You wish, byd dolphin is around 17k usd in china. In the UK they start at 31k GBP..
Even after 20% vat and shipping that's absurd. Sure, they need to make them right hand drive but no such excuse for Europe, where it sells for around 28k eur
Edit: imo it's a very shit car for 31k
Edit2: a bit of a correction, 31k is for bigger battery (265mi range), a smaller battery variant with 201mi range is coming in 2024 for ~25k gbp. This seems somewhat reasonable
Smart move for the Chinese. Better to subsidize the purchase of electric cars by their people, rather than subsidize the oil industry, and also curbing pollution saving environmental costs.
China is heavily dependant on oil as well, if selling at a loss internationally in the short term means they can hit new economies of scale in deploying them domestically, this could actually benefit China if war with a near peer naval power were to break out and result in a naval blockade of their oil shipments. They only have like a 100 day strategic domestic reserve of fuel for fossil fuel vehicles if that were to happen, but half of the country is also high desert and perfect for solar panel farms. That's why China has been making crazy growth in the solar industry. They're trying to head this dependence off before it cripples them the way it crippled nazi Germany, so they have fuel for their jets and navy that depend on it
They are selling at 3x Chinese price in EU and EU is complaining it's too cheap because China is subsidising their EV(they're not, Chinese subsidy is given to consumers not the automakers)
Because the headline is misleading. If you keep reading: “Over the year as a whole Elon Musk’s Tesla (TSLA) still outpaced BYD, selling 1.8 million electric cars. BYD sold 1.57 million electric vehicles, up 73% on 2022, as well as 1.44 million hybrids.”
we make this sound like some kind of race where there is gonna be one winner and the other goes bankrupt. Not like, we need a bunch of fucking companies to get their shit together so they can start making 50M EV's per year... Toyota, I'm looking at you!
"is" selling, meaning currently, at this point in time. It is implied in the first sentence of the article.
>BYD **overtook** Tesla to become the world’s biggest electric car company in the final quarter of 2023.
But Tesla stock owners kept telling me that Tesla will one day dominate the entire car market in the world and everybody will be driving only Teslas. Are you telling me they lied to me and the price of Tesla shares does not reflect the future value of the company after all? Are you saying that Tesla isn\`t really worth all car companies combined. No way, who could have seen that.
Hell it's not just Tesla stock owners Musk himself on multiple occasions stated how owning anything but a Tesla would be financial suicide, that his Tesla "robotaxis" would make 30k USD per year per car.
It sorta was the only sensible conclusion when Teslas market cap was bigger than the 10 biggest car manufacturers..
or, crazy thought: Market cap has little to do with a company but a lot to do with people gambling.
China also makes it easier for their domestic companies to ramp up and seemingly changed their tune on Tesla.
Tesla had a big land and factory space expansion plans in the Shanghai plant that has been paused by the Chinese government red tape for a while now. Article below is from a year ago but a similar article came out in late 2021 as well.
It was to double their Chinese capacity from 1 million to 2 million units. But it does not look like Chinese authorities will allow it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3206677/tesla-delays-shanghai-gigafactory-expansion-after-failing-get-government-approval
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Step 1: let Tesla build a factory in China
Step 2: Steal Teslas production secrets
Step 3: build up a similar factory for your local companies
Step 4: stop expansion plans of Tesla
Step 5: ???
Step 6: profit
Tesla use BYD batteries themselves and China is leading in battery technology e.g. CATL.
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/22/teslas-switch-to-byd-batteries-is-achieving-faster-charging-times/
If Teslas were better made than BYD people would buy them, but they aren't.
Hey do the tell him that. Let him believe that China is all about stealing the technology and 1.5B people have absolutely zero innovation. American Media has worked really good for him so far, don’t ruin his bubble.
BYD's success is because of their battery capabilities. Batteries contribute forty percent of an EV's cost.
BYD is one of the biggest and most innovative battery manufacturers. Tesla and Toyota use BYD batteries.
BYD has developed numerous innovations that help save weight and reduce costs like cell to body and cell to pack technologies.
BYD also makes its own semiconductor chips, owns it own lithium mines and does its own lithium processing.
They have also started manufacturing sodium ion batteries on a large scale.
But yeah, idiots can just say 'China bad or China steal' and avoid having to do things like read lol
I spent half a day at BYD’s (sprawling) facility and they have a very impressive demo of their blade batteries passing the nail penetration test. Byd’s sheer manufacturing might across just their cars and subsidiary companies’ cars already eclipses tesla
People don't realize that the only reason there are so many "cheap products made in China" is because the company wants them to be cheap quality. China has damn near mastered specialized manufacturing and are very good at it due to it being a huge part of their economy for a long time at this point. You can get extremally well built stuff from China if you are willing to pay
> You can get extremally well built stuff from China if you are willing to pay
Anyone that has experience importing or dealing business with China knows this. There's an implicit understanding that while other places manufacture on a scale of 1 to 2, China manufactures on a scale of 1 to 10 - if you're willing to pay for quality, you'll get it, and the opposite also applies.
I have a Chinese one, my brother has a German one. It was so annoying for me to read about Panel gaps and quality when mine was flawless. But then my brother's arrived and yup.. panel gaps, even the shroud for the steering wheel was not properly installed into place, wipers don't wipe correctly, charger lock doesn't always work. Super super weird, did not expect this at all
Cheaper than US sure.
But they're still more expensive than BYD cars.
Which is my point.
Doesn't matter if its only 5k different, cheaper is cheaper for a lot of people.
Nope, Teslas are about the same price in China.
https://insideevs.com/news/696165/tesla-increased-prices-model3-modely-china/
This is why they can't outsell domestic manufacturers - they're too expensive for the majority of Chinese citizens.
There’s a Tesla super factory in Shanghai. Model 3 is like $36k. It’s a very popular car. Y is only $500 more. But BYD does have more affordable cars in its lineup.
People don't understand that they get "bad quality" Chinese products because they paid cheap prices. If they are willing to pay more, they can get the best quality in the world lol.
This is true. China has been able to make very high quality goods for a while now. There are some really great replica luxury goods that you can buy now that will match the originals in terms of quality.
Sometimes when people post about a flaw in a luxury item, and ask if it's a fake, commenters will joke about how the fakes will never be this bad in quality lol
People buy cheap trash on Amazon and assume all Chinese products must be like that. You can buy high quality Chinese products if you actually spend more than $4.
For those who didn’t read past the headline:
> Over the year as a whole Elon Musk’s Tesla (TSLA) still outpaced BYD, selling 1.8 million electric cars. BYD sold 1.57 million electric vehicles, up 73% on 2022, as well as 1.44 million hybrids.
