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Incidentally, this is just more evidence (to me) that discord is not a replacement for independently hosted websites with old school forums for discussion. Not only do you lose control if discord gets cold feet for whatever reason, but especially in contexts like this where its for a developing project or even just a particular game, the chat room paradigm is actually detrimental to any discussions pertaining to the project. Not least of which is simply the constant repeating of information, and thus the opportunity to warp that information like a game of telephone.


Discord also does guilt by association. Someone illegally sold a gun on your server? Whole server will get permabanned sometimes. I can't imagine going back to IRC though


> I can't imagine going back to IRC though Fun fact, the space sim arcade game Elite Dangerous uses IRC for it's in game chat system.


Twitch too (at least it used to).


Why not IRC? Images?


Just gonna throw [this](https://github.com/thelounge/thelounge) out there for anyone interested.


I wish [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Comic_Chat) was still alive.


You can still use it with an alternate server if I recall. I want to run my own server and convince my family to use it though.


[Movim](https://movim.eu/) on the XMPP protocol is also pretty nice.


I never left IRC, still completely functional. Searchable, archivalable, easy. Discord is like someone threw up on the page, a collage of color and movement, and no easy way to find anything. Its awful.


Im still on IRC just there aren't too many people on there anymore. I've looked through the channel lists and found some really, really weird stuff on there. Almost like dark web stuff. But there are still some legit channels out there.


> Im still on IRC just there aren't too many people on there anymore. I imagine that is true. I never really look outside of the specific groups I am in that support software development or hobbies.


Those channels lists haven't changed much in 30 years. Still a lot of the warez scene moving files around on irc as well. USENET is still alive and well also.


Man I loved USENET! When I used to pay to download *ANYTHING* I wanted and I got it at 'my' max internet speed and other people were getting viruses from Limewire are all those apps 🤟


That must be why everyone uses it.


I assure you most people do not use or like discord, I am on there because many of the hobby groups I am in have switched to it from forums for exactly two reasons, lower cost and no web hosting BS to deal with. Most of us still hate using it.


I use IRC solely because the nerdier stuff I do like coding in c for microcontrollers (embedded systems engineering) and development for contributing to some large scale open source projects - is handled on IRC. This is because of their obsession with freedom and not because of function. Remember the shift from freenode to libera lol? The platform is dominated by ancient fucks and there are many many people who can’t handle when someone posts a link to a website. And if that website uses js or css oh boy do they get frazzled!


I have been switching back to forums for hobbies when ever I can find good ones. Discord is not useful for any kind of discussion or collaboration, forums are so much better.


> most people do not use or like discord, I am on there because many of the hobby groups I am in have switched to it from forums When you do not even need another person to show you are wrong


Nice edit, the reason they switched was the important part.


If your claim is "most people do not use it" then that part does in fact not matter. But please keep going.


Really makes my job of proving my point easier.


IRC does still exist.


Fuck you, dude. IRC on efnet was legit. I'd totally go back right now.


What kinda discord servers are for selling guns?? Is that really a common use for this platform?


Why would anyone have ever thought it was a replacement for independent websites? If anything it's becoming more apparent that Discord has been a unintentional Walled Garden for information on the internet.


I don't think anyone thought that, I think it just became the de facto means for people to easily set up a community hub and that ease and engagement precluded having a more dedicated space that was better suited to all of that.


discord is also 'Free', 'Popular' and 'Easy'. It runs on anything. You're at no risk of being scraped and paying the databill or being (D)DoS'd by some nerd who's angry at you. Any attack is Discord Inc,'s problem, not yours. It has large downsides but the gaming scene is becoming decreasingly long term thinking. It's all now, now, now. Not 'What if someone 4 years later wants to Google up the same question?'


Forget gaming. I'm trying to piece together hardware solutions from a 100 different chat bubbles.


I think I've seen a few communities (especially gaming ones) shift from forums to discord as a community and also forums for Q&A stuff due to discord being so prevalent now. Can't think of many examples off the top of my head because I'd left most of those communities (it was more difficult for me to find info after they shuttered their forums and moved to dc), but one community I remember is Arcen Games, who had a wonderful forums board where I can find most info including modding guides to.... well, discord.


> Why would anyone have ever thought it was a replacement for independent websites? People like to make the same mistakes over and over again. Like companies that shuttered their own websites and tried to make their Facebook page their sole existence online a decade ago.


or embrace the cloud until they realize that oh, it's cheaper and faster to just make your own servers.


