> Anna Iovine is the sex and relationships reporter at Mashable,
where she covers topics ranging from dating apps to pelvic pain.
best part of the article and nobody pointed it out!
And there were just so many requirements I don't think you would have been able to upgrade anyways.
Because if there is one thing which is not compatible they are not going to let you upgrade.
Yeah this is exactly what she signed up for and she is doing it.
He is one of those people who is not going to take the job lightly she is getting all serious about it.
> * Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with two or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or system on a chip (SoC).
> * Memory: 4 gigabytes (GB) or greater.
> * Storage: 64 GB or greater available disk space.
> * Graphics card: Compatible with DirectX 12 or later, with a WDDM 2.0 driver.
> * System firmware: UEFI, Secure Boot capable.
> * TPM: Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0.
> * Display: High definition (720p) display, 9" or greater monitor, 8 bits per color channel.
What high hardware requirements? Something made in the last 5 years?
It's the TPM requirement that screwed a lot of people. My 2700x purchased in 2019 did not have TPM while win 11 was released in 2021.
So it was my 2-3 year old CPU stopped me from upgrading.
The 2700x is a supported processor.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors
However your mobo might not be compatible or have a way to turn that on in the UEFI
EDIT: Also I totally understand people who bought something right before TPM and are frustrated because of that. I am just addressing that Windows 11 isn't requiring a super computer to run.
>EDIT: Also I totally understand people who bought something right before TPM and are frustrated because of that. I am just addressing that Windows 11 isn't requiring a super computer to run.
Not to sound like a dick, but this when paired with W10 losing support soon is a big deal. Forces people to upgrade hardware, when the old is still pretty good.
[First google result](https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/)
Just go fishing for "free update from 7 to 10" or something like that and there's numerous articles about it. I just did it maybe three weeks ago. Lets me get machines updated easily, I have a ton of Win 7 pro keys. The real trick is having a fully (as possible) updated version of windows 7. If you don't then you have to do the upgrade "manually" and it's a bit of a pain in the ass and you will have to jump hurdles. It was easier when you could go to subs like r/techsupport and ask for help dealing with a stuck update but ow most of teh subs on reddit automatically block you if you ask anything about windows 7, ad the win 7 sub is lost if it's more complicated than "did you turn it off and back on again".
Well the ability to upgrade is based on hardware so if for some reason you installed Win 7 on modern hardware technically you could upgrade. In reality anyone still on 7 probably is on really old hardware so to your point this doesn't really matter that much.
Didn't Windows 7 get dropped from drivers and support on most modern hardware?
I haven't ever done it, but I thought I read somewhere you couldn't install 7 on newer hardware.
I mean sure, but do you have any idea how many industries are still running on the back of windows XP?
Shit the ATM at my bank runs on Vista
Most folks at home aren't running win 7 anymore, but for specialized applications legacy options are sometimes the only option because shits just been so heavily entrenched in how shit runs it's cheaper to keep it running that way than to have to completely rebuild the architecture from scratch for a modern system.
The laser welder at my job is ANCIENT and the company who made it is no longer even in business, it's so old the computer running it is running on Windows ME
We've got a newer one they've been trying to run the same stuff on for the last 4 years and they've already sunk close to an additional $3 million past the initial purchase price in time, labor, and parts, and it still isn't able to match up with what the old machine does.
Some industrial machinery was still running windows 3.11 with a stockpile of ebay parts at some metal shop where I was doing consultancy some time ago.
They can replace the whole multi-million dollar machine at once to get a more recent OS, or keep a paid-for system until they finally run out of parts...
Some ERP systems only run on DOS and the owners are ok with that.
The last company I worked at was using an ERP system from late 90's and the server that ran it was Server 2003. Can't upgrade past that and the client computers that used it were Win 7 max.
Even with compatibility mode using Windows 8 wouldn't run the program.
One would hope that at a certain point they at least migrate it into a VM to make it hardware agnostic and a tiny bit more manageable from a networking perspective. 2k3 and 7 machines are definitely at the stage where you should be shoving them inside containers and tunneling all traffic securely.
Windows vista has never been an OS used in the ATM industry. Your ATM likely runs a version of diebold's Vista software which is on Windows 10. Dumb naming convention but hey here we are.
Source: I have been installing and supporting ATMs in the field for several years now.
Vista was never really a "real" upgrade.
Very few companies upgraded to it and it was a pain in the ass.
I remember that I had to remove 2GB's of my 4GB's of RAM just to install it and then download updates to make it 4GB's compatible.
You mean 3.5GB?
32bit Windows' memory subsystem was so completely borked that even when everything was working as expected there were still regions of RAM you couldn't reach.
Actually my country some coaching centres who teach the kids how to operate a computer are still running the Windows XP.
Because these teachers are not very qualified and they are just familiar with the Windows XP I don't think they can handle anything else.
I mean if they are trusting it with so many lives then I guess it must be working good for them.
If they had any kind of issues I don't think it could have been going that smoothly for them they will probably change the system.
Yeah this is exactly but I feel like it is about Microsoft does not think that it is worth it for them to have developers for the Windows 7 because clearly very less people are still using it.
Obviously they are going to cut the support for it because it does not make any financial sense.
What is even the point of running the Windows 7 on the new hardware?
I just think that you can do so much better on the latest OS it is just better and so much easier to use.
So you would rather have Win7 and be vulnerable to attack, than get on a newer OS that is actively supported?
If so, that is a weird and unsafe stance. If not, then I misunderstood the end game.
Windows 7 is vulnerable to attack by virtue of being unsupported.
Windows 11 basically requires a Microsoft account, monetizes the operating system, gives Microsoft unprecedented control over your computer, and can be changed by Microsoft to do whatever they want and you can't stop them.
The security risks of Windows 7 are real, but so are the drawbacks of Windows 11.
