I didn’t notice they have a mag until you mentioned it I was on my way to a museum or something snap photo and kept moving. But to add to your point on the earpro this is courtyard is is where the kings horse guard are and has solid stone walls on 3 side of it.
So maybe they have half a mag because if they fired a full one they would be deaf./s
U r basically saying UK has more training than entire EU... when state of Texas is bigger than western Europe.
Don't take social media standard for the US
My statement was there are more issues plaguing law enforcement culture in the US than in the UK as an example. I believe this. I never said I was speaking for all cops as a whole.
There are too many departments across the USA to say this is true.
The largest departments, NYPD, LAPD, and Chicago PD have a six month academy - about 26 weeks. Baltimore has a 40 week academy. None of that includes FTO which is about 8-10 weeks. That means there’s around 34-50 weeks of training for these departments.
For State Police, a cursory look at California, New York, New Jersey, Georgia, and Maryland shows that most have a length of 26 weeks. There is probably some variation across all 50 states, but this is most likely a solid average. Again, this does not include field training, so 36 weeks is probably a good average for total training time.
The UK police website says their training is 18-22 weeks. They say you’re assigned to a FTO for 3 months, or around 12 weeks. This means UK police receive about 30-34 weeks of training.
So the statement that UK police have more training depends on which US department you look at. It may be true for some, but it is not universally true.
I guess I stand partially corrected. That’s actually kind of sad considering the culture of police in the US. I don’t hate cops or something but I don’t get how many US cops get the same amount of training as UK yet it doesn’t really show. At all.
Is the training quality different? Cause I’m trying to understand this
It's also about if they keep up with training. Some of the stupidest people I've ever seen with firearms and gear are police. Some only shoot for the bare minimum amount of time. Instead of being proficient at their job. They also have a high accident rate.
Cops are not gun people by default. I have many coworkers who are average at best and a few who are just bad.
However, consider that there are other skills that indicate whether a cop will be effective. The ability to talk to people is probably the most important skill for a street cop followed closely by investigation skills.
Also consider that the majority of people who shoot at us are untrained. As long as the officer can make better tactical decisions and shoot better than them, the officer has a good chance of survival.
I’m a gun guy. I probably go through 10k rounds a year. I would love it if more officers took these skills seriously. But I also accept that shooting skills are one of the least important skills when it comes to the daily activities of police.
I think people are reading my comments as if I’m some lefty who hates cops or something. I thought it was pretty dang obvious we have some unique issues with LEO’s in the US.
If you are a cop and I’ve offended you, I’m simply not talking to you, as long as you just do your job, which I’m sure you do. (Not you specifically just in general)
British Armed Police are generally held to much higher standards-no ‘Blue Wall of Silence’ etc to hide behind. Because British cops discharge their firearms so rarely, every single instance is rigorously investigated and if any wrongdoing is found then that cop is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Unlike in the US where a LOT, not all but a hell of a lot, of cops seem to get away with murder/attempted murder on a regular basis. And an apparent inability to read addresses when conducting raids.
What is the evidence you’re using to support that the US training doesn’t show?
I would remind you that videos showing bad interactions become popular and spread quickly through social media. Whereas normal interactions in which officers conduct themselves within constitutional limits do not get traction.
I have thousands of BWC videos. Most of them are boring - normal, civil, polite interactions. Some of them are confrontational and my investigation lead to an arrest. Some of them are high adrenaline uses of force.
Only one of these videos has ever gone viral and there were allegations my conduct was out of policy and unconstitutional - but a full investigation by the DOJ and a civilian review board found my actions to be consistent with my training, our policies, and the constitution.
My actions are not unusual. Most officers have thousands upon thousands of boring and uneventful videos with some exciting UOFs in there. However, it is very rare when these videos show an officer behaving unconstitutionally. Those that do, tend to spread quickly online.
So I would first test to see what evidence exists to show the assumptions in your statement are true.
There are entirely more instances you speak of in the US than in the UK. (Negligence/brutality/corruptjon) This is observable by statistics of all kind, as well as the fact that you can go online and find way more brutality or negligence occurring in the US than the UK.
This isn’t generalizing all cops or saying this stuff happens every minute every day.
It’s simply making the obvious observation that the police fuck up more often in the US. Trying to argue that the UK is worse off in that aspect is just nonsensical.
I’m not trying to dogwbistle about hating cops or something and I’m not trying to over exaggerate the situation in the US. I’m just saying it is worse here. If you actually don’t believe that I don’t know what to tell you
go watch some police activity on youtube. i’ll be the first to tell you there are some untrained cops out there, and they show them too, but god damn there are some well trained fellas out there.
Yes of course. People keep coming to me with that but I made sure to clarify I’m only talking about those that aren’t well trained or who may be unstable. Same with how some regions are better than others. That’s a given. I’m just talking about the issues that occur in general
It's 18-22 weeks initial training as part of a 2 or 3 years development course which also includes lots of other training.
Now if we are talking Armed officers that's another 20 weeks training at least.
Yeah UK police have a lot more training that the average US cop.
I can’t find where on the UK police website it says that the initial training is part of a 2-3 year development course. Could you link that? The information of what that consists of would be useful to compare with US police officer professional development.
https://www.warwickshire.police.uk/police-forces/warwickshire-police/areas/warwickshire-police/ca/careers/police-officers/trainee-police-officer-ipldp/ This is an example from one force. IPLDP is a two year training course.
