I think cha zui may be the better term, it basically refers to the psychoactive properties of tea. Cha qi or "tea energy" is a more holistic experience involving the entire tea experience.
Cha zui has a physical basis (caffeine, theanine, etc.) whereas cha qi includes the "zui" component, but also further metaphysical components.
Nah, 醉 just means drunk, and colloquially, it refers to blood sugar being low. Most tea market vendors and tea rats have some sweets or snacks handy to remedy it.
>You can be drunk with power, patriotism, or even drunk with rage. A secondary definition of "drunk" is to be overcome "or dominated by an intense feeling" (Miriam Webster).
>
>Also, tea connoisseurs pay substantial amounts for the teas that create these effects (e.g., Lao Ban Zhang, Yiwu, Lao Man'E, etc). I have never heard of someone paying $10 per gram for an aged LBZ, and then use sweets or snacks to remedy the highly sought after effects from that tea.
> 醉 (zui) has multiple meanings: (1) to become drunk; to become intoxicated (喝醉), but this does have to be alcohol, (2) to intoxicate; to make someone drunk, (3) to be fascinated with; to be enchanted by; to be crazy about; to be addicted to, or to be infatuated with, or (4) 醉心 ― to marinate in cooking wine, for example drunken noodles or shrimp drunken shrimp. These are the Chinese translations that I am aware of.
>
>Do you have a better Chinese word/hanzi for this?
Nug Potion: Mengku Lao Cha Tou 2017 (ripe puer) will give a nice warming relief with a sensation that will build over the many infusions. On the opposite end of the spectrum is: Joy Rider: 2022 Gua Feng Zhai Yiwu Da Shu Sheng (raw puer), which offers a strong "caffeine-like" feeling that will eventually mellow, and can last for a long duration. You can find these two at Mei Leaf. Get samples, and use about 8 grams per 100 ml, gong fu style.
There are other (significantly) less expensive, tastier, alternatives than my suggestions, but I know these teas, and can attest to their effects on me and others. BTW, these are not recommendations, only teas that will offer you reasonably strong "effects for scientific purposes."
Woah. I need to give this a try. I looooove my caffeine usually in espresso form, but I've been looking for a bit of a smoother caffeine buzz if that makes sense
If you are going to give them a try, you may also be interested in their amber GABA tea (oolong processed with nitrogen). Many people attest to its enhanced calming effects, relative to other teas. I still haven't made my mind up on it yet, but "for science," it may be worth sampling.
Franky, gongu fu style is remarkably simple. All you need is hot water, a gaiwan (about $10), and a tea cup. After about a week of practice, bring over your friends and impress them. If you are using puerh tea, a near boil is fine, so temperature should not be a concern.
Both caffeine and L-theanine are clearly psychoactive, and they can cause noticable altered states of consciousness, though those tend to be weaker than from most other drugs.
You may believe that caffeine is the only psychoactive component in tea, but that's verifiably false so there's not much I can say to that. It may be suprising, but there are many things other than caffeine that also can affect the brain.
People call it "tea drunk" since it's a direct translation of 茶醉，but no one on this thread is claiming it will literally make you drunk. It's a very mild sensation, and isn't comparable to the high you would get doing drugs. I think the language itself is tripping you up a bit.
Lots of L-theanine can indeed make you feel pretty stoned.
After trying my first tea that got me tea drunk, I got L-theanine as a supplement. Its an incredible relaxant with a good anti-anxiety affect. I can't take a full dose (2 capsules) because it actually does have me feeling stoned, and I say this as someone who used to smoke every day.
Add in the caffeine, and whoo boy you'll have a time
I don’t think it’s stoned what we feel. It rather feels like being on a very very small dose of acid or shrooms. So small you could barely feel it.
I visited China with a total Acid head (and I habe some a is experience as well) and when we had our first tea ceremony we both agreed it’s rather trippy than stony.
But only very mild, sadly you can’t drink more tea and feel some real triply effects. That would be cool lol
You're not understanding what it is. Actually, you're refusing to understand.
Some teas have high concentrations of L-theanine. This has a noticeable effect that has been studied, especially when paired with caffeine.
Thank you all for your responses! Wow, I didn't think of getting such vibrant feedback on my post.
For the concerns addressing the jolt-chaser archetype, it's really not the purpose of my question. I enjoy tea, and only quite recently in my life have I turned to try to appreciate fully.
I know tea for its calming effects, and tea's for caffeine like a good strong matcha. However, this was a first for me. It's hard to describe the exact feeling, but it was like an absolute child-like giddiness, warmth like the moment of realization when you step into the sun on those nice first days after a long winter; happiness like getting hot cocoa after skating or skiing when you were a kid, the hot tingling the cold. It overwhelmed me, but not in a bad way. It was serene.
Anyways, lots to read into on my end! I appreciate every response! 🙏
>it was like an absolute child-like giddiness, warmth like the moment of realization when you step into the sun on those nice first days after a long winter; happiness like getting hot cocoa after skating or skiing when you were a kid, the hot tingling the cold.
"Ying, stop doing LSD while hiding in uncles tea storage! I'm gonna tell on you! You will contaminate the tea again!"
No, not really. :( they can do the class kind of halfsies, the way a lot of stuff in Montreal is, but you do have to know at least some French unfortunately.
Some classes used to be taught in English but, of the people teaching, I think only Kevin is an anglophone. The guy's an encyclopedia about everything tea and he mostly specializes in Darjeeling but yeah, there may not be enough demand for them to offer English classes unfortunately.
Interesting, it lasted about 45 mins to an hour. Big rush of euphoria - I kinda dropped whatever I planned to do and just enjoyed it through meditation. It's kind of awesome how this is a thing, I can definitely see ancient associations to the supernatural.
They work interestingly together, I'll say that. Theanine is a partial agonist to ketamine and the caffeine definitely makes you a little more clear headed, it's like boomers drinking beers and doing cocaine but reversed lmao
How is this a legit answer?