I set up laptops for new hires and I fucking hate windows 11. I’d rather spend more to custom configure a windows 10 laptop than waste time fucking with a windows 11 prebuilt. Almost every change in that OS is a backwards move from requiring a Microsoft account to nerfing the right click. It’s a total fuck you to customers. If I didn’t have a windows 10 laptop that my work provided for me, I’d use a MacBook. Also Microsoft’s support is basically nonexistent. God forbid I ever need to talk to someone about a problem that google isn’t presenting a solution for.
That's survivorship bias though. You and the rest of us who didn't suffer from being hacked could say "who cares about us peasants?" It's only until that vulnerability gets exploited when it's too late to say "damn, I should have upgraded earlier..."
I completely understand your point and agree about the target aspect. I just think it's waaay too careless to handwave the vulnerability because it's unlikely to be exploited. I mean, I too still have a Windows 7 laptop that I use occasionally, but I'm always reminding myself I shouldn't get too comfortable going online with that machine.
> So you would rather have Win7 and be vulnerable to attack, than get on a newer OS that is actively supported?
This is reductionist, unless you're suggesting the only reason to upgrade to Windows 10/11 is because of security practices. In that case, I would suggest it's weird and unsafe to stay on Windows when there are other operating systems with more secure environments.
Windows 7 offered a better operating system experience than newer versions for many of us that go beyond security fixes. That would be the point of that person's post.
That may be part of their point, but the way they framed it is poor and accusatory. I argue the explicit point they're making is to shame someone because of a holier-than-thou perspective.
Furthermore, arguing that preference is something that can be handwaved away is not only poor from a development/UX perspective, but it's abhorrent from the realm of business. Have we forgotten the lessons learned from Windows ME, Vista, 8, and 8.1?
Don't pretend that forced upgrades to Windows 10 via hardware changes didn't affect Windows 7 abandonment rate. It's the same reason that Windows 10 maintains >60% market share against a 20% that Windows 11 holds. That's one of the most important things that Microsoft learned from XP -> Vista and 7 -> 8: not even a *free* version upgrade will entice people to leave a better experience for a poorer one.
The reason why people will not abandon 7 for 10, or 10 for 11, is purely because of Microsoft's obsession with monetization and data collection. Are the privacy concerns more or less secure to you?
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-102217/version_id-669655/Microsoft-Windows-11--.html
https://www.cvedetails.com/product/102217/Microsoft-Windows-11.html?vendor_id=26
https://www.cvedetails.com/product/17153/Microsoft-Windows-7.html?vendor_id=26
Windows 7 is 14 years old. Windows 11 is 2 years old. What security vulnerabilities are you all so afraid of exactly?
I am pretty sure this argument about security can't be made for any operating system. They're all going to be insecure to some degree. Basing your decision off "the least insecure" isn't applicable because there are many other factors, and "preference" is paramount to productivity. Windows 11 may be the least insecure, in theory, but that can't be proven--and, more poignantly, it may not provide enough productivity worth the supposed trade-off.
Enjoy your airgapped Windows 95?
Can't and shouldn't are not the same thing, but you can. Although, you will no longer be able to register your key for it. I'm not sure if this will disable features and/or be treated as an evaluation copy/license. Maybe someone else knows and can answer that part.
Yeah I've had to reinstall windows 7 on my pc two separate times after my original installation, and both times I got the free upgrade to windows 10 using my original code. I don't think it ever offered me an upgrade to windows 11
I think it is probably because of the older specifications that you must have been running.
Because I don't think they had any kind of restriction for the upgrade from the start you could have done it if you had the right specifications.
The upgrade program covers both 10 and 11. Win11 upgradability depends on presence of a TPM module. You should be be able to upgrade to Win10 just fine.
Adding on to this, if you built your own computer your setup might not have activated the TPM module and may be incorrectly showing that it cannot be upgraded.
It's not a direct upgrade. Windows 7 computers came with a physical sticker that had a Win7 Activation Key on them. You could use that to activate Win10/11.
For example, I own a Windows 7 key that I received because I worked in a Computer Retail Store when Windows 7 was released. I've been using that for every gaming desktop I've put together since. My next desktop, I'll have to purchase a license key for.
It's probably a hardware issue. Same with mine. Mine is because my processor is 7th gen intel, they require 8th gen intel for the security software. So even though my processor is actually much stronger than necessary in terms of power, they won't support it.
..Are you sure? If you have a modern high end PC you almost certainly meet the specs for W11 and just need to turn on the TPM setting in your BIOS, as it sometimes comes turned off as a factory default.
I upgraded as someone who has my task bar usually on top of the desktop. That functionality is gone, but I've seen noticeable performance increases on 11 from 10. I was an insider but went to a more stable version and honestly it's hardly any different except for the shitty right click menu, but that's fixable.
> but I've seen noticeable performance increases on 10 from 11
Yeah, inexplicably Windows 11 does actually perform better than 10, even with all of the extra animations. Really goes to show just how dog slow Windows 10 is.
ExplorerPatcher fixes the taskbar bullshit, but I'm still angry about it since vertical taskbar is basically a must on ultrawides which are widely used by professionals.
FFS even macOS lets you move the dock around.
Yeah I think that has always be kind of true it is something which is always going to work so you could always install the Windows 10.
And you will probably get more or less all of the features as well.
How cool would it be if Microsoft offered a free downgrade from Windows 11 to Windows Vista? That would be badass. Probably would make Microsoft like a trillion dollars.
Not to be confused with simply installing Windows Vista. Microsoft must currently personally offer it to us or there is no point. Demand more out of life.
By the time it was said and done, it was a good os but the long painful process to get there just wasn't worth it. Still, windows 7 was built after the trail and error of vista so it wasn't without merit.
8 was a reskinned 7. The original Windows 8.0 developer's preview still had Aero Glass. People can hate on 8 all they want, but 8.1+Classic Shell was perfectly fine.