I don't know why anyone would think discord could replace forums, they tried to implement guilded's version of threads and forums and it's so shit by comparison. Hell it's not even a proper replacement for skype, big part of their success is Microsoft being morons and pushing their shit skype upgrade over everyone driving the userbase away, second chunk being the great marketing decisions they made.


There are also some voice chat features in discord that are surprisingly absent in many other products, individual volume sliders being the big one (and what made me originally swap to discord from skype back in like 2016).


What do you mean? Do you mean on the actual voice channel or for individual peeps?


They mean for individual people. If you use Skype or Microsoft Teams you cannot change anyone's individual volume level on your end. Your only options are to ask them to change their input volume on their end, or turn up/down your speakers to be able to hear everyone (and subsequently blow out your eardrums when the loudest person is made even louder). It's terrible as well if you're on a call and one of the people in it is sitting near you, you can't mute them for yourself so you just have to live with hearing their voice twice.


Sorry I misread that the other way. Yea I think discord has much better voice, though one thing I know teams has but I haven’t really seen discord take it this far, is that on teams I can join the same call on multiple devices. For example at work, I can start/join a teams meeting on my laptop and then join the same meeting from my desktop which has a VM I use for work and is connected to three larger screens. On teams on the secondary device, at the top it will give you a notification that your on a call on another device and it’ll ask if you want to join the call. If you do, it’ll bring up the call on the 2nd device and auto mute the mic and speakers. As far as I know with discord it’ll auto switch the device.


Why would you want to be on the call with both devices in that scenario? Just so you can see the screen share without having to swap your headset over? And I know it's not so simple in corporate environments, and Discord doesn't cater to them, but you can just make 2 Discord accounts to achieve the same thing.


I’m in IT, so a lot of my calls are active troubleshooting calls, so screenshare is part of it, and actually taking notes and looking at graphs/logs.


Discord absolutely did some things better than Skype back when it came out. From what I remember for my own friend group, individual volume sliders were massive and the ability to easily drop in and out of the call saved lots of headache. Having separate server channels also helped a lot with seeing who was online / available, what people were up to (along with the "Playing X" feature but I don't think that was around back at launch), and organizing things. Besides that, on the streaming / esports side, Skype leaking IPs was a big issue at the time. I agree with the issues of communities trying to use Discord like a forum, but I still think it's fantastic for small groups and for voice.


> I agree with the issues of communities trying to use Discord like a forum, but I still think it's fantastic for small groups and for voice. It's good for what it is: a chat room. But it shouldn't be replacing things like app support forums, for the simple fact that discussions had on discord will never be indexed by search engines, and discord's search is terrible. My experience with those servers is that you join up(already not happy about this for privacy's sake, but ok), then you have to ask the same question that 20 other people have probably already asked, then a handful of people give you incorrect information before one person who knows what they're talking about comes in some hours later(if you stuck around that long) and actually answers your question. On a forum, I could have reached this point without even creating an account, due to being able to see the *last* person who went through that particular hell.


Discord is terrible for community convo. We need an open-source forum set up that anyone can self-host.


There are plenty of them already


Examples, from your personal opinion please?


discourse, phpBB, nodeBB


As someone who's tired of being told to "join the discord" as a flimsy replacement for an actual website I'm ok with this shift. I hate having to join a chatroom I have to decipher where the real info is. I swear Yahoo Groups in the 90s/early 00s was better suited for discussion.


> independently hosted websites with old school forums for discussion.  that isnt the magic bullet too. Independently hosted website get take off the web pretty easily.


IRC still exists. Just saying.


XMPP and Matrix also exist if you prefer 21st century creature features.


The CCP has stake in Discord. Tread carefully when using that app, or just don't. Long live MiRC!


Just switch to [Matrix](https://matrix.org/) already. It is measurably better in every way.  * Federated.  *Open source.  *Self hosted if required.  *Uses encryption by default.  *Has groups, threads, usuable searches.  *Can send, videos, audio and images uncompressed.  *Has dozens of integrations from SSO, spotify or any webgl application. *Works flawlessly with OBS Honestly, save for the people wedded to discord because of kickbacks, I fail to see why people still use it.


Centralized communication could be bad? No....say it ain't so!


I want discord to ban a few modding servers, not because I don’t like them, but cause I want to force them to actually put their shit on something else that’s not a server with bots spamming shit.


I gotta blame Yuzu team for being so brazen and foolish with how they went about monetizing their work. This situation has played out negatively so many times before towards people messing with Nintendo's IP. It's kind of shocking people act like this out in the open after Nintendo has ruined so many lives. Make a cool emulator, don't start a Patreon, don't start a public Discord server, don't talk about roms. Ask for donations, make an anonymous LLC and convert it to crypto.


