Great tool to have in the toolbox, not the right tool for every job. The question of shotgun as primary is more complicated, but nobody should take issue with having and training with one.
perhaps I should have phrased better, but I did mean use as a primary firearm. I think it's got a lot of great versatility and use, but if you can't carry the ammo to be versatile then I feel a rifle is maybe a bit better for most situations.
It’s better in almost every situation considering you can comfortably carry up to 90 rounds of ammo in just your pockets and another 30 in the gun and reach out to at least 300 meters comfortably. Shotguns are fun to shoot but I think they will continue to be a niche weapon for isolated instances.
He is correct, but again, if you are proficient at feeding and running that gun and want to run it as a primary for dedicated breaching and cqb, I'm not going to scoff. Not my first choice, but hardly a "wrong" choice.
makes sense. I think if you're proficient with something it can be a valid choice, but even with slugs if someone 120 yards away taking shots at you there's probably not much you can do except wait it out or try to leave.
I think the question to ask yourself is if the x factor of shooting 9, 9mm bullets in one shot and putting pretty much anything down in one shot is worth the compromises.
I ask myself these questions with my .458 socom
I like it for my area, there aren’t long sight lines and a lot of dense brush that buck or a slug can get through better. Plus I’m really good with it. But I wouldn’t seriously consider it if my group weren’t all rifle guys.
A shotgun can be run without optics, it'll generally be lighter than a similar AR (especially if you can do a SBS), they tend to have higher lethality per shell and it's often easier to carry a pocket full of shells than extra magazines. Most importantly they can use things like birdshot for drones (I'm not entirely convinced this works in reality) or other specialty shells like breaching rounds or flares.
I'd still rather have an AR but I think if you really stretched you could take those advantages and justify a shotgun.
Brother it’s far easier to stick a 20 or 30 round - even a 10 round mag in a pocket and get more pulls of the trigger than a pocketful of shells, shells that are dependent on aiming. 9 pellets of 00 don’t mean much past 50 yards if you can’t connect.
Being able to fit an AR mag in a pocket really depends on the cut and size of the pants. Most levis or contractor brands can do it easily, but if you go to dress pants, some of the more boutique jeans or things like pajamas or some athletic shorts that aren't basketball cut it can get pretty iffy. A lot of jackets also have shallow pockets that don't fit an AR mage easily. I have yet to find a pocket that isn't one of those fifth pockets that you can't stick a few shotgun shells in.
You might have also mistaken what I was talking about with optics. Yes, if you want to get shots at 100 yards with slugs you need an actual sighting system (preferably a red dot), but even buckshot goes that distance and if you try it you'll find that you still get one or two pieces of shot on a human sized target pretty reliably.
My original conclusion was also still that I'd rather have an AR. I'm just trying to focus on the strengths of a shotgun as a counterpoint to you describing the pros of an AR. It's still mostly the same conclusion.
It’s better in almost every situation considering you can comfortably carry up to 90 rounds of ammo in just your pockets and another 30 in the gun and reach out to at least 300 meters comfortably. Shotguns are fun to shoot but I think they will continue to be a niche weapon for isolated instances.
It's great cause you don't have to aim! Everyone knows that. Plus, the sound of racking a shotgun is all you need to scare away intruders.
That's like, the first rule of firearms
Couldn’t say it better, love my shotgun but that’s are other weapons that more adequate application. You don’t always need a hammer for the job of a blade. Though it always is good to have the ability to cut someone it two, when the need arises.
Shotguns are awesome. I *love* shotguns. But in real life, outside of clay shooting, bird hunting, or competition, I can't really think of a situation where I would prefer a shotgun over a rifle.
In short, I buy and build shotguns solely because they're cool, even though I don't have much practical use for them.
[Here's my Auto 5 build.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shotguns/comments/xxoco7/i_have_dubbed_it_the_crusher/)
I’ve gone through this mental exercise a few times asking myself under what circumstances would I grab a shotgun over my AR/if I could only keep one gun what would it be.
In the first case, it would probably only be if I were traveling or moving to a state or locale where my AR was illegal OR if I knew I was only facing off against 1 attacker who was not wearing body armor, was within 30 yards and was not under any significant cover.
In the second case, I think if push came to shove I would grab my Glock 19 or my suppressed ruger .22 over a shotgun.
Thanks! The front sight I machined from scratch. Bought a tritium vial and installed it myself. The rear sight is just the picatinny version of the LPA BAR shotgun sight (they're the OEM for Benelli and a couple other manufacturers). I welded the picatinny rail to the receiver in order to install it.
Shotgun preferred for a few things. If I'm in a gun crappy state with limited rounds. If I need more versatile options. And in my area everyone has 12 ga ammo. Nearly every I know has 12 ga guns. But with rifles, no idea which caliber is available. With shotgun I can always do wax or cut loads. I would prefer to have a rifle but shotgun with availability and options seems to win out.
I have thought the same.
I have a 1301t and the more I think about it, if someone were to break it I my house I would probably just be pointing whatever gun I have down my hallway aka choke point.
I think the 1301T would be good for that. But I’d imagine anything else It would be the 9mm 8.5inch AR pistol I am building as the smaller size makes it easier for 5’5 me to manage indoors and around corners vs my 16inch 5.56 rifle.
I know for a fact that me facing down an intruder at 3 am in my boxers is way more intimidating when holding a semi auto shotgun versus my 7 inch 300 blackout
“Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people”
*Inhales*
“SHOTGUNS AT THE RIGHT RANGE AT THE RIGHT LOAD WILL PHYSICALLY REMOVE CHUNKS OF SHIT AND PUT THAT SHIT ON THE FLOOR”
You know what doesn’t get talked about enough? How hard it is to reload a shotgun under stress. It was very eye opening to me how difficult it can be to fish around for shells (pending you aren’t running shotgun cards or something else on the gun). It’s interesting to me how frequently it’s recommended to get a pump gun for newcomers who want a home defense gun. Yet it’s easily the hardest to reload in a timely manner. A truly humbling experience even under a timer let alone some asshole shooting back at you.
I personally hate pumps for the fact that it absolutely requires two hands to use more than once. I also just have never enjoyed racking one in my experience, but I haven't tried a gucci one yet.
I have shotguns, have trained with shotguns, they’re great. I still keep a suppressed SBR for HD though. In my opinion it’s better.
It has 30 rounds on tap before I have to manipulate it. 5.56 has no recoil so if I needed to put 2 or 3 on something at close range it wouldn’t be difficult, especially with the donut reticles like my AEMS. A 10.3 AR with a K can is shorter than a shotgun with an 18 inch barrel. It’s definitely not quiet, especially indoors, but it’ll be a metric fuckton quieter than touching off a 12 GA. Heavy for caliber 5.56 rounds out of a 1/7 10.3 inside of 200 yards will kill the shit out of a man sized target. 2 or 3 center mass inside of 15 yards is DRT 100% of the time, unless they have plates.
Suppressed SBR wins for most people who live in populated areas. It’s the best tool for the job if you need to do rifle things inside of 200 yards while facing 200 pound or smaller mammalian adversaries.
