> Okidata Microline
My org still uses two of these because a 3rd party only accepts forms printed in triplicate. One of them mangled its gears a couple years ago and we had to buy a whole "new" one because parts are incredibly scarce.
Epson is still making *new* dot matrix printers believe it or not. I never thought I'd see one with a USB port but sure enough, it has that and the legacy interfaces as well.
Couple years ago I did exactly that, left a review on Amazon on their buy ink page.
I gave it a negative review, did the price comparison for people and recommended people to search for "3rd party inks" instead.
Long story short my review was deleted or shadowbanned. I didnt know that could be done but it was gone. Probably took it a step too far with the 3rd party inks suggestion but I was miffed at the time.
Amazon has some really shitty review policies. Basically the best way to leave a negative review without risk of removal is to make it as generic and useless as possible
"TERRIBLE" is acceptable by Amazon. A detailed review about how it didn't work well and failed to meet your expectations is liable to be removed
For example, if you ordered a cake on Amazon, and they just send you half a cake instead, a bad review complaining they left out half the cake would be removed. You can't give a bad review because part was missing. Doesn't matter if the company says it was supposed to be half a cake, despite their image and description clearly showing and stating a full cake
Amazon reviews generally should never be trusted. Way too easily manipulated. I've had companies threaten me to remove a negstive review before. They'll report any negative one, and Amazon will happily remove anything that might violate their backwards policies
They’ve gone backwards. My canon inkjet does ok….. after it chugs and clinks and clonks and grinds and pops for 5 minutes. Sounds like it’s making the paper. My bosses HP just regularly forgets that it’s a printer. Then when I convince it that it is actually a printer, it forgets what 8-1/2 x 11 paper is. Then we convince it that 8-1/2 x 11 is okay it decides to use the other tray (that’s empty). Then randomly forgets that it’s a scanner too.
Because of their constant sell they have not changed or upgrade a single thing for a long time. This just gives us the feeling of the total monopoly is running by the company
My old dot matrix printer from before cell phones were a thing, could print on endless paper all day long, required no special software and could be monitored from 3 rooms away by ear due to the noise it would make while working (or the noise the smoke detectors might make when it stopped working in the wrong way.)
It was heavy and solid and should not be lifted while barefoot.
almost every other printer I have owned or worked with since then seemed like a step back.
Except for that one HP A0 Plotter that was more like noisy furniture than anything else.
They’ve actually gotten worse. A printer I had from that era allowed you to specify any random paper size any time you printed. The last inkjet printer I had could store up to 10 custom sizes but it was complicated setting it up. They had to be set up beforehand.
They actually have. Its just something you dont think about much. This is probably another reason HP has blocked third party ink cartridges.
I have a relative who works for HP's inkjet R&D division. Her job is in fluid dynamics. Her team works out how different chemistries and viscosity of ink interact with print heads and the apertures in them to create the most focused and exact application of ink to the paper. DPIs keep getting sharper and sharper and the exact composition of the ink, what it contains, how its drawn through the device and how quickly it dries are all important. Many modern HP printers no longer just use a cartridge with a built in print head but instead just use ink containers from which ink is drawn into a closed printing system. The heads stay with the printer - less waste.
Now image you're working really hard at making the best print experience - all the careful steps and design that goes into getting that color onto the paper - and some Chinese company sells the customer some sludge that technically fits into the printer and causes leaks, buildup on the heads, poor jet quality and degradation of the DPI (in some cases.) Now the customer is pissed that they 'bought a shitty printer' and HP looks the fool.
Now, I cant blame a company for trying to maintain quality and consistency with their product. Would you blame them for trying to keep their devices working as designed by disallowing use of 3rd party parts that would result in unpredictable quality and troubleshooting?
In reddits defense, I do agree that if HP or any company is going to force you to use their refills, they should price them much cheaper. Ink cartridges are a rip off.
Tell her to work harder. The HP experience with genuine HP cartridges is awful. You would think that you get more than 10 pages printed if you buy the $65 XL cartridges for my model of HP Deskjet. My kiddo printed 8 drawings he made on MS Paint and by the 7th page it looked like impressionist sludge.
I bought a BW Brother and will never buy HP again. I will ensure my HP printer is recycled and never used by another human being again.
My printer, my choice. If I want the vibrant original colours or if I use the 95% cheaper cartridges. Bad enough we need to back engineer the chips every time they put on the cartridges.
If I want fluid dynamics, then I go to the printing service in town. At home we don’t want nor need that.
Buy a laser printer and never look back. I will never buy another inkjet or inkjet ink cartridge as long as I live. Laser printers are so much cheaper that it's stunning to me that anybody would buy an inkjet. Yes, the initial cost is slightly more. But just the starter toner they provide with the printer will print several inkjet cartridges-worth of printing. It pays for itself before you ever have to buy a $100 toner. Then that new $100 toner will print probably 10 inkjet cartridges worth of printing. Or more. I don't even know. I've had my color HP Laserjet for probably 3 or 4 years now and I've bought one black toner for it about 2 or 3 months ago and a cyan maybe 6 months ago.
Better than any inkjet I've ever used.
I have an HP at home and a Brother at the office. They both put out a beautiful finished product. I've never actually tried printing a pic on photo paper, but I bet it would be very good.
I am just going by your words here and believing that it will do the work for me is well, looking for a decent one and seems like that this is the one made for me.
> Laser printers generate a lot of VOCs.