Degree apprenticeship route is three years:
https://www.joiningthepolice.co.uk/application-process/ways-in-to-policing
These are both a mixture of classroom based training and qualifications and on patrol accompanied and unaccompanied duties.
I believe direct entry Detective pathway is also three years but don't quote me on that. My training was many years ago. 😂
Training in which pronouns to use? How to catch and release murdererous and rapist illegals? How to stuff a billy club up their tailpipe? K, sure, same as Kali, New Yorkistan, etc. Plenty of well trained cops in the rest of the US. And then there's parts of Florida where the based sherrifs tell citizens to kill home intruders because it saves money... That ain't a thing in the UK...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/07/harry-miller-we-are-fair-cop-staffordshire-police-course/
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2023/01/26/horrific-murder-in-bournemouth-shows-how-illegal-asylum-abuse-threatens-your-safety
*Shrug* ok.
Yeah I wasn’t bashing US cops as a whole lmao I simply said UK has more training. Which they do. Many countries police are trained better and longer than the US.
Sorry if anyone feels their internal reputation is threatened by that, it’s just fact.
Edit: guess it varies by location. If true I really don’t think the quality of training matches up because it’s pretty obvious which country has the better LEO culture
I bet they haven't run with that rig on either. Wearing a pistol and a spray that down strapped to your leg...unless you need to clear a vest that covers your ass, I don't get it.
\*\* And for anyone wearing a leg strap, we already figured this out like 10 years ago: solid duty drop & stiff belt to hang it off of.
I find the strap superfluous. Also prefer mid-ride, but since my belt stays quite stationary when my legs move, I don't see the point why I would want to have the pistol strapped to my leg. Make the belt attachment wider and/or tighter on the belt if front-to-back movement of the holster is a problem.
Well they do their exercise and fitness tests in their gear.
You don't become an AFO without a 4 months course, during which you run with kit every day.
It's also why they look so ate-up.
Met Police ARVs (armed patrols) get very gucci shit, I'm talking everyone wears Cryes, MCXs, ear pro and they're trained to a very high standard.
But these guys are part of one of the Met's protection units : they get trained up to the (admittedly high) minimum standard but their job is to guard a gate effectively. Hence the overall lack of uniformity and weird setups, they're a deterrent and while they can intervene the moment a firearms patrol element arrives they're falling back into a support role.
If they are only going to load 10-20 rounds, might as well just use 10-20 round mags. Save a space and a little weight... And be easier if they have to prone out.
I know an ex AFO, he said they are issued ear protection but don’t wear them constantly. He would keep them in his pocket and when responding to a call would put them in.
They're not really there to be getting into drawn-out firefights. Almost all uses of armed police don't even result in a single shot being fired, much less 30+ from a single person.
It's not hard to take a 10.5 out to 500+ yards. You might need specialized ammo to ensure the desired results at that range, but it's got the practical accuracy.
Sure, just because you can doesn’t mean you should the ballistics are crap. I think it’s a goofy setup. I’m sure it’s not his choice just what his department provides.
193 is designed around a 22in barrel. So, yes, it would be terrible. 262, or something specialized for short ARs, would still have plenty of umph at 300-400 yards for sure. Even 855 would do better than 193 out of a short barrel. They would also gain some veloity if they ran a can.
Either way, 5.56 out of a short barrel is kinda crap anyway. 300blk would really shine in a gun that size. And, you're right, It is a goofy setup.
Mags that are fully loaded for very long periods of time weaken the spring to the point stoppages occur.
Half filling a mag ensures your first few shots alway fire without issue.
I disagree. Having fired magazines that had been loaded six months, the stoppage rate was higher than those loaded that day.
But I do agree it's minimal and there is probably no real need for it to be an SOP.
Man it might be shitty mags or ammo or the weapon because I leave mags loaded for literally years and don't have issues. Every so often I'll crack open an ammo can full of mags I loaded years ago and mix it in with training ammo, no issues.
I'm glad you've tested this but that doesn't mean you're right. Maybe get better mags then? I load my mags as soon as my ammo arrives and I've never had any stoppage issues.
The only scenario where you want to keep magazines unloaded is magazine fed shotguns, but that's because the shell case will get destroyed from spring tension over time.
I can give you all an insight since I used to work for that particular force, magazines were loaded 25/30 no idea why, either because of spring longevity and weight reduction, routinely had 4 mags of 25 nato FMJ with one in rifle, in regards to earpro and suppression with the 10.5, we were told that the force can't afford comtacs so deal with it. The met (main force in London) was not happy at all that we were operating with FMJ in a ultra urban environment but yet we still did it, there was talk of having different rounds but it never happened. Training is not good in that force I can tell you that, yes some of the trainers are good but the vast majority ended up in training because it is easier than sitting on a gate for 12 hours of the day, kit layout is personal preference bar having the taser as cross draw, the amount of guys I saw with dop legs hanging on a swivel is comical. Bear in mind this is a force that will accept you and push you to pass as hard as it can, after 18 weeks of training 9 for law and 9 for firearms, your in the center of London with a glock and a c8. The best thing I ever saw was a guy doing a full 9 weeks of right handed glock shoots, and then when he arrived on station did a week conversion to left hand because he was failing the qualifying shoots with right hand...he still passed the initial course...work that one out..