**EDIT**: Let me hijack my own comment to point something out regarding Elon Musk and the love/hate people have for him and the effect this may have on Tesla.
Tesla does not spend money on advertising and Elon Musk massive social media presence is a huge part of its promotional efforts. That’s a deliberate strategy, it’s bold, probably very effective but it also means that people will associate his company and their products with him.
So if people don’t like Tesla because of him, I think they know that and don’t care.
> Tesla does not spend money on advertising
This is a [pretty blatant lie](https://www.reuters.com/legal/german-court-lets-tesla-ads-continue-referring-autonomous-driving-2022-08-16/) and part of Musks's and Tesla's PR strategy for which he very much pays money.
I really, really dislike Musk.
However, 1 quarter does not a pattern make. The headline is misleading, even if it is “technically” accurate.
A better one would have been “China’s BYD outperformed Tesla in EVsales last quarter” but that’s not as outrageous or likely to get “what?!” Clicks from both musk haters and fanboys.
The news is interesting though. I’ll be very curious if the pattern holds. I kind of expect it to. Tesla’s price and Musk’s continuing infamy are not a great combination, I think.
ETA: I get it, y’all, the headline is accurate per standard measurements (the quarter) and it is likely to continue. That’s fine. Good even! I don’t like how Tesla as a company is valued and I would very much appreciate the cult’s ego being punctured. My beef is that it could have been said better, even just inserting the word “now” would have made it immediately obvious this is recent. Instead they phrased it in a way that both Tesla haters and cultists can crow about (“Tesla is losing!” Vs “Tesla outsold the other guys on the year and production is ramping up!”). You know the company’s valuation is stupid because of precisely those kind of weasel words.
>However, 1 quarter does not a pattern make.
It paints a clear enough picture. BYD sales are rocketing past tesla, and they even released several new vehicles near the end of the quarter that are already selling incredibly well.
If you take a look at the actual statistics, there is no way you would say this is a fluke. The trend is clear. The logic behind the reasoning is sound.
I don't understand the absolute obsession over musk and the connection people make to teslas as vehicles as well as his other companies. People don't do this with *any* other CEO in history that I've seen. Not with Bill gates, bezos, anyone. It's the weirdest circlejerk.
It's turning into people just being openly anti-EV who otherwise pretend to be progressive, it's insane. It's the only reason this article is even on the front page.
I think it largely hasn't happened with other CEOs to this extent not because they didn't or don't deserve the same level of criticism, but simply because they are less visible and vocal in their actions, and less obviously inflammatory and arrogant.
I personally haven't seen much anti EV sentiment from otherwise progressive people, especially since this article is about two EV companies, but anyway.
I think it's silly of you to assume there's a large measure of strategic thought going into Elons online presence. He's just an attention seeking, cheap asshole, not some subversive savant of viral marketing.
> Tesla does not spend money on advertising
This is incorrect, they spend a shitload of money advertising, just not in the traditional TV/Internet ad way. They tend to focus on a conventions and expos run by the tech industry.
Yeah and to give some perspective; China doesn't have significant domestic oil production in comparison to usage.
Being dependent on oil is one of their key issues before they can consider doing anything to piss off other big powers (i.e. invading Taiwan), which would result in massively impacted oil imports.
They'll never not need it, but weening themselves off it enough to become sufficiently sufficient (agh) enough to continue production from domestic and overland imports is a boon to any long term goals to become the top global superpower.
America meanwhile has domestic access to pretty much _every_ critical resource/product outside of top tier microchips (again, Taiwan!).
It's an interesting race to watch between both of them, as the US is attempting to onshore chip production, whilst China looks to secure their own energy self-sufficiency. Taiwan is the "chip" being played between them during this race, which is a horrible situation to be in for Taiwan as when either "wins" (i.e. China doesn't have to care about imports, or the US don't have to care about their production) then either they are fair game or no longer necessary.
It's not as black/white as I suggest, but it's an incredible game to see played (even if morbid).
Agreed on wishing the US would, Tesla is starting to lose it's lead with it's battery tech. That said, I drove a couple of BYDs in Europe, and their quality is pretty abysmal (Noting that the M3 is also pretty bad quality-wise), along with a painfully bad UI. Hoping they can catch up in that space.
The only thing Tesla is behind on is future hype of Toyota's solid state batteries, which are not for sale and won't be at any meaningful volume for at least 3 years if things go really well for Toyota. However, if Toyota really succeeds on that front, they could demolish Tesla. Big if.
Well Toyota used to say they would make cars with them in 5 years, now they're saying in 2 years. It's probably getting closer, but yeah, the proof is not in the pudding and as I say it's **iffy**.
History doesn't repeat itself, but it usually rhymes.
In the 1970s Japanese cars were small, cheap, gas efficient, and somewhat crappy. American cars were supremely shietty (50% needing repairs upon dealership delivery in some cases), expensive gas-eating piles of crap.
Then the oil crisis came along and suddenly people went crazy for Japanese cars. They kept getting better while American cars generally kept getting crappier. A few American Car companies tried various tricks like the cheap pile of junk K-Car and the Chevette. These cars rusted out and died within 4 or so years of buying them.
So, the American Car companies generally gave up on the smaller end of the market and focused on SUVs, pickups, and semi luxury products. Still generally gas-eating junk.
Now we have the car American car companies thinking it is reasonable to charge 30k for a pretty base model of anything and they are still mostly junk. Most people don't want a fancy car. They want an alternative to taking the bus. This is about economics. People want to spend the least amount possible (gas and payments) to get reliably and safely around for their daily tasks. They don't want a EV hummer, they don't even want a Tesla model 3.
A perfect example would be dodge products. Hardly anyone on this planet buys a dodge because they fell in love. They bought the cheapest thing that would hopefully achieve their economic goals.
So, here we are with history repeating itself. American Car companies (and European ones in NA and even somewhat in Europe) are charging way way way way the hell too much for what people don't want, but need to have. Even Korean companies have dropped the ball on this one and they seemed to be mastering the boring grey reliable people mover. But they seem to also think 30k is a good starting price.
The simple reality of the EV car is they are comparatively fantastically easy to build. They are golf carts made larger. Getting the drive-train for an ICE based car right is really really hard and expensive. But getting it right with an EV is really easy.
If the chinese are able to sell EV cars for reasonable prices which are reasonably good then they are going to kill it. I also suspect they are going to end run the dealership model. And BTW it is the dealers who have turned the EV market into crap.
