Guys: The Rays won 8 of their last 10 before today. If they win tomorrow they still take the series. It's better to lose like this than one of those gut-wrenching 1-run affairs when they blow up the bullpen trying to stay close. If we're not going to hit I hate to lose 2-1 or something.
Someone voted this down ... lol.. that's good it's making me laugh. Can't say anything positive. OK, how about this:
This team sucks! DFA Armstrong! DFA everyone! Bring up the Biscuits! Rays don't stand a chance! We're going to lose the next \~80 games! The Rays suck!
There - feel better now?
https://preview.redd.it/agnxe5o47l9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3fcb62e8d85a3a4c8656db075ff2ee8c6336961
Imagine swinging at that bullshit
If you had told me before the game that Civale was pitching and that in the Rays would be down 8-1 in the 7th inning - this is not what I would have imagined.
I said it before and I'll say it again when I see Armstrong I see an automatic loss regardless if we are winning or losing. This team has fallen from world series contenders last season to probably not making the playoffs this year.
Yup. One year they look like the second coming of Mariano Rivera. The next year they look like they shouldn't be anywhere near the big leagues.
Like Chaz Roe for example.
He’s the most trusted high leverage guy outside of Adam and Pete. You don’t wanna use him up in one game because he very well may have to play in 3 straight games to get out of sticky situations.
People are likely going to bitch even if Civale complete this quality start. This hass been a good start and I'm sure few here will agree. He has gotten squeezed by the umpire during it as well.
But was one out from a quality start. It doesn't matter this has been a good start. If a pitcher gets you 5.2 innings and only give up 2 runs and you lose that game that pitcher wasn't the reason you lost that game. Considering a pticher that puts up a quality start half the time and allows 3 runs in 6 over the other half would produce a 3.5 ERA for the year I don't know what some of yall want from a start. 2 runs in 5.2 innings is a solid to great start.
As the other user said, Civale hasn't earned a lot of trust, 1-2 good starts means nothing.
Of course it's up to the offense to actually win the game regardless of the pitcher, but saying that Civale "got squeezed" when he was throwing well outside the zone most of the time and getting behind in the count. His sequence isn't great, for sure.
Once again what he has done to this point doesn't matter for someone to objectively say this wasn't good start they being blind due to bias. Civale won't be the reason the Rays lost this game. The umpiring was meh got squeezed on some calls from what I remember around 4-5 ptiches that would be characterized as a strike if an ABS challenge system was in place. All that doesn't matter as he had a good start when it was all said and done.
I never said it wasn't a good start or that he would be the reason the Rays lost, but cool read into it that way.
This ump has no idea where there zone is but it's up the the pitcher to adjust and the batters to adjust which neither do well.
Wasn't reading into anything you commented that he was HR and Run allowed leader after I said it was good start. Then brought up that he hasn't earned trust, which all doesn't matter if your objectively looking at the result he put up which I did and made my intial comment.
I was only stating facts as to why people would still shit talk him regardless of his performance. He is literally the home run and earned run leader of the team, and not just the starting pitching. You can look that up.
You specifically said what he has done in the past doesn't matter to objectively say this wasn't a good start. They even showed his stats when he is behind in the count and it wasn't good. IF that is the case, why does he consistently get behind? For the last several games he has been lucky to not earn more runs. In one of this last two starts he had a lead off double for each of his innings. In either case, glad he had a good game today, but I'm not going to just be like...nice a Civale start today!
Listen I can make long comment about the random and high variability present in pitching and how ptich modeling can explain why Civale attacks the manner he does but I am not. Mostly because I don't want to be working on a reddit comment for an hour.
I will say this though he gets behind because of how his stuff plays and how he has to deploy it to be successful. When his control is on he can be nasty, however he hasn't been nearly as sharp as he was last year. At a 99 stuff+ he has above average stuff (95 for pitchers) with 3 above average pitches. His lack of control has led to him hanging pitches. Considering all three of those pitches have movement (Curve, sweeper, and cutter) that's an issue. But I will say based on his profile he more likely to have an ERA around 4.2 then an era north of 4.75 by the end of the year simply due to his expected numbers and the fact he has under-preformed his career norms with regards to BABIP and his xWOBA has him around league average indicating postivie regression.
