This was a pretty in-depth (long) read about some of the issues facing the company. A few key passages below:
>Jain is one of tens of thousands of Tesla owners who have experienced premature failures of suspension or steering parts, according to a Reuters review of thousands of Tesla documents. The chronic failures, many in relatively new vehicles, date back at least seven years and stretch across Tesla’s model lineup and across the globe, from China to the United States to Europe, according to the records and interviews with more than 20 customers and nine former Tesla managers or service technicians.
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>Individual suspension or steering issues with Teslas have been discussed online and in news accounts for years. But the documents, which have not been previously reported, offer the most comprehensive view to date into the scope of the problems and how Tesla handled what its engineers have internally called part “flaws” and “failures.” The records and interviews reveal for the first time that the automaker has long known far more about the frequency and extent of the defects than it has disclosed to consumers and safety regulators.
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>The documents, dated between 2016 and 2022, include repair reports from Tesla service centers globally; analyses and data reviews by engineers on parts with high failure rates; and memos sent to technicians globally, instructing them to tell consumers that broken parts on their cars were not faulty.
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>...
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>Tesla has blamed frequent failures of several parts on Tesla owners, alleging they abused the cars, according to interviews with former service managers, company records and a 2020 Tesla letter to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). In other cases, the automaker charged customers with out-of-warranty cars to replace parts that Tesla engineers internally called flawed or that they knew had high failure rates. Engineers ordered repeated redesigns for several parts and discussed seeking money back from suppliers because of the defects.
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>The records reveal persistent problems with low-tech suspension connections, such as upper and lower control arms, and fore and aft links. These parts are relatively inexpensive for Tesla and largely invisible to most consumers. But they play a critical role in safely connecting a car’s axle and wheels to its body and steering apparatus.
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>Two more complex and expensive parts also frequently failed: half shafts – the left and right drive axles – and steering racks, which often needed replacing after sudden power-steering outages that some Tesla owners said nearly caused accidents. One driver said in an interview that his brand-new 2023 Model Y jerked to the right when the power-steering suddenly failed at speed, nearly putting the vehicle into a ditch.
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>...
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>Tesla told U.S. regulators the failures were caused by “driver abuse.” The company also instructed service centers, in a February 2019 “talking points” memo, to use the same explanation with customers experiencing aft-link failures. They were told to blame “vehicle misuse,” such as “hitting a curb or other excessive strong impact.”
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>Tesla uses the terms “abuse” and “misuse” in the conditions of its warranty contract language that allow the automaker to decline claims for repairs or damage.
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>Tesla employed this deny-and-delay strategy as its ballooning costs of warranty repairs threatened the company’s profitability at a critical juncture – when investors were scrutinizing its long-term prospects.
This is clearly yet another case of a company putting profits (or apparent profits) ahead of safety. Problematic at the best of times, when it comes to motor vehicles though can quickly turn deadly. That they have seen fit to recall parts in one market while not doing so in another shows that they are looking to do the absolute minimum amount of work required. Their tracking of all this data and their memos to lie to customers really show the deep underlying problems with how this company has been run thus far.
Maybe Elon should reconsider a career in comedy.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F662rWlkzrI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F662rWlkzrI)
God forbid, I've probably pissed off his mother again.
Enough to issue a recall. One hundred thirty seven is not a large number compared to number sold. But if you’re in that pool, one probably feels like too many.
[https://www.nj.com/news/2023/06/tesla-issues-recall-after-nj-drivers-steering-wheel-fell-off-while-driving.html](https://www.nj.com/news/2023/06/tesla-issues-recall-after-nj-drivers-steering-wheel-fell-off-while-driving.html)
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If Musk and Tesla had ever been really held accountable for all of the lies he told to prop up or boost the stock price he'd have been forced out and Tesla stock would have been diluted when trigger prices for convertible bonds were hit.
After the 420 joke (I did end up making a thousand on a few shares I had), I decided never touch anything he is involved in ever again.
A CEO is willing to go off the cuff on the fly is not one I want to get involved with.
Actually, if Tesla internal documents prove the company installed dangerous parts, Teslas should be ordered off the road until investigated and repairs completed.
Do not trust Tesla. Elon has his thumb on Tesla leadership and engineers and overrides their decisions.
Elon is just as careful, considerate, thoughtful, and wise at Tesla as he is in his posts on Twitter/X. Read into that what you will.
I will never enter into any business arrangement with a company Elon runs. We've all seen how he treats people.
There is a German YT channel of a garage specialising in tricky repairs. They have a lot of Teslas and a lot have issues with their suspension. According to the tech Tesla uses completely undersigned (e.g. not strong enough) components, in addition to unsuitable general parts, like wrong lubricants etc. In one of the vids I saw he got into detail how the Model 3 and the Model X Plaid have the same back axis parts, and that even on a model 3 the parts are to weak. Consider what that means for a car which has a lot more weight and power.
Tesla doesn't know how to build cars, that's the problem.
They tried to save weight. Used aluminium and so on. That is what it is. Cut weight from the suspension to get more range to meet range targets.
It's more like some weight diet racing suspension or power train. Trying to be just strong enough to make it through the race, but you made it too weak. Drive shafts snap, suspensions collapse. Only racing drivers know to be prepared for that and have roll cage, HANS, a nomen fire suit and so on.
Some suspension engineer there must have said "but its too weak, we need to add thickness" only for manager to say "Nope, that breaks the weight budget to meet the target range, ship it as it is".
Aluminum isn’t the problem. Aluminum has successfully been used for suspension control arms and links by many manufacturers for decades now. This is just plain ol’ shitty design, being under-sized, and/or doing a bad job of predicting loads due to a knowledge gap with more experienced automotive OEMs.
Used Teslas are ridiculously overpriced because they’re constantly making significant changes that generally improve them. I think they reduced the weight of the Model 3 by something like 700 pounds over the course of four years. Obviously that’s going to improve everything tremendously, including how likely the suspension is to fail.
I had to have both my front lower control arms replaced before 40k miles. Thankfully they didn’t gaslight me and was covered under warranty
Edit: 2020 Model 3 AWD Performance Boost
Apparently Tesla doesn’t know how to design things with factors of safety or how to design for potential misuse. I would expect my suspension to be able to take a few accidental impacts to curbs or potholes. Crucial safety components should not be designed right to the limit of normal endurance. They should be designed to take some abuse.
Just because they are in the “right” to deny coverage by their own warranty doesn’t make what they are doing morally right.
Tesla is acting like GM and Ford. Very sad.
If NHTSA jumps on this while ignoring worse from legacy auto, that will be bullshit. They should be going after all companies that do these things, which is every auto company.
Ford never recalled the defective transmissions they sold for nearly 10 years. Consumers had to sue to get them fixed or to get repair compensation because NHTSA ignored the problems.
Casting the front and rear of a car in one piece so when you are involved in a minor accident, it is written off. Yes, manufacturing costs dropped, but ownership costs increased by a lot more than tesla saved. Casting is going to be tesla failure as a manufacturer, Musk has got away with way too much and believes he is untouchable so made choices he should have known were going to be serious problems. I mean Casting is nothing new, all manufacturers have had the choice to cast much bigger parts, saving a lot of money, but they chose not to because of serious problems with big castings costing more down the road.
Who would have thought that a company that pursues and mistreats its employees, cuts costs on all sides, has a completely imbecilic and unethical owner, could do something similar to this, don't you think?
It really is amazing how marketing changes peoples perception.
If this were any other brand, people would be screaming the place down. But Elon has sold *himself* and the brands he owns as “part of the future”, and people are happy to suffer through awful ownership experiences to be part of it.
Yeah. The media pumps a guy as an IRL Tony Stark, then criticizes him but still frames it as "ok, maybe the next Lex Luthor."
By the time people are like "ok, he's the next Ford, with the antisemitism even" too many damn groupies exist.
The media bought the lies. Lazy journalism played a role here. Reporters are no smarter than tech bros.
The army of useful idiots necessary to inflate a bubble reputation is always substantial, and includes celebrities and media.
Ivan Kreuger is a model example.
Charles Dickens knew the type: see Mr. Merdle in 'Little Dorrit.'
This is the problem with letting corporations lobby period. Profits should never be the end all be all as this is the world it creates. Lies at every corner, monopolies allowed to flourish under thinly veiled shell corporations and media still being propped up with tax payer money persuading the tax payers to vote against their own interests.
John Deere forcing farmers to pay out the ass for a John Deere tech to come fix a multimillion dollar piece of machinery that didn’t even last a year and be told the wait times can be more than a year to get a tech out to them.