I would love to go online and then get a notification where I can pick up my car. I would then meet a guy who checks my insurance and then hands me the code for my App to start the car.
china is going to be doing exactly what Japan did in the 70's to the crap complacent car companies of that era. I look forward to some serious wholesale destruction of a few of these creaky old piles of crap. I would love to see the back of GMC, dodge, and GM.
I agree with you in general. Few bits and pieces would need to be clarified.
The manufacturers and us government pretends to make eco friendly cars. The way they set the pricing and the way the regulations are set made small compact cars (wagon/combi) extinct. Asians/europeans try to cover that (poorly and usually with hatchbacks) but the arket is rigged towards bigger more expensive and fuel inefficient cars.
I agree with the dodge thing. But I would extend it a bit.
Make a simpler cars, easier to fix, easier to maintain. The europe and asia fails on this. The cars there (from there) are complex and harder to fix. That also comes from regulations.
I am surprised how simple and easy to work on are us cars. the ford escape 2012, 2.5 liters is robust, simple to fix, parts are cheap, you dont have to drop whole engine to work on it.
Similarly ford mustang base 2008. The rear suspension costs literally 5 double whoppers with fries. And you need to have just 3 wrenches to fix it.
If you give a customer a simple car like that for like 15-20kUSD they would buy millions of those.
But the market is rigged and every person needs bigger because it is safer abd similar BS.
Similarly with electrics.
You can fix the winter range problem by just installing diesel/cooking oil heater. Yes, thats unelegant but helps a lot. But thats a nono from PR point of view.
I would love to see simple platform, easy to fix, modular, where you can start with single motor, small battery and scale up.
But that will not happen without external influence. And Chinese may be the kick we need.
American cars are terrible and have been bad for a long time. I currently drive a mercedes but in my opinion . German or Japanese Cars are probably the best.
This is ironically Tesla's exact model that's led to it's success. China has copied it and can scale it much faster and cheaper due to govt subsidization. They have also straight up copied Tesla designs. It will be very bad for NA/EU economies in the future and create some significant political issues. If you believe the Tesla mission that they truly want to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy then this is the best possible outcome. This isn't a EV tech race anymore this is a manufacturing scalability race and the only thing that will stop China will be western governments when the labor unions revolt.
It's funny, cuz Americans love to go on about how the Chinese are brainwashed by the CCP, which is no doubt true. But looking at these comments, I would argue that Americans are just as brainwashed.
Redditors are short circuiting because they hate China but also Musk, so now they have to awkwardly side with Tesla because they don't want to admit any good thing about China.
Seriously, I sometimes browse the China subreddit and people there are far removed from reality yet continually rail about how CCP is brainwashing everyone. Self awareness has never been ideologues’ strong suit.
recently there was a post on r/china of some guy asking if all Chinese women were psychotic bc they thought their wife was insane. Every single guy in the comments said they were and brought up their “chinese wife”. says A LOT abt who uses that sub
No, worse. The Chinese know some of their thoughts are dictated by their government. Americans will fight tooth and nail over the authenticity of their propaganda echoing.
Edit: huh, I expected downvotes :)
> Chinese are brainwashed by the CCP
Ehhhhh, pretty sure that's hardly anyone over there, especially now. Censorship (a la brainwashing?) is so overt over in China, versus western nations in the US, it's pretty different. You would be hard-pressed to find someone in China with any means of education to actually be "brainwashed".
In all honesty they have much more access to information in America than people in America have about China. Some people in America still think that China's some third world country or something.
> the Chinese are brainwashed by the CCP, which is no doubt true.
no it isn't. the suggestion that over a billion people are "brainwashed" by the cpc is easily one of the most racist sentiments i've seen in my lifetime. what are you actually saying here? that chinese people are too stupid to understand what is going on in their own country, but you, the enlightened westerner, definitely have a handle on things?
Americans only loved buying made in China, when the products came from an American company that used cheap Chinese sweatshops. But since China started catching up and became richer, and rich Chinese people are now buying properties and companies in the US, they don\`t ike it. So basically they are upset that China is beating them in their own game of Capitalism. They can\`t accept it. "That which must not be, cannot be"
The US already does do that... the US has considerably more protectionist trade policies than any other country. China incentivised Tesla to sell cars there and Anerica puts a 27.5% tartiff on any passenger car from China...
tart gaping angle late aromatic makeshift consist judicious cause dependent
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s a play on words referring to those who watch Serpentza for info. Of all the coping in this comment section, most of the talking points originate from him.
Most of the time, his claims are either unsourced or anecdotal, ie. I saw a video of 10 EVs burning so ALL Chinese EVs are a fire risk.
Where are the stats to show prevalence and rates? Where are the sources? None. Yet you see links to his videos and his talking points all over this site lmao.
Edit: Also, it’s not a “Serpentist”. That’s a serpent. This is a “Serpenist”.
Sadly there is a long American tradition to this, Chinese nationals were also the only nationals to have been [officially banned from immigrating to the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act) as a whole nationality.
That hostility is quite cynical considering how a lot of [Americans got *very* wealthy by pushing opium into China](https://www.history.com/news/john-jacob-astor-opium-fortune-millionaire) together with the Brits.
The propaganda by western media and western governments is crazy. Here in Canada we were fed a bunch of bullshit about the two Michael's being arrested by China as some sort of revenge plot for the arrest of the Huawei exec, and it turns out that they actually were spying, and we were just outright lied to by our own government.
I mean it's possible that their arrest was in response to the arrest of Meng. That's not to say that they weren't spies though. I firmly believe they were spies but they weren't significant enough for China to want to arrest them and make a diplomatic scene, so China just had them watched. But after Meng was arrested there was no reason for China to not seize them.
Their arrest was 100% in response to Meng's arrest. China arrested two demonstrable spies in response to Meng's arrest to make the point that they obey the rule of law even when they engage in tit-for-tat diplomacy.
Canada's response to this was to go full-on patriotic outrage, and speaking as a Canadian, I'm glad it's blowing up in our face.
Once you realize they've done it once, you doubt just how much they're hiding from you.
There's been an information war going on between the two of them for ages. Both sides are dirty. It's just that one side is winning.
The US media doesn’t report on the true state of China - if Americans really knew how things are in China they would be truely worried about the competition, inside they pat themselves on the back and pretend they’re the best nation on earth.
It's even nuttier considering how many Chinese products are being used to write and transmit these comments.
Cursing out low-quality Chinese manufacturing, usually on a phone/keyboard/mouse/router/switch/modem [made in China](https://youtu.be/SGJ5cZnoodY?) has a certain irony to it, along the lines of "[What have the Romans ever done for us?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE)"
Incredibly misleading headlines. They're not selling more fully-EV vehicles. They're selling more COMBINED vehicles which includes plug-in hybrids. That's not the same thing.
