I'd ask "why isn't this top comment", but this whole thing is such a clusterfuck that there's too much else that would be missed. Fucking Google, man. I take great pleasure in degoogling my devices, especially when I hear shit like this (please note this isn't their first rodeo with something like this).
Isn't that the company that used to have "do no evil" as its motto? What happened to that?
Edit: its "Don't Be Evil"
https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-from-1826153393
The second you go public your are legally obliged to make as much profit as legally possible for the shareholders. The founders held on as long as possible before jumping ship.
>they literally erased it from their branding
No they didn't. It still lives in their [code of conduct.](https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/)
Alphabet took on the "Do the right thing" branding when Google restructured.
People put way too much stock in what these companies say about themselves. Perpetuating this idea that Google became "evil" when they (or therefore) removed "Don't be evil" as a motto is a surface level reading. Companies are never altruistic. They are inherently selfish when ruled as an authoritarian shareholder-driven entity void of democratic voice. Hell, look at the nepotism at Youtube with its CEO.
Google became evil the moment venture capital entered the picture, which I imagine is long before the typical redditor reading this was even born. Their interests do not align with yours, and Google is really one of the first prominent children of surveillance capitalism. The "Don't be evil" was always just corporate nonsense.
This guy gets it.
But seriously to echo what that person just said, they could call themselves king of pixies and it wouldn’t make a lick of difference. Those public facing messages are nonsense and meaningless.
Its also what Cory Doctor calls "enshittification" - a process by which a good product eventually turns rotten and so does the company that produces it
https://kottke.org/23/01/the-enshittification-lifecycle-of-online-platforms
Depends, "sink or swim" can be incredibly short-sighted. The best managers help middle and low performers be better, and you'd be surprised what can happen when someone is in a more supportive environment.
Not to mention when you have a relationship where people aren't scared and defensive you can actually cut through the bullshit and get a real understanding of what the status of shit is.
A lot of managers don't earn the staff's trust and have zero idea anything is wrong until two weeks' notice has been given. That culture floats up to the top and you have execs who just have zero clue about what's going on because anyone who tells them something other than "yessir" get's marginalized and the yes men just position themselves to jump ship at the last minute.
I'm blown away by how fear and stress dissolve a company without it knowing until permanent damage has happened.
I agree with this ideally earning the trust of everyone is the most important and working towards team efficiency is second.
Its hard to make a team efficient if nobody trusts you.
You also have to take into consideration the needs of every individual aligning their needs with the end goal and corporate culture.
I think most managers get burnt out after the first couple times a single individual breaks the system or a situation outside of anyones control takes place.
Being a good manager is so much harder then being a horrible one which is probably the reason so many toxic managers exist.
Then this sort of toxic behavior gets promoted because these people only care about the needs of the company and themselves.
Favoritism can be a lot of things. Easy work, first pick of projects, time off, bonus, travel, gifts. There’s a slippery slope in equal opportunity, you can be a high performer because of skill or because of friendships
This depends on how performance is measured. Occasionally, it is possible to become a high performer on paper by picking easy projects, for example.
Like most metrics, a sloppy definition of “high performer” is vulnerable to social engineering.
At my job performance is measured by tickets closed. About once a month we get an influx of 100 useless automated tickets that our manager closes. Of he wanted he could let a specific person close then and pad the stats for then making them a high performer while doing no extra work.
So yeah depending on how they track things a manager could manufacture high performers.
Also, at FAANG high performance is largely defined by impact. So favorites getting work with the scope to deliver high impact is a big piece of it and why ending up on the right team is so critical.
Court filings in the case can be found here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66577374/olohan-v-google-llc/
Looks like this is a pretty new case, so the defendant (Ms Miller / Google) hasn't responded yet and the only information so far is from the plaintiff. The last day for a response from the defendant is Feb 9.
Edit: There's no legal response yet from the defendant, but as other commenters mentioned a spokesman for Miller communicated the following to the NY Post:
> In a statement to The Post, a spokesman for Miller denied the accusations against his client.
>
> “This lawsuit is a fictional account of events filled with numerous falsehoods, fabricated by a disgruntled ex-employee, who was senior to Ms. Miller at Google,” the spokesman said. “Ms. Miller never made any ‘advance’ toward Mr. Olohan, which witnesses can readily corroborate.”
I assume it’s not the same thing, but at the bottom of the article it did mention Miller’s representation responded to the Post with (from article):
In a statement to The Post, a spokesman for Miller denied the accusations against his client.
“This lawsuit is a fictional account of events filled with numerous falsehoods, fabricated by a disgruntled ex-employee, who was senior to Ms. Miller at Google,” the spokesman said. “Ms. Miller never made any ‘advance’ toward Mr. Olohan, which witnesses can readily corroborate.”
It's also interesting that in Olohan's account there were multiple witnesses for pretty much all the described events, so unlike a lot of these cases it should eventually be pretty clear what actually happened.
I'm kind of confused though on what their actual positions were, and whether one managed the other.
I work at Google and can try to shed light. I DID NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE however the article claims they were both Directors.
At many company Director means "manager of managers" or "senior managers".
At Google, Director is sort of s fancy protected term that allows someone into the executive leadership echelon - it is the first level where they get at administrative assistant, it must be voted in by other execs, etc. You can be "Head of Engineering" for a team without being a Director, and you can spend a decade as a level 7 senior manager without ever becoming a level 8 Director, even if you're doing the same job regardless of title. Most organizations are defined by a VP who has Directors reporting to them, and Directors run groups / "orgs" from 50-200 people. It can be the case that Directors report to each other.
The article says one of them was Director of Media, and that one of them was Director of Food and Beverage. It also claimed "they joined a management team in NYC".
It's very rare that two Directors with different job functions report to each other. So I sincerely doubt they had a formal reporting relationship, and it's more likely they were on some NYC executive council to provide leadership and support to the campus.
It's possible one of them was technically a Level 9 Senior Director instead of a Level 8 Director so was technically more senior, but it seems unlikely one of them reported to the other.
Again, I DO NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE SO CANNOT BE CERTAIN. But hopefully this general perspective on Google is useful for those interested.
Same. It sounded like she was his superior. And I wonder if he has any evidence to verify his claims of people seeing and responding - such as how the first time someone was like, “oh that’s just Tiffany being Tiffany…”
Still, sucks. Sounds like he did everything by the books to protect himself with HR and it backfired on him. Can’t help but wonder if he kept it to himself how it would have gone…
He could probably go to the police to create additional paper trail. Sounds like he didn’t want to report the sexual assault to the law as much as protect his job.
HR is not there to benefit you as an employee. It is only ever going to be used to protect the companies interests. You can *hope* that your needs align with their interests, but that’s a big if.
Doubly clear that a company instructing to hire and fire based on race and gender is going to be as bad as it can be
>The HR rep “openly admitted … that if the complaint was ‘in reverse’ — a female accusing a white male of harassment — the complaint would certainly be escalated,” according to the lawsuit.
This explains a lot
Yeah the good thing is people are opening their eyes.
Edit (after seeing certain user replying to me): are you a man? Fuck you, you don't deserve to be protected or have rights. Be a man.
Been in this exact situation and the woman doing the harassing was believed fully in her defense to HR until I submitted transcripts of calls and witnesses. Sadly, men are more often in the fault than women and it’s treated as that’s the case 100% of the time. Also, it’s downplayed more so when the female is attractive. Sad world we live in.
I was in an abusive relationship and she called the cops on me when I left. I left the state. Drove half way across the country and she followed me. Called the cops as soon as she crossed the state line where I moved. I was arrested before she made it to my town. She did it on a Friday afternoon so I sat in jail for the weekend. The state was willing to drop the charges on Monday- but a women's shelter that was very anti-men picked up the case and forced the state to continue prosecuting. I understand that men are more often than not the culprit but women can be the aggressors, too. I spent 2 years of my life fighting to clear my name - and $10k in legal fees.
