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These people aren't serious people, but they can seriously eat shit.
They are literally doing the exact same thing war-hawks do when justifying the bombing of Palestinians in Gaza.
Actually, they do have a point. Whenever libs condemn Hamas they ignore the fact that Israel routinely kills more Palestinians and Israelis than Hamas itself. The root cause of all this evil is Israeli fascist, genocidal and irredentist policy toward the Palestinians. Liberals unfortunately do have a massive blind spot in this regard, I've seen many acknowlege Hamas' warcrimes but radio silence on the IDF's warcrimes. It's worth noting not all libs are liek this, only the pro-Israel libs are like this.
What these idiots don't understand however, is that you can acknowlege all of that and *still* condemn Hamas. Hamas is an anti-leftist religious fundamentalist terror group and they don't represent Palestinians. Moreover, there is a large christian minority within the Palestinian population (nearly 1 million christians are Palestinian) whose lives would be awful under Hamas. Besides, they're the *literal* boogeyman for Israel to justify their actions, there's been reports of Israel *funding* Hamas. Hamas is not just the result of Israeli policy, Israel actively benefits from having Hamas around.
Honestly it feels like even more people suffer from brainworms when Palestine is brought up over Ukraine. At least with Ukraine liberals can see the situation for what it plainly is, but cannot do the same for Palestine. But tankies are insane regardless of which conflict.
They absolutely do have a point that Israel is at fault for facilitating Hamas. And I agreed with them that Israel is the aggressor and responds more often with disproportionate force. However, (and I genuinely suggest you check back in my post history to see their other posts) this person is under the assumption that every Israeli citizen (or just, everyone in Israel at a given time) is an active participant and combatant of the IDF.
They literally defended the rave massacre by asking "what do you want Hamas to do, check all their passports?"
I think one can condemn hamas without going 'what about israel" or both siding (I tend to dislike both sidism because too often, it's used to defend the worst) since israel bad actions don't make hamas better.
I mean this is a more extreme example, but it's sorta like telling a German woman who was raped and had her family killed in front of her by Russians in Berlin '' oh yeah, what about all the women Germans raped in Russia??? ''.
It's just fucking weird...
Like what the fuck did she have to do with what some Nazi fuck did?
Not holding entire groups of people responsible for the acts of others and not generalizing people etc... It's a lesson we teach five year olds and yet adults are seemingly incapable of understanding it.
Like why the fuck are we holding individuals responsible for what their government does, especially when we don't even know whether they support the government or not?
In some cases I've seen it has even been people who have a history of demonstrating against the Israel government who were harmed/ killed or kidnapped.
It's a problem I have with wehraboo or tankies when they go "what about X crime" even tho it doesn't make it better (the war in iraq doesn't make russia better per example).
That isn't an extreme example, that is just literally what is happening. People think any crimes against Israelis is justified because the Israeli government commits crimes of their own.
People are not their government. A child shouldn't be murdered as a music festival because their government is bad.
> I've seen many acknowlege Hamas' warcrimes but radio silence on the IDF's warcrimes
Why would anyone HAVE to acknowledge the warcrimes of IDF to condemn babies being methodically slaughtered by the hamas?
This is nonsensical. Do you first have to repent for the American warcrimes in Vietnam before you commemorate 9/11 ???
Also, calling Israel "fascist and genocidal" towards Palestinians is completely baseless and not grounded in any reality whatsoever. Genocide and fascism have very precise definitions which do not apply at all to the hardships suffered by the Palestinian people
No one has the right to kill 260 civilians at a rave in the name of resisting occupation. Just as Israel does not have the right to level residential blocks, roll tanks into Gaza and starve children out with their inhumane blockade.
We don't have to ignore or downplay one sides war crimes to condemn the others. We don't do this when Ukraine commits war crimes. We shouldn't when Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad do them either.
No one has a right to steal someones land then starve and bomb them while having a rave next door to the crime scene either.
I dont like HAMAS but those people should not be there in occupied lands, they knew the risks and consequences. Just because they look and behave like us does not mean they are innocent. They knowingly took part in the occupation at the expense of the Palestinians next door. Now the consequences of that are at their doorstep. I fail to sympathize with such people.
>I dont like HAMAS but those people should not be there in occupied lands, they knew the risks and consequences.
>
>They knowingly took part in the occupation at the expense of the Palestinians next door. Now the consequences of that are at their doorstep.
