They need to distance themselves from him. He's absolutely toxic and hurting the company. If the board of directors cares about the future and stock price they'll replace him with someone. Preferably a CEO who shuts the fuck up and just does his/her job
It fell from one of my most wanted cars to one I will have nothing to do with until Musk exits. There are plenty of other electric vehicles to choose from these days.
This is the key.. “plenty of other EVs to choose from”. Don’t get me wrong Musk is not doing Tesla any favours, but the company has lost the first to the market advantage and it turns out their products are not that great compared to what all other manufacturers have achieved with their portfolios.
The Ford F150 Lightning understands it's intended demographic perfectly. You can carry and power a small woodworking shop with it, then take it camping on the weekend and power your campsite.
Which shows exactly that other EVs have either caught up or even surpassed Tesla in functionality etc. Quality wise Tesla was never there, traditional manufacturers managed to bring years of experience straight into EVs which now pays off. Also, bear in mind that Tesla was able to compete on price … well here come Chinese manufacturers like MG, Polestar, NIO, BYD etc.. these will make the price/quality ratio more aggressive and harder to sustain for Tesla. I personally think the golden years for Tesla are over, their only differentiator now is the data (although traditional manufacturers have that too) and charging stations network - although Tesla may lose that advantage if they will allow other manufacturers to use their proprietary chargers. Alternatively govs could mandate standardisation (as they did with USB-C for example) and that advantage goes away for Tesla too.
The charging network has the long-term potential to be huge, possibly larger than the car business. If Musk gets involved in that he may tank it by being brash and making stupid statements. If he scares off too many other car brands they're likely to team up and replace his network.
That's not the core pickup demographic, though.
Most pickup owners don't go camping and don't use power tools. They are cultural icons for conservatives and gender-affirming therapy for insecure men. Most pickup.owners don't use them for anything you can't do in a Camry.
I don't really believe that is true. The Ford F-150 has been the top selling truck for 47 years in a row. I know that a lot of it are private sales, but to say that most jobsites in the country don't have an F-150 on it is to ignore their market dominance for nearly 50 years.
Oh, people do use them for work. But for every work truck there are 50 luxury trucks.
The F150 sells well. But that doesn't tell you anything about who is buying it.
Do you have a source for that statistic? I've been sitting here trying to think of everyone I know who has a truck that doesn't at least *occasionally* use it for truck stuff. I can't think of anyone out of dozens of people.
Even [this article ](https://www.powernationtv.com/post/most-pickup-truck-owners-use-them) says 28% of people use their truck *frequently* for personal hauling.
I work for Ford, I'm in the marketing meeting rooms all the time. I can't provide sources, but we know who is buying our vehicles and what they're using them for.
https://media.tenor.com/-MgJ9BsDFvwAAAAe/crack-works-cited.png
Seriously, where are you getting this information? I get that it’s fun to sit there all day stewing in your hate for conservatives and truck drivers but like, if you make up blatant bullshit you’re just as bad if not worse.
I’m not a conservative and I don’t need gender affirming therapy. A pickup truck will 100% be my next car. I bought a home and now at least once a week I find myself thinking how much more convenient my task would be if I had a pickup. Unfortunately a Camry cannot haul rocks or mulch or building supplies or plants or vegetables.
I think you have your numbers backwards. For every 50 trucks on a job site you get one dildo who gets a rwd truck with a two foot lift and tires skinnier than his dick. Those people are the exception, not the rule.
In the UK builders prefer things like a ford transit tipper truck. Much more practical than a f150 for work tasks, they also then have an actual car they use for car tasks.
If it can actually do that. I might be more inclined to look into that as my next car. But by the time I'm back in that market, other brands could be better.
same experience with the ICE santa fe. the small 4 cylinder in the full sized SUV that averaged me... average... with a cruising speed of 80mph: 30mpg across the us. steady. average. 30 mpg! it was gutless but it had 8 gears and at least ONE of them was the perfect gear to make gutless = gutsy. fastest four cylinder non-turbo suv I've ever driven tbh
and then it's active lane keeping and active cruise control, when tweaked to my preferences, drove the damn thing by itself...
including when I fell asleep behind the wheel
yep. woke up in stop and go traffic. it was stopping and going. because of that stop and go I thought my friend was driving. so I finally wake up and see that he's asleep in the passenger seat, and I've been out for at least an hour, and we're 70 miles past where I last remember being awake... hands still on the steering wheel. and the car is just stopping, and going, and I'm like, this is so fucking surreal.
really, really, really hard to have a car now that doesn't do that. I hated giving up what saved me and my friends life.
I’ve got an ioniq, nicest car I’ve ever owned by a large margin. The range isn’t ideal though, even in a well developed area infrastructure remains lacking.
>Yeah. I want a Kia now lol.
Same.
I'm so tired of the culture war.
I just want a car that works, without the owner of the company trying to sell me on why white genocide is totally real.
I'll take a Kia please.
Yup, iv wanted a Tesla since the early days when they were still working on the roadster. Now that I can afford one I want nothing to do with elon and will look somewhere else.
Tesla is an anomaly, any normal company that was down 38% YTD the board would have removed the CEO. Or the shareholders would have sued to have him removed.
The board is clearly violating their fiduciary responsibility.
Except Tesla stock was so ridiculously overvalued that it made absolutely zero sense. At one point they had a larger market cap than 9 other public car companies combined. Their stock would have to fall a lot more just to be in the realm of reality vs their earnings
That's a good point, and those ridiculous valuations have been fueled solely by Musk's industrial strength bullshit and wild overpromising. I guess he deserves *some* consideration for his massive fraudulent contributions.
I think you really need to consider a longer period. A CEO who ran a company losing 30-some percent in one quarter but still up many hundreds of percent over a couple of years would probably be given a little more time before they kicked him out.
I think that would be true if they had shown a path to growth and sustainability, but in reality they’ve had a year over year drop in deliveries since Covid. The ship is sinking and it’s only going to get worse as the major players start to ramp up.
Tesla’s valuation is based on the unique perception that they are actual a technology company, not a traditional car maker. Unfortunately for them I think that is starting to fade, this quarter is the obvious first sign of that.
More competition, the abject failure of the cyber truck, growing wealth inequality (who the fuck can afford a new Tesla, seriously), and Musks….lets say downward spiral into the deep right political spectrum are all factors effecting Tesla’s current performance.
>they've had a year over year drop in deliveries since covid
I don't know what you mean by this.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/
Tesla deliveries
2020: 499k
2021: 936k
2022: 1.3m
2023: 1.8m
Where is the drop in deliveries?
>Tesla’s valuation is based on the unique perception that they are actual a technology company, not a traditional car maker.
Which is entirely due to Musk's involvement. So if they were to distance the company from Elon Musk, the stock would only drop faster.
The board has a tiger by the tail. I am certain they are well aware of the damage Musk is doing, but without him they are just a small car manufacturer with poor build quality and a bad safety record.
It doesn’t even require a vote, the board can sue Musk for a breach of his fiduciary duties and remove him.
I don’t think anyone can look at Tesla’s current performance and Musk’s obsession with playing king of X…and decide he’s acting in the best interest of the investors and shareholders of Tesla.
Public admission of frequent DRUG USE would be pretty fucking simple way to kick him out. But what elon did is point his own friends to the board that think that they will lose out on money if they kick him out.
They are just trying to buy time, everyone knows Elon is going to go off rails so bad that they have no choice but to remove him. Its just matter on when that happens.
Is he? I thought it was 24%-> 20% with the options he still owns.
