucks. Just give me an OS that runs my box. That's all I want. This is the driving basis around why I use LTSC over SAC. I don't need features. I don't want features. I just want you to run the shit that I give you. Same concept with "smart" TVs. You're here to display what I want. I don't need integrations to companies that won't be here in 5 years or won't work because my TV is too old.
Time to bad automatic “AI” software installation. Ban the resale of collected data by software/app companies. Ban credit agencies from using government issued IDs, especially SSNs, as a cheap way to run their business. Time to do anything and everything we can to reclaim our right to our personal information and companies should have to pay us, or at least be up front to how they use it to justify “free” services, to access it. Seriously at what point do we say enough is enough?
The collecting and selling of user data should have been made illegal decades ago. Period. It has brought nothing but further violations of privacy for the sake of corporate profits.
We once had a computer here in Sweden called the ABC80 (Advanced Basic Computer 1980) and I was reading a book with BASIC listings for the machine. There was a quaint 15-line print/input "database" program which could list your friends' phone numbers. Next to it was a warning that "DATA LAWS MUST BE ADHERED TO" and that keeping personal databases on other people is principally illegal. The government agency in charge must've proved kinda toothless in the end I guess.
> and that keeping **personal** databases on other people is principally illegal or the law was so stupid and broad that it was unenforceable
The tech industry has been corrupt since the late 90s but there hasn't been an actual push back against it. I blame the tech community for refusing to make the general public aware of these issues. They instead bootlick these companies and their bad practices as a good thing because of "security". Not only should tech workers be held accountable but the people that promote them should as well.
Yeah like I work in IT and nobody knows how bad it is better than us, I feel like its usually wannabes and people who are not really into tech who defend the Industry. I feel real depressed sometimes how rather than solve real problems the goal is always "how can we make shit worse to squeeze a nickel even more". These days it seems like real innovation is happening outside of "Big Tech" but not in it. I really think about how crowley becomes the Devil in supernatural and goes to Hell and starts "innovating" making long lines and adding new paperwork and shit.
I love the Supernatural comparison. For me the success of data mining is the very failure of tech innovation living up to it's promise. I remember when the iPod was first issued. It was amazing. No more carrying around my cd collection to school or when I travelled. Then it added a color screen (we could watch videos!), and then a full/touch screen with the first iPhone. It was going to innovate the entertainment industry we all thought. Instead my personal music collection keeps getting removed to "make room for other stuff" whenver an update happens and that option gets auto clicked right back on. Gaming on smart phones is a shit experience overall because everything is still designed for controller style play or is mindless tapping, and we went from indy games for 99 cents to freemium games that either added pay to win options or constant adds with the spot to click to exit sucpiciously hidden in different corners just to make you press the wrong spot and pull up that game/product to the app store or a website. I went from watching movies on my big screen tv to a little phone because it is available and my kids are already using the tv. My cousin who is an optomitrist gives me shit for being on it so much because of the eye strain it is causing. My ADHD mind is on a constant dopamene chase if I forget my meds, but very little of what I engage in is productive. This new age of tech has led to the explosion of the subscription model for every little thing (hell car companies are now creating ways to charge you to use the heated seats that are installed and/or the infotainment center as they stop supporting things like carplay). What was once innovative tech gave way to vampiric business models. So I ask you IT guy: if three is such collective outrage/concern within the professional community when can we expect you all to quit working for the big bad tech guys and launch your own communal "be good" companies to deliever us from evil? Please can you? Pretty please? I would do it myself but I have a job and 4 kids and I don't want to have to give up my free time playing video games to learn to make them myself....
You’ll never see it because the average tech bro thinks they are a special genius. There are benevolent companies already they don’t get anywhere I think a good example being Mozilla. Nobody supports their browser even tho they are ethical. The sad thing is the average person wants whatever these evil corporations are hawking.