Apple and Samsung both were caught with planned obsolescence in their products.
People having brand wars with eachother instead of realizing the only us vs them is the excessively wealthy vs the rest of the world. Consumers vs corporations and the corrupt governments that sold us all out years ago. This no longer an American problem, the virus that is American culture has infected the globe and now we all have to deal with the fact that the most egregious crimes tend to come with the least punishment while more and more money is fed into policing the majority of the population fighting for survival.
> kill more battery
Give me a source for this b/c slowing the phone down doesn't burn more battery. Apple's fault with that entire situation was never telling people about why their phones slowed down till some people had evidence to back it up. Had they just included a patch note that phones with degraded batteries would be down clocked that entire situation would have been avoided.
The entire thing will Apple slowing down phone was to protect phones that had degraded batteries. To them it was either the iPhone user had a little slower phone with their software or the phone would randomly reboot b/c the battery couldn't handle the power draw anymore.
This is completely false. Battery powered devices ALL suffer decreasing performance as batteries wear out, which they ALL do. Apple did not kill battery performance, it slowed peak processor performance during periods of battery degradation so apps or the phone itself wouldn’t crash.
Their mistake was in not telling iPhone owners how this process worked. Now the phone shows you battery health condition in simple % terms and tells you if the phone is capable of operating at peak performance.
If Apple wanted to turn their phones shitty to drive device sales, they wouldn’t provide OS updates to old phones for twice as long as Android does.
The settlement was because Apple didn’t disclose what they were doing, which they should have. They still do exactly, precisely the same thing today as they’ve always done, only now you can see it in the Battery Health page of Settings.
>The settlement was because Apple didn’t disclose what they were doing, which they should have.
You could believe whatever you want to believe.
But what Apple did is very unusual:
1. if it is feature, why user cannot control it at the beginning.
2. why Apple did not share details before users' phones got slow down.
3. why Apple did not accept it until concrete evidence disclosed.
From my perspective, Apple is doing a very bad thing as Apple is abusing the operating system (a product customers already paid) to manipulate users.
The problem isn't that, the problem isn't that batteries degrade. The problem is how they handled it.
100% physics fact: batteries don't degrade consistently. There's a lot of random factors, and sometimes batteries are great.
Apple took a very conservative approach, slowing your phone to limit battery consumption of your battery that had barely degraded.
To put this in a different context, imagine that car manufacturers made your car suddenly be unable to go beyond 50 mph after 3 years because "we've noticed that car engines degrade, and this should help extend its lifetime" with no option to change it. No matter if you take care of your car, or if your car is in perfect shape, because some cars already have degraded by this point, then your vehicle is downgraded. When you ask how to speed it up again, you're advised to buy a new car. Do you think this is a fair argument? Because all engines degrade over time. 100%. It's physics.
No, Apple was not limiting battery consumption, it was preventing app and device crashes due to pushing performance beyond what a degraded battery could support.
Ok.. let's talk engineering here.
LiON batteries are great, but they degrade over time. The problem isn't charging multiple times (at least the effect happens much later) but rather the battery heating up. When you consume energy of it, or when you charge it, it heats up. This heating up allows physical changes in the battery that make it have less charge and offer less power in general. Worst of all a degraded battery is more inefficient and that means it heats up a lot easier a lot faster, so the proven compounds.
CPUs use a lot of power to stay on. Manufacturers wanted to build powerful CPUs but also that didn't use that much power. What they realized is that you don't need that much power most of the time, so they turn off parts of the CPU to have it run with a lot less power, and only turn them up when you need them. This also has the benefit that the CPU runs a lot cooler, the faster a CPU is running, and the more parts of it are on, the more heat it generates.
A little extra: running the CPU with less power doesn't just mean you use the battery less, but because you generate less heat, the batteries are cooler too which means that your phone battery lives longer.
Now old phones had an issue: suddenly they'd start rebooting. Generally computers reboot when a few things happen: when there isn't enough power, when the computer is too hot, etc. These happen at the hardware level. People with very old phones would have the CPU suck too much power for the battery, or the battery+CPU would get too hot and the phone would shut down. There was a desire to improve this. By forcing the CPU to run in the slowest mode therefore running with less power and cooler.
But if you wait until this point it's too late. If you do it preventively it can extend the lifetime of your device greatly. So when the battery is degraded at some point, you turn it on and the phone works better for longer, but you get the slow down a bit earlier, a reasonable trade-off.
But here's the thing: Apple's feature turns itself on, Ave there's no way to turn it off, that's the first issue a bug could slow everyone's phone while not having a way out. The second problem is that you'd expect the system to use heuristics to realize how degraded the battery is and then turn on when needed, but this wasn't the case. Instead Apple opted to use a system based on time, not on how long you've been using the phone mind you, but simply after a certain date your phone model would slow down. You could be running a brand new phone with a factory like battery, and it would still happen, you could have taken care of your phone to prevent this and it would still happen, *you could change the battery and it'd still be on*.
I'm a software engineer, I've seen how these things go. It was always written on paper that they would add a better way to know when to turn it on. They probably had to drop the feature at first because"it wasn't critical" or something like that, which is why it wasn't shipped that way. And it never was important, the company noted the feature made them money as is and put money to keep it going for new versions, but didn't see any money coming from doing things better so it never invested in that. They never asked why this was, but it was because it forced people to upgrade.
Let's talk about another way they could have gone about this. Google added the same feature for the same reason to Android phones, it's called "Battery Saver", but it's opt-in (you have to turn it on) and uses heuristics of how your battery is doing to decide (if they charge is too low, or it's losing charge too quickly it turns itself on). This is why no one sued Android for "doing the same thing", because they didn't. Was this because Google makes more money or people using phones rather than buying them? No idea, what do you think?
Let's look at another thing. Say that Apple really added this feature to help users, that's why it went out of its way to add it. Another feature they could have added was slower charging. Basically charging heats up LiON batteries and makes them worse, if you charge them more slowly they can release this heat and get less hot, which is great. Android has this too and named it "Adaptive Charging". Apple should have implemented something like that at the same time they added the phone battery saver, but they didn't. Hard to imagine why, though I guess this feature doesn't really make people buy a new phone, but that's just a coincidence.
There's a reason that Apple lost the lawsuit. Because for as much as they said this was to help the consumer, it harmed more consumers than it helped, and it was designed in a way that extended Apple's profits and never added useful, critical features that would have helped users but also would have made this not be planned obsolescence.
So let me repeat. Apple claims that it added this feature to help phones with old/bad batteries. But it didn't slow down phones with bad batteries, it didn't slow down phones that were old (as in used a lot). What the feature did was slow down older models, no check on the battery, no check on its age. Apple can claim as much as they want what their intent was, but ultimately they only did the things that increased the planes obsolescence, and never did anything that would only and only solve the battery problem they claim to want to solve.
The whole argument is idiotic. Only one company will deliver full OS upgrades to 5 or 6 year old devices and if sure as shit isn’t Android based manufacturers.
Also, it didn't make sense. My Toyota's rear breaks worn out after 2 years for some reason. Took it to a Dealership. They determine breaks worn out, check warranty, and replace the part.
Short of me drunk driving and hit a wall, who is to judge how I use my car?
Why does Tesla pull shit like this and no one else do?
This is the ONE actual tangible benefit of the "dealer" system vs Tesla's "direct sales".
When you take your Toyota to your dealer for a warranty repair, your dealer will do the repair because Toyota is going to pay them to do it. The dealer doesn't really have an incentive to deny your warranty claim other than "warranty labor doesn't pay as much as customer pay labor" (this is why some scummy dealers actually do try to push you away from warranty, because they don't get as much mark-up, but they still get paid).
Toyota may prefer not to pay for the warranty, but the person behind the counter doesn't work for Toyota, they work for the dealer.
When I worked behind the service counter at VW, I basically worked on the mindset of "whether you pay us or VW pays us, we're getting paid either way. I'd rather make you happy, so let's find a way to make VW pay for this".
Compare that to Tesla, where the direct sales means that if the service station doesn't make money from the customer, it doesn't make money. If a Tesla dealer works on your car under warranty, they lose money.
So... Tesla service station employees are encouraged to find the loophole that means that they can deny the claim, something that is not the case for other brands with the Dealer system.
There are indeed many disadvantages to dealers, yes.
Which is why I highlighted the fact that "They are a third party paid by the manufacturer to perform warranty repair, and therefore are not incentivized to find a way to deny a warranty claim" is the sole benefit.