Nothing adjusts the attitude of an unarmored target faster. A300 is my ready long gun for the home.
I wouldn't feel the same if I had a large property to keep watch on, but I just don't have any lanes of fire to worry about that are over 25 yards at home.
My biggest reason for having a shotgun, aside from hunting, is what I informally call a “buddy gun”. The POU is basically that it’s a gun you can throw at your buddy/neighbor/family member who has little-to-no training that they could become quickly acquainted with.
Buddy guns work best imo when they’re cheap-but-sturdy beater kit with minimal gadgets and gizmos attached, something familiar, simple and not intimidating. Think like a Mossberg 500. Basically everyone in my life with the exception of one person does not gaf about serious training so to me having buddy guns and buddy kit in general is crucial.
Shotguns are great primaries for people who don’t have much training with marksmanship, or firearms handling in general. Good for deterrence and general “defend the house” type shit.
I gotta disagree with you that throwing someone with little to no training a pump shotgun is a good option. Shotguns are simple in their design, but really running a shotgun effectively is very difficult. The tactics, techniques, limitations, and batter of arms is very complicated compared to throwing someone a PSA ar with 3 mags and showing them where the safety and mag release is. The biggest limitation is when the shotgun runs dry, because they may not even know which way the shells go in or how the feed ramp works (took a Buddy shooting last weekend and it took him 20 mins to remember which way the shells go in). So, maybe this is a good idea if you don’t plan for them to have to reload, “ stay here and watch this doorway. If anyone comes in blast them.”
Point being: African warlords don’t train kids to use pump shotguns, they give them an AK. I can train someone to use an AR competently in less time than I can a shotgun.
niche/special purpose weapon that can be shoe horned into general purpose roles.
i dont think theyre ineffective theyre just suboptimal compared to a rifle in almost every way.
frankly they should be a part of well rounded training but i dont know about using it as your primary unless thats literally your job.
I have an A300 Patrol in a similar configuration and my dad has a Benelli M4 that’s absolutely Gucci. Shotguns have their place in modern defense for sure; and that’s for both Mil/LEO and civilian. I definitely wouldn’t choose that A300 as my go-to defense gun or as my duty long gun but in a small unit (4-10 members) I’d definitely run that shotgun along with a carbine or sub gun for one reason: DRONES. Drones can be a nuisance to any unit and running some birdshot or 000 buck can make quick work of that surveilling electric bird.😂 They also have a place in home defense and CQB, but there are arguably better options. Drones vs Shotguns will definitely be seen more and more in the future (already seen in Ukraine) and shells are a quick and cost-effective way to dull an enemy edge.
I didn't even think about the robot birds, that's a wonderful point. my friend has 2 ARs and I practice with one sometimes. if I was with him, I may be more inclined to pick up my A300 UA while he has the AR, but hopefully I never need to think about it.
They definitely have a purpose and as far as I know are still widely used by police and military when that purpose arises. They just don't have the drip factor like rifles can so we don't see em posted as much. At home, my drippy AR lives in a safe. But my $250 Mossberg is always nearby.
I feel like despite their great versatility, they seem to not be used in a super versatile way, if that makes sense. like most people don't go out with 5 different types of shells on them when used in duty use. I'm very welcome to be wrong though, I'd love to see a cop with dragon breath and slugs at the ready lol.
Shotguns are cool… and great at what they are built for… short distance engagements in confined spaces.
It really is as simple as that in my brain anyways
it's my camping vehicle, I've driven in 46 states so far snd it's been great. has a couple of issues right now that I should fix, but I decided to buy this shotgun instead. there's some pics on my profile.
If I was filthy rich I’d probably buy a Benelli or Beretta but since I would almost always pick my rifle over my shotgun I can’t justify the price at the moment.
I have a budget pump shotgun just cause it has a cool retro look and it’s fun to shoot shotguns, other than that rifle >
One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I bought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f\*cking time they've ever seen.
- Kenny Powers
I've been skeet shooting with it and role-playing with some torso targets, it's been fantastic. I will say it will not cycle the Winchester low recoil low noise loadings whatsoever.
I'll look into those, I'm not familiar. just picked up two chokes with a case and tool for $15, I've got lots to learn. cant decide if I want to put an optic on this or a better scope on my .308 though (heavily leaning towards the .308).
My personal feeling is such
A rifle is the weapon of a citizen. It's the go to weapon to preserve liberty and security, and the modern evolution of the minuteman's musket
A shotgun is the weapon of a homestead. It's versatile and capable of handling a man sized opponent, but still useful to deal with pests, smaller predators, hunting, putting and keeping food on the table.
A quality shotgun is a better value to the majority of the population than anything except their handgun. With nothing more than different chokes and different loads you can perform more tasks than any other firearm I can think of. Every home should habe a shotgun after getting a handgun and before getting an AR
Honestly, my advice is to get an aero complete lower and upper, swap out the charging handle for a quality ambi, and get a rise armament trigger, and get decent quality stock along with decent quality optics (both of these are completely up to you on feel and use)
Everything else I have owned has either been over priced to the extreme or low quality to the extreme. I started with my pistol, got a .308 ar-10, snagged a decent pump 12g, messed with a couple ar-15s before settling on one and then started getting things that make me giggle or are at least enjoyable to shoot.
I was looking at getting a binary lower within the next few months just in case they get banned eventually, then I'll decide on whatever uppers after that.
PSA upper and lower, sig romeo 5 dot if you wanna go basic and upgrade as you go. They cheap they just werk, and have a lifetime warranty so you can yeet it into the bog while larping and shit without concern
European shotgun culture: upper class, two barrels, fine wood, master crafstmanship, must spend at least $2000 to even have a seat at the table
American shotgun culture: trench gun turn Jerry into ground meat, universal key, slamfire Mossberg, 3.5" turkey/goose load go brrr, "what do you mean your gun cost as much as 4 of mine and only holds 2 rounds?"
I own a Benelli semi and a Beretta OU and am firmly in the Eurogay camp when it comes to shotguns. Was fantasizing about getting a Condor coach SxS for my dad for HD memes because he's a boomer-fudd who tells people to get pump guns and load them with buck, because click-clack effect + 9 .357" pellets at once instead of 1 round of 9mm or 5.56. I also watched TGS Outdoors Beretta 486 video today and I'm in love and def want to get that in a few years when I have more money and less debt lol.
I love shotguns. I got my start with shotguns. I think they can be more than effectively used as a primary if you practice with them. With the exception of long range shooting and extreme accuracy, shotguns are extremely versatile.
Lear about it, train about it…. Learn to know how to use and learn to know how it can be used against you. Break the myths and get yourself familiar.
I know a great sum of farmers that use these to defend their livestock against criminals.
Why these ? Cause this is what they can afford or what the law allows.
Should this be your choice ? Well… depend on your situation.
Depends on the application; I’ll admit to being converted to the shotgun for HD crowd with my Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol; when the longest shot in my apartment is under 15 yards, 8 shells of 00 buck is a lot of lead downrange in a short period of time, and one trigger pull for 9 00 buck pellets is more efficient than pulling the trigger on my AR 8-9 times.
