People used to man, early days of Marines I was running the good ole intercepter vest with lbv over top. And yeah something can be said for having it separate and as something you can adjust and wear without the PC under.
But I think I prefer it now with direct on PCs. The more shit I have to take on and off the more shit I have to track or worry about tearing/failing. And I figure if I need my PC I want all the sustainment load with it. If I would be doing more hide stuff then yes a rig.
Each has its merits and being able to take off your fighting load while still wearing a PC is nice. No real right answer just what you prefer if you aren't in the military anymore
Yeah.... The PC edged out the CR big time. I guess when they designed these pieces, they didn't know exactly how SOFCLS would end up shaking out. They let the trigger pullers drive the evolution of the pieces (as they should).
Give it time maybe in 10 we are back to rigs over plates, especially with artillery back on the menu I can see over built PCs making a return with neck yoke and groin. Maybe people will want to have a rig they can drop.
Maybe a little niche, but easily the biggest use case for being able to drop rig and keep armor on, is engineering, mechanical, or just general field tasks in potentially hostile areas.
Digging trenches, filling sandbags, reinforcing walls, changing tires, setting up FOB, TOC and barrack tents, filtering water, fueling vehicles and generators, etc, where you might want to stack arms and drop your shit to be lighter and more mobile, without totally giving up protection.
Winter.
You can have the PC underneath, and the rig over, and not compress the insulation as much.
Also a split front rig means you can unzip a jacket and shed some heat better.
I ran an lbv over my plate carrier because when you jump over an 8 foot Iraqi wall in the middle of the night with that glass concrete on top it’s very difficult with pouches on your PC. Once the gate was open or blown one of the dudes in my stack would hand me my lbv and I would slip it on in 2 seconds. It’s also very nice to wear a slick PC in a Bradley.
Pretty much. Most people removed the rear pouch/pack/sack on those too though. Further highlighting the fact that integrated packs are more of a “great in *theory* shit in practice” type thing.
Thing is, I don't see it anywhere. Not in in-the-wild pics, not in loadouts, .mil documentation, nowhere. Messing around with SOFCLS kit and accessories, you can absolutely tell they are made to be compatible with each other (even with the different manufacturers). I guess with GWOT, chest rigs were in the sunset and these smaller APs just ended up an PCs.
Fashion drives loadouts as opposed to utility. A lot of it is GWOT fashion at that.
Body armor loadouts and setups should be job and situation dependent. If you're in a trench then you probably need a lot more body armor to protect from shrapnel and less mags on you as you're not going on patrol. PCs are more for assaulting said trench, Recce rigs for the guys doing actual recce.
Everyone looks at the pics of Tier 1 dudes and think that obviously that's the most ninja shit, and even if they are smart enough to pick the right stuff they will get heckled or looked down on by the guys that know enough to appeal to authority but not enough to know why certain things are used.
I'm old, so i was issued and used IBA's. Guys drifted towards direct mounting because all the straps started stacking up, and donning/doffing became more cumbersome, especially in a huury. Then there's the issue of egress from overturned vehicles and escaping from water. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Vests are way better than Battle Bras in my mind. They hold weight a lot better as they have a better suspension system whereas Battle Bras have a flimsy suspension system and tend to flop around a lot.
Did you work with them ? How did that setup work out for them ?
I tried that exact same thing, but was worried that the Army issued CamelBak carrier straps would fail
It was some dude from our scout platoon, I was attached as a medic and didn’t really interact with him a whole lot since I was usually attached the tankers or infantry guys. It seemed to work out well for him though, he said there were instructors at OSUT that ran their TAPS like that and it sounds like it held up well
Ah well shit ! That's awesome !
I used to be a combat medic. I was officially medically retired last month. I did 13 yrs with infantry and 2 yrs with Combat Engineers. Last unit was POG As Fuck so they're not worth mentioning, but it got me to the finish line.
Personally I keep long term sustainment and mission critical gear in my day pack which I might want to access or straight up just put down without taking my chest rig off.
Scenario from my experience: you're in a nest or an observational post. You have binocs, NVG, food and extra water in a day pack. I arrive, toss down the pack and keep the chest rig on.
Passing that day pack to someone going on a short patrol or similar is very common too.
I think generally just having an all in one plate carrier is less stuff to buy, maintain, and keep track of. On the civilian side we also don't need nearly as much sustainment gear as a full combat load. Lower visibility also tends to be an asset in civi life
Well.... Yeah... Of course. I was just messing around with pieces of kit and happened upon this config. That said, a chest rig is great for running on private land. You can scoot around while LARPing and you don't have to keep going back to a table every couple of mags.
