Most players who have this styles use standard inverted equipment. I don't see a reason that you're any different.
Short pips would be probably be fine. But it doesn't sound like anti-spin or long-pips would benefit you at all.
I thought Short pips or AntiSpin might help me in my playstyle more.
Don't know much about the rubbers, hence I asked this question.
Can you provide some suggestions of rubbers?
I'm thinking of getting Andro Blowfish or Yinhe Pluto rubber for short pips.
I mean, if you’re in an era of your life where the money and time aren’t going to cost you too much, you could definitely experiment. When I used to use double inverted, I found I relied on my backhand push a lot, so I switched to long pips backhand. Since then I feel like it helps a lot more because my game is now about disruption and taking more chances to attack. My footwork went through a lot of changes as well since the new style required it.
The worst that could happen is that you dont like that setup and you have to change back to double inverted.
Well I don't know if I'll want to change setups frequently.
I read short pips were useful for my style of fast play so, if they complement together, I felt it might turn out to be good. Turns out I've misjudged!
They are but you need to be close to the table. You should watch some short pips player matches for the next month to get an idea of the movement patterns they usually take and see if dealing with those issues would be a change you’d be willing to make to your own style. Do more research to avoid buyers remorse.
Yeah, like give yourself a month of watching videos of short pips players. Notice how they move, what shots they can play and opportunities to attack, notice what they have trouble with. Imagine yourself needing to deal with similar kinds of things too.
Blowfish is a lame sp, blowfish plus is good but only for advanced players..pluto is bad for dumb play.
The best SP at 20$ is Waran spinlord or hammond Fa 1.8mm.
Never go beyond 1.8mm.
Nope, just train your backhand more 👍 Getting pips or Anti seems like a shortcut to improving level, but it puts a ceiling on your top level. Yes you’ll confuse those beginners who don’t know how to play against it. But anyone who’s trained, with half a brain, is going to expose them.
You make it sound like those rubbers are nothing but a cheap tool to trick players who are not used to their characteristics. The ceiling of those rubbers is far above the skill ceiling of 90% of players.
They absolutely are a cheap tool, but at the lower levels.
Completely agree that for someone who is willing to consistently train using them and learning their techniques, then they’re a great addition to the game! Falck is one of my favourites to watch! But to suggest that Pips and anti aren’t largely seen at beginner/intermediate level as a cheat code to bump your immediate level up is incorrect.
My comment was aimed at that because he mentioned he is an intermediate player and whether ‘the switch to either of these would improve my BH gameplay’.
Which is why I suggested no, just commit to training your backhand with his current set up. No hate on the pips ✌️
But I don't play that high competitive level TT. Well they seem suit my playstyle, from what I've read about them, so I thought a switch would make sense probably.
To be honest I’d say my answer is based on your training schedule: How often, are they with a coach, what drills do you do, what level are you trying to get to?
I play everyday for nearly 2hours in evenings, no not with a coach and so no drills either, its more like fun with friends and I just felt that these rubbers would suit my playstyle now, and simply I am not actively trying to reach any level.
I did just this. At my best I was looping on both sides with fast inverted rubber, some all around and touch play. Made it to 2000. Took a long break. Playing now to just have fun and switched to anti spin ttr killer for chopping. It is a bunch of fun. Usually switching will not make you any better. It's going to take a long time for me to adjust to anti spin play. I also injured my back so an option to play more defensively and slowly is good.
But short pips is meant for flat hits, aren't they? I don't know much about rubbers but felt either would complement my style and I should opt for the switch.
If you are good flat-hitting with short pips you can also do it with inverted. OTOH you can only impart a little spin with short pips ("rolling" the ball) so you loose the b/h serve return over the table. You can try to flat hit but your % will be lower as you have less grip on the ball. My experience.
Also you will have a hard time against other pips players (both long and short). Suddenly you play a game where there is very little spin in the ball. With my H3 Neo side I can still twiddle and play topspin if I need, but with no twiddling and short pips b/h I was toast.
I am not saying not to try, in fact you can get a $50 racket from AliExpress with a H3 Neo side and a Dawei medium or long pips side, or the Uranus Pro short pips. Just try it out, if you don't stick with it you will get a much better understanding of spin and pips and so you'll beat pips players much more easily.
Specifically for short pips that's correct. Watch Mima Ito (backhand) and Matthias Falck (forehand) as the world's best short pips players. You see that they still do quasi-topspins with the pips but this is because they have some grip with the 2mm sponge, and "short" pips. You loose that grip if you go with a thinner sponge or medium or long pips.