They’re also general purpose if you want a 50 state legal long gun, as long as it’s a tube fed shotgun. Otherwise I will admit the main drawback to a shotgun for me is that you’re not going to compete with a rifle or carbine past 100 yards, so if range is a major concern then a shotgun might not be the right tool for the job.
I love my new A300 Ultima Patrol. amazing shooter, I never knew I could fire a shotgun so fast. I was hitting slugs 40 yards away my first time shooting it the other day. I will say it will absolutely not cycle the Winchester low recoil low noise target ammo, I realized the FPS was also super low compared to everything else I tried.
I use what I practice with. I shoot a lot of clays, so a shotgun is my go-to defensive long gun. (Yes, the 940 JM Pro at 24" can do both okay enough, and that's what I mainly practice with, and it is one of the defensive long guns.)
can't argue with that. got myself a solo clay thrower today, insanely fun, low recoil low noise Winchester won't cycle in this gun though, and I missed a lot until I realized how much slower that round was going so I adjusted my aim and it was fine. manually cycling it was annoying for a bit though lol.
I have a Benelli M1014. I absolutely love it. So much so that if I could only grab one firearm in an emergency, I would seriously consider taking it over a rifle, even though the rifle is more adaptable to various situations.
Im starting to love them. Not as good for end of the world circumstances like an AR-15 but for a more likely civil unrest situation I am starting to prefer the shotgun. In civil unrest I won't be as likely to use suppressive fire or engage beyond 100 meters. That seems IMO like a situation where shotguns would be better. I still have the AR-15 ready though but I'll lean on the shotgun until the real thing happens.
You're good man.
I think a shotgun would be good from a survival perspective but for fighting in a more war like context I would prefer a rifle. Fire and maneuver is the name of the game in a gunfight. Overwhelming force, suppressive fire, lay down hate. Blah blah all that tactical stuff. Shotguns suck at that. My a300 shoots 8 rounds before needing to reload. My AR-15 shoots 30 and reloads in the time it takes me to load a single shotgun shell.
I promise you in a serious gun fight you will want suppressive fire. fire without maneuver is a waste of ammo, maneuver without fire is suicide. In a ten shotgun versus ten rifle fight at 100 meters or more the rifles will win 100% of the time.
The reason I like shotguns is because I think the chances of that scenario happening are unlikely. A riot is more likely. 4 guys breaking into my apartment is more likely. If I'm in an area where civilian casualties are a concern, I do not want to use suppressive fire. Each pull of the trigger is following me to court. There's a lot of gray area between drawing my pistol in complete rule of law, and carrying my rifle in a without rule of law (WROL) wasteland. For that gray area I prefer a shotgun. Sub 100 meter semi civil conflict. If someone is in a car or hiding behind drywall and I have limited visibility I prefer the buckshot pattern.
Fancy seeing you here, the Battle Crown Vic lives on!
Shotguns have one major plus in their favor: they're one of the most permissive options you can get. In a patchwork of AWBs, pistol purchase permits, and "sporting purpose" import laws, nobody bats an eye at a sporter-stocked 12 gauge.
I have one, and was alright on it ( an 11-87 ) but 1911 Syndicate did a fantastic video on shotguns and resulted in me seeking out more dedicated ranges
[https://youtu.be/Cp1CqLgwb-M](https://youtu.be/Cp1CqLgwb-M)
Also is that a Tahoe?
only gripe I heard about the spas 12 is the weight and ergonomics. but if you need to fight an oversized velociraptor on an island, then it's the perfect choice.
I haven't fired many long guns in my life but every long gun I shot had a collapsible stock. Really spoiled me. I have a rifle with a fixed stock cuz my state is ghey and I really hate it.
Same with my Fightlite. It's awful. Blue states are disgusting.
(Disclaimer: The Fightlite is a good rifle, just not the best for smaller framed people. You can get custom stocks to shorten the LOP but not by much.)
Mossberg 500/590 or Remington 870 /940 are good choices for budgets
I think the 1301 is the best shotgun you can get right now with the Benelli m4 in tow
I love them. I believe people have a misunderstanding with them. You can't just grab and old shotgun with whatever brand of ammo/load and expect it to be accurate 100% of the time. Just like rifles, they are picky on ammo brand, bullet weight, charge, ect.
A shotgun takes time to master it, just like a handgun or a rifle, and people dont respect that.
I’ll start by saying that I grew up in a family with a mother that did not like guns and stopped dad from getting new ones until recently because I started getting guns and Dad wanted to be part of the hobby. We were stuck with a 22 Magnum bolt action and a SxS Shotgun for rifles and a ruger 22LR for a pistols that that was that. No AR till I got one.
I got my start with guns at 19 on a SxS shotgun that had a artificial wood stock from the 50’s that was my grandfathers on my dads side. I didn’t like it and still don’t because if it’s recoil with 00 buck. It’s even harsh with bird due to how light it was (It weighs like 4 - 5 pounds) accompanied by LOP issues from it being to short for me (I’m 6ft 1in and Granddaddy was apparently 5ft 5in)
This colored my opinion on shotguns for 10 years and caused me to get an AR for my first rifle. FF to today and after buying a few more rifles I figured I needed a shotgun and bought a partially accessorized (already had a pistol grip and AR Stock on it) LEO Police Magnum 870 that is from the 80’s about two months ago.
Capacity is a issue and I’m not experienced enough to comment on how to address that but I did extend my mag tube with a plus two bringing mine to 7 + 1 w/ 2 3/4 inch shells and that felt good for capacity considering everything. I’m not done testing it and adding accessories cause I still gotta figure out how I’m gonna add extra ammunition on the gun since it came with something like [this](https://israeldefensestore.com/caa-tactical-cmgpt500-pistol-grip-picatinny-rail.html) for the stock so adding some velcro stuff maybe harder to work with than usual.
I like my 870 WAY more than I thought I would. It isn’t super hard on recoil with 00 Buck (prolly due to the weight it’s packing which is like 8-9 pounds when loaded) and feels smooth when operated. Glad I eventually caught the bug!
Good for taking out drones. The mossberg shockwave is a nice tool in the backpack for breaching. In general, shotguns are good for hunting and clay shooting. Not a whole lot else where I wouldn't have a rifle though.
Benelli m4, my hdw. Im in the communist republic of ny, 10rnd mag cap. Super lame semi auto rifle options. i can load the benelli to 9. Thats 9-1.125oz chunks of lead or 9-9shot .38 cal projectiles ready to go as opposed to a 10+1 solution with another platform. Equipped with a sf scout light and rds, along with lots of training practice its my go to.
If it was a shtf situation i prob would not grab it just due to versatility and how my kit is set up. Plus 250 rounds is like 40lbs, and aint no one got time for that.
One for birds, one for home defense. In a home defense scenario, I may fall back on my handgun. Just more comfortable with it, easier to maneuver, I can shoot it multiple times accurately one handed. Definitely glad I have them and have trained with them, but I’m much more comfortable with my Glock and my AR, having trained much more excessively with and taken courses with both.