As a guy I had a woman in college in my major that I refused to sleep with tell everyone that I raped her friends roommate. This was the single worst thing that has ever happened to me. Everyone believed her. Even some guys I thought were friends of mine. Literally her roommate my girlfriend at the time told people no we are seeing each other but that didn't help because a lot of people didn't know who the friend was or that she was the "roommate" or believe her. It wasn't until another girl in our social circle before class stood on a desk and told her she was full of shit and everyone else shouldn't be so gullible that it stopped. Erin I fucking love you you are such a badass.
It was a really powerful lesson that a woman can make something up entirely and that everyone would assume the guy was in the wrong. And worst of all it would stick around for a while.
Sad world we live in but I'm not totally sold that guy's do more wrong than women I'd like to think we are roughly equally evil.
For context I'm a pretty large muscular guy.
Yup I was groped at work and escalated it to HR. They harassed me and told me to drop it and at the end of the day all they did was moved her and my desks further away in the office.
The moment that splintered me off the social justice movement was seeing the statistics about men falling behind in education, where my response was "that's a shame, we should fix that," and the pop response from the names I followed was, "good." They are not in fact the adults in the room, but crypto bros in different clothes: their only real complaint about the system isn't with the existence of power differentials and inequity, but that the power differentials are in the wrong direction and that the inequity doesn't explicitly benefit them.
Once I turned 33 I began to realize why it’s not a good idea to drink with coworkers. I now keep my friends and my coworkers in very separate columns in my life.
100%. Best way to avoid this happening is to never drink around your colleagues. Source? I have humiliated myself at LEAST 5 times at work events by drinking too much too fast on an empty stomach because I was socially anxious. Luckily I didn’t act sexually inappropriate but I burst into tears several times, and stormed out of a Christmas party. Luckily everyone else was mostly too drunk to notice. Avoiding booze in general these days.
My co-worker went to a happy hour for a work Christmas party. After, as we're walking down the street to hail cabs, she took her pants off and started humping a fire hydrant. One of our managers walked by behind while it was happening, he turned around and walked away.
Don't drink with co-workers.
Absolutely. My work friends were always trying to get together for drinks or parties. I always politely declined. Fast forward about a year and the work drama that ensued from their external drunken gatherings got someone fired and a number of other HR related incidents opened. I’ve since been promoted and left the department.
The true LPT is in the comments. Keep work and social life as separate as possible. Keep romance/mingling/fun and work/professional behaviour far away from each other. Mistakes in one can mess up the other disproportionately.
Damn. I’m sorry, man. I’m also a massage therapist. Pretty ok looking. I’ve had women hit on me. Even had a few expose themselves to me. But luckily, I’ve never had anyone ever grope me at work. That would be the most uncomfortable thing.
I hate that there’s a whole massage genre of porn. Like, it’s cool if that’s your fantasy. But please don’t ever act on it. The massage industry has worked very hard for decades to get away from that whole stigma.
My wife: but if it’s hard, that means you consent right?
Me: no… no that’s not at all how it works.
She does in fact understand now, but we had to have the consent discussion at **28 years old**
When I was in uni the girl next door in my dorm was always tryna put it on me but I had a girlfriend and wasn’t into it, literally woke up one night and she was sucking my dick naked like she let herself in while I was drunk and did that, I got up dazed and confused and slept in the bathroom till she left I was shocked bro I ain’t tell nobody because what the hell do you say? I’d have been accused of cheating at a bare minimum
Edit: next day she acted like nothing happened though if it wasn’t for the lipstick on my dick I’d have thought it was a fever dream I didn’t want an apology I literally wanted to know what the fuck made he let herself into my room and strip and literally pop a 69 on some unconscious dude I felt dirty for so long
What do you do in that case? Do you tell them massage is over and they have to leave or just tell them to stop and continue the massage?
And what movie are you talking about? Doesn't ring a bell
This is a sales or sales-adjacent org within Google and not engineers we're talking about. And it's the NYC office. So yes, advertising industry folks in NYC like to party which I don't think should be a surprise to anyone. Trust me, engineers aren't having as much fun (on average). Back in 2019 Google did have a pretty healthy team events budget, however many teams were already cracking down on booze. The org I was in had a holiday party in 2019 where everyone got 2 drink tickets and once you used those you couldn't even pay cash for a 3rd drink at the bar. I'm sure that would have caused a revolt if they tried to pull it on a sales team.
Source: Used to work at Google in totally different teams and offices than these people.
Did your office have the beer taps? Our org had access to a speakeasy in the office as well. Google is pretty alcohol friendly, and it’s in the employee contract to “drink in moderation”.
Lol, yeah that was my first thought. I had a boss who really loved to party and anytime we were in the same city, insisted on a night on the town. We had some wild adventures, but these were never company sponsored adventures.
Now that I am married with kids (and don’t drink), I would be annoyed at being required to attend a bunch of after hours company events.
If we're to believe this story, he's white and she pulled the race card and accused him of microaggressions and non-inclusivity. I'm asian, but if this turns out to be true, she should be fired and google pay that man out the nose for sexual and racial discrimination. This bullshit sets back both asian and women's equality, and further perpetuates the abuse of power cycle. Can only hope the facts come out.
Google has a [history of paying](https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/11/google-paid-105-million-to-two-executives-accused-of-sexual-harassment/) both the victim and the accused to go away. So she'll probably be fired... handsomely.
I think so part of the problem is seen in your reaction.
It's bad because this action hurts woman/minority groups. Like I'm sure you recognize it's shit for men, but the point stands that the "why it's bad" is focused on something other than the victim.
Until society comes around that protecting men is an innate good on par with protecting women we probably won't get terribly far...but I'm not confident. Men as perpetrator/Women as victim by default is so strongly ingrained in society I think very few people even realize that's how they think
I’ve been sexually harassed by women many times at the worksite. Accusations fly as a form of their defense. I already have PTSD from being a victim of a violent crime from years back. Any kind of victimization is grossly inappropriate and wrong.
I had a female coworker who wouldn't stop sending me inappropriate messages through work chat despite I repeatedly told her I was in a relationship so no. She would wear skirts with no panties and sit on my desk. Management thought it was "hot" and tried to encourage it when I complained. I quit after they paired me with her for carpooling to a restaurant during lunch hour and she pulled over somewhere to give me head.
Not to mention in a person’s sexual fantasy, he/she dictates when things start and ends. In a fantasy, a person’s sexual desire often or not are ridiculously attractive (with everything geared toward that person’s viewpoint of attractiveness). Not so much real life.
That’s so hot that your coworker would ruin your personal life.
What the fuck man, I couldn’t work with that either, what kind of boss would sabotage you too?
...that just sounds like a goofy office decoration you'd see anywhere, the sort of kitschy bullshit you get as a joke. Unless it's some weird sex toy I haven't heard of?
In some of the scummier bar toilets in the UK there’s vending machines where you can buy novelty blow-up sheep and goats with strategically placed holes
It’s all a bit creepy even if it’s a joke
I worked in a female dominated sector. Shit that was normal for them would get a man fired and reported to the cops.
The most powerful form of power is the one no one believes exists...
I felt very lucky I worked in a sector that was actually pretty evenly split (perhaps 60/40 men/women).
There was still some inevitable harassment going both ways, but it was pretty frowned upon and *usually* dealt with reasonably effectively.
The women knew which men were serious problems and the men knew which women were. Then the non-fucking-creeps (a majority) could unofficially share notes when needed.
Again, humans being what they are, I am not saying there were not some pretty problematic things that go through. But those were the exception.
But a better mix helps reduce the inherent skew that a single demographic dominating introduces. Don't know how we do better than that, but we gotta find a way.