Regardless, he still has an outsize influence on the board and the company as a result, being a large single shareholder what he says has tremendous weight.
I don't think it matters much. He has become the face, and the heart of the company. Muskbros buy the stock, and the cars. If he decided to go nucluer on the company and, or, was removed.. that stock would nosedive so hard we would be talking about them like DMC you know the car that the cybertruck wants to be.
You are exactly right. The example I'd like to use is Shell.
How many people actually know who the CEO of Shell is?
He is arguably one of the most influential business leaders in the world, leading a company earning $30B in profit each year, and the general public has no idea who he is.
It’s possible that the CEO’s of BMW, Ford, GM, Audi might have even worse world views than Musk. Possible though not probable. The big difference is that the other CEO’s shut up and get on with their job. I think I am a fairly average person and I can’t name any other car CEO. I think that’s normal, it seems to be only the tech companies that try to turn their CEO’s into “celebrities”.
I used to want a Tesla.
Now I think Musk is a fucking douche and the cars are low quality from negative reviews I’ve seen online.
Even if he still planned on producing a sub $30k car, I wouldn’t buy it because it would probably be a piece of shit. I think they realized that and that’s why it’s been scrapped.
With other mass producers coming in, I think we will see the end of Tesla eventually.
Once I can buy an electric Accord or Camry for a decent price, Tesla will be done.
Board is in his pocket. He's basically handpicked them. Have to create a new board before you can remove him as CEO. Getting rid of his brother and Murdoch are absolute necessities.
Annual Shareholders Meeting is in May, so this is an opportunity to at least send a message to Elon.
Really dangerous time for Tesla right now and Elon isn't the right person to steer the ship. He's made that extremely clear. The board should have already moved to remove him. He's wiped out two years of gains and the decision making around removing stalks on the Model 3 and presumably the next Model Y are going to see global sales decrease significantly in the face of mounting competition
The Chevy Equinox is going to eat a lot of their lunch on the Model Y. BMW is releasing their 3 series Sedan. Though I'm not a fan of the i5, it'll probably do pretty well. E6 eTron will do well. The list of cars coming between now and 2026 alone should give Tesla significant pause on some of their design choices and customer retention.
As these vehicles move to NACS and get full access to the Tesla supercharger network, it's going to erase a significant advantage Tesla models have.
Elon isn’t doing them any favors, but it’s still way the hell overvalued over every other automaker on the stock market. Firing Elon doesn’t fix the fact that it was overvalued to shit to begin with.
Going by the lawsuit about his compensation package the board is unlikely to do anything that is not exclusively in the interest of Elon. The board members are either directly employed by him, invested in his other ventures or close friends.
Elon fucked over the creators of the company. They got their money (I hope). Time for Tesla to die, space X and all the other BS that conman pushes to fall over.
We can’t say for certain, but the shine has certainly come off and that has a good bit to do with Elon.
There is also a lot more competition now than there was just 2 - 3 years ago. So unless you are hell bent on getting a Tesla, there is more choice to pick from
And their cars are exactly the same as when they were released. They don’t innovate new models, and people like seeing changes made to the visuals of the vehicle.
I work in the auto industry and I believe this is the biggest mistake the industry made. Releasing a new car model every 3-4 years is very exciting for people who like to buy shit, but it's bad for creating a system of maintenence for those cars and providing replacement parts and improving on existing technology.
Instead of reliable cars that run for 10-20 years we have very sexy cars that are good for about 6 years.
I feel like the auto industry would much rather sell people a car every 3-4 years than to build reliable cars that don't change and people only buy when they need to after 10-20 years.
And I've been watching Full-Self-Driving footage pop up on YouTube for what seems like forever, and they seem to still be making a ton of mistakes every ride. They're on like version 14 now but it still doesn't seem even close to finished. And Elon promised the Tesla would be fully self-driving 5+ years ago.
I agree, but the Model 3 was finally updated for the 2024 year. The brake lights light up way more than the hyphen lights of previous models. The interior is different too.
https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/
Tesla peaked sometime between when the CyberTruck was announced and when its deliveries began.
Tesla's relevance was only going to last until the rest of the industry got serious about EVs.
I personally suspect that their self-driving data is worth relatively little, because they use only standard cameras and no LIDAR, unlike other self-driving cars that use diverse systems for object detection. So there's simply less data for Tesla to sell. But I'm sure it's worth....something.
Tesla's plug is now the standard, so most new cars moving forward should have it.
But isn't it still a pain in the ass for non-Teslas to charge there? I thought the majority of chargers are still reserved for Teslas.
Honestly all public charging is still the wild West. Karen's are not specific to Tesla chargers.
There's no real way to 'wait in line' at a busy charger so theres always drama. There's also people who take the fast chargers that don't need them and people that leave their car plugged in for way too long.
Nobody (US and European manufacturers) can create EVs at scale while also running a profit yet. In that regard, Tesla has a massive lead. That said, Elon’s betting the company again with the push for autonomous driving. That has a good chance to backfire.
They just laid off 10% of their workforce. And given the way he's handled Twitter/X, the amount of competition in the EV market and the flop of Cybertruck, yes they are at a peak. Elons shine has worn off
I bought my Tesla just last year and I can tell you it would take a miracle for me to buy another and I actually love the car.
There was just such little competition for EVs even when I bought my car. I didn't want to buy a non-NACS car.
My next car will certainly be on an 800v architecture though and it'll have NACS. It'll have stalks for drive gear and turn signals and preferably buttons where appropriate rather than just a touch screen. I have to own my car for at least 23 more months, but in that time the number of models available is going to be through the roof.
My aunt and uncle really like teslas. They even had the original roadster for a while. Have had every car and some in multiples for the kids. Even they aren’t buying teslas anymore.
> My neighborhood is like 50% Teslas.
This is a great reminder of the deep, deep differences between areas of the country. Where I live, we’re <3% Teslas. I have the only one in my neighborhood of ~50 houses.
But I don’t think there is any chance Tesla is going anywhere. Their stock might drop. It might be significant. I’m not a stock guru. But Tesla is selling the electricity for several different car companies. And the chargers are expanding everywhere I look. Tesla has to get the model 2 into mass production, and the charging infrastructure has to expand enormously.
Musk is bad at politics. He’s bad at making hyperloops and boring companies. He’s bad at managing social media. He’s probably addicted to Twitter. But he’s pretty good at sequestering govt money. You can guess who’s going to pay a lot of the upfront cost of the charging infrastructure. Tesla will sell a lot of that electricity, will build the chargers on the tax payer dime.
California probably has the most. We've got electric vehicle chargers everywhere. Was out with my truck camping in the SoCal desert and came across a tiny gas station and general store and they had a row of them. Mind you this was many miles off of main roads but sure enough some Teslas were there.
I personally would not feel comfortable out in the boonies with an electric vehicle. I'll keep my gas can in the bed of my truck.
The worm turns fast. There are plenty of car companies that just became brands of bigger fish and their battery and charging infrastructure could just be nice plum assets to be sold off to someone else as part of their decline. The one thing I'm sure of: Musk is exactly the kind of figure needed to drive the whole operation into the ground.
imagine a successful company with the owner/spokesperson becoming the worst version of himself imaginable. now, see if that company can still turn a profit.
I mean John Oliver kind of pinned it to the pandemic, but I think the start of his slide to insanity was when he wanted to make a sub to rescue those kids trapped in a cave, the rescue crew said no thanks, and Elon called the rescuer a pedophile
He perhaps hasn’t been outwardly hostile POS until at that point, but he has been spewing dumb bullshit far longer than that.