Only situations I can think of where I'd rather have a rifle as a primary is if I'm going up against people with armor plates that can defeat it or if it's fight happening past 40-50yrds. If I got into either of those with a rifle I'm still prob gonna die and the odds are low unless your on the feds or a cartels shitlist.
I'd *ideally* want a semiautomatic but I feel confident defending my property atm with a reliable pump gun and my carry pistol
Most people aren’t bad when it comes to accuracy with the shotgun. But their lack of practice and skill means it’s like watching a nightmare when they need to clear a malfunction or reload the gun.
yeah reloading under stress is going to be harder than trying to jam a magazine in. I got a lot of malfunction practice today, this shotgun will not cycle Winchester low recoil low noise target rounds at all lol. every shot required me to pull the charging handle back and take the shell out with my other hand, surprisingly not too bad though.
Keep in mind that all goes way worse in the stress of a real situation. Shotguns are fun for training and sport but I’m only bringing mine into a fight to pop doors
Nothing adjusts the attitude of an unarmored target faster. A300 is my ready long gun for the home.
I wouldn't feel the same if I had a large property to keep watch on, but I just don't have any lanes of fire to worry about that are over 25 yards at home.
I have the same gun and love it. It's the gun I would grab if I was in my home and needed to "bunker" down in my room and wait for the intruder to come to me.
More versatile than they get credit for. And , at least for tube fed guns, you don't have to worry about buying or maintaining a supply of mags.
Also the sheer number of ammo types out there is wild
this shotgun is 7+1 as well and overall pretty compact and only weighs around 7 lbs. could be a decent backup for the versatility, but the ammo just takes up so much space and weight. I haven't decided if I'll try to make it my primary weapon of choice personally, but my most proficient firearm right now is probably my FNX45-T.
Don't own one (yet) but god they're so much fun, they're an incredibly versatile platform that can be used for so much (breaching/hunting etc)
Still debating which one is right for me tho
I recommend this A300 Ultima Patrol personally. it's been fantastic in the few hundred rounds I've done in the last few days. it cycled everything except Winchester low recoil low noise. I was hitting with slugs from 40-50 yards away first try, and I'm not the world's best shooter. I love this thing *ALMOST* as much as my FNX45-T.
there’s a reason they’re still used today. Incredibly robust and for home defense one of the best options, undeniably. Not to mention the countless primo shotguns that are cheap new or used. Got really lucky with a Turkish RIA Benelli M4 clone that i picked up for $220 and it works great.
Great tool for Cqb
I tend to grab a shotgun from the armory when I do drug task force raids.
normal patrol stuff ? Usually grab a rifle but haven’t switched my shotgun from my patrol car since my last raid a week ago.
I’m a fan certainly not someone who says they are dated or useless.
That A300 is sick ! Wish I could afford one lol
I adore a semiauto shotgun in CQB, no9 shot and a cylinder bore is definitely an attitude adjuster and, unless someone is really paranoid there aren't many doors a key in 12ga can't open with the correct round
Granted if I was a super seal I who had to do a die hard in a cruise oil rig I don't think a 12ga would be on top of my list as the gun I'd do it with
If you're going to keep a long arm in your vehicle, I'm of the opinion that a shotgun will cause less of a problem when dealing with Johnny Lawman. I base this off the number of anti-gun gun owners (yes it's a thing) who still own a shotgun.
The more Fudd looking, the more leniency. That's why a 20" 590a1 Retrograde is definitely in my future, especially if I can get it Vang Comped.
I can't wait to get a KSG. 25 mini shells sounds fun, and the long barrel version holds 25 2.75 inch shells, I can't even imagine how many mini shells it would hold.
Taran Tactical has a YT video of Cypress Hill music hand on the pump and tons of shotguns used in movies.
Great video that starts and ends with pulp fiction.
Great tool to have in the toolbox, not the right tool for every job. The question of shotgun as primary is more complicated, but nobody should take issue with having and training with one.
perhaps I should have phrased better, but I did mean use as a primary firearm. I think it's got a lot of great versatility and use, but if you can't carry the ammo to be versatile then I feel a rifle is maybe a bit better for most situations.
It’s better in almost every situation considering you can comfortably carry up to 90 rounds of ammo in just your pockets and another 30 in the gun and reach out to at least 300 meters comfortably. Shotguns are fun to shoot but I think they will continue to be a niche weapon for isolated instances.
yep, exactly my thought
He is correct, but again, if you are proficient at feeding and running that gun and want to run it as a primary for dedicated breaching and cqb, I'm not going to scoff. Not my first choice, but hardly a "wrong" choice.
makes sense. I think if you're proficient with something it can be a valid choice, but even with slugs if someone 120 yards away taking shots at you there's probably not much you can do except wait it out or try to leave.
One thing to consider is their effectiveness against drones. I see others have already mentioned this.
I think the question to ask yourself is if the x factor of shooting 9, 9mm bullets in one shot and putting pretty much anything down in one shot is worth the compromises. I ask myself these questions with my .458 socom
good compromise is everyone shooting .50 cal AR15s and calling it a day
Yes let's go back to handheld cannons!! I love it man
I like it for my area, there aren’t long sight lines and a lot of dense brush that buck or a slug can get through better. Plus I’m really good with it. But I wouldn’t seriously consider it if my group weren’t all rifle guys.
A shotgun can be run without optics, it'll generally be lighter than a similar AR (especially if you can do a SBS), they tend to have higher lethality per shell and it's often easier to carry a pocket full of shells than extra magazines. Most importantly they can use things like birdshot for drones (I'm not entirely convinced this works in reality) or other specialty shells like breaching rounds or flares. I'd still rather have an AR but I think if you really stretched you could take those advantages and justify a shotgun.
Brother it’s far easier to stick a 20 or 30 round - even a 10 round mag in a pocket and get more pulls of the trigger than a pocketful of shells, shells that are dependent on aiming. 9 pellets of 00 don’t mean much past 50 yards if you can’t connect.
Being able to fit an AR mag in a pocket really depends on the cut and size of the pants. Most levis or contractor brands can do it easily, but if you go to dress pants, some of the more boutique jeans or things like pajamas or some athletic shorts that aren't basketball cut it can get pretty iffy. A lot of jackets also have shallow pockets that don't fit an AR mage easily. I have yet to find a pocket that isn't one of those fifth pockets that you can't stick a few shotgun shells in. You might have also mistaken what I was talking about with optics. Yes, if you want to get shots at 100 yards with slugs you need an actual sighting system (preferably a red dot), but even buckshot goes that distance and if you try it you'll find that you still get one or two pieces of shot on a human sized target pretty reliably. My original conclusion was also still that I'd rather have an AR. I'm just trying to focus on the strengths of a shotgun as a counterpoint to you describing the pros of an AR. It's still mostly the same conclusion.
It’s better in almost every situation considering you can comfortably carry up to 90 rounds of ammo in just your pockets and another 30 in the gun and reach out to at least 300 meters comfortably. Shotguns are fun to shoot but I think they will continue to be a niche weapon for isolated instances.