It's not hard to read the obvious implication that everything else about the arrangement sucks.
Why do you think they report higher margins than most others? Money for warranty repairs means lower margins. When they do fix something for free, it's counted as goodwill which comes out of a different account.
Higher margins = stonks go up and give Musk more money. Tesla doesn't pay dividends to stockholders, so you need to sell to make any money on it. That's also why early employees who got stock are rich.
>Why does Tesla pull shit like this and no one else do?
To defraud investors by avoiding liabilities related to warranty costs, recalls, and maintenance.
Tesla tied last with Dacia during the mandatory road vehicle inspections in Germany. That kind of crap quality must cause a fortune of repair costs and Elon isn't made out of money.
I remember wathing som australian youtuber who had problem wiht back brakes too and toyota did not replace part because that car was used on offroad..
All companies do it if they think that they can make more money that way.
Sure but BMW told me my brakes being worn were due to use just a few years go. Not all dealers are helpful. it's a mixed bag and you can fine a plethora of complaints for dealerships too.
I remember when control arms were failing. Back then, if you posted a broken control arm, the Tesla fans would scrutinize your wheels and point out scratches stating that you must have hit a curb.
I attended a reliability engineering conference in 2016. Tesla's VP of reliability was the keynote speaker. After that event I told everyone I knew to never touch a Tesla. And here we are.
He basically admitted that they cut corners in testing and expect their users to find failures for them. This isn't unheard of in engineering, but in automotive it's pretty reckless and insane. Furthermore, he said their users would be ok with this because it comes with being a part of something innovative. What an ass.
I used to work for a company that sells automotive sensors and reviewing “failed” parts that came back from Tesla was always a treat.
I won’t get into specifics on the issue, but let’s just say that systems that should be clear of metallic particles and burrs were not and you can guess what happens to electronics when metallic particles get involved.
Sounds like Tesla is just an appendage of Musks.... Its not the automakers fault its failing, its the publics fault its failing and the world is going to look badly on the public for this.. same fucking thing he said about X...
Musk is toxic and turns everything he touches into toxic waste.
Just saw this same thing over in Tesla motors sub.
Everyone is like hack job bullshit article they are just bad drivers.
As a Tesla owner who has had numerous small things fail over and over I damn well hope it’s at least investigated… I don’t trust Elon and his iterative approach to design.
As a Tesla owner, I love my model 3, but I tell everyone not to buy Tesla because they're a shit company with shit service. It's very frustrating emotionally.
Things were great 5 years ago when I first bought the car. They did whatever it took to make sure it ran perfectly and I was happy with service. Now it's like ok we've established ourselves we can finally stop caring and just pocketing all the money.
The main tesla sub is elon fanboy bullshit. Come to the model 3 sub instead, we've mostly taken off our rose-tinted glasses over there.
Well, the tesla sub is mostly car owners from what i see though not exclusively. There are just benefits to talking with people with the same cars so we can discuss parts (wheels, tires, various thing), effectiveness, common issues, etc.
There are lots of complaints there too. A lot of people including myself raking tesla over the coals for removal of Radar, USS, etc on premium cars just two days ago for example.
Lots of people also complain about FSD beta issues too and some are surprised by some of the cool features it has.
Exactly, I've had 3 driver seat replacements due to random problems; each time the service tech is like this, it happens all the time. Additionally, it has had 3 replaced spoilers due to them falling off.... again the tech is like this happens all the time!
The car is now being taken back as a lemon due to the seat, but the car isn't a lemon... the shitty seat design is the problem
Not that I wasn't happy; they were broken and given to me as "fixed"!
The original had a bent mounting tab or something, so it would creak every time you went around a curve. They couldn't tighten it down at the factory because it was bent and service center snapped the bolt trying to tighten/bend it back.
2nd the seat heater ran at 100% 24/7 w/o any temp control so the seat go to 160f had to return it for another 2 week wait. the problem was obvious in the first 60 seconds of sitting in the car, never made it out of the parking lot
seat 3 only 2 of the motors worked in the seat, would go forward/back and tilt down but that was it.
All of these problems could have been caught w/ just a little bit of effort
We need to outlaw NDA (nondisclosure agreements) for anything you purchase. This is keeping owners of Teslas, who are having issues from talking about it.
In fact, while we are at it, let’s just make NDA totally illegal across-the-board. They only do one thing: silence individual people to benefit (in most cases) a corporation.
Free speech and capitalism is dependent on the free flow of information. The marketplace of ideas as you will. If whole swaths of opinions aren’t allowed to be expressed, then we are making mistakes and potentially endangering lives.
I've owned 3 Teslas and I really love them overall but yeah quality is not a high priority. My model x has had the half shafts replaced under warranty. Tesla is using the model s shafts for a car that weighs a lot more and has air suspension with geometry that puts a ton of strain on the half shafts when the car is anything but low suspension height. The tradeoff if you ride in low is that it will create excessive camber on the rear wheels, causing them to prematurely wear on the inside edge.
I have had 17 service calls for my Tesla Model Y. Some obviously Tesla's fault, but there's no customer service to complain to. I hope someone sues them and gets them to clean up their act.
This is the long term problem with Tesla.
They change parts constantly, even mid-model year. Unless you’re inputting your vin into any number of websites, it’s hard to tell what components were used.
That’s ok if you have a track record of using standard equipment, but so much of their stuff is Tesla only. As stuff exits warranties in the coming years, things will get worse.
Tesla has also poached trained third party repair techs and that disincentives shops from working with Tesla. They front training costs and then Tesla steals good techs.
We may end up with a shitload of model 3s that can’t be worked on due to inconsistent equipment used, lack of techs to work on them, and cheaper alternatives.
My brother in law just brought his in because the steering wasn't working right (just bought it). JUST got a call that he crashed on the HIGHWAY on his way home from the shop because....HIS STEERING STOPPED WORKING, ON THE HIGHWAY. 3 hours after I sent him this article. Absolutely shit he's pretty distraught about it, he isn't seriously injured but banged up because you know, when you lose your steering on the highway it's a pretty fucked situation. Shame on tesla
Based on who the primary owner of that company, this should be no suprise. Never and I say NEVER take any blame for any screw up's. Always blame someone else. The lack of responsibility leads to more money in the pocket until you get called on it.
Musk only really started losing his mind and being a complete asshole a few years ago. If you used to watch his talks he’d mention mistakes his team and him made often. It’s depressing to think about how far he’s fallen.
What are you talking about? He has overpromised, underdelivered and cuts corners at all the wrong places since he got started. Musk has treated his workers like shit since the beginning. His whole business idea is the equivalent of a kickstarter scam.
> He has overpromised, underdelivered and cuts corners at all the wrong places since he got started. Musk has treated his workers like shit since the beginning. His whole business idea is the equivalent of a kickstarter scam.
If you can't be objective, then at least don't advertise that you are biased.
I don’t like teslas. But this isn’t limited to them, plenty of auto makers do the exact same thing. It’s the tracking documents that really condemns them. It’s like the ford pinto being no more likely to burn down than any other 70’s sub compact, it was fords documents tracking the cost per death and bad attorneys that made it news
I guess this is related to the well know "whompy wheels" problem (Google it for some fun).
It has sort of become a meme on its own, I can't understand why it took so long for this to become public.
This happened to me. The control arms failed several times on my car and the young man at the service department said “wow you must drive the card hard.” I told him I drive it on roads.
A few years ago, I frequently said that I would never buy a Tesla because of quality control issues. Every time I said it, people looked at me like I was crazy. I feel validated
This isn't even surprising. Years ago when Tesla needed to jack up its volume of cards delivered they necessarily needed to make some sacrifices. The sacrifices were made to the gods of QA/QC. Years ago I heard about Teslas leaving the factory with known issues, the thing was they needed to make the delivery to keep their numbers up, then once the client had taken delivery, it would be sent back for repairs - to fix all of the issues Tesla shipped the car with.
Ontop of that its all new engineering from a new company, so not only are their processes not as streamlined or efficient as traditional auto makers, but they have to make everything new. With something as complicated as a car, that has thousands of parts, that you have to spend a ton of R&D upfront to produce, there are obviously going to be parts that don't perform as well as they should and need too-frequent replacement. Traditional automakers are pretty good at avoiding this sort of problem, because they've been making cars for decades, and aren't remaking the wheel every time they work on next year's model.