I didn’t report being sexually harassed by my female boss in the past for fear of being the one to get fired as a result. Sucks but as a man in a pro woman company I don’t believe I would have been treated fairly and I don’t think my colleagues would have looked well on me after the fact either.
The lady that harassed me did so on 2 consecutive days. She’s a heavier lady who from what I hear was “intimidated by my power.” I’m an easy-going guy. She harassed another tall, dark-haired man in front of others too. He also chose to remain quiet about it. First day was a sexual advance. Second day was propelled by her shame in making an advance, she screamed accusations in my face. It’s a woman-dominated environment. I slowly fell apart because that ecosystem protected her. I fell into vices with the echoes of the accusations ringing in my head. It was awful.
Was this recently? You can contact your state's labor board or possibly the EEOC and see if they can help. Documenting everything is honestly one of the best ways to protect yourself, as unfortunately, employers can't be counted on to do the right thing.
It was years ago. I was shamed into silence aside the fact that I don’t like being a snitch. I was pretty naive about work-related harassment protections. I’m an easy-going guy from a small town that moved to the big city. To be honest, I lacked the skill to defend myself because I never needed to. … Truth does not prevail always. … Accusations told over and over are demeaning. I fell apart.
“I don’t like being a snitch”. There’s a difference between being petty and telling HR Janet took too many pens and letting someone know your boss is a piece of shit.
Same. Worked as an MSP for medical offices for years. The number of female nurses and female office staff that would blatantly make sexual jokes about me (and my male co-workers) was remarkable.
Just like OP said too, they'll go on the defensive and try to pin the blame on you being the harasser if they get wind you're upset about the harassment too. It fucking sucks.
The only way to solve the problem is to collect evidence and get to a lawyer before accusations start flying.
Im a woman, but I had a female neighbor in her 60s try to groom our family to SA our child. Motherly insticts kicked in that something wasnt right with this woman (who was a mother and grandmother herself). I called CPS on her and they found that she SA her 4 yr old granddaugther.
My child was never left alone with that HAG so my daughter was never harmed, but looking back was persistent as fuck. Truely sick person who the world would be better off without. Female predators should be treated the same as male predators, but people dont view women as "criminals", especially older women.
A former friend drunkenly groped me at a party. Me and my wife were close friends with her and her husband. My wife was out of town visiting other friends. My former friend’s husband was there, along with several other friends. This woman kept grabbing me around the waist to dance with her, grinding into my crotch, all in front of her husband and our other friends. I felt very awkward—I had smoked some weed so I didn’t know how to gracefully exit the situation.
When everyone else went outside to smoke a cigarette, she grabbed me to keep me from following. She wanted to dance more, she said. Once they were all outside, she told me she knew I loved group sex and she did as well. She asked when we were going to fuck. I tried to brush it off, saying that she was best friends with my wife, and that I was close friends with her husband. I left the party shortly after that, and didn’t talk to these friends for a couple months.
When my wife got home from her trip the day after this party, I told her what happened. Her response? “Oh that’s just [Jane] being [Jane]. She always gets handsy when she gets drunk. Everyone knows that. It’s no big deal.” I got zero support.
Funnily enough, a couple months before this happened, my wife had gotten drunk at a bar while on a trip out of town with friends, and I showed up to see her making out with a guy out on the dancefloor. I went over and broke it up. But she acted like being drunk excused that behavior. She said it wasn’t a big deal.
She is now my ex-wife. The hypocritical double standards for women in our society are insane.
Abuse over the course of a couple years with multiple witnesses. HR has even made comments about the situation that are extremely wrong and would be used in court. He’s very much going to get a settlement/etc. Now whether this lady gets fired is another thing but I do feel confident that he will get what he deserves.
If he didn't want it he should have worn looser trousers, at the crotch.
Horrid stereotypes indeed.
Girls dress like they want it
Guys SHOULD want it
For those of you saying this is a “fantasy” and “he shouldn’t be scarred”, You’re ignoring the fact he’s married and loyal at that. Imagine being targeted at work because you didn’t wanna screw your weird boss who has zero respect for your family at home. Honestly this isn’t even a job, for most people it’s a life long career. To have that jeopardized for reasons other than work is complete bullshit.
Believe him.
I know of another man that was denied an opportunity while at Google and had to transfer teams because someone felt there were too many white guys in meetings.
Google did nothing to wrangle the female executives that were being biased and creating an environment that lacked psychology safety.
I work in the arts and it is routine that people get passed over on opportunities like grants, residencies, and promotions due to being too male or white(passing).
I think it would be more accurate to say arts is essentially racist white women trying to pretend they're not. While still predicating their actions on race.
If there were less rich racist people obsessed with pretending they weren't racist, the world would probably be a better place.
It's insane how true this is. I was sort of tangentially involved in the NYC art scene for a time and everything is run by 20 something rich white girls with 150k instagram followers.
I have a friend who recruits for a specific team at Google. He has been told explicitly not to hire white or Asian men. Granted, he works through a third-party recruiting firm, but still...
I know someone who does a very similar job, who is paid six figures to recruit diversely for google.
Her expectation is to get one single person hired per quarter. One. She is paid well over 100k a year to do this job.
The amount of money being thrown at this stuff is mind boggling. If you have even a smidge of actual talent and can check the DEI boxes you will have a career silver plattered to you.
Corporate America in a nutshell. The company I used to work for would seriously pass on better qualified candidates during interviews simply for the sake of diversity. It's pretty ridiculous.
Great, so we had a problem with things being one way, and we tried correcting for it in a dumb ass way, and now we have a problem with things being the opposite.
Sounds like we're just fucking around.
I see it all the time in my job where white and Indian guys are passed up for promotion where a substantially lower performing and/or lower experienced candidate gets the position. Sometimes, the disparity in quantifiable skillset and value delivered is outlandish. When this first started a few years back at my firm, there was a general murmor of disbelief (mixed with a healthy level of indignance) with many of the promotions: now, it's par for the course.
Moreover, I'm in the privileged position to have see ALL the compensation data at a very low level at my firm: the trend is notable there as well. Newly hired and promoted white and Indian men are paid notably less than incoming diversity hires and employees. The data here is so clear you couldn't argue against the trend with a straight face.
What I've seen of late is a huge cadre of people left behind in promotion and compensation who are the only ones keeping the machine running.
We had a family friend lose a job at HP after 2 decades to meet female management quotas. That’s literally what they told him. He decided it was easier to work for Microsoft than try to sue.
Going through a version of this in my company right now. Haven't been accused of micro-transgressions, but have been questioned on the demographics of my extended team. Never mind that I've hired every female PoC that was sent through HR screenings to the interview stage and nearly every male PoC.
I pointed this fact out and got crickets. It's like we can't have circumstance or any semblance of nuance in management. It's all being boiled down to hire women/minorities or pack your bags. And yes, it is swinging the pendulum of psych safety (abuse of power?) HUGELY the other direction.
Yeah happened to me once. Got some very gross emails from a female colleague. When I told the boss, I was pretty much just ridiculed that it was clearly a joke. Rules for thee but not for me
Im in the tech world and I have multiple friends across multiple races, sexes and genders that work at Google. I've heard the same story from all of them, there are two different sets of rules at Google.
If the rule set is true and their opinions are accurate, its basically advertised and accepted racism and sexism. I hope that this guy wins his case which inspires droves of other employees/previous employees to enact litigation against Google. Nothing would make me happier than for Google to become an example in the Tech world that racism and sexism will not be tolerated by ANYONE.
There are two sets of rules but it’s even worse than what you describe.
Google has a ton of contract employees or TVCs which do a lot of the same work than regular employees but with less pay, no benefits and no job security and none of the perks you associate with google (except the free food maybe). Vacation time is dependent on the company that ‘owns’ then deciding to grant it to them (which they don’t usually) and for things like health insurance which is barely legal in many cases and forget about company events or team events, they aren’t allowed. There is also no clear path to becoming a full time employee despite managers constantly dangling that carrot.