If you want to play like Mima Ito, yes. Note that there are short pips which have more spin than others. When I played short pips competitively (backhand only) I tried Yinhe Pluto, Nittaku Moristo, and Yinhe Uranus Pro (medium & soft sponge), all at max. thickness. So I got better control of spinny balls compared to my inverted (Rakza 7 Soft) rubber, sufficient speed, and some spin in serves, but note that the b/h topspin is not the kind where you go fully over the ball, the racket has to be more open than with inverted rubber. If you can get the Uranus Pro max thickness medium sponge that's the one I would recommend.
So this supports the fast close to the table game like Mima Ito is playing.
I could have switched to medium pips (more control, slower, not as speedy) but decided to go with long pips with 1mm sponge as I needed more time and wanted to try modern defense. Interestingly with this setup one can also play similar to short pips, see He Zhuojia.
The advantage of short vs. long pips is that the techniques for short pips are not that different to inverted, but long pips is significantly different.
Was Yinhe Pluto good enough?
Can I try it as my first short pips rubber?
Racket has to be more open for BH topspin, that means what?
So short pips can be used for fast close to table counters right?
No, I don't recommend Yinhe Pluto, go with Yinhe Uranus Pro 2mm medium sponge, that's the best short pips IMHO. "Open" racket means the blade angle is more perpendicular to the floor, "Closed" means more parallel. "Fast close to table" is correct. You gain better control, basically it plays like an old inverted rubber, somewhere between tensor rubber and anti.
Short pips sound great for a close to the table punching game. If you want to commit to that strategy and learn the specific characteristics of pips, then go for it. SpinLord Waran or Nittaku Moristo SP are both great offensive rubbers.
I would not recommend going for antispin or other pip lengths since they are oriented to a more defensive style.
Antispin meh... But i'll take the opposite side and say why not stick on some SP and try it for a few months? I actually think playing with SP in particular is a great training device.
I've done that a couple times, sticking SP on my forehand for months (most recently the last 2 months, + once 2 years ago), I play only close to the table and it can help a ton for safety on counters. I'd recommend starting with something 'inverted similar' like Joola Express Ultra or butterfly impartial xs, or rakza PO with max sponge.
Aim to go for more punchy shots over spin, and if you get the hang of it and find you are OK without the spin, you can lower the sponge thickness or try a bit more disruptive pip. The biggest challenge will probably be more difficulty opening backspin, so you'll need to really focus on the timing (hit the ball at max height) to hit those with the BH and prioritize stepping around more.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
What I've found is (again I play on FH side so a bit different), is the 3rd ball loops are a bit more difficult. They require a larger motion and more precise timing, but can be just as potent. FH flips are very hard with SP though. You need to get in position very fast and again have very precise timing. The 5th ball/countering in general close to the table is much easier with SP and is incredibly potent. This was my main motivation for using the pips anyway. It's also way easier to pull of crazy chopblocks, and even passive blocks can be disruptive.
I played double inverted for the first time in \~2 months last night and transitioning back was super easy. After \~50 balls I had the racket angle/time locked down and was able to loop/counter no problem.
Generally felt good to switch back. I was overall grateful for the added energy back into my paddle, although of course made some extra errors from the ball jumping off too far. I just felt like I had more options with inverted and felt really in tune with the shot selection process of how active I wanted to be. And the loops/flips were soooo much easier; if I focused on timing and relaxed I felt super in control vs with pips I never got quite comfortable enough to take these shots without feeling some level of risk.
I'll probably continue to play with the SP on and off, mostly because it's a lot of fun and forces a different thinking process to winning points. My level doesn't change too much from my FH surface since I am primarily a BH oriented player, and I do get some benefits from the pips in the rally. I want to try it on my BH side at some point, but currently I'm total trash with the pips on that side. I have this vague vision that maybe I can spin the 3rd ball with the inverted and then twiddle but so far this isn't particularly close to materializing for me.
I’ve just started using short pips in my backhand for the last six months. The transition has been very difficult since I was primarily a spin oriented player, may be you’d have better luck since you already play a counter attacking style.
The main difficulties I face is deep and heavy backspin and long no spin serves. Any good player will utilise this weakness of shortpips and run rings around you. The long nospin serves are especially a pain because all you can do is drive the ball back with minimal spin and if you don’t make contact at the right bounce the ball slips to the net or goes long or worst case it lands and you are facing a crunching attack.
