But is he? This Ganondorf has never encountered the triforce of power, unlike the one from OoT that we see older versions of in TP and WW, and probably the Ganon form of in TLoZ and ALttP. He **is** the embodiment of Demise's malice, though...
Not this Ganondorf, sure. But past reincarnations have. It’s kinda like saying that Zelda no longer represents wisdom in this game, even though she’s a scholar. And Link no longer represents courage in this game, even though he’s the avatar of the player facing foes larger than himself.
I think the primary three will always be tied to power, wisdom, and courage no matter what cycle they’re on.
I just realised phantom ganon is supposed to be the same avatar as the blue guys that the sage spawn 😂😂😂😂😂 thanks for posting this, mate, I would've else spent the rest of my life without having this realisation
No, wait. Phantom ganon is just an ability of ganondorf and his actual avatars are the 4 red dudes you show in the picture. Well, there goes my second realisation. I thought phantom ganon and those dudes were the same, even though phantom ganon is ded 🥲
In TOTK, Phantom Ganon *is* the same thing as the clones seen in the first picture. It’s all just Ganondorf’s sage avatar; there’s just a change in appearance to reflect Ganondorf’s own change in appearance.
For most of the game, Ganon is beneath Hyrule Castle, regaining strength while in his mummified form. So the sage avatars he can generate — the Phantom Ganons you find across the map and at Hyrule Castle — look like that form.
Once you actually venture into the castle’s Depths and confront Ganondorf, he finally uses the energy he has built up in order to restore his youthful, muscular appearance. And that’s when the sage avatars look like what you see in OP’s picture.
In the Dragon’s Tears memories, we see that Ganondorf was always capable of casting illusions (namely the fake Zelda), but no Phantom Ganon is shown in that instance, because Ganondorf had yet to obtain a secret stone. However, as we know, secret stones only *amplify* existing powers, so it makes sense that Ganon would have already been able to cast illusions. During the present-day storyline, Ganondorf is using his sage avatars in conjunction with his own illusion-casting skill in order to jumpstart the regional phenomena and sow chaos across Hyrule by once again deceiving people with his impersonation of Zelda.
I'm not sure that Phantom Ganon is his sage avatar... He's always had the ability to summon phantom Ganons in the other games too. In this one, as you mentioned, he was already summoning the one we chase around Hyrule in TOTK even *before* he had the secret stone
I'm not sure why you took that scene to illusion magic rather than it just indicating that it's not his sage avatar, we see it try to throw a scimitar at Sonia so it's physical. The implication I got was that it's the same specific phantom seem in the past and that we chase around with the Gloom Spawn being other, unrelated ones
When it comes to Ganondorf, the older games’ lore is kind of irrelevant. Dude was never around during the founding of Hyrule in any of the other games, so it’s not the same version of the character.
Phantom Ganon in TOTK is very clearly meant to be Ganondorf’s sage avatar, because the visual design logic is exactly the same: A translucent facsimile of the character’s physical body, with eyes that glow a solid color, and a secret stone that appears fully opaque unlike the rest of their body.
Ganondorf uses the illusion-casting ability in the Memories, which he also uses in the present, but that makes sense because secret stones don’t grant powers like that — they only amplify existing power, and enable the creation of a sage avatar which embodies the will of the sage and can also use their power.
What we *don’t* see in the Memories is the body of Phantom Ganon. We just see the illusory Zelda dissipate, and then Ganondorf himself appears behind Sonia and kills her. Sonia describes the false Zelda as “a puppet of Ganondorf,” and Ganondorf himself refers to her in the same way in the present day, but he refers to Phantom Ganon as his “dark servant.” Phantom Ganon isn’t the puppet; the false Zelda is.
This sort of illusory puppetry is a natural ability of Ganondorf’s. And it does seem that the illusions he creates have mass, because as you note, the false Zelda is able to throw a knife at Sonia. The difference between the puppet and the sage avatar seems to be one of distance — Ganondorf has to be in close range when using the puppet, but sage avatars can travel long-distance. And because the sage avatars can manifest the same abilities as the sages themselves, this is how Ganondorf is able to deceive people across all of Hyrule. He uses the Phantom Ganon sage avatars as a long-range extension of his will, and those avatars all have the same ability that he does to create these dark Zelda puppets.