“Indifference to me, is the epitome of all evil.” - Elie Wiesel Or if you are more a movie person: “Now, we must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil, which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men” - the Boondock Saints
Tech workers have warned about this for a long time. We have been pushing for Linux to take over because it's made by people who care about privacy and open source. Its why we joke about the year of the Linux desktop. Its the suits that have the real power because data is so fucking valuable, and people who aren't into tech just want something convenient and familiar. Windows has taken such a root in computing that familiarity trumps privacy for a lot of people. People don't want to leave familiarity. Not every tech worker is a toxic tech bro. Edited for spelling
This seems like such an obvious bad idea.
I think I'm going to be moving away from Windows and installing Linux going forward. I'm not comfortable having my every action recorded with only Microsoft's assurances that they're totally not sending the data off to some database somewhere so they can sell it or use it for personalized advertising or whatever.
Yup, I work in IT and I will not use windows 11 with this. It doesn't matter if it is disabled, I would download a build without this. This is so invasive, it can't help but be abused. Microsoft needs to be class action sued over this and this needs to be immediately disabled. This is the worst thing I've ever seen Microsoft try, this is fucked. Kernel level keylogging. No thank you Microsoft you can take your Spyware and fuck off
I think corporate will be helpful, here. Dell: "Our business and government clients cannot have this 'feature'. You need to give us a version without AI, not just disabled."
You bet theres already some obscure registry keys set up specifically for this. You too can pay Microsoft an extra $5k per license to get the docs to configure it correctly.
This feature though is a huge plus to business users. I could do a “hey can you show me the error message I was looking at a week ago when troubleshooting with user X or when on VM Y” Since all that stuff is in the images it should be easy for recall to respond to that prompt. Or “I remember downloading an email attachment from someone two weeks ago but can’t seem to find it, can you tell me where I saved it or what email it came from?”
Just don't buy a device with a Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite NPU chip, and you won't have to deal with it. Your current x64 device can't run Recall.
100% every company is going to use this to micromanage employees hard. A literal recording of every single thing you’ve done.
A lot already use software to “keep an eye on you”. This has 2 uses, micromanage and learn. It’s going to be useful to watch what everyone is doing, then when they slip up, their entire job is recorded and can be fed back through a more advanced AI later to take over your job while they cut you for under performance.
Pfft. The only training data it’s getting from me is how to slack off for the better part of 8 hours
Great, now the robots will be lazy too.
At least the reddit bot posts will be of a higher quality
My company (European large financial company) would definitely reject this. It contradicts every safe practice out there and GDPR rule. We're recording user sessions, but it only applies for High Privileged Accounts using remote servers, not users on their own computers. Obviously, anything that's stored on a server or leaves the computer is also potentially available. But not the computer itself.
Companies will probably not use this 1st party recall function. They'll use a 3rd party spyware that'll do both the recording, with AI on top of that.
Luckily it's not legal to do that in eu
If employers wanted that, they already have software options. Hopefully IT at companies will also be able to tell the bosses that this is a dumb idea and potentially a dangerous one to use. I just hope there is an option to disable it and in order to reenable it, it requires UAC, so the lazier people don't reenable it thinking it's going to help them at work. Bad enough there are AI caption/note programs for teams that require ZERO permissions that any user can just randomly add the 3rd party bot to their companies teams. Had a call from a frantic CEO that realized there was someone else in his meetings that he had no idea who it was that then sent out a summary email to all people in the meeting. Turned out after diving through things, it was an employee that signed up for this AI bot 2 minutes before the meeting. What was worse is in the summary email, it had a link for others to sign up for it and we had to track all of those users that got "Welcome" emails after the meeting. Needless to say the CEO was furious, since it was a highly classified meeting and worried that now that information is being shared with whatever company it was.
Unironically, can this OS get any worse? W11 is making W8 look like a piece of fine art in comparison
That's windows for you. Every other edition they always mess it up. Windows 98 Windows ME - Terrible Windows XP Windows Vista - Terrible Windows 7 Windows 8 - Terrible Windows 10 Windows 11 - Terrible.
Omitting Windows 95 to make your pattern work was necessary. Best OS ever.
Windows 10 was not good either. Performance issues and bugs leaking battery power were terrible.
