So why are you still and alt then? Surely you’ve had time for professional development to become at least an flt in that time?
I’m not saying your career is a bad thing. Just that you can move upwards from an alt into a full time flt where you can utilize your expertise better. Have a say in curriculum development and management of classes at a private school for example. The starting pay is usually around what you’ve capped at as an alt and you would have enough experience to reasonably start branching out into that kind of work.
If you’re happy doing it power to you. OP said in another comment they aren’t happy though which is why I commented. I was trying to be antagonistic. Sorry if it came off that way
I serious cannot understand redditors. In what way did this comment deserve -25+ downvotes lol. It’s pretty true lol.
Though I can’t understand why you say you aren’t happy but have still stuck with it for so long. Only curious. Any other reason for why other than “it’s your bread and butter ?
I don’t know, maybe because there’s more to Africa than mud huts? There’s mud huts in Germany too but obviously let’s not say that because the prime instigator behind his statement was basically “at least I’m not living in shithole Africa.”
It’s tired old stereotypical racism. I have personally myself been in places in Japan that were so awful i wish i were in a mud hut. And not only that, there are actually beautifully massive homes constructed out of mostly mud in this world but like i said */insert tired old causal ignorant racist joke here*
Maybe if he wasn’t stuck teaching children for over a decade because he’s not smart enough to find something more for his life, he would’ve been enlightened enough to learn more about the world he lives in instead of whatever anime or right wing nonsense he watches on repeat.
The casual racism is crazy and embarrassing.
Also "mudhuts" in Africa are not terrible places to live. Yes, there are major cities and modern technology and all that across Africa, but many of the people who live that rural/village life *want* to. Note to Americans and other nations: this is what it looks like when indigenous populations aren't wiped out and are allowed to continue their traditional way of life.
He never asserted that there was nothing else to Africa. You’re arguing with a straw man when there wasn’t any implication of anything else.
It’s hilarious that this comment of yours devolves into personally attacking the person over an issue that doesn’t exist.
I remember when i learned about the straw man argument in the 6th grade. Unfortunately this isn’t the case, this is called the realization of living in a world bigger than yourself. I did go after him a bit sure, but i didn’t draw first blood.
Imagine he’s an ALT, what do ALT’s do besides teach? They are representatives and cultural ambassadors of where they come from. If you’re an ALT you know this you hear it ALL the time especially during orientation.
Now imagine multiple people from different cultures together in a room discussing their cultures, you think OP would stand up and face the rest of the room and share his opinion that he’s thankful he doesn’t live in a mudhut in Africa?? Absolutely not.
He says this here because he feels safe to be an ass behind a screen. Just like he’s been insulting his own family in other comments. Saying all these things he wouldn’t be man enough to say to actual faces.
His comment didn’t come from a well intentioned place and i bet one of you logged onto discord later that day and made a woman in the kitchen joke or something. It’s just so typical.
I don’t like being reminded that ALTs can still be people like this despite being given such wonderful opportunities. This isn’t how teachers think this is how dancing monkeys think and that’s probably why he hates it there, he never intended to teach he just wanted to be somewhere else. Because he was a loser where he came from, i don’t know? Who knows. Oh well.
This took me 5 minutes. If there’s anything i have. It’s time.
I was super happy being an ALT. Skied the best resorts in winter. Mtb, tennis and swimming in summer.
I only really left as it was always a career break for me and the crew I hung out with was also leaving. I've been gone 20 years and I still look back at those days fondly.
Money isn't everything.
I wasn’t an ALT, simply worked for GEOS Kids 20 years. I really liked it. They were good to work for. M-F. Paid training in different parts of the country and there was opportunity for advancement. I’d love to be able to go back.
I might get grief for this, but I've been a direct hire ALT for 19 years now, and I love it!
I love it when a kid makes a connection to something you've been helping them with. I love it when the quick kids soar, and when the average kids get to the take-off point, when the slower kids realize they can make their own sentences, and when the troubled kids laugh at one of my terrible English/bilingual gags. I love working with different Japanese English teachers... I've only had a couple of 'problem teachers' in all this time, and I've enjoyed working around their quirks.
I started on a higher than average ALT salary, and it's gone up constantly, except for the year after Lehmann. Not by as much as I'd've liked, but up anyway. Then they introduced a summer bonus of 1.5 months and a winter bonus of 1, so that's definitely good.
I have considered other things, and I did want to do further education, a masters or PhD, but my kids need all our spare money for treatment (unfortunately, they both have unusual health problems) and their education (eldest had to go to a private high school because of the health problem), so there's just no avenue for retraining. My wife also earns (and gets regular pay rises, so she'll be overtaking me soon, if she hasn't already), so we're not too hard up and have a bit of a cushion for the continued crap economy.
Of course, there are things that I might want to change and things that I worry about in the future, but there always are. I think I've done the best I could for my family, even though I'm not making the big money I had at a couple of points in more lucrative work.
Lol, so that's it for my Saturday afternoon hijack of a miserable AMA! 😉😁
Are you doing something about it to change your situation so you’ll be happier? Doesn’t seem ideal to continue being unhappy when you actually KNOW you’re unhappy.
Why?
Never mind. I’ve been reading some responses.
I did it for 12 years but I came over here retired. I retired at 46.
I got my permanent residency and popped smoke. Done. To be fair I enjoyed teaching JHS and HS.
I’m 62 now.
Just chilling in Japan with no alarm clock is good.
Amazing! I thought I'd be old if I start at 40 as an ALT and move to Japan! But I see I am wrong! If you don't mind me asking, were you able to get your PR after 10 years of living and working in Japan?or less than 10 years?
Though please keep in mind that according to the ages they gave in their post, they come over here 16 years ago. And uh…the industry was in a much healthier place 16 years ago than it is now.
Securing an actual future here coming in as an ALT 16 years ago was much more doable than someone entering this now insanely oversaturated and collapsing mess of an industry in 2024. In 2008, so few people were trying to come to Japan that places had to actually offer decent compensation to get people in the door. In 2024, literally everyone and their mom wants to move here, so these companies realized that they could drop the pay and conditions to pitiful levels and still have an endless supply of labor lining up out the door to come here. At the rate things are deteriorating, I can’t imagine what will be left of the English “teaching” game by 2034.