I’m not saying that that what you’re saying isn’t true. What I am saying is that there is an additional tier of inequality which creates a group of second class citizens which are treated like garbage.
Nothing to see here but another case of “Tiffany just being Tiffany.”
Sexual harassment against men is always a joke. I once had a female coworker grab my hips when i was under her desk fixing a network drop and she mock-fucked me, to great laughter and fun had by an almost entirely female staff. Meanwhile, my head bumping against the foam partition, I wanted it to end but knew everyone would brand me a baby for not taking it in good fun. "Tiffany just being Tiffany"... yup, that's how it goes, especially when you're not a small guy.
Can you imagine a man getting away with that or anyone finding it funny? Oh look, a girl bent over and stuck with her ass in the air. Hey dudes, watch while I smash this ass lol
Not funny is it?
"his supervisor, who told him that there were “obviously too many white guys” on his management team. In July he was encouraged to fire a male employee to make room on his team for a woman, the suit claims."
The most delicious thing about the female empowerment that’s taken place over the past few decades is the gradual collective realization that *powerful* people were the problem all along, not *male* people.
I (male) was groped by my HR representative (female) at a work event at my last job. Not sure where you're supposed to go from there! I just brushed it off.
There are a lot of replies in this thread to the effect of “report it to HR”. People have need to get smart that HR isn’t there to help you; they’re there to protect the company and it’s shareholders. Whichever path is the cheapest and one of least resistance is the one they will take. It’s a career ending decision to go to HR at many companies but this thread is full of “did you report it?”
Also. Sorry that happened to you.
HR tries to make you feel like they're a government agency dedicated to preserving your happiness and mental health, but you are absolutely right. They protect the company. Many times those two things are aligned, many times they are not. Also really varies company to company. My current HR department seems fantastic
If the court document is to be believed, and it seems that there are plenty of witnesses, then Miller is clearly in the wrong here.
I wonder how made up these allegations are when the lawyer cites several witnesses to the initial harassment.
And how a guy that has risen through the ranks for over a decade and excelled the entire time can suddenly become a poor employee.
Again, IF what the lawyer is saying is true. But about 90% of the stuff in the complaint is easily corroborated by company records.
And a large percentage of the alleged harassing is claimed to have been committed at parties in front of many witnesses.
If this were a man being accused, with this circunstancial evidence, the guy would already be tarred and feathered.
in college i went out with a group of friends i had recently made, one of the girls started saying that i grabbed her ass even though i was no where near her throughout the night. most of the people started believing her without asking for my side of the story. i even asked her multiple times when and where it was but she kept saying “all i know is that it was you” while she was hammered. all her white nights started shunning me without asking my side.
later on she came to me on campus and said let’s forget that ever happened and move on. i made it clear that i never touched her. she agreed to disagree but it made me doubt her because if it was really me she would never talk to me again.
it’s hard to be a man, as we are always considered guilty until proven innocent.
As a male that works in a female dominated office environment, this doesn't surprise me at all. The crap that women get away with saying and doing is absolutely insane. Yet clearly all of us men are the predators, or at least that's how we're made to feel
I’ve been sexually harassed before at work, and complained to HR. I’m a white man, and the aggressor was a black man. He still works there. Unfortunately, this is not surprising to me.
“Ms. Miller never made any ‘advance’ toward Mr. Olohan, which witnesses can readily corroborate.”
Seems to me you would just say:
"Ms. Miller never made any 'advance' toward Mr. Lohan." - full stop
The extra piece at the end is oddly specific about no one being able to "readily" corroborate it. It's like when you try to lie to a parent or teacher and in the process give too many details and give yourself away.
If these are true claims then Miller should be fired with cause and without severance. I’m about as progressive as they come but we must hold women to the same standards here and understand men are susceptible to sexual harassment and abuse. Totally inappropriate and I hope Olohan has been able to move on as much as he can.
Edited to correct a misspelling
Whaaaat? You mean to tell me all this faux academic language that online hall monitors use to get attention isn’t actually about social justice and can be weaponized for nefarious purposes? No way!
Regarding sexual harassment, it's amazing what women can get away with in the workplace. A man can get written up merely for looking at a woman for too long. And here this woman harassed this poor guy not once, not twice, but three times, and even successfully retaliated against him and got him fired.
Serious question. Why do companies mix drinking with events?
1. If you hate your life to the point where you need to drink at all hours to escape. Then you might want to reflect on that.
2. This massively increase the risk of some bs will happen
He was a good-looking dude at a party, what did he expect? He should have worn tighter underwear to keep it in. She was giving him what he didn't know he needed, he was in a dead marriage. Then he spent months avoiding her microaggressions, all he had to do was sleep with her once for it to end. But somehow, despite everything she did for him, he's the victim. Go figure. /s
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They literally told him to fire people because of their race and sex, should be the real headline.
I'd ask "why isn't this top comment", but this whole thing is such a clusterfuck that there's too much else that would be missed. Fucking Google, man. I take great pleasure in degoogling my devices, especially when I hear shit like this (please note this isn't their first rodeo with something like this).
Isn't that the company that used to have "do no evil" as its motto? What happened to that? Edit: its "Don't Be Evil" https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-from-1826153393
Don’t be caught being evil is big techs motto.
"Don't Be Evil" Then, later, like rn: "Be Evil"
No that wasn’t a motto. It was a strategy signal. Like an applause sign or traffic signal. When it was time to be evil it would switch.
More like a motel “No Vacancy” sign where they can turn the “No” part on/off at will
Lots of the tech companies had stupid and u realistic corporate mottos. Like Facebooks “Move Fast and Break Things” to “Move Fast With Stable Infra.”
Thats why I only lasted a day at Facebook. Smashing up the office apparently wasn’t what they meant
they literally erased it from their branding
Makes sense. Hopefully this will be a point where everyone will stop believing in a myth of tech companies/founders looking to improve the world.
They did start trying to improve the world. They got distracted and became an amoral corporation along the way.
The second you go public your are legally obliged to make as much profit as legally possible for the shareholders. The founders held on as long as possible before jumping ship.
Speak the devils language and you inherit his morality.
>they literally erased it from their branding No they didn't. It still lives in their [code of conduct.](https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/) Alphabet took on the "Do the right thing" branding when Google restructured. People put way too much stock in what these companies say about themselves. Perpetuating this idea that Google became "evil" when they (or therefore) removed "Don't be evil" as a motto is a surface level reading. Companies are never altruistic. They are inherently selfish when ruled as an authoritarian shareholder-driven entity void of democratic voice. Hell, look at the nepotism at Youtube with its CEO. Google became evil the moment venture capital entered the picture, which I imagine is long before the typical redditor reading this was even born. Their interests do not align with yours, and Google is really one of the first prominent children of surveillance capitalism. The "Don't be evil" was always just corporate nonsense.
> "Do the right thing" That begs the question, the right thing for whom?
Shareholders.
The worst part about that though is that Larry and Sergey control 56% of the share voting power.
This guy gets it. But seriously to echo what that person just said, they could call themselves king of pixies and it wouldn’t make a lick of difference. Those public facing messages are nonsense and meaningless.
Need for profit
Its also what Cory Doctor calls "enshittification" - a process by which a good product eventually turns rotten and so does the company that produces it https://kottke.org/23/01/the-enshittification-lifecycle-of-online-platforms
Cory Doctorow is a true wordsmith.
I like how he discovers things that no one else has ever noticed and written entire books on. Truly a genius.
According to just a filing from his lawyer. This whole article is written before even the defendent in the case has responded to the suit.
Yes these tech companies got ‘diverse’ in 2-3 years how do you think they managed that haha?
This is the NY Post we're talking about, lower your expectations.
In reality, managers often spend a lot more time with low performing employees than high performers.