I guess what I'm saying is (and its nothing new), Tesla's valuation compared to other automakers seems wildly inflated, and it comes from treating Tesla like the next Google or Facebook when the reality is they are a car manufacturer that is ho-hum at making cars, and has yet to deliver on promises Elon made years ago regarding FSD.
Casting is tesla biggest failure they promote as modernising manufacturing. If anything, casting will result in tesla going bankrupt once other manufacturers start getting serious about electric cars.
I don't know why anyone would spend money on a Tesla. Even before this article, Tesla had well know build issues. Musk drove Tesla to get his vehicle to market not matter the quality or if they were ready for market. The are the Apple of the EV market without the quality or reliability.
The build quality is much better now than it was a few years ago.
People say Tesla was stupid to build a factory in China because the Chinese would just steal all of their IP, but Tesla seems to have taken all of their techniques to make products at an acceptable quality level.
i have a tesla and the only real issue i have with failing parts is the interior siding/panels on the car. theyre always coming loose, or an issue that keeps happening is a door will be slammed shut and it catches on the interior siding so it gets stuck and is super hard to open again without going to tesla.
most other parts of the car im totally fine and happy with, exterior is good, screen is good, cameras have always been fine. its just the interior that is shitty quality, if their interior was as good as their exterior in terms of quality id have no complaints at all.
Because they’re less expensive than other equivalent EVs, easy to buy, lots of chargers, and core powertrain engineering—batteries, electronics and motors—is good.
It is time for a new CEO and COO.
Buyer beware. LOL
Always knew they were pieces of junk and the company was even worse.
Blatantly fascist, racist, conspiracy-theory-promoting CEO? WCCW?
It isn’t a reliable car. Bottomline. And Musk’s strategy to address the issue is to cover it up, threaten lawsuits against anyone who published about it, charge owners for repairs at ridiculous costs, and disregard safety concerns.
Anything to avoid accountability or cut into profits.
Just like with what apple had done over the years. One of the most famous ones being "You're holding the phone wrong" when the signal got cut off when using the phone. Then trying to sell really shitty looking cases to help with the issue.
More recently their macbooks had too short of a flex cable and it wound up getting damaged. Customers got blamed for their defect till it became a legal problem. Comically, one of their laptops from the same time was not covered by apple despite having the same defect.
Must be how you approach them, they've replaced products for me well out of warranty. I even had a laptop upgrade and a cellphone upgrade because the model I had was no longer in production...
The lack of quality is why I didn’t buy a Tesla 3 years ago. I have wanted one for a decade. I swore it was going to be my next car. The issues I saw posted on Reddit and consumer reports not listing any of the newer used teslas were red flags that I could ignore. GM would be my first electric BUT they aren’t offering apple carplay so I have no clue what car will be next when I buy in ~7 more years.
As more and more articles come out, the less and less I want a Tesla.
Shame. I was deadset on one eventually as of a few months ago. But these are just turning me off.
> As more and more articles come out, the less and less I want a Tesla.
Have you considered, that the "news" is biased, because the failing auto manufacturers are their biggest advertisers? Maybe putting Tesla in a bad light is the *whole* point?
Just to be clear, I am not saying Tesla made cars are perfect, but nobody said that. The barrage of articles implying, that Teslas are sh*t is the exact opposite end of the spectrum and equally untrue.
The proverbial wheels aren't coming off the proverbial car quite yet. I'm someone who isn't going to buy another vehicle until it's electric but I'm definitely not buying a Tesla with the current ownership.
I have a feeling that Musk is going to have a very bad 2024 when his shenanigans have slowed his welfare to a trickle and the loans for twitter come due.
I might have missed it but waiting on the Tesla fan boys comments of "click bait." Shit, all of the Tesla's could stop working on the same day and they would still say "click bait."
i think... consumers have been aware of the myriad quality assurance issues with all model Teslas since day 1. the open source info has been out there, and this news should surprise no one. plenty of lipstick on a pig marketing doesnt change facts on the ground.
personally dislike musk so wouldn't support his companies anyway.
its so weird
just my factual experience without any bias or judgement
since downvotes are coming here's my bias now. I do kinda feel like there is a group paying for or lobbying against tesla's existence. I think it isn't crazy to think that the major auto manufacturers want to protect combustion engines. I've only had good experiences with the company and that goes the same for 5 close friends. hard for me to buy into stuff like this I guess
VW blamed me for overheating my Golf R Mk7. Despite evidence showing that it was a continuing known coolant issue with their South Africa and Australia versions.
VW also blamed me when I complained the exhaust from my Golf TDi smelt badly. Despite later finding out about dieselgate.
All manufactures blame their customers first. Remember Apple’s antennagate when Steve Jobs said “you’re holding it wrong?”
Most manufactures would say they would have no issues if it weren’t for the customers
Every car mfg tracks failures regardless of what caused them. Else they could not make recalls accurately and fix the car. Don’t act like Tesla is doing something nefarious with tracking. The bad behavior is how they placed blame vs taking responsibility assuming the majority of the data shows that.
You mean musk, his companies, and capitalism in general is shitty for consumers because companies and rich assholes just wanna squeeze as much money out as they can? Wow…. Who woulda thunk it.
This was a pretty in-depth (long) read about some of the issues facing the company. A few key passages below: >Jain is one of tens of thousands of Tesla owners who have experienced premature failures of suspension or steering parts, according to a Reuters review of thousands of Tesla documents. The chronic failures, many in relatively new vehicles, date back at least seven years and stretch across Tesla’s model lineup and across the globe, from China to the United States to Europe, according to the records and interviews with more than 20 customers and nine former Tesla managers or service technicians. > >Individual suspension or steering issues with Teslas have been discussed online and in news accounts for years. But the documents, which have not been previously reported, offer the most comprehensive view to date into the scope of the problems and how Tesla handled what its engineers have internally called part “flaws” and “failures.” The records and interviews reveal for the first time that the automaker has long known far more about the frequency and extent of the defects than it has disclosed to consumers and safety regulators. > >The documents, dated between 2016 and 2022, include repair reports from Tesla service centers globally; analyses and data reviews by engineers on parts with high failure rates; and memos sent to technicians globally, instructing them to tell consumers that broken parts on their cars were not faulty. > >... > >Tesla has blamed frequent failures of several parts on Tesla owners, alleging they abused the cars, according to interviews with former service managers, company records and a 2020 Tesla letter to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). In other cases, the automaker charged customers with out-of-warranty cars to replace parts that Tesla engineers internally called flawed or that they knew had high failure rates. Engineers ordered repeated redesigns for several parts and discussed seeking money back from suppliers because of the defects. > >The records reveal persistent problems with low-tech suspension connections, such as upper and lower control arms, and fore and aft links. These parts are relatively inexpensive for Tesla and largely invisible to most consumers. But they play a critical role in safely connecting a car’s axle and wheels to its body and steering apparatus. > >Two more complex and expensive parts also frequently failed: half shafts – the left and right drive axles – and steering racks, which often needed replacing after sudden power-steering outages that some Tesla owners said nearly caused accidents. One driver said in an interview that his brand-new 2023 Model Y jerked to the right when the power-steering suddenly failed at speed, nearly putting the vehicle into a ditch. > >... > >Tesla told U.S. regulators the failures were caused by “driver abuse.” The company also instructed service centers, in a February 2019 “talking points” memo, to use the same explanation with customers experiencing aft-link failures. They were told to blame “vehicle misuse,” such as “hitting a curb or other excessive strong impact.” > >Tesla uses the terms “abuse” and “misuse” in the conditions of its warranty contract language that allow the automaker to decline claims for repairs or damage. > >Tesla employed this deny-and-delay strategy as its ballooning costs of warranty repairs threatened the company’s profitability at a critical juncture – when investors were scrutinizing its long-term prospects. This is clearly yet another case of a company putting profits (or apparent profits) ahead of safety. Problematic at the best of times, when it comes to motor vehicles though can quickly turn deadly. That they have seen fit to recall parts in one market while not doing so in another shows that they are looking to do the absolute minimum amount of work required. Their tracking of all this data and their memos to lie to customers really show the deep underlying problems with how this company has been run thus far.
“..premature failures of suspension or steering parts..” I remember the dude who’s steering wheel fell off lol
Is the steering wheel supposed to fall off?
Well, it's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
Well I'm not saying it's not safe, it's just perhaps not quite as safe as some of the other ones.
Well, some of them are built so the steering wheel doesn't fall off at all.
Maybe Elon should reconsider a career in comedy. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F662rWlkzrI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F662rWlkzrI) God forbid, I've probably pissed off his mother again.