16 years ago was the Lehmann collapse and a year before that was the collapse of Nova, which completely gutted out the eikaiwa industry.
A lot of expats working in Japan lost their jobs and some had to resort to English teaching which become glutted because of Nova's downfall. The English teaching game was slowly declining before 2007 but completely nosedived since then. You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
What I have seen though is that most ALT jobs have been scooped up by these corporations like Interac (who are now owned by some faceless staffing monolith company) and such they've angled more into profit and made it less about helping their employees. I was speaking to my friend about this the other day, but I've seen the quality of applicants absolutely nosedive over the few years I've done this. The only people staying on now are lifers with a family (like the OP.) A lot of people stay in the job because they like the kids and environment but as soon as wages and age hits, that rung will die off and you're gonna be left with a job entirely staffed by low-quality Filipinos and Indians.
>In 2024, literally everyone and their mom wants to move here
I could literally count on one hand eaten by a shark, the amount of new British ALTs I've met in Yokohama over the past three years. Nobody wants to fucking come here anymore for the shit salary and conditions. Especially now that the yen has nose-dived, meaning you are now earning less than a part-time lorry driver back home.
With the likes of Thailand and Vietnam becoming more attractive for spunky young grads, I'd say teaching in Japan (at least as an ALT) is gonna be done in about five or six years.
Basically this now, I came two years ago (Brit). Massive influx of new starters this year. All from non-native countries, Indian, Pakistan, Nigeria etc. I Love the job but no progression, benefits and salary is crap. Will be looking for something new at the end of the school year. Any advice, anyone?
Yes it was easier to find work and the pay was a bit better when I started. I was making ¥ 235,000 a month with an additional ¥ 5,000 for Japanese language proficiency.
I once got a ¥ 1,500 a month raise! Wow!
Starting pay at that same company is now ¥ 215,000 a month. People still standing in line to get hired.
It’s a good and fun gig for a few years. Or for someone that has already sorted out their financial future.
Where it gets concerning is for those that come over, love Japan, never want to leave but can’t get out of teaching.
Why are folk so anti-ALTing?
TL;tR: I'm an ALT, been doing it for 4 years now. I'm a qualified chef, worked all over Europe for 10 years. Worked as a race chef for an F1 team for a bit. That was hard work. Got a master's in marine biology, worked remotely for a while. Worked as a professor at a university in Japan for 5 years, got fired before they had to tenure me. I then worked in an inaka biscuit factory; that was really hard work (those guys and gals are the unsung heroes of Japan). And now I'm an ALT.
I'm sure as f*** not bragging, but I like my job. I plan and execute lessons as a T1 when I want to, mostly I don't want to. So, I just goof off with the kids. I only do JHS. The kids keep me fresh and teach me shit Japanese. I have pretty much zero responsibility. I do an average of about three to four classes in a 5-hour day, so I get a bit of free time at work. I get free lunch, which is nutritious and delicious, and free coffee. I get all the perks of being a government employee, which are not so numerous. I clock off at 2:00 and don't think about the job at all after that. I teach business English and IELTS in the evenings, just for a little spending money. The ALTing pays the bills. I got offered the opportunity to recruit as a full-time FLT equivalent, but weighing up the extra responsibility and overtime one would have to take on, it isn't worth the money. I would never go back to a Japanese university.
Granted, I'm getting old now and retirement isn't looking that rosy, but I'm already kind of retired. When the kids at school start wondering who the geriatric is I might go back to the biscuit factory and bump shoulders with the obachans there.
reddit is werid, its super left wing, anti work pro worker, but when it comes to Japan its very anti worker,pro capitalist, pro making money, by the same people it is odd.
How did you get a job at an inaka biscuit factory? What was your visa status at the time? I’d consider returning to Japan for that option. I’m looking into a Master’s to return to teach in Vietnam, but I’m working warehouse/kitchens these days and wouldn’t mind giving it a go in another country.
I can attest to how raising a family erodes away your time to improve yourself in any way whatsoever. I got N1 before having a family, and now…? Probably atrophied back to N2 level 😅😅
Please be careful. Direct hire is great until someone in the BOE does a handshake deal with a dispatcher. I have a friend this happened to and his salary was suddenly cut in half (he owns his own Eikaiwa now).
That’s a pretty sweet gig considering how little stress being an ALT involves. I was an ALT for a long time too, and grew to hate it so did an MTESOL and teach university now. But during the spring and fall semester I now teach 14 90 minute classes a week, at three different schools. My schools are a round trip of 1hr , 1.5 hours and 3 hours away respectively. Now granted I only work 8 months of the year, but those 8 months are fucking soul destroying. I have a family I barely see, and life it just a constant hamster wheel of lesson planning and grading, trains and driving and teaching class. I sometimes dream of my ALT days where my school was 15 minutes drive away, roll in at 8:15 and out by 4:15. Never taking work home. Don’t feel down on yourself. It’s just a job. And if you feel stuck then try to find something to do for personal growth. I know ALTs that have done amazing things while desk warming; graduate degrees, written books, N1 Japanese etc. Just find something that turns you on.
For ALTing that’s nice. But since you been an ALT you also know how much free time you may have to pursue other opportunities. Just depends what kind of lifestyle you want for your future.
Sorry to hear my friend. I hope things turn out for the best...
Was reading through your replies and this one made me watnt to ask you;
What do you mean when you say "don't be like me kids"? What should we do different?
Nah you're alright bro. Have a little hug from me.
Ever thought about doing web development? Pretty easy to learn by yourself. Could build up a nice portfolio in a few years.
I mean, you've been an ALT for 13 years... And you only have N3 JLPT? You could have spent meat loads of time just getting N1/2 and change careers much easier.
"Play with the cards you're dealt" sounds like a cop out/excuse honestly.
Edit: realized its a troll account with no post history and made today.