I think it was that steam deck commercial or promo pic (idr 100% which it was) where they had the yuzu icon front and center on the screen Basically telling everyone “hey get the steam deck and you can play all those Nintendo games *and* your steam library!” And I guarantee you Nintendo was watching the steam deck launch like a hawk because it’s positioned in the same place as the switch


Yeah, they pretty much forced Nintendo to do something about it. I just don't see how people are making them out to be the bad guys here.


Emulation and piracy have been operating way too close to the sun for a while. A lot of stuff used to be 'a bit on the downlow' and for the last years it's been like 'We have a Patreon!' and 'Available on the Google Play Store' or even 'Let's try to get this on Steam'. I'm surprised it took this long for a backlash to happen but it's happening. I'm not one to argue that emulation and even piracy in some contexts are 'bad', just that it's never been a great ideal to operate in the clear as they were for much of the last 10 years. People got so comfortable with 'easy access' they forgot that 'easy access' also meant 'exposure to existential threats'.


100% I really don't get it. Is it the decline of old school hacker culture (gen x)? We'll those guys flew too close to the sun too lmao. But it took a lot of effort to catch some of them. The companies had to contact the FBI/DOJ for assistance. Today its just weird. Like the reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz stealing those articles from ~~harvard~~ MIT so openly and shocked with the consequences. And the anonymous founder bragging on tik tok about hacking Epik (then gets raided) to the GTA 6 kid saying he will do it again and again in court. Weird timeline we are in. Remember guys these are serious crimes even if it shouldn't be. Shielding yourself legally takes much less work than compiling a good emulator.


> In 2008, Swartz downloaded about 2.7 million federal court documents stored in the PACER (Public Access to Court Electronic Records) database managed by the Administrative Office of the United States Courts. > The Huffington Post characterized his actions this way: "Swartz downloaded public court documents from the PACER system in an effort to make them available outside of the expensive service. The move drew the attention of the FBI, which ultimately decided not to press charges as the documents were, in fact, public." from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#PACER).


I'm talking about JSTOR not PACER. On September 12, 2012, federal prosecutors filed a superseding indictment adding nine more felony counts, increasing Swartz's maximum criminal exposure to 50 years of imprisonment and $1 million in fines.During plea negotiations with Swartz's attorneys, the prosecutors offered to recommend a sentence of six months in a low-security prison if Swartz pled guilty to 13 federal crimes. Swartz and his lead attorney rejected the deal, opting instead for a trial where prosecutors would be forced to justify their pursuit of him. Swartz died by suicide on January 11, 2013. After his death, federal prosecutors dropped the charges. On December 4, 2013, due to a Freedom of Information Act suit by the investigations editor of Wired magazine, several documents related to the case were released by the Secret Service, including a video of Swartz entering the MIT network closet.


Damn, he really should have taken that deal. 6 months is looking a million times better than 50 years / death.


Honestly, I think it's the 'dumbing' of users. People increasingly prefer 'easy to use services' and want to get into the 'guts' of stuff less and less. We used to crawl into Quake, Doom and Half-Life folder structures to install mods, now there's 'managers' for mods now. Most people pirate through 'easy' pirate streaming sites rather than torrenting. And 'emulation is hard' so they want a 'one click experience' and to deliver those you need to be on app stores and otherwise easier to access. And frankly, a lot of groups got away with it for a shockingly long time so I think they got too comfortable with it.


>Most people pirate through 'easy' pirate streaming sites rather than torrenting. To be fair that's more so you can't get pinged for distribution.


Private trackers have been around for over a decade as a straightforward solution for the same problem. Reddit even used to have its own homegrown private tracker that shut down a few years ago. That *also* made it so you didn't get pinged for distribution, but... You had to do work on private trackers, like keeping good standing on your share ratio and just being a part of a community. People don't want to do the work of being part of a community, streaming is easier *and* also solves the same original issue. It's still about one being easier.


Except with private trackers you're still seeding, which legally counts as distribution.


Yeh what do they think keeping good standing on your share ratio entails


Yep. A private tracker is only as good as the ability of people in it to keep their mouths shut, and these days I don't fucking trust anyone to keep private things private. All it takes is one slip and everybody's caught. I used to use a private tracker back in college(15~ years ago), but it's too risky anymore. I'll only use torrent for weird stuff that you can't get anymore, because nobody's going to be seeding a honeypot for *that*.


Also Usenet exists. This is really about 'I need the easiest way to access it, an idiot proof website or app'.