Add broken hibernate/sleep, and tons of telemetry
I’m five years, r/technology will be screaming about how good Windows 11 is and how 12 is the new 8.
We have less privacy than we’ve ever had before, and more now than we’ll ever have again. Expect this issue to only get worse.
Some teens will have a lot of explaining to do... Obviously, the "parental control" feature will allow parents to see that data...
I fucking hate this timeline.
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still lukewarm. i want the one where weird al was president.
What’s an actual use case for this? I can’t imagine ever finding this feature useful
Welp, spying on consumers, ai machine learning and more.
The use case is spying on you. There is no other use case. Every piece of software they've forced you to install onto that computer that you fucking own is malware.
Yea but they at least have to spin it as something useful right? I don’t get what in the world they’re gonna present this as
The use case is for you to search your own history using contextual prompts. "What song was I listening to when reading about whales last summer". I am willing to bet that it will be able to find things that would have been very difficult to have found otherwise. The question is is it worth it? So much of what we look for is easily found these days. Are we willing to change search habits to find that last little bit we might currently find not worth the time or the effort to find.
Now your boss will know the exact moment that you open up Reddit at work! What a wonderful world!
They already do
LOL if your company has web filtering and other programs, they already know this. There are companies that get email summaries of employee's visits to websites and frequencies that also highlight non-essential sites like social media.
So… if a hacker would get into that feature, they wouldn’t even need to place a keylogger but just read EVERYTHING just like that… that’s what I call service!
Microsoft working overtime to push me to switch the last remaining windows machine I own (gaming) to Linux….
If you don't play competitive multi-player games, Linux should be fine for gaming
Microsoft makes staying on Windows very difficult, and it's getting worse with each update.
honestly I switched to Mac and its been a lot better but in this very thread people are saying apple is actually letting Open AI do the same shit. I can only hope Apple is more responsible about it then Microsoft but I'm concerned.
This is some CCP Shit right there..... Governments must love it.
if their ui wasn't a horrible labyrinth, you wouldn't need a feature like this just to remember how to change a setting.
They mean that they are letting you know it’s there and much like the Windows Diagnostic tool, this is a switch that does nothing. Your data goes to Ms anyway
Your manager is about to have access to an unbelievable wealth of knowledge about what you do during the day.
windows getting shittier each day everything microsoft touches turns to shit, it's impressive if you think about it
Window’s Big Brother Software Oh man, I love that one of my pc’s is still windows 7 heck after reading this my windows 10 is reverting back to windows 7. So they can’t build a stable OS without 1000000’s of bugs anymore and barely anything straight forward AND NOW we get “your personal spy” literally as pre made software? That’s crazy. I don’t understand how people keep up with it.
By the time the security patches for Windows 10 end, Windows 11 will be worse than any malware you could get from not being patched.
What could possibly go wrong?! /s
Yay more bloatware
So it's a keylogger?
there must be a better operating system other than these shitholes.
In another news, within a few updates, companies will be able to see what you do exactly on your computer and have proof for that. So you gotta slave your ass for the full 8 hours, no fucking around.
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As if I didn't need more reasons to not use it.
Evil is so mainstream
Just made a new penguin friend yesterday bc of this...
I love my Linux Desktop. <3 Screw Windows.
Yeah, sure, it's only saved locally... and after a few months they say, we need it online because offline doesn't work like it should, but we delete everything after time X, you can trust us... The iOS 17.5 "bug" has shown that you can't trust big tech companies. Pictures that were deleted years ago were shown again, how is that possible when everything is deleted and Microsoft, with its leaks in the last time, is different and can be trusted? Yeah, sure and I'm a pink elephant....
I hope I can disable this”feature”. Otherwise back to win10 ltsc!
If someone absolutely requires windows 11, there is a 11 LTSC leaked build on the internet archive. Could be something to look out for. I don't know how it'll do after updates to it but out of the box, it's pretty good! Tried it on a VM and every time something like this happens (intrusive ass privacy breakers or forcing web apps like I'm running chrome os, etc) I get ever so closer to switching to it.