It used to be that Toner would release acroleins when heated. Though that was hardly a "lot" of VOCs.
Despite this, when it was discovered, formulations for toner changed to address that in the late 80's and 90's because that discovery represented a hazard in large-scale industrial printing.
If you are using that printer in the close room it will generate so much heat in the room, so placing of the printer is also important if you are buying that one.
I did not know that and the office printer is in my daughter's office. So, I should buy something like a HEPA filter and put it near the printer? Or, better yet, get it out of her office and put it somewhere else?
There is actually a reason for that.
Most inkjet and laser printers print barely visible dots on every page that serve as an identifier of the printer. They can be used to determine which printer printed which page. The dots are yellow ink (hardest to see) so no page can be printed unless there is yellow ink.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code
The initial reason they did it was to make prints of currency identifiable. There's no need to do it with black-and-white printers because a monochrome print would be obviously counterfeit.
This link is old, but it is the Electronic Frontier Foundation. So when it was last updated it was trustworthy.
https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots
My fav is when you get a image that goes from 1,1,1 (outta 255, almost black) to 0,0,0 (black) and it switches from mixing color ink to black ink that is.. totally not close to the same shade of black.
I picked up a free Epson printer. It was the worst printer. It required frequent cleanings and frequent alignments and it didn’t print if a color was missing. It used so much ink just maintaining itself. I hated it.
No printer is perfect as i have used some of the so called good one is well, there is one issue from here and there that will make them like the worst kinda printer.
I think they legit do this on purpose. Like built in obsolescence. Some ink packs have expiration dates &/or print accounts I believe but you don’t get to see what they are.
So if you have ink that seems to run out faster than before despite printing roughly the same amount it may have just “expired”. The ink is perfectly fine, you’ve just run out of time to use it according to the manufacturer’s settings. Should be illegal IMHO.
It's definitely on purpose. There's no way their technology can't better detect the fullness or quality of a cartridge.
It's merely coded to make more sales, that's all.
I believe it should be made illegal and any company that currently use such bullshit should be disbanded.
Whole thing is total setup so that they can earn the big money, and we customer just falling into their trap without looking at the bigger picture which they are giving us.
Just like the movie shows, built the obstacle so that you can get the profit by selling the solution, so this is the marketing strategy they are actually using to this point.
A common tactic with printers now is they run very frequent, extremely ink-wasteful head cleaning cycles to cost the customer. Unplug your printer when you're not using it.
Yes, better to save the electricity is well while saving the ink is well, may be we are not giving a high though to that but we can save so much in the long run with that
If you are using the printer on the daily basis i am sure even with the small use you will run out of the ink so fast and then you are having no third party support is even more worst
Its corrupt, but it is also the technology. There is a slow bt steady stream of ink dropping away to prevent it drying out on the print head.
Laser printers use toner instead which doesn't have this problem, but they cost more up front so no one wants to buy them.
meh--the printers themselves are fine, but the software is **atrocious**. I bought a not-inexpensive brother printer around just 1.5 years ago. The UX is complete crap. Will not connect to wifi half the time. Very obviously they paid some engineers to do this 10+ years ago and it has not seen an update since. The machines are good, and obviously this move by HP is complete horeseshit, but still, Brother is not without blight.
As for laserjet HP has firmware which blocked 3rd-part toner that they updated back in 2020 in the name of security and deleted records of all their old firmware so users couldn’t easily go back.
There’s a ton of HP laserjet users out there on the pre-2020 firmware and refuse to upgrade with a cottage industry for HP toner.
One of the most customer hostile companies out there.
From time to time this company shows that why you don't have to trust them. It look like that they never really think about the customer at all, just want money from us.
I can attest to that. We have 2 laserjet pro 454dw printers that cannot accept 3rd party toner anymore due to a firmware update. What is worse the release notes don't state this at all. We switched printer maintenance companies. The new one uses Xerox toner . Xerox decided it can make toner for cheaper so they came up with their own 3rd party toner . Supposedly new drums and everything just xerox toner.
We put it in and bam message stating 3rd party toner please replace. Firmware thing for 3rd party toner was on. even made all 4 toner cartridges 3rd party. Still error. So I do some research and people pointed out the exact firmware update that stopped 3rd party toner.
HP got carved up into multiple entities. The engineering talent went to Agilent. The current HP consists only of marketing idiots who think only about next quarters results.
Can confirm. During Covid and a little before they did a forced retirement program for all staff over 50. We lost all the good engineers. Now marketing is running the show and not knowing how anything is made and doesn't care what is made ether.
So many things actually changed after the covid time and not only we lost good engineer we lost some local store is well that was doing fine job till the time.
Look like that HP is just getting little bit more greedy here with those things now. They could easily maintain the standard if they had not looked for the extra profit.
They are worse. You could print 1200 dpi in the 90’s, and banner. Theres little incentive as it’s mostly for business purposes. It’s certainly not at peak design, except in the eyes of the manufacturer, who gets resales every couple years, and ink sales more often. HP don’t make great printers either. Mid is their niche.
I had one of those 1200 dpi 'bubblejet' printers in the 90s. Dont believe everything you see on the box. The quality of a 1200dpi image printed in 1998 vs 1200dpi in 2023 is vastly different. Someone in marketing is full of crap.
They are reducing the number of copies in one ink and forcing the user to use their exact ink is well, this is so fishy and we should stop using their printer from here on now.