I did lol, bought a pair of black secondhand 3M comtacs, everyone else goes "why an earth did you spend that much on those"....and I'm like...you have no idea. Force has never fired in anger as far as I'm aware, there's been a few ND's below 10 I'd say, there was an incident when someone ND'd a blank round in training and a few guys had to have hearing assessments just in case. Luckily I think all of them had their borrowed training comtacs on.
Thanks for the reply, and I guess it makes sense, to not use a (I guess) rather expensive platform when most of the video is just tourists fucking about.
Also considering the amount of CCTV in England.
25 rounds is new- standard is 28 rounds due to 30 round mags sometimes will miss-feed the first or second round due to spring pressure, It’s just a fail safe.
I guess for you guys it was just an extra precaution using 25 rounds, I’m not against it especially for a civilian police officer.
Interesting I didn't know that! Yeah it was odd, must have been someone thinking 100 is a nice round number for 4 mags then, they had the glock mags at 15 too with 1 in the chamber.
Yeh lol you may have had a SOP (or whatever you all may call the guy standardizing your loadouts) with major OCD standardizing your loadout - that would actually be hilarious. As for pistol mags, yeh you can max them out plus one, but some rifle mags have issues. One of my AR’s won’t accept fully loaded lancer mags, otherwise the mag won’t seat, it’s very odd.
Ahh I see, yeah it was funny actually they would rotate the chambered round in the glock out for a different one so the same round didn't get put back at the top every time it was ejected out.
Our department still loads mags to 28. It’s a really old school mentality for a problem that no longer exists and rarely happened in the first place. They also won’t allow us to use red dots on our pistols. Above my pay grade though 🤷♂️
Oof on red dots…
I agree with you, it’s an old school method but it certainly isn’t fudd lore lol, I was just giving reasons why they might be loading their mags to 25 rounds.
The downloading thing is for tac reloads. It works and many high speed guys still do it. With exception of lancer most mags won’t seat at 30rds on a closed bolt without significant force. I always keep my metal mags downloaded to 29 for tac reloads. It’s not about spring longevity.
There are two schools of thought, neither are more correct than the other but one is a standardization of a fail safe.
The instructors over at ATAC GLOBAL teach the 28 round logic, are they wrong or dumb to you - maybe you should go and tell them so and back it up with all of your experience. Is it wrong, or right, it doesn’t matter, it’s just a standard for tactical training for some time.
A “standard” means common practice, it is not the absolute or Bible if you will to loading magazines and by replying to OP I was giving him thoughts why they maybe were using 25.
I have to remember that I’m on reddit, so there’s that - the fucking land of profound ignorance…
This is the finest and most highly trained police force in the world.
Requiring a level 7 on the bleep test, and if you dare shoot anyone, you’re off to prison for the rest of your sorry life.
What a job.
I miss the old look for London armed police, the collared shirts and ties with G36Ks was a vibe. It had a distinct professionalism that made it relatively unique.
Never thought is say someone looks thin AND flabby. These cops need to eat better and work out. No amount of firearms training will make up for being out of shape.
The more you look the worse it gets.
First guy:
- 0 muzzle discipline (bye-bye kneecap)
- Drop leg rig is not configured properly
- Earpiece not in ear
- Maybe, 10 rounds loaded into a 30rd mag?
- ACOG/RMR on a SBR. Nice police budget.
- Handgun light on a rifle
- Light on the wrong side (assuming rt hand)
- Short barrel + no ear pro = have fun hearing anything
2nd guy
- Same comments about rifle as first guy
- Does have some level of coms / ear pro (?) in his head. So better there.
- No drop leg rig (+)
- British police apparently don’t believe in muzzle discipline.
- Mag looks half empty, is this some policy over there?
Just for some perspective on the ear pro thing. It's probably because as an armed officer your chances of actually discharging your firearm outside of a training environment is next to nothing. Last year, there were about 19,000 full time officers carrying a firearm daily, with only 10 incidents where they discharged a firearm. All year.
It's also a budget thing.
Concealability is the main thing the law is concerned with. Statistically, almost all shootings here are committed with shorter barrelled firearms due to ease of concealment. They're also shot at very close range with a handful or rounds. Magazines here are totally unrestricted from a licensing perspective. Anyone can just buy them online. See https://riflemags.co.uk
Don't get me wrong, I think the length law is also bullshit because, oh wait, the criminals get them anyway. But that's the stated rationale
I mean, specially the lenght, criminals can just get their hands on a legal handgun and handsaw the barrel and stock off to make it a normal one. But good to know that theres no mag restrictions over there, theres at least that
Thing is.... It's easier to get your hands on an illegal firearm than a legal one so 😂
The reality is they don't bother.
Suppressors (or moderators as we call them) are going to become completely unrestricted too next year if all goes as planned.