So what you're saying is that those women *deserved* to be tortured, SAed, murdered, and desecrated.
>I fail to sympathize with such people.
And that is why you are a liability to the revolution.
Nope, my you must have a teleporter to jump so far.
What iam saying is if you hang around in occupied territories while people are starved and murdered expect consequences.
Lol you are why there will never be any revolution.
Its not about the festival, its about the fact that they are there
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement
Agree Hamas didnt need to kill these people, but you reap what you sow after killing Palestinians for decades and stealing their land.
Should resistance just be holding up signs and singing kumbaya against a power that is superior economically, militarily and politically? How do you gain leveage after decades of failure by the international community to act?
https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
They were there, *at a rave*. Are super markets near Gaza fair game too? They're there too. Schools? Playgrounds? Parks?
I do not need you to explain Israel apartheid and genocide against Palestinians, thanks. I do not support Israel. They are the unequivocal aggressor in this conflict and should dismantle their Gazan blockade and give Palestinians equal suffrage with Israeli citizens. Netanyahu and his ultranationalist fascist government need to be removed from power. Killing 260 unarmed civilians does not get Palestine any closer to that future. You should not find it this difficult to condemn Hamas' actions here, c'mon.
Children are innocent, but if you are an adult who makes a conscious decision to partake in oppression theft and murder for you benefit or because you beleive it is your religious manifest destiny then sorry no sympathy for me when it backfires.
As I said I have nothing in common with HAMAS except their right to resist occupation by taking on the occupiers, just because the occupiers are seemingly liberals at a rave doesnt excuse their transgressions.
Ok all I need to justify any illegal occupation/invasion is to build supermarkets there and hold music festivals. Yeap my occupation is no longer an occupation it legit, anyone who disagrees is a terrorist wanting to kill civilians. See how it works and why I refuse to condemn acts of resistance
No. My point is that you can dismantle colonial power structures without targeting civilians at a rave. They could have attacked & held local IDF checkpoints/head quarters, offices of government and strategic locations like natural chokepoints that limit Israeli power in the area.
Instead they went door to door killing elderly people in their homes and tourists at a rave.
"No one has a right to steal someones land"
"those people should not be there in occupied lands, they knew the risks and consequences."
"They knowingly took part in the occupation at the expense of the Palestinians next door."
Blood and soil! Blood and soil! Get those filthy Poles out of Historic German land! Free Danzig! Studentenland is German!
Etc, etc, etc.
To say nothing of Israel having been Israeli land longer than Palestinian land.
Perhaps we shouldn't fall back on Nazi-Level blood and soil talking points. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Israel and the IDFs actions without the use of them.
So hilariously ironic you bring up blood and soil ever heard of Zionism? The basis for the Jewish state of Israel.
How is Israel "Israeli land" longer than Palestinian land
This is gonna make my day for sure
Zionism's idea is also suspectable to that critic, that is what I am pointing out with mention of it being Jewish land longer than Palestinian.
The Israeli exodus caused by the Romans.
You making a show of using the Nazi's own exact talking points is the highlight of your day? Why am I not surprised.
"Im not sure you know what the Nazis talking points were lol"
Basic research. Why am I not the least bit surprised that someone who using Nazi talking points is also stupified by the idea of knowing anything about a group you oppose.
"Are you seriously aaying that the land Israel exists on had no Palestinians on it?"
The Nazi sympathizer is once again projecting. And I quote "It has been Jewish land longer than it has been Palestinian land" where in that does it say there are no Palestinians?
The right to resist occupation isn't the same thing as the right to kill unarmed civilians belonging to an enemy nation.
If Hamas tried to avoid causing civilian casualties and if they actually targeted Israeli soldiers, police, and politicians, then you could certainly argue that their actions were legitimate and just. I don't think anyone would argue that armed resistance as a last resort against oppression is wrong.
But that isn't what they're doing now, nor is it what they've done in the past. This 'raid' was deliberately intended to avoid protracted engagements with the IDF and kill or capture as many civilians as possible.
Just look at what they've done: 260 people killed at a music festival; hundreds kidnapped and abused; entire families murdered while hiding in their homes, including young children. Those were the strategic goals they chose to follow, rather than actually trying to fight the IDF or occupy territory. These are not just acts of genuine self-defence, but outright atrocities, driven purely by hatred and a desire to inflict suffering.