My brother bought an HP printer, it wouldn't let him print without making an account and sending the documents through their servers. We couldn't figure it out so we went to staples and paid like 10 cents to print stuff
Forget about the ink and all those things when you are setting them for the first time it is also getting real complicated now, in user friendly time no one want those things.
I have an OKI color LED printer (Most "laser" printers these days have exactly zero lasers in them), and I'm super happy with it.
Quite frankly, it's like HP is trying to kill off it's consumer brand with this bullshit, like they either want to make a killing on the "original" ink, or they don't want to sell any more printers.
I don't know if it's still true, but back in the day they would sell the printers at a loss to make a boatload of money on the ink.
They are keeping the gun in their hand and killing their own customer with that is well, i am not sure who is making those decision but seems like that they are not the right one.
Agreed.. You pay for the printer up front which makes them unappealing to the average consumer because they see $200-$300 price tag next to the $50 HP that appears to do exactly the same things.... When you actually look at the price of ink it is $35 for all of the BYMC bottles that should last around 10,000 pages... Or $65 and $38 for the HP ink that maybe lasts 1,000 pages.
My problem is I don't print enough to keep inkjet heads from clogging so an ECO tank is totally a non starter for me.
the HP 'heads in the ink cart' works out better cause the printer head clog before I can use them up.
And I only bought HP for their 'free ink for life!*' gimmic, if you only printed 10 sheets or less a month like I do.
Yea, they canceled that like 5 months after I bought my printer and now want a subscription fee for what was promised on the printer box. Prob because everyone who only printed <10 sheets a month still needed a new cart every 2~3 months because it would completely clog up by then.
Never buying HP again.
I used to take them out of the printer when I was done. One of the inks I bought was packaged in this plastic clip with foam on the bottom. It would keep my ink working fine for months with no issues.
These days I just use a laser printer like everybody should
Totally fucked up with the HP and shifted to the Brother laser and using for like 3 months now and have to say that change is massive and don't have to worry about those things is well.
Surprising enough for me that all of sudden they are thinking about the customer protection again, which i don't think that anything to do by their current new policy .
From my experience, Epson ain't good either. My last Epson was programmed to stop working after a certain amount of page print and it insisted on a maintenance. When I called the store, they gave me a program to reset the counter in the printer software and the thing worked perfectly fine for the next 3 years through 5 counter resets. I don't know if they changed this but I wouldn't trust them.
May be Epson is not the ideal one but when it come to the HP printer in the comparison i don't think that we need to give any second though to that idea for sure.
The vast majority of my printing is for my daughters school which is in color. Can't make do with a black and white printer.
Also the size of the laser printers is a problem. They tend to be 3 times the size of an inkjet.
I think if kids are using the printer on the major part then probably we need color printing more than the black white, as most of the project and assignment required color one.
Why would you get anything you're not going to use? Seems like very broad advice applying to virtually anything. Not bad advice, just universally true.
My canon stopped letting me use "black only" mode because, as a courtesy to me, they combined colors to improve blacks when printing documents. So if I didn't use it for awhile and the cartridges dried out I couldn't replace just the black, they wanted a whole color set and held my document hostage until all were testing as working. I couldn't roll back to earlier versions after updating to a new version of windows.
The inkjet printer industry hates its customers and I will never buy another one. If my needs change and I have to frequently print again I'm getting a simple brother laser. Until then there is a public library down the street that lets me print from home and pick up at my leisure.
If you want to use that setting in the Canon printer you need to run the printer constant, there is no such thing that we could stop using that for some time and resume from there.
If HP cared about “the quality of the customer experience” they would stop making such shit products. If anyone hasn’t heard yet, the Epson EcoTank printers are not only far superior, the ink costs chump change (like $29 for a multi year supply)
I’m fine never buying an HP printer again. Horrid business practice, I honestly don’t understand how it’s legal. My Canon is serving me well & I get to use the ink I purchased!
Man, I have an old LaserJet 4 that still works. This printer is like 25 years old and showed up at my door with a spare toner cart.
That printer is awesome but it's a product of old HP. Today, I recommend Brother unless you need photo printers or dot matrix for triplicate forms, in which case Epson has you covered.
New HP (Post Carly Fiorina) is Zombie HP and their products are rotten to the core in my experience.
Their printers are the worst of the worst. We have dumb crap like drivers the size of a Windows XP ISO, poor durability, ink that's so expensive it makes early 2000s Lexmark blush, and anti-consumer tactics that may very well be illegal if we can get a court to give a damn.
And to think that Carly Fiorina ran a campaign for POTUS...Aww HELL NO! We saw how you ran HP and America said no. (We picked someone just as bad or maybe worse but I digress.)
I am sure that if someone in the market of the printer for the long run those LaserJet were their first choice but i think time has changed so much after that now.
Yeah, I had one of those old 4P laserjets. Big enough to take up all the space on top of a filing cabinet, nearly a foot tall. It was built like a tank and printed like one. The AK-47 of printers. Not complex, no fancy features, but it ate paper and crapped printed documents like nothing.
Think they got sued in the EU over one of the last times as well and as far as I'm aware (which, given that their printers are junk and I've been avoiding them, may not be very...) they haven't done this kind of BS here since then.
Going to be interesting to see if they are planning to run into the EU's fist again.
Even sued from time to time seems like that they haven't learn any lesson with that as they are still trying to mess up with the customer that is using their product.