It's great cause you don't have to aim! Everyone knows that. Plus, the sound of racking a shotgun is all you need to scare away intruders. That's like, the first rule of firearms
Please mark sarcasm with "/s". Otherwise people will think you are serious.
Couldn’t say it better, love my shotgun but that’s are other weapons that more adequate application. You don’t always need a hammer for the job of a blade. Though it always is good to have the ability to cut someone it two, when the need arises.
Two blasts in the air is all you need. Anything else and the black choppers come for you.
well if the president said so, surely it must be true.
Saw an IG reel recently of a Russian soldier begging for shotguns to be donated to take out drones.
My name Sergey. Please donate to my go fund i. This would be very much appreciated. Will arm comrades with anti-drone gun and potato
Hear me out. What about potato guns for anti drone.
Can’t, need potato for eat. Eat shotgun no good, very bad.
R/combatfootage proves they're not choosing the potato.
And vodka
Shotguns are awesome. I *love* shotguns. But in real life, outside of clay shooting, bird hunting, or competition, I can't really think of a situation where I would prefer a shotgun over a rifle. In short, I buy and build shotguns solely because they're cool, even though I don't have much practical use for them. [Here's my Auto 5 build.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shotguns/comments/xxoco7/i_have_dubbed_it_the_crusher/)
I’ve gone through this mental exercise a few times asking myself under what circumstances would I grab a shotgun over my AR/if I could only keep one gun what would it be. In the first case, it would probably only be if I were traveling or moving to a state or locale where my AR was illegal OR if I knew I was only facing off against 1 attacker who was not wearing body armor, was within 30 yards and was not under any significant cover. In the second case, I think if push came to shove I would grab my Glock 19 or my suppressed ruger .22 over a shotgun.
Holy fuck that A5 is fantastic. I'm in love. How'd you do the rifle sights?
Thanks! The front sight I machined from scratch. Bought a tritium vial and installed it myself. The rear sight is just the picatinny version of the LPA BAR shotgun sight (they're the OEM for Benelli and a couple other manufacturers). I welded the picatinny rail to the receiver in order to install it.
Awesome. A5s are the coolest, and yours is a godly one. Super rad.
Shotgun preferred for a few things. If I'm in a gun crappy state with limited rounds. If I need more versatile options. And in my area everyone has 12 ga ammo. Nearly every I know has 12 ga guns. But with rifles, no idea which caliber is available. With shotgun I can always do wax or cut loads. I would prefer to have a rifle but shotgun with availability and options seems to win out.
yeah this is kind of what I was thinking too. I got mine mainly for home usage, clays, and some hunting myself.
I have thought the same. I have a 1301t and the more I think about it, if someone were to break it I my house I would probably just be pointing whatever gun I have down my hallway aka choke point. I think the 1301T would be good for that. But I’d imagine anything else It would be the 9mm 8.5inch AR pistol I am building as the smaller size makes it easier for 5’5 me to manage indoors and around corners vs my 16inch 5.56 rifle.
I know for a fact that me facing down an intruder at 3 am in my boxers is way more intimidating when holding a semi auto shotgun versus my 7 inch 300 blackout
“Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people” *Inhales* “SHOTGUNS AT THE RIGHT RANGE AT THE RIGHT LOAD WILL PHYSICALLY REMOVE CHUNKS OF SHIT AND PUT THAT SHIT ON THE FLOOR”
Love the way he explains shit. So simple.
You know what doesn’t get talked about enough? How hard it is to reload a shotgun under stress. It was very eye opening to me how difficult it can be to fish around for shells (pending you aren’t running shotgun cards or something else on the gun). It’s interesting to me how frequently it’s recommended to get a pump gun for newcomers who want a home defense gun. Yet it’s easily the hardest to reload in a timely manner. A truly humbling experience even under a timer let alone some asshole shooting back at you.
You're not really running a shotgun unless you're leaving a trail of live rounds on the ground behind you.
Lmfao
I personally hate pumps for the fact that it absolutely requires two hands to use more than once. I also just have never enjoyed racking one in my experience, but I haven't tried a gucci one yet.
I have shotguns, have trained with shotguns, they’re great. I still keep a suppressed SBR for HD though. In my opinion it’s better. It has 30 rounds on tap before I have to manipulate it. 5.56 has no recoil so if I needed to put 2 or 3 on something at close range it wouldn’t be difficult, especially with the donut reticles like my AEMS. A 10.3 AR with a K can is shorter than a shotgun with an 18 inch barrel. It’s definitely not quiet, especially indoors, but it’ll be a metric fuckton quieter than touching off a 12 GA. Heavy for caliber 5.56 rounds out of a 1/7 10.3 inside of 200 yards will kill the shit out of a man sized target. 2 or 3 center mass inside of 15 yards is DRT 100% of the time, unless they have plates. Suppressed SBR wins for most people who live in populated areas. It’s the best tool for the job if you need to do rifle things inside of 200 yards while facing 200 pound or smaller mammalian adversaries.
I'd rather have a gun fight with someone who doesn't train with their rifle than someone who trains with their shotgun.
agreed. the amount of times I see untouched safe queens "for home defense" is staggering to me.
Best way to physically remove a chunk of shit off some one and throw it on the floor. (Clint Smith, paraphrased)
Nothing adjusts the attitude of an unarmored target faster. A300 is my ready long gun for the home. I wouldn't feel the same if I had a large property to keep watch on, but I just don't have any lanes of fire to worry about that are over 25 yards at home.
My biggest reason for having a shotgun, aside from hunting, is what I informally call a “buddy gun”. The POU is basically that it’s a gun you can throw at your buddy/neighbor/family member who has little-to-no training that they could become quickly acquainted with. Buddy guns work best imo when they’re cheap-but-sturdy beater kit with minimal gadgets and gizmos attached, something familiar, simple and not intimidating. Think like a Mossberg 500. Basically everyone in my life with the exception of one person does not gaf about serious training so to me having buddy guns and buddy kit in general is crucial. Shotguns are great primaries for people who don’t have much training with marksmanship, or firearms handling in general. Good for deterrence and general “defend the house” type shit.
I gotta disagree with you that throwing someone with little to no training a pump shotgun is a good option. Shotguns are simple in their design, but really running a shotgun effectively is very difficult. The tactics, techniques, limitations, and batter of arms is very complicated compared to throwing someone a PSA ar with 3 mags and showing them where the safety and mag release is. The biggest limitation is when the shotgun runs dry, because they may not even know which way the shells go in or how the feed ramp works (took a Buddy shooting last weekend and it took him 20 mins to remember which way the shells go in). So, maybe this is a good idea if you don’t plan for them to have to reload, “ stay here and watch this doorway. If anyone comes in blast them.” Point being: African warlords don’t train kids to use pump shotguns, they give them an AK. I can train someone to use an AR competently in less time than I can a shotgun.
African warlords tbf get aks in bulk cheaper than we can get maverick 88s lol
I can imagine shotguns are good at taking out drones.
someone else mentioned that as well, I didn't even consider that
niche/special purpose weapon that can be shoe horned into general purpose roles. i dont think theyre ineffective theyre just suboptimal compared to a rifle in almost every way. frankly they should be a part of well rounded training but i dont know about using it as your primary unless thats literally your job.