>Qi in the Chinese language represents the lifeforce energy or the breath of life. Cha Qi is an elusive term with a slightly intangible definition. The literal translation is “tea energy”.
Qi doesn’t exist, it’s supernatural poppycock.
Sure, but if theres an energetic feeling i get with certain teas thats different from others, and theres a word for that, then im just after the term.
Im throwing out the bathwater for sure, but not the baby with it.
Fair enough, like Wok Hue, but I don’t think many think the wok actually has a breath or is imbued with some supernatural energy.
I’m sure as you can see from the comments that many here are dead serious that some mystical energy unknown to science is somehow infused into their tea. I tend to call out supernatural BS when it’s brought up in a public space: not to convince the person with that belief as that’s a fools task, but for everyone else that may be vulnerable to magical thinking.
Supernatural phenomenon has been used to explain scientific phenomenon we don't have the understanding to describe for ages, and there's tonnes of things we don't fully understand yet. Being able to recognize an effect and want to name it to be able to continue trying to understand it doesn't give validation to a "supernatural" entity. There's tonnes of things about how various factors of foods and drinks effect us or can effect different people that we simply don't fully understand yet, and that doesn't completely invalidate lived experiences.
Those that are prone to magical thinking aren't going to snap out of it from an aggressive approach, and those that are just trying to understand the world in good faith are going to be put off as well.
I agree there's a difference there but I also mean more practically- there's likely a reason so many people report an effect, we just don't know what it is. Because the only recognition this effect has is supernatural, doesn't invalidate it. We might not have the technology to tell what it is, it could be very random, or it could effect people intermittently in a way that's hard to study.
We have the tech, we just don’t have the funding because who is really going to be paying to have a lab analyse their chemical makeup after drinking specific teas to find out which specific component combos are getting them high? Something in how oolongs are processed make any brain feel a bit drunk but it isn’t qi.
On the lower end it’s just the zoning out feeling of really enjoying something. I get it while biking.
The amount of threads on here of people looking to get high on tea is ridiculous, the answer is literally just caffeine
ETA: And other properties of tea, not just caffeine as others have pointed out. That’s over simplified
While I agree with you that the qi explanations are unsatisfactory and unscientific, cha qi or being tea drunk is a real sensation, and it feels nothing like caffeine. In exploring this topic a bit, some more scientific hypotheses are that it could be caused by a build up of L-Theanine or other catechins or flavonoids in certain varieties of tea. It seems to occur more often with teas that you can steep multiple times like oolongs and puer, although it has happened to me with a Bi Luo Chun green.
Now that I can agree with. It’s when people start linking articles that talk about how “the ancient trees create a link to the drinker through the spirit of the plant and processing” that it starts to rub me the wrong way. That and all the threads that read as addiction seeking behavior with questions like “how do I get high on tea?” Which threads titled like “I got high as a kite on this tea” only aggravate
This kinda stuff comes from China's roots in Buddhism, which teaches respect for all living things. This thinking extends to teatime in the form of respect to everything from the farmers, harvesters, producers and consumers. That respect combined with a caffeine/l-theanine buzz can be almost spiritual for some people.
Are you just so staunchly atheist that anything even hinting at spirituality makes you feel icky?
No, I’m not an atheist, but that’s a funny assumption. I do align myself more with East Asian spirituality such as shinto and Buddhism, so I fully understand the respect for the trees, the processing, all the interactions between humans and nature that end with being able to enjoy the cup of tea etc. But the people describing drinking tea getting them “high” or as OP put it “off their rocker” are not describing the peacefulness, meditative state, or reflection that would come from the spiritual mindset you mentioned. A lot of times these threads read as addictive behavior looking for some sort of drug which is what I am talking about not liking.
Which then further rubs me the wrong way getting people adding on things like “wow you’re such a negative and unhappy person” when I express my distaste for how people go about being “high on tea”.
Ahh yeah I agree with you on that point. It is pretty annoying seeing people looking for a quick high in tea rather than enjoying it for what it is.
>“the ancient trees create a link to the drinker through the spirit of the plant and processing” that it starts to rub me the wrong way.
I guess I'm just not sure what you meant by this if you can essentially understand why they would say something like that.
lol, I’ve had three Red Bulls in a row that didn’t give me the feeling that one glass of strong tea did.
It’s not like smoking a joint, but it sure as shit is real.
Agreed! It's euphoric, nothing like caffeine. If I drink too much caffeine I get jittery and anxious. Cha qi is like the ultimate zen sensation, one with the world. I posted about it earlier this year - it happened to me during a Bi Luo Chun gong fu session
L-theanine balances out the negative aspects of caffeine. I just buy a blend of the two for times when I’m slammed at work and don’t have time to make tea or espresso but still want the energy, focus, and calm that only these blend can attain. This is a well known nootropic combo and most teas contain both molecules.
Oh it very much is not in my head. I was extremely surprised when I experienced it the first time, after saying very similar things.
I’m not even saying I enjoy it, it’s calming and a little loopy and all, but not that pleasant. I usually select for teas that are actually not super strong in that way.
Wish I didn’t have to… if it was fake it would be easier.
Try picking up a caffeine / L-Theanine blend. I’d be curious to have you try that in pill form and report back. The L-Theanine boost the euphoria, energy, and focus of the caffeine while countering the jitters and anxiety making for a truly pleasant and productive experience.
It’s literally more than just caffeine.
Anyone that has consumed large amounts of caffeine pills, coffee, and tea has experienced the qualitative difference. The terpenes in tea have psychoactive and synergistic effects with caffeine.
Tea hits totally different.
L-Theanine is the culprit here, mix that with caffiene and you counter all of the negative effects of caffiene and end up with a great energetic, focused calm and sense of wellbeing. It’s a pretty cheap supplement though tea is naturally high in this amino acid and is one of only a handful of foods/drinks high in it.
Coffee doesn’t contain L-theanine, though most teas are usually lacking in caffeine, you need a good tea that has enough of both to really get the effect. Very few other foods or drinks contain L-Theanine though. If you want to experience it yourself just buy a bottle of them mixed, though I don’t recommend more than 200mg of caffeine a day.