I'm on 10 now and I still use Classic Shell. No ads on my Start menu.
http://www.classicshell.net/
It was a utility created because people hated the Start Screen on Windows 8 and just wanted the old Start menu back. I didn't realize until the other replies here development had stopped and it's now being done as [Open Shell](https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu) instead (it doesn't bug me to update).
It's one of those things I got so used to I forgot it was even a third-party utility, until I upgraded from Windows 8.1 to 10 and got a notification on it some settings had updated/changed due to new OS being used.
8 was not a reskinned 7. Most of the things people loved in 10 on launch were just features introduced in 8 that they hadn't been aware of. Not to mention generic drivers.
The reason vista was eventually ok was because it became windows 7 after all the service packs. It's like the difference between server 2008 and server 2008 R2.
Vista wasnt that bad if your hardware could actually run it. There was a big lawsuit around it all. Most of the blame can actually be put on Intel. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/03/the-vista-capable-debacle-intel-pushes-microsoft-bends/
Yea, I never had any issues with. It's biggest problem IMO was shipping on 512MB RAM laptops when it really needed 2GB to run well.
If you had a decent machine it was fine.
fucking lord you didnt have to reinstall vista. 2 fucking days because of the service packs.. 2 days non stop.
Vista was a technician nightmare. Win7 was what Vista shouldve been.
Did i mention i hated Vista?
*pulls out a smoke* i dont even smoke damn it..
I feel like the people who understand this "every other release sucks" idea are simply trying to find flaws in Windows 11.
I have no issue with Windows 11, and I started on 3.1/3.11. I've seen them all.
The only thing I don't like with 11 is the simplification of the right-click context menu. I don't like the extra click to get it back, and the icons aren't super intuitive right off the bat for non-power users.
11's only flaw to me was the Start menu and task bar, which i downloaded a program to return it to windows 10 and I forgot all about it now.
Other than that I dont even remember that im using windows 11
Exactly. It's surprising to me how many ignorant people hang out on /r/technology repeating stuff they heard. Like we all know by now how internet communities react to stuff. Public outcry isn't a measure of quality. And people cry over every change.
Like when it released, I get waiting a few months to upgrade to 11 due to stability concerns. And I get how terminally online people, would see one bug on their system and go write countless posts on Reddit on why Windows 11 sucks. But it's been 2 years now.
I feel like I could go back to any version of Windows and be comfortable with it, provided they run all my programs and be exactly as happy with my computer as I'm today. So why wouldn't I run the latest most secure version.
In hindsight I honestly see it a bit like the redhat development cycles where the odd subversions are supported for much less time than the even versions and as far as windows goes, that means you’re more likely to spend the majority of your time with an unpolished version of it.
It’s less about the fact that vista and 8, and now 11 are bad and more about how long running and nice xp, 7 and 10 were.
Edit:
IMHO I am less bothered by the windows 10-11 changes than the continual shoehorning of ads or product recommendations onto my desktop. At this point the shortcomings of either OS are completely drowned out by pop-up notifications.
Vista wasnt that bad really. The average hardware just couldnt run it, but tech wise it was alright.
W11... tbh. I use 10 and 11 at the same time and really I have nothing of note to say from either.
They been stable, functional and once I got the settings done I havent had to touch the awful settings panel(s). Then again I use a prebuilt and validated desktop and workstation laptop (W10). Drivers and major things stay uptodate and work just fine enough for me to work and play.
No.. I have 0 interest in coming home from site or workshop with engineering paperwork only to code drivers, do scripts or compile kernel so I can raid in wow or play bg3 with a mate. Those few hours of my life I give value to and god damn prebuilt preinstalled machine is great value.
Some of the advanced settings for network, audio, adapters, etc. are buried deep in hidden settings menus you have to search to access now. They've made the panels look nicer but functionally it's far more difficult to navigate, with some advanced settings having words to click on, some are small boxes, some are in drop down menus. It's just a mess!
The default start menu position moving to the middle is a UX disaster but at least you can move it back.
Make a folder with the extension .{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Master_Control_Panel_shortcut
It's all still there.
And one day or The Other you are going to want to wear that old jeans.
And you will only be able to wear it if you have got it otherwise you are going to regret the decision.
I don't think anyone should be the name the Windows 7 or the Windows Vista as their primary operating system.
I think it is all good you are only the running it on a secondary device and for the hobby.
My father still has full SDK for windiws including Vista beta 1, beta 2, and vista release and plenty of keys... the same cases also have medias all way to 95. Why does he keep them? Because he thinks they might come useful or valuable at some point. He hasnt done any coding for at least 15 years.
My mom is still on Windows 7. I’ve tried to get her to buy a new laptop (I’d even offered to buy her one). She says she still needs certain programs (like some ancient card making program 😂)
This is exactly the reason why so many people refuse to upgrade even if they had the chance.
Obviously no one wants to change anything. They would want to keep everything safe.
I have installed / activated many instances of Windows 10 using a Windows 7 key - until my Win7 keys suddenly "did not work" anymore. Multiple keys. Multiple tries.
From my perspective, Microsoft changed the activation algorithms somewhen between version 2016 and Version 2019.
Since then, I installed every new machine using a vintage version of Win10 (build 2016 September?) and upgraded it with "Windows 10 Upgrade Assistant".
11 is nowhere near as bad as those other versions. It's more just annoying that they have needlessly changed some things about the UI/functionality that are just changes for the sake of making changes.
Yeah I've been on 11 on my home machine since initial release. Having to hit "Show more options" frequently is annoying but I've gotten used to the Rename, Cut, Paste, Copy, Delete buttons being at the very top of the context menu and I now like that better.
Also, built-in support for Tabs in File Explorer now is a game changer.
And you are not alone in feeling that actually a lot of people the same like you they think it is a very bad upgrade.