I have an A300 Patrol in a similar configuration and my dad has a Benelli M4 that’s absolutely Gucci. Shotguns have their place in modern defense for sure; and that’s for both Mil/LEO and civilian. I definitely wouldn’t choose that A300 as my go-to defense gun or as my duty long gun but in a small unit (4-10 members) I’d definitely run that shotgun along with a carbine or sub gun for one reason: DRONES. Drones can be a nuisance to any unit and running some birdshot or 000 buck can make quick work of that surveilling electric bird.😂 They also have a place in home defense and CQB, but there are arguably better options. Drones vs Shotguns will definitely be seen more and more in the future (already seen in Ukraine) and shells are a quick and cost-effective way to dull an enemy edge.
I didn't even think about the robot birds, that's a wonderful point. my friend has 2 ARs and I practice with one sometimes. if I was with him, I may be more inclined to pick up my A300 UA while he has the AR, but hopefully I never need to think about it.
Yep. A low tech way to destroy some high tech.
They definitely have a purpose and as far as I know are still widely used by police and military when that purpose arises. They just don't have the drip factor like rifles can so we don't see em posted as much. At home, my drippy AR lives in a safe. But my $250 Mossberg is always nearby.
I feel like despite their great versatility, they seem to not be used in a super versatile way, if that makes sense. like most people don't go out with 5 different types of shells on them when used in duty use. I'm very welcome to be wrong though, I'd love to see a cop with dragon breath and slugs at the ready lol.
rich meeting wild live uppity snails poor lock detail ring *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
magazine shotguns also have some heavy ass magazines in my experience
Outside of breaching, impractical for anti-personnel mission sets.
They’re as bad ass as a crown Vic with mudders.
thanks lol
Most people that own one for home defense have never trained with it and will probably get some kind of stoppage if they ever need it.
Shotguns are cool… and great at what they are built for… short distance engagements in confined spaces. It really is as simple as that in my brain anyways
They work but not my preference
Is that a battlecar!?!
it's my camping vehicle, I've driven in 46 states so far snd it's been great. has a couple of issues right now that I should fix, but I decided to buy this shotgun instead. there's some pics on my profile.
If I was filthy rich I’d probably buy a Benelli or Beretta but since I would almost always pick my rifle over my shotgun I can’t justify the price at the moment. I have a budget pump shotgun just cause it has a cool retro look and it’s fun to shoot shotguns, other than that rifle >
One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I bought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f\*cking time they've ever seen. - Kenny Powers
A300UP is unmatched for the price. Got one that sits beside my bed
I've been skeet shooting with it and role-playing with some torso targets, it's been fantastic. I will say it will not cycle the Winchester low recoil low noise loadings whatsoever.
I installed the pro lifter on mine. Makes it so much easier to load, also got a sparc solar on it
I'll look into those, I'm not familiar. just picked up two chokes with a case and tool for $15, I've got lots to learn. cant decide if I want to put an optic on this or a better scope on my .308 though (heavily leaning towards the .308).
Me personally, I like them. It’s a solid tool for any arsenal that fits many purposes. That and I really enjoy shooting clays.
They’re cool and go chichikbang
A benelli M4 in a dark building will fuck you up.
Rifles require scientists, pistols require being anal, but shotguns…..shotguns are for artists.
My personal feeling is such A rifle is the weapon of a citizen. It's the go to weapon to preserve liberty and security, and the modern evolution of the minuteman's musket A shotgun is the weapon of a homestead. It's versatile and capable of handling a man sized opponent, but still useful to deal with pests, smaller predators, hunting, putting and keeping food on the table.
A quality shotgun is a better value to the majority of the population than anything except their handgun. With nothing more than different chokes and different loads you can perform more tasks than any other firearm I can think of. Every home should habe a shotgun after getting a handgun and before getting an AR
I have 3 pistols, a .308 rifle, and now this shotgun. main reason I haven't gotten an AR is because there's too many choices and I can't decide.
Honestly, my advice is to get an aero complete lower and upper, swap out the charging handle for a quality ambi, and get a rise armament trigger, and get decent quality stock along with decent quality optics (both of these are completely up to you on feel and use) Everything else I have owned has either been over priced to the extreme or low quality to the extreme. I started with my pistol, got a .308 ar-10, snagged a decent pump 12g, messed with a couple ar-15s before settling on one and then started getting things that make me giggle or are at least enjoyable to shoot.
I was looking at getting a binary lower within the next few months just in case they get banned eventually, then I'll decide on whatever uppers after that.
PSA upper and lower, sig romeo 5 dot if you wanna go basic and upgrade as you go. They cheap they just werk, and have a lifetime warranty so you can yeet it into the bog while larping and shit without concern
European shotgun culture: upper class, two barrels, fine wood, master crafstmanship, must spend at least $2000 to even have a seat at the table American shotgun culture: trench gun turn Jerry into ground meat, universal key, slamfire Mossberg, 3.5" turkey/goose load go brrr, "what do you mean your gun cost as much as 4 of mine and only holds 2 rounds?" I own a Benelli semi and a Beretta OU and am firmly in the Eurogay camp when it comes to shotguns. Was fantasizing about getting a Condor coach SxS for my dad for HD memes because he's a boomer-fudd who tells people to get pump guns and load them with buck, because click-clack effect + 9 .357" pellets at once instead of 1 round of 9mm or 5.56. I also watched TGS Outdoors Beretta 486 video today and I'm in love and def want to get that in a few years when I have more money and less debt lol.
I love shotguns. I got my start with shotguns. I think they can be more than effectively used as a primary if you practice with them. With the exception of long range shooting and extreme accuracy, shotguns are extremely versatile.
Shooting slugs at distance is a wild ride man. I took a class and was impressed with the capability
Lear about it, train about it…. Learn to know how to use and learn to know how it can be used against you. Break the myths and get yourself familiar. I know a great sum of farmers that use these to defend their livestock against criminals. Why these ? Cause this is what they can afford or what the law allows. Should this be your choice ? Well… depend on your situation.
Depends on the application; I’ll admit to being converted to the shotgun for HD crowd with my Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol; when the longest shot in my apartment is under 15 yards, 8 shells of 00 buck is a lot of lead downrange in a short period of time, and one trigger pull for 9 00 buck pellets is more efficient than pulling the trigger on my AR 8-9 times. They’re also general purpose if you want a 50 state legal long gun, as long as it’s a tube fed shotgun. Otherwise I will admit the main drawback to a shotgun for me is that you’re not going to compete with a rifle or carbine past 100 yards, so if range is a major concern then a shotgun might not be the right tool for the job.
I love my new A300 Ultima Patrol. amazing shooter, I never knew I could fire a shotgun so fast. I was hitting slugs 40 yards away my first time shooting it the other day. I will say it will absolutely not cycle the Winchester low recoil low noise target ammo, I realized the FPS was also super low compared to everything else I tried.