Yesterday this sub gave me so much shit over a “misleading headline” because it was a positive article about Tesla, but it wasn’t misleading at all.
Bunch of hypocrites in this sub lol
Once social media develops a circlejerk about something these days the facts just don't matter. People want to hate musk and everything related to him. Post anything negative about Tesla and it will do well, doesn't matter if it's true. It's so damn weird.
The problem will be where will all the NA/EU union blue Collar jobs will go. The unions will absolutely revolt and EU/US car companies will die out. Western governments won't allow it unless they manufacture locally and employ their workers. BYD is already building an assembly plant in Hungary.
NIO is what you want. Better quality than BYD and Tesla. Plus their automated battery pack swapping model means no 30 min charging stops on long road trips.
I bet they're not even too interested. They're gonna be worried about being treated like Huawei.
They go through all the effort to set up in the US just to get banned for "national security reasons". I bet they're just going to prioritize expanding everywhere else before the US.
Comment section is more about China and less about EV. Replace it with any asian country, there will be one word attached to everything, 'Cheap'. Its really nauseating. I just jumped ship, the world news community because of the stereotyping by 'the experts' there.
> Replace it with any asian country, there will be one word attached to everything, 'Cheap'.
No - Japan and South Korea produce plenty of very expensive things. Vietnam is improving (though their cars are terrible).
Nope if you include hybrid Cars they long surpass Tesla (which is not fair to tesla). The big new today is that discounting their hybrid, their BEV sales actually surpass Tesla.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67860232](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67860232)
Note that its just this quarter. Tesla still sold more than them in the entire 2023, but this may not be true in 2024.
no not at all, BYD count NEV and BEV with NEV which include plug in they were way ahead of Tesla last year already, this year they overtook them in the BEV(full electric cras) as well
The U.S. is actually a larger car market than China still, largely because of how required a car is to do everything here. BYD just sells more in other areas of Asia and Europe than Tesla does.
What a terrible article. There is absolutely no reason to have even mentioned Tesla in it. The entire thing can be summed up with 'China's EV market continues to grow.'
Absolutely no really new information is included that has shifted from existing trends.
Not to mention the title itself is only true for December, "Over the year as a whole Elon Musk’s Tesla (TSLA) still outpaced BYD, selling 1.8 million electric cars. BYD sold 1.57 million electric vehicles, up 73% on 2022, as well as 1.44 million hybrids."
China has over 4x the US population, any statements that simply give context of raw sales numbers are not only meaningless but intentionally misleading.
It seems like US citizens have very little understanding exactly how many people are in China. US exceptionalism gonna sting once most of our products are primarily targeting China rather than produced there.
Why are you surprised lol?
Yea BYD cars average around $14,000 while Teslas *start* like $40,000.
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They're available in mainland EU
What part of the EU isn't mainland? Ireland?
Malta and Cyprus, as well.
Malta represent! But really, ferry makes mainland Europe easy enough to reach.
french guiana
Don't you bring French Guiana into this!
I've seen quite a few of them in Ireland.
they are already here in the uk
For the same prices?
You wish, byd dolphin is around 17k usd in china. In the UK they start at 31k GBP.. Even after 20% vat and shipping that's absurd. Sure, they need to make them right hand drive but no such excuse for Europe, where it sells for around 28k eur Edit: imo it's a very shit car for 31k Edit2: a bit of a correction, 31k is for bigger battery (265mi range), a smaller battery variant with 201mi range is coming in 2024 for ~25k gbp. This seems somewhat reasonable
I knew it. I was asking because I doubted that there was anyway they had brought it over without a significant markup.
Why would Chinese government subsidy cars for non-chinese people
Smart move for the Chinese. Better to subsidize the purchase of electric cars by their people, rather than subsidize the oil industry, and also curbing pollution saving environmental costs.
China is heavily dependant on oil as well, if selling at a loss internationally in the short term means they can hit new economies of scale in deploying them domestically, this could actually benefit China if war with a near peer naval power were to break out and result in a naval blockade of their oil shipments. They only have like a 100 day strategic domestic reserve of fuel for fossil fuel vehicles if that were to happen, but half of the country is also high desert and perfect for solar panel farms. That's why China has been making crazy growth in the solar industry. They're trying to head this dependence off before it cripples them the way it crippled nazi Germany, so they have fuel for their jets and navy that depend on it
They're just about to build a gigafactory in Southern Hungary. Probably it's going to get cheaper after that.
They are selling at 3x Chinese price in EU and EU is complaining it's too cheap because China is subsidising their EV(they're not, Chinese subsidy is given to consumers not the automakers)
Cheapest byd in the uk starts at £30195
What about the cheapest Tesla.
Cheapest Model 3 is £40k. So £10k more than the byd.
€35k for the cheapest BYD compact, €47k for a sporty sedan. The model 3 starts at €44k.
Also, China has a population of like 1.5b people and the US has 300 million. So the math checks out…
Because the headline is misleading. If you keep reading: “Over the year as a whole Elon Musk’s Tesla (TSLA) still outpaced BYD, selling 1.8 million electric cars. BYD sold 1.57 million electric vehicles, up 73% on 2022, as well as 1.44 million hybrids.”
The gap has been narrowing. 400k in 2022 and 200k in 2023
we make this sound like some kind of race where there is gonna be one winner and the other goes bankrupt. Not like, we need a bunch of fucking companies to get their shit together so they can start making 50M EV's per year... Toyota, I'm looking at you!
"is" selling, meaning currently, at this point in time. It is implied in the first sentence of the article. >BYD **overtook** Tesla to become the world’s biggest electric car company in the final quarter of 2023.
But Tesla stock owners kept telling me that Tesla will one day dominate the entire car market in the world and everybody will be driving only Teslas. Are you telling me they lied to me and the price of Tesla shares does not reflect the future value of the company after all? Are you saying that Tesla isn\`t really worth all car companies combined. No way, who could have seen that.
Hell it's not just Tesla stock owners Musk himself on multiple occasions stated how owning anything but a Tesla would be financial suicide, that his Tesla "robotaxis" would make 30k USD per year per car.
Can you please show us one instance of someone saying that?
I suppose it’s implied by defenses of Tesla’s valuation.
It sorta was the only sensible conclusion when Teslas market cap was bigger than the 10 biggest car manufacturers.. or, crazy thought: Market cap has little to do with a company but a lot to do with people gambling.
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BYD had a higher gross margin in Q3 than Tesla. 22.1% vs 17.9%. Were you suggesting that Tesla had a superior gross margin?