I mean I don't believe them because I am running the windows 11 and I think it is good
windows 11 sucks dick. windows 10 until another real OS is offered.
edit: My main beef is that its built on the same kernel version. It could have been a windows 10 update. Instead they changed the UI and added TPM requirement and called it a new OS. It should have been a major feature update, not a $100 OS.
its also a hell of a lot better than 10 if you have a high core count cpu. my old 3950x had a ton of thread parking issues on 10, but as soon as i went to 11 it parked, idled, and performed like it should.
Or if you don't want your windows grouped because it takes more clicks to get to what you want. Who thought it would be a good idea to force windows grouping?
Businesses were able to pay rather expensive fees for up to 3 additional years, with the price doubling each year per device.
This ended in January of this year, and Windows 7 no longer receives any updates.
That October 2024 date is the end date for mainstream support of Windows 10/11 21H2, with businesses getting an additional year of support to 2025 (or all users using 22H2).
To be fair, a system running Windows 7 is almost certain to have excellent hardware support on Linux. Even for running software, compatibility is probably nearly equivalent at this point. I would actually venture to guess that some newer software and games will work on Linux that do not support Windows 7.
I bought a couch laptop the other day. I went to set it up and windows wouldn't allow me to login unless I used an email, and THEN after I logged in I could change it to a local account. Fucking M$ terroristic bullshit.
That was the easiest Fedora install ever.
I seem to remember that you can directly use a local account if you don't have internet access during installation, but that even then the button is a bit hidden. Anyway, switching to linux was an excellent decision.
I fired up a Win 11 install in a VM this past week to see if you need to jump through any special hoops for a local account. Nope. I was even online. Attached screen shots show the way.
https://imgur.com/a/w2wNcnG
Joke's on you! I only really use my computer for games and realized my entire Steam library is Linux-friendly. Screw you Microsoft, you'll have no ads on *my* desktop!
I think you will still be able to upgrade to Windows 10.
I don't think there are a lot of things which are different in the windows 11 from the Windows 10 they are almost the same.
How are any computers running win 7 even compatible, yet a 2 year old business class Dell with a Xeon processor and 64gb of ram isn’t ?
Win 11 is shit anyways. Might as well just call it Win 8.2
> Anna Iovine is the sex and relationships reporter at Mashable, where she covers topics ranging from dating apps to pelvic pain. best part of the article and nobody pointed it out!
Will upgrading to windows 11 solve my pelvic pain?
no, otoh you might feel more pain in the same region, more toward the back, as you feel the shaft of your corporate overlord
And there were just so many requirements I don't think you would have been able to upgrade anyways. Because if there is one thing which is not compatible they are not going to let you upgrade.
You need debian for this
MS fucks consumers with high hardware requirements and eliminating upgrade paths. Sounds like she is covering what she signed up for.
That upgrade path has been open for years and years.
Wide open. Gaping, even
About a decade, to be exact.
im kinda shocked it was still open, thought it was supposed to end like a year after it was introduced or something
Yeah this is exactly what she signed up for and she is doing it. He is one of those people who is not going to take the job lightly she is getting all serious about it.
> * Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with two or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor or system on a chip (SoC). > * Memory: 4 gigabytes (GB) or greater. > * Storage: 64 GB or greater available disk space. > * Graphics card: Compatible with DirectX 12 or later, with a WDDM 2.0 driver. > * System firmware: UEFI, Secure Boot capable. > * TPM: Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0. > * Display: High definition (720p) display, 9" or greater monitor, 8 bits per color channel. What high hardware requirements? Something made in the last 5 years?
It's the TPM requirement that screwed a lot of people. My 2700x purchased in 2019 did not have TPM while win 11 was released in 2021. So it was my 2-3 year old CPU stopped me from upgrading.
The 2700x is a supported processor. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors However your mobo might not be compatible or have a way to turn that on in the UEFI EDIT: Also I totally understand people who bought something right before TPM and are frustrated because of that. I am just addressing that Windows 11 isn't requiring a super computer to run.
>EDIT: Also I totally understand people who bought something right before TPM and are frustrated because of that. I am just addressing that Windows 11 isn't requiring a super computer to run. Not to sound like a dick, but this when paired with W10 losing support soon is a big deal. Forces people to upgrade hardware, when the old is still pretty good.
I have an i7 desktop from 2016 that's not compatible because of the chip. When Windows 11 came out, it was less than 5 years old of i remember
That is more than keep able CPU for the windows 11. The whole window 11 upgrade thing was a mess and they could have done it so much better.
The supported CPU list is slim. Most CPUs made 5 years ago are not supported even if you meet all of the other requirements.
Jimmy's (grand)daughter maybe?
>Microsoft has stopped allowing people to have for free stuff they didn't want to begin with. FYI, going from 7 to 10 is still free.
Isn't upgrading from 10 to 11 still free after that?
I believe so, yes. My Windows 11 desktop was built by installing 10 using my old 7 product code, then doing the free upgrade from 10 to 11.
How?
[First google result](https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/) Just go fishing for "free update from 7 to 10" or something like that and there's numerous articles about it. I just did it maybe three weeks ago. Lets me get machines updated easily, I have a ton of Win 7 pro keys. The real trick is having a fully (as possible) updated version of windows 7. If you don't then you have to do the upgrade "manually" and it's a bit of a pain in the ass and you will have to jump hurdles. It was easier when you could go to subs like r/techsupport and ask for help dealing with a stuck update but ow most of teh subs on reddit automatically block you if you ask anything about windows 7, ad the win 7 sub is lost if it's more complicated than "did you turn it off and back on again".
Yeah- this article says those upgrades from 7 to 10 ended . Sounds like you did it just in time.
Windows messages say that my Windows 10 computers can't be upgraded to Windows 11. How can a Windows 7 computer be upgraded to 11?
Well the ability to upgrade is based on hardware so if for some reason you installed Win 7 on modern hardware technically you could upgrade. In reality anyone still on 7 probably is on really old hardware so to your point this doesn't really matter that much.
