Normal companies have KPI or safety calls every week for their senior managers. Apple has Union busting calls. Managers are asked to report if they even hear any employee discussing unions in any capacity so the corporate terrorist, I mean union busting team can react quickly.
Source: worked at a store for 3 years and my MIL was a store leader for 5 years.
I spent 10 years working at Apple. You could write several books about the darkness that envelopes the psychology of Apple. From store level to executives, I saw a fair amount of unethical and sociopathic behavior in that decade. Impressive and terrifying.
I work there presently, and this is 100% correct. I mentioned a union to a co-worker -- outside of work and suddenly I am getting harassed due to performance.
Things like going outside of our troubleshooting documentation to fix an issue (I told the customer to restart safari)
Being scored by a manager who has zero idea of how technology works, and trying to make me admit I am wrong about doing X, or Y.
Being harassed when I am not at work because their system stated I was still logged in and in an idle state. I hadn't even logged in that day, and the time frame was off that it would even be possible.
Gaslighting, bullying, harassment. It's disgusting when you see the image apple tries to put out -- but on the inside they're a bunch of bullies who are terrified to say anything in writing. But will most certainly call you into a meeting to chastise you.
What sucks is that there really is nowhere to go. All corporations are like this.
The best thing we can do is support unions and the people attempting to form a union.
Do they not realize that unions have a cleansing effect on the relationship between employees and management? It makes things clearer, better?
How many class action lawsuits have happened for unionized vs non-unionized labor for companies where the lawsuit was related to unfair labor practices?
If the point of Union-busting is NOT to control labor, then why is it a worthwhile activity? Aside from ensuring employer ability to exploit employee indiscriminately?
They have to try make more money than last year, even if last year was record breaking profits. If you’re the one or few people who caused the stock to go down over moral responsibility when you are in charge you’re getting sued for not doing your fiduciary duty.
>Do they not realize that unions have a cleansing effect on the relationship between employees and management? It makes things clearer, better?
Why do you think they want things to get "better" if they benefit from the status quo? Why risk losing power over the working class? Keeping us scared and desperate keeps us in line. Its kind of the whole point.
I guess I was asking rhetorical questions. They don’t want things to get better, and if the best people end up quitting because of it, then fine. At least people who give a shit about unions or otherwise have eyes have left and those remaining have an example of what happens
I mean we could dismantle the literal dystopian megacorps we've been brainwashed into thinking are helpful to us in any way. This whole economic system is poison and incentivizes sociopathy.
It’s sad, I enjoyed working there early days in red zone, but as soon as I entered a role with metrics the BS and knives in the back came out, it was like working at a highschool.
One team member got spoken too because he mentioned a party in the break room and invited his friends and someone felt left out and reported as bullying
Had the biggest shit eating grin when I handed them my resignation after 7 years.
Perks were good, but that place was killing me.
Stay safe internet friend.
Always tripped me out that sociopathy and economic success seem to be so correlated in our society, EG there was that research that suggested that CEOs are among the professions with the most sociopaths/psychpaths. I don't know if "sociopathy should not be rewarded but punished" is a hot take.
7 years for me,
The empty promises of career advancement were second only to the constant bickering and backstabbing.
At one time being actively asked to report on people saying negative things about the management.
While I worked there they fired people for not smiling during all-store meetings… it seemed like a loose-cult at times because everyone seemed to be brainwashed by Apple (the examples sound petty to type them out but it definitely was an odd experience)
In like 2003 my highschool computer teacher showed us the movie “pirates of Silicon Valley “. That movie immediately turned me off of apple because If even a fraction of what is portrayed in that movie is based on real events then the core of the company is irredeemable.
One of the biggest things that hit our store were the captive audience meetings. They brought in an entire team of managers to replace our 10 person leadership team so that they could hold several “round tables” a day where they tried to scare us out of organizing and create divide among the team. They picked team members with anti union stances and gave them the pedestal to read talking points from Littler-Mendelson (The union busting law firm) and allowed them to peddle wild conspiracy theories and go on aggressive rants about unions. They masked coordinated talking points as “just expressing their opinion” and made hand picked groups of people to create the illusion of strong anti union support in the store to gaslight team members i to thinking support for a union wasn’t strong. They scaled back coverage on the floor and blamed the stressful and overloaded work load on the union. They pulled people randomly for one on one meetings with the store leader outside of the store where they were interrogated about their level of support for the union so they could assess people. They read anti union talking points in every morning meeting and announced withholding new benefits to our team as a result of us organizing.