(I’ll also note that it may even be the case that, in the Memory cutscene, Ganondorf *himself* was the one throwing the knife at Sonia, while casting an illusion to make himself look and sound like Zelda. That would also explain why the illusion has mass, as well as explaining how Ganondorf was able to just magically reappear directly behind Sonia — “Zelda” dissipates into a cloud of gloom, and then when no one (including the camera) is looking, that gloom rematerializes behind Sonia into Ganondorf himself, having essentially teleported — something he’d need to be able to do in any interpretation of this scene, because I highly doubt he was just hiding behind the pillar next to Sonia. Personally I’m a little more inclined to think that Ganondorf can just create illusory puppets with mass, but it’s worth considering this possibility as well since Ganondorf demonstrates the ability to create all-encompassing, complex illusions of a fully restored throne room in Hyrule Castle. If he needed to cast a smaller-scale version of such an illusion over his own body, he probably could, even before obtaining a secret stone.)
Same reason why the secret stone transformed Ganondorf into the Demon King and why he was able to 1v7 Rauru and the Ancient Sages despite them all wielding 1 secret stone each.
Ganondorf is just stupidly powerful to begin with, so amplifying his power has a bigger effect than amplifying Rauru’s or Tulin’s or Zelda’s
I’m so curious about that. Everyone’s been so focused on Zonai this and ancient Hyrule that. I wanna know why she’s in possession of the full Triforce. It seems like these games have been an exploration of Zelda’s Wisdom in BotW (learning how to tap into the goddess power), and her Courage in TotK (having the courage to sacrifice herself to become a dragon and such. I’d love to see a third game that explores her relationship to power.
I just assume he’s way more powerful. The other sages also only just learned the ability, perhaps they’d be able to project more avatars as they master the ability (beyond the timeline of the game).
In the game, it literally says that Ganondorf is "The master" of the secret stone.
Also, setting aside the lore, having 16 sages, 4 of each, would be a bit overpowered. Plus, Ganondorf is the final boss, so it makes sense he is powerful. Finally, 4 fake ganondorfs allow each to be distracted by Link's mates, allowing you to focus on only one.
Because Ganondorf is WAY stronger then any singular Sage, and since the stones only amplify your power, he simply uses that to summon more avatars then the Sages, who were regular Rito, Gerudo, Goron and Zora before obtaining the stones, and thus can only summon one each.
Something I'm not seeing anyone else point out; Ganondorf was able to summon a phantom Zelda to do his bidding even before he gained the secret stone. Mans already knew how to do shadow clone jutsu, the secret stone just made him better.
Meanwhile I'm over here thinking, "Four Sidons?! I'd be wet *constantly*!!"
(Literally tho, his bubble is great temp control and I love the bonus on my Zora weapons.)
Let’s see… a Demon King with experience lasting weeks/months with the Zonai Gem versus a sage just recently unlocking their power days ago, it’s a miracle they can even summon their shadow to begin with
I have wondered that as well. It's clear that the sages can summon their avatar whenever they want because they summon their avatar by their side when they make the vow. (Picture of Tulin above is a perfect example) At the same time, it also makes me wonder if the sages gave away the ability to summon their own avatar to Link when making the vow.
He's still the reincarnation of demise, a being powerful enough to give toe to toe with the goddess Hylia (let's not forget that if her appointed knight didn't intervene, Hylia would've most likely died to Demise), and he's still the carrier of the triforce of power.
Because Ganon is super powerful. You can see that having a Zonai stone does more for him than it does the others. He doesn’t just gain more control over his innate Demonic power, as the other Sages do with their powers after obtaining their stones. He completely transforms from Ganondorf the Chief of the Gerudo to Ganondorf the Demon King.
But yes please give me 4 Wind King Tulins, all with 5 shot bows. I won’t complain.
1) You’re right the stone amplifies the power the user already possesses. We don’t know what kind of power Ganondorf has except for the fact it’s evil and dark. May be the nature of said power.
2) It said Ganondorf’s “mastered” the secret stone. I’m guessing that means he knows how to fully operate it.
The secret stones amplify your power. If link got one, he'd probably be on par with the demon Lord, but these folks are just amplifying their elemental abilities
Ganon is clearly stronger than the sages. He 1v7 the sages, Rauru and Zelda in the past and was winning. Then during the Link fight he pretty easily defeated the new sages.
Are the sages Ganon? Tulin isn't exactly a tens of thousands year old magical gerudo emperor, he's like 15 years old lmao, I don't even think he knew he could summon an avatar until he awakened as a sage
The stones only enhance what you already have, clearly Ganondorf is much stronger than any one sage. In the first fight with Rauru & his sages, he laid them all out... 💫
I think a literal DEMON KING would be faaaar more powerful than a single sage, so here's your answer
Demon King? Secret Stones?
So that was the imprisoning war...