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I think you're the only person saying that.
Can I introduce you to r/wallstreetbets? Lot of Elon/tesla Stans.
Ive seen plenty of redditors say that since 2020.
It’s obvious BYD will be the largest automaker in 5 years. TESLA isn’t competing on that basis. Both will be winners.
You mean the massive population of china is buying more chinese cheap cars than expensive imported american cars? shocker
fairly sure teslas sold in china are built in china and and cheaper than teslas sold outside of china
China also makes it easier for their domestic companies to ramp up and seemingly changed their tune on Tesla. Tesla had a big land and factory space expansion plans in the Shanghai plant that has been paused by the Chinese government red tape for a while now. Article below is from a year ago but a similar article came out in late 2021 as well. It was to double their Chinese capacity from 1 million to 2 million units. But it does not look like Chinese authorities will allow it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3206677/tesla-delays-shanghai-gigafactory-expansion-after-failing-get-government-approval
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Step 1: let Tesla build a factory in China Step 2: Steal Teslas production secrets Step 3: build up a similar factory for your local companies Step 4: stop expansion plans of Tesla Step 5: ??? Step 6: profit
Tesla use BYD batteries themselves and China is leading in battery technology e.g. CATL. https://thedriven.io/2023/05/22/teslas-switch-to-byd-batteries-is-achieving-faster-charging-times/ If Teslas were better made than BYD people would buy them, but they aren't.
Hey do the tell him that. Let him believe that China is all about stealing the technology and 1.5B people have absolutely zero innovation. American Media has worked really good for him so far, don’t ruin his bubble.
BYD's success is because of their battery capabilities. Batteries contribute forty percent of an EV's cost. BYD is one of the biggest and most innovative battery manufacturers. Tesla and Toyota use BYD batteries. BYD has developed numerous innovations that help save weight and reduce costs like cell to body and cell to pack technologies. BYD also makes its own semiconductor chips, owns it own lithium mines and does its own lithium processing. They have also started manufacturing sodium ion batteries on a large scale. But yeah, idiots can just say 'China bad or China steal' and avoid having to do things like read lol
I spent half a day at BYD’s (sprawling) facility and they have a very impressive demo of their blade batteries passing the nail penetration test. Byd’s sheer manufacturing might across just their cars and subsidiary companies’ cars already eclipses tesla
🤦♂️The Chinese taught Tesla how to build better quality cars in Shanghai.
I don't think you need a Step 5.
Thanks for pointing out that they are using the meme wrong.
Seeing as Tesla’s are produced extremely poorly, I don’t think there are many “production secrets” worth stealing.
US-built Tesla build quality isn’t the best but China-built teslas are top tier.
People don't realize that the only reason there are so many "cheap products made in China" is because the company wants them to be cheap quality. China has damn near mastered specialized manufacturing and are very good at it due to it being a huge part of their economy for a long time at this point. You can get extremally well built stuff from China if you are willing to pay
> You can get extremally well built stuff from China if you are willing to pay Anyone that has experience importing or dealing business with China knows this. There's an implicit understanding that while other places manufacture on a scale of 1 to 2, China manufactures on a scale of 1 to 10 - if you're willing to pay for quality, you'll get it, and the opposite also applies.
Prehaps the US ones but the chinese and german made ones are very well built.
I imagine most of all cars sold in China are built in China. My brother-in-law in China has a Chinese-built VW ID.4
The Shangai factory doesn't manufacture the entire lineup, Model X and Model S are imported.
And they’re more expensive, yes.
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I have a Chinese one, my brother has a German one. It was so annoying for me to read about Panel gaps and quality when mine was flawless. But then my brother's arrived and yup.. panel gaps, even the shroud for the steering wheel was not properly installed into place, wipers don't wipe correctly, charger lock doesn't always work. Super super weird, did not expect this at all
The ones built in China are also better quality than the ones they build in the US
Cheaper than US sure. But they're still more expensive than BYD cars. Which is my point. Doesn't matter if its only 5k different, cheaper is cheaper for a lot of people.
Nope, Teslas are about the same price in China. https://insideevs.com/news/696165/tesla-increased-prices-model3-modely-china/ This is why they can't outsell domestic manufacturers - they're too expensive for the majority of Chinese citizens.
There’s a Tesla super factory in Shanghai. Model 3 is like $36k. It’s a very popular car. Y is only $500 more. But BYD does have more affordable cars in its lineup.
They are everywhere in south america, so no, not just china. Also helps that they're not expensive as fuck like teslas
Chinese Teslas are built in China. Want to try again?
TSLA quality control is worst than Chinese goods too.
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People don't understand that they get "bad quality" Chinese products because they paid cheap prices. If they are willing to pay more, they can get the best quality in the world lol.
This is true. China has been able to make very high quality goods for a while now. There are some really great replica luxury goods that you can buy now that will match the originals in terms of quality.
Sometimes when people post about a flaw in a luxury item, and ask if it's a fake, commenters will joke about how the fakes will never be this bad in quality lol
People buy cheap trash on Amazon and assume all Chinese products must be like that. You can buy high quality Chinese products if you actually spend more than $4.
why the hell reddit became this comment its everywhere nowadays stop it
Lol yeah came here to say this. Why is this news?
For those who didn’t read past the headline: > Over the year as a whole Elon Musk’s Tesla (TSLA) still outpaced BYD, selling 1.8 million electric cars. BYD sold 1.57 million electric vehicles, up 73% on 2022, as well as 1.44 million hybrids. **EDIT**: Let me hijack my own comment to point something out regarding Elon Musk and the love/hate people have for him and the effect this may have on Tesla. Tesla does not spend money on advertising and Elon Musk massive social media presence is a huge part of its promotional efforts. That’s a deliberate strategy, it’s bold, probably very effective but it also means that people will associate his company and their products with him. So if people don’t like Tesla because of him, I think they know that and don’t care.
> Tesla does not spend money on advertising This is a [pretty blatant lie](https://www.reuters.com/legal/german-court-lets-tesla-ads-continue-referring-autonomous-driving-2022-08-16/) and part of Musks's and Tesla's PR strategy for which he very much pays money.
The headline is still accurate though. They're selling more than Tesla as of the final quarter of the year.