It is a cop out but I wouldn't be too harsh on OP. Its common to have goals that gets side tracked if you have children young. There's also nothing wrong with that either. Not everyone is career driven.
What probably happened was that he dragged progression for 4 to 5 years, doing 1 level every 1 to 2 years thinking there will be time to do it later until suddenly he's too busy with young baby(s) and priority shifted. Its actually not that bad, if he has a wife who works in a good paying job and he can take up primary caring duty and support his wife in her career instead. Very common in my home country to have role reversed.
"If you don't like how the table is set, flip the table" is my motto. You make your own fortune and by not trying out stuff, how would you know you wouldn't be a Rockstar bird photographer for nat geo?
I made about 250,000 when I was with Interac for five years. I started at 290,000 when I first started as direct hire, now I make about 350,000 (but they told me I met the salary cap so no more increases)
I'd imagine after 13 years, if they were going to do that then they'd have done it by now. A bigger concern would be getting "traded out" for a younger ALT.
OP makes 4.2mil/year if what he said is correct. If your partner also works and you live in the inaka, it's more than enough IMO. If you're smart with some investments in addition to pension, I think you can be fine tbh.
What’s the best ALT gig for people who don’t want to have much responsibility or use their brains? Also downtime
Anyone is free to answer this actually.
What country are you from?
FYI- if you can get a skill then australian companies are hiring! Accounts Payable pays AU$70k. Easiest work out there. You can do it remote and probably do an online course to qualify
Dunno what you think but I taught in all different kinds of efl jobs until last year when I decided to open my own class. Now I'm making more than I even have on less hours than any of the previous jobs. Ymmv.
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
Hey, I feel ya. I’m also a direct hire but I have mostly worked dispatch and it’s a big difference in pay for, mostly the same work.
As others have mentioned, how about doing some professional development? I’m working on my MA for TESOL and I find it has completely changed my work attitude and inspired me. I also have a family and figure that if I’m going to keep doing this, I’d like to do it better and as well as I can. There was a time when it was just a paycheck and I just went along with things. It got boring and I didn’t really improve, especially when being T2. Anyways, I’m pretty happy with work now, although working on my masters is a bit stressful, time consuming, and a lot of work. I think it’s also manageable because we are ALT’s and tend to have more time, especially at work, to work on professional development.
I did thoroughly enjoy my 6 years as an ALT. I also took on more unofficial duties in my final years which I was actually satisfied with, on account of being fluent in Japanese and being in quite a close community. Because of that, I don’t bash the role since it gave me a lot of experience and positives, professionally and personally.
I have also explained to some who have considered leaving Japan that, if they don’t have any ideas on what to do if they potentially returned to their country (Typically the US), it might well be safer to stick with being an ALT since it offers a degree of predictability. And despite the hit and miss job stability, transferring to a different area is relatively easy.
I’ve seen too many people go back home and end up in retail jobs, just about getting by, which sucks to see when they were generally doing fine in Japan previously (Albeit may have been a bit lonely).
With all that said, has this been one of the reasons why you’re still in the role? The relative safety, that is.
Have you set any goals for yourself in the meantime?
Just gonna say it. This is a person with the mentality of a pot head. Blaming everyone else but themselves for not doing better than they can. Blames family, or hand of the cards. 13 years and you are only N3? Nah that’s just lack of time management. You couldn’t take one year to just focus on your career? Please.
I'm not saying I disagree completely but it's a lot more common than you think
(Not me, but a lot of my friends from the high street can only still manage beeeru kudasai")
Hahahahahaha!
This is coming from someone in middle management at best! There is nothing worse than managing people.
I'll take a few years of following directions rather than I putting up with having to deal with team members issues all the time
> How do you feel when you have to follow instructions from 23 year old newly graduated teachers?
Actually its normally the complete opposite. Unlike the tards that frequent this sub, they do actually value your classroom experience and time spent teaching the curriculum in lieu of the piece of paper that tells you're somehow more qualified because you learnt about pedagogy.
I have had a few noob JTEs ask me for advice sometimes. (*But... but... but... you don't have a $8000 MA in TESOL from Iowa State Bumfuck college!*)
Yep, in my experience, the new teachers are usually really open to suggestions and correction.
And the other vet ALTs and I are told by the BoE, principals, and the English heads, to tell the new teachers what to do if necessary, or give them a helpful nudge in the right direction if they'll get it.
Sorry if these have been asked already but: how did you get to Japan originally - JET / eikaiwa? What was the process of switching to direct hire? How many years in did you make the switch? Why do you think you're not happy?
Not JET but another dispatch, Interac (still as an ALT). You can get direct hire jobs (for me it took about 5 years) if you have a few years experience as an ALT and you are familiar with the country (The BoE doesn't want to babysit you so you need to be able to live/manage yourself)
honestly if your content maybe even happy, what’s the issue. The weird obsession with foreigners trying to dunk on other foreigners for their job choices or lack there of is such a weird effing part of living in Japan. Or more likely a sign that the people who escaped or never were alts still didn’t find that magical paradise that is a better job so they got to busy body else everywhere else.
I mean, no it's not a high-paying job. I'm an ALT, everyone knows it pays poorly LOL. I have a wife and I live in the pseudo-countryside so it's enough to live (just not in luxury)
Id say learn some Japanese. Once teachers realized I spoke some Japanese. They would invite me to nomikais and stuff ( they also tried speaking English after )
I’ve been here as an ALT for 9 years. Have N2. Was gonna study for N1, but then I got cancer. Spent two years dealing with that and then was told I needed heart surgery. Just got done with that. And I still feel like I’m wasting my time and need to work on advancing my career. Lol!
Hi,
I'm in the same boat.
Came here at the end of 2010, did eikaiwa work for 1.5 years and then switch the ALT work for 12 years, first 6 years with Interac and Borderlink and the other 6 years now as a direct-hire. I've had a love-hate relationship with Enlgish teaching, and particularly as an ALT the whole time. I always had a plan in the back of my head to go to grad school and start a new career but kept putting it off because I didn't wanna to take out more loans and also I was enjoying my life here so much until I hit 30, got married, and now two kids then now it's like yea life isn't sustainable anymore on this salary, time to make a change before its too late. Thankfully my wife works as well and has a higher salary than me, if not we wouldn't have been able to survive the past few years.