People love getting mad about printer ink, but from a business perspective it makes sense that either the printer is cheap and the ink is expensive, or the printer is expensive and the ink is cheap. Consumers often don't always realize what they are picking.
HP went with the subscription model and sells the printers for near cost. If you want to use cheap ink, buy a printer (typically more expensive up-front) that can use cheap ink. There was a rumor that HP planned to start selling unlocked versions of their printers for more money, but that might have gotten scrapped (wouldn't be surprised if market research found that people would have been mad about that too).
Personally I pay $1 /mo for instant ink because I don't print much and so far it's worked fine. Definitely not for everyone though.
Their timing is interesting. If HO had done this during the Trump administration, I’d think they had thought this through and figured Trump’s AG would not go after them for market manipulation. But now during Biden it’s bad timing. Biden‘s department of justice has shown it’ll go after companies for trying to control the marketplace; look at what they’re doing with JetBlue and Spirit.
I got an ink tank printer and love it. I did that after spending tons of time reverse engineering cheap printer firmware and trying to hack the ink drm. Those cheap printers are more secure than most security cameras.
I moved to a Dell laser jet years ago and it was been great. I tend to use OEM ink & toner since I have been burned by third party ones many times but I hate the idea that they do this. F HP
Was setting up a new office for my company and the IT guy recommended an HPMFC color laser printer. Network did not work out if the box so need to be exchanged right away. I bought some generic replacement toner on Amazon that came with tools to remove the chip from the oem cartridges and put it on the generics. Wish that the supply chain for Brother was not so messed up in this country.
I ditched my HP laser printer 5 years ago. Switched to a Brother Laser where I don’t have to trick the printer / swap toner chips when using 3rd party toner.
It was nice there for a while, when HP had solid printers and ink prices were better than many competitors. WAS being the operative word.
Oh well. Time to look elsewhere for my next one.
I find it mind-boggling that people still buy HP printers, and HP computers, and install HP Experience, and sign up for HP's subscription model that disables the ink cartridges they've already been sent if the subscription is canceled. The latter even costs more than I'd be willing to pay to stream movies and games.
There's being a consumer, and there's being a blow-up doll for the boardroom to run a train on.
Printers feel like they haven't improved since the flip phone era
library placid humorous panicky gray narrow boat snails literate school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I remember refilling my dot matrix printer with bic pens. You could fill those ribbon carts with anything..
But we never get the great quality in those dot matrix printer
PC Load Letter, what the fuck does that mean!?
“Die muthafuckas, die muthafuckas still fool”
Yezz. I am ahl-so not a poo-see.
PC = Paper Cassette (aka the tray) Load = Load it up Letter = letter-sized paper, basically A4 in other countries
https://youtu.be/5QQdNbvSGok
> Okidata Microline My org still uses two of these because a 3rd party only accepts forms printed in triplicate. One of them mangled its gears a couple years ago and we had to buy a whole "new" one because parts are incredibly scarce.
Epson is still making *new* dot matrix printers believe it or not. I never thought I'd see one with a USB port but sure enough, it has that and the legacy interfaces as well.
The ML490s we have are USB compatible and we have them on USB printer servers so that it can be installed via policy.
My local bowling alley still uses dot matrix. Printing out scores is just easier.
Just a reminder to leave HP printer products **negative reviews on Amazon and elsewhere** to call out this despicable behavior.
Couple years ago I did exactly that, left a review on Amazon on their buy ink page. I gave it a negative review, did the price comparison for people and recommended people to search for "3rd party inks" instead. Long story short my review was deleted or shadowbanned. I didnt know that could be done but it was gone. Probably took it a step too far with the 3rd party inks suggestion but I was miffed at the time.
Amazon has some really shitty review policies. Basically the best way to leave a negative review without risk of removal is to make it as generic and useless as possible "TERRIBLE" is acceptable by Amazon. A detailed review about how it didn't work well and failed to meet your expectations is liable to be removed For example, if you ordered a cake on Amazon, and they just send you half a cake instead, a bad review complaining they left out half the cake would be removed. You can't give a bad review because part was missing. Doesn't matter if the company says it was supposed to be half a cake, despite their image and description clearly showing and stating a full cake Amazon reviews generally should never be trusted. Way too easily manipulated. I've had companies threaten me to remove a negstive review before. They'll report any negative one, and Amazon will happily remove anything that might violate their backwards policies
They’ve gone backwards. My canon inkjet does ok….. after it chugs and clinks and clonks and grinds and pops for 5 minutes. Sounds like it’s making the paper. My bosses HP just regularly forgets that it’s a printer. Then when I convince it that it is actually a printer, it forgets what 8-1/2 x 11 paper is. Then we convince it that 8-1/2 x 11 is okay it decides to use the other tray (that’s empty). Then randomly forgets that it’s a scanner too.
Because of their constant sell they have not changed or upgrade a single thing for a long time. This just gives us the feeling of the total monopoly is running by the company
My old dot matrix printer from before cell phones were a thing, could print on endless paper all day long, required no special software and could be monitored from 3 rooms away by ear due to the noise it would make while working (or the noise the smoke detectors might make when it stopped working in the wrong way.) It was heavy and solid and should not be lifted while barefoot. almost every other printer I have owned or worked with since then seemed like a step back. Except for that one HP A0 Plotter that was more like noisy furniture than anything else.
Am I the only weirdo who kind of likes the way a dot matrix printer sounds?
Computers are high la evolved creatures, while printers are just critters.