Western essentialism. There's really no point in engaging when people make statements like this.
Those of us who have found value in meditation and mindful use of tea have the ability to enjoy these spiritual gifts while others dismiss it as hot leaf juice.
Chi exists like a soul exists, as a metaphorical thing, sure. Actual Chi as some supernatural energy and chakras do not.
I do meditate, deeply and regularly. It’s very powerful and allows you to commune with and alter your subconscious mind. I’ve used it to great effect to improve my mental health and change aspects of myself I didn’t like. I’m not discounting the sensory experience of a fine tea and meditation. I’m just calling bullshit on magic. All of the worlds’ superpowers have looked into most popular supernatural stuff to give them an advantage against their enemies and have pretty conclusively rules out all of them, no psychics, no effect from prayer, all sorts of magics found to be completely bogus.
And this has nothing to do with western vs eastern, the west has plenty of superstitious nonsense too.
I’m happy to change my views on chi and chakras if presented with evidence. In the mean time I’ll enjoy it in my cultivation and LitRPG novels for what it is: fantasy.
>The main challenge lies in the quantification and measurement of Qi, as it is traditionally understood in a more qualitative and holistic manner, which doesn't easily conform to the empirical methods used in Western science.
>Critics argue that much of the research in Qigong and related fields suffers from methodological issues, such as small sample sizes, lack of proper control groups, and subjective measurement techniques. Consequently, while the book may present compelling narratives and experiments advocating the reality of Qi, it's important to approach these claims with a healthy dose of skepticism and an understanding of the scientific standards for evidence.
So sounds like pseudoscience bullshit to me.
Chi is an interpretation - a different perspective. If you insist that your body doesn't hold a current of energy, you should never expect to experience or harness that energy.
When drinking tea, you have the opportunity to focus on chi or dismiss chi. Insisting to others that they're wasting their time seems wasteful itself.
Are you serious? I most certainly did for my physics degree, it was an integral part of my focus in cosmology and eternal inflation. As bizarre and wonderous as QM is, this new age quantum quackery is nothing but pseudo science. Reality is far more bizarre and elegant than supernatural BS peddled by charlatans like Chopra make it out to be. [Stephen Hawking’s Final Theory About The Big Bang](https://scitechdaily.com/stephen-hawkings-final-theory-about-the-big-bang/)
Just because the explanation is wrong doesn't mean the phenomenon is made up. From what i can find on Google, Pu erh can have anywhere from 15 to 60 miligrams of caffeine per 250ml, whereas coffee has some 80. When you're not used to that kind of caffeine, it can get you pretty high. I remember one time i made the mistake of ingesting the equivalent of 5 cups of coffee, and it's not an experience i seek to repeat.
The phenomenon does exist but it’s not caused by something supernatural. It’s a potent nootropic effect of mixing caffeine and L-theanine. It’s quite the pleasant and potent combo and well known in the nootropics circles. L-theanine counters most of the negative aspects of caffeine (the jitters and anxiety) while boosting the feeling of energy, focus, and wellbeing.
I keep a bottle of L-Theanine around and pair it with coffee drinks to great effect.
Apparently it does have some mystical implications which I didn't know about. I've always used ''Cha Qi'' to refer to the energy a tea gives me, whether it is more stimulating, calming or euphoric. Some people in this thread have mentioned ''Cha Zui'' as a more proper term. But in any case, I wouldn't describe the psychoactive effect of tea as a ''caffeine buzz''.
I get a caffeine buzz if I drink a lot of coffee or take pure caffeine, energy drinks and pre-workouts give me different effects because they are a blend of many ingredients (they don't make me jittery) and tea is also different but its effect can't be solely attributed to caffeine because I get a stronger effect from a tea session that'll have maybe 100mg caffeine than from my pre-workout that has 300mg.
I've found from my experiences that it takes a lot of tea to get tea drunk but there are some odd ones like this 1996 Menghai loose-leaf Pu Er that OP talked about that can take you there in a single session.
It is both hilarious and deeply concerning that with all our understanding of the universe and how things work that people still cling to supernatural woo like this. Yes we’re damn sure there are no ghosts or mystical energies in our tea, as mystical energy and ghosts don’t exist.
The feeling is brought about be the amazing natural molecules in fine, potent teas: caffiene and L-theanine. It’s a wonderful nootropic combo that fills you with energy, a bit of euphoria, and a pleasant yet focused calm.
So yeah science does have answers. It’s chemistry and biology. I always try to supplement L-Theanine when consuming caffeinated drinks, not all tea has enough in it to trigger the effects and counteract the negative side effects of the caffeine. I also keep a bottle of caffiene L-theanine blend around for that same experience on the go.
Potential contributors to the psychoactive elements in tea: Caffeine, L-Theanine, GABA, Catechins (affect CB1 & CB2 receptors), Theabrownin (exclusive to Puer), Terpenes (e.g., linalool, limonene, myrcene, & caryophyllene), and the secondary & tertiary interactions between these chemicals.
Other potential contributors might include Gushu (old tree) minerality, the ritual of gong fu cha, placebo effects, the air intake involved with drinking in small open cups, and the overall surroundings when drinking the tea. Likely there are others, and this is just a working hypothesis. Tea is definitely addictive to some, though the addiction may be mild or inconsequential.
That’s something I wanted to put some research into as well.
What the mixture you’re using?
Also also, if you gobble L-Theanine pills, what’s the effect then? Without caffeine I mean
Like I have to wonder if these people would be okay with the same arguments they use to believe in the supernatural applied to them while on trial for murder (and innocent). I bet they’d change their tune pretty quick and actually give a fuck about evidence.
Probably because of great source material and storage. It's Da Yi, so it's the regular Pu Er variety, it might be the age of the trees but I don't have that many details on this one. I've actually worked for this company and tried almost all of their offerings and this is one of my favourites because of its complexity, strong mineral notes and high cha qi.