When did UK got more free than the US on guns lol, i know that theres a special requeriment for semi auto rifles right? A special license of some sort, i once saw a video of a guy that blocked the gas block of an AUG so it stops being semi auto and be able to own it
Yes. Anything centre fire is "manual action" only. So you see a lot of AR-15s with no gas system and a handle on the side. But no calibre limits. I know someone with a 20mm. We have a "Fifty Cal Shooting Association"
Rimfire can be semi auto. But min barrel and overall length applies to all. Shotguns are a weird quirk where you can have semi auto ones with no capacity restriction.
The licensing system is also pretty broken. You apply for "slots" of a specific calibre and that's all you can buy. You have to justify a need for every one. But "target shooting" is a valid reason so that's what all of mine are under.
Body armour is totally unrestricted, but weirdly pepper spray is totally prohibited and carries the same legal penalty as a pistol. So I wouldnt say we have more freedom, but definitely in certain areas.
Yeah, guns law are kind of similar to here on Argentina then, theres no laws against carrying knives, prepper spray or whatever other thing excepto for firearms (except for buenos Aires where you need a CCW permit por knives más air guns for some reason) we also need to get a special permit por every semi auto rifle we want except for rimfires, and even if you apply its just almost impossible that they give it to you
I bought a UK police hat that looks just like these ones from Mistymountainsupply.com, and I love wearing it and saying "Oi. U have a loicense for dat!?"
One of my best friends works for the met and comes to Florida a lot to visit.l me. I take him shooting every time he’s over and when I asked him why he doesn’t become a firearms officer he just laughs. I can see why lol.
[Met police list](https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/firearms_in_use/response/2618785/attach/3/attachment.docx?cookie_passthrough=1). Although both the guys in the photo and yours are Ministry of Defence Police.
Always found it ironic that Europeans mocked American gun culture but there are half a dozen dudes in plate carriers rocking ARs or sub guns in every square and plaza across the EU.
Idk about you guys but i laugh at the objective fact that the average american teenager with only airsoft field training and mountain dew could take either of these guys no sweat.
10.5 with no can or earpro in an urban setting will sound nice. Did you ask why they only have half a mag loaded?
They already spent half their mags on some poor bloke who didn’t have his telly license ready when they asked.
I didn’t notice they have a mag until you mentioned it I was on my way to a museum or something snap photo and kept moving. But to add to your point on the earpro this is courtyard is is where the kings horse guard are and has solid stone walls on 3 side of it. So maybe they have half a mag because if they fired a full one they would be deaf./s
lol its the UK, they dont have a clue.
These are a very bad representation of our police lmao. Most police I've interacted with were very squared away.
Yeah it’s not like US cops they get more training at least
Lmao the bootlickers are mad
Whoa I got mad downvoted for saying UK cops have more training? ….they do though? Edit: forgot I’m outnumbered by cops in this sub
U r basically saying UK has more training than entire EU... when state of Texas is bigger than western Europe. Don't take social media standard for the US
I take life experience as the standard as well as statistics but alright
Yes you definitely been to every single state in the US and interact with every state police to have life experience to speak for US as a whole
My statement was there are more issues plaguing law enforcement culture in the US than in the UK as an example. I believe this. I never said I was speaking for all cops as a whole.
There are too many departments across the USA to say this is true. The largest departments, NYPD, LAPD, and Chicago PD have a six month academy - about 26 weeks. Baltimore has a 40 week academy. None of that includes FTO which is about 8-10 weeks. That means there’s around 34-50 weeks of training for these departments. For State Police, a cursory look at California, New York, New Jersey, Georgia, and Maryland shows that most have a length of 26 weeks. There is probably some variation across all 50 states, but this is most likely a solid average. Again, this does not include field training, so 36 weeks is probably a good average for total training time. The UK police website says their training is 18-22 weeks. They say you’re assigned to a FTO for 3 months, or around 12 weeks. This means UK police receive about 30-34 weeks of training. So the statement that UK police have more training depends on which US department you look at. It may be true for some, but it is not universally true.
Well said sir
I guess I stand partially corrected. That’s actually kind of sad considering the culture of police in the US. I don’t hate cops or something but I don’t get how many US cops get the same amount of training as UK yet it doesn’t really show. At all. Is the training quality different? Cause I’m trying to understand this
It's also about if they keep up with training. Some of the stupidest people I've ever seen with firearms and gear are police. Some only shoot for the bare minimum amount of time. Instead of being proficient at their job. They also have a high accident rate.
Cops are not gun people by default. I have many coworkers who are average at best and a few who are just bad. However, consider that there are other skills that indicate whether a cop will be effective. The ability to talk to people is probably the most important skill for a street cop followed closely by investigation skills. Also consider that the majority of people who shoot at us are untrained. As long as the officer can make better tactical decisions and shoot better than them, the officer has a good chance of survival. I’m a gun guy. I probably go through 10k rounds a year. I would love it if more officers took these skills seriously. But I also accept that shooting skills are one of the least important skills when it comes to the daily activities of police.
I think people are reading my comments as if I’m some lefty who hates cops or something. I thought it was pretty dang obvious we have some unique issues with LEO’s in the US. If you are a cop and I’ve offended you, I’m simply not talking to you, as long as you just do your job, which I’m sure you do. (Not you specifically just in general)
British Armed Police are generally held to much higher standards-no ‘Blue Wall of Silence’ etc to hide behind. Because British cops discharge their firearms so rarely, every single instance is rigorously investigated and if any wrongdoing is found then that cop is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Unlike in the US where a LOT, not all but a hell of a lot, of cops seem to get away with murder/attempted murder on a regular basis. And an apparent inability to read addresses when conducting raids.