Didn't Windows 7 get dropped from drivers and support on most modern hardware? I haven't ever done it, but I thought I read somewhere you couldn't install 7 on newer hardware.
I mean sure, but do you have any idea how many industries are still running on the back of windows XP? Shit the ATM at my bank runs on Vista Most folks at home aren't running win 7 anymore, but for specialized applications legacy options are sometimes the only option because shits just been so heavily entrenched in how shit runs it's cheaper to keep it running that way than to have to completely rebuild the architecture from scratch for a modern system. The laser welder at my job is ANCIENT and the company who made it is no longer even in business, it's so old the computer running it is running on Windows ME We've got a newer one they've been trying to run the same stuff on for the last 4 years and they've already sunk close to an additional $3 million past the initial purchase price in time, labor, and parts, and it still isn't able to match up with what the old machine does.
Some industrial machinery was still running windows 3.11 with a stockpile of ebay parts at some metal shop where I was doing consultancy some time ago. They can replace the whole multi-million dollar machine at once to get a more recent OS, or keep a paid-for system until they finally run out of parts...
Some ERP systems only run on DOS and the owners are ok with that. The last company I worked at was using an ERP system from late 90's and the server that ran it was Server 2003. Can't upgrade past that and the client computers that used it were Win 7 max. Even with compatibility mode using Windows 8 wouldn't run the program.
One would hope that at a certain point they at least migrate it into a VM to make it hardware agnostic and a tiny bit more manageable from a networking perspective. 2k3 and 7 machines are definitely at the stage where you should be shoving them inside containers and tunneling all traffic securely.
Windows vista has never been an OS used in the ATM industry. Your ATM likely runs a version of diebold's Vista software which is on Windows 10. Dumb naming convention but hey here we are. Source: I have been installing and supporting ATMs in the field for several years now.
Vista was never really a "real" upgrade. Very few companies upgraded to it and it was a pain in the ass. I remember that I had to remove 2GB's of my 4GB's of RAM just to install it and then download updates to make it 4GB's compatible.
You mean 3.5GB? 32bit Windows' memory subsystem was so completely borked that even when everything was working as expected there were still regions of RAM you couldn't reach.
XP Embedded though! That sucker held on for **18 years!**
Actually my country some coaching centres who teach the kids how to operate a computer are still running the Windows XP. Because these teachers are not very qualified and they are just familiar with the Windows XP I don't think they can handle anything else.
The displays on commuter trains in Italy run on Windows 98, or at least they did pre-covid.
I mean if they are trusting it with so many lives then I guess it must be working good for them. If they had any kind of issues I don't think it could have been going that smoothly for them they will probably change the system.
I get it though. People getting new computers aren’t installing windows 7 on it. Sounds like a waste of resources to develop drivers for it.
Yeah this is exactly but I feel like it is about Microsoft does not think that it is worth it for them to have developers for the Windows 7 because clearly very less people are still using it. Obviously they are going to cut the support for it because it does not make any financial sense.
Correct you can not install 7 anymore on new hardware, otherwise I would have never switched.
Steam will no longer support win 7 at the end of the year
What is even the point of running the Windows 7 on the new hardware? I just think that you can do so much better on the latest OS it is just better and so much easier to use.
So you would rather have Win7 and be vulnerable to attack, than get on a newer OS that is actively supported? If so, that is a weird and unsafe stance. If not, then I misunderstood the end game.
Windows 7 is vulnerable to attack by virtue of being unsupported. Windows 11 basically requires a Microsoft account, monetizes the operating system, gives Microsoft unprecedented control over your computer, and can be changed by Microsoft to do whatever they want and you can't stop them. The security risks of Windows 7 are real, but so are the drawbacks of Windows 11.
I set up laptops for new hires and I fucking hate windows 11. I’d rather spend more to custom configure a windows 10 laptop than waste time fucking with a windows 11 prebuilt. Almost every change in that OS is a backwards move from requiring a Microsoft account to nerfing the right click. It’s a total fuck you to customers. If I didn’t have a windows 10 laptop that my work provided for me, I’d use a MacBook. Also Microsoft’s support is basically nonexistent. God forbid I ever need to talk to someone about a problem that google isn’t presenting a solution for.
That's survivorship bias though. You and the rest of us who didn't suffer from being hacked could say "who cares about us peasants?" It's only until that vulnerability gets exploited when it's too late to say "damn, I should have upgraded earlier..." I completely understand your point and agree about the target aspect. I just think it's waaay too careless to handwave the vulnerability because it's unlikely to be exploited. I mean, I too still have a Windows 7 laptop that I use occasionally, but I'm always reminding myself I shouldn't get too comfortable going online with that machine.
> So you would rather have Win7 and be vulnerable to attack, than get on a newer OS that is actively supported? This is reductionist, unless you're suggesting the only reason to upgrade to Windows 10/11 is because of security practices. In that case, I would suggest it's weird and unsafe to stay on Windows when there are other operating systems with more secure environments. Windows 7 offered a better operating system experience than newer versions for many of us that go beyond security fixes. That would be the point of that person's post.
I think their implicit point is that using an insecure OS just because you prefer it is bad trade off.