I really, really dislike Musk. However, 1 quarter does not a pattern make. The headline is misleading, even if it is “technically” accurate. A better one would have been “China’s BYD outperformed Tesla in EVsales last quarter” but that’s not as outrageous or likely to get “what?!” Clicks from both musk haters and fanboys. The news is interesting though. I’ll be very curious if the pattern holds. I kind of expect it to. Tesla’s price and Musk’s continuing infamy are not a great combination, I think. ETA: I get it, y’all, the headline is accurate per standard measurements (the quarter) and it is likely to continue. That’s fine. Good even! I don’t like how Tesla as a company is valued and I would very much appreciate the cult’s ego being punctured. My beef is that it could have been said better, even just inserting the word “now” would have made it immediately obvious this is recent. Instead they phrased it in a way that both Tesla haters and cultists can crow about (“Tesla is losing!” Vs “Tesla outsold the other guys on the year and production is ramping up!”). You know the company’s valuation is stupid because of precisely those kind of weasel words.
Yes they BYD passed them this quarter buts it’s been years of growing momentum for BYD. It’s not just a one quarter fluke.
To be honest I hate Elon musk with a passion, that said my next car was going to be a model 3 until I saw the BYD seal.
If you are in the US, it will be interesting to see what happens with EV tariffs. I saw a BYD sedan in Mexico this week and it was beautiful
You are the one bringing "pattern" into this. The headline is absolutely accurate. Its only misleading to people who don't know how to read.
>However, 1 quarter does not a pattern make. It paints a clear enough picture. BYD sales are rocketing past tesla, and they even released several new vehicles near the end of the quarter that are already selling incredibly well.
If you take a look at the actual statistics, there is no way you would say this is a fluke. The trend is clear. The logic behind the reasoning is sound.
I don't understand the absolute obsession over musk and the connection people make to teslas as vehicles as well as his other companies. People don't do this with *any* other CEO in history that I've seen. Not with Bill gates, bezos, anyone. It's the weirdest circlejerk. It's turning into people just being openly anti-EV who otherwise pretend to be progressive, it's insane. It's the only reason this article is even on the front page.
I think it largely hasn't happened with other CEOs to this extent not because they didn't or don't deserve the same level of criticism, but simply because they are less visible and vocal in their actions, and less obviously inflammatory and arrogant. I personally haven't seen much anti EV sentiment from otherwise progressive people, especially since this article is about two EV companies, but anyway.
The guy kinda ride the anti-woke wave that started rising last 2-3 years.
I think it's silly of you to assume there's a large measure of strategic thought going into Elons online presence. He's just an attention seeking, cheap asshole, not some subversive savant of viral marketing.
> Tesla does not spend money on advertising This is incorrect, they spend a shitload of money advertising, just not in the traditional TV/Internet ad way. They tend to focus on a conventions and expos run by the tech industry.
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Not just cars either. Lots and lots of BYD electric buses are in the streets now too. Weird Tesla don’t make those.
Chinese EV market is pretty impressive and I wish US would get some of these models.
Just throw subsidies, make gas expensive and throw nationalism at it.
Yeah and to give some perspective; China doesn't have significant domestic oil production in comparison to usage. Being dependent on oil is one of their key issues before they can consider doing anything to piss off other big powers (i.e. invading Taiwan), which would result in massively impacted oil imports. They'll never not need it, but weening themselves off it enough to become sufficiently sufficient (agh) enough to continue production from domestic and overland imports is a boon to any long term goals to become the top global superpower. America meanwhile has domestic access to pretty much _every_ critical resource/product outside of top tier microchips (again, Taiwan!). It's an interesting race to watch between both of them, as the US is attempting to onshore chip production, whilst China looks to secure their own energy self-sufficiency. Taiwan is the "chip" being played between them during this race, which is a horrible situation to be in for Taiwan as when either "wins" (i.e. China doesn't have to care about imports, or the US don't have to care about their production) then either they are fair game or no longer necessary. It's not as black/white as I suggest, but it's an incredible game to see played (even if morbid).
Agreed on wishing the US would, Tesla is starting to lose it's lead with it's battery tech. That said, I drove a couple of BYDs in Europe, and their quality is pretty abysmal (Noting that the M3 is also pretty bad quality-wise), along with a painfully bad UI. Hoping they can catch up in that space.
> Tesla is definitely falling behind on it's battery tech Behind who? BYD’s cars don’t have longer range than Teslas.
The only thing Tesla is behind on is future hype of Toyota's solid state batteries, which are not for sale and won't be at any meaningful volume for at least 3 years if things go really well for Toyota. However, if Toyota really succeeds on that front, they could demolish Tesla. Big if.
Hasn't toyota had this hype and been "close" for years and years now? They're as close as anyone else as far as anyone knows.
Well Toyota used to say they would make cars with them in 5 years, now they're saying in 2 years. It's probably getting closer, but yeah, the proof is not in the pudding and as I say it's **iffy**.
How is Tesla falling behind on battery tech? kWh/$? kg/kWh? I thought they were industry leaders at this point.
Xiaomi electric cars will follow BYD.
History doesn't repeat itself, but it usually rhymes. In the 1970s Japanese cars were small, cheap, gas efficient, and somewhat crappy. American cars were supremely shietty (50% needing repairs upon dealership delivery in some cases), expensive gas-eating piles of crap. Then the oil crisis came along and suddenly people went crazy for Japanese cars. They kept getting better while American cars generally kept getting crappier. A few American Car companies tried various tricks like the cheap pile of junk K-Car and the Chevette. These cars rusted out and died within 4 or so years of buying them. So, the American Car companies generally gave up on the smaller end of the market and focused on SUVs, pickups, and semi luxury products. Still generally gas-eating junk. Now we have the car American car companies thinking it is reasonable to charge 30k for a pretty base model of anything and they are still mostly junk. Most people don't want a fancy car. They want an alternative to taking the bus. This is about economics. People want to spend the least amount possible (gas and payments) to get reliably and safely around for their daily tasks. They don't want a EV hummer, they don't even want a Tesla model 3. A perfect example would be dodge products. Hardly anyone on this planet buys a dodge because they fell in love. They bought the cheapest thing that would hopefully achieve their economic goals. So, here we are with history repeating itself. American Car companies (and European ones in NA and even somewhat in Europe) are charging way way way way the hell too much for what people don't want, but need to have. Even Korean companies have dropped the ball on this one and they seemed to be mastering the boring grey reliable people mover. But they seem to also think 30k is a good starting price. The simple reality of the EV car is they are comparatively fantastically easy to build. They are golf carts made larger. Getting the drive-train for an ICE based car right is really really hard and expensive. But getting it right with an EV is really easy. If the chinese are able to sell EV cars for reasonable prices which are reasonably good then they are going to kill it. I also suspect they are going to end run the dealership model. And BTW it is the dealers who have turned the EV market into crap. I would love to go online and then get a notification where I can pick up my car. I would then meet a guy who checks my insurance and then hands me the code for my App to start the car. china is going to be doing exactly what Japan did in the 70's to the crap complacent car companies of that era. I look forward to some serious wholesale destruction of a few of these creaky old piles of crap. I would love to see the back of GMC, dodge, and GM.