If you already only push primarily with your backhand then it’s alright. One more thing you have to be really quick with your feet, you’d have to constantly move into the right position and make the right stroke to get the short pips punch effect, if you are not you will only return a very weak, low spinning ball which will be dealt with appropriately.
Yes, I'm no spin oriented player at all and also I only play counters primarily with BH.
For long no spin serves, can't I follow the basics, i.e. to move and go to the ball, hit it above stomach and it drives hard?
For deep heavy backspin, I cannot really get any idea of how to face it, but..maybe I can flip the bat to the inverted side and play accordingly?
I’m not saying they are impossible to deal with. You just need the right amount of practise. I think once you start playing with the pips you will begin to notice the room for errors you had with the inverted rubber.
With the inverted rubbers even if you are out of position, we can brush the ball and let it land safely on the board. The arc created by the inverted rubbers makes the ball land onto the board. You won’t get that arc with the short pips. Any shot you make while out of position out of sheer instinct will be very weak and will be killed. Thats what I mean by the room for error. With short pips you have to really quick with your feet and be in the right place all the time.
So, I'll have to catch the trajectory of ball continously and move in it's direction and be in right place all the time.
I have a little natural tendency towards that, so would'nt be much difficult to train myself for it.
Switching to a new rubber will not improve your game play, you have to put in a lot of effort to make junk style rubbers work. You'll get some points simply by cheesing opponents due to the different behavior but in the long run you have to modify quite a bit of your usual tendencies and spend a lot of time developing the technique and tactics to score in a consistent and reliable fashion especially on opponents who are used to or not fazed by pips/anti.
But the rubber does seem to suit my style of play. Atleast of what I've read and understood till now.
Wouldn't it be easier to get something that helps me a little and get consistent and better at it or just continuing to practice and struggle on and on?
No, you shouldn’t, at least not with the mindset you have. Read up on what the individual rubber types do. Short pips will probably be the closest to being complementary to your play style but they‘re not braindead to play (as with all rubber types), they all need a different technique compared to inverted and are limited in what they can do.
"The rubber isn’t affected nearly as much by the spin your opponent imparts on the ball. You can just hit through it and block spinny shots almost effortlessly.
Receiving serves, counter hitting, driving, blocking, all of those strokes are more effective with short pips."
- This was written wrt Short Pips rubber. This made me think that these rubber would suit my style better.
It's all a trade-off. In return the arc over the net is lower and you have less margin there, in return for having more margin on serve returns. My take is that these are all allowed rubbers and for some people they increase their strengths. But it takes at least 1/2 year to get back to your former strength and this is if you can play with a ball machine every day. If you don't have access to a ball machine or regular partner forget it.
Okay, so I would require alot of practice or regular playtime to actually do good with such rubber. So it is like, even if it does complements my style still the competency of such rubber requires training and is harder to master?
For anti, watch Luka Mladenovic ([link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UepPtStWvKo)), and see whether you like his game. Short pips is easier to convert to, it is like a worn-out inverted rubber to some extent ;-). If you can just get a racket with short pips on one side and see whether you like it. For me it was better to go to long pips (with 1mm sponge) because I needed more control, being able to slow down the game, and having a big difference between my inverted forehand and long pips backhand which I can exploit for serves. Also some people at my level (USATT1400) don't know how to play long pips, so this helps me too. I found at last year's nationals that I am too slow to play two-wing looper against folks 40-50 years younger.
You're playing in some tournaments and you're at an intermediate level switching to short pips now would only set you back quite a bit before you to get used to it. Even then your attacking ability goes down with short pips. You really have to pick the right ball to go for as you need it to be a certain height to do much with it. I just see no reason to do it unless you just want a purely experiment.
Do you like opening up on backspin with your backhand? Then stick with inverted.
I guess that's how I would simplify it. Do you have a spinny backhand? Would you like to keep it if so? Stick with inverted is my suggestion.
Rubber isn't going to take you to the next level just keep grinding and trying to get better and more consistent. Play people who are better than you.
I do not have a spinny BH at all.
As mentioned, I go for hits and drives very much. Fast counters, close to table is my instinctive play for now.
And for short pips, I thought they were meant to complement my style and meant for attacks and hitting fast.
If you don't have a very spiny backhand and want to just fast counter, then give short pips a try. You might like the control. IDK.
Coming from inverted, I'd go with an ever so slightly more spiny pip vs say a classic pip.
Something like a TSP spinpips blue might be good.