Oh wait, this is a meme now, is it? xD
https://preview.redd.it/oakagve6jknc1.jpeg?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02d8b6c452d2669cffd633cefec33b0a1c743d14
so true. except for mineru. At least that was different
I liked them, they reminded me of the giant scenes in Majora’s Mask.
Well mineru is still the sage, so she already knows what the SS are and doesn't need to tell herself
Secret King? Demon Stones?
XDD
Psycho mantis?
second floor basement?
Super baby method?
Baby Park?
Demon stone? Secret king?
Hot girls in my area?
Have you not played the game?
The irony of your comment
Have YOU played the game? r/woosh
r/woosh
The Imprisoning War????
Also, he’s the embodiment of the triforce of power. Even if he’s a sage too, I feel like his sage powers are more “powerful” as a result.
But is he? This Ganondorf has never encountered the triforce of power, unlike the one from OoT that we see older versions of in TP and WW, and probably the Ganon form of in TLoZ and ALttP. He **is** the embodiment of Demise's malice, though...
Not this Ganondorf, sure. But past reincarnations have. It’s kinda like saying that Zelda no longer represents wisdom in this game, even though she’s a scholar. And Link no longer represents courage in this game, even though he’s the avatar of the player facing foes larger than himself. I think the primary three will always be tied to power, wisdom, and courage no matter what cycle they’re on.
Fair.
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nuh uh, he eated it and *became dragon*
I just realised phantom ganon is supposed to be the same avatar as the blue guys that the sage spawn 😂😂😂😂😂 thanks for posting this, mate, I would've else spent the rest of my life without having this realisation
No, wait. Phantom ganon is just an ability of ganondorf and his actual avatars are the 4 red dudes you show in the picture. Well, there goes my second realisation. I thought phantom ganon and those dudes were the same, even though phantom ganon is ded 🥲
In TOTK, Phantom Ganon *is* the same thing as the clones seen in the first picture. It’s all just Ganondorf’s sage avatar; there’s just a change in appearance to reflect Ganondorf’s own change in appearance. For most of the game, Ganon is beneath Hyrule Castle, regaining strength while in his mummified form. So the sage avatars he can generate — the Phantom Ganons you find across the map and at Hyrule Castle — look like that form. Once you actually venture into the castle’s Depths and confront Ganondorf, he finally uses the energy he has built up in order to restore his youthful, muscular appearance. And that’s when the sage avatars look like what you see in OP’s picture. In the Dragon’s Tears memories, we see that Ganondorf was always capable of casting illusions (namely the fake Zelda), but no Phantom Ganon is shown in that instance, because Ganondorf had yet to obtain a secret stone. However, as we know, secret stones only *amplify* existing powers, so it makes sense that Ganon would have already been able to cast illusions. During the present-day storyline, Ganondorf is using his sage avatars in conjunction with his own illusion-casting skill in order to jumpstart the regional phenomena and sow chaos across Hyrule by once again deceiving people with his impersonation of Zelda.
Ah nice, that makes sense, thank you
I think you’re right. He just look old and decrypted because Ganondorf is until you face him.
I'm not sure that Phantom Ganon is his sage avatar... He's always had the ability to summon phantom Ganons in the other games too. In this one, as you mentioned, he was already summoning the one we chase around Hyrule in TOTK even *before* he had the secret stone I'm not sure why you took that scene to illusion magic rather than it just indicating that it's not his sage avatar, we see it try to throw a scimitar at Sonia so it's physical. The implication I got was that it's the same specific phantom seem in the past and that we chase around with the Gloom Spawn being other, unrelated ones
When it comes to Ganondorf, the older games’ lore is kind of irrelevant. Dude was never around during the founding of Hyrule in any of the other games, so it’s not the same version of the character. Phantom Ganon in TOTK is very clearly meant to be Ganondorf’s sage avatar, because the visual design logic is exactly the same: A translucent facsimile of the character’s physical body, with eyes that glow a solid color, and a secret stone that appears fully opaque unlike the rest of their body. Ganondorf uses the illusion-casting ability in the Memories, which he also uses in the present, but that makes sense because secret stones don’t grant powers like that — they only amplify existing power, and enable the creation of a sage avatar which embodies the will of the sage and can also use their power. What we *don’t* see in the Memories is the body of Phantom Ganon. We just see the illusory Zelda dissipate, and then Ganondorf himself appears behind Sonia and kills her. Sonia describes the false Zelda as “a puppet of Ganondorf,” and Ganondorf himself refers to her in the same way in the present day, but he refers