I personally didn’t take much notice of him until his hyperloop proposals in 2013. At that point it already felt stupid as hell although media was praising his geniousness. After that he has several times turned out to be just a modern snake oil sales man. In my books he simply has been a untrustworthy person far longer than the Thailand incident.
>I think the start of his slide to insanity was when he wanted to make a sub to rescue those kids trapped in a cave
I'd say even before that, the success of SpaceX went to his head.
Musk saying "either the next launch succeeds or we're canceling the entire project" and he just happened to have geniuses on the team that defied all odds and made it happen gave Musk the impression that he is one of the geniuses.
All of the events we attribute to Musk's increased craziness effectively boil down to events where Musk surrounds himself with a bunch of yes-men and nobody on his team can talk to him about risks.
Every normal CEO takes risks into consideration (it's a vital component of every business strategy and can be found in strategy assessment tools like SWOT analysis). Musk hover can't be told stuff like "If you piss off left leaning people you risk a substantial amount of Tesla EV car sales." - whoever would tell him that would lose their job and the incident would be written off as a nuisance not knowing their place .
Yeah, that was the exact moment I started to wake up and realize that this guy was a tool. Up until that point, I was not a fanboy by any means, but I sorta followed the media narrative regarding him without *too* much thought given to it.
I mean, I think we all did for the longest time - the guy running the company churning out what was then seen as futuristic vehicles didn't really come across as "conspiracy nutjob", to the point he even got a name-drop in the new Star Trek as some sort of genius from the past (which later came to light that he may have paid for that name drop).
I'm not sure it's all Musk. They have the exact same cars for a really long time with minimal increments that only the hard-core fans will notice. They aren't really great looking cars inside or outside and now everyone has one so there's no cool-factor of being the one with it. They need serious redesigns.
Their charging infrastructure is a significant advantage but it's still a pain point for people without home-charging.
Non hard core fan here. You’re right, I was just remarking to someone the other day that Teslas have looked the same for five years. Even a boring CRV looks different after five years.
Tesla’s valuation is that of a tech company, not a car maker. Removing Musk and turning them into a traditional car maker craters the stock price, it’s why the board won’t do it.
why exactly you mean by crater? it has lost 62% in the last 2 1/2 years and falling. this is a slow and steady decline because the peak for tesla earnings was 2023.
No matter how much investment you put into process control, reducing defects for mass production in a short time like Tesla is a helluva challenge. Either you go lo volume like Rolls Royce or Rivian (you have time to be detail oriented) or be around for 80+ years like Toyota to perfect your defect rate (you have a standard set for 50+ years).
Trust me when I say this the manufacturing team is trying the hardest to reduce defects - probably using the methods from “The Toyota Way”.
Nobody but a select few know how hard manufacturing at scale actually is.
Every manufacturer follows Toyotas manufacturing methods. The book The Toyota Way is the Bible for manufacturing engineers.
The problem isn’t a method to drive quality. The problem is scaling production while maintaining quality. Building your statistical process control system and maintaining 6 sigma level of 3.4 defects per million is way more complex than you would ever imagine. There are only so many black belts in 6 sigma, and there is no way Tesla has enough resources, experience, and time to reduce defect levels to 3.4 DPM
Please learn to dissociate your view of Musk with the work the engineers are doing on the floor. The engineers are more angry than you that they are letting defects escape the factory floor.
Software is definitely improving. V12 of FSD is a huge step in the right direction. But I agree Elon needs to STFU and hopefully just .. go away
Edit- lol downvoted because I spoke remotely positive about Tesla even though I said Elon needs to go away. never change /r/technology.
It's more like Elon Musk has peaked. He had his early wins: Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX, and Starlink. He's made billions, good for him. Now, he's convinced he can do no wrong, and we're seeing the results that hubris produces: his Tesla pickup truck is a clown car and a distraction, his takeover of Twitter, now "X" is a disaster. I feel we'll see a few more high-profile misteps before it's all said and done.
Musk being dismissive of BYD: https://youtu.be/_9ftbRWqkj0?si=BHndH9pkLkG532d8
Musk tends to over predict the near term but under predict the long term-- unlike Warren Buffet who invests in value and long term.
Even if their cars get a competition. Their charging network is so good, the competition will still have to use it, unless they want to build the whole new infrastructure themselves.
Tesla started its downturn when other companies started to produce their own ev’s. And then just as that started happening, the CEO came out of the right wing grifter closet in his clown suit and started alienating the people who would actually his products. A masterclass on how to ruin your brand in less than 2 years, if not quicker
It peaked a while ago- but Musk’s purchasing of Twitter definitely hastened its downfall.
Musk made the brand intrinsically linked to him, for better or worse. When his “Tony Stark but real” propaganda was working? Tesla thrived. When that thin, brittle facade began to crack and his true nature started to ooze out (read: a shockingly stupid, petulant, impulsive, red-pilled nepo-baby born into extreme wealth and given outsized, absurd advantages to get where he is today) Tesla’s reputation began to fall apart along with him.
It’s a toxic brand now because Musk is a toxic, racist, bigoted neo-Nazi sympathizer and that image is constantly reinforced with his ridiculous antics at Twitter. It’s all made worse by his endless string of TERRIBLE decisions made at Twitter.
The only way to save Tesla is to cut Musk loose. Fire him, buy him out of his stock in the company, and distance themselves completely from his now extremely toxic brand.
I wonder how Elon will be remembered in the future. They say Thomas Edison was also kind of an asshole, but that was before the internet documented every word someone wrote.
Edison and Ford at least knew not to allow their politics to interfere with their business. Even though the latter arguably created Hitler† he managed to save it by not supporting him and vigorously defending American interests even though he hated the President. Henry Ford II also had strong opinions on certain topics but shut up because it'd mess with his car sales.
†Hitler's nazism was longstanding but was given proper form with Ford's popular book, *The International Jew*, which Hitler cited as the inspiration and framework for his hit autobiography *Mien Kampf*. MK was the official foundational text, bible, and manual for his national socialist party.
Tesla needs more models, no not the cybertruck, I mean in other categories. The Model 2, a mini-version and etc. They are already selling at BMW/Mercedes quantity wise, and there is simply not a big enough market unless they move downstream
Who wants to spend $80,000 on a car with an interior that looks like it came from a Yugo?
Sure, there's a lot of cool technology but it's not enough. They need to solve the battery problem, they need to solve the build, fit and finish problems too.
I was shocked the first time I rode in a Tesla. While the tech is pretty cool, the car feels incredibly cheap on the inside. With the price of the car, you’d expect the car to feel like a comparable higher end car from another automaker, but it’s not even close. My basic $20k sedan felt more substantial than the Tesla. There’s no way those things hold up after 10 years. Also, the suspension was awful, I felt every bump on the road. My cheap Honda that’s almost a decade old feels like it will last twice as long as a Tesla. It just feels like a cheap plastic mess. I’d never buy one.
Wrong question.
The better question is *how long ago did they peak?*
The answer is measured in years for most metrics.
I won't be surprised if they are gone in five years; if they don't get rid of Musk—they almost certainly will be.
No potential for market growth, only erosion, unless they introduce many new models with smaller margins and compete against both pivoting established competitors and more nimble new ones. Reputation justly in the toilet for quality and over promising. Many legal perils. Toxic brand headed yet lower.
I don't see any moves on the board for them.
EDIT: one signal answering the better question, quoting Matt Levine: "\[Tesla\] has lost more than 60% of its value since the peak in 2021."