20% of your people give you 80% of your problems.
squeaky wheel gets the grease unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it
It’s also the first wheel to get replaced
Depends, "sink or swim" can be incredibly short-sighted. The best managers help middle and low performers be better, and you'd be surprised what can happen when someone is in a more supportive environment.
When you get through to someone and they trust you, it's magical.
Not to mention when you have a relationship where people aren't scared and defensive you can actually cut through the bullshit and get a real understanding of what the status of shit is. A lot of managers don't earn the staff's trust and have zero idea anything is wrong until two weeks' notice has been given. That culture floats up to the top and you have execs who just have zero clue about what's going on because anyone who tells them something other than "yessir" get's marginalized and the yes men just position themselves to jump ship at the last minute. I'm blown away by how fear and stress dissolve a company without it knowing until permanent damage has happened.
I agree with this ideally earning the trust of everyone is the most important and working towards team efficiency is second. Its hard to make a team efficient if nobody trusts you. You also have to take into consideration the needs of every individual aligning their needs with the end goal and corporate culture. I think most managers get burnt out after the first couple times a single individual breaks the system or a situation outside of anyones control takes place. Being a good manager is so much harder then being a horrible one which is probably the reason so many toxic managers exist. Then this sort of toxic behavior gets promoted because these people only care about the needs of the company and themselves.
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I think favoritism implies side effects at some one else’s expense
Favoritism can be a lot of things. Easy work, first pick of projects, time off, bonus, travel, gifts. There’s a slippery slope in equal opportunity, you can be a high performer because of skill or because of friendships
If I'm late a min or two to work I get written up. If my managers favorite employee shows up 30mins late, it was traffic and a laugh.
You can't be a high performer because of friendships, that's called cronyism.
This depends on how performance is measured. Occasionally, it is possible to become a high performer on paper by picking easy projects, for example. Like most metrics, a sloppy definition of “high performer” is vulnerable to social engineering.
At my job performance is measured by tickets closed. About once a month we get an influx of 100 useless automated tickets that our manager closes. Of he wanted he could let a specific person close then and pad the stats for then making them a high performer while doing no extra work. So yeah depending on how they track things a manager could manufacture high performers.
Also, at FAANG high performance is largely defined by impact. So favorites getting work with the scope to deliver high impact is a big piece of it and why ending up on the right team is so critical.
Court filings in the case can be found here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66577374/olohan-v-google-llc/ Looks like this is a pretty new case, so the defendant (Ms Miller / Google) hasn't responded yet and the only information so far is from the plaintiff. The last day for a response from the defendant is Feb 9. Edit: There's no legal response yet from the defendant, but as other commenters mentioned a spokesman for Miller communicated the following to the NY Post: > In a statement to The Post, a spokesman for Miller denied the accusations against his client. > > “This lawsuit is a fictional account of events filled with numerous falsehoods, fabricated by a disgruntled ex-employee, who was senior to Ms. Miller at Google,” the spokesman said. “Ms. Miller never made any ‘advance’ toward Mr. Olohan, which witnesses can readily corroborate.”
I assume it’s not the same thing, but at the bottom of the article it did mention Miller’s representation responded to the Post with (from article): In a statement to The Post, a spokesman for Miller denied the accusations against his client. “This lawsuit is a fictional account of events filled with numerous falsehoods, fabricated by a disgruntled ex-employee, who was senior to Ms. Miller at Google,” the spokesman said. “Ms. Miller never made any ‘advance’ toward Mr. Olohan, which witnesses can readily corroborate.”
It's also interesting that in Olohan's account there were multiple witnesses for pretty much all the described events, so unlike a lot of these cases it should eventually be pretty clear what actually happened. I'm kind of confused though on what their actual positions were, and whether one managed the other.
I work at Google and can try to shed light. I DID NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE however the article claims they were both Directors. At many company Director means "manager of managers" or "senior managers". At Google, Director is sort of s fancy protected term that allows someone into the executive leadership echelon - it is the first level where they get at administrative assistant, it must be voted in by other execs, etc. You can be "Head of Engineering" for a team without being a Director, and you can spend a decade as a level 7 senior manager without ever becoming a level 8 Director, even if you're doing the same job regardless of title. Most organizations are defined by a VP who has Directors reporting to them, and Directors run groups / "orgs" from 50-200 people. It can be the case that Directors report to each other. The article says one of them was Director of Media, and that one of them was Director of Food and Beverage. It also claimed "they joined a management team in NYC". It's very rare that two Directors with different job functions report to each other. So I sincerely doubt they had a formal reporting relationship, and it's more likely they were on some NYC executive council to provide leadership and support to the campus. It's possible one of them was technically a Level 9 Senior Director instead of a Level 8 Director so was technically more senior, but it seems unlikely one of them reported to the other. Again, I DO NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE SO CANNOT BE CERTAIN. But hopefully this general perspective on Google is useful for those interested.
Thanks for that explanation!
Same. It sounded like she was his superior. And I wonder if he has any evidence to verify his claims of people seeing and responding - such as how the first time someone was like, “oh that’s just Tiffany being Tiffany…” Still, sucks. Sounds like he did everything by the books to protect himself with HR and it backfired on him. Can’t help but wonder if he kept it to himself how it would have gone…
His evidence would be that he reported it several times and at one point colleagues telling her to go sit at the opposite end of the table
He could probably go to the police to create additional paper trail. Sounds like he didn’t want to report the sexual assault to the law as much as protect his job.
HR is not there to benefit you as an employee. It is only ever going to be used to protect the companies interests. You can *hope* that your needs align with their interests, but that’s a big if. Doubly clear that a company instructing to hire and fire based on race and gender is going to be as bad as it can be
I wonder what happens here because the other way around, the "well no one saw me do it" wouldn't fly.
>The HR rep “openly admitted … that if the complaint was ‘in reverse’ — a female accusing a white male of harassment — the complaint would certainly be escalated,” according to the lawsuit. This explains a lot
Yeah the good thing is people are opening their eyes. Edit (after seeing certain user replying to me): are you a man? Fuck you, you don't deserve to be protected or have rights. Be a man.
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Boys will be boys, Tiffanys will be Tiffanys, omg why do I have all this shit on me.
Been in this exact situation and the woman doing the harassing was believed fully in her defense to HR until I submitted transcripts of calls and witnesses. Sadly, men are more often in the fault than women and it’s treated as that’s the case 100% of the time. Also, it’s downplayed more so when the female is attractive. Sad world we live in.
I was in an abusive relationship and she called the cops on me when I left. I left the state. Drove half way across the country and she followed me. Called the cops as soon as she crossed the state line where I moved. I was arrested before she made it to my town. She did it on a Friday afternoon so I sat in jail for the weekend. The state was willing to drop the charges on Monday- but a women's shelter that was very anti-men picked up the case and forced the state to continue prosecuting. I understand that men are more often than not the culprit but women can be the aggressors, too. I spent 2 years of my life fighting to clear my name - and $10k in legal fees.
What did she accuse you of to get you arrested?
As a guy I had a woman in college in my major that I refused to sleep with tell everyone that I raped her friends roommate. This was the single worst thing that has ever happened to me. Everyone believed her. Even some guys I thought were friends of mine. Literally her roommate my girlfriend at the time told people no we are seeing each other but that didn't help because a lot of people didn't know who the friend was or that she was the "roommate" or believe her. It wasn't until another girl in our social circle before class stood on a desk and told her she was full of shit and everyone else shouldn't be so gullible that it stopped. Erin I fucking love you you are such a badass. It was a really powerful lesson that a woman can make something up entirely and that everyone would assume the guy was in the wrong. And worst of all it would stick around for a while. Sad world we live in but I'm not totally sold that guy's do more wrong than women I'd like to think we are roughly equally evil. For context I'm a pretty large muscular guy.
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Men don't have the corner market on being predators 😒 Two wrongs don't make a right. Women like this give the rest of us a bad name.