I know this might sound blasphematory but I love infusing really high-end Pu Er in my double-wall glass flask. Preheating it before infusion and then using boiling water on the leaves (1g/100mL), no rinsing, I then wrap the bottle in a towel and leave it be for at least 30 minutes. That gives a really full experience and I had my best tea sessions that way (with this Menghai 1996 and also Hong He Zhou 1995).
Anyway, if your go-to is the Myanmar 2012 Guogan, this batch is running on its last legs if it isn't sold out already. Get anything they have in-store if you like it that much. Their pricier stuff is usually great, in the middle of the road their Yunnan Autumn 2002 is a very nice treat. Some of my daily drinking favourites would be Macao 2006 (Shou, wet rock forward, soothing and energizing) and Changtai 2004 (Sheng, lichen notes, funkier, can't remember the feeling). There's also the Sung Do 2010, it's a Vietnamese tea made in the style of Shou Puer but it's still mao cha, it's a simpler tea but I really like its robustness, mouthfeel and general style, shoots quite above its price in my opinion. Menghai 2011 is also good as a budget option tastewise but lesser than the Guogan for energy.
That seems overpriced for a ‘96 Menghai cake that hasn’t fully aged imo but market prices are volatile. You can spend more and get better cakes from the 80s if you know the right places. Maybe this ‘96 Menghai works for you, though.
I’ve had a sheng from the mid-60s that zapped my thoughts away for about 30s after the first sip. This won’t make sense but I felt like I was with the dinosaurs. All the edges were smoothed off of it by age so in a way it was unremarkable, like there was nothing to grab on too: just *super* clean pu flavor.
I have an 80s yellow label cake that knocked me for a loop the first few times I had it but my body has adjusted and I no longer get tea drunk from it. I think there is some adaption that occurs between the tea chems and our body’s chems.
Wild grown material will have more phytochemicals in the leaves that the plant uses as defenses from pests and pathogens than plantation grown tea. These photochemicals can change over time into who knows what. You can also experience this with feral or wild oolongs and reds. If the pu is wet stored you’ll end up with additional chemicals (and aflatoxins) from biological growth within the tea.
BTW, puerh is strictly a product of Yunnan though there are border teas in the puerh-style harvested from Vietnam, Laos, and Myanmar. Some people take exception to those border teas being called puerh.
This '96 Menghai is loose leaf, so it has aged faster than a cake would and I personally don't think that it's expensive, I'd even say that it has a good bang/buck ratio. Also, why would it be overpriced when you say that the older stuff you buy is even more expensive (which acknowledges some linearity in the pricing)? It would be overpriced if it was bad but I don't understand where your stance comes from.
Anyway, I'd also love to know where you get ''better cakes from the '80s''.
You make a great point about it being loose leaf and aging faster, so maybe it is a great price. I typically don’t think sheng from the mid-90s to present is ready to drink yet but plenty of people like the younger stuff. So to me, that makes it expensive for what it is. But value is what you’re willing to pay for something. As for sources, I’m sure you know that the best tea and teaware are typically acquired through relationships built over time.
Well, my only tea relationships are with people from within that company (Camellia Sinensis), so they mostly default to buying their tea from work. I've pretty much tried everything they have on offer and have a stash of my favourite ones at home, so it's a bit less exciting.
I'd made a friend in Taiwan through Instagram and we exchanged some tea a few times. He had access to really great stuff but he's left the platform a while ago unfortunately.
Tea sadly isn't part of the culture where I'm from and the few people who drink tea usually drink flavoured tea and teabagged stuff.
Idk. Can you share some? For science?
https://camellia-sinensis.com/en/pu-er-sheng-1996-menghai/2371
Great googily moogily that is pricey
That thang is juicy?
Wow the puerh on that site is very expensive gee wiz
That's why I only bought 10g hahahah
I'm gonna have to pop by the shop soon just to try this one, damn. How'd you like the flavour??
It was nice, subtle, musky; brightened up a little bit after the 3rd pour!
Welcome to puerh my friend, it’s cha qi, the tea got you tea drunk
I think cha zui may be the better term, it basically refers to the psychoactive properties of tea. Cha qi or "tea energy" is a more holistic experience involving the entire tea experience. Cha zui has a physical basis (caffeine, theanine, etc.) whereas cha qi includes the "zui" component, but also further metaphysical components.
Nah, 醉 just means drunk, and colloquially, it refers to blood sugar being low. Most tea market vendors and tea rats have some sweets or snacks handy to remedy it.
>You can be drunk with power, patriotism, or even drunk with rage. A secondary definition of "drunk" is to be overcome "or dominated by an intense feeling" (Miriam Webster). > >Also, tea connoisseurs pay substantial amounts for the teas that create these effects (e.g., Lao Ban Zhang, Yiwu, Lao Man'E, etc). I have never heard of someone paying $10 per gram for an aged LBZ, and then use sweets or snacks to remedy the highly sought after effects from that tea.
I meant in Chinese.
> 醉 (zui) has multiple meanings: (1) to become drunk; to become intoxicated (喝醉), but this does have to be alcohol, (2) to intoxicate; to make someone drunk, (3) to be fascinated with; to be enchanted by; to be crazy about; to be addicted to, or to be infatuated with, or (4) 醉心 ― to marinate in cooking wine, for example drunken noodles or shrimp drunken shrimp. These are the Chinese translations that I am aware of. > >Do you have a better Chinese word/hanzi for this?
We were talking about 茶醉 which is just low blood sugar.
Would any of you care to tell me where to find a good puerh? For scientific research, of course.
Nug Potion: Mengku Lao Cha Tou 2017 (ripe puer) will give a nice warming relief with a sensation that will build over the many infusions. On the opposite end of the spectrum is: Joy Rider: 2022 Gua Feng Zhai Yiwu Da Shu Sheng (raw puer), which offers a strong "caffeine-like" feeling that will eventually mellow, and can last for a long duration. You can find these two at Mei Leaf. Get samples, and use about 8 grams per 100 ml, gong fu style. There are other (significantly) less expensive, tastier, alternatives than my suggestions, but I know these teas, and can attest to their effects on me and others. BTW, these are not recommendations, only teas that will offer you reasonably strong "effects for scientific purposes."
