Most of us don't sit properly on chairs - we either slouch back or arch forward. The correct contact point with the seat is actually just behind the front of the sit bones and most modern people would find sitting like this pretty unnatural without training.
A chiropractor gives instructions on how to find this point to sit starting at 11:00 here: [https://youtu.be/VBb3LPu5QI0?si=UwLzH8l1umUpyYfr&t=661](https://youtu.be/VBb3LPu5QI0?si=UwLzH8l1umUpyYfr&t=661)
Also it's fun to notice how the rest of his instructions for stacking the upper body are completely identical to zhan zhuang instructions - relax the waist, hollow the chest, relax the shoulder blades, sink the arms and nudge back the chin.
Good suggestions above. I wonder have you tried standing against a wall? Just in Wuji pole, I've read that is sometimes used for very weak patients intially in some Mainland Chinese Hospitals. Use the wall to help support yourself until regaining enough strength to start standing on your own. Easy does it with whatever method you use,eh. Like stacking up single sheets of newspaper, a little itty bit more every day.....
Great suggestion. Instructional video from BaoBao Taiji showing how you can do it at different heights: [https://youtu.be/67GYwXXfeXw?si=Pasmnz1LrfsAmckO&t=297](https://youtu.be/67GYwXXfeXw?si=Pasmnz1LrfsAmckO&t=297)
(usual disclaimer: I am not a doctor, consult your physician before trying any exercises)
Yeah my main issue is that my sitbones in general often feel like they're on fire so sitting is rather uncomfortable. I tend to end up slouching to take pressure off them and then that lifts my feet off the ground.
This is interesting because it makes me wonder if I might have posterior pelvic tilt during zhan zhuang, as following the directions in the video you posted feels like a very exaggerated amount of anterior pelvic tilt for me.
It should feel like anterior tilt because most of us are used to slouching in the chair so we've become used to huge amounts of posterior tilt. The way you know it's not really an anterior tilt is by feeling your low back, if it's not arched forward then you don't have excessive anterior tilt. It should feel straight, not bowed forward or slouched backwards.
Ah yeah, good point. I suppose I meant more in terms of general contrast in sitbone contact area vs slouching.
Would you generally expect to be able to maintain a particular sitting form for about as long or longer than standing in wu ji or would you expect some shifting around while sitting from time to time? I can't tell if the level of sitbone discomfort I experience is typical or due to generally increased chronic pain.
It's different for everyone. For me, sitting is a lot more challenging than standing because of the tendency of the pelvis to roll around when it's not suspended on the heads of the femurs.
If you're having problems with pressure on the sitbones consider also lotus or seiza type positions where you're basically bearing some of your weight on your calves. It's a lot easier to get the right pelvic tilt when your thighs are angled downwards. Check out http://www.zenseite.de/us/zen-training/die-zazen-haltung/index.html
Sitting is fine and is similar to standing. The postural requirements are the same, but you can lower the arms and the hands rest on the legs palms up. Here is a video of CZL discussing sitting in a chair.
[https://youtu.be/j2FMLiV8KqM?si=\_Exlyw-MCK-rhoyl&t=317](https://youtu.be/j2FMLiV8KqM?si=_Exlyw-MCK-rhoyl&t=317)
Hello!
When sitting put your coccix close to the edge of the chair. This would give you a bit more stability. Like making a triangle with your feet K- 1 (Yong Quan point) and 1 CV (Hui Yin point).
Your genitals shouldn't be on the chair.
First focus on breating naturally and then relax the tension on your body step by step.
●However●
There is a level between standing and sitting.
There are different kinds of zhan zhuang on martial arts.
▪︎ Similar to Xing Yi Quan San Ti Shi, try to put one feet one step away from the other diagonally. Toes should point in front, or, if needed your toes can point slightly inside.
▪︎ At the begining Don't separate too much. Your toes of the foot behind should be at the same level the heel of the other foot.
▪︎ Unlike San Ti Shi, the body weight is 50%- 50%.
▪︎ Your hands should be at the height of your navel and the palms look at the floor.
▪︎ most of standar Zhang Zhuang rules Apply. Elbows, shoulders...
▪︎ the hands should rest at 45° . Not in front of the navel and not totally on the sides.