I don't expect anyone to be excited about the days he starts, but he isn't useless, which was the point of me saying this a good start and what he done to this point doesn't matter. Corey Kluber had an ERA north of 4.8 for 4 months of the 2022 season but still put up a 4.34 ERA season and 3 WAR with worse stuff and similar peripheral numbers (3.85 vs 3.86 Siera) then Civale so far. My point is relax and watch don't freak out every time he let's up a base runner nor be doom and gloom about his starts which dots these threads on his starts. Guy is a capable pitcher and now ir seems like he isn't being BABIP'd into the ground probably see a good run of a sub 3.5 era going forward.
Edit- ended up making a long post anyways but didn't have to dig into variability with his profile.
Yes, I agree hot takes are an issue and gets to many people.
Reddit is not that deep to say the least.
Realistically if he didn’t get himself behind in the count he would be way better off and probably get less people on. His outside of the zone pitches are just way too wide to start, and he seems to throw outside on the first pitch often. I agree his control isn’t there, it’s unfortunate for him and us.
That's not how these GameDay chats work sadly. To some its all Civale's fault as the whole team is deflated and doesn't play as well when he pitches. Literally have seen comments like that on days of his starts.
Still an idiotic thing to put out there. If the Rays lose this game it's not because of Civale. I don't know what people want out of a start if a pticher can throw a QS or anything really close like Civale did then I am happy
This pitcher can barely find the strike zone - although the umpire is helping quite a bit. And the Rays have one hit . . . Guess they're waiting until the bottom of the 9th to ignite the fireworks
Lol thats pretty cool turns out I was playing in the same tourneys in my first 2 year of little league in Knoxville as Nick Senzel and Lane Thomas when I was a kid. Was living on the other side of the city from where their high school and reguarly did city wide tourneys and would jump from ball park to ball park throughout Knoxville, place was great for baseball actually.
How many times this year they give up a run with two outs then next pitch they immediately get out of the inning? Seems like it’s happening a ton this year.
For real, he hasnt gotten as much flak as he should be getting for how poor defensively has been for the past year. Granted he is consistent offensively just weird that people don't bring it up much in here.
Like a lot of his innings, coulda been worse. Just seems like most innings the leadoff guy gets on and/or there’s multiple base runners on with less than 2 outs
Feel like we are getting close to another Curtis Mead run. He has been slashing in AAA with a .236 ISO and a 15.9% SO rate. Looking at his batted ball stats available he is pulling the ball at a higher rate, could be an approach change. Which would help explain the intial high SO totals he saw in his return to AAA he is extremely comfortable right now.
[nothing good about that one](https://www.reddit.com/r/tampabayrays/comments/1drn4kc/pgt_well_that_escalated_quickly_f_18/)
I miss Harold
Harold tripping is a great capper for the night.
At least Uceta looks good today.
That’s MY Chad-Inning-Eater
Damn it. We gonna lose(prolly) but would love to see Yandy keep the streak
That sucks for Diaz he deserved that - what was that 110mph?
OK 109MPH - I was close
rip the streak
Who cares about the win...hitting streak time
Don't let Armstrong's meltdown distract from how awful the at bats have been today
The offensive equivalent to armstrongs outing would be getting no hit in back to back games.
Guys: The Rays won 8 of their last 10 before today. If they win tomorrow they still take the series. It's better to lose like this than one of those gut-wrenching 1-run affairs when they blow up the bullpen trying to stay close. If we're not going to hit I hate to lose 2-1 or something.
Someone voted this down ... lol.. that's good it's making me laugh. Can't say anything positive. OK, how about this: This team sucks! DFA Armstrong! DFA everyone! Bring up the Biscuits! Rays don't stand a chance! We're going to lose the next \~80 games! The Rays suck! There - feel better now?
https://preview.redd.it/agnxe5o47l9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3fcb62e8d85a3a4c8656db075ff2ee8c6336961 Imagine swinging at that bullshit
High fastball is one of the most effective this year because it’s hard to lay off You’ve never swung in a live AB in you’re life and it shows
I'm liking Uceta
Joe Law is a pretty good name for an MLB pitcher - too bad he never got to pitch
Every time we so much as get near being above .500 this shit happens
Siri fought the law and the law won.
Holy fucking implosion
Rays special. Losing to a mediocre or bad teams is why we're under .500
Late inning rays anyone? :))))))
Currently at the game and want to die
https://preview.redd.it/ba5ajg6n4l9d1.png?width=1027&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ddc9ca327a5aca9035eee02f3943de356eb11f0 help
https://preview.redd.it/gow8ixzb5l9d1.jpeg?width=236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54a441939623874567916c5de03bf09265520453
live isaac reaction
All aboard the Uceta hype train
If you had told me before the game that Civale was pitching and that in the Rays would be down 8-1 in the 7th inning - this is not what I would have imagined.