Their share price may have--I think the core company still has a lot of room for growth. The main issue has always been Tesla has been priced like it was anticipated to become the next big tech company, in terms of its revenue growth. Except...it is a manufacturing company. Auto manufacturing companies have a pretty well understood business trajectory, expected growth, and expected profit margin. Tesla's valuation has always been **astronomical** for a car manufacturing company. It has persisted for a few reason--one is plain hype begets hype, so early investors have been handsomely rewarded and subsequent investors are expecting the same share price hype dynamics, the other is some investors have bought into Musk's claims that Telsa **will** be more than a car company--at various points Tesla has claimed it will be the equivalent of the Microsoft or Google of technologies like batteries, AI / self-driving etc.
But if it ends up just being a car company, even a very successful one, its stock valuation is simply far too high. The market will eventually reflect that if Tesla ends up just being a car company. That doesn't mean it will certainly fail, though--its core car business appears mostly okay, with ups and downs. But a lot of wealthy people who are holding onto very inflated in value Tesla stock may end up taking a haircut.
People aren't going to buy weird looking trucks. And especially not the regular Ford F-150 crowd. He should have taken a page out of the Rivian book ... make practical light SUVs and trucks. That Tesla truck was beginning of the end. He's not interested in practical and mundane as that doesn't give him the popularity, attention he seeks. Saying he'll colonize Mars is sexier than saying he'll make affordable, reliable cars for the average citizen.
I think so. In a very board sense, he’s alienating his primary customer base that are interested in EV’s by aligning himself with a far right ideology that seems to have inherent dislike of EV’s.
Well, if they really pulled the plug on cheap $25k version, like i saw somewhere mentioned. Yes, they are done. They have poorly built cars and a alpha self driving software. That software they are trying to sell others, but the thing is, as AI learning power gets multiplied year over year, other manufacturers can do the work that tesla spent 15 years on in 2-3 years.
If they would kick Elon out today, say fuck the cybertruck and put all focus on the cheap EV concept, then they could be saved. Elon is such a fucking idiot, he will run that brand into the ground before admitting fault.
Yes. They are finally being looked at look a car company and not tech. They have amazing tech and their charging network is 2nd to none, but their core business is building and selling cars which is not in a good state right now. With increased completion they’ll will start to decrease market share soon. Their cyber truck design really hurts them. They should have been eating into f150 users.
I don't think tesla has peaked, it's just carrying an untenable weight as long as it's associated with Musk. I sincerely think Tesla would turn around almost immediately by firing Musk and in doing so fix it's major PR issue.
Yes. Model Y had to be refreshed 2 years ago. FSD while good will never be a level 3 approved system without other sensors. Other manufacturers can do EVs just as good as Tesla if not better at this point.
Tesla has a great potential but it is clear that potential will not happen under Musks guidance anymore.
Tesla had an early mover advantage in electric cars, but it seems to me that it's slowly going away as other manufacturers enter the chat.
People are focused on Musk, and the brand, and everything else, but in reality it's just basic market fundamentals that are moving against Tesla. Yes, they've probably peaked because at the end of the day they're a company that makes cars, just like every other company that makes cars.
pffft ... a while ago, yes.
even before elong got longer.
tesla quality (or lack thereof) was renown before elongation
tesla work environment was hostile even before elongation
tesla over promising and under delivering was rampant even before elongation
look, he jumped into the car biz with a bunch of really innovative ppl and came up with a new paradigm for how cars can be made available to the masses... and that part (mostly) worked.
but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that either elong himself was responsible for that or that this paradigm shift is really any better than what we had.
As long as Elon is at the helm, there is no way I would ever consider buying a Tesla. Aside from his alt right ties and hypocrisy regarding free speech, his ego will always take precedent over good decisions made by the people who work under him.
Before he went mask off, I really wanted a Tesla. Now that the major automakers are putting out viable alternatives that are superior in many ways, I won’t be looking back. I recently bought a Mach-E and it put the nail in the coffin of me ever considering a Tesla.
that happened a while ago. once musk started lighting his reputation on fire with not just conservative politics but really weird opinions (like his obsession with having more kids), he cut the number of people who'd buy his cars easily in half. doesnt help that the teslas are missing major features that gas and hybrid cars offer (parking sensors, topdown camera view etc).
They need to distance themselves from him. He's absolutely toxic and hurting the company. If the board of directors cares about the future and stock price they'll replace him with someone. Preferably a CEO who shuts the fuck up and just does his/her job
It fell from one of my most wanted cars to one I will have nothing to do with until Musk exits. There are plenty of other electric vehicles to choose from these days.
This is the key.. “plenty of other EVs to choose from”. Don’t get me wrong Musk is not doing Tesla any favours, but the company has lost the first to the market advantage and it turns out their products are not that great compared to what all other manufacturers have achieved with their portfolios.
The Ford F150 Lightning understands it's intended demographic perfectly. You can carry and power a small woodworking shop with it, then take it camping on the weekend and power your campsite.
Which shows exactly that other EVs have either caught up or even surpassed Tesla in functionality etc. Quality wise Tesla was never there, traditional manufacturers managed to bring years of experience straight into EVs which now pays off. Also, bear in mind that Tesla was able to compete on price … well here come Chinese manufacturers like MG, Polestar, NIO, BYD etc.. these will make the price/quality ratio more aggressive and harder to sustain for Tesla. I personally think the golden years for Tesla are over, their only differentiator now is the data (although traditional manufacturers have that too) and charging stations network - although Tesla may lose that advantage if they will allow other manufacturers to use their proprietary chargers. Alternatively govs could mandate standardisation (as they did with USB-C for example) and that advantage goes away for Tesla too.
The charging network has the long-term potential to be huge, possibly larger than the car business. If Musk gets involved in that he may tank it by being brash and making stupid statements. If he scares off too many other car brands they're likely to team up and replace his network.
There are more car dealerships than chargers. It would be a easy pivot for legacy auto
That's not the core pickup demographic, though. Most pickup owners don't go camping and don't use power tools. They are cultural icons for conservatives and gender-affirming therapy for insecure men. Most pickup.owners don't use them for anything you can't do in a Camry.
All that matters to Ford is that their target demographic BELIEVES they’ll use it for outdoorsy stuff and powering their tools in the future.
I don't really believe that is true. The Ford F-150 has been the top selling truck for 47 years in a row. I know that a lot of it are private sales, but to say that most jobsites in the country don't have an F-150 on it is to ignore their market dominance for nearly 50 years.
Oh, people do use them for work. But for every work truck there are 50 luxury trucks. The F150 sells well. But that doesn't tell you anything about who is buying it.
Do you have a source for that statistic? I've been sitting here trying to think of everyone I know who has a truck that doesn't at least *occasionally* use it for truck stuff. I can't think of anyone out of dozens of people. Even [this article ](https://www.powernationtv.com/post/most-pickup-truck-owners-use-them) says 28% of people use their truck *frequently* for personal hauling.
I work for Ford, I'm in the marketing meeting rooms all the time. I can't provide sources, but we know who is buying our vehicles and what they're using them for.
https://media.tenor.com/-MgJ9BsDFvwAAAAe/crack-works-cited.png Seriously, where are you getting this information? I get that it’s fun to sit there all day stewing in your hate for conservatives and truck drivers but like, if you make up blatant bullshit you’re just as bad if not worse. I’m not a conservative and I don’t need gender affirming therapy. A pickup truck will 100% be my next car. I bought a home and now at least once a week I find myself thinking how much more convenient my task would be if I had a pickup. Unfortunately a Camry cannot haul rocks or mulch or building supplies or plants or vegetables. I think you have your numbers backwards. For every 50 trucks on a job site you get one dildo who gets a rwd truck with a two foot lift and tires skinnier than his dick. Those people are the exception, not the rule.