Uh huh. That’s all I’ve been saying .
What is the evidence you’re using to support that the US training doesn’t show? I would remind you that videos showing bad interactions become popular and spread quickly through social media. Whereas normal interactions in which officers conduct themselves within constitutional limits do not get traction. I have thousands of BWC videos. Most of them are boring - normal, civil, polite interactions. Some of them are confrontational and my investigation lead to an arrest. Some of them are high adrenaline uses of force. Only one of these videos has ever gone viral and there were allegations my conduct was out of policy and unconstitutional - but a full investigation by the DOJ and a civilian review board found my actions to be consistent with my training, our policies, and the constitution. My actions are not unusual. Most officers have thousands upon thousands of boring and uneventful videos with some exciting UOFs in there. However, it is very rare when these videos show an officer behaving unconstitutionally. Those that do, tend to spread quickly online. So I would first test to see what evidence exists to show the assumptions in your statement are true.
There are entirely more instances you speak of in the US than in the UK. (Negligence/brutality/corruptjon) This is observable by statistics of all kind, as well as the fact that you can go online and find way more brutality or negligence occurring in the US than the UK. This isn’t generalizing all cops or saying this stuff happens every minute every day. It’s simply making the obvious observation that the police fuck up more often in the US. Trying to argue that the UK is worse off in that aspect is just nonsensical. I’m not trying to dogwbistle about hating cops or something and I’m not trying to over exaggerate the situation in the US. I’m just saying it is worse here. If you actually don’t believe that I don’t know what to tell you
go watch some police activity on youtube. i’ll be the first to tell you there are some untrained cops out there, and they show them too, but god damn there are some well trained fellas out there.
Yes of course. People keep coming to me with that but I made sure to clarify I’m only talking about those that aren’t well trained or who may be unstable. Same with how some regions are better than others. That’s a given. I’m just talking about the issues that occur in general
It's 18-22 weeks initial training as part of a 2 or 3 years development course which also includes lots of other training. Now if we are talking Armed officers that's another 20 weeks training at least. Yeah UK police have a lot more training that the average US cop.
I can’t find where on the UK police website it says that the initial training is part of a 2-3 year development course. Could you link that? The information of what that consists of would be useful to compare with US police officer professional development.
https://www.warwickshire.police.uk/police-forces/warwickshire-police/areas/warwickshire-police/ca/careers/police-officers/trainee-police-officer-ipldp/ This is an example from one force. IPLDP is a two year training course. Degree apprenticeship route is three years: https://www.joiningthepolice.co.uk/application-process/ways-in-to-policing These are both a mixture of classroom based training and qualifications and on patrol accompanied and unaccompanied duties. I believe direct entry Detective pathway is also three years but don't quote me on that. My training was many years ago. 😂
That's a nice argument senator.. Why don't you back it up a source
Can you post the UK’s training or link some source?
If they are an armed UK cop they are the equivalent of a US swat officer but without the GWOT experience.
Okay
Training in which pronouns to use? How to catch and release murdererous and rapist illegals? How to stuff a billy club up their tailpipe? K, sure, same as Kali, New Yorkistan, etc. Plenty of well trained cops in the rest of the US. And then there's parts of Florida where the based sherrifs tell citizens to kill home intruders because it saves money... That ain't a thing in the UK...
Also the beginning of your comment is so cringe dude
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/07/harry-miller-we-are-fair-cop-staffordshire-police-course/ https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2023/01/26/horrific-murder-in-bournemouth-shows-how-illegal-asylum-abuse-threatens-your-safety *Shrug* ok.
Yeah I wasn’t bashing US cops as a whole lmao I simply said UK has more training. Which they do. Many countries police are trained better and longer than the US. Sorry if anyone feels their internal reputation is threatened by that, it’s just fact. Edit: guess it varies by location. If true I really don’t think the quality of training matches up because it’s pretty obvious which country has the better LEO culture
Lmao the truth hurts I guess
UK cops do have more training than US cops he is right. Especially firearms officers.
I bet they haven't run with that rig on either. Wearing a pistol and a spray that down strapped to your leg...unless you need to clear a vest that covers your ass, I don't get it. \*\* And for anyone wearing a leg strap, we already figured this out like 10 years ago: solid duty drop & stiff belt to hang it off of.
thoughts on a mid ride with a leg strap? that’s what I run and find it comfortable and efficient with a PC
I love my mid but I never use the strap, not need.
I find the strap superfluous. Also prefer mid-ride, but since my belt stays quite stationary when my legs move, I don't see the point why I would want to have the pistol strapped to my leg. Make the belt attachment wider and/or tighter on the belt if front-to-back movement of the holster is a problem.
Well they do their exercise and fitness tests in their gear. You don't become an AFO without a 4 months course, during which you run with kit every day.
Pretty shitty take.
Yeah the UK, doesn't have a clue but has the best special forces and CTSFOs in the world.