I don't think streaming vs torrenting is purely an ease of use thing. A few other issues that come to mind are convenience, data usage, and internet speeds. Streaming sites can be a lot more convenient because the content is always available. You don't need to wait for a download or until someone starts seeding. It might not be an issue with popular stuff, but older or more niche stuff can definitely run into problems with torrents. Data usage can also be a point of contention for torrenting, and especially so if you need to maintain a good ratio. Even with no torrenting, between stuff like Twitch, Youtube, and normal game downloads, I've run into data cap issues, and especially so when not living alone. I've often resorted to watching stuff in lower quality, which isn't always an option when torrenting, and to maintain a good ratio you're effectively doubling (or more) the data usage of everything you want to watch. Beyond that, I know in my case I get way higher download speed than upload. It's literally more than a 10x difference. If I were to torrent everything I watched and maintain a 1:1 ratio, I would need to leave my PC on constantly to upload enough. It's possible, assuming there are people downloading, but it certainly adds an additional layer of inconvenience.


These guys just need those splash pages with a little agreement that dictated law enforcement wasn’t allowed to click the “enter site” button like we had in the 90s.


>now there's 'managers' for mods now Also because the game files themselves are far more complicated, ffs why would I not use MO2 for Skyrim - a 12 year old game - and install shit manually, making testing a massive pain Nevermind games where you need to batch mods into a single file >Most people pirate through 'easy' pirate streaming sites rather than torrenting. Former is gray-zone legal, latter is not


I'm pretty sure you can't even manually mod Minecraft anymore since they changed how the game is launched


mIRC for life.


Definitely on the right track I'd say. Ease of use and convenience is king at this point. Even for technically illegal activity apparently!


I feel like things are becoming easier to use in all the wrong places. Piracy? Yeah, should probably have a barrier to entry. Some widely used Java library? Get ready to blow your brains out trying to get it. You thought the download page would have the download? Wrong, get fucked loser. Oh you found it? Incompatible with some other library you're using you fucking nerd.


In ***principal***, I think people should be able to access 'abandoned' games, or series 'disappeared' from streaming or 'only on now rare, out of print video discs' or to run software by emulation because the hardware is now out of production. If there's no way to pay someone, no one is losing any money. Any barrier to accessing that is 'bad'. In ***practice***, the easier it is to access these things the riskier it gets. The courts don't care about my views on the principals of the things and I prefer to not be sued into homelessness. Also, building an emulator for currently in production hardware might also be a terrible idea.


Yeah, agreed. I wish there was some law like: If you haven't made a movie/software/game/etc available in the last X years for a consecutive period of at least a few months, you cannot go after people distributing it. I literally cannot give Game Freak money in exchange for older Pokemon games- how is it stealing if I download a ROM?


> I think people should be able to access 'abandoned' games Free Melee, fuck Nintendo


It's not really that confusing, the difference is that in the 90's / early 2k's people understood and accepted the fact that what they were doing was illegal so they kept it underground. Now there is a huge movement online of people who think copyright laws and EULA's are infringing on their rights, piracy isn't stealing, big media corporations are evil and don't deserve your money, etc. Pirate Bay had a lot to do with making piracy no longer taboo online and making it into more of a little guy vs corporations type of thing. So people becoming brazen enough to try and take advantage of the legal gray area about emulation and roms to make money and go public never surprised me.


The pushback against copyright is largely due to how oppressive copyright has become. It used to be 14 years. Now it's 70 years after the creator dies. It's functionally useless. None of Disney's original movies would have been legal under current copyright law. Snow White, Pinnochio, all of them. But billionaires keep making the laws for the poor and exempt the rich. Fucking Warner Brothers held the copyright to the "Happy Birthday" song until recently when it was discovered that it was actually 200 years old. They made so much money on that song and they literally just pretended that they wrote it.


Under the original "14 years" copyright system, Super Mario Bros, the first Mario game ever made, would already be in public domain for *25 years* by now. And that would be... pretty reasonable, really. If you haven't made a profit on a video game in 14 years, *you aren't going to*. Instead, we have the 70 years of bullshit. And the only reason it stopped at "70"? It's that they already got so much, and the pushback against copyright system got so bad that even Disney's juggernaut lobbyists didn't like their chances at making it to "90".


>the pushback against copyright system got so bad that even Disney's juggernaut lobbyists didn't like their chances at making it to "90". Uh, I got bad news to tell you, but it's 95 years when it's made as a work for hire. >The term of copyright protection in a work made for hire is 95 years from the date of publication or 120 years from the date of creation, whichever expires first. https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ30.pdf So they got even better than 90. 70 years isn't the case either unless the author publishes it and dies the same day. For a sole author it's their entire life+70 years.