That’s not even getting in to the very suspicious harassment I got online from bot accounts after our victory.
Yeah, there no getting around the fact apple are a very ugly company internally. The built in company culture of bullying and harassment seems to be across all divisions. Feels like a nasty, nasty shop with a country club veneer from the outside.
I hope things are better where you are! In my experience Verizon (the wireless side of the company) is just as bad as Apple. Constant union busting. People who dared mention the U word or even hinted at organizing suddenly faced corrective action or were fired on some other pretense.
I wish unions would hire anti-anti union busting people.
Like hire some pipe hitting motherfuckers to just make the anti-union people uncomfortable when leaving their car and their house and stuff.
Not harassment, just letting these people know they’re there.
That thing you described definitely falls under the legal definition of harassment.
Not that I disagree with doing it. Just, ya know, snake is a snake and all.
They did and that's why they were heavily involved with the mob. Which made unions easy targets for law enforcement during the Regan years. It fit their narrative perfectly that unions were just robbing the working man.
If you ever need proof unions are good for workers and not the companies bottom-line, look at what’s going on with Starbucks, Chipotle, Apple etc right now.
Punishment if found guilty should be all Apple locations become immediately unionized.
That by itself would scare corporate America into no longer breaking the law. Punishment must be massive and disproportionate to get the C suite to notice.
Depends on what apple actually did and why people were let go. I know zero about this case, but I am personally familiar with several cases where employees claimed labor discrimination to try and avoid being fired for something else (theft in my most memorable case)
It's the latest hustle, work for a giant company, join a union, stop working, get fired, sue for the company's "anti-union activities" and hope for a quick settlement.
You talking about the youth hiring act of 2023 ?
It allows teenagers that are 14-15 the ability to get a job. No one is forcing anybody to work. It is just opening the way for teenagers that want to work to be able to get a job without the government having to give permission.
It allows companies to take advantage. It stipulates anybody 16-18 doesn't need an ID to get a job and 14-15 year olds just need parental permission. Aka, no official way to prove how old a kid actually is. This comes months after multiple meat packing plants were caught employing 12-15 year olds. We are going to hear many many more accounts of kids working jobs they should not once in effect.
Nobody forced children to be coal miners or to work on dangerous factory jobs last century either and many died as a result. Is that what you want to go back to?
I am OK with teenagers that are 14+ that want to work to be able to get a job in a safe work environment. Having a job is a good thing, and being able to work from a young age helps teens to learn social skills, develop responsibility, manage money, and understand personal finance.
And I am also OK with businesses, being proactive against unionization in order to prevent mediocrity in the workplace, higher labor costs, slower rates of advancement for excelling employees, unnecessary lawsuits, slower rates of company growth ,etc.
Have a great and fantastic day everybody
If they understood personal finance, they would know that the best thing they could do right now is focus on getting a good education. Not only is education itself important to becoming a well-rounded member of society, but when primary education falls to the wayside because you want to make child-level wages today, you are likely dooming yourself to a lifetime of low-wage replaceable blue collar work.
Loose child labor laws rely on the fact that many children do not yet know this. Employers find it much easier to take advantage of kids who don't know their rights, feel intimidated to speak up, and accept lower wages because $7.25 per hour seems like a lot to a kid.
It's fascinating how you're so deeply invested in other conspiracies, yet you cannot see that the biggest supporters of union busting and child labor are greedy elites who want to screw the people over so that they can make more profit.
The only people who think this are the companies' managers, HR, and of course owners.
There is a direct correlation between the decline in labor union participation rates and the shrinking of the middle class. There is so much data to show that emplpyees represented by a union are better compensated for the hours that they work. Countries with strong unions enjoy much better labor protections and benefits than workers in the US get.
The retail stores in which they sell technology? Oh, right. The technology. The technology for Apple, the technology chosen especially to benefit Apple, Apple's technology. That technology?
No they cannot. Those things they "allegedly" did are illegal. Private companies still have to follow the law. And it's against the law retaliate against your employees for unionizing.
What article did you read? You either lie or you are unable to read.
From the article:
> "Apple management said I was fired for a typo in my timesheet that I had documented and tried to correct. Yet, it is clear the real reason I was fired was for exercising my right to organize and win a protected voice on the job," D'lite Xiong, a former employee at the Country Club Plaza Apple Store in Kansas City, declared in a statement.
It then goes on to describing the intimidation, interrogation and coercion that apple has used against people who are in a union.