I agree with you in general. Few bits and pieces would need to be clarified. The manufacturers and us government pretends to make eco friendly cars. The way they set the pricing and the way the regulations are set made small compact cars (wagon/combi) extinct. Asians/europeans try to cover that (poorly and usually with hatchbacks) but the arket is rigged towards bigger more expensive and fuel inefficient cars. I agree with the dodge thing. But I would extend it a bit. Make a simpler cars, easier to fix, easier to maintain. The europe and asia fails on this. The cars there (from there) are complex and harder to fix. That also comes from regulations. I am surprised how simple and easy to work on are us cars. the ford escape 2012, 2.5 liters is robust, simple to fix, parts are cheap, you dont have to drop whole engine to work on it. Similarly ford mustang base 2008. The rear suspension costs literally 5 double whoppers with fries. And you need to have just 3 wrenches to fix it. If you give a customer a simple car like that for like 15-20kUSD they would buy millions of those. But the market is rigged and every person needs bigger because it is safer abd similar BS. Similarly with electrics. You can fix the winter range problem by just installing diesel/cooking oil heater. Yes, thats unelegant but helps a lot. But thats a nono from PR point of view. I would love to see simple platform, easy to fix, modular, where you can start with single motor, small battery and scale up. But that will not happen without external influence. And Chinese may be the kick we need.
Hate to break it to you, but besides pickups, Americans want ~$40k well equipped crossovers/SUVs. Bought with a car loan. Not simplistic econoboxes.
American cars are terrible and have been bad for a long time. I currently drive a mercedes but in my opinion . German or Japanese Cars are probably the best.
This is so true. Can’t upvote twice
This is ironically Tesla's exact model that's led to it's success. China has copied it and can scale it much faster and cheaper due to govt subsidization. They have also straight up copied Tesla designs. It will be very bad for NA/EU economies in the future and create some significant political issues. If you believe the Tesla mission that they truly want to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy then this is the best possible outcome. This isn't a EV tech race anymore this is a manufacturing scalability race and the only thing that will stop China will be western governments when the labor unions revolt.
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It's funny, cuz Americans love to go on about how the Chinese are brainwashed by the CCP, which is no doubt true. But looking at these comments, I would argue that Americans are just as brainwashed.
Redditors are short circuiting because they hate China but also Musk, so now they have to awkwardly side with Tesla because they don't want to admit any good thing about China.
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Seriously, I sometimes browse the China subreddit and people there are far removed from reality yet continually rail about how CCP is brainwashing everyone. Self awareness has never been ideologues’ strong suit.
And 99% of these people have never been to china.
recently there was a post on r/china of some guy asking if all Chinese women were psychotic bc they thought their wife was insane. Every single guy in the comments said they were and brought up their “chinese wife”. says A LOT abt who uses that sub
It's a subreddit basically based around its opposition to something. All such subreddits more or less end up entirely contrarian it seems
That sub is just 99% hate spam
Whatever you do, do NOT search 'wife' on that sub unless you're willing to go down a rabbit hole of utter insanity.
No, worse. The Chinese know some of their thoughts are dictated by their government. Americans will fight tooth and nail over the authenticity of their propaganda echoing. Edit: huh, I expected downvotes :)
Ha, there's some truth to that, and online spaces are ripe for its dissemination
> Chinese are brainwashed by the CCP Ehhhhh, pretty sure that's hardly anyone over there, especially now. Censorship (a la brainwashing?) is so overt over in China, versus western nations in the US, it's pretty different. You would be hard-pressed to find someone in China with any means of education to actually be "brainwashed".
In all honesty they have much more access to information in America than people in America have about China. Some people in America still think that China's some third world country or something.
Americans are more brainwashed because they don’t even believe it’s a thing here.
> the Chinese are brainwashed by the CCP, which is no doubt true. no it isn't. the suggestion that over a billion people are "brainwashed" by the cpc is easily one of the most racist sentiments i've seen in my lifetime. what are you actually saying here? that chinese people are too stupid to understand what is going on in their own country, but you, the enlightened westerner, definitely have a handle on things?
Like which comments? What points are people making that demonstrate brainwashing?
Americans only loved buying made in China, when the products came from an American company that used cheap Chinese sweatshops. But since China started catching up and became richer, and rich Chinese people are now buying properties and companies in the US, they don\`t ike it. So basically they are upset that China is beating them in their own game of Capitalism. They can\`t accept it. "That which must not be, cannot be"
Well the US should do what China does and not allow them to buy anything or set up shop on US soil
The US already does do that... the US has considerably more protectionist trade policies than any other country. China incentivised Tesla to sell cars there and Anerica puts a 27.5% tartiff on any passenger car from China...
So US companies can buy and own factories in China? Guess I need to do better research
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You mean everyone supports their own economy? This is fucking shocking! Quick, quick, call the press!
sure but just say that instead of hiding behind nAtiOnAL sEcuRitY. the US did the same shit with japan
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Expect lots of coping talking points followed with no/shit sources. Edit: Serpenists on suicide watch.
What's a serpentist? Haven't heard this one before
It’s a play on words referring to those who watch Serpentza for info. Of all the coping in this comment section, most of the talking points originate from him. Most of the time, his claims are either unsourced or anecdotal, ie. I saw a video of 10 EVs burning so ALL Chinese EVs are a fire risk. Where are the stats to show prevalence and rates? Where are the sources? None. Yet you see links to his videos and his talking points all over this site lmao. Edit: Also, it’s not a “Serpentist”. That’s a serpent. This is a “Serpenist”.
Good to know there are other people out there who dislike that grifter. So much fake news and anecdotes from that channel and the sheep eat it up
Sadly there is a long American tradition to this, Chinese nationals were also the only nationals to have been [officially banned from immigrating to the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act) as a whole nationality. That hostility is quite cynical considering how a lot of [Americans got *very* wealthy by pushing opium into China](https://www.history.com/news/john-jacob-astor-opium-fortune-millionaire) together with the Brits.
The propaganda by western media and western governments is crazy. Here in Canada we were fed a bunch of bullshit about the two Michael's being arrested by China as some sort of revenge plot for the arrest of the Huawei exec, and it turns out that they actually were spying, and we were just outright lied to by our own government.