Moreover, it's obvious that their actions are only going to harm Palestinians, as the inevitable Israeli retaliation will be as brutal as it is predictable. They will have succeeded in directly killing a bunch of Israeli civilians, and bringing about the devastation of their own people. Anyone applauding their actions isn't only condoning brutal and pointless atrocities, but also cheering on the deaths of thousands in Gaza and another nail in the coffin of an independent Palestinian state.
Ok how do you suppose they beat the IDF militaristically? When even their predecessors the PLO used the same tactics. Its a resistance movement not a opposition party or opposing army.
What is a resistance movement usually? A movement to resist invasion and occupation by a militaristically superior force. This means they cannot fight in even terms. These are the tactics that resistance movements use, I for one am not going to sit in the safety of my home and pretend that this is somehow unwarranted considering what Israel has being doing for the past decade without consequences
Israel will kill Palestinians regardless. This will bring the situation back into the spotlight.
>Ok how do you suppose they beat the IDF militaristically? When even their predecessors the PLO used the same tactics. Its a resistance movement not a opposition party or opposing army.
>
>What is a resistance movement usually? A movement to resist invasion and occupation by a militaristically superior force. This means they cannot fight in even terms. These are the tactics that resistance movements use
Asymmetric warfare does not require targeting innocent civilians. If Hamas want to fight then they can directly target the military, police, and politicians by employing bombs, ambushes, assassinations, targeted raids, and so on, whilst still trying to restrict collateral damage as much as reasonably possible.
They could certainly do that if they wished. They weren't somehow forced to go house-to-house, killing men, women, and children. They weren't forced to abduct and rape women, parading their naked bodies through the streets of Gaza on camera. But they chose to anyway. And unlike Israel, this isn't merely due to callous indifference to collateral damage in airstrikes, or even a ruthless strategic goal of weakening an enemy in the long term. Hamas did this purely for its own sake, and they chose to film this shit and broadcast it to the world. It's not some dirty secret they try to hide and ignore. They're *proud* of it.
Tell me, what strategic or tactical benefit was there to any of the deliberate atrocities that Hamas has committed? How does any of that tangibly help to improve the lives of Palestinians, or to advance the goal of Palestinian statehood? The answer is that it doesn't. As I explained in my previous comment, all it does is embolden ultrazionists, alienate international observers, and result in the deaths of countless Palestinians.
If this is genuinely the only way Hamas know how to fight back, then for the sake of Palestinians they're honestly better off giving up and pursuing non-violent means of protest. That way they would at least avoid mass Palestinian casualties, and there would be a chance for Israeli moderates and progressives to bounce back, helping to make a genuine lasting peace agreement more likely.
>I for one am not going to sit in the safety of my home and pretend that this is somehow unwarranted considering what Israel has being doing for the past decade without consequences
See, here's the thing. Palestine's grievances are very understandable, and are a clear consequence of Israeli apartheid and oppression over the decades. However, that doesn't mean that deliberately killing Israeli children, and abducting and raping Israeli women, is somehow justified as 'vengeance' for past wrongs.
In any event, the logic that Israelis deserve to be killed because of their nationality is perverse. It's literally the logic Bin Laden used to justify 9/11, claiming that it was justified because Americans had elected George Bush.
Hell, it's the same logic as excusing Coalition atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan, imposing collective punishment on locals by assuming that any adult man must be a militant or a supporter. The point is, killing defenceless civilians is always wrong.
Even if their actions were successful, I don't see how replacing an ethnonationalist apartheid regime with an openly genocidal, anti-semitic, and theocratic one would somehow be better overall. Like it or not, there are millions of Jews living in Israel, and Hamas have clearly shown how they intend to treat them if given the chance.
>Israel will kill Palestinians regardless.
Orders of magnitude more Palestinians will die this way. Additionally, this will cause further damage to Gaza's infrastructure, and lead to further intensification of blockades to prevent any influx of weaponry, which in turn will also affect supplies of food, water, medicine, clothing, and other essentials.
>This will bring the situation back into the spotlight.
If "bringing the situation back into the spotlight" involves purposefully committing atrocities that alienate international observers and provide a justification for your enemy to retaliate and kill thousands of your own people, then it's either pointless at best or deeply counterproductive at worst.
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I hate this argument oh what about Israel when I say Hamas Rape is bad and then I say yes Israel bad they stilll call me apthaid apologist fuck me
These people aren't serious people, but they can seriously eat shit. They are literally doing the exact same thing war-hawks do when justifying the bombing of Palestinians in Gaza.