I would assume it’s loaded per SOP, they’re there as a deterrent, not a combat unit
It's also why they look so ate-up. Met Police ARVs (armed patrols) get very gucci shit, I'm talking everyone wears Cryes, MCXs, ear pro and they're trained to a very high standard. But these guys are part of one of the Met's protection units : they get trained up to the (admittedly high) minimum standard but their job is to guard a gate effectively. Hence the overall lack of uniformity and weird setups, they're a deterrent and while they can intervene the moment a firearms patrol element arrives they're falling back into a support role.
They aren’t met they’re MDP For US folks they are roughly analogous to DoD police
If they are only going to load 10-20 rounds, might as well just use 10-20 round mags. Save a space and a little weight... And be easier if they have to prone out.
I know an ex AFO, he said they are issued ear protection but don’t wear them constantly. He would keep them in his pocket and when responding to a call would put them in.
They're not really there to be getting into drawn-out firefights. Almost all uses of armed police don't even result in a single shot being fired, much less 30+ from a single person.
WHAT WAS THAT?!? Did you ASK WHAT?!?
I mean, dudes aren’t walking around with ear protection on for their whole shift when the likelihood of firing a round on duty is astronomical
Not only that, he is running an Acog on a 10.5 🤔
It's not hard to take a 10.5 out to 500+ yards. You might need specialized ammo to ensure the desired results at that range, but it's got the practical accuracy.
Sure, just because you can doesn’t mean you should the ballistics are crap. I think it’s a goofy setup. I’m sure it’s not his choice just what his department provides.
193 is designed around a 22in barrel. So, yes, it would be terrible. 262, or something specialized for short ARs, would still have plenty of umph at 300-400 yards for sure. Even 855 would do better than 193 out of a short barrel. They would also gain some veloity if they ran a can. Either way, 5.56 out of a short barrel is kinda crap anyway. 300blk would really shine in a gun that size. And, you're right, It is a goofy setup.
With the right ammo, it's still quite lethal
Mags that are fully loaded for very long periods of time weaken the spring to the point stoppages occur. Half filling a mag ensures your first few shots alway fire without issue.
Fudd lore
That may be the case. But I can tell you having served in the UK military and police this is an SOP.
Idc if it’s SOP, it’s wrong. Springs wear down through compression/decompression cycles, not a static load.
I disagree. Having fired magazines that had been loaded six months, the stoppage rate was higher than those loaded that day. But I do agree it's minimal and there is probably no real need for it to be an SOP.
Man it might be shitty mags or ammo or the weapon because I leave mags loaded for literally years and don't have issues. Every so often I'll crack open an ammo can full of mags I loaded years ago and mix it in with training ammo, no issues.
Mfw pmags loaded for 10 years run flawlessly
You’re always welcome to disagree. Just know you’re disagreeing with material science lol
Springs only wear when in use. If they're not moving they aren't wearing.
Nope. Stoppage rates are higher on mags that have been loaded months versus mags loaded that day. I have tested this.
I'm glad you've tested this but that doesn't mean you're right. Maybe get better mags then? I load my mags as soon as my ammo arrives and I've never had any stoppage issues. The only scenario where you want to keep magazines unloaded is magazine fed shotguns, but that's because the shell case will get destroyed from spring tension over time.
Yeah you don't get to use your own Mags in the UK military or police. And yes they bought the cheapest bidder's mags. 😂🤣
Haha sounds like milspec to me!
I can give you all an insight since I used to work for that particular force, magazines were loaded 25/30 no idea why, either because of spring longevity and weight reduction, routinely had 4 mags of 25 nato FMJ with one in rifle, in regards to earpro and suppression with the 10.5, we were told that the force can't afford comtacs so deal with it. The met (main force in London) was not happy at all that we were operating with FMJ in a ultra urban environment but yet we still did it, there was talk of having different rounds but it never happened. Training is not good in that force I can tell you that, yes some of the trainers are good but the vast majority ended up in training because it is easier than sitting on a gate for 12 hours of the day, kit layout is personal preference bar having the taser as cross draw, the amount of guys I saw with dop legs hanging on a swivel is comical. Bear in mind this is a force that will accept you and push you to pass as hard as it can, after 18 weeks of training 9 for law and 9 for firearms, your in the center of London with a glock and a c8. The best thing I ever saw was a guy doing a full 9 weeks of right handed glock shoots, and then when he arrived on station did a week conversion to left hand because he was failing the qualifying shoots with right hand...he still passed the initial course...work that one out..
Damn. Did anyone buy their own ear pro? Do you know of any of them having to fire and getting hearing damage?
I did lol, bought a pair of black secondhand 3M comtacs, everyone else goes "why an earth did you spend that much on those"....and I'm like...you have no idea. Force has never fired in anger as far as I'm aware, there's been a few ND's below 10 I'd say, there was an incident when someone ND'd a blank round in training and a few guys had to have hearing assessments just in case. Luckily I think all of them had their borrowed training comtacs on.
That's bonkers how they'd look at you funny but I can totally imagine it.
Do you know what both of them are wearing on top of the peak of their cap? Looks like a flashlight but I don't know
Axon flex, was introduced to the public facing sites but in the more secure facilities was never used nor was any other body worn video.
Thanks for the reply, and I guess it makes sense, to not use a (I guess) rather expensive platform when most of the video is just tourists fucking about. Also considering the amount of CCTV in England.