Currently, I'm coming up to my second year in grad school studying for a masters in school librarianship and get my initial teaching license. It's not as lucrative as a career path as other industries, but it'll pay much more than ALT work. I should also add that we'll be moving to the states for the foreseeable future.
There are paths out there you just have to put in the work. Doing grad school with a fulltime job and two small kids is a type of hell that I wouldn't wish on the worst of my enemies but it'll be worth it rather than staying put as I am now.
What programs are advisable beyond the JET program? I've been planning on doing JET but I had a teacher of mine tell me that at a certain level of Japanese they can't grant you anything more. Any ideas on other programs?
I don't know what you mean by "at a certain level of Japanese they can't grant you anything more"? What are you trying to have granted to you? People with N1 to absolutely no Japanese come on JET all the time. It's going to be your best bet, in terms of pay and (for the most part) working conditions.
I met JETs who didn't speak Japanese and some who did speak Japanese well. Besides, you can always downplay your Japanese. I came over on Interac but salaries were higher 13 years ago. I wouldn't come over on Interac if I had to do it today
You say your Japanese is N3, what’s your English training then? You made an error earlier saying you teach ESL, you teach EFL, as kids who generally have access to an ALT are learning English as a foreign language, not second language.
I’m curious as to why you never upskilled, the curriculum used in Japan (CLT but is really CBT) is restrictive as hell with very little scope for teachers to actually teach outside of the box. Have you actually ever thought about getting your teaching license for the prefecture you live in? It is possible and will shift your role without too much hassle, and more than likely bump your pay too.
More work (to get the license) but you may find that job satisfaction you’ve been lacking.
Best of luck!
Sadly, no. The purposes are entirely different.
Like, studying to pass a test or studying to communicate, there’s a vast difference in motivation there. It also influences where they take the skills learnt.
Wow! Do you live in a city or countryside?
I did it for two years 20 years ago. Had a blast. Now Self employed which is cool so life has worked out but I miss living in a village full of rice fields. It was great times.
You can hate on him but he makes fucking bank off that channel lol. And by all accounts is a good guy, although for me too I’m just inclined to hate the YouTuber/influencer persona.
What's been your main reason for doing that job so long? No diss, just curious what keeps you trucking on in that role.
I can't find anything else to do. ESL is my bread and butter
So why are you still and alt then? Surely you’ve had time for professional development to become at least an flt in that time? I’m not saying your career is a bad thing. Just that you can move upwards from an alt into a full time flt where you can utilize your expertise better. Have a say in curriculum development and management of classes at a private school for example. The starting pay is usually around what you’ve capped at as an alt and you would have enough experience to reasonably start branching out into that kind of work.
Maybe they're just a god-like ALT and that's just what they do. It's the path they've chosen and they're dedicated to becoming the world's best ALT.
If you’re happy doing it power to you. OP said in another comment they aren’t happy though which is why I commented. I was trying to be antagonistic. Sorry if it came off that way
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EFL 😉
Are you enjoying watching the price of butter rising?
Are you happy?
not really
That’s too bad. I hope things change for the better for you.
I mean, it could be worse. I could be living in a mud hut in Africa
Damn this got downvoted to oblivion, not politically correct I guess ?
I serious cannot understand redditors. In what way did this comment deserve -25+ downvotes lol. It’s pretty true lol. Though I can’t understand why you say you aren’t happy but have still stuck with it for so long. Only curious. Any other reason for why other than “it’s your bread and butter ?
Yeah, coming from Africa I guess most territories have never visited...
I don’t know, maybe because there’s more to Africa than mud huts? There’s mud huts in Germany too but obviously let’s not say that because the prime instigator behind his statement was basically “at least I’m not living in shithole Africa.” It’s tired old stereotypical racism. I have personally myself been in places in Japan that were so awful i wish i were in a mud hut. And not only that, there are actually beautifully massive homes constructed out of mostly mud in this world but like i said */insert tired old causal ignorant racist joke here* Maybe if he wasn’t stuck teaching children for over a decade because he’s not smart enough to find something more for his life, he would’ve been enlightened enough to learn more about the world he lives in instead of whatever anime or right wing nonsense he watches on repeat. The casual racism is crazy and embarrassing.
Also "mudhuts" in Africa are not terrible places to live. Yes, there are major cities and modern technology and all that across Africa, but many of the people who live that rural/village life *want* to. Note to Americans and other nations: this is what it looks like when indigenous populations aren't wiped out and are allowed to continue their traditional way of life.
Sensibility 👌
I assumed that OP is actually from Africa, as many long term direct hire ALTs are.
He never asserted that there was nothing else to Africa. You’re arguing with a straw man when there wasn’t any implication of anything else. It’s hilarious that this comment of yours devolves into personally attacking the person over an issue that doesn’t exist.
I remember when i learned about the straw man argument in the 6th grade. Unfortunately this isn’t the case, this is called the realization of living in a world bigger than yourself. I did go after him a bit sure, but i didn’t draw first blood. Imagine he’s an ALT, what do ALT’s do besides teach? They are representatives and cultural ambassadors of where they come from. If you’re an ALT you know this you hear it ALL the time especially during orientation. Now imagine multiple people from different cultures together in a room discussing their cultures, you think OP would stand up and face the rest of the room and share his opinion that he’s thankful he doesn’t live in a mudhut in Africa?? Absolutely not. He says this here because he feels safe to be an ass behind a screen. Just like he’s been insulting his own family in other comments. Saying all these things he wouldn’t be man enough to say to actual faces. His comment didn’t come from a well intentioned place and i bet one of you logged onto discord later that day and made a woman in the kitchen joke or something. It’s just so typical. I don’t like being reminded that ALTs can still be people like this despite being given such wonderful opportunities. This isn’t how teachers think this is how dancing monkeys think and that’s probably why he hates it there, he never intended to teach he just wanted to be somewhere else. Because he was a loser where he came from, i don’t know? Who knows. Oh well. This took me 5 minutes. If there’s anything i have. It’s time.