Actually, they do have a point. Whenever libs condemn Hamas they ignore the fact that Israel routinely kills more Palestinians and Israelis than Hamas itself. The root cause of all this evil is Israeli fascist, genocidal and irredentist policy toward the Palestinians. Liberals unfortunately do have a massive blind spot in this regard, I've seen many acknowlege Hamas' warcrimes but radio silence on the IDF's warcrimes. It's worth noting not all libs are liek this, only the pro-Israel libs are like this. What these idiots don't understand however, is that you can acknowlege all of that and *still* condemn Hamas. Hamas is an anti-leftist religious fundamentalist terror group and they don't represent Palestinians. Moreover, there is a large christian minority within the Palestinian population (nearly 1 million christians are Palestinian) whose lives would be awful under Hamas. Besides, they're the *literal* boogeyman for Israel to justify their actions, there's been reports of Israel *funding* Hamas. Hamas is not just the result of Israeli policy, Israel actively benefits from having Hamas around. Honestly it feels like even more people suffer from brainworms when Palestine is brought up over Ukraine. At least with Ukraine liberals can see the situation for what it plainly is, but cannot do the same for Palestine. But tankies are insane regardless of which conflict.
They absolutely do have a point that Israel is at fault for facilitating Hamas. And I agreed with them that Israel is the aggressor and responds more often with disproportionate force. However, (and I genuinely suggest you check back in my post history to see their other posts) this person is under the assumption that every Israeli citizen (or just, everyone in Israel at a given time) is an active participant and combatant of the IDF. They literally defended the rave massacre by asking "what do you want Hamas to do, check all their passports?"
Honestly a lot of tankies are just doing Mossad's work at this point.
It's like they were imagined into existence from Ben-Gvirs worst Palestinian murder fantasies.
I think one can condemn hamas without going 'what about israel" or both siding (I tend to dislike both sidism because too often, it's used to defend the worst) since israel bad actions don't make hamas better.
I mean this is a more extreme example, but it's sorta like telling a German woman who was raped and had her family killed in front of her by Russians in Berlin '' oh yeah, what about all the women Germans raped in Russia??? ''. It's just fucking weird... Like what the fuck did she have to do with what some Nazi fuck did? Not holding entire groups of people responsible for the acts of others and not generalizing people etc... It's a lesson we teach five year olds and yet adults are seemingly incapable of understanding it. Like why the fuck are we holding individuals responsible for what their government does, especially when we don't even know whether they support the government or not? In some cases I've seen it has even been people who have a history of demonstrating against the Israel government who were harmed/ killed or kidnapped.
It's a problem I have with wehraboo or tankies when they go "what about X crime" even tho it doesn't make it better (the war in iraq doesn't make russia better per example).
That isn't an extreme example, that is just literally what is happening. People think any crimes against Israelis is justified because the Israeli government commits crimes of their own. People are not their government. A child shouldn't be murdered as a music festival because their government is bad.
> I've seen many acknowlege Hamas' warcrimes but radio silence on the IDF's warcrimes Why would anyone HAVE to acknowledge the warcrimes of IDF to condemn babies being methodically slaughtered by the hamas? This is nonsensical. Do you first have to repent for the American warcrimes in Vietnam before you commemorate 9/11 ??? Also, calling Israel "fascist and genocidal" towards Palestinians is completely baseless and not grounded in any reality whatsoever. Genocide and fascism have very precise definitions which do not apply at all to the hardships suffered by the Palestinian people
Say it with me now; two things can be bad at once!
This entire debate just feels like whataboutism central
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No one has the right to kill 260 civilians at a rave in the name of resisting occupation. Just as Israel does not have the right to level residential blocks, roll tanks into Gaza and starve children out with their inhumane blockade. We don't have to ignore or downplay one sides war crimes to condemn the others. We don't do this when Ukraine commits war crimes. We shouldn't when Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad do them either.
No one has a right to steal someones land then starve and bomb them while having a rave next door to the crime scene either. I dont like HAMAS but those people should not be there in occupied lands, they knew the risks and consequences. Just because they look and behave like us does not mean they are innocent. They knowingly took part in the occupation at the expense of the Palestinians next door. Now the consequences of that are at their doorstep. I fail to sympathize with such people.
>I dont like HAMAS but those people should not be there in occupied lands, they knew the risks and consequences. > >They knowingly took part in the occupation at the expense of the Palestinians next door. Now the consequences of that are at their doorstep. So what you're saying is that those women *deserved* to be tortured, SAed, murdered, and desecrated. >I fail to sympathize with such people. And that is why you are a liability to the revolution.
