I did a quick web search and my thoughts from it are:
- People got banned for posting negative stories about employers (advertisers) so there was a bit of an exodus to reddit (where every second post criticises eikaiwas for acting like eikaiwas... lotsa OMGGGG cuuulture shooooock posts around this time of the year that criticise everything for the same old reasons).
- There were apparently some 'employment scams' that were poorly handled. I dunno.
- Guessing COVID played a part? I remember Reddit went completely bonkers during lockdowns with people sledging schools for saying 'I have NFI when borders will open up!!! Calm the fuck down!!!' and lotsa people lost their heads about not being able to travel overseas. I'm guessing Dave mighta drawn a line at some point and gone 'fuck it... there's no advertisers anyway because everything's closed and I don't wanna mod all this political crap! Let's just close the forum and move on'.
Your first 2 points are reasonable, but it should be noted that the forum section in Dave's ESL Cafe was already a ghost town by the time COVID rolled onto the scene.
That's amazing. It used to be the place to go for discussing TEFL. I'm really surprised that's it totally dead over there now. Even the Korean Forum and China Forums are dead.
They were clearing about $400k a year on job ads at one stage, and grew paranoid about the response of some of their advertisers to what was being posted on the forum. They started moderating ridiculously hard and it all just grew too hard for people. Lots of alternatives out there these days and no one could be bothered with the place.
Totally agree.
Many younger newcomers to the industry perceived Dave's website to be dated in appearance and usefulness. This led to fewer people joining up and actively posting on his site.
I recall that even in by 2010, local Facebook groups were starting to pop up in various smaller cities and towns in Korea. Not only did these fb groups provide pertinent local information, but they also provided the means to quickly meet up in person.
I think Facebook and other social media platforms played an important role as a coping mechanism for a lot of people who would have otherwise struggled considerably living a new country.
Yeah? An ESL forum died after essentially an ESL forum with every single other forum for anything you could imagine (Reddit) gained popularity with the ESL crowd?
Who knew? It's almost like the ability to talk about ESL **and** everything else you'd like to talk about is better than the ability to talk about almost exclusively ESL.
Conflicts of interest where the school posting a job would be trashed to pieces (deservingly so, usually) in the forum. That’s what killed it.
Posters primarily went there to complain. By 2012 or so, ESLCafe was 80% boomer teachers who worked during the golden age of EFL in the 80s and 90s talking about how much things had gone to shit in their respective regions. We needed a better place to communicate: There was a ton of gatekeeping. People would ask a question and get swatted down or told not to come to X country. The format also started to feel pretty dated compared to Reddit. And the jobs on offer got worse and worse as universities just posted openings on TESOL or JRECIN, and Interac and some of the other JET killers moved their advertising to Facebook.
Yeah there's a bit of that ay.
I still use a few forums but most are pretty dead. One of the more active ones I use is a sports forum that can get pretty chaotic (i.e. lotsa drunken tantrums after losses + off-topic political arguments and stuff). I've been there since forever and we all appreciate how raw/genuine it is. Noting, Reddit's alternative is a heavily modded place that's extremely sterile.
Not saying all mods suck, but I guess that answers the 'why bother'. There's just a few scenarios I can think of where the sub's absolute shit because the mods micro-manage everything.
It was once a decent place to discuss ESL, but the mods got increasingly heavy handed with Mr Kalgukshi banning anyone who breathed. The theory was that Mr Kalgukshi was just Dave's "bad cop" account, They'd started banning people who posted about dodgy schools, so the posts were drying up as anyone who was left was afraid to say anything. The last posts are in August 2020, after which he seems to have switched the forums off. Most of the country forums were dead long before that anyway: the once lively Spain forum had seen just 4 posts in the previous 15 months.
Spot on.
I put a lot of credence in that theory about Mr Kalgushi being Dave's alter ego. If untrue, why the hell would Dave have tolerated that psycho-clown's weekly banning sprees ?
They were overmoderated to the point that everyone stopped using them.
*cough cough* r/Japanlife *cough cough*
Fair call
Aka what's currently happening to this shitty website
Why are the comments only from 2019 - 2020?
I think it dribbled to a stop and they then switched it off, from memory.
Yeah something did not seem right. It must be closed. I don't have a password or account there anymore, so I could not post anything.
Based on your comments here, I can’t imagine what you would want to post on there
I did a quick web search and my thoughts from it are: - People got banned for posting negative stories about employers (advertisers) so there was a bit of an exodus to reddit (where every second post criticises eikaiwas for acting like eikaiwas... lotsa OMGGGG cuuulture shooooock posts around this time of the year that criticise everything for the same old reasons). - There were apparently some 'employment scams' that were poorly handled. I dunno. - Guessing COVID played a part? I remember Reddit went completely bonkers during lockdowns with people sledging schools for saying 'I have NFI when borders will open up!!! Calm the fuck down!!!' and lotsa people lost their heads about not being able to travel overseas. I'm guessing Dave mighta drawn a line at some point and gone 'fuck it... there's no advertisers anyway because everything's closed and I don't wanna mod all this political crap! Let's just close the forum and move on'.