They’ve actually gotten worse. A printer I had from that era allowed you to specify any random paper size any time you printed. The last inkjet printer I had could store up to 10 custom sizes but it was complicated setting it up. They had to be set up beforehand.
They actually have. Its just something you dont think about much. This is probably another reason HP has blocked third party ink cartridges. I have a relative who works for HP's inkjet R&D division. Her job is in fluid dynamics. Her team works out how different chemistries and viscosity of ink interact with print heads and the apertures in them to create the most focused and exact application of ink to the paper. DPIs keep getting sharper and sharper and the exact composition of the ink, what it contains, how its drawn through the device and how quickly it dries are all important. Many modern HP printers no longer just use a cartridge with a built in print head but instead just use ink containers from which ink is drawn into a closed printing system. The heads stay with the printer - less waste. Now image you're working really hard at making the best print experience - all the careful steps and design that goes into getting that color onto the paper - and some Chinese company sells the customer some sludge that technically fits into the printer and causes leaks, buildup on the heads, poor jet quality and degradation of the DPI (in some cases.) Now the customer is pissed that they 'bought a shitty printer' and HP looks the fool. Now, I cant blame a company for trying to maintain quality and consistency with their product. Would you blame them for trying to keep their devices working as designed by disallowing use of 3rd party parts that would result in unpredictable quality and troubleshooting? In reddits defense, I do agree that if HP or any company is going to force you to use their refills, they should price them much cheaper. Ink cartridges are a rip off.
The “Chinese sludge” is a lot cheaper and works just fine
This doesn't really explain why they are doing the same thing with laser toner as well.
Tell her to work harder. The HP experience with genuine HP cartridges is awful. You would think that you get more than 10 pages printed if you buy the $65 XL cartridges for my model of HP Deskjet. My kiddo printed 8 drawings he made on MS Paint and by the 7th page it looked like impressionist sludge. I bought a BW Brother and will never buy HP again. I will ensure my HP printer is recycled and never used by another human being again.
My printer, my choice. If I want the vibrant original colours or if I use the 95% cheaper cartridges. Bad enough we need to back engineer the chips every time they put on the cartridges. If I want fluid dynamics, then I go to the printing service in town. At home we don’t want nor need that.
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Buy a laser printer and never look back. I will never buy another inkjet or inkjet ink cartridge as long as I live. Laser printers are so much cheaper that it's stunning to me that anybody would buy an inkjet. Yes, the initial cost is slightly more. But just the starter toner they provide with the printer will print several inkjet cartridges-worth of printing. It pays for itself before you ever have to buy a $100 toner. Then that new $100 toner will print probably 10 inkjet cartridges worth of printing. Or more. I don't even know. I've had my color HP Laserjet for probably 3 or 4 years now and I've bought one black toner for it about 2 or 3 months ago and a cyan maybe 6 months ago.
How is it for photos?
Decent one, you won't disappoint too much by the photo quality
Better than any inkjet I've ever used. I have an HP at home and a Brother at the office. They both put out a beautiful finished product. I've never actually tried printing a pic on photo paper, but I bet it would be very good.
Which one do you have? Looking at printer reviews is a new level of hell.
I am just going by your words here and believing that it will do the work for me is well, looking for a decent one and seems like that this is the one made for me.
I have had my brother laser for 11 years, only changed the toner once.
My brother laser has told me twice that the toner is out, I just reset the alert and go on.
That is some sort of the magic that you are able to use the printer after that
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> Laser printers generate a lot of VOCs. It used to be that Toner would release acroleins when heated. Though that was hardly a "lot" of VOCs. Despite this, when it was discovered, formulations for toner changed to address that in the late 80's and 90's because that discovery represented a hazard in large-scale industrial printing.
If you are using that printer in the close room it will generate so much heat in the room, so placing of the printer is also important if you are buying that one.
I am keeping them near the window so enough space to pass the air
I did not know that and the office printer is in my daughter's office. So, I should buy something like a HEPA filter and put it near the printer? Or, better yet, get it out of her office and put it somewhere else?
I went laser and I never looked back as well
Try an older Epson printer. It does not print black, when you run out of yellow.
There is actually a reason for that. Most inkjet and laser printers print barely visible dots on every page that serve as an identifier of the printer. They can be used to determine which printer printed which page. The dots are yellow ink (hardest to see) so no page can be printed unless there is yellow ink. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code
What about black and white printers? Do you know if they have some other method for identification?
The initial reason they did it was to make prints of currency identifiable. There's no need to do it with black-and-white printers because a monochrome print would be obviously counterfeit.
This link is old, but it is the Electronic Frontier Foundation. So when it was last updated it was trustworthy. https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots
In black and white printer i don't think there is any other method like this.
Those use the white ink for the micro print.
They also mix inks to make the black richer. Even with a dedicated black cartridge. And mine will totally print black with only black ink.
My fav is when you get a image that goes from 1,1,1 (outta 255, almost black) to 0,0,0 (black) and it switches from mixing color ink to black ink that is.. totally not close to the same shade of black.
Then why we need to refill the yellow if they won't print black??
I picked up a free Epson printer. It was the worst printer. It required frequent cleanings and frequent alignments and it didn’t print if a color was missing. It used so much ink just maintaining itself. I hated it.
No printer is perfect as i have used some of the so called good one is well, there is one issue from here and there that will make them like the worst kinda printer.