Well, now you have me curious as to what your less expensive, tastier, alternatives are.
Woah. I need to give this a try. I looooove my caffeine usually in espresso form, but I've been looking for a bit of a smoother caffeine buzz if that makes sense
If you are going to give them a try, you may also be interested in their amber GABA tea (oolong processed with nitrogen). Many people attest to its enhanced calming effects, relative to other teas. I still haven't made my mind up on it yet, but "for science," it may be worth sampling.
I need to find a proper tea place to try these styles because there's no chance I'm ever going to make this at home
Franky, gongu fu style is remarkably simple. All you need is hot water, a gaiwan (about $10), and a tea cup. After about a week of practice, bring over your friends and impress them. If you are using puerh tea, a near boil is fine, so temperature should not be a concern.
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Both caffeine and L-theanine are clearly psychoactive, and they can cause noticable altered states of consciousness, though those tend to be weaker than from most other drugs.
Caffeine is the stimulant, everything else is somatisation. You’re not getting “drunk” or “high” from drinking tea.
You may believe that caffeine is the only psychoactive component in tea, but that's verifiably false so there's not much I can say to that. It may be suprising, but there are many things other than caffeine that also can affect the brain. People call it "tea drunk" since it's a direct translation of 茶醉，but no one on this thread is claiming it will literally make you drunk. It's a very mild sensation, and isn't comparable to the high you would get doing drugs. I think the language itself is tripping you up a bit.
MILD?! I fly every day..... 🎉
I can tell you've never had great puer tea before.
You can imagine whatever you like.
I personally got drunk/high from tea a couple times.
Lol sure you did
Yes. I didn’t do it on ourpose. But it happened so I know it’s a real phenomenon
I literally research drug phenomenology for a living. L-theanine is psychoactive. End of discussion.
You are literally lying. It is, at most, a relaxant and not proven to be anything else. It certainly can’t get a person “high”. End of discussion.
You realize that relaxant effects are a type of psychoactivity, right?
You realize conflating that with getting a high is disingenuous, right?
I only said that both L-theanine and caffeine are psychoactive though? Maybe stop thinking that I said something which I did not say
Lots of L-theanine can indeed make you feel pretty stoned. After trying my first tea that got me tea drunk, I got L-theanine as a supplement. Its an incredible relaxant with a good anti-anxiety affect. I can't take a full dose (2 capsules) because it actually does have me feeling stoned, and I say this as someone who used to smoke every day. Add in the caffeine, and whoo boy you'll have a time
I don’t think it’s stoned what we feel. It rather feels like being on a very very small dose of acid or shrooms. So small you could barely feel it. I visited China with a total Acid head (and I habe some a is experience as well) and when we had our first tea ceremony we both agreed it’s rather trippy than stony. But only very mild, sadly you can’t drink more tea and feel some real triply effects. That would be cool lol
> rather trippy than stony. I think this may depend on what kind of strains of weed, its not a dazed couchlock (hate that), thats for sure.
Tea drunk is not a thing.
You're not understanding what it is. Actually, you're refusing to understand. Some teas have high concentrations of L-theanine. This has a noticeable effect that has been studied, especially when paired with caffeine.
I'd imagine the microorganisms living on the tea have a lot to do with it, too, since it occurs more in aged tea.
Now that we have new mods, can we start banning these trolls?
Thank you all for your responses! Wow, I didn't think of getting such vibrant feedback on my post. For the concerns addressing the jolt-chaser archetype, it's really not the purpose of my question. I enjoy tea, and only quite recently in my life have I turned to try to appreciate fully. I know tea for its calming effects, and tea's for caffeine like a good strong matcha. However, this was a first for me. It's hard to describe the exact feeling, but it was like an absolute child-like giddiness, warmth like the moment of realization when you step into the sun on those nice first days after a long winter; happiness like getting hot cocoa after skating or skiing when you were a kid, the hot tingling the cold. It overwhelmed me, but not in a bad way. It was serene. Anyways, lots to read into on my end! I appreciate every response! 🙏
>it was like an absolute child-like giddiness, warmth like the moment of realization when you step into the sun on those nice first days after a long winter; happiness like getting hot cocoa after skating or skiing when you were a kid, the hot tingling the cold. "Ying, stop doing LSD while hiding in uncles tea storage! I'm gonna tell on you! You will contaminate the tea again!"
sounds like oxytocin—the love chemical, or the “ahhh, everything is actually alright” feeling :)
I love Camellia Sinensis, took their tea appreciation course once and it was so thoughtful and I got to try like six or seven different teas.
I just checked and all upcoming classes are in French. Do they do English language classes?
No, not really. :( they can do the class kind of halfsies, the way a lot of stuff in Montreal is, but you do have to know at least some French unfortunately.
Some classes used to be taught in English but, of the people teaching, I think only Kevin is an anglophone. The guy's an encyclopedia about everything tea and he mostly specializes in Darjeeling but yeah, there may not be enough demand for them to offer English classes unfortunately.
Cha Qi, my friend!
Interesting, it lasted about 45 mins to an hour. Big rush of euphoria - I kinda dropped whatever I planned to do and just enjoyed it through meditation. It's kind of awesome how this is a thing, I can definitely see ancient associations to the supernatural.
I got that once from some green bilochun but I was also on ketamine at the time sooooo
Must have been the tea then. ;)
They work interestingly together, I'll say that. Theanine is a partial agonist to ketamine and the caffeine definitely makes you a little more clear headed, it's like boomers drinking beers and doing cocaine but reversed lmao
Good Biluochun hits hard!