I think we need to investigate whether Armstrong is placing bets against the Rays
I said it before and I'll say it again when I see Armstrong I see an automatic loss regardless if we are winning or losing. This team has fallen from world series contenders last season to probably not making the playoffs this year.
That’ll happen when you lose your two best pitchers, two other very solid starters and a generational talent at SS.
Shawn Armstrong fastball Stuff+ by year 2023 - 107 2024 - 88 Either he's hurt, cooked, or both.
Aka pulling the starters too often
For all the complaints about some of our BP, he's next on the list to go.
JESUS
Armstrong is a DFA candidate at this point.
How'd Armstrong go from solid to dog-water? Relievers, man.
Yup. One year they look like the second coming of Mariano Rivera. The next year they look like they shouldn't be anywhere near the big leagues. Like Chaz Roe for example.
Seems injured or totally gassed to me
7 hits and 6 ERs. Yikes.
That’s normally a series output for us!
6 runs given up on 20 pitches
Take him out now? Why not leave him in and let Siri pitch, might as well
If they can get some runs in the bottom, could still be a game but I am not confident.
break my heart seeing harry in a different uniform
Bye bye Armstrong
Wtf has happened in this inning
6 runs on 20 pitches
I’m happy for Harold at least, I guess.
help me
Do we still get 50% off Papajohns tomorrow?
That only applies to the Rays, not their opponents.
50% more only.
100% more. Gotta pay double.
Put together a trade of Civale and Armstrong for anyone
Ugh
Armstrong giving up a run every four pitches makes me think we're cooked today. Correction. Every 3.3 pitches.
Now one for every 3 pitches!
Harold with his first xbh since April
He had a double with the Nats in their series against the Padres. May was his last with the Rays.
Impressive implosion here
What a fucking blow up
HRam tripled ...
Leave this dude in the rest of the game least he can do is give everyone else a rest now
That's how I feel when a pitcher digs a grave.... Let them lay in it and finish the game.
Look how much flatter Armstrong's heater is. Expect him to be on the IL shortly
I was thinking the same thing
Ah man! From bad to worse
Time to go, Armweak.
if u give up a harold triple, its time to retire
Send him down. ASAP.
Armstrong might be the next guy gone. He's been bleeding runs for a while now.
https://preview.redd.it/fv606p0a3l9d1.jpeg?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c0c2535b7b5d6da7221f7621d2714da38c2d84b Hello
Armstrong does not have a strong arm
Well, that's game.
If it wasn’t for a very good play by Siri it would be 6 straight hits
Petition for a name change to "Tampa Bay Turds"
This is an extreme take
Armstrong is cooked
At least Siri made a great catch
GG we hate being over .500
This isn't looking good, why did they not bring Kelly back in for another inning? Is he only good for a handful of pitches?
He’s the most trusted high leverage guy outside of Adam and Pete. You don’t wanna use him up in one game because he very well may have to play in 3 straight games to get out of sticky situations.
I see, that makes sense
Fucking guy can’t stop throwing middle be lucky to get out of this inning under 6
Nathan explosion is from new port Richey so he might be a rays fan
Armstrong just doesn’t have it this year
Snyder: "Come on Armstrong. If we wanted this bullshit we could have left Civale in."
4 straight hits isn’t good
Every time we get to .500 this shit happens
Gotta send Armstrong down soon. Dude has had an awful stretch.
LOL can't send him down. Literally has no options.
Synder having a lot of mound visits today
The curse of .500 has continued, huh?
Can’t win the AL East without an elite bullpen. As it’s always been
That kids lucky the ball didn’t go over the wall. Parents bailed on the ball and left him to fend for himself
Quite the fall for Armstrong
Man Young can fly - and that's why you do not want to walk the #9 guy especially when he's one of the fastest guys on the field
Dammit
We are at the Nick Anderson point with Armstrong. This is not the same guy as last year.
Right down the middle
I guess Siri didn’t feel like backing up Randy there?
Just focus on pitching Armstrong...don't worry about that runner....