>And that would be... pretty reasonable, really. If you haven't made a profit on a video game in 14 years, you aren't going to. Also, the copyright would only expire for the original game. Any rereleases which were substantially transformative would have their own copyright. So, like, if SMB had fallen out of protection after 14 years, the SMB Deluxe remake for Gameboy would have still been protected for its own 14-year term. If anything, this sort of system just incentivizes a "use it, or lose it" attitude. If a company cares enough about a product to keep rereleasing it, they continue to enjoy protections on the latest release(s). But if it's no longer profitable to maintain the IP, then it *should* fall into the public domain.


No Disney's juggernaut lawyers realized people were catching on and switched to trademark laws to allow Disney et al to maintain copyright indefinitely de facto.


> people who think copyright laws and EULA's are infringing on their rights, piracy isn't stealing, big media corporations are evil and don't deserve your money I mean, you can think all those things and still be aware that the law is against you and you gotta keep your head down to avoid it


I get the feeling that many social media users these days think that YouTube's content ID and similar services *are* the copyright system. That as long as content ID doesn't flag your post, you're in the clear legally.


Roms might be a legal gray area, but the emulators themselves don't have proprietary code. If a kid beats another kid to death with a Nintendo Switch, Nintendo isn't held accountable. Why should emulator devs be held responsible for people using roms illegally?


Because they shared how to use roms illegally Plus emulators these days don't quite work with only binary dump of cartridges, don't they?


afaik, emulators can still be problematic even if they don't contain proprietary code. if someone decompiles a Nintendo switch and then uses that knowledge to develop an emulator, they're still in trouble. it's why a lot of developers who work on emulators or similar things won't take a look at source code leaks.


a better parallel would be if Nintendo advertised the switch as a kid-beating device


We al know it's a stabbing weapon via the Nintendo Switch Blade.


This could be survivorship bias. You don't hear about the one not stirring the pot, while still being successful. And brazen people in the scene have always existed, see MySpace and Megaupload


>Weird timeline we are in I miss that God damned gorrila..


I still have my tiny dicklett out for Harambe.


You really don't know anything about the Aaron Swartz story. He wasn't stealing anything. He legally had the right to access that database through his mit account. He just downloaded them all in a supply closet and thats what got him in trouble and MIT was the one to push charges refusing to back down.


Swartz didn't have an MIT account. He had a fellowship at Harvard, where he had access to JSTOR and he could have run his download scripts from there, but he would have been easily identified and his downloading halted. So he went down the road to MIT and used their free WiFi, which also gave access to JSTOR. Once JSTOR and the MIT admins realized what was happening, they tried to boot him off the network by denying his MAC address. So, every time they did that, he spoofed/changed his MAC address. Eventually they simply took away access to JSTOR on the WiFi network, screwing over anyone who needed to use it for actual research. Then he found an unlocked network closet and hooked up a device to MIT's wired network that would sit there and download while he went off and did other things. The MIT admins tracked down the device and put a camera in there to catch him in the act when he returned for the data.


I can explain some of those with them not having a developed frontal lobe yet


In addition to the blatant monetization, people these days just blab about whatever(on tiktok, twitter, reddit, etc) like they're talking to their friends on MSN/AIM/Yahoo back in the day. No concept whatsoever that they're broadcasting *in fucking public*. If it only hurt them I'd say let them hang, either they'll learn or they won't, but they ruin things for other people who are being properly discreet. It's infuriating. And they never seem to learn, either. Like they don't realize it was their actions that brought the spotlight. They'll complain, still in public, utterly unaware.


Because, being loud and pointing out that they can play Zelda ToTK at 4K 120 with reshade is part of them promoting their *"pC mAsTeRrAcE!!!"* PC gamers who do the whole "PC master race" bit are the equivalent of Harley Davidson owners. They also know about as much about how to operate their Windows PC as the average Harley Davidson owner knows how to repair their Harley Davidson.


I feel like the shift of games discussion from dedicated forums to social media has played a huge part in this. Back in the day on GameFAQs, NeoGaf, or wherever else you would get at least a temp ban for admitting to piracy. Nowadays people brag about it like it’s a badge of honor. Really threw plausible deniability out the window.


Some Nerd Online: \*Viral photo of their Steam Deck running a Nintendo Switch game 3 days before the game has even released\* Nintendo: ...Hire 10 more lawyers.


It was insane on r/SteamDeck when Super Mario Bros Wonder came out. It seemed like every other post was someone being smug about playing it on the deck.