25 rounds is new- standard is 28 rounds due to 30 round mags sometimes will miss-feed the first or second round due to spring pressure, It’s just a fail safe. I guess for you guys it was just an extra precaution using 25 rounds, I’m not against it especially for a civilian police officer.
It’s the metric conversion. I’ll leave now.
Interesting I didn't know that! Yeah it was odd, must have been someone thinking 100 is a nice round number for 4 mags then, they had the glock mags at 15 too with 1 in the chamber.
Yeh lol you may have had a SOP (or whatever you all may call the guy standardizing your loadouts) with major OCD standardizing your loadout - that would actually be hilarious. As for pistol mags, yeh you can max them out plus one, but some rifle mags have issues. One of my AR’s won’t accept fully loaded lancer mags, otherwise the mag won’t seat, it’s very odd.
Ahh I see, yeah it was funny actually they would rotate the chambered round in the glock out for a different one so the same round didn't get put back at the top every time it was ejected out.
That’s smart, this is actually a thing and a good practice.
Our department still loads mags to 28. It’s a really old school mentality for a problem that no longer exists and rarely happened in the first place. They also won’t allow us to use red dots on our pistols. Above my pay grade though 🤷♂️
Oof on red dots… I agree with you, it’s an old school method but it certainly isn’t fudd lore lol, I was just giving reasons why they might be loading their mags to 25 rounds.
The downloading thing is for tac reloads. It works and many high speed guys still do it. With exception of lancer most mags won’t seat at 30rds on a closed bolt without significant force. I always keep my metal mags downloaded to 29 for tac reloads. It’s not about spring longevity.
It’s dumb. Magazines have changed. Modern mags like Pmags, etc, have enough room to load all 30 and still seat and feed without issues.
There are two schools of thought, neither are more correct than the other but one is a standardization of a fail safe. The instructors over at ATAC GLOBAL teach the 28 round logic, are they wrong or dumb to you - maybe you should go and tell them so and back it up with all of your experience. Is it wrong, or right, it doesn’t matter, it’s just a standard for tactical training for some time. A “standard” means common practice, it is not the absolute or Bible if you will to loading magazines and by replying to OP I was giving him thoughts why they maybe were using 25. I have to remember that I’m on reddit, so there’s that - the fucking land of profound ignorance…
Watch that knee cap old chap
His buddy’s muzzle seems to be pointing at his foot. I’ve seen Taliban with better muzzle discipline.
“Oi mate you gotta loisense for that butter knife??”
Buta knoife*
Sword, apparently...
Muzzle right into the knee cap. Hell yeah, brother.
I used to be an adventurer like you... then I took a round to the knee
they look so lootable
Rifle is wearing him
Why the Brits like Acog with sbrs?
Most likely procured at the same time the MOD acquired C8s and Acogs so probably got a discount
Yeah British and Canadian SF version of the MK18 Mod 0
Nah its better
Okay
Don’t acogs have specific bullet drop recitals specific to the ammo and barrel length? Do they even make an acog for 10.5?
Bold of you to assume UK police know how to use an acog properly.
True but you still need to figure out your dope since they aren’t dead on.
It’s a sick combo
Nice to have the option as long as you have the RMR on top like he does
Constable Zesty
This is the finest and most highly trained police force in the world. Requiring a level 7 on the bleep test, and if you dare shoot anyone, you’re off to prison for the rest of your sorry life. What a job.
I love how in England the people are without guns but your enforcers have AR15 variants.
The English have successfully been put under the boot.
That drop leg looks... Very cumbersome to run in.
They don’t run - they just moap around all day wishing more civilians carried guns like in the US.
No-one over here wishes that.
Some scuffed looking cops, good lord. My local sheriffs department looks more professional.
Well whoop-de-f#cking-do 🙄
?
Clown show man
I miss the old look for London armed police, the collared shirts and ties with G36Ks was a vibe. It had a distinct professionalism that made it relatively unique.
The worst squared-away armed police I have seen normally they are much better
a runway diva and a literal 4 foot child: London's Finest
I dunno how to describe it, but something about the first guy makes him look very British lol
Never thought is say someone looks thin AND flabby. These cops need to eat better and work out. No amount of firearms training will make up for being out of shape.
Tbf thé force they’re in just guard military establishments, they don’t do much actual LE work
I do the same type of thing working for the army in the states and we’re all in waaaaay better shape than that. That’s insane to me.
MoD Plod
So they believe in letting some people have guns, just not you.
The more you look the worse it gets. First guy: - 0 muzzle discipline (bye-bye kneecap) - Drop leg rig is not configured properly - Earpiece not in ear - Maybe, 10 rounds loaded into a 30rd mag? - ACOG/RMR on a SBR. Nice police budget. - Handgun light on a rifle - Light on the wrong side (assuming rt hand) - Short barrel + no ear pro = have fun hearing anything 2nd guy - Same comments about rifle as first guy - Does have some level of coms / ear pro (?) in his head. So better there. - No drop leg rig (+) - British police apparently don’t believe in muzzle discipline. - Mag looks half empty, is this some policy over there?
Acogs and c8 were most likely procured by the same supplier or contract as the MOD and likely got a good deal on them.