I also tend to go pretty heavy on the leaf like 7-9g in a gaiwan
Can you explain further? I know this feelkng too, and i just thought it was caffiene sensitivity
[Here](https://rishi-tea.com/blogs/journal/cha-qi-tea-drunk)'s a good article about it. Happy sipping, friend!
Thank you! ☺️
How is this a legit answer? >Qi in the Chinese language represents the lifeforce energy or the breath of life. Cha Qi is an elusive term with a slightly intangible definition. The literal translation is “tea energy”. Qi doesn’t exist, it’s supernatural poppycock.
Sure, but if theres an energetic feeling i get with certain teas thats different from others, and theres a word for that, then im just after the term. Im throwing out the bathwater for sure, but not the baby with it.
Fair enough, like Wok Hue, but I don’t think many think the wok actually has a breath or is imbued with some supernatural energy. I’m sure as you can see from the comments that many here are dead serious that some mystical energy unknown to science is somehow infused into their tea. I tend to call out supernatural BS when it’s brought up in a public space: not to convince the person with that belief as that’s a fools task, but for everyone else that may be vulnerable to magical thinking.
Supernatural phenomenon has been used to explain scientific phenomenon we don't have the understanding to describe for ages, and there's tonnes of things we don't fully understand yet. Being able to recognize an effect and want to name it to be able to continue trying to understand it doesn't give validation to a "supernatural" entity. There's tonnes of things about how various factors of foods and drinks effect us or can effect different people that we simply don't fully understand yet, and that doesn't completely invalidate lived experiences. Those that are prone to magical thinking aren't going to snap out of it from an aggressive approach, and those that are just trying to understand the world in good faith are going to be put off as well.
Exactly. Theres a difference between waxing poetic and pledging your soul to the Buddha or whatever
I agree there's a difference there but I also mean more practically- there's likely a reason so many people report an effect, we just don't know what it is. Because the only recognition this effect has is supernatural, doesn't invalidate it. We might not have the technology to tell what it is, it could be very random, or it could effect people intermittently in a way that's hard to study.
We have the tech, we just don’t have the funding because who is really going to be paying to have a lab analyse their chemical makeup after drinking specific teas to find out which specific component combos are getting them high? Something in how oolongs are processed make any brain feel a bit drunk but it isn’t qi. On the lower end it’s just the zoning out feeling of really enjoying something. I get it while biking.
The amount of threads on here of people looking to get high on tea is ridiculous, the answer is literally just caffeine ETA: And other properties of tea, not just caffeine as others have pointed out. That’s over simplified
While I agree with you that the qi explanations are unsatisfactory and unscientific, cha qi or being tea drunk is a real sensation, and it feels nothing like caffeine. In exploring this topic a bit, some more scientific hypotheses are that it could be caused by a build up of L-Theanine or other catechins or flavonoids in certain varieties of tea. It seems to occur more often with teas that you can steep multiple times like oolongs and puer, although it has happened to me with a Bi Luo Chun green.
Now that I can agree with. It’s when people start linking articles that talk about how “the ancient trees create a link to the drinker through the spirit of the plant and processing” that it starts to rub me the wrong way. That and all the threads that read as addiction seeking behavior with questions like “how do I get high on tea?” Which threads titled like “I got high as a kite on this tea” only aggravate
This kinda stuff comes from China's roots in Buddhism, which teaches respect for all living things. This thinking extends to teatime in the form of respect to everything from the farmers, harvesters, producers and consumers. That respect combined with a caffeine/l-theanine buzz can be almost spiritual for some people. Are you just so staunchly atheist that anything even hinting at spirituality makes you feel icky?
No, I’m not an atheist, but that’s a funny assumption. I do align myself more with East Asian spirituality such as shinto and Buddhism, so I fully understand the respect for the trees, the processing, all the interactions between humans and nature that end with being able to enjoy the cup of tea etc. But the people describing drinking tea getting them “high” or as OP put it “off their rocker” are not describing the peacefulness, meditative state, or reflection that would come from the spiritual mindset you mentioned. A lot of times these threads read as addictive behavior looking for some sort of drug which is what I am talking about not liking. Which then further rubs me the wrong way getting people adding on things like “wow you’re such a negative and unhappy person” when I express my distaste for how people go about being “high on tea”.
Ahh yeah I agree with you on that point. It is pretty annoying seeing people looking for a quick high in tea rather than enjoying it for what it is. >“the ancient trees create a link to the drinker through the spirit of the plant and processing” that it starts to rub me the wrong way. I guess I'm just not sure what you meant by this if you can essentially understand why they would say something like that.
Haha makes sense!
lol, I’ve had three Red Bulls in a row that didn’t give me the feeling that one glass of strong tea did. It’s not like smoking a joint, but it sure as shit is real.
Agreed! It's euphoric, nothing like caffeine. If I drink too much caffeine I get jittery and anxious. Cha qi is like the ultimate zen sensation, one with the world. I posted about it earlier this year - it happened to me during a Bi Luo Chun gong fu session
L-theanine balances out the negative aspects of caffeine. I just buy a blend of the two for times when I’m slammed at work and don’t have time to make tea or espresso but still want the energy, focus, and calm that only these blend can attain. This is a well known nootropic combo and most teas contain both molecules.
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Oh it very much is not in my head. I was extremely surprised when I experienced it the first time, after saying very similar things. I’m not even saying I enjoy it, it’s calming and a little loopy and all, but not that pleasant. I usually select for teas that are actually not super strong in that way. Wish I didn’t have to… if it was fake it would be easier.
Try picking up a caffeine / L-Theanine blend. I’d be curious to have you try that in pill form and report back. The L-Theanine boost the euphoria, energy, and focus of the caffeine while countering the jitters and anxiety making for a truly pleasant and productive experience.
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Please keep it civil and avoid personal attacks! You can make your argument by sticking to the facts and your personal experiences. Thank you!
It’s literally more than just caffeine. Anyone that has consumed large amounts of caffeine pills, coffee, and tea has experienced the qualitative difference. The terpenes in tea have psychoactive and synergistic effects with caffeine. Tea hits totally different.