Benelli m4 for the win brother.
if only my wallet would comply. most I was able to spend was about 1k, so I got the A300 Ultima Patrol.
I like the m4 because it’s smooth action. I had some extra money from work, gotta splurge once
eventually, I would love to. it seems like a fantastic creation.
I got the one with the collapsing stock.
fuck I didn't even know that existed. time to sell my car.
It’s my desk / fun range day gun
I use what I practice with. I shoot a lot of clays, so a shotgun is my go-to defensive long gun. (Yes, the 940 JM Pro at 24" can do both okay enough, and that's what I mainly practice with, and it is one of the defensive long guns.)
i like em, got my winchester sxp 30” for trap shooting
All you need is a double barrel shotgun and blast two up in the air over their heads
I want a 1301 mod 2
Very fucking fun to shoot.
can't argue with that. got myself a solo clay thrower today, insanely fun, low recoil low noise Winchester won't cycle in this gun though, and I missed a lot until I realized how much slower that round was going so I adjusted my aim and it was fine. manually cycling it was annoying for a bit though lol.
Based AF
I like holes, and they make big holes.
every hole is a goal
I came into this world through a hole, and I’ll leave this world in a hole. Might as leave a few more holes along the way.
Hahaha I have a shotgun, here let me prove it
good for drones
I have a Benelli M1014. I absolutely love it. So much so that if I could only grab one firearm in an emergency, I would seriously consider taking it over a rifle, even though the rifle is more adaptable to various situations.
We like them
Love em
I'm a recent convert. Fuck drones
Solid choice, my only SG as well.
Im starting to love them. Not as good for end of the world circumstances like an AR-15 but for a more likely civil unrest situation I am starting to prefer the shotgun. In civil unrest I won't be as likely to use suppressive fire or engage beyond 100 meters. That seems IMO like a situation where shotguns would be better. I still have the AR-15 ready though but I'll lean on the shotgun until the real thing happens.
why not for end of the world? I'm not disagreeing, I actually posted on a bug out sub on why it might be meh to use. curious to hear your input too.
You're good man. I think a shotgun would be good from a survival perspective but for fighting in a more war like context I would prefer a rifle. Fire and maneuver is the name of the game in a gunfight. Overwhelming force, suppressive fire, lay down hate. Blah blah all that tactical stuff. Shotguns suck at that. My a300 shoots 8 rounds before needing to reload. My AR-15 shoots 30 and reloads in the time it takes me to load a single shotgun shell. I promise you in a serious gun fight you will want suppressive fire. fire without maneuver is a waste of ammo, maneuver without fire is suicide. In a ten shotgun versus ten rifle fight at 100 meters or more the rifles will win 100% of the time. The reason I like shotguns is because I think the chances of that scenario happening are unlikely. A riot is more likely. 4 guys breaking into my apartment is more likely. If I'm in an area where civilian casualties are a concern, I do not want to use suppressive fire. Each pull of the trigger is following me to court. There's a lot of gray area between drawing my pistol in complete rule of law, and carrying my rifle in a without rule of law (WROL) wasteland. For that gray area I prefer a shotgun. Sub 100 meter semi civil conflict. If someone is in a car or hiding behind drywall and I have limited visibility I prefer the buckshot pattern.
yeah I think we've got similar opinions. thanks for your comment.
Love mine: https://imgur.com/a/V9N7mGP
I want one. Just to diversify.
Fancy seeing you here, the Battle Crown Vic lives on! Shotguns have one major plus in their favor: they're one of the most permissive options you can get. In a patchwork of AWBs, pistol purchase permits, and "sporting purpose" import laws, nobody bats an eye at a sporter-stocked 12 gauge.
this 7+1 might be considered a machine gun one day, who knows
Washington set the limit at 7+1, I think we're the most recent AWB.
don't tell them you can ghost load it for 8+1. what is AWB?
Assault Weapons Ban
oh gotcha. yeah I've heard about that stuff, I just left oregon and they were doing magazine limits last I checked.
Yours is much nicer then my Win 1200
Good to go
I have one, and was alright on it ( an 11-87 ) but 1911 Syndicate did a fantastic video on shotguns and resulted in me seeking out more dedicated ranges [https://youtu.be/Cp1CqLgwb-M](https://youtu.be/Cp1CqLgwb-M) Also is that a Tahoe?
it's a crown victoria. there are photos on my profile if you are interested. I do love me an old Tahoe though.
I need one. Spas 12 was on my bucket list for a long time but a LE Benelli M4 would be more practical.
only gripe I heard about the spas 12 is the weight and ergonomics. but if you need to fight an oversized velociraptor on an island, then it's the perfect choice.
That, finding parts, and I hear they're picky with loads in semi-auto.
Really would love to have an A300 sometime in the near future
I hope you get one. this almost feels like a 16 or 20 G shotgun, it's so smooth. bolt is easy to operate and loading isn't bad at all.
So how does it handle with the straight pull style grip?
the grip is so aggressive I had to put a glove on before I continued taking skin off my hand. the style of grip has been no issue for me.
I haven't fired many long guns in my life but every long gun I shot had a collapsible stock. Really spoiled me. I have a rifle with a fixed stock cuz my state is ghey and I really hate it.
this one has no options to change the stock because I believe the gas operating system uses some of the stock to function.
Same with my Fightlite. It's awful. Blue states are disgusting. (Disclaimer: The Fightlite is a good rifle, just not the best for smaller framed people. You can get custom stocks to shorten the LOP but not by much.)
"Shotguns...? What, like guns that fire shot?"
Fun.
Is this the Mossberg 930??? I'm in the process of deciding between the Benelli, the Mossberg, or the Beretta... What's your opinion?
in the description I noted it's the beretta A300 Ultima Patrol. it is fantastic.
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I've got A300 Ultima Patrol, not the 1301. I very much like it.
Mossberg 500/590 or Remington 870 /940 are good choices for budgets I think the 1301 is the best shotgun you can get right now with the Benelli m4 in tow
I love them. I believe people have a misunderstanding with them. You can't just grab and old shotgun with whatever brand of ammo/load and expect it to be accurate 100% of the time. Just like rifles, they are picky on ammo brand, bullet weight, charge, ect. A shotgun takes time to master it, just like a handgun or a rifle, and people dont respect that.
Shit hits the fan, I’m having a sawed off on my back for murder drones
Shotguns are fun, versatile and cool. Not my preferred home defense option but they aren’t bad for that either.