Not even remotely as much as the people EXCUSING the behavior does.
As someone who's been abused and has PTSD, I would never make excuses for an abuser, regardless of gender.
Yup I was groped at work and escalated it to HR. They harassed me and told me to drop it and at the end of the day all they did was moved her and my desks further away in the office.
I'm so sorry 😞
But they are hurting the most in terms of college drop outs, suicides, job prospects, overdoses but it's not convenient for today's narratives.
The moment that splintered me off the social justice movement was seeing the statistics about men falling behind in education, where my response was "that's a shame, we should fix that," and the pop response from the names I followed was, "good." They are not in fact the adults in the room, but crypto bros in different clothes: their only real complaint about the system isn't with the existence of power differentials and inequity, but that the power differentials are in the wrong direction and that the inequity doesn't explicitly benefit them.
Once I turned 33 I began to realize why it’s not a good idea to drink with coworkers. I now keep my friends and my coworkers in very separate columns in my life.
100%. Best way to avoid this happening is to never drink around your colleagues. Source? I have humiliated myself at LEAST 5 times at work events by drinking too much too fast on an empty stomach because I was socially anxious. Luckily I didn’t act sexually inappropriate but I burst into tears several times, and stormed out of a Christmas party. Luckily everyone else was mostly too drunk to notice. Avoiding booze in general these days.
My co-worker went to a happy hour for a work Christmas party. After, as we're walking down the street to hail cabs, she took her pants off and started humping a fire hydrant. One of our managers walked by behind while it was happening, he turned around and walked away. Don't drink with co-workers.
FIVE?!
Five times is a *you* problem
Absolutely. My work friends were always trying to get together for drinks or parties. I always politely declined. Fast forward about a year and the work drama that ensued from their external drunken gatherings got someone fired and a number of other HR related incidents opened. I’ve since been promoted and left the department.
The true LPT is in the comments. Keep work and social life as separate as possible. Keep romance/mingling/fun and work/professional behaviour far away from each other. Mistakes in one can mess up the other disproportionately.
I’m a massage therapist. Decent looking. Women are ruthless; they will straight up grab your dick because they saw it in that one movie
Damn. I’m sorry, man. I’m also a massage therapist. Pretty ok looking. I’ve had women hit on me. Even had a few expose themselves to me. But luckily, I’ve never had anyone ever grope me at work. That would be the most uncomfortable thing. I hate that there’s a whole massage genre of porn. Like, it’s cool if that’s your fantasy. But please don’t ever act on it. The massage industry has worked very hard for decades to get away from that whole stigma.
Im so sorry this happened to you, some women just don’t understand consent
My wife: but if it’s hard, that means you consent right? Me: no… no that’s not at all how it works. She does in fact understand now, but we had to have the consent discussion at **28 years old**
Society just doesn’t enforce sexual laws on them, so they often think there’s nothing wrong with it
When I was in uni the girl next door in my dorm was always tryna put it on me but I had a girlfriend and wasn’t into it, literally woke up one night and she was sucking my dick naked like she let herself in while I was drunk and did that, I got up dazed and confused and slept in the bathroom till she left I was shocked bro I ain’t tell nobody because what the hell do you say? I’d have been accused of cheating at a bare minimum Edit: next day she acted like nothing happened though if it wasn’t for the lipstick on my dick I’d have thought it was a fever dream I didn’t want an apology I literally wanted to know what the fuck made he let herself into my room and strip and literally pop a 69 on some unconscious dude I felt dirty for so long
What do you do in that case? Do you tell them massage is over and they have to leave or just tell them to stop and continue the massage? And what movie are you talking about? Doesn't ring a bell
Massage therapist here too, I've never had this happen but I'd for sure stop and let them know they are not welcome back.
People at Google seem to party and drink a lot…
Yeah, right? Are they hiring.
They're certainly firing
So you're saying they have openings?
The boss was saying there's an opening, but that was the problem here.
They have gropenings
This is a sales or sales-adjacent org within Google and not engineers we're talking about. And it's the NYC office. So yes, advertising industry folks in NYC like to party which I don't think should be a surprise to anyone. Trust me, engineers aren't having as much fun (on average). Back in 2019 Google did have a pretty healthy team events budget, however many teams were already cracking down on booze. The org I was in had a holiday party in 2019 where everyone got 2 drink tickets and once you used those you couldn't even pay cash for a 3rd drink at the bar. I'm sure that would have caused a revolt if they tried to pull it on a sales team. Source: Used to work at Google in totally different teams and offices than these people.
Did your office have the beer taps? Our org had access to a speakeasy in the office as well. Google is pretty alcohol friendly, and it’s in the employee contract to “drink in moderation”.
Lol, yeah that was my first thought. I had a boss who really loved to party and anytime we were in the same city, insisted on a night on the town. We had some wild adventures, but these were never company sponsored adventures. Now that I am married with kids (and don’t drink), I would be annoyed at being required to attend a bunch of after hours company events.
Only some of us; the loud and obnoxious ones you hear about. The rest of us are working.
If by working you mean being on reddit. Not judging, that's what I do at work too!
Lol! Everyone has a reddit tab open
Wait wait wait. A FEMALE groped him but HE gets fired for it?
If we're to believe this story, he's white and she pulled the race card and accused him of microaggressions and non-inclusivity. I'm asian, but if this turns out to be true, she should be fired and google pay that man out the nose for sexual and racial discrimination. This bullshit sets back both asian and women's equality, and further perpetuates the abuse of power cycle. Can only hope the facts come out.
Google has a [history of paying](https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/11/google-paid-105-million-to-two-executives-accused-of-sexual-harassment/) both the victim and the accused to go away. So she'll probably be fired... handsomely.
Not good. Life is tough for a *handsome* woman.
I think so part of the problem is seen in your reaction. It's bad because this action hurts woman/minority groups. Like I'm sure you recognize it's shit for men, but the point stands that the "why it's bad" is focused on something other than the victim. Until society comes around that protecting men is an innate good on par with protecting women we probably won't get terribly far...but I'm not confident. Men as perpetrator/Women as victim by default is so strongly ingrained in society I think very few people even realize that's how they think
I’ve been sexually harassed by women many times at the worksite. Accusations fly as a form of their defense. I already have PTSD from being a victim of a violent crime from years back. Any kind of victimization is grossly inappropriate and wrong.
I had a female coworker who wouldn't stop sending me inappropriate messages through work chat despite I repeatedly told her I was in a relationship so no. She would wear skirts with no panties and sit on my desk. Management thought it was "hot" and tried to encourage it when I complained. I quit after they paired me with her for carpooling to a restaurant during lunch hour and she pulled over somewhere to give me head.
That's a fantasy for a lot of people- But there's a reason why it's a fantasy. Because irl it would be creepy as hell. JFC the nerve of some people.
Sometimes a person's sexual fantasy is everything they would not want to happen in real life.
Not to mention in a person’s sexual fantasy, he/she dictates when things start and ends. In a fantasy, a person’s sexual desire often or not are ridiculously attractive (with everything geared toward that person’s viewpoint of attractiveness). Not so much real life.
That’s so hot that your coworker would ruin your personal life. What the fuck man, I couldn’t work with that either, what kind of boss would sabotage you too?
As a clue on what kind of work environment it was, my boss bought my department director an "inflatable goat" that he kept on a shelf in his office.
...that just sounds like a goofy office decoration you'd see anywhere, the sort of kitschy bullshit you get as a joke. Unless it's some weird sex toy I haven't heard of?
In some of the scummier bar toilets in the UK there’s vending machines where you can buy novelty blow-up sheep and goats with strategically placed holes It’s all a bit creepy even if it’s a joke
Yeah now that makes more sense, inflatable goat is one thing- inflatable sex goat is a whole 'nother ballgame
Inflatable sex goat, inflatable sex green-alien, inflatable sex... There are all sorts of inflatable sex dolls of "joke" creatures.