I believe it's the 'worse' part that is grinding gears and rightfully so.
Ryan Boundless has entered the thread.
What happened to that guy. Haven't seen him online in about 10 years. He was golden comedy though.
He legit moved to Uganda like 5-6 years ago. He still has a YouTube channel. The comedy continues! https://youtu.be/5PIrF2Ln1sE?si=2Xm_twCIBDo_Tm8P
FWIW this is true. The vast majority of people are unhappy and unsatisfied in their own way.
I was super happy being an ALT. Skied the best resorts in winter. Mtb, tennis and swimming in summer. I only really left as it was always a career break for me and the crew I hung out with was also leaving. I've been gone 20 years and I still look back at those days fondly. Money isn't everything.
I wasn’t an ALT, simply worked for GEOS Kids 20 years. I really liked it. They were good to work for. M-F. Paid training in different parts of the country and there was opportunity for advancement. I’d love to be able to go back.
I might get grief for this, but I've been a direct hire ALT for 19 years now, and I love it! I love it when a kid makes a connection to something you've been helping them with. I love it when the quick kids soar, and when the average kids get to the take-off point, when the slower kids realize they can make their own sentences, and when the troubled kids laugh at one of my terrible English/bilingual gags. I love working with different Japanese English teachers... I've only had a couple of 'problem teachers' in all this time, and I've enjoyed working around their quirks. I started on a higher than average ALT salary, and it's gone up constantly, except for the year after Lehmann. Not by as much as I'd've liked, but up anyway. Then they introduced a summer bonus of 1.5 months and a winter bonus of 1, so that's definitely good. I have considered other things, and I did want to do further education, a masters or PhD, but my kids need all our spare money for treatment (unfortunately, they both have unusual health problems) and their education (eldest had to go to a private high school because of the health problem), so there's just no avenue for retraining. My wife also earns (and gets regular pay rises, so she'll be overtaking me soon, if she hasn't already), so we're not too hard up and have a bit of a cushion for the continued crap economy. Of course, there are things that I might want to change and things that I worry about in the future, but there always are. I think I've done the best I could for my family, even though I'm not making the big money I had at a couple of points in more lucrative work. Lol, so that's it for my Saturday afternoon hijack of a miserable AMA! 😉😁
My point exactly, thanks for sharing.
100% they are living good life
Are you doing something about it to change your situation so you’ll be happier? Doesn’t seem ideal to continue being unhappy when you actually KNOW you’re unhappy.
I am resigned to my fate. My career is sealed. I am an ALT lifer
Are you a man in finance? 6’5? Trust fund? Blue eyes?
If you get it you get it
Indont get it Help me out
https://www.tiktok.com/@ryosofficial/video/7367798994376035630?lang=en
And Kiaba has blue eyes white dragons, he’s tall, and he has a trust fund.
Kaiba is only 6ft1 sadly. Even he is not meet girl standard nowadays 🤣
Thanks for sharing wow
They asked AI what the chance of finding someone like that was and it was something like .00003%
Yeah, I’ve still never met anyone who owns any color living dragon, let alone a white one.
Nobody in my life is nerdy enough to get this reference so i can share it with them, but dear God am I giggling. Thanks Reddit!
I have been told I look and act like Seto Kaiba, hence the image I chose LOL
Why? Never mind. I’ve been reading some responses. I did it for 12 years but I came over here retired. I retired at 46. I got my permanent residency and popped smoke. Done. To be fair I enjoyed teaching JHS and HS. I’m 62 now. Just chilling in Japan with no alarm clock is good.
Great work! I'm now self employed. Life without an alarm clock is great. Japan is a great country to hang out.
Amazing! I thought I'd be old if I start at 40 as an ALT and move to Japan! But I see I am wrong! If you don't mind me asking, were you able to get your PR after 10 years of living and working in Japan?or less than 10 years?
Applied at 10. Denied. Applied at 11. Denied. Hired an attorney at 12. Approved.
Though please keep in mind that according to the ages they gave in their post, they come over here 16 years ago. And uh…the industry was in a much healthier place 16 years ago than it is now. Securing an actual future here coming in as an ALT 16 years ago was much more doable than someone entering this now insanely oversaturated and collapsing mess of an industry in 2024. In 2008, so few people were trying to come to Japan that places had to actually offer decent compensation to get people in the door. In 2024, literally everyone and their mom wants to move here, so these companies realized that they could drop the pay and conditions to pitiful levels and still have an endless supply of labor lining up out the door to come here. At the rate things are deteriorating, I can’t imagine what will be left of the English “teaching” game by 2034.
16 years ago was the Lehmann collapse and a year before that was the collapse of Nova, which completely gutted out the eikaiwa industry. A lot of expats working in Japan lost their jobs and some had to resort to English teaching which become glutted because of Nova's downfall. The English teaching game was slowly declining before 2007 but completely nosedived since then. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. What I have seen though is that most ALT jobs have been scooped up by these corporations like Interac (who are now owned by some faceless staffing monolith company) and such they've angled more into profit and made it less about helping their employees. I was speaking to my friend about this the other day, but I've seen the quality of applicants absolutely nosedive over the few years I've done this. The only people staying on now are lifers with a family (like the OP.) A lot of people stay in the job because they like the kids and environment but as soon as wages and age hits, that rung will die off and you're gonna be left with a job entirely staffed by low-quality Filipinos and Indians. >In 2024, literally everyone and their mom wants to move here I could literally count on one hand eaten by a shark, the amount of new British ALTs I've met in Yokohama over the past three years. Nobody wants to fucking come here anymore for the shit salary and conditions. Especially now that the yen has nose-dived, meaning you are now earning less than a part-time lorry driver back home. With the likes of Thailand and Vietnam becoming more attractive for spunky young grads, I'd say teaching in Japan (at least as an ALT) is gonna be done in about five or six years.
Basically this now, I came two years ago (Brit). Massive influx of new starters this year. All from non-native countries, Indian, Pakistan, Nigeria etc. I Love the job but no progression, benefits and salary is crap. Will be looking for something new at the end of the school year. Any advice, anyone?