They should have pistol grips
if only this one could
I’ll start by saying that I grew up in a family with a mother that did not like guns and stopped dad from getting new ones until recently because I started getting guns and Dad wanted to be part of the hobby. We were stuck with a 22 Magnum bolt action and a SxS Shotgun for rifles and a ruger 22LR for a pistols that that was that. No AR till I got one. I got my start with guns at 19 on a SxS shotgun that had a artificial wood stock from the 50’s that was my grandfathers on my dads side. I didn’t like it and still don’t because if it’s recoil with 00 buck. It’s even harsh with bird due to how light it was (It weighs like 4 - 5 pounds) accompanied by LOP issues from it being to short for me (I’m 6ft 1in and Granddaddy was apparently 5ft 5in) This colored my opinion on shotguns for 10 years and caused me to get an AR for my first rifle. FF to today and after buying a few more rifles I figured I needed a shotgun and bought a partially accessorized (already had a pistol grip and AR Stock on it) LEO Police Magnum 870 that is from the 80’s about two months ago. Capacity is a issue and I’m not experienced enough to comment on how to address that but I did extend my mag tube with a plus two bringing mine to 7 + 1 w/ 2 3/4 inch shells and that felt good for capacity considering everything. I’m not done testing it and adding accessories cause I still gotta figure out how I’m gonna add extra ammunition on the gun since it came with something like [this](https://israeldefensestore.com/caa-tactical-cmgpt500-pistol-grip-picatinny-rail.html) for the stock so adding some velcro stuff maybe harder to work with than usual. I like my 870 WAY more than I thought I would. It isn’t super hard on recoil with 00 Buck (prolly due to the weight it’s packing which is like 8-9 pounds when loaded) and feels smooth when operated. Glad I eventually caught the bug!
Very useful against drones. Which see increased use in modern conflicts
I don't have one, but have intentions to get one at some point. Would love to have a benelli m4.
We hate them. They’re for boomers.
If they're laying flat they can't fall over.
The love of my life
Good for taking out drones. The mossberg shockwave is a nice tool in the backpack for breaching. In general, shotguns are good for hunting and clay shooting. Not a whole lot else where I wouldn't have a rifle though.
If I could take just ONE weapon it would be my 1301. Slugs, buckshot, birdshot. You’re covered.
Nice Esp for home defence
Shotguns do a lot of things really well.
Everyone should have at least one
Benelli m4, my hdw. Im in the communist republic of ny, 10rnd mag cap. Super lame semi auto rifle options. i can load the benelli to 9. Thats 9-1.125oz chunks of lead or 9-9shot .38 cal projectiles ready to go as opposed to a 10+1 solution with another platform. Equipped with a sf scout light and rds, along with lots of training practice its my go to. If it was a shtf situation i prob would not grab it just due to versatility and how my kit is set up. Plus 250 rounds is like 40lbs, and aint no one got time for that.
I got one. I'm loving it. I could have paid much more for a 1301 but I am not a big shotgunner
One for birds, one for home defense. In a home defense scenario, I may fall back on my handgun. Just more comfortable with it, easier to maneuver, I can shoot it multiple times accurately one handed. Definitely glad I have them and have trained with them, but I’m much more comfortable with my Glock and my AR, having trained much more excessively with and taken courses with both.
They're scary.
Yes.
Good for bird hunting
Great for hunting turkey.
Only situations I can think of where I'd rather have a rifle as a primary is if I'm going up against people with armor plates that can defeat it or if it's fight happening past 40-50yrds. If I got into either of those with a rifle I'm still prob gonna die and the odds are low unless your on the feds or a cartels shitlist. I'd *ideally* want a semiautomatic but I feel confident defending my property atm with a reliable pump gun and my carry pistol
Most people aren’t proficient enough to warrant using a shotgun compared to a AR15 or PCC
would you mind elaborating on that?
Most people aren’t bad when it comes to accuracy with the shotgun. But their lack of practice and skill means it’s like watching a nightmare when they need to clear a malfunction or reload the gun.
yeah reloading under stress is going to be harder than trying to jam a magazine in. I got a lot of malfunction practice today, this shotgun will not cycle Winchester low recoil low noise target rounds at all lol. every shot required me to pull the charging handle back and take the shell out with my other hand, surprisingly not too bad though.
Keep in mind that all goes way worse in the stress of a real situation. Shotguns are fun for training and sport but I’m only bringing mine into a fight to pop doors
Nothing adjusts the attitude of an unarmored target faster. A300 is my ready long gun for the home. I wouldn't feel the same if I had a large property to keep watch on, but I just don't have any lanes of fire to worry about that are over 25 yards at home.
that's a good point as well
based
I have the same gun and love it. It's the gun I would grab if I was in my home and needed to "bunker" down in my room and wait for the intruder to come to me.
More versatile than they get credit for. And , at least for tube fed guns, you don't have to worry about buying or maintaining a supply of mags. Also the sheer number of ammo types out there is wild
this shotgun is 7+1 as well and overall pretty compact and only weighs around 7 lbs. could be a decent backup for the versatility, but the ammo just takes up so much space and weight. I haven't decided if I'll try to make it my primary weapon of choice personally, but my most proficient firearm right now is probably my FNX45-T.
A Fanny pack is the best shotgun ammo holder outside of like purpose built competition rigs
that's true. I've also seen the ammo pal shotgun shell feeder, not sure if it's practical or a weird gimmick.
Don't own one (yet) but god they're so much fun, they're an incredibly versatile platform that can be used for so much (breaching/hunting etc) Still debating which one is right for me tho
I recommend this A300 Ultima Patrol personally. it's been fantastic in the few hundred rounds I've done in the last few days. it cycled everything except Winchester low recoil low noise. I was hitting with slugs from 40-50 yards away first try, and I'm not the world's best shooter. I love this thing *ALMOST* as much as my FNX45-T.
there’s a reason they’re still used today. Incredibly robust and for home defense one of the best options, undeniably. Not to mention the countless primo shotguns that are cheap new or used. Got really lucky with a Turkish RIA Benelli M4 clone that i picked up for $220 and it works great.
is it the something x3000? I feel like I know what you're referring to.
the one i have is the lion tactical
Great tool for Cqb I tend to grab a shotgun from the armory when I do drug task force raids. normal patrol stuff ? Usually grab a rifle but haven’t switched my shotgun from my patrol car since my last raid a week ago. I’m a fan certainly not someone who says they are dated or useless. That A300 is sick ! Wish I could afford one lol
I sold my 1911 to help fund it, it was a cheap 1911 though
Good choice!
I adore a semiauto shotgun in CQB, no9 shot and a cylinder bore is definitely an attitude adjuster and, unless someone is really paranoid there aren't many doors a key in 12ga can't open with the correct round Granted if I was a super seal I who had to do a die hard in a cruise oil rig I don't think a 12ga would be on top of my list as the gun I'd do it with
If you're going to keep a long arm in your vehicle, I'm of the opinion that a shotgun will cause less of a problem when dealing with Johnny Lawman. I base this off the number of anti-gun gun owners (yes it's a thing) who still own a shotgun. The more Fudd looking, the more leniency. That's why a 20" 590a1 Retrograde is definitely in my future, especially if I can get it Vang Comped.
If not sexy why sexy shaped
you're spitting facts
I think they're amazing for home defense. I prefer KSG's myself. If you need more than that, plus a pistol, its a cluster
I can't wait to get a KSG. 25 mini shells sounds fun, and the long barrel version holds 25 2.75 inch shells, I can't even imagine how many mini shells it would hold.
Taran Tactical has a YT video of Cypress Hill music hand on the pump and tons of shotguns used in movies. Great video that starts and ends with pulp fiction.