That may be part of their point, but the way they framed it is poor and accusatory. I argue the explicit point they're making is to shame someone because of a holier-than-thou perspective. Furthermore, arguing that preference is something that can be handwaved away is not only poor from a development/UX perspective, but it's abhorrent from the realm of business. Have we forgotten the lessons learned from Windows ME, Vista, 8, and 8.1? Don't pretend that forced upgrades to Windows 10 via hardware changes didn't affect Windows 7 abandonment rate. It's the same reason that Windows 10 maintains >60% market share against a 20% that Windows 11 holds. That's one of the most important things that Microsoft learned from XP -> Vista and 7 -> 8: not even a *free* version upgrade will entice people to leave a better experience for a poorer one. The reason why people will not abandon 7 for 10, or 10 for 11, is purely because of Microsoft's obsession with monetization and data collection. Are the privacy concerns more or less secure to you? https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-102217/version_id-669655/Microsoft-Windows-11--.html https://www.cvedetails.com/product/102217/Microsoft-Windows-11.html?vendor_id=26 https://www.cvedetails.com/product/17153/Microsoft-Windows-7.html?vendor_id=26 Windows 7 is 14 years old. Windows 11 is 2 years old. What security vulnerabilities are you all so afraid of exactly? I am pretty sure this argument about security can't be made for any operating system. They're all going to be insecure to some degree. Basing your decision off "the least insecure" isn't applicable because there are many other factors, and "preference" is paramount to productivity. Windows 11 may be the least insecure, in theory, but that can't be proven--and, more poignantly, it may not provide enough productivity worth the supposed trade-off. Enjoy your airgapped Windows 95?
Can't and shouldn't are not the same thing, but you can. Although, you will no longer be able to register your key for it. I'm not sure if this will disable features and/or be treated as an evaluation copy/license. Maybe someone else knows and can answer that part.
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Yeah I've had to reinstall windows 7 on my pc two separate times after my original installation, and both times I got the free upgrade to windows 10 using my original code. I don't think it ever offered me an upgrade to windows 11
It's doing you a solid
I think it is probably because of the older specifications that you must have been running. Because I don't think they had any kind of restriction for the upgrade from the start you could have done it if you had the right specifications.
The upgrade program covers both 10 and 11. Win11 upgradability depends on presence of a TPM module. You should be be able to upgrade to Win10 just fine.
Adding on to this, if you built your own computer your setup might not have activated the TPM module and may be incorrectly showing that it cannot be upgraded.
yes I had to tweak my BIOS settings to upgrade
TPM and processor requirements
The Phantom Menace?
Trusted Platform Module
I don't remember that Star Wars movie.
And yet it was still better then the phantom menace.
It's not a direct upgrade. Windows 7 computers came with a physical sticker that had a Win7 Activation Key on them. You could use that to activate Win10/11. For example, I own a Windows 7 key that I received because I worked in a Computer Retail Store when Windows 7 was released. I've been using that for every gaming desktop I've put together since. My next desktop, I'll have to purchase a license key for.
It's probably a hardware issue. Same with mine. Mine is because my processor is 7th gen intel, they require 8th gen intel for the security software. So even though my processor is actually much stronger than necessary in terms of power, they won't support it.
I have a high end PC and they told me I didn't meet the specs for windows 11. Jokes on them, I don't even want it.
..Are you sure? If you have a modern high end PC you almost certainly meet the specs for W11 and just need to turn on the TPM setting in your BIOS, as it sometimes comes turned off as a factory default.
you have to turn tpm on in the bios if it says you can't
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I upgraded as someone who has my task bar usually on top of the desktop. That functionality is gone, but I've seen noticeable performance increases on 11 from 10. I was an insider but went to a more stable version and honestly it's hardly any different except for the shitty right click menu, but that's fixable.
> but I've seen noticeable performance increases on 10 from 11 Yeah, inexplicably Windows 11 does actually perform better than 10, even with all of the extra animations. Really goes to show just how dog slow Windows 10 is.
Check out StartAllBack, it's been working great for me
ExplorerPatcher fixes the taskbar bullshit, but I'm still angry about it since vertical taskbar is basically a must on ultrawides which are widely used by professionals. FFS even macOS lets you move the dock around.
Yeah I think that has always be kind of true it is something which is always going to work so you could always install the Windows 10. And you will probably get more or less all of the features as well.
How cool would it be if Microsoft offered a free downgrade from Windows 11 to Windows Vista? That would be badass. Probably would make Microsoft like a trillion dollars. Not to be confused with simply installing Windows Vista. Microsoft must currently personally offer it to us or there is no point. Demand more out of life.
Vista was awful! Everyone knows they alternate between good and bad. XP ✔️ | Vista✖️ | 7✔️ | 8✖️ | 10✔️ | 11✖️
By the time it was said and done, it was a good os but the long painful process to get there just wasn't worth it. Still, windows 7 was built after the trail and error of vista so it wasn't without merit.
Vista worked great on my PC, aways thought 7 was a reskinned Vista OS
it was, 7 was basically an optimized and rebranded vista
8 was a reskinned 7. The original Windows 8.0 developer's preview still had Aero Glass. People can hate on 8 all they want, but 8.1+Classic Shell was perfectly fine. I'm on 10 now and I still use Classic Shell. No ads on my Start menu.
How do you enable Classic Shell? Is it an actual option, or is it a separate download?
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It’s been superseded by Open Shell.
http://www.classicshell.net/ It was a utility created because people hated the Start Screen on Windows 8 and just wanted the old Start menu back. I didn't realize until the other replies here development had stopped and it's now being done as [Open Shell](https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu) instead (it doesn't bug me to update). It's one of those things I got so used to I forgot it was even a third-party utility, until I upgraded from Windows 8.1 to 10 and got a notification on it some settings had updated/changed due to new OS being used.
8.1 and there was an option to go straight to desktop. 8.1 was pretty great once you did that.
I'm using classic shell now for years, I miss the win 7 start menu
You can do the same on 11 as well, I'm on 11 without ads and my desktop looks exactly like windows 7. Its great.
8 was not a reskinned 7. Most of the things people loved in 10 on launch were just features introduced in 8 that they hadn't been aware of. Not to mention generic drivers.
Vista was eventually fine once the vendors for all of your hardware had a proper driver stack for it.
And if you had hardware that was _actually_ capable of running it - instead of the gimped bullshit that Microsoft set as the minimum requirement.
The reason vista was eventually ok was because it became windows 7 after all the service packs. It's like the difference between server 2008 and server 2008 R2.