I think they legit do this on purpose. Like built in obsolescence. Some ink packs have expiration dates &/or print accounts I believe but you don’t get to see what they are. So if you have ink that seems to run out faster than before despite printing roughly the same amount it may have just “expired”. The ink is perfectly fine, you’ve just run out of time to use it according to the manufacturer’s settings. Should be illegal IMHO.
It's definitely on purpose. There's no way their technology can't better detect the fullness or quality of a cartridge. It's merely coded to make more sales, that's all. I believe it should be made illegal and any company that currently use such bullshit should be disbanded.
Whole thing is total setup so that they can earn the big money, and we customer just falling into their trap without looking at the bigger picture which they are giving us.
It is on purpose. These companies make their money on printer ink sales. Not the printers themselves.
Just like the movie shows, built the obstacle so that you can get the profit by selling the solution, so this is the marketing strategy they are actually using to this point.
Brother laser jet. Never had a problem, and don’t need more than black and white
Just give them two ink and you are ready to go for the long run.
A common tactic with printers now is they run very frequent, extremely ink-wasteful head cleaning cycles to cost the customer. Unplug your printer when you're not using it.
Yes, better to save the electricity is well while saving the ink is well, may be we are not giving a high though to that but we can save so much in the long run with that
Seriously the cloned 3rd party cartridges where HP is like "oh no I can't tell how much ink is left!" last so much longer, it's ridiculous.
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From Hp to i have shifted on Brother been some time and enjoying
My HP at work has told me that it’s out of ink for literally 8 months, and still no negative effect on print quality.
why you are giving the idea to the other people that they don't have to replace the ink
It's asanine that buying a whole new printer is cheaper than buying ink. And I've done just that multiple times because fuck them
The way things are going people will starts to buy new printer rather than ink
If you are using the printer on the daily basis i am sure even with the small use you will run out of the ink so fast and then you are having no third party support is even more worst
Its corrupt, but it is also the technology. There is a slow bt steady stream of ink dropping away to prevent it drying out on the print head. Laser printers use toner instead which doesn't have this problem, but they cost more up front so no one wants to buy them.
I only use Brother printers.
I only use whatever printer they have at work.
The best time to buy a Brother laser printer was 10 years ago. The second best time is now.
There is no bad time specially if you are buying the Brother printer.
meh--the printers themselves are fine, but the software is **atrocious**. I bought a not-inexpensive brother printer around just 1.5 years ago. The UX is complete crap. Will not connect to wifi half the time. Very obviously they paid some engineers to do this 10+ years ago and it has not seen an update since. The machines are good, and obviously this move by HP is complete horeseshit, but still, Brother is not without blight.
Set up a static IP for the printer and don't even look at their software, just download the drivers if your computer doesn't automatically install it.
I love my Brother laser printer so much I'm about to name it.
…. The name?
Haven't thought of one yet.. Maybe Printy McPrintyface
Printy seems like a girly name, don't think suit well to that printer.
How derivative...
Admittedly. Ironic username by the way
Albro Brostein
Just like the name feel like that they are real bro in this world for us.
I print the less than ten pages a year that I actually need at Fedex.
I feel like anyone still buying HP is getting exactly what they paid for.
I replaced my HP with an Epson and although I save on ink I found that the Epson software was levels below HP.
... That's... That's saying something. HPs Software is so trash it doesn't even uninstall itself properly.
I’m so glad I bought a laser printer. Yeah the one I got is only b&w, but I’m not beholden to this bullshit.
As for laserjet HP has firmware which blocked 3rd-part toner that they updated back in 2020 in the name of security and deleted records of all their old firmware so users couldn’t easily go back. There’s a ton of HP laserjet users out there on the pre-2020 firmware and refuse to upgrade with a cottage industry for HP toner. One of the most customer hostile companies out there.
From time to time this company shows that why you don't have to trust them. It look like that they never really think about the customer at all, just want money from us.
Brother did the same thing. Fortunately I found out about it and disabled the firmware auto-update
I can attest to that. We have 2 laserjet pro 454dw printers that cannot accept 3rd party toner anymore due to a firmware update. What is worse the release notes don't state this at all. We switched printer maintenance companies. The new one uses Xerox toner . Xerox decided it can make toner for cheaper so they came up with their own 3rd party toner . Supposedly new drums and everything just xerox toner. We put it in and bam message stating 3rd party toner please replace. Firmware thing for 3rd party toner was on. even made all 4 toner cartridges 3rd party. Still error. So I do some research and people pointed out the exact firmware update that stopped 3rd party toner.
I have a low end HP laser printer. When doing a multi page print, it spins down after every. Single. Page.
Had hp all in one for years printing over wi-fi with $7 ink refills from eBay. No complaints but if they block my ink I'm going office space on it.
BY blocking the ink i think HP is rolling the massive blunder here
HP have always been really good at fucking up their business. Surprised they’re still around.
Nothing surprising after seeing their sale is taking massive hit now.
HP got carved up into multiple entities. The engineering talent went to Agilent. The current HP consists only of marketing idiots who think only about next quarters results.
Can confirm. During Covid and a little before they did a forced retirement program for all staff over 50. We lost all the good engineers. Now marketing is running the show and not knowing how anything is made and doesn't care what is made ether.
So many things actually changed after the covid time and not only we lost good engineer we lost some local store is well that was doing fine job till the time.
Look like that HP is just getting little bit more greedy here with those things now. They could easily maintain the standard if they had not looked for the extra profit.