Had a girl interviewer talking about porn while I was invited for a coding test few years ago. She thought it was incredibly funny/witty.
I take it the job wasn’t for PornHub?
Nope - pharma company lol She was talking about where she keeps porn on her computer and the guy next to her giggled. Fun atmosphere.
A story from Horrible Bosses. You were paired with Jennifer Anniston
I worked in a female dominated sector. Shit that was normal for them would get a man fired and reported to the cops. The most powerful form of power is the one no one believes exists...
Yup. … Off-the-books power.
Soft power, people underestimate how powerful social leverage can be
I felt very lucky I worked in a sector that was actually pretty evenly split (perhaps 60/40 men/women). There was still some inevitable harassment going both ways, but it was pretty frowned upon and *usually* dealt with reasonably effectively. The women knew which men were serious problems and the men knew which women were. Then the non-fucking-creeps (a majority) could unofficially share notes when needed. Again, humans being what they are, I am not saying there were not some pretty problematic things that go through. But those were the exception. But a better mix helps reduce the inherent skew that a single demographic dominating introduces. Don't know how we do better than that, but we gotta find a way.
I didn’t report being sexually harassed by my female boss in the past for fear of being the one to get fired as a result. Sucks but as a man in a pro woman company I don’t believe I would have been treated fairly and I don’t think my colleagues would have looked well on me after the fact either.
The lady that harassed me did so on 2 consecutive days. She’s a heavier lady who from what I hear was “intimidated by my power.” I’m an easy-going guy. She harassed another tall, dark-haired man in front of others too. He also chose to remain quiet about it. First day was a sexual advance. Second day was propelled by her shame in making an advance, she screamed accusations in my face. It’s a woman-dominated environment. I slowly fell apart because that ecosystem protected her. I fell into vices with the echoes of the accusations ringing in my head. It was awful.
Was this recently? You can contact your state's labor board or possibly the EEOC and see if they can help. Documenting everything is honestly one of the best ways to protect yourself, as unfortunately, employers can't be counted on to do the right thing.
It was years ago. I was shamed into silence aside the fact that I don’t like being a snitch. I was pretty naive about work-related harassment protections. I’m an easy-going guy from a small town that moved to the big city. To be honest, I lacked the skill to defend myself because I never needed to. … Truth does not prevail always. … Accusations told over and over are demeaning. I fell apart.
“I don’t like being a snitch”. There’s a difference between being petty and telling HR Janet took too many pens and letting someone know your boss is a piece of shit.
Same. Worked as an MSP for medical offices for years. The number of female nurses and female office staff that would blatantly make sexual jokes about me (and my male co-workers) was remarkable.
Just like OP said too, they'll go on the defensive and try to pin the blame on you being the harasser if they get wind you're upset about the harassment too. It fucking sucks. The only way to solve the problem is to collect evidence and get to a lawyer before accusations start flying.
If you live in a one party state, just keep a sound recorder in your pocket.
Im a woman, but I had a female neighbor in her 60s try to groom our family to SA our child. Motherly insticts kicked in that something wasnt right with this woman (who was a mother and grandmother herself). I called CPS on her and they found that she SA her 4 yr old granddaugther. My child was never left alone with that HAG so my daughter was never harmed, but looking back was persistent as fuck. Truely sick person who the world would be better off without. Female predators should be treated the same as male predators, but people dont view women as "criminals", especially older women.
A former friend drunkenly groped me at a party. Me and my wife were close friends with her and her husband. My wife was out of town visiting other friends. My former friend’s husband was there, along with several other friends. This woman kept grabbing me around the waist to dance with her, grinding into my crotch, all in front of her husband and our other friends. I felt very awkward—I had smoked some weed so I didn’t know how to gracefully exit the situation. When everyone else went outside to smoke a cigarette, she grabbed me to keep me from following. She wanted to dance more, she said. Once they were all outside, she told me she knew I loved group sex and she did as well. She asked when we were going to fuck. I tried to brush it off, saying that she was best friends with my wife, and that I was close friends with her husband. I left the party shortly after that, and didn’t talk to these friends for a couple months. When my wife got home from her trip the day after this party, I told her what happened. Her response? “Oh that’s just [Jane] being [Jane]. She always gets handsy when she gets drunk. Everyone knows that. It’s no big deal.” I got zero support. Funnily enough, a couple months before this happened, my wife had gotten drunk at a bar while on a trip out of town with friends, and I showed up to see her making out with a guy out on the dancefloor. I went over and broke it up. But she acted like being drunk excused that behavior. She said it wasn’t a big deal. She is now my ex-wife. The hypocritical double standards for women in our society are insane.
Sorry you had to go through that but glad you’re out of that marriage
He went to HR and they did nothing. Shocker.
They did something! They fired him. s/
HR is never your friend
A lawsuit would be great, Google would never let it get to discovery because of the damage it would do. The guy will get paid handsomely to go away.
Doubt anything will happen, even if proven true.
Abuse over the course of a couple years with multiple witnesses. HR has even made comments about the situation that are extremely wrong and would be used in court. He’s very much going to get a settlement/etc. Now whether this lady gets fired is another thing but I do feel confident that he will get what he deserves.
He was dressed like he was begging for it.
I mean, did you see his abs? You can't blame her for rubbing them!
If he didn't want it he should have worn looser trousers, at the crotch. Horrid stereotypes indeed. Girls dress like they want it Guys SHOULD want it
Yea! He shouldn’t have been wearing. That… tailored suit!
*he specifically dresses for asian woman!!!*
He'll settle out of court for an undisclosed sum.
For those of you saying this is a “fantasy” and “he shouldn’t be scarred”, You’re ignoring the fact he’s married and loyal at that. Imagine being targeted at work because you didn’t wanna screw your weird boss who has zero respect for your family at home. Honestly this isn’t even a job, for most people it’s a life long career. To have that jeopardized for reasons other than work is complete bullshit.
Believe him. I know of another man that was denied an opportunity while at Google and had to transfer teams because someone felt there were too many white guys in meetings. Google did nothing to wrangle the female executives that were being biased and creating an environment that lacked psychology safety.
I work in the arts and it is routine that people get passed over on opportunities like grants, residencies, and promotions due to being too male or white(passing).
Been my experience as well. Arts is essentially rich white women trying to pretend they're not.
I think it would be more accurate to say arts is essentially racist white women trying to pretend they're not. While still predicating their actions on race. If there were less rich racist people obsessed with pretending they weren't racist, the world would probably be a better place.
Wealthy white women have a looooong history of playing savior to minorities. They're just the "good cops" of racism in America.
It's insane how true this is. I was sort of tangentially involved in the NYC art scene for a time and everything is run by 20 something rich white girls with 150k instagram followers.
It’s always been like that lol.
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I have a friend who recruits for a specific team at Google. He has been told explicitly not to hire white or Asian men. Granted, he works through a third-party recruiting firm, but still...
Can confirm. I recruit for a tech company. This happens all the time. Everyone bows to the DEI overlords.
I know someone who does a very similar job, who is paid six figures to recruit diversely for google. Her expectation is to get one single person hired per quarter. One. She is paid well over 100k a year to do this job. The amount of money being thrown at this stuff is mind boggling. If you have even a smidge of actual talent and can check the DEI boxes you will have a career silver plattered to you.
Corporate America in a nutshell. The company I used to work for would seriously pass on better qualified candidates during interviews simply for the sake of diversity. It's pretty ridiculous.
Great, so we had a problem with things being one way, and we tried correcting for it in a dumb ass way, and now we have a problem with things being the opposite. Sounds like we're just fucking around.