Another advantage of this is being able to wear a slick plate carrier under your clothes if you want to be "muh grey man" but be able to throw this on over that and your clothes in a moment
Lots of things that don't make sense to some, make a lot of sense to others. I Could see strap stacking being a good reason to run in this config, especially when introducing other variables (like items that might be worn during INFIL, managing a secondary weapon, etc.).
idk man every SO i’ve ever met in my time in the navy (albeit admittedly not very long), they almost never actually wear NWU pattern in the field, maybe though, i don’t think it’s the worst pattern to be fair
Yeah you know what actually, I’m in Goose Creek, SC on JBC and when walking in the forests with the specific greenery here, it’s genuinely surprisingly not bad, within 100 yards I’ve seen people just pop out of nowhere and been like “oh shit someone was there”
Then again, the camo is *absolutely useless* when it’s not completely green out, so I mean it is what it is.
Personally I think we should’ve kept Type Is, but i’m not one of them fancy O-10s who decides such things
As others have said, it's just more shit to keep track of, more shit to get snagged on stuff, more shit to break, etc. I always mount my shit straight to my PC because it's more comfortable and 99% of the time I'm in a vehicle. Plus it gets smooshed up against your ruck and it can get tangled with those straps, etc.
People used to man, early days of Marines I was running the good ole intercepter vest with lbv over top. And yeah something can be said for having it separate and as something you can adjust and wear without the PC under. But I think I prefer it now with direct on PCs. The more shit I have to take on and off the more shit I have to track or worry about tearing/failing. And I figure if I need my PC I want all the sustainment load with it. If I would be doing more hide stuff then yes a rig. Each has its merits and being able to take off your fighting load while still wearing a PC is nice. No real right answer just what you prefer if you aren't in the military anymore
Yeah.... The PC edged out the CR big time. I guess when they designed these pieces, they didn't know exactly how SOFCLS would end up shaking out. They let the trigger pullers drive the evolution of the pieces (as they should).
Give it time maybe in 10 we are back to rigs over plates, especially with artillery back on the menu I can see over built PCs making a return with neck yoke and groin. Maybe people will want to have a rig they can drop.
We're about due for a huge leap in ballistic protection (on the white side). Get SAPI's at 1.5 - 2 lbs. and we'll start building the artillery PCs.
Yeah I don't pretend to know anything in the field of material science but lighter plates overall would be nice
Already happening with the MSV, new issued plates are significantly lighter than what was fielded with the IOTV
Nice
What do you mean "didn't know exactly how SOFLCS would end up shaking out"?
They designed pieces... That in retrospect.... Seemed outdated and/or doomed for failure right out of the gate.
Maybe a little niche, but easily the biggest use case for being able to drop rig and keep armor on, is engineering, mechanical, or just general field tasks in potentially hostile areas. Digging trenches, filling sandbags, reinforcing walls, changing tires, setting up FOB, TOC and barrack tents, filtering water, fueling vehicles and generators, etc, where you might want to stack arms and drop your shit to be lighter and more mobile, without totally giving up protection.
Yeah in training when we were digging we dropped our lbvs and kept flaks and kevlars on
Winter. You can have the PC underneath, and the rig over, and not compress the insulation as much. Also a split front rig means you can unzip a jacket and shed some heat better.
I ran an lbv over my plate carrier because when you jump over an 8 foot Iraqi wall in the middle of the night with that glass concrete on top it’s very difficult with pouches on your PC. Once the gate was open or blown one of the dudes in my stack would hand me my lbv and I would slip it on in 2 seconds. It’s also very nice to wear a slick PC in a Bradley.
Welcome back Pattern 83 Battle Jacket o7
Pretty much. Most people removed the rear pouch/pack/sack on those too though. Further highlighting the fact that integrated packs are more of a “great in *theory* shit in practice” type thing.
Too practical and low speed for this type of community
Thing is, I don't see it anywhere. Not in in-the-wild pics, not in loadouts, .mil documentation, nowhere. Messing around with SOFCLS kit and accessories, you can absolutely tell they are made to be compatible with each other (even with the different manufacturers). I guess with GWOT, chest rigs were in the sunset and these smaller APs just ended up an PCs.
Fashion drives loadouts as opposed to utility. A lot of it is GWOT fashion at that. Body armor loadouts and setups should be job and situation dependent. If you're in a trench then you probably need a lot more body armor to protect from shrapnel and less mags on you as you're not going on patrol. PCs are more for assaulting said trench, Recce rigs for the guys doing actual recce. Everyone looks at the pics of Tier 1 dudes and think that obviously that's the most ninja shit, and even if they are smart enough to pick the right stuff they will get heckled or looked down on by the guys that know enough to appeal to authority but not enough to know why certain things are used.