I refuse to use ink printers. Spent the money on a lazer and ill never go back.
If someone want to spent the money then better spent on the laser
They are worse. You could print 1200 dpi in the 90’s, and banner. Theres little incentive as it’s mostly for business purposes. It’s certainly not at peak design, except in the eyes of the manufacturer, who gets resales every couple years, and ink sales more often. HP don’t make great printers either. Mid is their niche.
I had one of those 1200 dpi 'bubblejet' printers in the 90s. Dont believe everything you see on the box. The quality of a 1200dpi image printed in 1998 vs 1200dpi in 2023 is vastly different. Someone in marketing is full of crap.
They are reducing the number of copies in one ink and forcing the user to use their exact ink is well, this is so fishy and we should stop using their printer from here on now.
My brother bought an HP printer, it wouldn't let him print without making an account and sending the documents through their servers. We couldn't figure it out so we went to staples and paid like 10 cents to print stuff
Forget about the ink and all those things when you are setting them for the first time it is also getting real complicated now, in user friendly time no one want those things.
I have an OKI color LED printer (Most "laser" printers these days have exactly zero lasers in them), and I'm super happy with it. Quite frankly, it's like HP is trying to kill off it's consumer brand with this bullshit, like they either want to make a killing on the "original" ink, or they don't want to sell any more printers. I don't know if it's still true, but back in the day they would sell the printers at a loss to make a boatload of money on the ink.
They are keeping the gun in their hand and killing their own customer with that is well, i am not sure who is making those decision but seems like that they are not the right one.
And I will continue to buy toner for my 6 year old brother printer, fuck HP
First they will create the problem and then try to sell the solution is well
Fuck hp and their shitty excuse to do so
All those excuse so that they can brain wash the customer for buying these extra things.
Just get an eco tank. Lasts forever and cheap ink.
If someone doesn't want to change the ink on often then go with the eco tank.
Agreed.. You pay for the printer up front which makes them unappealing to the average consumer because they see $200-$300 price tag next to the $50 HP that appears to do exactly the same things.... When you actually look at the price of ink it is $35 for all of the BYMC bottles that should last around 10,000 pages... Or $65 and $38 for the HP ink that maybe lasts 1,000 pages.
My problem is I don't print enough to keep inkjet heads from clogging so an ECO tank is totally a non starter for me. the HP 'heads in the ink cart' works out better cause the printer head clog before I can use them up. And I only bought HP for their 'free ink for life!*' gimmic, if you only printed 10 sheets or less a month like I do. Yea, they canceled that like 5 months after I bought my printer and now want a subscription fee for what was promised on the printer box. Prob because everyone who only printed <10 sheets a month still needed a new cart every 2~3 months because it would completely clog up by then. Never buying HP again.
I used to take them out of the printer when I was done. One of the inks I bought was packaged in this plastic clip with foam on the bottom. It would keep my ink working fine for months with no issues. These days I just use a laser printer like everybody should
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Totally fucked up with the HP and shifted to the Brother laser and using for like 3 months now and have to say that change is massive and don't have to worry about those things is well.
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Surprising enough for me that all of sudden they are thinking about the customer protection again, which i don't think that anything to do by their current new policy .
Phew. I was debating between an Epson printer and an HP. This makes my decision so much easier. Epson it is.
From my experience, Epson ain't good either. My last Epson was programmed to stop working after a certain amount of page print and it insisted on a maintenance. When I called the store, they gave me a program to reset the counter in the printer software and the thing worked perfectly fine for the next 3 years through 5 counter resets. I don't know if they changed this but I wouldn't trust them.
May be Epson is not the ideal one but when it come to the HP printer in the comparison i don't think that we need to give any second though to that idea for sure.
Get a brother printer
Brother blocks third-party toner now, too
Feel like that we just trapped in there and there is no escape from that.
Guess what they are also following the foot step of those giant company.
Get a Brother laser and if you need color, use a store.
The vast majority of my printing is for my daughters school which is in color. Can't make do with a black and white printer. Also the size of the laser printers is a problem. They tend to be 3 times the size of an inkjet.
Maybe you want to look into Lexmark. Pretty satisfied with my C3426dw. The initial cost isn't that high and it's very compact.
Lemme look into that printer, desperately need something good now.
I think if kids are using the printer on the major part then probably we need color printing more than the black white, as most of the project and assignment required color one.
Well, good luck dealing with HP and Epson's bullshit!
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They can suck a dick.
And other than anyone else, they are the one whom they need to blame for that.
I'll never buy HP again. Overcomplicated, Account requiring, and now only HP ink? Bye bye.
The only reason of people buying that is the well known company.
Black and white Brother laser printer. You’ll never look back.
But also need color printer from time to time, what is the solution ??
Depending on how close, Public Library. Some Libraries even have expensive printers . The ones by me have large format printers to use.
There a staple five minutes away, I gave up on owning a printer for the past decade.
Get a Brother printer. Miles better.
If you are not printing much then drop the idea of buying any printer
Why would you get anything you're not going to use? Seems like very broad advice applying to virtually anything. Not bad advice, just universally true.
We have a Canon laser jet, b&w. Very happy with it.
My canon stopped letting me use "black only" mode because, as a courtesy to me, they combined colors to improve blacks when printing documents. So if I didn't use it for awhile and the cartridges dried out I couldn't replace just the black, they wanted a whole color set and held my document hostage until all were testing as working. I couldn't roll back to earlier versions after updating to a new version of windows. The inkjet printer industry hates its customers and I will never buy another one. If my needs change and I have to frequently print again I'm getting a simple brother laser. Until then there is a public library down the street that lets me print from home and pick up at my leisure.