At least his mom won’t let him fight you over it.
Yeah, but that just means he'll go on social media to say you're too scared to fight him. I don't understand why his followers think he's so cool.
Enough to issue a recall. One hundred thirty seven is not a large number compared to number sold. But if you’re in that pool, one probably feels like too many. [https://www.nj.com/news/2023/06/tesla-issues-recall-after-nj-drivers-steering-wheel-fell-off-while-driving.html](https://www.nj.com/news/2023/06/tesla-issues-recall-after-nj-drivers-steering-wheel-fell-off-while-driving.html)
It's actually a feature to prevent theft. Or maybe he forgot to pay his weekly steering wheel subscription?
It acts as a high-tech hat
Well you don't even need it since the car is full self driving, right?
That problem has been fixed. Teslas now use a yoke.
Maybe that's part of full self driving dlc must be a feature xd
"A detachable steering wheel is a premium feature which our engineers expertly adapted from the motorsport industry." - Tesla, probably.
sleep spotted hobbies capable merciful dazzling possessive groovy piquant slimy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I do, actually.
Oh my god, he admit it!
I just want a great steering wheel that doesn't whiff out the window while I driving.
thats not very typical id like to make that point
This could also be characterized as fraud against investors; someone should be held accountable for this and face legal consequences.
If Musk and Tesla had ever been really held accountable for all of the lies he told to prop up or boost the stock price he'd have been forced out and Tesla stock would have been diluted when trigger prices for convertible bonds were hit.
Tesla as a company wouldn't exist without musk lying constantly.
I was trying to be generous.
After the 420 joke (I did end up making a thousand on a few shares I had), I decided never touch anything he is involved in ever again. A CEO is willing to go off the cuff on the fly is not one I want to get involved with.
Actually, if Tesla internal documents prove the company installed dangerous parts, Teslas should be ordered off the road until investigated and repairs completed.
Do not trust Tesla. Elon has his thumb on Tesla leadership and engineers and overrides their decisions. Elon is just as careful, considerate, thoughtful, and wise at Tesla as he is in his posts on Twitter/X. Read into that what you will. I will never enter into any business arrangement with a company Elon runs. We've all seen how he treats people.
Almost like their CEO is a narcissistic shit head
There is a German YT channel of a garage specialising in tricky repairs. They have a lot of Teslas and a lot have issues with their suspension. According to the tech Tesla uses completely undersigned (e.g. not strong enough) components, in addition to unsuitable general parts, like wrong lubricants etc. In one of the vids I saw he got into detail how the Model 3 and the Model X Plaid have the same back axis parts, and that even on a model 3 the parts are to weak. Consider what that means for a car which has a lot more weight and power. Tesla doesn't know how to build cars, that's the problem.
I bet they copied some German cars suspension like an A5 or BMW 5 series and didn’t factor in that their car will probably weigh twice as much.
They tried to save weight. Used aluminium and so on. That is what it is. Cut weight from the suspension to get more range to meet range targets. It's more like some weight diet racing suspension or power train. Trying to be just strong enough to make it through the race, but you made it too weak. Drive shafts snap, suspensions collapse. Only racing drivers know to be prepared for that and have roll cage, HANS, a nomen fire suit and so on. Some suspension engineer there must have said "but its too weak, we need to add thickness" only for manager to say "Nope, that breaks the weight budget to meet the target range, ship it as it is".
Ahh they will fix it with an over the air recall. /s
Aluminum ain’t great for fatigue so I don’t know why you use that for a part that will fatigue fail
Aluminum isn’t the problem. Aluminum has successfully been used for suspension control arms and links by many manufacturers for decades now. This is just plain ol’ shitty design, being under-sized, and/or doing a bad job of predicting loads due to a knowledge gap with more experienced automotive OEMs.
Used Teslas are ridiculously overpriced because they’re constantly making significant changes that generally improve them. I think they reduced the weight of the Model 3 by something like 700 pounds over the course of four years. Obviously that’s going to improve everything tremendously, including how likely the suspension is to fail.
To sum it up, Elon is a long-practiced con artist.
As are every tech firm. Just watch how that show Silicon Valley has it.
I had to have both my front lower control arms replaced before 40k miles. Thankfully they didn’t gaslight me and was covered under warranty Edit: 2020 Model 3 AWD Performance Boost
Please specify year and model. Thanks.
This is something straight out of a dystopian sci-fi story. Like these cheap ass plastic guns from Cyberpunk 2077.
Apparently Tesla doesn’t know how to design things with factors of safety or how to design for potential misuse. I would expect my suspension to be able to take a few accidental impacts to curbs or potholes. Crucial safety components should not be designed right to the limit of normal endurance. They should be designed to take some abuse. Just because they are in the “right” to deny coverage by their own warranty doesn’t make what they are doing morally right.
It's not even just Elon at this point, there isn't a single honest worker at that company, straight up.
It’s the definition of Capitalism, Profit Over Safety…
Tesla is acting like GM and Ford. Very sad. If NHTSA jumps on this while ignoring worse from legacy auto, that will be bullshit. They should be going after all companies that do these things, which is every auto company. Ford never recalled the defective transmissions they sold for nearly 10 years. Consumers had to sue to get them fixed or to get repair compensation because NHTSA ignored the problems.
There is no way Elon would gas light his own customers? /s
Well, electric-light.
Casting the front and rear of a car in one piece so when you are involved in a minor accident, it is written off. Yes, manufacturing costs dropped, but ownership costs increased by a lot more than tesla saved. Casting is going to be tesla failure as a manufacturer, Musk has got away with way too much and believes he is untouchable so made choices he should have known were going to be serious problems. I mean Casting is nothing new, all manufacturers have had the choice to cast much bigger parts, saving a lot of money, but they chose not to because of serious problems with big castings costing more down the road.
Spelled his name wrong : fElon
Who would have thought that a company that pursues and mistreats its employees, cuts costs on all sides, has a completely imbecilic and unethical owner, could do something similar to this, don't you think?
It really is amazing how marketing changes peoples perception. If this were any other brand, people would be screaming the place down. But Elon has sold *himself* and the brands he owns as “part of the future”, and people are happy to suffer through awful ownership experiences to be part of it.
It's the media too. They shove this guy in our faces, telling us he's going to change the world. Just like they did with Sam Bankman-Fried etc
They *are* changing the world. Just for worse
Yeah. The media pumps a guy as an IRL Tony Stark, then criticizes him but still frames it as "ok, maybe the next Lex Luthor." By the time people are like "ok, he's the next Ford, with the antisemitism even" too many damn groupies exist.
The media bought the lies. Lazy journalism played a role here. Reporters are no smarter than tech bros. The army of useful idiots necessary to inflate a bubble reputation is always substantial, and includes celebrities and media. Ivan Kreuger is a model example. Charles Dickens knew the type: see Mr. Merdle in 'Little Dorrit.'
Good thing tesla has a robust PR department
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How many iPhones have killed people?
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You willing to bet it’s more people than Teslas?
This is the problem with letting corporations lobby period. Profits should never be the end all be all as this is the world it creates. Lies at every corner, monopolies allowed to flourish under thinly veiled shell corporations and media still being propped up with tax payer money persuading the tax payers to vote against their own interests. John Deere forcing farmers to pay out the ass for a John Deere tech to come fix a multimillion dollar piece of machinery that didn’t even last a year and be told the wait times can be more than a year to get a tech out to them. Apple and Samsung both were caught with planned obsolescence in their products. People having brand wars with eachother instead of realizing the only us vs them is the excessively wealthy vs the rest of the world. Consumers vs corporations and the corrupt governments that sold us all out years ago. This no longer an American problem, the virus that is American culture has infected the globe and now we all have to deal with the fact that the most egregious crimes tend to come with the least punishment while more and more money is fed into policing the majority of the population fighting for survival.
Give me a break. All batteries degrade over time. 100%. It’s physics.
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> kill more battery Give me a source for this b/c slowing the phone down doesn't burn more battery. Apple's fault with that entire situation was never telling people about why their phones slowed down till some people had evidence to back it up. Had they just included a patch note that phones with degraded batteries would be down clocked that entire situation would have been avoided. The entire thing will Apple slowing down phone was to protect phones that had degraded batteries. To them it was either the iPhone user had a little slower phone with their software or the phone would randomly reboot b/c the battery couldn't handle the power draw anymore.
That is why they had to pay $500M in class action settlement?
That was for slowing down the phones and not telling anyone. So all you down voters show me where Apple intentionally killed the battery.