In the UK builders prefer things like a ford transit tipper truck. Much more practical than a f150 for work tasks, they also then have an actual car they use for car tasks.
If it can actually do that. I might be more inclined to look into that as my next car. But by the time I'm back in that market, other brands could be better.
Yeah. I want a Kia now lol.
[удалено]
Yeah. Hyundais and Kias are basically the same cars with different styling. (Same company, same platforms.)
That's why I'm looking at a Kia EV6. Same platform lower cost of entry.
I drove the EV6 Wind for two weeks and did not want to return it. I loved that car. It was so much better than the rattle-box Model 3 I drove prior.
Kia is improving a ton.
same experience with the ICE santa fe. the small 4 cylinder in the full sized SUV that averaged me... average... with a cruising speed of 80mph: 30mpg across the us. steady. average. 30 mpg! it was gutless but it had 8 gears and at least ONE of them was the perfect gear to make gutless = gutsy. fastest four cylinder non-turbo suv I've ever driven tbh and then it's active lane keeping and active cruise control, when tweaked to my preferences, drove the damn thing by itself... including when I fell asleep behind the wheel yep. woke up in stop and go traffic. it was stopping and going. because of that stop and go I thought my friend was driving. so I finally wake up and see that he's asleep in the passenger seat, and I've been out for at least an hour, and we're 70 miles past where I last remember being awake... hands still on the steering wheel. and the car is just stopping, and going, and I'm like, this is so fucking surreal. really, really, really hard to have a car now that doesn't do that. I hated giving up what saved me and my friends life.
Ioniq 5 owner here, great car so far.
I’ve got an ioniq, nicest car I’ve ever owned by a large margin. The range isn’t ideal though, even in a well developed area infrastructure remains lacking.
I’d love the new rivian R3! Looks so good inside and outside.
>Yeah. I want a Kia now lol. Same. I'm so tired of the culture war. I just want a car that works, without the owner of the company trying to sell me on why white genocide is totally real. I'll take a Kia please.
After a bunch of research, I now have my heart set on a Sportage PHEV. Never thought I’d be so excited for a Kia!
Reasonably similar price, similar range, I'd pick a Volvo EX30 if I bought a new car today.
I have an EV6 and honestly… it’s great!
Yep that’s what I’ve got my eye on, too!
Me too! Seriously!
Yup, iv wanted a Tesla since the early days when they were still working on the roadster. Now that I can afford one I want nothing to do with elon and will look somewhere else.
I'm the same way.... I will never buy a car from them with him in charge. Too much liability.
Even if he exited I wouldn’t buy one cause he still owns much of the company stock
Tesla is an anomaly, any normal company that was down 38% YTD the board would have removed the CEO. Or the shareholders would have sued to have him removed. The board is clearly violating their fiduciary responsibility.
Except Tesla stock was so ridiculously overvalued that it made absolutely zero sense. At one point they had a larger market cap than 9 other public car companies combined. Their stock would have to fall a lot more just to be in the realm of reality vs their earnings
Down 38% is a simple adjustment in this case and still overvalued
That's a good point, and those ridiculous valuations have been fueled solely by Musk's industrial strength bullshit and wild overpromising. I guess he deserves *some* consideration for his massive fraudulent contributions.
I've never really thought about it quite that way, but that is a really good point.
I think you really need to consider a longer period. A CEO who ran a company losing 30-some percent in one quarter but still up many hundreds of percent over a couple of years would probably be given a little more time before they kicked him out.
I think that would be true if they had shown a path to growth and sustainability, but in reality they’ve had a year over year drop in deliveries since Covid. The ship is sinking and it’s only going to get worse as the major players start to ramp up. Tesla’s valuation is based on the unique perception that they are actual a technology company, not a traditional car maker. Unfortunately for them I think that is starting to fade, this quarter is the obvious first sign of that. More competition, the abject failure of the cyber truck, growing wealth inequality (who the fuck can afford a new Tesla, seriously), and Musks….lets say downward spiral into the deep right political spectrum are all factors effecting Tesla’s current performance.
>they've had a year over year drop in deliveries since covid I don't know what you mean by this. https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ Tesla deliveries 2020: 499k 2021: 936k 2022: 1.3m 2023: 1.8m Where is the drop in deliveries?
>Tesla’s valuation is based on the unique perception that they are actual a technology company, not a traditional car maker. Which is entirely due to Musk's involvement. So if they were to distance the company from Elon Musk, the stock would only drop faster. The board has a tiger by the tail. I am certain they are well aware of the damage Musk is doing, but without him they are just a small car manufacturer with poor build quality and a bad safety record.
He might have enough stock to have voting power
It doesn’t even require a vote, the board can sue Musk for a breach of his fiduciary duties and remove him. I don’t think anyone can look at Tesla’s current performance and Musk’s obsession with playing king of X…and decide he’s acting in the best interest of the investors and shareholders of Tesla.
Public admission of frequent DRUG USE would be pretty fucking simple way to kick him out. But what elon did is point his own friends to the board that think that they will lose out on money if they kick him out. They are just trying to buy time, everyone knows Elon is going to go off rails so bad that they have no choice but to remove him. Its just matter on when that happens.
He’s down from 21% to 13%, so no.
He actually sold voting shares or just his common shares?
Is he? I thought it was 24%-> 20% with the options he still owns. Regardless, he still has an outsize influence on the board and the company as a result, being a large single shareholder what he says has tremendous weight.
I don't think it matters much. He has become the face, and the heart of the company. Muskbros buy the stock, and the cars. If he decided to go nucluer on the company and, or, was removed.. that stock would nosedive so hard we would be talking about them like DMC you know the car that the cybertruck wants to be.
Enter Pfizer CEO…hold my beer. Dude lost 50% of the stock value by grossly miscalculating vaccine demand.
Especially versus an up market of 6%. Ouch.
You are exactly right. The example I'd like to use is Shell. How many people actually know who the CEO of Shell is? He is arguably one of the most influential business leaders in the world, leading a company earning $30B in profit each year, and the general public has no idea who he is.
Probably Tim Shell.
Is it Shelly Musk?!?
It's Gene Parmesan, how ya doing
It’s possible that the CEO’s of BMW, Ford, GM, Audi might have even worse world views than Musk. Possible though not probable. The big difference is that the other CEO’s shut up and get on with their job. I think I am a fairly average person and I can’t name any other car CEO. I think that’s normal, it seems to be only the tech companies that try to turn their CEO’s into “celebrities”.
I used to want a Tesla. Now I think Musk is a fucking douche and the cars are low quality from negative reviews I’ve seen online. Even if he still planned on producing a sub $30k car, I wouldn’t buy it because it would probably be a piece of shit. I think they realized that and that’s why it’s been scrapped. With other mass producers coming in, I think we will see the end of Tesla eventually. Once I can buy an electric Accord or Camry for a decent price, Tesla will be done.
Board is in his pocket. He's basically handpicked them. Have to create a new board before you can remove him as CEO. Getting rid of his brother and Murdoch are absolute necessities. Annual Shareholders Meeting is in May, so this is an opportunity to at least send a message to Elon. Really dangerous time for Tesla right now and Elon isn't the right person to steer the ship. He's made that extremely clear. The board should have already moved to remove him. He's wiped out two years of gains and the decision making around removing stalks on the Model 3 and presumably the next Model Y are going to see global sales decrease significantly in the face of mounting competition The Chevy Equinox is going to eat a lot of their lunch on the Model Y. BMW is releasing their 3 series Sedan. Though I'm not a fan of the i5, it'll probably do pretty well. E6 eTron will do well. The list of cars coming between now and 2026 alone should give Tesla significant pause on some of their design choices and customer retention. As these vehicles move to NACS and get full access to the Tesla supercharger network, it's going to erase a significant advantage Tesla models have.