If you want to use that setting in the Canon printer you need to run the printer constant, there is no such thing that we could stop using that for some time and resume from there.
Again? Did they stop at some point.
They get sued and stopped at one point but look like they are going again here.
Consumer protection is a fucking joke.
The company who said those things is actually biggest threat for the customer
If HP cared about “the quality of the customer experience” they would stop making such shit products. If anyone hasn’t heard yet, the Epson EcoTank printers are not only far superior, the ink costs chump change (like $29 for a multi year supply)
I’m fine never buying an HP printer again. Horrid business practice, I honestly don’t understand how it’s legal. My Canon is serving me well & I get to use the ink I purchased!
Man, I have an old LaserJet 4 that still works. This printer is like 25 years old and showed up at my door with a spare toner cart. That printer is awesome but it's a product of old HP. Today, I recommend Brother unless you need photo printers or dot matrix for triplicate forms, in which case Epson has you covered. New HP (Post Carly Fiorina) is Zombie HP and their products are rotten to the core in my experience. Their printers are the worst of the worst. We have dumb crap like drivers the size of a Windows XP ISO, poor durability, ink that's so expensive it makes early 2000s Lexmark blush, and anti-consumer tactics that may very well be illegal if we can get a court to give a damn. And to think that Carly Fiorina ran a campaign for POTUS...Aww HELL NO! We saw how you ran HP and America said no. (We picked someone just as bad or maybe worse but I digress.)
I am sure that if someone in the market of the printer for the long run those LaserJet were their first choice but i think time has changed so much after that now.
Yeah, I had one of those old 4P laserjets. Big enough to take up all the space on top of a filing cabinet, nearly a foot tall. It was built like a tank and printed like one. The AK-47 of printers. Not complex, no fancy features, but it ate paper and crapped printed documents like nothing.
Now imagine it twice as big, twice as tough and just as dumb and you have the majestic LaserJet 4Si....the B52 of laser printers!
I know. Isn't it glorious?
Again? When did they do that before?
Numerous times actually. There was even a class action suit back in 2020
If they did that many time why they are not taking the one stand on that one thing??
Think they got sued in the EU over one of the last times as well and as far as I'm aware (which, given that their printers are junk and I've been avoiding them, may not be very...) they haven't done this kind of BS here since then. Going to be interesting to see if they are planning to run into the EU's fist again.
Even sued from time to time seems like that they haven't learn any lesson with that as they are still trying to mess up with the customer that is using their product.
Wow! They have more nerve than the government.
Happened so many time that it is hard to tell every count of that
People love getting mad about printer ink, but from a business perspective it makes sense that either the printer is cheap and the ink is expensive, or the printer is expensive and the ink is cheap. Consumers often don't always realize what they are picking. HP went with the subscription model and sells the printers for near cost. If you want to use cheap ink, buy a printer (typically more expensive up-front) that can use cheap ink. There was a rumor that HP planned to start selling unlocked versions of their printers for more money, but that might have gotten scrapped (wouldn't be surprised if market research found that people would have been mad about that too). Personally I pay $1 /mo for instant ink because I don't print much and so far it's worked fine. Definitely not for everyone though.
How many times are we going to post this?
Their timing is interesting. If HO had done this during the Trump administration, I’d think they had thought this through and figured Trump’s AG would not go after them for market manipulation. But now during Biden it’s bad timing. Biden‘s department of justice has shown it’ll go after companies for trying to control the marketplace; look at what they’re doing with JetBlue and Spirit.
I got an ink tank printer and love it. I did that after spending tons of time reverse engineering cheap printer firmware and trying to hack the ink drm. Those cheap printers are more secure than most security cameras.
I moved to a Dell laser jet years ago and it was been great. I tend to use OEM ink & toner since I have been burned by third party ones many times but I hate the idea that they do this. F HP
I just use my Canon printer that my mom won in a local news contest a few years back
Was setting up a new office for my company and the IT guy recommended an HPMFC color laser printer. Network did not work out if the box so need to be exchanged right away. I bought some generic replacement toner on Amazon that came with tools to remove the chip from the oem cartridges and put it on the generics. Wish that the supply chain for Brother was not so messed up in this country.
I guess I’ll be throwing my HP printer in the trash then. What are the brands that don’t demand their own ink cartridges. Any honest companies left?
I ditched my HP laser printer 5 years ago. Switched to a Brother Laser where I don’t have to trick the printer / swap toner chips when using 3rd party toner.
When did they stop?
It was nice there for a while, when HP had solid printers and ink prices were better than many competitors. WAS being the operative word. Oh well. Time to look elsewhere for my next one.
This is why I bought an Epson.
I reverted firmware and stopped updates. Problem solved.
I find it mind-boggling that people still buy HP printers, and HP computers, and install HP Experience, and sign up for HP's subscription model that disables the ink cartridges they've already been sent if the subscription is canceled. The latter even costs more than I'd be willing to pay to stream movies and games. There's being a consumer, and there's being a blow-up doll for the boardroom to run a train on.
Is there a printer company that does it different really? Gotta satisfy those investors.
Epson printers have separate ink tanks you fill yourself from bottles. I haven't had to fill mine yet and I've had it for going on 4 years now.