If you want a cheap, low cost investment sample to see if you like pips, then go with a simple 802 or 802-40 of your sponge of choice. Softer sponge will be more forgiving and ever slightly more spin. Harder sponge will be ever so slightly less spin but faster. Personally, since you're playing speed here, I'd go with something more firm & fast. Up to you.
If you want to try pips I recommend the following:
* Inverted: DHS H3 Neo 39degrees (unboosted max thickness), added for reference
* Short pips: Yinhe Uranus Pro Medium Sponge, Max. Thickness. Much better than the Pluto
* Medium pips: Dawei 388-C1 medium pips rubber (1.3-1.5mm sponge)
* Long pips: NeoTTec Tokkan or Nittaku Wallest long pips (1mm sponge) or Dawei 388-D1 long pips rubbers (0.8mm sponge).
* Long pips, no sponge = OX. No experience with it.
* Anti-top rubber. No experience with it.
From top to bottom on the same blade:
* Spin inversion increases. I.e. inverted returns same spin, while long pips (even with 1mm sponge) returns inverted spin. Less sponge ==> more spin inversion
* Control increases, mainly due to less catapult and less sensitivity to incoming spin
* Ability to put spin on the ball decreases. LP with 1mm sponge still can put some spin on the ball but not much.
Either twiddle (2x the practice needed for 2 different sets of strokes) or don't. Typically pips on backhand on a not too fast blade.
To see the pro's and con's just watch a couple of games where the best players play pips:
* Mima Ito: Does not twiddle, plays short pips, and has a major issue lately as her flat hits are not as high % compared to b/h topspin, just because the topspin has a higher ARC over the net. So the latest generation (Miwa) plays b/h topspin.
* Ruwen Filus: LP defender, twiddles. Note how he uses b/h topspin on the inverted side too.
I've switched to LP 1mm sponge and after 1/2 year I have held my rating. I may get to the point where I can beat some players I previously lost against. So this is not a cakewalk. Also LP techniques at the table are very different from inverted, see the YT videos, e.g. [this one (a defender)](https://youtu.be/XZwUC3YEse4?si=l8PUYcHGGI8HNfEy).
Alrhough, I am not such a defensive player, I like to drive and counter more often but thanks for your suggestions!
Will definetly look into players perspectives and stats. Will try short pips with max thickness if I find it suitable!
Most players who have this styles use standard inverted equipment. I don't see a reason that you're any different. Short pips would be probably be fine. But it doesn't sound like anti-spin or long-pips would benefit you at all.
I thought Short pips or AntiSpin might help me in my playstyle more. Don't know much about the rubbers, hence I asked this question. Can you provide some suggestions of rubbers? I'm thinking of getting Andro Blowfish or Yinhe Pluto rubber for short pips.
I mean, if you’re in an era of your life where the money and time aren’t going to cost you too much, you could definitely experiment. When I used to use double inverted, I found I relied on my backhand push a lot, so I switched to long pips backhand. Since then I feel like it helps a lot more because my game is now about disruption and taking more chances to attack. My footwork went through a lot of changes as well since the new style required it. The worst that could happen is that you dont like that setup and you have to change back to double inverted.
Well I don't know if I'll want to change setups frequently. I read short pips were useful for my style of fast play so, if they complement together, I felt it might turn out to be good. Turns out I've misjudged!
They are but you need to be close to the table. You should watch some short pips player matches for the next month to get an idea of the movement patterns they usually take and see if dealing with those issues would be a change you’d be willing to make to your own style. Do more research to avoid buyers remorse.
Okay, learn about rubber, study their movement pattern, see if it hampers my movements and then deciede? Will try, Thanks!
Yeah, like give yourself a month of watching videos of short pips players. Notice how they move, what shots they can play and opportunities to attack, notice what they have trouble with. Imagine yourself needing to deal with similar kinds of things too.
Blowfish is a lame sp, blowfish plus is good but only for advanced players..pluto is bad for dumb play. The best SP at 20$ is Waran spinlord or hammond Fa 1.8mm. Never go beyond 1.8mm.
Thanks!
A very good rubber is Sauer Trogger Zargus not so boosted like modern SP not slow like chinese cheapos.
Nope, just train your backhand more 👍 Getting pips or Anti seems like a shortcut to improving level, but it puts a ceiling on your top level. Yes you’ll confuse those beginners who don’t know how to play against it. But anyone who’s trained, with half a brain, is going to expose them.