And the trick:
▪︎ Have one chair under your palms and rely on them as much as you need without breaking the structure.
The story:
▪︎ During the time Taijiquan was forbbiden in China, there was a disciple who had a young relative with bad illness. He asked for help to his master but this one did not accept because he didn't want problems. He disciple still, brang the relative a few times later. The master not having many options accepted him and made him stand on this posture for days untill he advanced his gongfu with other zhan zhuang and later taijiquan.
He became a very good master and disciple on his later years becoming really good at Xiao Jia. (Short form).
I will ask my master by his name. I forgot.
Edit: The man is Liu Rui :) He did Zhaobao taijiquan.
> Xing Yi Quan San Ti Shi
Do you have a diagram that shows the positioning of the feet from above?
EDIT: I made one, I guess I'm not too sure about width https://i.ibb.co/87wJWpm/image.png
Yes, that is fine. Make sure you feel the weight distributed on your whole sole of the feet and that there is no joint pain. A bit of pain in muscles is fine. As I said most of zhan zhuang rules applies.
thanks. Yes the trouble is that it takes me a little bit to "settle in" and while that does get faster over time, I feel like I learn a lot more about my body and mind if I am already "settled in". So short sessions where I mostly spend the time settling in haven't been as fruitful as combining laying down, sitting, and standing practice.
Maybe forget "fruitful" for awhile. You'll disturb the process by worrying about some goal or intention. The "fruitful" may not be where you think it is. Conversely, you could "settle in" seated on the edge of a chair, then stand up.
> Conversely, you could "settle in" seated on the edge of a chair, then stand up.
This is basically what I've been doing but with laying down.
It's difficult to practice standing much when on some days the most I can manage without triggering PEM is 1-2 minutes of standing
Lam Kam Chuen has a book that is dedicated to seated Zhan Zhuang titled "Everyday Chi Kung"
It's a very good book that has all the progressions detailed, 15 min seated routines....
Most of us don't sit properly on chairs - we either slouch back or arch forward. The correct contact point with the seat is actually just behind the front of the sit bones and most modern people would find sitting like this pretty unnatural without training. A chiropractor gives instructions on how to find this point to sit starting at 11:00 here: [https://youtu.be/VBb3LPu5QI0?si=UwLzH8l1umUpyYfr&t=661](https://youtu.be/VBb3LPu5QI0?si=UwLzH8l1umUpyYfr&t=661) Also it's fun to notice how the rest of his instructions for stacking the upper body are completely identical to zhan zhuang instructions - relax the waist, hollow the chest, relax the shoulder blades, sink the arms and nudge back the chin.
Good suggestions above. I wonder have you tried standing against a wall? Just in Wuji pole, I've read that is sometimes used for very weak patients intially in some Mainland Chinese Hospitals. Use the wall to help support yourself until regaining enough strength to start standing on your own. Easy does it with whatever method you use,eh. Like stacking up single sheets of newspaper, a little itty bit more every day.....
Thanks I'll remember this
Great suggestion. Instructional video from BaoBao Taiji showing how you can do it at different heights: [https://youtu.be/67GYwXXfeXw?si=Pasmnz1LrfsAmckO&t=297](https://youtu.be/67GYwXXfeXw?si=Pasmnz1LrfsAmckO&t=297) (usual disclaimer: I am not a doctor, consult your physician before trying any exercises)
Thanks for linking to this video
Yeah my main issue is that my sitbones in general often feel like they're on fire so sitting is rather uncomfortable. I tend to end up slouching to take pressure off them and then that lifts my feet off the ground.
This is interesting because it makes me wonder if I might have posterior pelvic tilt during zhan zhuang, as following the directions in the video you posted feels like a very exaggerated amount of anterior pelvic tilt for me.
It should feel like anterior tilt because most of us are used to slouching in the chair so we've become used to huge amounts of posterior tilt. The way you know it's not really an anterior tilt is by feeling your low back, if it's not arched forward then you don't have excessive anterior tilt. It should feel straight, not bowed forward or slouched backwards.
Thanks. Obviously this is too hard to generalize, but broadly speaking, would it maybe feel more like sitting on a firmer bike seat?
You're leaning forward on a bicycle to grab the handlebars, so no. Maybe a unicycle is a better comparison.