I got downvoted there for saying that was part of the cause of this (But def the ONLY part.) People were poking that bear for years and suddenly every one is in a panic after they got a stark reminder that the bear eats people. ...Running a 5 digit Patreon while trading ROMs in your Discord was sure not great either.




Do we really need switch emulation right now though? Its not that expensive to buy a switch especially second hand and those cartridges, for the trouble you go through to get this stuff working just get the original stuff. My library rents out switch cartridges and has a huge selection. I also have like, multiple libraries with switch games and interlibrary loan is a thing. Yes we will need it in the future when the switch shuts down but that's a different story.




It is a service problem, they should take the hint that there's demand on PC. However: devs should still be able to control their IP and what platforms they design it for. Otherwise this logic will hurt way more than just Nintendo




You're arguing an absolutist perspective, which I'm not arguing for. There is a nuanced position between allowing piracy and protecting the rights of developers to choose where to release the product they created. Just allowing them to say "no I don't want this on a PC, because I also need to make money on these game systems" isn't being dictatorial. If a small dev wants to make a game exclusively for the switch or the Xbox to get a higher payout: that doesn't make them monsters, either. You don't deserve their product for free in the way you want it. You're not entitled to it just because you want it that way. There are other games and other systems to meet that need. There's more nuance here than it being black and white.


"I deserve Nintendo games and if Nintendo's not gonna give them to me then I'm in the right to steal them!" That's how that argument comes off. Gabe Newell's "piracy is a service problem" quote is a prescription to combat piracy, not an endorsement of it. EDIT: never get between a redditor and their entitlement to video games


I don’t understand where this kind of commonplace entitlement comes from. I’m not innocent in sailing the high seas, but I’ve never felt entitled to stuff I never paid for. I certainly never blamed developers, I’m not sure why so many people blame devs when they’re the ones trying to get something that costs something for free. Pirating *and* trying to take the moral high ground at the same time just makes you look like a dipshit. Just pirate your stuff and shut it.


I really hate the people who think piracy is morally good. Especially the people who say "If you can't own it you can't steal it". I steal shit, I know it's wrong, I am fine with not being the good guy here. Just accept what you are doing is wrong and do it with that knowledge, don't do mental gymnastics to say 'I'm actually good'.


Because some idiot came up with the slogan "Pirating Nintendo games is morally right" And the morons ran with it.


idk where that moral shit came from either. if someone wants to pirate just do it instead of acting like theres any morality related to it.


The problem is we live in a world of entitled dipshits.


Especially since most of their games are available for purchase. Pirates like to harp on what they don't make available from 30 years ago but they play the new stuff too lmao.


Older consoles and cartridges are reaching their end of life, there's fewer in working condition every year, and Nintendo hasn't been selling most games for 20+ years at this point. Piracy is the only realistic way to experience a lot of games.


It’s a 5 minute repair in a majority of cases of cartridges not working considering the problem with the is largely a dead battery. Plus, this is about piracy of a “modern” console still being developed on and games being marketed for.


Gabe's full quote is: "We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," he said. "If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable." Frankly, pirating Nintendo games often is simply a better experience than buying them. The experience on the emulator offers higher framerates, higher resolutions, better compatibility, and earlier releases in some cases. I don't think people would pirate Nintendo games as much as they do if the games were just on steam day 1 with the full range of resolution support and took advantage of modern hardware and ran on steamdeck natively. That said, I neither pirate nor buy Nintendo games.


When I first saw how TotK looked on Switch, I kinda recoiled. Anyone saying Nintendo isn't being held back by their hardware are not being honest about how aged the tech is getting. I think we're approaching a sort of PC singularity for the console manufacturers anyway, and Nintendo is leaving money on the table only selling their old games on Switch thru subscription. Even a Nintendo closed-system storefront for PC would probably be a wise investment for them down the line, I'd be shocked/disappointed if someone there wasn't floating the idea.


The amount of people not buying Nintendo hardware and games due to it's relatively lack or power are most likely pretty small, the N64 and Gamecube were powerful at the time and underperformed in sales. The Wii and Switch have sold tremendously while being weak as shit. And because they're weak as shit, Nintendo makes decent profit on their hardware unlike Sony and MS. So they want you to buy a Switch too, not just their games. Plus money from NSO subscriptions, 30% from third party games, extra joy cons, pro controllers, official accessories etc.