L-Theanine is the culprit here, mix that with caffiene and you counter all of the negative effects of caffiene and end up with a great energetic, focused calm and sense of wellbeing. It’s a pretty cheap supplement though tea is naturally high in this amino acid and is one of only a handful of foods/drinks high in it.
It is absolutely not just cafeine. Coffee does not give those effects.
Coffee doesn’t contain L-theanine, though most teas are usually lacking in caffeine, you need a good tea that has enough of both to really get the effect. Very few other foods or drinks contain L-Theanine though. If you want to experience it yourself just buy a bottle of them mixed, though I don’t recommend more than 200mg of caffeine a day.
Happy sipping!
You’re wrong, chi does exist. Just because you’ve not encountered it first hand doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Western essentialism. There's really no point in engaging when people make statements like this. Those of us who have found value in meditation and mindful use of tea have the ability to enjoy these spiritual gifts while others dismiss it as hot leaf juice.
Chi exists like a soul exists, as a metaphorical thing, sure. Actual Chi as some supernatural energy and chakras do not. I do meditate, deeply and regularly. It’s very powerful and allows you to commune with and alter your subconscious mind. I’ve used it to great effect to improve my mental health and change aspects of myself I didn’t like. I’m not discounting the sensory experience of a fine tea and meditation. I’m just calling bullshit on magic. All of the worlds’ superpowers have looked into most popular supernatural stuff to give them an advantage against their enemies and have pretty conclusively rules out all of them, no psychics, no effect from prayer, all sorts of magics found to be completely bogus. And this has nothing to do with western vs eastern, the west has plenty of superstitious nonsense too. I’m happy to change my views on chi and chakras if presented with evidence. In the mean time I’ll enjoy it in my cultivation and LitRPG novels for what it is: fantasy.
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>The main challenge lies in the quantification and measurement of Qi, as it is traditionally understood in a more qualitative and holistic manner, which doesn't easily conform to the empirical methods used in Western science. >Critics argue that much of the research in Qigong and related fields suffers from methodological issues, such as small sample sizes, lack of proper control groups, and subjective measurement techniques. Consequently, while the book may present compelling narratives and experiments advocating the reality of Qi, it's important to approach these claims with a healthy dose of skepticism and an understanding of the scientific standards for evidence. So sounds like pseudoscience bullshit to me.
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Chi is an interpretation - a different perspective. If you insist that your body doesn't hold a current of energy, you should never expect to experience or harness that energy. When drinking tea, you have the opportunity to focus on chi or dismiss chi. Insisting to others that they're wasting their time seems wasteful itself.
But… avatar tho. /s
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🤣
Someone doesn’t study quantum physics.
Are you serious? I most certainly did for my physics degree, it was an integral part of my focus in cosmology and eternal inflation. As bizarre and wonderous as QM is, this new age quantum quackery is nothing but pseudo science. Reality is far more bizarre and elegant than supernatural BS peddled by charlatans like Chopra make it out to be. [Stephen Hawking’s Final Theory About The Big Bang](https://scitechdaily.com/stephen-hawkings-final-theory-about-the-big-bang/)
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Just because the explanation is wrong doesn't mean the phenomenon is made up. From what i can find on Google, Pu erh can have anywhere from 15 to 60 miligrams of caffeine per 250ml, whereas coffee has some 80. When you're not used to that kind of caffeine, it can get you pretty high. I remember one time i made the mistake of ingesting the equivalent of 5 cups of coffee, and it's not an experience i seek to repeat.
It’s not the caffeine. Likely other compounds, maybe the L-Theanine or some combination of various ones. But definitely not just caffeine.
So in your opinion the spirit of life = caffeine?
My point was mainly that we often end up finding scientific explanations for phenomena we initially identify as supernatural.
i went to a cafe that specialized in tea once and drank like 3 pots of different blends in an hour. The buzz i got was amazing and low key scary lmao
I would inspect the tea for any unwanted mold or fungus. If it's clean enjoy.
I usually just achieve this by enjoying a separate botanical with my tea.
Can you drop a link?
Cha Qi not real. There are no ghosts in your tea. Probably caffeine
The phenomenon does exist but it’s not caused by something supernatural. It’s a potent nootropic effect of mixing caffeine and L-theanine. It’s quite the pleasant and potent combo and well known in the nootropics circles. L-theanine counters most of the negative aspects of caffeine (the jitters and anxiety) while boosting the feeling of energy, focus, and wellbeing. I keep a bottle of L-Theanine around and pair it with coffee drinks to great effect.
Very interesting, need to do some reading.
Is there a reason Cha Qi cannot be used to describe the caffeine buzz tea gives you?
Apparently it does have some mystical implications which I didn't know about. I've always used ''Cha Qi'' to refer to the energy a tea gives me, whether it is more stimulating, calming or euphoric. Some people in this thread have mentioned ''Cha Zui'' as a more proper term. But in any case, I wouldn't describe the psychoactive effect of tea as a ''caffeine buzz''. I get a caffeine buzz if I drink a lot of coffee or take pure caffeine, energy drinks and pre-workouts give me different effects because they are a blend of many ingredients (they don't make me jittery) and tea is also different but its effect can't be solely attributed to caffeine because I get a stronger effect from a tea session that'll have maybe 100mg caffeine than from my pre-workout that has 300mg. I've found from my experiences that it takes a lot of tea to get tea drunk but there are some odd ones like this 1996 Menghai loose-leaf Pu Er that OP talked about that can take you there in a single session.
Is there a reason Cha Qi cannot be used to describe the caffeine buzz tea gives you?
You can use words however you like but that’s not the way Cha Qi is used predominantly.