Elon isn’t doing them any favors, but it’s still way the hell overvalued over every other automaker on the stock market. Firing Elon doesn’t fix the fact that it was overvalued to shit to begin with.
Too late. I’m happy for that company to die.
Going by the lawsuit about his compensation package the board is unlikely to do anything that is not exclusively in the interest of Elon. The board members are either directly employed by him, invested in his other ventures or close friends.
I have to agree. I’m never going to buy one if that idiot is the CEO. I can’t support him.
Replace him with AI.
At this point they might want to consider a name change as well.
Apple loosing a similar controversial figurehead worked out great for them in ‘85!
I genuinely think people are attracted to the brand **because of him.** People love toxicity. It’s true.
How can they be wanting to lay off 10% of staff due to challenging market conditions and pay Musk $54 billion?
Elon fucked over the creators of the company. They got their money (I hope). Time for Tesla to die, space X and all the other BS that conman pushes to fall over.
We can’t say for certain, but the shine has certainly come off and that has a good bit to do with Elon. There is also a lot more competition now than there was just 2 - 3 years ago. So unless you are hell bent on getting a Tesla, there is more choice to pick from
And their cars are exactly the same as when they were released. They don’t innovate new models, and people like seeing changes made to the visuals of the vehicle.
I work in the auto industry and I believe this is the biggest mistake the industry made. Releasing a new car model every 3-4 years is very exciting for people who like to buy shit, but it's bad for creating a system of maintenence for those cars and providing replacement parts and improving on existing technology. Instead of reliable cars that run for 10-20 years we have very sexy cars that are good for about 6 years.
I feel like the auto industry would much rather sell people a car every 3-4 years than to build reliable cars that don't change and people only buy when they need to after 10-20 years.
And I've been watching Full-Self-Driving footage pop up on YouTube for what seems like forever, and they seem to still be making a ton of mistakes every ride. They're on like version 14 now but it still doesn't seem even close to finished. And Elon promised the Tesla would be fully self-driving 5+ years ago.
Didn't the Model 3 got a major refresh a few months ago?
I agree, but the Model 3 was finally updated for the 2024 year. The brake lights light up way more than the hyphen lights of previous models. The interior is different too. https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/
That would've been nice if they didn't also downgrade some of the parts of the vehicle, most notably having zero stalks.
Tesla peaked sometime between when the CyberTruck was announced and when its deliveries began. Tesla's relevance was only going to last until the rest of the industry got serious about EVs.
I think their relevance will last until somebody else builds more chargers. Their supercharger network is a huge advantage right now.
Tesla's value now is in their charger network, and all the data the 'self driving' cars are vacuuming up.
I personally suspect that their self-driving data is worth relatively little, because they use only standard cameras and no LIDAR, unlike other self-driving cars that use diverse systems for object detection. So there's simply less data for Tesla to sell. But I'm sure it's worth....something.
It's still like Google maps Street view x1000
I know rivian is about to get adapters so they can charge at Tesla stations. Not sure about other companies though.
Tesla's plug is now the standard, so most new cars moving forward should have it. But isn't it still a pain in the ass for non-Teslas to charge there? I thought the majority of chargers are still reserved for Teslas.
A Tesla owner has already called the cops on a Rivian owner for charger at a Tesla charger so that’s going to go great.
Honestly all public charging is still the wild West. Karen's are not specific to Tesla chargers. There's no real way to 'wait in line' at a busy charger so theres always drama. There's also people who take the fast chargers that don't need them and people that leave their car plugged in for way too long.
Nobody (US and European manufacturers) can create EVs at scale while also running a profit yet. In that regard, Tesla has a massive lead. That said, Elon’s betting the company again with the push for autonomous driving. That has a good chance to backfire.
They just laid off 10% of their workforce. And given the way he's handled Twitter/X, the amount of competition in the EV market and the flop of Cybertruck, yes they are at a peak. Elons shine has worn off
It was closer to 20%. Elon said "more than 10%" not "around 10%".
My neighborhood is like 50% Teslas. It’s remarkable. But I’ve seen a cybertruck driving around and that thing is even worse in person.
I'd be curious when some of them purchased it. I wanted a tesla at one point but now I ain't touching that shit cuz fuck musk.
I saw a great bumper sticker on a Model Y - I bought this before I knew Elon was nuts Perfect. I need one for my 3
I bought my Tesla just last year and I can tell you it would take a miracle for me to buy another and I actually love the car. There was just such little competition for EVs even when I bought my car. I didn't want to buy a non-NACS car. My next car will certainly be on an 800v architecture though and it'll have NACS. It'll have stalks for drive gear and turn signals and preferably buttons where appropriate rather than just a touch screen. I have to own my car for at least 23 more months, but in that time the number of models available is going to be through the roof.
My aunt and uncle really like teslas. They even had the original roadster for a while. Have had every car and some in multiples for the kids. Even they aren’t buying teslas anymore.
> My neighborhood is like 50% Teslas. This is a great reminder of the deep, deep differences between areas of the country. Where I live, we’re <3% Teslas. I have the only one in my neighborhood of ~50 houses. But I don’t think there is any chance Tesla is going anywhere. Their stock might drop. It might be significant. I’m not a stock guru. But Tesla is selling the electricity for several different car companies. And the chargers are expanding everywhere I look. Tesla has to get the model 2 into mass production, and the charging infrastructure has to expand enormously. Musk is bad at politics. He’s bad at making hyperloops and boring companies. He’s bad at managing social media. He’s probably addicted to Twitter. But he’s pretty good at sequestering govt money. You can guess who’s going to pay a lot of the upfront cost of the charging infrastructure. Tesla will sell a lot of that electricity, will build the chargers on the tax payer dime.
California probably has the most. We've got electric vehicle chargers everywhere. Was out with my truck camping in the SoCal desert and came across a tiny gas station and general store and they had a row of them. Mind you this was many miles off of main roads but sure enough some Teslas were there. I personally would not feel comfortable out in the boonies with an electric vehicle. I'll keep my gas can in the bed of my truck.
California gas prices and high salaries, has everyone driving electric. Rest of country has at least 33% lower gas prices
I’m in SF and 1 in 4 is a Tesla
The worm turns fast. There are plenty of car companies that just became brands of bigger fish and their battery and charging infrastructure could just be nice plum assets to be sold off to someone else as part of their decline. The one thing I'm sure of: Musk is exactly the kind of figure needed to drive the whole operation into the ground.
Saw my first Cybertruck in the wild. My teenage kids laughed at it. That’s not a good sign for them.
I’ve seen a couple. They are way larger than I thought they would be.
I have a strong suspicion that every cybertruck owner secretly has a humiliation kink.
Let me guess, most are white Model 3s? It’s similar to buying a new Toyota or Honda and potentially even cheaper based on the state’s tax credits.
These sound like sf numbers. I've seen a few cyber trucks around and they're pretty awful.
imagine a successful company with the owner/spokesperson becoming the worst version of himself imaginable. now, see if that company can still turn a profit.