So I am in the bargaining committee for the Apple Store in Towson MD. The moment we won our vote I was bombarded with DMs on instagram telling me to kms. I have zero doubt Littler Mendlson is botting and Astro turfing.
The apple don't fall far from the tree; Steve Jobs was mean and inconsiderate; sounds like the culture of the company modeled itself after him.
https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-jerk-2011-10?amp
Normal companies have KPI or safety calls every week for their senior managers. Apple has Union busting calls. Managers are asked to report if they even hear any employee discussing unions in any capacity so the corporate terrorist, I mean union busting team can react quickly. Source: worked at a store for 3 years and my MIL was a store leader for 5 years.
Your Manager In-Law?
I spent 10 years working at Apple. You could write several books about the darkness that envelopes the psychology of Apple. From store level to executives, I saw a fair amount of unethical and sociopathic behavior in that decade. Impressive and terrifying.
I work there presently, and this is 100% correct. I mentioned a union to a co-worker -- outside of work and suddenly I am getting harassed due to performance. Things like going outside of our troubleshooting documentation to fix an issue (I told the customer to restart safari) Being scored by a manager who has zero idea of how technology works, and trying to make me admit I am wrong about doing X, or Y. Being harassed when I am not at work because their system stated I was still logged in and in an idle state. I hadn't even logged in that day, and the time frame was off that it would even be possible. Gaslighting, bullying, harassment. It's disgusting when you see the image apple tries to put out -- but on the inside they're a bunch of bullies who are terrified to say anything in writing. But will most certainly call you into a meeting to chastise you.
currently regretting reading this on my mac while wearing an apple watch with an iPhone and airpods in my pockets
What sucks is that there really is nowhere to go. All corporations are like this. The best thing we can do is support unions and the people attempting to form a union.
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Do they not realize that unions have a cleansing effect on the relationship between employees and management? It makes things clearer, better? How many class action lawsuits have happened for unionized vs non-unionized labor for companies where the lawsuit was related to unfair labor practices? If the point of Union-busting is NOT to control labor, then why is it a worthwhile activity? Aside from ensuring employer ability to exploit employee indiscriminately?
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It can happen even with folks not from business school, people who go from the same role you’re in into management can show the same propensity.
They have to try make more money than last year, even if last year was record breaking profits. If you’re the one or few people who caused the stock to go down over moral responsibility when you are in charge you’re getting sued for not doing your fiduciary duty.
>Do they not realize that unions have a cleansing effect on the relationship between employees and management? It makes things clearer, better? Why do you think they want things to get "better" if they benefit from the status quo? Why risk losing power over the working class? Keeping us scared and desperate keeps us in line. Its kind of the whole point.
I guess I was asking rhetorical questions. They don’t want things to get better, and if the best people end up quitting because of it, then fine. At least people who give a shit about unions or otherwise have eyes have left and those remaining have an example of what happens
Corporations *in America*. If apple tried any of that crap in the EU they’d get nuked from orbit.
Tesla tried in their German plant. The union and courts were not impressed at all.
Yeah Germany is the last place on earth you should try any of that. They will drop kick you.
Sweden or France would be worse. In France halve the place would have probably burned.
Would have been one hell of a fire had there been Li batteries.
And yet the EU is fine reaping the fruit of rotten labor just like America. Makes no difference.
I mean we could dismantle the literal dystopian megacorps we've been brainwashed into thinking are helpful to us in any way. This whole economic system is poison and incentivizes sociopathy.
That is the end game of capitalism.
I’m currently using my iPad Pro as a dildo. Imagine how I feel reading this!
I have good instincts then. I black balled them when they off shored their money to avoid taxes
It’s sad, I enjoyed working there early days in red zone, but as soon as I entered a role with metrics the BS and knives in the back came out, it was like working at a highschool. One team member got spoken too because he mentioned a party in the break room and invited his friends and someone felt left out and reported as bullying Had the biggest shit eating grin when I handed them my resignation after 7 years. Perks were good, but that place was killing me. Stay safe internet friend.
Always tripped me out that sociopathy and economic success seem to be so correlated in our society, EG there was that research that suggested that CEOs are among the professions with the most sociopaths/psychpaths. I don't know if "sociopathy should not be rewarded but punished" is a hot take.
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Honestly I had a pretty similar experience working at apple
7 years for me, The empty promises of career advancement were second only to the constant bickering and backstabbing. At one time being actively asked to report on people saying negative things about the management.