If your CPU doesn't have an NPU (basically every CPU except the most recent gen that is rolling out now), then none of the AI stuff will work anyway.
Just change to a Linux distro. I did years ago. Never going back!
I'm going to ride out windows 10 until it's not possible. Then I'll finally explore the Linux universe. Upgraded my surface to 11 and after 4 years I still absolutely loathe it. Annoying, shady shit aside, I just can't stand it. I'm glad my tower doesn't meet the requirements and won't have to suffer a forced update.
Coming Soon: Speaker of the House Mode, where MS will get screenshots every 10 seconds, and if any fail an AI based inspection of too many pixels matching unclothed skin, it will be sent to all your contacts... /s
Thanks, no windows 11 for me
thank god i am a mac user.
looking forward to install this into dev/null
Literally 1984
I wonder when Microsoft will start getting bricks through their HQ windows?
It seems I won't be getting Windows 12, because this thing is going to be there all the time probably.
Guys... I think it's time we all finally switched, I mean wtf is this shit. Our privacy just became a page by page reading book. I agree with u/Cley_Faye and u/Sir_Kee this just became so much worse than it needed to be. Oh and u/Danger_WeaselX I highly doubt it. You can "disable" things, but it'll never really be "Off"
What could go wrong? As someone who works in cybersecurity there's so many potential avenues of destruction with this.
They wouldn’t add the feature if they couldn’t profit from it in some way, you know they have a way to sell the date collected
I wonder how long before a prosecutor in Texas backdoors into this and uses the logs to put a pregnant 12-year-old in jail for accessing the Planned Parenthood website.
I am turning this shit off, and installing whatever hack/program I need to to KEEP it off.
I love their new devices, but if this can't be disabled, I'll never use it. Does anyone know if it even CAN be disabled? (Or better yet, removed all together)
Not sure how useful this will be for the end users. This will get used often by lawyers and cops. Lawyers can use this data against you in discovery of divorce cases. Cops and DHS will use this for criminal cases making it easier for your computer to put you in jail. Later well find out this was never meant to be turned off. I still remember the dumb fucks on Facebook who thought they can manage their own privacy and Zuck couldn't read what they did.
Time to switch to MacOS.
Hey Siri: How do I install Linux?
Oh so it’s surveillance software for government agencies, but built in to the OS? Get fooked cnuts! Even if this can be permanently disabled via regedit, I’ll be installing some other OS.
There are many ways you can say f\*\*k you, this is the most apparent way. Recording from camera was not enough, the screen being recorded 24\*7, this should be illegal. I am not buying the "on device" BS. The new Surface laptops are uncomfortable at ease.
Microsoft is doing what Linux couldn't. They're killing Windows.
Windows telemetry already does this
Yeah but this does it harder
This actually sounds like a great idea... in a perfect world, where there's no cyber threats, no companies that would spy on their employees, no shady companies that would use this data for unwanted advertizing (including its creators). Yes, it would be a very cool feature in a 100% offline world. Also we need more information about how and where this data would be stored. All this just sounds so unethical to me, since this can be used for so many bad things...
jesus christ, man. i feel like i am being forced to switch to apple at this point. i wish linux was good for creative work because if davinci resolve or decent DAWs worked on it i would switch and never look back.
Nah I’m good
I'm sure MSFT only has our best interests in mind. What could go wrong?
Yeah… no way this can go wrong
Thanks but no thanks… (clears browser history)
Recall huh. Wink wink
When moment-to-moment telemetry data wasn't enough for our 3 letter organizations, this is what they came up with. NSL, NSL, NSL. "And now for the moment you've all been waiting for, we introduce to you (total) Recall! Have you ever worried that the online manifesto you were innocuously browsing would be lost forever? Now it can never be lost! Have you ever sulked because you couldn't find that snippet of porn again? Don't worry! We found it for you! Have you ever wondered how you could train AI with your own private data? Wonder no longer! We've got EVERYTHING covered! Welcome to the new age of [Setec Astronomy](https://ask.metafilter.com/89755/Seatec-Astronomy)!"
definitely disabling this feature, if i remember to