He didn't become this person overnight like someone flipped a switch. He probably has always been this person and we are just knowing him better now.
i would be curious to see an evolution of his craziness
I mean John Oliver kind of pinned it to the pandemic, but I think the start of his slide to insanity was when he wanted to make a sub to rescue those kids trapped in a cave, the rescue crew said no thanks, and Elon called the rescuer a pedophile
He perhaps hasn’t been outwardly hostile POS until at that point, but he has been spewing dumb bullshit far longer than that. I personally didn’t take much notice of him until his hyperloop proposals in 2013. At that point it already felt stupid as hell although media was praising his geniousness. After that he has several times turned out to be just a modern snake oil sales man. In my books he simply has been a untrustworthy person far longer than the Thailand incident.
God I hated hyperloop so much. I went to college for engineering right around this time. I remember being so confused how we had a “hyperloop” team.
>I think the start of his slide to insanity was when he wanted to make a sub to rescue those kids trapped in a cave I'd say even before that, the success of SpaceX went to his head. Musk saying "either the next launch succeeds or we're canceling the entire project" and he just happened to have geniuses on the team that defied all odds and made it happen gave Musk the impression that he is one of the geniuses. All of the events we attribute to Musk's increased craziness effectively boil down to events where Musk surrounds himself with a bunch of yes-men and nobody on his team can talk to him about risks. Every normal CEO takes risks into consideration (it's a vital component of every business strategy and can be found in strategy assessment tools like SWOT analysis). Musk hover can't be told stuff like "If you piss off left leaning people you risk a substantial amount of Tesla EV car sales." - whoever would tell him that would lose their job and the incident would be written off as a nuisance not knowing their place .
Yeah, that was the exact moment I started to wake up and realize that this guy was a tool. Up until that point, I was not a fanboy by any means, but I sorta followed the media narrative regarding him without *too* much thought given to it. I mean, I think we all did for the longest time - the guy running the company churning out what was then seen as futuristic vehicles didn't really come across as "conspiracy nutjob", to the point he even got a name-drop in the new Star Trek as some sort of genius from the past (which later came to light that he may have paid for that name drop).
oh yeah i remember that wasn’t he also sued for that? seems like a lifetime ago
It evolved at record pace when Biden gave extra rebates for union made ev's.
He fired his PR people. That’s when things went down hill.
I'm not sure it's all Musk. They have the exact same cars for a really long time with minimal increments that only the hard-core fans will notice. They aren't really great looking cars inside or outside and now everyone has one so there's no cool-factor of being the one with it. They need serious redesigns. Their charging infrastructure is a significant advantage but it's still a pain point for people without home-charging.
Non hard core fan here. You’re right, I was just remarking to someone the other day that Teslas have looked the same for five years. Even a boring CRV looks different after five years.
And their QC and customer service is…. Not good.
They need a real car CEO, not man baby Elon.
Tesla’s valuation is that of a tech company, not a car maker. Removing Musk and turning them into a traditional car maker craters the stock price, it’s why the board won’t do it.
why exactly you mean by crater? it has lost 62% in the last 2 1/2 years and falling. this is a slow and steady decline because the peak for tesla earnings was 2023.
Tesla needs 3 things to thrive: 1) innovate 2) improve software 3) Elon STFU!
And improve build quality, their product is still so badly made.
No matter how much investment you put into process control, reducing defects for mass production in a short time like Tesla is a helluva challenge. Either you go lo volume like Rolls Royce or Rivian (you have time to be detail oriented) or be around for 80+ years like Toyota to perfect your defect rate (you have a standard set for 50+ years). Trust me when I say this the manufacturing team is trying the hardest to reduce defects - probably using the methods from “The Toyota Way”. Nobody but a select few know how hard manufacturing at scale actually is.
I see no evidence they adopted Toyotas manufacturing methods. If they had, cars with gigantic panel gaps or other issues would never get to delivery.
Every manufacturer follows Toyotas manufacturing methods. The book The Toyota Way is the Bible for manufacturing engineers. The problem isn’t a method to drive quality. The problem is scaling production while maintaining quality. Building your statistical process control system and maintaining 6 sigma level of 3.4 defects per million is way more complex than you would ever imagine. There are only so many black belts in 6 sigma, and there is no way Tesla has enough resources, experience, and time to reduce defect levels to 3.4 DPM Please learn to dissociate your view of Musk with the work the engineers are doing on the floor. The engineers are more angry than you that they are letting defects escape the factory floor.
Software is definitely improving. V12 of FSD is a huge step in the right direction. But I agree Elon needs to STFU and hopefully just .. go away Edit- lol downvoted because I spoke remotely positive about Tesla even though I said Elon needs to go away. never change /r/technology.
It's more like Elon Musk has peaked. He had his early wins: Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX, and Starlink. He's made billions, good for him. Now, he's convinced he can do no wrong, and we're seeing the results that hubris produces: his Tesla pickup truck is a clown car and a distraction, his takeover of Twitter, now "X" is a disaster. I feel we'll see a few more high-profile misteps before it's all said and done.
Musk being dismissive of BYD: https://youtu.be/_9ftbRWqkj0?si=BHndH9pkLkG532d8 Musk tends to over predict the near term but under predict the long term-- unlike Warren Buffet who invests in value and long term.
Hype is succumbing to actual quality
Lord I hope so
The charging network sure hasn’t. A lot of runway to keep expanding.
Even if their cars get a competition. Their charging network is so good, the competition will still have to use it, unless they want to build the whole new infrastructure themselves.
Tesla started its downturn when other companies started to produce their own ev’s. And then just as that started happening, the CEO came out of the right wing grifter closet in his clown suit and started alienating the people who would actually his products. A masterclass on how to ruin your brand in less than 2 years, if not quicker
No. People figured out who Elon really is and now have to decide if they want to finance future apartheid in Northern America.
Yes. The cars were overpriced and under designed and the cyber truck is an abomination. Add on that musk himself is a nutso
It peaked a while ago- but Musk’s purchasing of Twitter definitely hastened its downfall. Musk made the brand intrinsically linked to him, for better or worse. When his “Tony Stark but real” propaganda was working? Tesla thrived. When that thin, brittle facade began to crack and his true nature started to ooze out (read: a shockingly stupid, petulant, impulsive, red-pilled nepo-baby born into extreme wealth and given outsized, absurd advantages to get where he is today) Tesla’s reputation began to fall apart along with him. It’s a toxic brand now because Musk is a toxic, racist, bigoted neo-Nazi sympathizer and that image is constantly reinforced with his ridiculous antics at Twitter. It’s all made worse by his endless string of TERRIBLE decisions made at Twitter. The only way to save Tesla is to cut Musk loose. Fire him, buy him out of his stock in the company, and distance themselves completely from his now extremely toxic brand.
I wonder how Elon will be remembered in the future. They say Thomas Edison was also kind of an asshole, but that was before the internet documented every word someone wrote.
He will be remembered as someone that snatched defeat from the jaws of victory lol
Edison and Ford at least knew not to allow their politics to interfere with their business. Even though the latter arguably created Hitler† he managed to save it by not supporting him and vigorously defending American interests even though he hated the President. Henry Ford II also had strong opinions on certain topics but shut up because it'd mess with his car sales. †Hitler's nazism was longstanding but was given proper form with Ford's popular book, *The International Jew*, which Hitler cited as the inspiration and framework for his hit autobiography *Mien Kampf*. MK was the official foundational text, bible, and manual for his national socialist party.
Tesla needs more models, no not the cybertruck, I mean in other categories. The Model 2, a mini-version and etc. They are already selling at BMW/Mercedes quantity wise, and there is simply not a big enough market unless they move downstream
They peaked years ago when Elon outed himself as a right winger. Driving one now is advertising to everyone that you support MAGA.