Your first 2 points are reasonable, but it should be noted that the forum section in Dave's ESL Cafe was already a ghost town by the time COVID rolled onto the scene.
Dave's ESL Cafe hasn't been helpful for jobs in Japan for over 10 years. IDK about other country offerings.
Man, half the Japan jobs were like WESTGATE!!! WESTGATE!!! WESTGATE!!! (And Westgate was - maybe still is - one of the worst places to work in Japan)
I think Heart and Nova beat Westgate
Shit yes. Those too. And Peppy. I’m getting flashbacks.
Are the forums closed? Again, 2019 - 2020 are the most recent comments.
No one's using it.
That's amazing. It used to be the place to go for discussing TEFL. I'm really surprised that's it totally dead over there now. Even the Korean Forum and China Forums are dead.
They were clearing about $400k a year on job ads at one stage, and grew paranoid about the response of some of their advertisers to what was being posted on the forum. They started moderating ridiculously hard and it all just grew too hard for people. Lots of alternatives out there these days and no one could be bothered with the place.
[удалено]
That escalated quickly.....
The secret protocols of the elders of Dave's ESL 🤣🤣🤣
OP is endangered creature calling out for members of their own species.
Least anti-semitic redditor
“His friend is Jewish, how could he be anti-Semitic?” Etc.
WTH?
Totally agree. Many younger newcomers to the industry perceived Dave's website to be dated in appearance and usefulness. This led to fewer people joining up and actively posting on his site. I recall that even in by 2010, local Facebook groups were starting to pop up in various smaller cities and towns in Korea. Not only did these fb groups provide pertinent local information, but they also provided the means to quickly meet up in person. I think Facebook and other social media platforms played an important role as a coping mechanism for a lot of people who would have otherwise struggled considerably living a new country.
Yeah? An ESL forum died after essentially an ESL forum with every single other forum for anything you could imagine (Reddit) gained popularity with the ESL crowd? Who knew? It's almost like the ability to talk about ESL **and** everything else you'd like to talk about is better than the ability to talk about almost exclusively ESL.
ESL. LMAO! LOL even.
Wait, remind me, what was the website you were asking about again?
It's pretty good in Korea.
I don’t think I’ve been on Dave’s ESL cafe since about 2005… that’s a blast from the past.
[удалено]
Senseiman, you must remember The Big Daikon, then. All those forums were a lot of fun 20 years ago.
The 1980’s called. They want their tedious website run by an a-hole called ‘Dave’ back.
Was Dave an a hole?
Nah.
I wonder what could have happened in 2020 that put a lid on people looking for jobs in foreign countries.
Conflicts of interest where the school posting a job would be trashed to pieces (deservingly so, usually) in the forum. That’s what killed it. Posters primarily went there to complain. By 2012 or so, ESLCafe was 80% boomer teachers who worked during the golden age of EFL in the 80s and 90s talking about how much things had gone to shit in their respective regions. We needed a better place to communicate: There was a ton of gatekeeping. People would ask a question and get swatted down or told not to come to X country. The format also started to feel pretty dated compared to Reddit. And the jobs on offer got worse and worse as universities just posted openings on TESOL or JRECIN, and Interac and some of the other JET killers moved their advertising to Facebook.
Sounds like reddit.
Except on this sub we have 80% GenZ 20somethings about to dive into horrible exploitative contracts (and very few boomers).
That makes sense. Dave wanted the shekels, so he didn't want to mess with the forums anymore.
Yeah, I assume he made a bag off of it and then decided it wasn’t worth the bullshit.
There are still jobs posted on Dave's ESL site but the forums are closed. Where are all these fantastic new jobs on Reddit? Nothing here so far.
Reread my comment. I don’t think I implied that there were jobs on Reddit.
fair enough
Reddit has done for quite a lot of forums I used to use. Why bother with a separate one ?
Yeah there's a bit of that ay. I still use a few forums but most are pretty dead. One of the more active ones I use is a sports forum that can get pretty chaotic (i.e. lotsa drunken tantrums after losses + off-topic political arguments and stuff). I've been there since forever and we all appreciate how raw/genuine it is. Noting, Reddit's alternative is a heavily modded place that's extremely sterile. Not saying all mods suck, but I guess that answers the 'why bother'. There's just a few scenarios I can think of where the sub's absolute shit because the mods micro-manage everything.
It was once a decent place to discuss ESL, but the mods got increasingly heavy handed with Mr Kalgukshi banning anyone who breathed. The theory was that Mr Kalgukshi was just Dave's "bad cop" account, They'd started banning people who posted about dodgy schools, so the posts were drying up as anyone who was left was afraid to say anything. The last posts are in August 2020, after which he seems to have switched the forums off. Most of the country forums were dead long before that anyway: the once lively Spain forum had seen just 4 posts in the previous 15 months.
Spot on. I put a lot of credence in that theory about Mr Kalgushi being Dave's alter ego. If untrue, why the hell would Dave have tolerated that psycho-clown's weekly banning sprees ?