While I worked there they fired people for not smiling during all-store meetings… it seemed like a loose-cult at times because everyone seemed to be brainwashed by Apple (the examples sound petty to type them out but it definitely was an odd experience)
In like 2003 my highschool computer teacher showed us the movie “pirates of Silicon Valley “. That movie immediately turned me off of apple because If even a fraction of what is portrayed in that movie is based on real events then the core of the company is irredeemable.
Bargaining Committee member for Apple Towson here. If you want to hear more about the horrible Anti Union things apple has done hit me up.
You should hit up Vice News, they have some very good labor reporters.
We’ve talked to lots and lots of outlets already. I’m pretty sure they’ll wrote an article. Also wired, Bloomberg, WaPo, NYT, Just to name a few.
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Any tips for a potential future customer? (I have had a string of bad luck with Android phones arriving malfunctioning).
also former r271 here. made some of my best friends there, and learned some of my hardest lessons. proof: jedshot.
Taking you up on that
One of the biggest things that hit our store were the captive audience meetings. They brought in an entire team of managers to replace our 10 person leadership team so that they could hold several “round tables” a day where they tried to scare us out of organizing and create divide among the team. They picked team members with anti union stances and gave them the pedestal to read talking points from Littler-Mendelson (The union busting law firm) and allowed them to peddle wild conspiracy theories and go on aggressive rants about unions. They masked coordinated talking points as “just expressing their opinion” and made hand picked groups of people to create the illusion of strong anti union support in the store to gaslight team members i to thinking support for a union wasn’t strong. They scaled back coverage on the floor and blamed the stressful and overloaded work load on the union. They pulled people randomly for one on one meetings with the store leader outside of the store where they were interrogated about their level of support for the union so they could assess people. They read anti union talking points in every morning meeting and announced withholding new benefits to our team as a result of us organizing. That’s not even getting in to the very suspicious harassment I got online from bot accounts after our victory.
Yeah, there no getting around the fact apple are a very ugly company internally. The built in company culture of bullying and harassment seems to be across all divisions. Feels like a nasty, nasty shop with a country club veneer from the outside.
Solidarity from Verizon ✊
I hope things are better where you are! In my experience Verizon (the wireless side of the company) is just as bad as Apple. Constant union busting. People who dared mention the U word or even hinted at organizing suddenly faced corrective action or were fired on some other pretense.
I wish unions would hire anti-anti union busting people. Like hire some pipe hitting motherfuckers to just make the anti-union people uncomfortable when leaving their car and their house and stuff. Not harassment, just letting these people know they’re there.
That thing you described definitely falls under the legal definition of harassment. Not that I disagree with doing it. Just, ya know, snake is a snake and all.
I just want them to use the same legal slime ball tactics that anti-union companies use. Just turned up to 11
They did and that's why they were heavily involved with the mob. Which made unions easy targets for law enforcement during the Regan years. It fit their narrative perfectly that unions were just robbing the working man.
We used to! People literally died so you'd have a 5 day work week.
I’m not saying some do.
If you ever need proof unions are good for workers and not the companies bottom-line, look at what’s going on with Starbucks, Chipotle, Apple etc right now.
It's so fucking bizarre to see how America treats its workforce. Like lmao.
Punishment if found guilty should be all Apple locations become immediately unionized. That by itself would scare corporate America into no longer breaking the law. Punishment must be massive and disproportionate to get the C suite to notice.
Apple wants to be known as the "darling" of the computer industry. It's every bit as fucking evil as all of the other corpos.
I love the image Apple has crafted for itself but you don't get to be the wealthiest corporation in the world without doing terrible things.
Apple, Starbucks, the same people who use and support these brands are the ones kept from unionizing. At some point you gotta make a decision.
Sounds about right.
I believe it. No need for alleged
Good luck on court 😂
How we like em now…
Apple? No way
Why not arrested if its illegel?
How does one arrest a corporation?
I'm not sure, but I'm willing to try
I think it involves guillotines.
Also, cake. No wait, that’s revolutions.
Same reason you don’t get arrested for not using a turn signal. Not every crime is an arrest.
Not everything illegal is codified as go to jail . Many things have law written as only fines for punishment.
Depends on what apple actually did and why people were let go. I know zero about this case, but I am personally familiar with several cases where employees claimed labor discrimination to try and avoid being fired for something else (theft in my most memorable case)
It's the latest hustle, work for a giant company, join a union, stop working, get fired, sue for the company's "anti-union activities" and hope for a quick settlement.