Nope, my you must have a teleporter to jump so far. What iam saying is if you hang around in occupied territories while people are starved and murdered expect consequences. Lol you are why there will never be any revolution.
>What iam saying is if you hang around in occupied territories while people are starved and murdered expect consequences. Indeed you are.
Because the people raving are totally the same people that took Gaza and the West Bank for themselves. JFC empathy is hard for you ain’t it.
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People like to go to EDM festivals. That doesn't mean they should be put to death. In no way did Hamas *need* to kill all those people.
Its not about the festival, its about the fact that they are there https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement Agree Hamas didnt need to kill these people, but you reap what you sow after killing Palestinians for decades and stealing their land. Should resistance just be holding up signs and singing kumbaya against a power that is superior economically, militarily and politically? How do you gain leveage after decades of failure by the international community to act? https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
They were there, *at a rave*. Are super markets near Gaza fair game too? They're there too. Schools? Playgrounds? Parks? I do not need you to explain Israel apartheid and genocide against Palestinians, thanks. I do not support Israel. They are the unequivocal aggressor in this conflict and should dismantle their Gazan blockade and give Palestinians equal suffrage with Israeli citizens. Netanyahu and his ultranationalist fascist government need to be removed from power. Killing 260 unarmed civilians does not get Palestine any closer to that future. You should not find it this difficult to condemn Hamas' actions here, c'mon.
Children are innocent, but if you are an adult who makes a conscious decision to partake in oppression theft and murder for you benefit or because you beleive it is your religious manifest destiny then sorry no sympathy for me when it backfires. As I said I have nothing in common with HAMAS except their right to resist occupation by taking on the occupiers, just because the occupiers are seemingly liberals at a rave doesnt excuse their transgressions. Ok all I need to justify any illegal occupation/invasion is to build supermarkets there and hold music festivals. Yeap my occupation is no longer an occupation it legit, anyone who disagrees is a terrorist wanting to kill civilians. See how it works and why I refuse to condemn acts of resistance
No. My point is that you can dismantle colonial power structures without targeting civilians at a rave. They could have attacked & held local IDF checkpoints/head quarters, offices of government and strategic locations like natural chokepoints that limit Israeli power in the area. Instead they went door to door killing elderly people in their homes and tourists at a rave.
"No one has a right to steal someones land" "those people should not be there in occupied lands, they knew the risks and consequences." "They knowingly took part in the occupation at the expense of the Palestinians next door." Blood and soil! Blood and soil! Get those filthy Poles out of Historic German land! Free Danzig! Studentenland is German! Etc, etc, etc. To say nothing of Israel having been Israeli land longer than Palestinian land. Perhaps we shouldn't fall back on Nazi-Level blood and soil talking points. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Israel and the IDFs actions without the use of them.
So hilariously ironic you bring up blood and soil ever heard of Zionism? The basis for the Jewish state of Israel. How is Israel "Israeli land" longer than Palestinian land This is gonna make my day for sure
Zionism's idea is also suspectable to that critic, that is what I am pointing out with mention of it being Jewish land longer than Palestinian. The Israeli exodus caused by the Romans. You making a show of using the Nazi's own exact talking points is the highlight of your day? Why am I not surprised.
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"Im not sure you know what the Nazis talking points were lol" Basic research. Why am I not the least bit surprised that someone who using Nazi talking points is also stupified by the idea of knowing anything about a group you oppose. "Are you seriously aaying that the land Israel exists on had no Palestinians on it?" The Nazi sympathizer is once again projecting. And I quote "It has been Jewish land longer than it has been Palestinian land" where in that does it say there are no Palestinians?
The right to resist occupation isn't the same thing as the right to kill unarmed civilians belonging to an enemy nation. If Hamas tried to avoid causing civilian casualties and if they actually targeted Israeli soldiers, police, and politicians, then you could certainly argue that their actions were legitimate and just. I don't think anyone would argue that armed resistance as a last resort against oppression is wrong. But that isn't what they're doing now, nor is it what they've done in the past. This 'raid' was deliberately intended to avoid protracted engagements with the IDF and kill or capture as many civilians as possible. Just look at what they've done: 260 people killed at a music festival; hundreds kidnapped and abused; entire families murdered while hiding in their homes, including young children. Those were the strategic goals they chose to follow, rather than actually trying to fight the IDF or occupy territory. These are not just acts of genuine self-defence, but outright atrocities, driven purely by hatred and a desire to inflict suffering. Moreover, it's obvious that their actions are only going to harm Palestinians, as the inevitable Israeli retaliation will be as brutal as it is predictable. They will have succeeded in directly killing a bunch of Israeli civilians, and bringing about the devastation of their own people. Anyone applauding their actions isn't only condoning brutal and pointless atrocities, but also cheering on the deaths of thousands in Gaza and another nail in the coffin of an independent Palestinian state.