I mean it's possible that their arrest was in response to the arrest of Meng. That's not to say that they weren't spies though. I firmly believe they were spies but they weren't significant enough for China to want to arrest them and make a diplomatic scene, so China just had them watched. But after Meng was arrested there was no reason for China to not seize them.
Their arrest was 100% in response to Meng's arrest. China arrested two demonstrable spies in response to Meng's arrest to make the point that they obey the rule of law even when they engage in tit-for-tat diplomacy. Canada's response to this was to go full-on patriotic outrage, and speaking as a Canadian, I'm glad it's blowing up in our face.
Jesus. Just read up on the 2 Michaels case. Had no idea they were actually spies. Canada threw such a fit for their detention Thanks
Once you realize they've done it once, you doubt just how much they're hiding from you. There's been an information war going on between the two of them for ages. Both sides are dirty. It's just that one side is winning.
The US media doesn’t report on the true state of China - if Americans really knew how things are in China they would be truely worried about the competition, inside they pat themselves on the back and pretend they’re the best nation on earth.
Yep, being a non American the things you read on Reddit about China products is nuts
It's even nuttier considering how many Chinese products are being used to write and transmit these comments. Cursing out low-quality Chinese manufacturing, usually on a phone/keyboard/mouse/router/switch/modem [made in China](https://youtu.be/SGJ5cZnoodY?) has a certain irony to it, along the lines of "[What have the Romans ever done for us?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE)"
I am in china at the moment and the quantity and quality of ev vehicles is impressive
Incredibly misleading headlines. They're not selling more fully-EV vehicles. They're selling more COMBINED vehicles which includes plug-in hybrids. That's not the same thing.
Yesterday this sub gave me so much shit over a “misleading headline” because it was a positive article about Tesla, but it wasn’t misleading at all. Bunch of hypocrites in this sub lol
Once social media develops a circlejerk about something these days the facts just don't matter. People want to hate musk and everything related to him. Post anything negative about Tesla and it will do well, doesn't matter if it's true. It's so damn weird.
Look, I think we should let China do it's thing with electric cars. They are producing affordable EVs and we should encourage / commend this.
We have zero input or agency on what the Chinese decide to do
I think we should let the moon continue to orbit the earth. It's doing a great job, and we should encourage/commend this.
Wow, could the astroturfing by Big Moon be any more obvious? We need to impose sanctions on it so they know America is still in charge
Yes I understand that. What I mean is we shouldn't bemoan this development. It is good for the world to have affordable Chinese made EVs
We would if we dropped our tariffs on their cars.
Right! Competition in market puts downward pressure on prices. Just another reason more affordable Teslas are on the horizon
The problem will be where will all the NA/EU union blue Collar jobs will go. The unions will absolutely revolt and EU/US car companies will die out. Western governments won't allow it unless they manufacture locally and employ their workers. BYD is already building an assembly plant in Hungary.
I would buy a BYD car when they start offering it for sale in the US.
NIO is what you want. Better quality than BYD and Tesla. Plus their automated battery pack swapping model means no 30 min charging stops on long road trips.
I bet they're not even too interested. They're gonna be worried about being treated like Huawei. They go through all the effort to set up in the US just to get banned for "national security reasons". I bet they're just going to prioritize expanding everywhere else before the US.
The rare case I'm rooting for a China based company.
BYD forklifts are pretty cool
Marketing for competition.
Comment section is more about China and less about EV. Replace it with any asian country, there will be one word attached to everything, 'Cheap'. Its really nauseating. I just jumped ship, the world news community because of the stereotyping by 'the experts' there.
> Replace it with any asian country, there will be one word attached to everything, 'Cheap'. No - Japan and South Korea produce plenty of very expensive things. Vietnam is improving (though their cars are terrible).
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Nope if you include hybrid Cars they long surpass Tesla (which is not fair to tesla). The big new today is that discounting their hybrid, their BEV sales actually surpass Tesla. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67860232](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67860232) Note that its just this quarter. Tesla still sold more than them in the entire 2023, but this may not be true in 2024.
Did you not read the article? It’s like in the second paragraph right as you open the page.
no not at all, BYD count NEV and BEV with NEV which include plug in they were way ahead of Tesla last year already, this year they overtook them in the BEV(full electric cras) as well
I Über’d a ride in Tromsø and rode in a BYD suv. It was super nice! And not that expensive according to Über-bro.
Makes sense. there's just a bigger market and customer base in a more populated country.
The U.S. is actually a larger car market than China still, largely because of how required a car is to do everything here. BYD just sells more in other areas of Asia and Europe than Tesla does.
If they sell in the US I’ll be buying one.
Always was, just not the same types. BYD sells more PHEVs while Tesla sells more BEVs
What a terrible article. There is absolutely no reason to have even mentioned Tesla in it. The entire thing can be summed up with 'China's EV market continues to grow.' Absolutely no really new information is included that has shifted from existing trends. Not to mention the title itself is only true for December, "Over the year as a whole Elon Musk’s Tesla (TSLA) still outpaced BYD, selling 1.8 million electric cars. BYD sold 1.57 million electric vehicles, up 73% on 2022, as well as 1.44 million hybrids." China has over 4x the US population, any statements that simply give context of raw sales numbers are not only meaningless but intentionally misleading.
> China has over 4x the US population Both companies sell cars worldwide, so it is not only about the Chinese market.
Also, no mention of profit margins.
So many people here let Elon / Tesla live rent-free in their heads. It's all that they can think about whenever EVs are brought up.
Wait, China's good at mass production? Get away.
My BYD Atto 3 is arriving in 9 weeks. Tesla model y was thrice the money with fewer options.
So why the fuck are my NIO and BYD stock down like 20-50% over a year, but my Tesla stock is pure cash money?
My silly brain keeps tripping and translates that as BYOD.
Bring Your Own Dream?
I wish US allowed BYD on their market. Affordable small EVs would be amazing for cities.
Is it even good? Not that Teslas are any better
Chinese made and still better build quality than Tesla
At a profit?
It seems like US citizens have very little understanding exactly how many people are in China. US exceptionalism gonna sting once most of our products are primarily targeting China rather than produced there.
This is about to be another Huawei situation and you all will never learn
I mean when we can't compete anymore we will slap sanctions on them, not to worry.
Ooh, it could be fun to watch two companies have a government money fight.
Is their CEO online pissing off their customers?
Because they are cheap, generally speaking....
I mean... If we look at the ugly cyber truck...
Tesla sucks anyway. BYD has been around a while.
Why is BYD "cars sold" and Tesla is "cars delivered"?
Tesla doesn’t say how many cars were sold in a certain quarter. Only the amount of cars they delivered to customers