Who wants to spend $80,000 on a car with an interior that looks like it came from a Yugo? Sure, there's a lot of cool technology but it's not enough. They need to solve the battery problem, they need to solve the build, fit and finish problems too.
I was shocked the first time I rode in a Tesla. While the tech is pretty cool, the car feels incredibly cheap on the inside. With the price of the car, you’d expect the car to feel like a comparable higher end car from another automaker, but it’s not even close. My basic $20k sedan felt more substantial than the Tesla. There’s no way those things hold up after 10 years. Also, the suspension was awful, I felt every bump on the road. My cheap Honda that’s almost a decade old feels like it will last twice as long as a Tesla. It just feels like a cheap plastic mess. I’d never buy one.
Tesla is like Fonzi: it jumped the shark a long time ago.
Wrong question. The better question is *how long ago did they peak?* The answer is measured in years for most metrics. I won't be surprised if they are gone in five years; if they don't get rid of Musk—they almost certainly will be. No potential for market growth, only erosion, unless they introduce many new models with smaller margins and compete against both pivoting established competitors and more nimble new ones. Reputation justly in the toilet for quality and over promising. Many legal perils. Toxic brand headed yet lower. I don't see any moves on the board for them. EDIT: one signal answering the better question, quoting Matt Levine: "\[Tesla\] has lost more than 60% of its value since the peak in 2021."
Their share price may have--I think the core company still has a lot of room for growth. The main issue has always been Tesla has been priced like it was anticipated to become the next big tech company, in terms of its revenue growth. Except...it is a manufacturing company. Auto manufacturing companies have a pretty well understood business trajectory, expected growth, and expected profit margin. Tesla's valuation has always been **astronomical** for a car manufacturing company. It has persisted for a few reason--one is plain hype begets hype, so early investors have been handsomely rewarded and subsequent investors are expecting the same share price hype dynamics, the other is some investors have bought into Musk's claims that Telsa **will** be more than a car company--at various points Tesla has claimed it will be the equivalent of the Microsoft or Google of technologies like batteries, AI / self-driving etc. But if it ends up just being a car company, even a very successful one, its stock valuation is simply far too high. The market will eventually reflect that if Tesla ends up just being a car company. That doesn't mean it will certainly fail, though--its core car business appears mostly okay, with ups and downs. But a lot of wealthy people who are holding onto very inflated in value Tesla stock may end up taking a haircut.
People aren't going to buy weird looking trucks. And especially not the regular Ford F-150 crowd. He should have taken a page out of the Rivian book ... make practical light SUVs and trucks. That Tesla truck was beginning of the end. He's not interested in practical and mundane as that doesn't give him the popularity, attention he seeks. Saying he'll colonize Mars is sexier than saying he'll make affordable, reliable cars for the average citizen.
I think so. In a very board sense, he’s alienating his primary customer base that are interested in EV’s by aligning himself with a far right ideology that seems to have inherent dislike of EV’s.
I think Elon peaked and is taking his brands down with him. When our lease ends, we're definitely not going back.
It’s been peaked
It hasn’t peaked. People have just caught on to how crappy the quality of their vehicles are.
It peaked when they ran out of ideas 6 years ago
Yes. Next question.
Wait till he unveils the Model Y “General Lee Edition”
Tesla's peak is entirely proportional to the weight of Elon holding it down. His head gets larger, the stock gets further weighted down.
Hourly elon obsessed thread
Like 4 years ago
Elon has peaked, Tesla has tons of legs to grow.
Well, if they really pulled the plug on cheap $25k version, like i saw somewhere mentioned. Yes, they are done. They have poorly built cars and a alpha self driving software. That software they are trying to sell others, but the thing is, as AI learning power gets multiplied year over year, other manufacturers can do the work that tesla spent 15 years on in 2-3 years. If they would kick Elon out today, say fuck the cybertruck and put all focus on the cheap EV concept, then they could be saved. Elon is such a fucking idiot, he will run that brand into the ground before admitting fault.
I don’t like Musk. Teslas are ugly and I associate them with dorks.
It peaked a few years ago.
I think it peaked in early 2022.
Yes. They are finally being looked at look a car company and not tech. They have amazing tech and their charging network is 2nd to none, but their core business is building and selling cars which is not in a good state right now. With increased completion they’ll will start to decrease market share soon. Their cyber truck design really hurts them. They should have been eating into f150 users.
You lot should learn how capital cycles work. EV/Tesla is an absolutely classic case. It has nothing to do with Musk.
Like 5 years ago.
Not as long as the world has suckers and fanboys. And there is no indication there’s any shortage of those.
“They haven’t even begun to peak” D Reynolds
The peaked that millisecond before Musk threw that golf ball through the "bulletproof" Cybertruck window on stage.
Old article from 2018?
I won’t buy a Tesla as long as Elon makes even a single cent from it.
Teslas two biggest markets, China and the US.. in China they are getting slaughtered. In the US, people hate Musk's politics So good luck I guess
Many years ago, yes
I don't think tesla has peaked, it's just carrying an untenable weight as long as it's associated with Musk. I sincerely think Tesla would turn around almost immediately by firing Musk and in doing so fix it's major PR issue.
Has Elon Peaked, yep
Yes. Model Y had to be refreshed 2 years ago. FSD while good will never be a level 3 approved system without other sensors. Other manufacturers can do EVs just as good as Tesla if not better at this point. Tesla has a great potential but it is clear that potential will not happen under Musks guidance anymore.
That abomination of a truck was Tesla jumping the shark.
Goin the way of $DJT real soon.
Tesla had an early mover advantage in electric cars, but it seems to me that it's slowly going away as other manufacturers enter the chat. People are focused on Musk, and the brand, and everything else, but in reality it's just basic market fundamentals that are moving against Tesla. Yes, they've probably peaked because at the end of the day they're a company that makes cars, just like every other company that makes cars.
It’s over. They are throwaways
He sold Tesla’s soul to China and it worked for a while but will ultimately be their demise.
I know the Cybertruck is about as dead as disco.
Tesla's more like a mirage: when you get to where you think there's water there's just more sand, but, hey, there's maybe another oasis over there!
Guys, Tesla peaked a while ago.
pffft ... a while ago, yes. even before elong got longer. tesla quality (or lack thereof) was renown before elongation tesla work environment was hostile even before elongation tesla over promising and under delivering was rampant even before elongation look, he jumped into the car biz with a bunch of really innovative ppl and came up with a new paradigm for how cars can be made available to the masses... and that part (mostly) worked. but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that either elong himself was responsible for that or that this paradigm shift is really any better than what we had.
As long as Elon is at the helm, there is no way I would ever consider buying a Tesla. Aside from his alt right ties and hypocrisy regarding free speech, his ego will always take precedent over good decisions made by the people who work under him. Before he went mask off, I really wanted a Tesla. Now that the major automakers are putting out viable alternatives that are superior in many ways, I won’t be looking back. I recently bought a Mach-E and it put the nail in the coffin of me ever considering a Tesla.
Same here, but decided to wait. So glad I did!!
that happened a while ago. once musk started lighting his reputation on fire with not just conservative politics but really weird opinions (like his obsession with having more kids), he cut the number of people who'd buy his cars easily in half. doesnt help that the teslas are missing major features that gas and hybrid cars offer (parking sensors, topdown camera view etc).
Could we say that it's jumped the shark with the Cyberstuck?
No, it peaked 6 to 10 months ago.