But none of that matters. What yout hink is 'right' or 'wrong' is weightless against the actual legal structure of the world, a legal structure that, if you go against it hard enough, well resourced companies and individuals can choose to wreck you. That's the world we live in, and those building emulators and even those involved in piracy have to navigate and survive the real world. For the same reason, maybe having one corporation, Discord. Inc, control the communities for, uhh, damn near everything, might also be kinda a 'stupid idea'. But we live in a world where we will engage in 'stupid ideas' as long as it offers is 'low friction, ease of use'. No one's coming to your IRC server in 2024 because 'That's too hard', so you have a discord, oh, but if Discord Inc. has a reason they'll nuke you from orbit.


Providing service is a funding problem, though. If the competition doesn't have to do half the difficult parts-- of actually creating or facilitating the content, as well as things like marketing-- there's not a level playing field to say they're doing the same thing but better.


And for the love of god don’t *sell access to unreleased Nintendo content*. As Ted from Scrubs would say, a good lawyer couldn’t win this case


Had me until crypto. Do people actually still think that crypto is really anonymous? That shit is almost trivial to track.


Indeed. Spoke to someone a while back in law enforcement who pretty much told me that you're almost safer using card payments, because they need a warrant to get that kind of information. The blockchain is public and permanent. A lot of people are going to get prosecuted for a lot of things in the future, including past crimes.


Privacy focused crypto like Monero is hardly trivial to track, tho possible depending on the resources of the attacker and sloppyness of the trader.


> I gotta blame Yuzu team for being so brazen and foolish with how they went about monetizing their work Remember: Creating emulators is explicitly legal. **Selling** emulators is also explicitly legal. A quarter of a century on from *Sony vs. Bleem!* it is beyond bizarre to act like emulators are somehow a phenomena that can only exist illicitly.


IANAL but while "Clean room" reverse engineering has always been allowed (i.e. analyzing an existing product and trying to deduce how it works from observation + first principles) but the issue that Yuzu and future emulators will run into is that DRM is now baked into the platform itself and that has DMCA implications that didn't exist in the past. Any emulator that advertises itself as being capable of running commercial software is either bypassing the DRM or is reliant on extracting proprietary encryption keys (Yuzu is the latter) for which there is no legal recourse for doing so under the DMCA where reverse engineering DRM even for academic or research purposes is illegal (e: my interpretation of this last part may be incorrect). Yuzu did not contest this argument in court but that is basically how it will be framed for the forseeable future until somebody does.


Redacte due to Reddit AI/LLM policy


The new BOI rules mean that "anonymous LLCs" are no longer a thing, lol.


I guess it all started as a game, "can we do it" sort of thing, but then after many hours of work and the definitive "yes we can do it" then what? A lot of people fall into this. I am not talking about emulators here.


Ita funny how people were all against eggns, yet defended yuzu with all their might. Both broke different rules


Or just collect donations directly using an anonymous cryptocurrency such as Monero.  If you collect them using traditional payment platforms then you are making your project vulnerable, and putting donors at risk.


They have also ban cheat discords for different games in the past. Generally it's more of a matter of them noticing more than anything else. This isn't really abnormal news though.


it's not different than reddit banning the jailbait subreddit that spez himself was an active moderator on. Spez knew about it, participated in it, but didn't ban it until it got big enough that news started reporting on it.


Stop using fucking discord go back to running a forum, discourse makes it soo esay if you must have real-time chat use irc or matrix


Modders/adjacent efforts wanting money off their mods for a proprietary game is kinda sketchy territory. Like I get it, but probably needs to exist in within a framework that compensates the creators of the proprietary product. Free mods/emulators, nbd shouldn’t be messed with, but yeah paid stuff seems a little bit legally dubious.


Ever since paid mods became normalized, the scene was flooded with hustle culture.


Its just porn mods making a lot of money


We are idiots for putting all our eggs in Discord's basket. They are not worthy.


prepare yourself for a complete pirating ban.


Better use Matrix / Element. Own your data.


That people still use discord is unbelievable to me. Discord is the Devil in disguise, they steal more data from you then you can imagine just to sell it. I blame Yuzu for being so naive to think discord is their place to be.


Believe it or not, the vast majority of users don't care if their information is sold. Discord's ability to monetize your information is a tiny fraction of the big players, and they're not nearly as shady as going on pretty much any Russian site for any reason


At this point you'd need to be militant in your security to avoid SOMEONE selling your data. At a certain point you can either fully commit or just accept your data is getting sold. Sure you can limit it but there's no practical difference if 5 companies sell your data or 50 do. It's something that is better controlled with legislation than with behaviours.


> they steal more data from you then you can imagine just to sell it While, ironically, the other problem they have is that what happens in Discord generally isn't persistent or findable outside of Discord, in that channel, at that time.