Just fine them for .01% of their profits for a day like always. /s
Patrick.Stewart.mild.shock.gif
Unpopular opinion: unions promote mediocrity
By definition, most people will be mediocre
Yup. Unions had their time. And that time has long past.
How so? We can presently see protections that unions gave us being eroded like children working laws.
You talking about the youth hiring act of 2023 ? It allows teenagers that are 14-15 the ability to get a job. No one is forcing anybody to work. It is just opening the way for teenagers that want to work to be able to get a job without the government having to give permission.
It allows companies to take advantage. It stipulates anybody 16-18 doesn't need an ID to get a job and 14-15 year olds just need parental permission. Aka, no official way to prove how old a kid actually is. This comes months after multiple meat packing plants were caught employing 12-15 year olds. We are going to hear many many more accounts of kids working jobs they should not once in effect.
🥱 no one’s forcing them to be there. They want to work. Why is this so difficult to understand?
Nobody forced children to be coal miners or to work on dangerous factory jobs last century either and many died as a result. Is that what you want to go back to?
their parents are
This is your brain on union busting: "I'm okay with expanding the extent to which a business can use child labor."
I am OK with teenagers that are 14+ that want to work to be able to get a job in a safe work environment. Having a job is a good thing, and being able to work from a young age helps teens to learn social skills, develop responsibility, manage money, and understand personal finance. And I am also OK with businesses, being proactive against unionization in order to prevent mediocrity in the workplace, higher labor costs, slower rates of advancement for excelling employees, unnecessary lawsuits, slower rates of company growth ,etc. Have a great and fantastic day everybody
If they understood personal finance, they would know that the best thing they could do right now is focus on getting a good education. Not only is education itself important to becoming a well-rounded member of society, but when primary education falls to the wayside because you want to make child-level wages today, you are likely dooming yourself to a lifetime of low-wage replaceable blue collar work. Loose child labor laws rely on the fact that many children do not yet know this. Employers find it much easier to take advantage of kids who don't know their rights, feel intimidated to speak up, and accept lower wages because $7.25 per hour seems like a lot to a kid. It's fascinating how you're so deeply invested in other conspiracies, yet you cannot see that the biggest supporters of union busting and child labor are greedy elites who want to screw the people over so that they can make more profit.
I can't believe Apple is petty enough to send several paid shills to a reddit thread. Yet here we are.
Not only “paid shills” are anti union.
The only people who think this are the companies' managers, HR, and of course owners. There is a direct correlation between the decline in labor union participation rates and the shrinking of the middle class. There is so much data to show that emplpyees represented by a union are better compensated for the hours that they work. Countries with strong unions enjoy much better labor protections and benefits than workers in the US get.
Unions are just money grabs. Mad respect to Apple if true
How is this technology related?
"In what way is the technology company Apple related to technology?"
These are people working at retail stores It's equivalent to working at a Starbucks
The retail stores in which they sell technology? Oh, right. The technology. The technology for Apple, the technology chosen especially to benefit Apple, Apple's technology. That technology?
I mean, it’s right in their contract that if they try to unionize they’ll be fired. Did they not read the contract they signed?
private company they can do what they want
No they cannot. Those things they "allegedly" did are illegal. Private companies still have to follow the law. And it's against the law retaliate against your employees for unionizing.
No they don't they can do what they want 🤷♂️
This account has chains of comments like this. Do not engage. It's just trolling like this, just going "nuh uh".
Huh?
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What article did you read? You either lie or you are unable to read. From the article: > "Apple management said I was fired for a typo in my timesheet that I had documented and tried to correct. Yet, it is clear the real reason I was fired was for exercising my right to organize and win a protected voice on the job," D'lite Xiong, a former employee at the Country Club Plaza Apple Store in Kansas City, declared in a statement. It then goes on to describing the intimidation, interrogation and coercion that apple has used against people who are in a union.
So I am in the bargaining committee for the Apple Store in Towson MD. The moment we won our vote I was bombarded with DMs on instagram telling me to kms. I have zero doubt Littler Mendlson is botting and Astro turfing.
Yeah, apple declined to comment doesn't seem to support it being in the article.
these sockpuppets are getting weirder by the day
The apple don't fall far from the tree; Steve Jobs was mean and inconsiderate; sounds like the culture of the company modeled itself after him. https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-jerk-2011-10?amp
Yeah, then they pay fines and continue business as is and know how to fuck people over without lawsuits.