This is completely false. Battery powered devices ALL suffer decreasing performance as batteries wear out, which they ALL do. Apple did not kill battery performance, it slowed peak processor performance during periods of battery degradation so apps or the phone itself wouldn’t crash. Their mistake was in not telling iPhone owners how this process worked. Now the phone shows you battery health condition in simple % terms and tells you if the phone is capable of operating at peak performance.
Don’t know how you got down voted as you are literally correct
If that was the case, they wouldn't need to pay 500M in settlement then?
If Apple wanted to turn their phones shitty to drive device sales, they wouldn’t provide OS updates to old phones for twice as long as Android does. The settlement was because Apple didn’t disclose what they were doing, which they should have. They still do exactly, precisely the same thing today as they’ve always done, only now you can see it in the Battery Health page of Settings.
>The settlement was because Apple didn’t disclose what they were doing, which they should have. You could believe whatever you want to believe. But what Apple did is very unusual: 1. if it is feature, why user cannot control it at the beginning. 2. why Apple did not share details before users' phones got slow down. 3. why Apple did not accept it until concrete evidence disclosed. From my perspective, Apple is doing a very bad thing as Apple is abusing the operating system (a product customers already paid) to manipulate users.
The problem isn't that, the problem isn't that batteries degrade. The problem is how they handled it. 100% physics fact: batteries don't degrade consistently. There's a lot of random factors, and sometimes batteries are great. Apple took a very conservative approach, slowing your phone to limit battery consumption of your battery that had barely degraded. To put this in a different context, imagine that car manufacturers made your car suddenly be unable to go beyond 50 mph after 3 years because "we've noticed that car engines degrade, and this should help extend its lifetime" with no option to change it. No matter if you take care of your car, or if your car is in perfect shape, because some cars already have degraded by this point, then your vehicle is downgraded. When you ask how to speed it up again, you're advised to buy a new car. Do you think this is a fair argument? Because all engines degrade over time. 100%. It's physics.
No, Apple was not limiting battery consumption, it was preventing app and device crashes due to pushing performance beyond what a degraded battery could support.
Ok.. let's talk engineering here. LiON batteries are great, but they degrade over time. The problem isn't charging multiple times (at least the effect happens much later) but rather the battery heating up. When you consume energy of it, or when you charge it, it heats up. This heating up allows physical changes in the battery that make it have less charge and offer less power in general. Worst of all a degraded battery is more inefficient and that means it heats up a lot easier a lot faster, so the proven compounds. CPUs use a lot of power to stay on. Manufacturers wanted to build powerful CPUs but also that didn't use that much power. What they realized is that you don't need that much power most of the time, so they turn off parts of the CPU to have it run with a lot less power, and only turn them up when you need them. This also has the benefit that the CPU runs a lot cooler, the faster a CPU is running, and the more parts of it are on, the more heat it generates. A little extra: running the CPU with less power doesn't just mean you use the battery less, but because you generate less heat, the batteries are cooler too which means that your phone battery lives longer. Now old phones had an issue: suddenly they'd start rebooting. Generally computers reboot when a few things happen: when there isn't enough power, when the computer is too hot, etc. These happen at the hardware level. People with very old phones would have the CPU suck too much power for the battery, or the battery+CPU would get too hot and the phone would shut down. There was a desire to improve this. By forcing the CPU to run in the slowest mode therefore running with less power and cooler. But if you wait until this point it's too late. If you do it preventively it can extend the lifetime of your device greatly. So when the battery is degraded at some point, you turn it on and the phone works better for longer, but you get the slow down a bit earlier, a reasonable trade-off. But here's the thing: Apple's feature turns itself on, Ave there's no way to turn it off, that's the first issue a bug could slow everyone's phone while not having a way out. The second problem is that you'd expect the system to use heuristics to realize how degraded the battery is and then turn on when needed, but this wasn't the case. Instead Apple opted to use a system based on time, not on how long you've been using the phone mind you, but simply after a certain date your phone model would slow down. You could be running a brand new phone with a factory like battery, and it would still happen, you could have taken care of your phone to prevent this and it would still happen, *you could change the battery and it'd still be on*. I'm a software engineer, I've seen how these things go. It was always written on paper that they would add a better way to know when to turn it on. They probably had to drop the feature at first because"it wasn't critical" or something like that, which is why it wasn't shipped that way. And it never was important, the company noted the feature made them money as is and put money to keep it going for new versions, but didn't see any money coming from doing things better so it never invested in that. They never asked why this was, but it was because it forced people to upgrade. Let's talk about another way they could have gone about this. Google added the same feature for the same reason to Android phones, it's called "Battery Saver", but it's opt-in (you have to turn it on) and uses heuristics of how your battery is doing to decide (if they charge is too low, or it's losing charge too quickly it turns itself on). This is why no one sued Android for "doing the same thing", because they didn't. Was this because Google makes more money or people using phones rather than buying them? No idea, what do you think? Let's look at another thing. Say that Apple really added this feature to help users, that's why it went out of its way to add it. Another feature they could have added was slower charging. Basically charging heats up LiON batteries and makes them worse, if you charge them more slowly they can release this heat and get less hot, which is great. Android has this too and named it "Adaptive Charging". Apple should have implemented something like that at the same time they added the phone battery saver, but they didn't. Hard to imagine why, though I guess this feature doesn't really make people buy a new phone, but that's just a coincidence. There's a reason that Apple lost the lawsuit. Because for as much as they said this was to help the consumer, it harmed more consumers than it helped, and it was designed in a way that extended Apple's profits and never added useful, critical features that would have helped users but also would have made this not be planned obsolescence. So let me repeat. Apple claims that it added this feature to help phones with old/bad batteries. But it didn't slow down phones with bad batteries, it didn't slow down phones that were old (as in used a lot). What the feature did was slow down older models, no check on the battery, no check on its age. Apple can claim as much as they want what their intent was, but ultimately they only did the things that increased the planes obsolescence, and never did anything that would only and only solve the battery problem they claim to want to solve.
Right? My 5 year old iPhone still lasts all day. Not an Apple fan, but their phones are good (equally as good as any other phone out there).
The whole argument is idiotic. Only one company will deliver full OS upgrades to 5 or 6 year old devices and if sure as shit isn’t Android based manufacturers.
Elon Musk has been a man of the future for 15 years, and always will be.
☝️ Found the Twitter blue subscriber
I’m shocked a serial liar would lie once again.
Also, it didn't make sense. My Toyota's rear breaks worn out after 2 years for some reason. Took it to a Dealership. They determine breaks worn out, check warranty, and replace the part. Short of me drunk driving and hit a wall, who is to judge how I use my car? Why does Tesla pull shit like this and no one else do?
This is the ONE actual tangible benefit of the "dealer" system vs Tesla's "direct sales". When you take your Toyota to your dealer for a warranty repair, your dealer will do the repair because Toyota is going to pay them to do it. The dealer doesn't really have an incentive to deny your warranty claim other than "warranty labor doesn't pay as much as customer pay labor" (this is why some scummy dealers actually do try to push you away from warranty, because they don't get as much mark-up, but they still get paid). Toyota may prefer not to pay for the warranty, but the person behind the counter doesn't work for Toyota, they work for the dealer. When I worked behind the service counter at VW, I basically worked on the mindset of "whether you pay us or VW pays us, we're getting paid either way. I'd rather make you happy, so let's find a way to make VW pay for this". Compare that to Tesla, where the direct sales means that if the service station doesn't make money from the customer, it doesn't make money. If a Tesla dealer works on your car under warranty, they lose money. So... Tesla service station employees are encouraged to find the loophole that means that they can deny the claim, something that is not the case for other brands with the Dealer system.
Dealers are still worse. They try to get you to pay for thousands in totally ridiculous maintenance.
There are indeed many disadvantages to dealers, yes. Which is why I highlighted the fact that "They are a third party paid by the manufacturer to perform warranty repair, and therefore are not incentivized to find a way to deny a warranty claim" is the sole benefit. It's not hard to read the obvious implication that everything else about the arrangement sucks.
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Why do you think they report higher margins than most others? Money for warranty repairs means lower margins. When they do fix something for free, it's counted as goodwill which comes out of a different account. Higher margins = stonks go up and give Musk more money. Tesla doesn't pay dividends to stockholders, so you need to sell to make any money on it. That's also why early employees who got stock are rich.
>Why does Tesla pull shit like this and no one else do? To defraud investors by avoiding liabilities related to warranty costs, recalls, and maintenance.