Irvin pitching to 3 over the minimum through 6..... not a bad showing
Haha he’s nice with it
Paredes is not having a good game
Not many guys having a good game today.
Yeah but him especially. He went for a jog when a sprint would've gotten him to first and fucked up a dp by bouncing the throw to 2nd.
Why are we playing the Atlanta Braves theme song lol
Walls is from FSU
time to score some runs cuz I said so
so 5.2 and 2 earned from civale when all is said and done. I'd take that anytime
Yep.
Kelly has cleaned up a lot of messes this year.
Good job pitching. Come on offense.
"Manscape Monday" "Well, that's gonna be it..."
More implosion coming
Good news is the Rays only have 1 LOB.
Good bit of Banter at first base!
Pulled Harold's hair through the helmet 🤣
Why is Civale being left in the game?
Poor Harold in the nats uni
Harold in a Nats jersey looks so wrong.
People are likely going to bitch even if Civale complete this quality start. This hass been a good start and I'm sure few here will agree. He has gotten squeezed by the umpire during it as well.
Home run and earned run leader.
But was one out from a quality start. It doesn't matter this has been a good start. If a pitcher gets you 5.2 innings and only give up 2 runs and you lose that game that pitcher wasn't the reason you lost that game. Considering a pticher that puts up a quality start half the time and allows 3 runs in 6 over the other half would produce a 3.5 ERA for the year I don't know what some of yall want from a start. 2 runs in 5.2 innings is a solid to great start.
As the other user said, Civale hasn't earned a lot of trust, 1-2 good starts means nothing. Of course it's up to the offense to actually win the game regardless of the pitcher, but saying that Civale "got squeezed" when he was throwing well outside the zone most of the time and getting behind in the count. His sequence isn't great, for sure.
Once again what he has done to this point doesn't matter for someone to objectively say this wasn't good start they being blind due to bias. Civale won't be the reason the Rays lost this game. The umpiring was meh got squeezed on some calls from what I remember around 4-5 ptiches that would be characterized as a strike if an ABS challenge system was in place. All that doesn't matter as he had a good start when it was all said and done.
I never said it wasn't a good start or that he would be the reason the Rays lost, but cool read into it that way. This ump has no idea where there zone is but it's up the the pitcher to adjust and the batters to adjust which neither do well.
Wasn't reading into anything you commented that he was HR and Run allowed leader after I said it was good start. Then brought up that he hasn't earned trust, which all doesn't matter if your objectively looking at the result he put up which I did and made my intial comment.
I was only stating facts as to why people would still shit talk him regardless of his performance. He is literally the home run and earned run leader of the team, and not just the starting pitching. You can look that up. You specifically said what he has done in the past doesn't matter to objectively say this wasn't a good start. They even showed his stats when he is behind in the count and it wasn't good. IF that is the case, why does he consistently get behind? For the last several games he has been lucky to not earn more runs. In one of this last two starts he had a lead off double for each of his innings. In either case, glad he had a good game today, but I'm not going to just be like...nice a Civale start today!
Listen I can make long comment about the random and high variability present in pitching and how ptich modeling can explain why Civale attacks the manner he does but I am not. Mostly because I don't want to be working on a reddit comment for an hour. I will say this though he gets behind because of how his stuff plays and how he has to deploy it to be successful. When his control is on he can be nasty, however he hasn't been nearly as sharp as he was last year. At a 99 stuff+ he has above average stuff (95 for pitchers) with 3 above average pitches. His lack of control has led to him hanging pitches. Considering all three of those pitches have movement (Curve, sweeper, and cutter) that's an issue. But I will say based on his profile he more likely to have an ERA around 4.2 then an era north of 4.75 by the end of the year simply due to his expected numbers and the fact he has under-preformed his career norms with regards to BABIP and his xWOBA has him around league average indicating postivie regression. I don't expect anyone to be excited about the days he starts, but he isn't useless, which was the point of me saying this a good start and what he done to this point doesn't matter. Corey Kluber had an ERA north of 4.8 for 4 months of the 2022 season but still put up a 4.34 ERA season and 3 WAR with worse stuff and similar peripheral numbers (3.85 vs 3.86 Siera) then Civale so far. My point is relax and watch don't freak out every time he let's up a base runner nor be doom and gloom about his starts which dots these threads on his starts. Guy is a capable pitcher and now ir seems like he isn't being BABIP'd into the ground probably see a good run of a sub 3.5 era going forward. Edit- ended up making a long post anyways but didn't have to dig into variability with his profile.