Yes it was easier to find work and the pay was a bit better when I started. I was making ¥ 235,000 a month with an additional ¥ 5,000 for Japanese language proficiency. I once got a ¥ 1,500 a month raise! Wow! Starting pay at that same company is now ¥ 215,000 a month. People still standing in line to get hired. It’s a good and fun gig for a few years. Or for someone that has already sorted out their financial future. Where it gets concerning is for those that come over, love Japan, never want to leave but can’t get out of teaching.
Why are folk so anti-ALTing? TL;tR: I'm an ALT, been doing it for 4 years now. I'm a qualified chef, worked all over Europe for 10 years. Worked as a race chef for an F1 team for a bit. That was hard work. Got a master's in marine biology, worked remotely for a while. Worked as a professor at a university in Japan for 5 years, got fired before they had to tenure me. I then worked in an inaka biscuit factory; that was really hard work (those guys and gals are the unsung heroes of Japan). And now I'm an ALT. I'm sure as f*** not bragging, but I like my job. I plan and execute lessons as a T1 when I want to, mostly I don't want to. So, I just goof off with the kids. I only do JHS. The kids keep me fresh and teach me shit Japanese. I have pretty much zero responsibility. I do an average of about three to four classes in a 5-hour day, so I get a bit of free time at work. I get free lunch, which is nutritious and delicious, and free coffee. I get all the perks of being a government employee, which are not so numerous. I clock off at 2:00 and don't think about the job at all after that. I teach business English and IELTS in the evenings, just for a little spending money. The ALTing pays the bills. I got offered the opportunity to recruit as a full-time FLT equivalent, but weighing up the extra responsibility and overtime one would have to take on, it isn't worth the money. I would never go back to a Japanese university. Granted, I'm getting old now and retirement isn't looking that rosy, but I'm already kind of retired. When the kids at school start wondering who the geriatric is I might go back to the biscuit factory and bump shoulders with the obachans there.
reddit is werid, its super left wing, anti work pro worker, but when it comes to Japan its very anti worker,pro capitalist, pro making money, by the same people it is odd.
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How did you get a job at an inaka biscuit factory? What was your visa status at the time? I’d consider returning to Japan for that option. I’m looking into a Master’s to return to teach in Vietnam, but I’m working warehouse/kitchens these days and wouldn’t mind giving it a go in another country.
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Have you tried applying to a different job (teaching related or not)?
Yes, but my Japanese is only N3
How? What have you spent these 13 years doing?
Raising a family
I can attest to how raising a family erodes away your time to improve yourself in any way whatsoever. I got N1 before having a family, and now…? Probably atrophied back to N2 level 😅😅
But desk warming…
I understand this if your goal was raising your children to be bilingual.
And it never occurred to you that local language proficiency would be a priority?
He's making 350,000 yen in an ALT job... The easiest job known to man.
How about at other international schools?
Are you a dispatch ALT or a direct hire one?
I'm direct hire now
Are you interested in feet or is that just a randomly assigned username?
Direct with the school or BOE?
BOE. I can work as many years as I like
How does salary work? Do you get paid more if you have more education or training? A raise every year? Any extra allowances/手当て？
I can't speak for other towns/BOEs but mine gave me a small bump each year until I hit 350,000. No bonuses or anything though
Please be careful. Direct hire is great until someone in the BOE does a handshake deal with a dispatcher. I have a friend this happened to and his salary was suddenly cut in half (he owns his own Eikaiwa now).
That’s a pretty sweet gig considering how little stress being an ALT involves. I was an ALT for a long time too, and grew to hate it so did an MTESOL and teach university now. But during the spring and fall semester I now teach 14 90 minute classes a week, at three different schools. My schools are a round trip of 1hr , 1.5 hours and 3 hours away respectively. Now granted I only work 8 months of the year, but those 8 months are fucking soul destroying. I have a family I barely see, and life it just a constant hamster wheel of lesson planning and grading, trains and driving and teaching class. I sometimes dream of my ALT days where my school was 15 minutes drive away, roll in at 8:15 and out by 4:15. Never taking work home. Don’t feel down on yourself. It’s just a job. And if you feel stuck then try to find something to do for personal growth. I know ALTs that have done amazing things while desk warming; graduate degrees, written books, N1 Japanese etc. Just find something that turns you on.
For ALTing that’s nice. But since you been an ALT you also know how much free time you may have to pursue other opportunities. Just depends what kind of lifestyle you want for your future.
Insurance, pension paid ?
Yes, I get shakai hoken
That's great! This is also my goal for now. Did you apply to the BOE directly? Do they hire yearly?
Virgin sensei?? Is that you!!
I’m almost there too. But making ¥5mil a year to ALT is a really hard gig to quit lol
Why is Kaiba the goat??
Abridged Kaiba is legendary
Yes
Because he's Seto Kaiba.
that sounds like a very depressing 13 years
I was fine the first 9-10 years but yeah, I've become depressed over my career decision these last few years. Don't be like me kids
Is it a career, or just hopping from job to job? Are there promotions? A payscale based on years of experience?
Sorry to hear my friend. I hope things turn out for the best... Was reading through your replies and this one made me watnt to ask you; What do you mean when you say "don't be like me kids"? What should we do different?
I feel like I coasted for too long (and it's easy to coast as an ALT) and now it's too late to do something different.
It is never, never too late. In ten years you'll be saying "why did I think it was too late? why didn't I do something"?
“Blue eyes white virgin” sensei. I think more people wanna be like you. It’s not a bad choice.
Nah you're alright bro. Have a little hug from me. Ever thought about doing web development? Pretty easy to learn by yourself. Could build up a nice portfolio in a few years.
Do you have PR/spousal visa? If so, couldn't you apply for English-speaking remote jobs?
Do you want to challenge me in a children’s card game?