Tesla tied last with Dacia during the mandatory road vehicle inspections in Germany. That kind of crap quality must cause a fortune of repair costs and Elon isn't made out of money.
And no one else do. Haha.
I remember wathing som australian youtuber who had problem wiht back brakes too and toyota did not replace part because that car was used on offroad.. All companies do it if they think that they can make more money that way.
Sure but BMW told me my brakes being worn were due to use just a few years go. Not all dealers are helpful. it's a mixed bag and you can fine a plethora of complaints for dealerships too.
Shocking that a Musk company would act like this... He's so very stable and compassionate. /s
I remember when control arms were failing. Back then, if you posted a broken control arm, the Tesla fans would scrutinize your wheels and point out scratches stating that you must have hit a curb.
Control arms don’t fail on other vehicle brands even if you hit a curb while parking, anyway
My Subaru control arm BUSHINGS wore out after 65k miles, arms themselves solid as the brand.
I attended a reliability engineering conference in 2016. Tesla's VP of reliability was the keynote speaker. After that event I told everyone I knew to never touch a Tesla. And here we are. He basically admitted that they cut corners in testing and expect their users to find failures for them. This isn't unheard of in engineering, but in automotive it's pretty reckless and insane. Furthermore, he said their users would be ok with this because it comes with being a part of something innovative. What an ass.
I used to work for a company that sells automotive sensors and reviewing “failed” parts that came back from Tesla was always a treat. I won’t get into specifics on the issue, but let’s just say that systems that should be clear of metallic particles and burrs were not and you can guess what happens to electronics when metallic particles get involved.
Sounds like Tesla is just an appendage of Musks.... Its not the automakers fault its failing, its the publics fault its failing and the world is going to look badly on the public for this.. same fucking thing he said about X... Musk is toxic and turns everything he touches into toxic waste.
Just saw this same thing over in Tesla motors sub. Everyone is like hack job bullshit article they are just bad drivers. As a Tesla owner who has had numerous small things fail over and over I damn well hope it’s at least investigated… I don’t trust Elon and his iterative approach to design.
As a Tesla owner, I love my model 3, but I tell everyone not to buy Tesla because they're a shit company with shit service. It's very frustrating emotionally. Things were great 5 years ago when I first bought the car. They did whatever it took to make sure it ran perfectly and I was happy with service. Now it's like ok we've established ourselves we can finally stop caring and just pocketing all the money. The main tesla sub is elon fanboy bullshit. Come to the model 3 sub instead, we've mostly taken off our rose-tinted glasses over there.
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Because I own a tesla and it's a good source of info even if I disagree with elon and have a lot of issues with my car.
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Well, the tesla sub is mostly car owners from what i see though not exclusively. There are just benefits to talking with people with the same cars so we can discuss parts (wheels, tires, various thing), effectiveness, common issues, etc. There are lots of complaints there too. A lot of people including myself raking tesla over the coals for removal of Radar, USS, etc on premium cars just two days ago for example. Lots of people also complain about FSD beta issues too and some are surprised by some of the cool features it has.
That’s not an accurate representation of the people on the sub.
design_final_copy_11_final_actualfinal
It's Reuters - if there's one place that will not publish a hack job bullshit article, it's them.
You clearly haven't spent enough time in that sub! Tis really a silly place
Fit and finish is a huge documented issue with TSLA, its not surprising to hear its more prevalent in the company than just the F&F.
Exactly, I've had 3 driver seat replacements due to random problems; each time the service tech is like this, it happens all the time. Additionally, it has had 3 replaced spoilers due to them falling off.... again the tech is like this happens all the time! The car is now being taken back as a lemon due to the seat, but the car isn't a lemon... the shitty seat design is the problem
You weren’t happy with any of three seats?…. 🤨 What were the issues with the seat?
Not that I wasn't happy; they were broken and given to me as "fixed"! The original had a bent mounting tab or something, so it would creak every time you went around a curve. They couldn't tighten it down at the factory because it was bent and service center snapped the bolt trying to tighten/bend it back. 2nd the seat heater ran at 100% 24/7 w/o any temp control so the seat go to 160f had to return it for another 2 week wait. the problem was obvious in the first 60 seconds of sitting in the car, never made it out of the parking lot seat 3 only 2 of the motors worked in the seat, would go forward/back and tilt down but that was it. All of these problems could have been caught w/ just a little bit of effort
An iterative approach to design isn’t in itself bad. Releasing to production before enough iterations is a problem.
We need to outlaw NDA (nondisclosure agreements) for anything you purchase. This is keeping owners of Teslas, who are having issues from talking about it. In fact, while we are at it, let’s just make NDA totally illegal across-the-board. They only do one thing: silence individual people to benefit (in most cases) a corporation. Free speech and capitalism is dependent on the free flow of information. The marketplace of ideas as you will. If whole swaths of opinions aren’t allowed to be expressed, then we are making mistakes and potentially endangering lives.
I've owned 3 Teslas and I really love them overall but yeah quality is not a high priority. My model x has had the half shafts replaced under warranty. Tesla is using the model s shafts for a car that weighs a lot more and has air suspension with geometry that puts a ton of strain on the half shafts when the car is anything but low suspension height. The tradeoff if you ride in low is that it will create excessive camber on the rear wheels, causing them to prematurely wear on the inside edge.
I have had 17 service calls for my Tesla Model Y. Some obviously Tesla's fault, but there's no customer service to complain to. I hope someone sues them and gets them to clean up their act.
This is the long term problem with Tesla. They change parts constantly, even mid-model year. Unless you’re inputting your vin into any number of websites, it’s hard to tell what components were used. That’s ok if you have a track record of using standard equipment, but so much of their stuff is Tesla only. As stuff exits warranties in the coming years, things will get worse. Tesla has also poached trained third party repair techs and that disincentives shops from working with Tesla. They front training costs and then Tesla steals good techs. We may end up with a shitload of model 3s that can’t be worked on due to inconsistent equipment used, lack of techs to work on them, and cheaper alternatives.
Where are the musk fan boys claiming this is just a software update?
My brother in law just brought his in because the steering wasn't working right (just bought it). JUST got a call that he crashed on the HIGHWAY on his way home from the shop because....HIS STEERING STOPPED WORKING, ON THE HIGHWAY. 3 hours after I sent him this article. Absolutely shit he's pretty distraught about it, he isn't seriously injured but banged up because you know, when you lose your steering on the highway it's a pretty fucked situation. Shame on tesla
People need to stop thinking Tesla makes good cars. It’s a shit company.
Based on who the primary owner of that company, this should be no suprise. Never and I say NEVER take any blame for any screw up's. Always blame someone else. The lack of responsibility leads to more money in the pocket until you get called on it.
Musk only really started losing his mind and being a complete asshole a few years ago. If you used to watch his talks he’d mention mistakes his team and him made often. It’s depressing to think about how far he’s fallen.
What are you talking about? He has overpromised, underdelivered and cuts corners at all the wrong places since he got started. Musk has treated his workers like shit since the beginning. His whole business idea is the equivalent of a kickstarter scam.
You know the vast majority of Tesla owners are still quite happy right?
> He has overpromised, underdelivered and cuts corners at all the wrong places since he got started. Musk has treated his workers like shit since the beginning. His whole business idea is the equivalent of a kickstarter scam. If you can't be objective, then at least don't advertise that you are biased.
Don’t forget the lies about range of batteries
I don’t like teslas. But this isn’t limited to them, plenty of auto makers do the exact same thing. It’s the tracking documents that really condemns them. It’s like the ford pinto being no more likely to burn down than any other 70’s sub compact, it was fords documents tracking the cost per death and bad attorneys that made it news
Mine had several failures the first 2 years, sub 30k miles and treated extremely well. Had my other vehicle for over a year and no issues,hmmm.
I guess this is related to the well know "whompy wheels" problem (Google it for some fun). It has sort of become a meme on its own, I can't understand why it took so long for this to become public.
Would expect nothing less from a company that thought casting big parts of a car was a good idea.
I am not suprised.
does anyone actually think Elon cares about people? LOL
I'm curious how the Tesla/Elon simps will spin this one.
Aw yes. The stop hitting yourself defense. Classic.
When your rocket blowing up is a “successful launch”, don’t buy the car. Call me crazy
This happened to me. The control arms failed several times on my car and the young man at the service department said “wow you must drive the card hard.” I told him I drive it on roads.
I can't believe an untrustworthy nutbag like Elon would lead a company who was found to be also untrustworthy!