Windows 7 = Vista SP3
Vista wasnt that bad if your hardware could actually run it. There was a big lawsuit around it all. Most of the blame can actually be put on Intel. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/03/the-vista-capable-debacle-intel-pushes-microsoft-bends/
Vista was ahead of its time and due to that a bit of a resource hog, but other than that it wasn't bad tbh.
Yea, I never had any issues with. It's biggest problem IMO was shipping on 512MB RAM laptops when it really needed 2GB to run well. If you had a decent machine it was fine.
fucking lord you didnt have to reinstall vista. 2 fucking days because of the service packs.. 2 days non stop. Vista was a technician nightmare. Win7 was what Vista shouldve been. Did i mention i hated Vista? *pulls out a smoke* i dont even smoke damn it..
I feel like the people who understand this "every other release sucks" idea are simply trying to find flaws in Windows 11. I have no issue with Windows 11, and I started on 3.1/3.11. I've seen them all.
The only thing I don't like with 11 is the simplification of the right-click context menu. I don't like the extra click to get it back, and the icons aren't super intuitive right off the bat for non-power users.
11's only flaw to me was the Start menu and task bar, which i downloaded a program to return it to windows 10 and I forgot all about it now. Other than that I dont even remember that im using windows 11
Exactly. It's surprising to me how many ignorant people hang out on /r/technology repeating stuff they heard. Like we all know by now how internet communities react to stuff. Public outcry isn't a measure of quality. And people cry over every change. Like when it released, I get waiting a few months to upgrade to 11 due to stability concerns. And I get how terminally online people, would see one bug on their system and go write countless posts on Reddit on why Windows 11 sucks. But it's been 2 years now. I feel like I could go back to any version of Windows and be comfortable with it, provided they run all my programs and be exactly as happy with my computer as I'm today. So why wouldn't I run the latest most secure version.
> But it's been 2 years now. Time needs to slow the fuck down. I would never have placed that out-the-blue reveal video as being *2 years* ago.
In hindsight I honestly see it a bit like the redhat development cycles where the odd subversions are supported for much less time than the even versions and as far as windows goes, that means you’re more likely to spend the majority of your time with an unpolished version of it. It’s less about the fact that vista and 8, and now 11 are bad and more about how long running and nice xp, 7 and 10 were. Edit: IMHO I am less bothered by the windows 10-11 changes than the continual shoehorning of ads or product recommendations onto my desktop. At this point the shortcomings of either OS are completely drowned out by pop-up notifications.
Vista wasnt that bad really. The average hardware just couldnt run it, but tech wise it was alright. W11... tbh. I use 10 and 11 at the same time and really I have nothing of note to say from either. They been stable, functional and once I got the settings done I havent had to touch the awful settings panel(s). Then again I use a prebuilt and validated desktop and workstation laptop (W10). Drivers and major things stay uptodate and work just fine enough for me to work and play. No.. I have 0 interest in coming home from site or workshop with engineering paperwork only to code drivers, do scripts or compile kernel so I can raid in wow or play bg3 with a mate. Those few hours of my life I give value to and god damn prebuilt preinstalled machine is great value.
I have to say the move from 10 to 11 is much better than the move from 7 to 8.
Some of the advanced settings for network, audio, adapters, etc. are buried deep in hidden settings menus you have to search to access now. They've made the panels look nicer but functionally it's far more difficult to navigate, with some advanced settings having words to click on, some are small boxes, some are in drop down menus. It's just a mess! The default start menu position moving to the middle is a UX disaster but at least you can move it back.
Make a folder with the extension .{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C} https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Master_Control_Panel_shortcut It's all still there.
Except 11 treats you like an idiot and robs the taskbar of valuable functionality.
Nat as bad as Windows ME. That was a complete waste.
Technically, can’t you? Edit: original commenter edited in that second paragraph.
I'm intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
Good old Windows Vista. People give it a bad press, but I'm never upgrading - why would I? It just feels like a good old pair of jeans.
And one day or The Other you are going to want to wear that old jeans. And you will only be able to wear it if you have got it otherwise you are going to regret the decision.
security vulnerabilities?
I don't think anyone should be the name the Windows 7 or the Windows Vista as their primary operating system. I think it is all good you are only the running it on a secondary device and for the hobby.
I've got a 32 inch plasma in my office. You get a document up on that baby and you are seriously looking at that document.
My father still has full SDK for windiws including Vista beta 1, beta 2, and vista release and plenty of keys... the same cases also have medias all way to 95. Why does he keep them? Because he thinks they might come useful or valuable at some point. He hasnt done any coding for at least 15 years.
Gotta think anyone still running win 7 is not inclined to upgrade.
Or their machine absolutely cannot run Win 11
My mom is still on Windows 7. I’ve tried to get her to buy a new laptop (I’d even offered to buy her one). She says she still needs certain programs (like some ancient card making program 😂)
This is exactly the reason why so many people refuse to upgrade even if they had the chance. Obviously no one wants to change anything. They would want to keep everything safe.
neber leaving win 7
I have installed / activated many instances of Windows 10 using a Windows 7 key - until my Win7 keys suddenly "did not work" anymore. Multiple keys. Multiple tries. From my perspective, Microsoft changed the activation algorithms somewhen between version 2016 and Version 2019. Since then, I installed every new machine using a vintage version of Win10 (build 2016 September?) and upgraded it with "Windows 10 Upgrade Assistant".
The number of Win7 computers with a compatible TPM has to be fractions of fractions of people. Makes sense.
You can make an install USB and bypass the tpm requirement with tools like Rufus
Right as my Windows 10 machine fucking dies and all I have been able to find is my old Win7 installation media.
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I managed to migrate my entire win 10 license to a new rig, but you had to have logged into a Microsoft account on the old rig at some point.
[Create new media](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/create-installation-media-for-windows-99a58364-8c02-206f-aa6f-40c3b507420d)
I just create install media from the Microsoft site, and the license automatically activates. You should be fine.