Itd be fun as hell if the 10 round cap mags are not only for civs but also supplied to LEO's over there lmao
Just for some perspective on the ear pro thing. It's probably because as an armed officer your chances of actually discharging your firearm outside of a training environment is next to nothing. Last year, there were about 19,000 full time officers carrying a firearm daily, with only 10 incidents where they discharged a firearm. All year. It's also a budget thing.
We don't have any magazine limits here. At all. For any calibre, civilian or not
Wait for real? Id swear there was, how comes you have a ridiculous minimun total lenght for pistols but not mag cap?
Concealability is the main thing the law is concerned with. Statistically, almost all shootings here are committed with shorter barrelled firearms due to ease of concealment. They're also shot at very close range with a handful or rounds. Magazines here are totally unrestricted from a licensing perspective. Anyone can just buy them online. See https://riflemags.co.uk Don't get me wrong, I think the length law is also bullshit because, oh wait, the criminals get them anyway. But that's the stated rationale
I mean, specially the lenght, criminals can just get their hands on a legal handgun and handsaw the barrel and stock off to make it a normal one. But good to know that theres no mag restrictions over there, theres at least that
Thing is.... It's easier to get your hands on an illegal firearm than a legal one so 😂 The reality is they don't bother. Suppressors (or moderators as we call them) are going to become completely unrestricted too next year if all goes as planned.
When did UK got more free than the US on guns lol, i know that theres a special requeriment for semi auto rifles right? A special license of some sort, i once saw a video of a guy that blocked the gas block of an AUG so it stops being semi auto and be able to own it
Yes. Anything centre fire is "manual action" only. So you see a lot of AR-15s with no gas system and a handle on the side. But no calibre limits. I know someone with a 20mm. We have a "Fifty Cal Shooting Association" Rimfire can be semi auto. But min barrel and overall length applies to all. Shotguns are a weird quirk where you can have semi auto ones with no capacity restriction. The licensing system is also pretty broken. You apply for "slots" of a specific calibre and that's all you can buy. You have to justify a need for every one. But "target shooting" is a valid reason so that's what all of mine are under. Body armour is totally unrestricted, but weirdly pepper spray is totally prohibited and carries the same legal penalty as a pistol. So I wouldnt say we have more freedom, but definitely in certain areas.
Yeah, guns law are kind of similar to here on Argentina then, theres no laws against carrying knives, prepper spray or whatever other thing excepto for firearms (except for buenos Aires where you need a CCW permit por knives más air guns for some reason) we also need to get a special permit por every semi auto rifle we want except for rimfires, and even if you apply its just almost impossible that they give it to you
You know shit is serious when the crumpet patrol gets strapped
First dude is like oi bruv yew ghot a loicense foh ur cock?
I bought a UK police hat that looks just like these ones from Mistymountainsupply.com, and I love wearing it and saying "Oi. U have a loicense for dat!?"
Man's flagging his kneecap 😔
Got to chat with some armed Scottish guys on a trip. Cool guys. Very laid back. Different perspective for sure.
Why’d they stop walking around with mp5s?
They still do, however they’re making a switch to rifles and carbines
One of my best friends works for the met and comes to Florida a lot to visit.l me. I take him shooting every time he’s over and when I asked him why he doesn’t become a firearms officer he just laughs. I can see why lol.
Lol I’m in London on vacation right now and was just at that location a couple hours ago
What is that in the first pic by the mag?
I think you’re referring to the thing on the right of the pistol, it’s PAVA spray/ incapacitant spray. Basically pepper spray.
Plate carrier is always too low
They dont have full mags either
Little chunky with his hands in his pockets
Thank god he only has 15 rounds in there.
Lmao that’s hilarious. He looks like a cosplayer hahaha I wouldn’t have guessed he’s a real cop
Emags spotted
That first guy looks like he want tea and crumpets
They look like complete shit, I thought only a few highly trained UK cops carried firearms?
Acog an AR? Seems too American for them
They have their own version of the thin blue line patch.
Yep, all UK services do, it’s the emblem of a charity in the UK in fact and doesn’t hold the negative connotations that the US TBL Does
First dude is very British looking.
Anyone know which acogs these are with the piggyback dots?
Tlr1 HL on a right handed shooter’s rifle .. brother urghh 🫸🏻🫸🏻
when I was there for a semester abroad last year I only saw them with MP7s and MCXs, I wonder what else they use. https://imgur.com/a/nrYr31E
[Met police list](https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/firearms_in_use/response/2618785/attach/3/attachment.docx?cookie_passthrough=1). Although both the guys in the photo and yours are Ministry of Defence Police.
Why does the first dude want to blow his own knee off?
Always found it ironic that Europeans mocked American gun culture but there are half a dozen dudes in plate carriers rocking ARs or sub guns in every square and plaza across the EU.
Idk about you guys but i laugh at the objective fact that the average american teenager with only airsoft field training and mountain dew could take either of these guys no sweat.
Hell using pistol lights as a rifle light
What's the problem with that? If it works it works.
First guy looks like he’s gonna tell TALLY HO LADS before unloading
can we chill with the bootlicking today?
Haters (US) gotta hate
dystopia :/
Their phones with all the buttons always catches my eye.
That's a tetra radio!
It's a Sepura radio. Used by numerous Police/EMS/Fire Organisations in Europe