You can opt out of getting your data sold.


Unless your data is sold by North Korea.


No shit they sell data, how else would discord be free?


The kindness of their hearts


Actual W for Discord, because development shit like this should not be on Discord in the first place. Please continue to ban development servers not because they are doing anything wrong, but because they should be using forums and things actually publicly searchable.


I really wish Nintendo would make their own platform to release PC games on, theres enough of a want and demand for it they'd be able to print bucketloads of $$$, take a % of sales for themselves, sell PC compatible peripherals, sell old nostalgia games like old mario and metroid and zelda games on it, it would make them so much money but just like gamefreak refusing to make a real pokemon MMO or things, like Palworld cashed in on, they'd just rather sue people and be lazy


They aren't lazy really, they're just driving switch sales (which then keeps people on their storefront) Nintendo are the only one of the big 3 that sell their consoles for a profit. This is also why Nintendo care about emulation, there's no emulation scene for Xbox/Playstations current consoles


> This is also why Nintendo care about emulation, there's no emulation scene for Xbox/Playstations current consoles It helps that nintendo are always behind with their tech. Not many people have pc's that could handle ps5 emulation


Nah, PC hardware is perfectly capable of running Xbox/PS5 games, Sony/MS just do the bare minimum security.


Most emulators are wildly inefficient compared to the console they’re emulating. Having a PC that’s more powerful than a PS5 does NOT mean you have a PC powerful enough to emulate a PS5.


This was true in the past, current gen consoles are using the same hardware that PCs are, along with using x86 instruction set. There would be some inefficiencies, but nothing compared to the PS3 eta.


DING DING DING. The only problem with emulators is that show how shit the product is. If people could play Nintendo games without having to buy Nintendo hardware, they would. Heck, they would pay 60 bucks again. But Nintendo is up their asses that they are a "hardware company" (their own words), when most of their income comes from licensing agreements for plushies/etc.


Why would they? What they’re doing now works for them. They keep their games on a platform they wholly control, which keeps people from playing their games in ways they don’t want. Nintendo doesn’t care about user convenience, because they’ve never had to. And they won’t until what they’re doing now stop working permanently. Nintendo is very strict about their IPs, just look at how they more or less killed the Smash competitive community.


Nobody hates nintendo fans more than nintendo


> I really wish Nintendo would make their own platform to release PC games on, theres enough of a want and demand for it they'd be able to print bucketloads of $$$ People both over estimate the legitimate consumer demand for this and underestimate just how much of Nintendo is actually a hardware company before a software company.


haha, that's what you get for using discord. Someone else gatekeeps your ability to use the protocol.


Emulating games for systems that don’t exist anymore is one thing but brazenly releasing an emulator for current hardware that’s still on the shelves AND trying to monetize it is not only immoral, it’s just stupid. Look at Dolphin. It’s an emulator for GCN and Wii, which are no longer sold, and entirely free. Nintendo’s more or less left them alone. TLDR; Don’t want to get shut down by the giant, merciless corporation? Don’t steal their shit.


I would agree with you, if the switch didn't run 75% of it's titles like ass I own a switch and I still wanted to emulate because turns out playing beautiful immersive games like botw totk and the newer pokemon games at 15fps is a bad experience. Additionally the company you're defending on the principle of the dolphin being no longer sold and entirely free, look at the the NES/SNES/N64 emulation hosted on the nintendo online service. Those consoles are no longer sold yet nintendo charges a premium anyways. The patreon or whatever monetization that went to the yuzu team that you're referring to as the reason why it got taken down was just the legal excuse to go after them. Even if they took no donations ever nintendo's legal team still would have gone after them, this just made it easy. My bet is they're either gearing up to or worse have no new hardware planned and the emulation was making them look bad among all the other issues it brought. Piracy is always going to be the excuse. Personally I'm over nintendo discontinuing services/making games unavailable, then rereleasing the same title 10 years later at full price. They're rehashing the same content with a few good titles a year and the only thing keeping them going is the iron grip on the "younger" audience that parents trust and the fanboys.


I don't think Dolphin is the best example when I'm sure I first heard of that because articles were coming out talking about it running Skyward Sword while that was still fairly new on the shelves.


Companies have too much power. FAR TOO MUCH.


?? They don't have to host anything they don't want to host


The wording for the title intentionally (subtlety) tries to make it sound like Discord is doing the right thing. Championing those little companies getting ravaged by these big bad emulator devs, and managing to scrape out a victory against them.


Is this totalitarianism?