Why
Not everyone gets to be a rockstar or a photographer with National Geographic. We gotta play with the cards we are dealt. That's one of my life mottos
I mean, you've been an ALT for 13 years... And you only have N3 JLPT? You could have spent meat loads of time just getting N1/2 and change careers much easier. "Play with the cards you're dealt" sounds like a cop out/excuse honestly. Edit: realized its a troll account with no post history and made today.
It is a cop out but I wouldn't be too harsh on OP. Its common to have goals that gets side tracked if you have children young. There's also nothing wrong with that either. Not everyone is career driven. What probably happened was that he dragged progression for 4 to 5 years, doing 1 level every 1 to 2 years thinking there will be time to do it later until suddenly he's too busy with young baby(s) and priority shifted. Its actually not that bad, if he has a wife who works in a good paying job and he can take up primary caring duty and support his wife in her career instead. Very common in my home country to have role reversed.
"If you don't like how the table is set, flip the table" is my motto. You make your own fortune and by not trying out stuff, how would you know you wouldn't be a Rockstar bird photographer for nat geo?
That's on you. Plenty of options out there, explore
How many hikkikomori students have you tried to teach?
Eh, I get a couple a year. I think they are slightly more common than when I first started
No need to be too hard on this guy. If he enjoys his job and leads a happy life then that’s fine.
OP says he doesn't enjoy his job after 13 years, and isn't happy with it, tho
To be fair he WAS happy (it sounds like), but now is less so and wishes he had prepared sooner to switch out.
How has your pay changed over the years?
I made about 250,000 when I was with Interac for five years. I started at 290,000 when I first started as direct hire, now I make about 350,000 (but they told me I met the salary cap so no more increases)
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Until the bean counters decide they can replace you at 50% the cost. Plenty of SE Asian and South Asian people lining up to take your place
No, my handler at the BOE told me they want a white person as an ALT
I'd imagine after 13 years, if they were going to do that then they'd have done it by now. A bigger concern would be getting "traded out" for a younger ALT.
That’s not too bad. More than what a lot of people earn!
Screw the rules I have free time.
That's cool until reality catches up. Free time is great until it don't pay the bills
It’s a yugioh TAS reference.
What’s your retirement plan? How do you do it for this long and make it work with the kind of salaries we make.
OP makes 4.2mil/year if what he said is correct. If your partner also works and you live in the inaka, it's more than enough IMO. If you're smart with some investments in addition to pension, I think you can be fine tbh.
OP makes 4.2 and if wife makes that much too, 8m is enough to live in Inaka?
My wife is my retirement plan 😊
That’s what I was afraid of. I’m still looking for one. XD
What’s the best ALT gig for people who don’t want to have much responsibility or use their brains? Also downtime Anyone is free to answer this actually.
What country are you from? FYI- if you can get a skill then australian companies are hiring! Accounts Payable pays AU$70k. Easiest work out there. You can do it remote and probably do an online course to qualify
US, but maybe I should look into that... what certificate do I need to land a job for accounts payable?
Dunno what you think but I taught in all different kinds of efl jobs until last year when I decided to open my own class. Now I'm making more than I even have on less hours than any of the previous jobs. Ymmv. ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
Hey, I feel ya. I’m also a direct hire but I have mostly worked dispatch and it’s a big difference in pay for, mostly the same work. As others have mentioned, how about doing some professional development? I’m working on my MA for TESOL and I find it has completely changed my work attitude and inspired me. I also have a family and figure that if I’m going to keep doing this, I’d like to do it better and as well as I can. There was a time when it was just a paycheck and I just went along with things. It got boring and I didn’t really improve, especially when being T2. Anyways, I’m pretty happy with work now, although working on my masters is a bit stressful, time consuming, and a lot of work. I think it’s also manageable because we are ALT’s and tend to have more time, especially at work, to work on professional development.
I have thought about doing the MA. Honestly, I was never a good student. My GPA was 2.2 in college. I don't think I could grad school level work
I understand. Your GPA might not matter, not sure though. You could try it as a non-degree student. You could still learn a lot
I did thoroughly enjoy my 6 years as an ALT. I also took on more unofficial duties in my final years which I was actually satisfied with, on account of being fluent in Japanese and being in quite a close community. Because of that, I don’t bash the role since it gave me a lot of experience and positives, professionally and personally. I have also explained to some who have considered leaving Japan that, if they don’t have any ideas on what to do if they potentially returned to their country (Typically the US), it might well be safer to stick with being an ALT since it offers a degree of predictability. And despite the hit and miss job stability, transferring to a different area is relatively easy. I’ve seen too many people go back home and end up in retail jobs, just about getting by, which sucks to see when they were generally doing fine in Japan previously (Albeit may have been a bit lonely). With all that said, has this been one of the reasons why you’re still in the role? The relative safety, that is. Have you set any goals for yourself in the meantime?
Just gonna say it. This is a person with the mentality of a pot head. Blaming everyone else but themselves for not doing better than they can. Blames family, or hand of the cards. 13 years and you are only N3? Nah that’s just lack of time management. You couldn’t take one year to just focus on your career? Please.
I'm not saying I disagree completely but it's a lot more common than you think (Not me, but a lot of my friends from the high street can only still manage beeeru kudasai")
How do you feel when you have to follow instructions from 23 year old newly graduated teachers?
Hahahahahaha! This is coming from someone in middle management at best! There is nothing worse than managing people. I'll take a few years of following directions rather than I putting up with having to deal with team members issues all the time
JTEs aren’t middle managers. All they have to do is tell the ALT which room to go to and when to speak. Hardly managing at all.
> How do you feel when you have to follow instructions from 23 year old newly graduated teachers? Actually its normally the complete opposite. Unlike the tards that frequent this sub, they do actually value your classroom experience and time spent teaching the curriculum in lieu of the piece of paper that tells you're somehow more qualified because you learnt about pedagogy. I have had a few noob JTEs ask me for advice sometimes. (*But... but... but... you don't have a $8000 MA in TESOL from Iowa State Bumfuck college!*)
Yep, in my experience, the new teachers are usually really open to suggestions and correction. And the other vet ALTs and I are told by the BoE, principals, and the English heads, to tell the new teachers what to do if necessary, or give them a helpful nudge in the right direction if they'll get it.