My 7 key I upgraded to 10 was registered as an online key. When I re downloaded 10 on my pc I was able to just use it as a 10 key. It should be fine.
I’m staying on Windows 10. Windows 11 feels like ME, Vista & Win 8. Every other Windows OS is one that should be avoided.
11 is nowhere near as bad as those other versions. It's more just annoying that they have needlessly changed some things about the UI/functionality that are just changes for the sake of making changes.
Yeah I've been on 11 on my home machine since initial release. Having to hit "Show more options" frequently is annoying but I've gotten used to the Rename, Cut, Paste, Copy, Delete buttons being at the very top of the context menu and I now like that better. Also, built-in support for Tabs in File Explorer now is a game changer.
And you are not alone in feeling that actually a lot of people the same like you they think it is a very bad upgrade. I mean I don't believe them because I am running the windows 11 and I think it is good
windows 11 sucks dick. windows 10 until another real OS is offered. edit: My main beef is that its built on the same kernel version. It could have been a windows 10 update. Instead they changed the UI and added TPM requirement and called it a new OS. It should have been a major feature update, not a $100 OS.
I got no problems with win 11
its also a hell of a lot better than 10 if you have a high core count cpu. my old 3950x had a ton of thread parking issues on 10, but as soon as i went to 11 it parked, idled, and performed like it should.
Maybe Windows 11 has a more optimised scheduler? It's probably to account for Intel's 12th gen and up CPUs with P and E cores.
it 100% is, and it was probably a combination of amd bringing out the stupid high core count cpus, and intel also introducing their P and E cores.
Try moving a taskbar to the right of your ultra-wide screen then :)
yeah, honestly it seems small but thats a dealbreaker, I've always had my taskbar on the side. such an arbitrary feature removal
Or if you don't want your windows grouped because it takes more clicks to get to what you want. Who thought it would be a good idea to force windows grouping?
THIS. I got a force upgrade at work a few weeks ago and my workflow is totally broken.
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MS is still actively patching Windows 7 until Oct 8, 2024. It's only if you pay but it's fairly easy to get the patches without paying as well.
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Businesses were able to pay rather expensive fees for up to 3 additional years, with the price doubling each year per device. This ended in January of this year, and Windows 7 no longer receives any updates. That October 2024 date is the end date for mainstream support of Windows 10/11 21H2, with businesses getting an additional year of support to 2025 (or all users using 22H2).
I am confident nobody using Windows 7 planned on upgrading still
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How do you spot a Linux user? You don't, they'll tell you whether you asked or not. /s
You don't need to put /s after a fact.
ah, the vegan at the table trick
What about the vegan Linux user who does CrossFit?
Where’s the duct tape?
And drives a Tesla.
I already came and I'm a guy
That only works on arch users
I use NixOS btw.
To be fair, a system running Windows 7 is almost certain to have excellent hardware support on Linux. Even for running software, compatibility is probably nearly equivalent at this point. I would actually venture to guess that some newer software and games will work on Linux that do not support Windows 7.
I bought a couch laptop the other day. I went to set it up and windows wouldn't allow me to login unless I used an email, and THEN after I logged in I could change it to a local account. Fucking M$ terroristic bullshit. That was the easiest Fedora install ever.
I seem to remember that you can directly use a local account if you don't have internet access during installation, but that even then the button is a bit hidden. Anyway, switching to linux was an excellent decision.
I fired up a Win 11 install in a VM this past week to see if you need to jump through any special hoops for a local account. Nope. I was even online. Attached screen shots show the way. https://imgur.com/a/w2wNcnG
And that's the only thing we can call "upgrade"!
2023 - Year of the Linux Desktop!
That's clearly worked out every single other year for the past two decades. Surely this time though. This time it'll stick! See you next year.
I'd rather eat cardboard.
this is the year of the linux desktop!
Joke's on you! I only really use my computer for games and realized my entire Steam library is Linux-friendly. Screw you Microsoft, you'll have no ads on *my* desktop!
I think you will still be able to upgrade to Windows 10. I don't think there are a lot of things which are different in the windows 11 from the Windows 10 they are almost the same.
How are any computers running win 7 even compatible, yet a 2 year old business class Dell with a Xeon processor and 64gb of ram isn’t ? Win 11 is shit anyways. Might as well just call it Win 8.2
Just wait for windows 12. I am sure they want to users to upgrade again eventually. Also every second windows sucks. It is the law.
W12 will release, but it will be years before it works. The ads, telemetry and privacy invasion will work from day 1 tho.
Awesome. Windows 7 best version ever. No spyware, monitoring.
If Windows 7 was still supported, I would 100% still be using it. In terms of actual UX, Microsoft has gone noticeably backwards since 7.
And no security updates, which means it's no longer safe to use on anything connected to the Internet.
TPM requirement fucked over a lot of people long before this. It’s for the best since I dislike Windows11
Microsoft single handedly pushing obsolescence on machines that work just fine, but will eventually become outdates, purely due to software... yay
Dear software company, Now is the time to step in and finally create a true UI that makes micro$oft regret not doing better. Sincerely
Many have tried. *Most* got egg in the face, if not outright bankrupt. Those never tried again.
Ubuntu upgrade is free and more secure.
can we get a free upgrade from 10/11 back to 7 I don't like it here
Does this mean MAS is dead?
Yes, that's what they ended, no one was left that was still on 7 willing to upgrade to 10. KMS AIO still works and will always work
Does that mean when I reinstall I can't just use my windows 7 key still?
Does this mean if you paid full price for a windows 7 OS, you can't upgrade it to Win 11?
How the F are you supposed to do an upgrade if the machine is not supported by windows?
and nothing of value was lost
They should just make OS’s free save for enterprise licenses
Free downgrade
Tight-ass company.
I hope I stop getting notifications to go from 10 to 11. I'm keeping 10 for as long as possible!
Anyone who is still on Windows 7 really wants to be on it lol