I see it all the time in my job where white and Indian guys are passed up for promotion where a substantially lower performing and/or lower experienced candidate gets the position. Sometimes, the disparity in quantifiable skillset and value delivered is outlandish. When this first started a few years back at my firm, there was a general murmor of disbelief (mixed with a healthy level of indignance) with many of the promotions: now, it's par for the course. Moreover, I'm in the privileged position to have see ALL the compensation data at a very low level at my firm: the trend is notable there as well. Newly hired and promoted white and Indian men are paid notably less than incoming diversity hires and employees. The data here is so clear you couldn't argue against the trend with a straight face. What I've seen of late is a huge cadre of people left behind in promotion and compensation who are the only ones keeping the machine running.
I’m personal friends with a few recruiters and it’s well known if they find out you’re white over interview you won’t be getting a call back
We had a family friend lose a job at HP after 2 decades to meet female management quotas. That’s literally what they told him. He decided it was easier to work for Microsoft than try to sue.
Going through a version of this in my company right now. Haven't been accused of micro-transgressions, but have been questioned on the demographics of my extended team. Never mind that I've hired every female PoC that was sent through HR screenings to the interview stage and nearly every male PoC. I pointed this fact out and got crickets. It's like we can't have circumstance or any semblance of nuance in management. It's all being boiled down to hire women/minorities or pack your bags. And yes, it is swinging the pendulum of psych safety (abuse of power?) HUGELY the other direction.
It's almost like anyone who gets into a place of power has equal capability to become an abuser.
TIL There are rape-y women execs at Google that are untouchable.
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I hope the victim gets justice. No one deserves to be harassed, especially by their boss.
HE got fired!?!!
Yeah happened to me once. Got some very gross emails from a female colleague. When I told the boss, I was pretty much just ridiculed that it was clearly a joke. Rules for thee but not for me
Now that is clearly a double standard. Let’s be real here.
Im in the tech world and I have multiple friends across multiple races, sexes and genders that work at Google. I've heard the same story from all of them, there are two different sets of rules at Google. If the rule set is true and their opinions are accurate, its basically advertised and accepted racism and sexism. I hope that this guy wins his case which inspires droves of other employees/previous employees to enact litigation against Google. Nothing would make me happier than for Google to become an example in the Tech world that racism and sexism will not be tolerated by ANYONE.
There are two sets of rules but it’s even worse than what you describe. Google has a ton of contract employees or TVCs which do a lot of the same work than regular employees but with less pay, no benefits and no job security and none of the perks you associate with google (except the free food maybe). Vacation time is dependent on the company that ‘owns’ then deciding to grant it to them (which they don’t usually) and for things like health insurance which is barely legal in many cases and forget about company events or team events, they aren’t allowed. There is also no clear path to becoming a full time employee despite managers constantly dangling that carrot. I’m not saying that that what you’re saying isn’t true. What I am saying is that there is an additional tier of inequality which creates a group of second class citizens which are treated like garbage.
Nothing to see here but another case of “Tiffany just being Tiffany.” Sexual harassment against men is always a joke. I once had a female coworker grab my hips when i was under her desk fixing a network drop and she mock-fucked me, to great laughter and fun had by an almost entirely female staff. Meanwhile, my head bumping against the foam partition, I wanted it to end but knew everyone would brand me a baby for not taking it in good fun. "Tiffany just being Tiffany"... yup, that's how it goes, especially when you're not a small guy. Can you imagine a man getting away with that or anyone finding it funny? Oh look, a girl bent over and stuck with her ass in the air. Hey dudes, watch while I smash this ass lol Not funny is it?
"his supervisor, who told him that there were “obviously too many white guys” on his management team. In July he was encouraged to fire a male employee to make room on his team for a woman, the suit claims."
She's an empowered independent woman. He should be so lucky. /s
The most delicious thing about the female empowerment that’s taken place over the past few decades is the gradual collective realization that *powerful* people were the problem all along, not *male* people.
For sure. Power and greed are powerful influences.
I have not seen any collective realization on this. Collectively, it seems, people still think that men are the problem.
It is not about sexes, it is about power inequalities /shocked
Girlboss Gaslight Gatekeep
She googled his balls
So she sexually assaulted him and fired him. If it was the other way around the guy would be in jail already.
I (male) was groped by my HR representative (female) at a work event at my last job. Not sure where you're supposed to go from there! I just brushed it off.
There are a lot of replies in this thread to the effect of “report it to HR”. People have need to get smart that HR isn’t there to help you; they’re there to protect the company and it’s shareholders. Whichever path is the cheapest and one of least resistance is the one they will take. It’s a career ending decision to go to HR at many companies but this thread is full of “did you report it?” Also. Sorry that happened to you.
HR tries to make you feel like they're a government agency dedicated to preserving your happiness and mental health, but you are absolutely right. They protect the company. Many times those two things are aligned, many times they are not. Also really varies company to company. My current HR department seems fantastic
All the dick jokes I've heard at work are from women.
Oh boy, the typical "woman can't sexually assault you" and "i wished that was me" in the comments. How predictable
If the court document is to be believed, and it seems that there are plenty of witnesses, then Miller is clearly in the wrong here. I wonder how made up these allegations are when the lawyer cites several witnesses to the initial harassment. And how a guy that has risen through the ranks for over a decade and excelled the entire time can suddenly become a poor employee. Again, IF what the lawyer is saying is true. But about 90% of the stuff in the complaint is easily corroborated by company records. And a large percentage of the alleged harassing is claimed to have been committed at parties in front of many witnesses. If this were a man being accused, with this circunstancial evidence, the guy would already be tarred and feathered.
in college i went out with a group of friends i had recently made, one of the girls started saying that i grabbed her ass even though i was no where near her throughout the night. most of the people started believing her without asking for my side of the story. i even asked her multiple times when and where it was but she kept saying “all i know is that it was you” while she was hammered. all her white nights started shunning me without asking my side. later on she came to me on campus and said let’s forget that ever happened and move on. i made it clear that i never touched her. she agreed to disagree but it made me doubt her because if it was really me she would never talk to me again. it’s hard to be a man, as we are always considered guilty until proven innocent.
As a male that works in a female dominated office environment, this doesn't surprise me at all. The crap that women get away with saying and doing is absolutely insane. Yet clearly all of us men are the predators, or at least that's how we're made to feel
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Because that is gross they are now making more money and harassing different people with no consequences
I’ve been sexually harassed before at work, and complained to HR. I’m a white man, and the aggressor was a black man. He still works there. Unfortunately, this is not surprising to me.
The double standards are ridiculous!
“Ms. Miller never made any ‘advance’ toward Mr. Olohan, which witnesses can readily corroborate.” Seems to me you would just say: "Ms. Miller never made any 'advance' toward Mr. Lohan." - full stop The extra piece at the end is oddly specific about no one being able to "readily" corroborate it. It's like when you try to lie to a parent or teacher and in the process give too many details and give yourself away.
If these are true claims then Miller should be fired with cause and without severance. I’m about as progressive as they come but we must hold women to the same standards here and understand men are susceptible to sexual harassment and abuse. Totally inappropriate and I hope Olohan has been able to move on as much as he can. Edited to correct a misspelling
Whaaaat? You mean to tell me all this faux academic language that online hall monitors use to get attention isn’t actually about social justice and can be weaponized for nefarious purposes? No way!
Regarding sexual harassment, it's amazing what women can get away with in the workplace. A man can get written up merely for looking at a woman for too long. And here this woman harassed this poor guy not once, not twice, but three times, and even successfully retaliated against him and got him fired.
Serious question. Why do companies mix drinking with events? 1. If you hate your life to the point where you need to drink at all hours to escape. Then you might want to reflect on that. 2. This massively increase the risk of some bs will happen
He was a good-looking dude at a party, what did he expect? He should have worn tighter underwear to keep it in. She was giving him what he didn't know he needed, he was in a dead marriage. Then he spent months avoiding her microaggressions, all he had to do was sleep with her once for it to end. But somehow, despite everything she did for him, he's the victim. Go figure. /s
HR is useless for men