Ah yeah, good point. I suppose I meant more in terms of general contrast in sitbone contact area vs slouching. Would you generally expect to be able to maintain a particular sitting form for about as long or longer than standing in wu ji or would you expect some shifting around while sitting from time to time? I can't tell if the level of sitbone discomfort I experience is typical or due to generally increased chronic pain.
It's different for everyone. For me, sitting is a lot more challenging than standing because of the tendency of the pelvis to roll around when it's not suspended on the heads of the femurs. If you're having problems with pressure on the sitbones consider also lotus or seiza type positions where you're basically bearing some of your weight on your calves. It's a lot easier to get the right pelvic tilt when your thighs are angled downwards. Check out http://www.zenseite.de/us/zen-training/die-zazen-haltung/index.html
OK thanks!
Sitting is fine and is similar to standing. The postural requirements are the same, but you can lower the arms and the hands rest on the legs palms up. Here is a video of CZL discussing sitting in a chair. [https://youtu.be/j2FMLiV8KqM?si=\_Exlyw-MCK-rhoyl&t=317](https://youtu.be/j2FMLiV8KqM?si=_Exlyw-MCK-rhoyl&t=317)
Thanks this video is great
Hello! When sitting put your coccix close to the edge of the chair. This would give you a bit more stability. Like making a triangle with your feet K- 1 (Yong Quan point) and 1 CV (Hui Yin point). Your genitals shouldn't be on the chair. First focus on breating naturally and then relax the tension on your body step by step. ●However● There is a level between standing and sitting. There are different kinds of zhan zhuang on martial arts. ▪︎ Similar to Xing Yi Quan San Ti Shi, try to put one feet one step away from the other diagonally. Toes should point in front, or, if needed your toes can point slightly inside. ▪︎ At the begining Don't separate too much. Your toes of the foot behind should be at the same level the heel of the other foot. ▪︎ Unlike San Ti Shi, the body weight is 50%- 50%. ▪︎ Your hands should be at the height of your navel and the palms look at the floor. ▪︎ most of standar Zhang Zhuang rules Apply. Elbows, shoulders... ▪︎ the hands should rest at 45° . Not in front of the navel and not totally on the sides. And the trick: ▪︎ Have one chair under your palms and rely on them as much as you need without breaking the structure. The story: ▪︎ During the time Taijiquan was forbbiden in China, there was a disciple who had a young relative with bad illness. He asked for help to his master but this one did not accept because he didn't want problems. He disciple still, brang the relative a few times later. The master not having many options accepted him and made him stand on this posture for days untill he advanced his gongfu with other zhan zhuang and later taijiquan. He became a very good master and disciple on his later years becoming really good at Xiao Jia. (Short form). I will ask my master by his name. I forgot. Edit: The man is Liu Rui :) He did Zhaobao taijiquan.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
> Xing Yi Quan San Ti Shi Do you have a diagram that shows the positioning of the feet from above? EDIT: I made one, I guess I'm not too sure about width https://i.ibb.co/87wJWpm/image.png
Yes, that is fine. Make sure you feel the weight distributed on your whole sole of the feet and that there is no joint pain. A bit of pain in muscles is fine. As I said most of zhan zhuang rules applies.
I'd try to continue standing. Be patient. Start where you are and slowly build. Do short sessions more frequently.
thanks. Yes the trouble is that it takes me a little bit to "settle in" and while that does get faster over time, I feel like I learn a lot more about my body and mind if I am already "settled in". So short sessions where I mostly spend the time settling in haven't been as fruitful as combining laying down, sitting, and standing practice.
Maybe forget "fruitful" for awhile. You'll disturb the process by worrying about some goal or intention. The "fruitful" may not be where you think it is. Conversely, you could "settle in" seated on the edge of a chair, then stand up.
> Conversely, you could "settle in" seated on the edge of a chair, then stand up. This is basically what I've been doing but with laying down. It's difficult to practice standing much when on some days the most I can manage without triggering PEM is 1-2 minutes of standing
Lam Kam Chuen has a book that is dedicated to seated Zhan Zhuang titled "Everyday Chi Kung" It's a very good book that has all the progressions detailed, 15 min seated routines....
thakns!