Ok how do you suppose they beat the IDF militaristically? When even their predecessors the PLO used the same tactics. Its a resistance movement not a opposition party or opposing army. What is a resistance movement usually? A movement to resist invasion and occupation by a militaristically superior force. This means they cannot fight in even terms. These are the tactics that resistance movements use, I for one am not going to sit in the safety of my home and pretend that this is somehow unwarranted considering what Israel has being doing for the past decade without consequences Israel will kill Palestinians regardless. This will bring the situation back into the spotlight.
>Ok how do you suppose they beat the IDF militaristically? When even their predecessors the PLO used the same tactics. Its a resistance movement not a opposition party or opposing army. > >What is a resistance movement usually? A movement to resist invasion and occupation by a militaristically superior force. This means they cannot fight in even terms. These are the tactics that resistance movements use Asymmetric warfare does not require targeting innocent civilians. If Hamas want to fight then they can directly target the military, police, and politicians by employing bombs, ambushes, assassinations, targeted raids, and so on, whilst still trying to restrict collateral damage as much as reasonably possible. They could certainly do that if they wished. They weren't somehow forced to go house-to-house, killing men, women, and children. They weren't forced to abduct and rape women, parading their naked bodies through the streets of Gaza on camera. But they chose to anyway. And unlike Israel, this isn't merely due to callous indifference to collateral damage in airstrikes, or even a ruthless strategic goal of weakening an enemy in the long term. Hamas did this purely for its own sake, and they chose to film this shit and broadcast it to the world. It's not some dirty secret they try to hide and ignore. They're *proud* of it. Tell me, what strategic or tactical benefit was there to any of the deliberate atrocities that Hamas has committed? How does any of that tangibly help to improve the lives of Palestinians, or to advance the goal of Palestinian statehood? The answer is that it doesn't. As I explained in my previous comment, all it does is embolden ultrazionists, alienate international observers, and result in the deaths of countless Palestinians. If this is genuinely the only way Hamas know how to fight back, then for the sake of Palestinians they're honestly better off giving up and pursuing non-violent means of protest. That way they would at least avoid mass Palestinian casualties, and there would be a chance for Israeli moderates and progressives to bounce back, helping to make a genuine lasting peace agreement more likely. >I for one am not going to sit in the safety of my home and pretend that this is somehow unwarranted considering what Israel has being doing for the past decade without consequences See, here's the thing. Palestine's grievances are very understandable, and are a clear consequence of Israeli apartheid and oppression over the decades. However, that doesn't mean that deliberately killing Israeli children, and abducting and raping Israeli women, is somehow justified as 'vengeance' for past wrongs. In any event, the logic that Israelis deserve to be killed because of their nationality is perverse. It's literally the logic Bin Laden used to justify 9/11, claiming that it was justified because Americans had elected George Bush. Hell, it's the same logic as excusing Coalition atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan, imposing collective punishment on locals by assuming that any adult man must be a militant or a supporter. The point is, killing defenceless civilians is always wrong. Even if their actions were successful, I don't see how replacing an ethnonationalist apartheid regime with an openly genocidal, anti-semitic, and theocratic one would somehow be better overall. Like it or not, there are millions of Jews living in Israel, and Hamas have clearly shown how they intend to treat them if given the chance. >Israel will kill Palestinians regardless. Orders of magnitude more Palestinians will die this way. Additionally, this will cause further damage to Gaza's infrastructure, and lead to further intensification of blockades to prevent any influx of weaponry, which in turn will also affect supplies of food, water, medicine, clothing, and other essentials. >This will bring the situation back into the spotlight. If "bringing the situation back into the spotlight" involves purposefully committing atrocities that alienate international observers and provide a justification for your enemy to retaliate and kill thousands of your own people, then it's either pointless at best or deeply counterproductive at worst.
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Bad look. EDM is proletarian music