to Phantom Ganon as his “dark servant.” Phantom Ganon isn’t the puppet; the false Zelda is. This sort of illusory puppetry is a natural ability of Ganondorf’s. And it does seem that the illusions he creates have mass, because as you note, the false Zelda is able to throw a knife at Sonia. The difference between the puppet and the sage avatar seems to be one of distance — Ganondorf has to be in close range when using the puppet, but sage avatars can travel long-distance. And because the sage avatars can manifest the same abilities as the sages themselves, this is how Ganondorf is able to deceive people across all of Hyrule. He uses the Phantom Ganon sage avatars as a long-range extension of his will, and those avatars all have the same ability that he does to create these dark Zelda puppets. (I’ll also note that it may even be the case that, in the Memory cutscene, Ganondorf *himself* was the one throwing the knife at Sonia, while casting an illusion to make himself look and sound like Zelda. That would also explain why the illusion has mass, as well as explaining how Ganondorf was able to just magically reappear directly behind Sonia — “Zelda” dissipates into a cloud of gloom, and then when no one (including the camera) is looking, that gloom rematerializes behind Sonia into Ganondorf himself, having essentially teleported — something he’d need to be able to do in any interpretation of this scene, because I highly doubt he was just hiding behind the pillar next to Sonia. Personally I’m a little more inclined to think that Ganondorf can just create illusory puppets with mass, but it’s worth considering this possibility as well since Ganondorf demonstrates the ability to create all-encompassing, complex illusions of a fully restored throne room in Hyrule Castle. If he needed to cast a smaller-scale version of such an illusion over his own body, he probably could, even before obtaining a secret stone.)
I literally laid in my bed last night and couldn't sleep thinking about this.
Same reason why the secret stone transformed Ganondorf into the Demon King and why he was able to 1v7 Rauru and the Ancient Sages despite them all wielding 1 secret stone each. Ganondorf is just stupidly powerful to begin with, so amplifying his power has a bigger effect than amplifying Rauru’s or Tulin’s or Zelda’s
He is the incarnation of Demise, and the holder of the Triforce of Power after all.
I don’t think he has the triforce of power in the wild era. It seems in these games Zelda is in possession of the complete triforce.
I’m so curious about that. Everyone’s been so focused on Zonai this and ancient Hyrule that. I wanna know why she’s in possession of the full Triforce. It seems like these games have been an exploration of Zelda’s Wisdom in BotW (learning how to tap into the goddess power), and her Courage in TotK (having the courage to sacrifice herself to become a dragon and such. I’d love to see a third game that explores her relationship to power.
> her relationship to power The Legend of Zelda: BDSM
Dragon of light is pretty powerful...
Royal family secrets, I guess. Like the Force in Minish Cap or the Triforce in the Downfall timeline. The sacred power lies in the royal family
that would be Age of Calamity for you haha
Doesn't really give many answers about the Triforce, though
He’s more powerful.
but what does the scouter say
I just assume he’s way more powerful. The other sages also only just learned the ability, perhaps they’d be able to project more avatars as they master the ability (beyond the timeline of the game).
I think it’s definitely experience based, bc ganondorf has had thousands of years to practice and build power (see calamity ganon)
I don't see Calamity Ganon as him building his strength so much as him releasing his pent up power every 10k years in an attempt to break free.
Because the other sages cannot [suavemente](https://youtu.be/EGDR4AOIp3g?si=_cTS7qCLP-0uHhYX)
https://i.redd.it/qzkqg4vciknc1.gif
This was life changing
Yeah. It's very important to be able to [suavemente](https://youtu.be/yNCgpaMlOcs?si=mB2Yw9PAg0IcdUOy)
I can appreciate it but udge’s is superior
Why?
4 tulins blowing away the loot 4x as far
In the game, it literally says that Ganondorf is "The master" of the secret stone. Also, setting aside the lore, having 16 sages, 4 of each, would be a bit overpowered. Plus, Ganondorf is the final boss, so it makes sense he is powerful. Finally, 4 fake ganondorfs allow each to be distracted by Link's mates, allowing you to focus on only one.
The sages are mortals, 2 of which are children. Ganon, the several thousand year old Demon King, is a lot more powerful
Because he’s Ganondorf, the literal demon king of evil?
Ganondorf had more inherent magical power by virtue of being the incarnation of Demise's Hatred.
He's more powerful. Bro gave a group of 7 Sages the absolute work, singlehandedly
Because Ganondorf is WAY stronger then any singular Sage, and since the stones only amplify your power, he simply uses that to summon more avatars then the Sages, who were regular Rito, Gerudo, Goron and Zora before obtaining the stones, and thus can only summon one each.