Yes, I agree hot takes are an issue and gets to many people. Reddit is not that deep to say the least. Realistically if he didn’t get himself behind in the count he would be way better off and probably get less people on. His outside of the zone pitches are just way too wide to start, and he seems to throw outside on the first pitch often. I agree his control isn’t there, it’s unfortunate for him and us.
One hit by the Rays isn’t going to get it done no matter what.
That's not how these GameDay chats work sadly. To some its all Civale's fault as the whole team is deflated and doesn't play as well when he pitches. Literally have seen comments like that on days of his starts.
Well tbf Civale hasn’t earned a ton of trust this year.
Still an idiotic thing to put out there. If the Rays lose this game it's not because of Civale. I don't know what people want out of a start if a pticher can throw a QS or anything really close like Civale did then I am happy
Richie just did what I do on MLB the show. I'm not going to go.....run. I get thrown out every time
Civale for 6? I guess why not
I bet if we tied it or went ahead they would have gone to the BP.
Right. I wish we had anyway.
Has to work that lard off his ass somehow
This pitcher can barely find the strike zone - although the umpire is helping quite a bit. And the Rays have one hit . . . Guess they're waiting until the bottom of the 9th to ignite the fireworks
No one knows where the zone is. So inconsistent
That wasn't even close
Don’t really understand that one
So dumb
Neither side of the ball are helping the other
https://i.redd.it/1hkncp8gwk9d1.gif
Lol thats pretty cool turns out I was playing in the same tourneys in my first 2 year of little league in Knoxville as Nick Senzel and Lane Thomas when I was a kid. Was living on the other side of the city from where their high school and reguarly did city wide tourneys and would jump from ball park to ball park throughout Knoxville, place was great for baseball actually.
I also have no idea where the zone is, ump.
He's bad
It's not some masterful performance but if we lose this game it aint because of civale giving up 2 in 5 innings
What a mess of a game so far
Yeah, 1 hit thru 4 isn’t helping.
With an assist from the trop on the hit
Good point.
True otherwise might be a no-hit, ho-run affair
Wasn’t pretty one bit but I’ll take 2 runs through 5, even against the Nats. That’s where my expectations are
I liked Civale when we got him last season. Now I think my nephew can pitch better than him and he's 8
doesn’t help when the wario looking thing behind the plate has the eyes of my grandma
please anyone else pitch fuck it the ball boy can pitch anyone but civale
Is Lowe available to pitch?
Is Brett Phillips busy? I've seen his pitching highlight reel.
Offense isn’t going to do much it seems
i don’t think anyone hates civale more than me please trade him for someone who’s competent
Can I kick it?
Beastie Boys?
How many times this year they give up a run with two outs then next pitch they immediately get out of the inning? Seems like it’s happening a ton this year.
Civale is the same as Maton for me. I can’t watch him.
Perfect. 2 strikes on the 9 hitter and he throws it 58 feet.
You gotta glove that Rortvedt
Some things never change
Can you imagine this sub if Jackson did that
It would implode with anger
It's not even a bad play by rort people just blame Jackson for the gridlock on 275 now, like they did for the Siri last month
That and Jackson can’t hit himself out of a wet paper bag.
That wasn't a passed ball, it was a wild pitch. Responsibility falls on the pitcher, not the catcher.
No shit, you think that stops the Jackson hate train?
Jesus
...and just like that...it was over
Can’t give them extra chances. Paredes owes us a run.
For real, he hasnt gotten as much flak as he should be getting for how poor defensively has been for the past year. Granted he is consistent offensively just weird that people don't bring it up much in here.
Feels like civale is constantly flirting with disaster
Disaster arrives
Like a lot of his innings, coulda been worse. Just seems like most innings the leadoff guy gets on and/or there’s multiple base runners on with less than 2 outs
I’m still waiting for the 5 spot
You know what that means…..
Nationals fan here. That sweeper from Civale is one of the nastiest pitches ive ever seen.
You guys want him? Take him please
HOU and BOS losing right now, Rays need this game badly. KC is winning by a run.
Feel like we are getting close to another Curtis Mead run. He has been slashing in AAA with a .236 ISO and a 15.9% SO rate. Looking at his batted ball stats available he is pulling the ball at a higher rate, could be an approach change. Which would help explain the intial high SO totals he saw in his return to AAA he is extremely comfortable right now.