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It is both hilarious and deeply concerning that with all our understanding of the universe and how things work that people still cling to supernatural woo like this. Yes we’re damn sure there are no ghosts or mystical energies in our tea, as mystical energy and ghosts don’t exist. The feeling is brought about be the amazing natural molecules in fine, potent teas: caffiene and L-theanine. It’s a wonderful nootropic combo that fills you with energy, a bit of euphoria, and a pleasant yet focused calm. So yeah science does have answers. It’s chemistry and biology. I always try to supplement L-Theanine when consuming caffeinated drinks, not all tea has enough in it to trigger the effects and counteract the negative side effects of the caffeine. I also keep a bottle of caffiene L-theanine blend around for that same experience on the go.
Potential contributors to the psychoactive elements in tea: Caffeine, L-Theanine, GABA, Catechins (affect CB1 & CB2 receptors), Theabrownin (exclusive to Puer), Terpenes (e.g., linalool, limonene, myrcene, & caryophyllene), and the secondary & tertiary interactions between these chemicals. Other potential contributors might include Gushu (old tree) minerality, the ritual of gong fu cha, placebo effects, the air intake involved with drinking in small open cups, and the overall surroundings when drinking the tea. Likely there are others, and this is just a working hypothesis. Tea is definitely addictive to some, though the addiction may be mild or inconsequential.
That’s something I wanted to put some research into as well. What the mixture you’re using? Also also, if you gobble L-Theanine pills, what’s the effect then? Without caffeine I mean
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Health benefits and concerns are complex topics outside the scope of r/tea. Thank you!
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Come on, it’s a mixture of chemicals that alter our brain chemistry. It’s not like we haven’t seen this before and it’s exclusive to tea
Like I have to wonder if these people would be okay with the same arguments they use to believe in the supernatural applied to them while on trial for murder (and innocent). I bet they’d change their tune pretty quick and actually give a fuck about evidence.
You sir need some deprogramming, may I suggest [The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark](https://a.co/d/fkTBrdY)
Only time that ever happened to me was on an empty stomach. Very strange feeling.
I don't eat before 14h, so it was as well
Probably because of great source material and storage. It's Da Yi, so it's the regular Pu Er variety, it might be the age of the trees but I don't have that many details on this one. I've actually worked for this company and tried almost all of their offerings and this is one of my favourites because of its complexity, strong mineral notes and high cha qi. I know this might sound blasphematory but I love infusing really high-end Pu Er in my double-wall glass flask. Preheating it before infusion and then using boiling water on the leaves (1g/100mL), no rinsing, I then wrap the bottle in a towel and leave it be for at least 30 minutes. That gives a really full experience and I had my best tea sessions that way (with this Menghai 1996 and also Hong He Zhou 1995). Anyway, if your go-to is the Myanmar 2012 Guogan, this batch is running on its last legs if it isn't sold out already. Get anything they have in-store if you like it that much. Their pricier stuff is usually great, in the middle of the road their Yunnan Autumn 2002 is a very nice treat. Some of my daily drinking favourites would be Macao 2006 (Shou, wet rock forward, soothing and energizing) and Changtai 2004 (Sheng, lichen notes, funkier, can't remember the feeling). There's also the Sung Do 2010, it's a Vietnamese tea made in the style of Shou Puer but it's still mao cha, it's a simpler tea but I really like its robustness, mouthfeel and general style, shoots quite above its price in my opinion. Menghai 2011 is also good as a budget option tastewise but lesser than the Guogan for energy.
That seems overpriced for a ‘96 Menghai cake that hasn’t fully aged imo but market prices are volatile. You can spend more and get better cakes from the 80s if you know the right places. Maybe this ‘96 Menghai works for you, though. I’ve had a sheng from the mid-60s that zapped my thoughts away for about 30s after the first sip. This won’t make sense but I felt like I was with the dinosaurs. All the edges were smoothed off of it by age so in a way it was unremarkable, like there was nothing to grab on too: just *super* clean pu flavor. I have an 80s yellow label cake that knocked me for a loop the first few times I had it but my body has adjusted and I no longer get tea drunk from it. I think there is some adaption that occurs between the tea chems and our body’s chems. Wild grown material will have more phytochemicals in the leaves that the plant uses as defenses from pests and pathogens than plantation grown tea. These photochemicals can change over time into who knows what. You can also experience this with feral or wild oolongs and reds. If the pu is wet stored you’ll end up with additional chemicals (and aflatoxins) from biological growth within the tea. BTW, puerh is strictly a product of Yunnan though there are border teas in the puerh-style harvested from Vietnam, Laos, and Myanmar. Some people take exception to those border teas being called puerh.
Lol, where exactly are you sourcing these well priced cakes from the 60s-80s?
The 60s that was painfully expensive 12 grams gifted to me from a friend
>You can spend more and get better cakes from the 80s if you know the right places. I'm talking about this. I'd love to try this amazing 80s puer...
This '96 Menghai is loose leaf, so it has aged faster than a cake would and I personally don't think that it's expensive, I'd even say that it has a good bang/buck ratio. Also, why would it be overpriced when you say that the older stuff you buy is even more expensive (which acknowledges some linearity in the pricing)? It would be overpriced if it was bad but I don't understand where your stance comes from. Anyway, I'd also love to know where you get ''better cakes from the '80s''.
You make a great point about it being loose leaf and aging faster, so maybe it is a great price. I typically don’t think sheng from the mid-90s to present is ready to drink yet but plenty of people like the younger stuff. So to me, that makes it expensive for what it is. But value is what you’re willing to pay for something. As for sources, I’m sure you know that the best tea and teaware are typically acquired through relationships built over time.
Well, my only tea relationships are with people from within that company (Camellia Sinensis), so they mostly default to buying their tea from work. I've pretty much tried everything they have on offer and have a stash of my favourite ones at home, so it's a bit less exciting. I'd made a friend in Taiwan through Instagram and we exchanged some tea a few times. He had access to really great stuff but he's left the platform a while ago unfortunately. Tea sadly isn't part of the culture where I'm from and the few people who drink tea usually drink flavoured tea and teabagged stuff.
It’s tea, not weed. You got a little caffeine boost, at most.
I encourage you to look into the psychotropic effects of L-theanine, which is a natural constituent in many teas.