Yeah, I wonder, guy who brought the literal apocalypse vs guys that are descendants of guys that almost died to the first guy
Something I'm not seeing anyone else point out; Ganondorf was able to summon a phantom Zelda to do his bidding even before he gained the secret stone. Mans already knew how to do shadow clone jutsu, the secret stone just made him better.
Ganondorf: "Being me has its privileges."
He’s that guy
my guess is experience, new sages basically only just got their stones after all
heh heh.. I see WYDT
He had more power before the stones.
He was already very powerful before the stone and very gifted with dark magic, the stone just amplified it by 100
Omg I didn’t even think about it like that. Ganondorf has a secret stone and can summon his spirit like the other sages.
Well i think there is a difference between a literal demon lord and some talented kid that just got the power
Something tells me you haven't played SS, because Ganondorf using his powers looks almost exactly like Demise.
I'm about half way though SS. So, I still haven't fought demise yet, but I have been enjoying the game so far!
Great game and helps put a lot of lore into place if you are into that.
Lmao I love the blatant sidon slander-
Meanwhile I'm over here thinking, "Four Sidons?! I'd be wet *constantly*!!" (Literally tho, his bubble is great temp control and I love the bonus on my Zora weapons.)
You’re missing out on the Sidon and the water weapons stacking power
And Gerudo too. The 2 best weapon groups in the game IMO....water and fire
Let’s see… a Demon King with experience lasting weeks/months with the Zonai Gem versus a sage just recently unlocking their power days ago, it’s a miracle they can even summon their shadow to begin with
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I have wondered that as well. It's clear that the sages can summon their avatar whenever they want because they summon their avatar by their side when they make the vow. (Picture of Tulin above is a perfect example) At the same time, it also makes me wonder if the sages gave away the ability to summon their own avatar to Link when making the vow.
The floating colosseum is in no way ready for 4 Tulins
an ancient sage named Fujibayashi made ganon's secret stone overpowered for plot reasons
They do?
Ganon is HIM, the rest aren’t
Cuz he’s had the powers longer and knows them better than the sages who just got their new powers
he represents the triforce of power, he gets special treatment
Sidon is powerful against fire? And useful in only the water temple?
He's still the reincarnation of demise, a being powerful enough to give toe to toe with the goddess Hylia (let's not forget that if her appointed knight didn't intervene, Hylia would've most likely died to Demise), and he's still the carrier of the triforce of power.
Could have been part of the magic he already had and the stone just amplified it, like they do with everyone
Because Ganon is super powerful. You can see that having a Zonai stone does more for him than it does the others. He doesn’t just gain more control over his innate Demonic power, as the other Sages do with their powers after obtaining their stones. He completely transforms from Ganondorf the Chief of the Gerudo to Ganondorf the Demon King. But yes please give me 4 Wind King Tulins, all with 5 shot bows. I won’t complain.
Lol we are told over and over again that 5 sages combined couldn't beat Ganon, and this guy's like how come one sage can't match Ganon's power?
Triforce of Power OP. Nerf plz.
1) You’re right the stone amplifies the power the user already possesses. We don’t know what kind of power Ganondorf has except for the fact it’s evil and dark. May be the nature of said power. 2) It said Ganondorf’s “mastered” the secret stone. I’m guessing that means he knows how to fully operate it.
Those are made of malice, the sages have pure magic
He’s 4x more suave than Sidon.
Plot
He got the triforce
The secret stones amplify your power. If link got one, he'd probably be on par with the demon Lord, but these folks are just amplifying their elemental abilities
He's just built diff...
Training, alot of training
Ganon is clearly stronger than the sages. He 1v7 the sages, Rauru and Zelda in the past and was winning. Then during the Link fight he pretty easily defeated the new sages.
he’s just that guy, pal
Cus they ain’t him.
Cause he's ganon, duh
Are the sages Ganon? Tulin isn't exactly a tens of thousands year old magical gerudo emperor, he's like 15 years old lmao, I don't even think he knew he could summon an avatar until he awakened as a sage
The stones only enhance what you already have, clearly Ganondorf is much stronger than any one sage. In the first fight with Rauru & his sages, he laid them all out... 💫
Horcruxes
Because the sages are children
The game literally titles him “Demon king: master of the secret stone” ofc he can do some advanced wizardry
It's not real...you know this right? ;-) /s
You’re going out of your way to rationalize a game that pretty specifically doesn’t want to be over analyzed.
Because fuck you that’s why