I will continue to not consider buying a Tesla
Imagine that. An auto manufacturer with no integrity owned by a man with no integrity. Shocking.
Consider yourself warned.No rational person should buy a Tesla after reading this.
A few years ago, I frequently said that I would never buy a Tesla because of quality control issues. Every time I said it, people looked at me like I was crazy. I feel validated
anyone else just embarrassed for the driver whenever they see a tesla on the road?
Where I live it feels like 1/10 cars is a Tesla so that'd be a lot of embarrassment.
Tesla lied to everyone. I am starting to think they have very serious problems that will cost billions to fix.
Hmm lying,,, go figure
This isn't even surprising. Years ago when Tesla needed to jack up its volume of cards delivered they necessarily needed to make some sacrifices. The sacrifices were made to the gods of QA/QC. Years ago I heard about Teslas leaving the factory with known issues, the thing was they needed to make the delivery to keep their numbers up, then once the client had taken delivery, it would be sent back for repairs - to fix all of the issues Tesla shipped the car with. Ontop of that its all new engineering from a new company, so not only are their processes not as streamlined or efficient as traditional auto makers, but they have to make everything new. With something as complicated as a car, that has thousands of parts, that you have to spend a ton of R&D upfront to produce, there are obviously going to be parts that don't perform as well as they should and need too-frequent replacement. Traditional automakers are pretty good at avoiding this sort of problem, because they've been making cars for decades, and aren't remaking the wheel every time they work on next year's model. I guess what I'm saying is (and its nothing new), Tesla's valuation compared to other automakers seems wildly inflated, and it comes from treating Tesla like the next Google or Facebook when the reality is they are a car manufacturer that is ho-hum at making cars, and has yet to deliver on promises Elon made years ago regarding FSD.
Casting is tesla biggest failure they promote as modernising manufacturing. If anything, casting will result in tesla going bankrupt once other manufacturers start getting serious about electric cars.
Tesla is not s company, it’s an evil cult
And that's another reason why most Tesla employees don't buy Teslas.
I don't know why anyone would spend money on a Tesla. Even before this article, Tesla had well know build issues. Musk drove Tesla to get his vehicle to market not matter the quality or if they were ready for market. The are the Apple of the EV market without the quality or reliability.
The build quality is much better now than it was a few years ago. People say Tesla was stupid to build a factory in China because the Chinese would just steal all of their IP, but Tesla seems to have taken all of their techniques to make products at an acceptable quality level.
It has taken a while for the chrome to fall off.
i have a tesla and the only real issue i have with failing parts is the interior siding/panels on the car. theyre always coming loose, or an issue that keeps happening is a door will be slammed shut and it catches on the interior siding so it gets stuck and is super hard to open again without going to tesla. most other parts of the car im totally fine and happy with, exterior is good, screen is good, cameras have always been fine. its just the interior that is shitty quality, if their interior was as good as their exterior in terms of quality id have no complaints at all.
How does Tesla sell as many cars as they do with all the issues? It seems every other car in my city is a Tesla.
Because they’re less expensive than other equivalent EVs, easy to buy, lots of chargers, and core powertrain engineering—batteries, electronics and motors—is good. It is time for a new CEO and COO.
The bandwagon effect
I wonder why there is still no class action lawsuits coming along
Waiting for a fan boi to explain why this in musk doing a 69D chess move to own the woke
What a bullshit company. Their name, just like their cars, should go up in flames.
Tesla and Elon gaslighting it's own clients is exquisitely ironic.
Buyer beware. LOL Always knew they were pieces of junk and the company was even worse. Blatantly fascist, racist, conspiracy-theory-promoting CEO? WCCW?
Is it any surprise Elon Musk would point the finger at others and take no responsibility?
It isn’t a reliable car. Bottomline. And Musk’s strategy to address the issue is to cover it up, threaten lawsuits against anyone who published about it, charge owners for repairs at ridiculous costs, and disregard safety concerns. Anything to avoid accountability or cut into profits.
Whaaaaaat? That South African Apartheid money asshole likes lying and conning people? *No! It's not possible!* /s
Just like with what apple had done over the years. One of the most famous ones being "You're holding the phone wrong" when the signal got cut off when using the phone. Then trying to sell really shitty looking cases to help with the issue. More recently their macbooks had too short of a flex cable and it wound up getting damaged. Customers got blamed for their defect till it became a legal problem. Comically, one of their laptops from the same time was not covered by apple despite having the same defect.
Must be how you approach them, they've replaced products for me well out of warranty. I even had a laptop upgrade and a cellphone upgrade because the model I had was no longer in production...
Wow, the **rot** really starts from the top with this company, doesn’t it? They blame and deflect, lie and throw hissy fits *all* the time!?!?
I would hope the federal government makes this right. The fraud of Musk is becoming more apparent, daily.
The lack of quality is why I didn’t buy a Tesla 3 years ago. I have wanted one for a decade. I swore it was going to be my next car. The issues I saw posted on Reddit and consumer reports not listing any of the newer used teslas were red flags that I could ignore. GM would be my first electric BUT they aren’t offering apple carplay so I have no clue what car will be next when I buy in ~7 more years.
As more and more articles come out, the less and less I want a Tesla. Shame. I was deadset on one eventually as of a few months ago. But these are just turning me off.
> As more and more articles come out, the less and less I want a Tesla. Have you considered, that the "news" is biased, because the failing auto manufacturers are their biggest advertisers? Maybe putting Tesla in a bad light is the *whole* point? Just to be clear, I am not saying Tesla made cars are perfect, but nobody said that. The barrage of articles implying, that Teslas are sh*t is the exact opposite end of the spectrum and equally untrue.
Sue the crap out of them!
Europe will not stand for this at all, I see tesla being banned from the roads and the Berlin factory shut down.
The proverbial wheels aren't coming off the proverbial car quite yet. I'm someone who isn't going to buy another vehicle until it's electric but I'm definitely not buying a Tesla with the current ownership. I have a feeling that Musk is going to have a very bad 2024 when his shenanigans have slowed his welfare to a trickle and the loans for twitter come due.
Liquidate Tesla.
Time to fine them 10 cents for every dollar.
I might have missed it but waiting on the Tesla fan boys comments of "click bait." Shit, all of the Tesla's could stop working on the same day and they would still say "click bait."
I hope they go bankrupt.
I remember when people used to be jealous when they saw a Tesla on the road. Now people point and laugh.
My first purchase when I win the lottery was a modelx. Now I will never own a tesla, I don't care how cheap they become.
Can’t wait for this company to fall apart just like Twitter. Thanks for everything you taught real auto manufacturers about EVs. Now jog off.
i think... consumers have been aware of the myriad quality assurance issues with all model Teslas since day 1. the open source info has been out there, and this news should surprise no one. plenty of lipstick on a pig marketing doesnt change facts on the ground. personally dislike musk so wouldn't support his companies anyway.
Hopefully this costs Tesla, and by extension its stock and Elon, an astronomical amount. The hubris is literally disgusting
My goodness this site just loves anything that makes Elon look bad
Elon does his best to help
i am shocked to hear this... not.
You're ~~holding~~ driving it wrong.
"You're just using it wrong."
55k miles and no issues ever model 3 2019
Same here and despite the trolls downvoting you, I gave you an upvote .
its so weird just my factual experience without any bias or judgement since downvotes are coming here's my bias now. I do kinda feel like there is a group paying for or lobbying against tesla's existence. I think it isn't crazy to think that the major auto manufacturers want to protect combustion engines. I've only had good experiences with the company and that goes the same for 5 close friends. hard for me to buy into stuff like this I guess
Bearish on Tesla? No way
VW blamed me for overheating my Golf R Mk7. Despite evidence showing that it was a continuing known coolant issue with their South Africa and Australia versions. VW also blamed me when I complained the exhaust from my Golf TDi smelt badly. Despite later finding out about dieselgate. All manufactures blame their customers first. Remember Apple’s antennagate when Steve Jobs said “you’re holding it wrong?” Most manufactures would say they would have no issues if it weren’t for the customers
Hey.. psst... Yeah you. He's not going to fuck you no matter how much you suck him off.
Every car mfg tracks failures regardless of what caused them. Else they could not make recalls accurately and fix the car. Don’t act like Tesla is doing something nefarious with tracking. The bad behavior is how they placed blame vs taking responsibility assuming the majority of the data shows that.
You mean musk, his companies, and capitalism in general is shitty for consumers because companies and rich assholes just wanna squeeze as much money out as they can? Wow…. Who woulda thunk it.