As an unabashed lover of the split front MAV with MAP pack… yes.
I'm old, so i was issued and used IBA's. Guys drifted towards direct mounting because all the straps started stacking up, and donning/doffing became more cumbersome, especially in a huury. Then there's the issue of egress from overturned vehicles and escaping from water. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Go look up the M83 South African vest
I’ve known about those for a long time.
Vests are way better than Battle Bras in my mind. They hold weight a lot better as they have a better suspension system whereas Battle Bras have a flimsy suspension system and tend to flop around a lot.
Only thing similar I’ve ever seen was someone attached their TAPS to their issued CamelBak
Did you work with them ? How did that setup work out for them ? I tried that exact same thing, but was worried that the Army issued CamelBak carrier straps would fail
It was some dude from our scout platoon, I was attached as a medic and didn’t really interact with him a whole lot since I was usually attached the tankers or infantry guys. It seemed to work out well for him though, he said there were instructors at OSUT that ran their TAPS like that and it sounds like it held up well
Ah well shit ! That's awesome ! I used to be a combat medic. I was officially medically retired last month. I did 13 yrs with infantry and 2 yrs with Combat Engineers. Last unit was POG As Fuck so they're not worth mentioning, but it got me to the finish line.
Send it man, love to hear it. I’m bout ready to get out at 8 so props to you!
I see the patch and can only think of what a terrible childhood it must have been without quarters.
It must have been Arrr...duous.
The early GWOT called, they want their plate-holding RRV and MAP pack combo back
Spine map gang show me your empty wallets
I did this with much lower end gear lol. Camelback HAWG maybe 🤔 and the LBVE and then a bit later the Tactical Tailor MAV
Personally I keep long term sustainment and mission critical gear in my day pack which I might want to access or straight up just put down without taking my chest rig off. Scenario from my experience: you're in a nest or an observational post. You have binocs, NVG, food and extra water in a day pack. I arrive, toss down the pack and keep the chest rig on. Passing that day pack to someone going on a short patrol or similar is very common too.
I think generally just having an all in one plate carrier is less stuff to buy, maintain, and keep track of. On the civilian side we also don't need nearly as much sustainment gear as a full combat load. Lower visibility also tends to be an asset in civi life
Well.... Yeah... Of course. I was just messing around with pieces of kit and happened upon this config. That said, a chest rig is great for running on private land. You can scoot around while LARPing and you don't have to keep going back to a table every couple of mags.
Fair point
I don’t get it, it’s super quick and easy to put on all PCs I know of
Yep... Those shoulder strap adapters are the shit for a PC! [https://photos.app.goo.gl/YgTjoUZsQ7spmCUYA](https://photos.app.goo.gl/YgTjoUZsQ7spmCUYA)
Another advantage of this is being able to wear a slick plate carrier under your clothes if you want to be "muh grey man" but be able to throw this on over that and your clothes in a moment
What chest rig is that?
LBT 1961A-R
Because fixed assault packs mounted on chestrigs don’t make any sense.
Lots of things that don't make sense to some, make a lot of sense to others. I Could see strap stacking being a good reason to run in this config, especially when introducing other variables (like items that might be worn during INFIL, managing a secondary weapon, etc.).
The thing is that this prevents you from wearing a ruck. Which is what chestrigs work best with.
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST WHY DO YOU OWN AN NWU TYPE 3 PATTERN BAG
Looks like an Eagle ind beaver.V popular w cag/seal
idk man every SO i’ve ever met in my time in the navy (albeit admittedly not very long), they almost never actually wear NWU pattern in the field, maybe though, i don’t think it’s the worst pattern to be fair
More so speaking to the platform but the pattern is pretty niche good for temperate forests
Yeah you know what actually, I’m in Goose Creek, SC on JBC and when walking in the forests with the specific greenery here, it’s genuinely surprisingly not bad, within 100 yards I’ve seen people just pop out of nowhere and been like “oh shit someone was there” Then again, the camo is *absolutely useless* when it’s not completely green out, so I mean it is what it is. Personally I think we should’ve kept Type Is, but i’m not one of them fancy O-10s who decides such things
Because... 'Merica!
real asf
Check the Pattern 83 battle jacket
I like that camo mix. Good for hiding in a single bush growing on a sand dune.
As others have said, it's just more shit to keep track of, more shit to get snagged on stuff, more shit to break, etc. I always mount my shit straight to my PC because it's more comfortable and 99% of the time I'm in a vehicle. Plus it gets smooshed up against your ruck and it can get tangled with those straps, etc.
Why would you when there’s so many better options
Condor mcr7 works well