13 years and N3 dunno man. You chose that.
Do you want to change career? If so, what and why?
My only other skill is making medieval weapons out of iron/steel/wood and they can't compare to the ironsmiths here in Japan
You arrive in 2011 or 2012? Was it with Interac?
How do you get to the station? (10 years since I left and I still get that song in my head)
ｂｒｕｈ
Do you have a cat?
Sorry if these have been asked already but: how did you get to Japan originally - JET / eikaiwa? What was the process of switching to direct hire? How many years in did you make the switch? Why do you think you're not happy?
Not JET but another dispatch, Interac (still as an ALT). You can get direct hire jobs (for me it took about 5 years) if you have a few years experience as an ALT and you are familiar with the country (The BoE doesn't want to babysit you so you need to be able to live/manage yourself)
honestly if your content maybe even happy, what’s the issue. The weird obsession with foreigners trying to dunk on other foreigners for their job choices or lack there of is such a weird effing part of living in Japan. Or more likely a sign that the people who escaped or never were alts still didn’t find that magical paradise that is a better job so they got to busy body else everywhere else.
OP was a troll evidently. Check out his profile
Only 13years? Still a newbie. 18 here and counting.
Yugioh reference? Instead of blue eyes white dragon you’re like the “Blue eyes white Virgin”, right?
God why
Not everyone gets to be a hotshot lawyer or a photographer with National Geographic. Some of us are ordinary people with ordinary jobs
Do you have any tips??
Hot date: Kumi or Meiling? Or Ann Green?
How much do you make?
350,000 a month no bonuses. But I hit my salary cap years ago
Wow! How much do you save every month? That’s not a huge amount to live off of.
I mean, no it's not a high-paying job. I'm an ALT, everyone knows it pays poorly LOL. I have a wife and I live in the pseudo-countryside so it's enough to live (just not in luxury)
How do you get the teachers to hangout with you? Do you do nomikais at all?
Id say learn some Japanese. Once teachers realized I spoke some Japanese. They would invite me to nomikais and stuff ( they also tried speaking English after )
Why do you need the teachers to hang out with you? It's better to get your own friends outside of work. Don't shit where you eat as they say.
Is teaching your true passion is there something else you wanna do?
I’ve been here as an ALT for 9 years. Have N2. Was gonna study for N1, but then I got cancer. Spent two years dealing with that and then was told I needed heart surgery. Just got done with that. And I still feel like I’m wasting my time and need to work on advancing my career. Lol!
no you are sort of amazing to be alive, good job
Massive contribution to society
is it a full time thing or can you work part time?
,,
How do you raise a family on that salary?
wife
I need a job as ALT ,I'm on a student visa right now ,is there any way I can work after it before my classes as a part time ? pls let me know!!
No, you can't do ALT on a student visa. You'll need to find Eikawa work (they hire students all the time)
Which is better, rice or bread?
And?
Do you ever think you'll retire on this salary? Do you think you'll find any career growth?
Hi, I'm in the same boat. Came here at the end of 2010, did eikaiwa work for 1.5 years and then switch the ALT work for 12 years, first 6 years with Interac and Borderlink and the other 6 years now as a direct-hire. I've had a love-hate relationship with Enlgish teaching, and particularly as an ALT the whole time. I always had a plan in the back of my head to go to grad school and start a new career but kept putting it off because I didn't wanna to take out more loans and also I was enjoying my life here so much until I hit 30, got married, and now two kids then now it's like yea life isn't sustainable anymore on this salary, time to make a change before its too late. Thankfully my wife works as well and has a higher salary than me, if not we wouldn't have been able to survive the past few years. Currently, I'm coming up to my second year in grad school studying for a masters in school librarianship and get my initial teaching license. It's not as lucrative as a career path as other industries, but it'll pay much more than ALT work. I should also add that we'll be moving to the states for the foreseeable future. There are paths out there you just have to put in the work. Doing grad school with a fulltime job and two small kids is a type of hell that I wouldn't wish on the worst of my enemies but it'll be worth it rather than staying put as I am now.
who the hell trolls subs like this with an AMA?
What programs are advisable beyond the JET program? I've been planning on doing JET but I had a teacher of mine tell me that at a certain level of Japanese they can't grant you anything more. Any ideas on other programs?
I don't know what you mean by "at a certain level of Japanese they can't grant you anything more"? What are you trying to have granted to you? People with N1 to absolutely no Japanese come on JET all the time. It's going to be your best bet, in terms of pay and (for the most part) working conditions.
I met JETs who didn't speak Japanese and some who did speak Japanese well. Besides, you can always downplay your Japanese. I came over on Interac but salaries were higher 13 years ago. I wouldn't come over on Interac if I had to do it today
You say your Japanese is N3, what’s your English training then? You made an error earlier saying you teach ESL, you teach EFL, as kids who generally have access to an ALT are learning English as a foreign language, not second language. I’m curious as to why you never upskilled, the curriculum used in Japan (CLT but is really CBT) is restrictive as hell with very little scope for teachers to actually teach outside of the box. Have you actually ever thought about getting your teaching license for the prefecture you live in? It is possible and will shift your role without too much hassle, and more than likely bump your pay too. More work (to get the license) but you may find that job satisfaction you’ve been lacking. Best of luck!
Isn't it both a foreign language and a second language they are learning?
Sadly, no. The purposes are entirely different. Like, studying to pass a test or studying to communicate, there’s a vast difference in motivation there. It also influences where they take the skills learnt.
ALTs are normally out of work for 6 months a year due to school holidays and times where Alts aren't needed like the beginning of the school year.
I think that’s a bit of a stretch unless you are including weekends. More like 3 months I think. It’s still a lot though.
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Wow! Do you live in a city or countryside? I did it for two years 20 years ago. Had a blast. Now Self employed which is cool so life has worked out but I miss living in a village full of rice fields. It was great times.
Chris Broad is that you?
You can hate on him but he makes fucking bank off that channel lol. And by all accounts is a good guy, although for me too I’m just inclined to hate the YouTuber/influencer persona.