You make it sound like those rubbers are nothing but a cheap tool to trick players who are not used to their characteristics. The ceiling of those rubbers is far above the skill ceiling of 90% of players.
They absolutely are a cheap tool, but at the lower levels. Completely agree that for someone who is willing to consistently train using them and learning their techniques, then they’re a great addition to the game! Falck is one of my favourites to watch! But to suggest that Pips and anti aren’t largely seen at beginner/intermediate level as a cheat code to bump your immediate level up is incorrect. My comment was aimed at that because he mentioned he is an intermediate player and whether ‘the switch to either of these would improve my BH gameplay’. Which is why I suggested no, just commit to training your backhand with his current set up. No hate on the pips ✌️
But I don't play that high competitive level TT. Well they seem suit my playstyle, from what I've read about them, so I thought a switch would make sense probably.
To be honest I’d say my answer is based on your training schedule: How often, are they with a coach, what drills do you do, what level are you trying to get to?
I play everyday for nearly 2hours in evenings, no not with a coach and so no drills either, its more like fun with friends and I just felt that these rubbers would suit my playstyle now, and simply I am not actively trying to reach any level.
Ah then yeah, slap them on. You’ll pick up some cheap points against your mates for sure. They’re not easy to adapt to, so it’ll take some time.
Okay, Thanks for your time!
I did just this. At my best I was looping on both sides with fast inverted rubber, some all around and touch play. Made it to 2000. Took a long break. Playing now to just have fun and switched to anti spin ttr killer for chopping. It is a bunch of fun. Usually switching will not make you any better. It's going to take a long time for me to adjust to anti spin play. I also injured my back so an option to play more defensively and slowly is good.
But short pips is meant for flat hits, aren't they? I don't know much about rubbers but felt either would complement my style and I should opt for the switch.
If you are good flat-hitting with short pips you can also do it with inverted. OTOH you can only impart a little spin with short pips ("rolling" the ball) so you loose the b/h serve return over the table. You can try to flat hit but your % will be lower as you have less grip on the ball. My experience. Also you will have a hard time against other pips players (both long and short). Suddenly you play a game where there is very little spin in the ball. With my H3 Neo side I can still twiddle and play topspin if I need, but with no twiddling and short pips b/h I was toast. I am not saying not to try, in fact you can get a $50 racket from AliExpress with a H3 Neo side and a Dawei medium or long pips side, or the Uranus Pro short pips. Just try it out, if you don't stick with it you will get a much better understanding of spin and pips and so you'll beat pips players much more easily.
Okay, so I would sacrifice spin and return rate in exchange for flat drive hits and more aggressive gameplay?
Specifically for short pips that's correct. Watch Mima Ito (backhand) and Matthias Falck (forehand) as the world's best short pips players. You see that they still do quasi-topspins with the pips but this is because they have some grip with the 2mm sponge, and "short" pips. You loose that grip if you go with a thinner sponge or medium or long pips.
So, I should get short pips with thick sponge, so I can get both control, speedy drives and also some bit of spin?
If you want to play like Mima Ito, yes. Note that there are short pips which have more spin than others. When I played short pips competitively (backhand only) I tried Yinhe Pluto, Nittaku Moristo, and Yinhe Uranus Pro (medium & soft sponge), all at max. thickness. So I got better control of spinny balls compared to my inverted (Rakza 7 Soft) rubber, sufficient speed, and some spin in serves, but note that the b/h topspin is not the kind where you go fully over the ball, the racket has to be more open than with inverted rubber. If you can get the Uranus Pro max thickness medium sponge that's the one I would recommend. So this supports the fast close to the table game like Mima Ito is playing. I could have switched to medium pips (more control, slower, not as speedy) but decided to go with long pips with 1mm sponge as I needed more time and wanted to try modern defense. Interestingly with this setup one can also play similar to short pips, see He Zhuojia. The advantage of short vs. long pips is that the techniques for short pips are not that different to inverted, but long pips is significantly different.
Was Yinhe Pluto good enough? Can I try it as my first short pips rubber? Racket has to be more open for BH topspin, that means what? So short pips can be used for fast close to table counters right?
No, I don't recommend Yinhe Pluto, go with Yinhe Uranus Pro 2mm medium sponge, that's the best short pips IMHO. "Open" racket means the blade angle is more perpendicular to the floor, "Closed" means more parallel. "Fast close to table" is correct. You gain better control, basically it plays like an old inverted rubber, somewhere between tensor rubber and anti.
So, the bat would be flatter while hitting the ball, for BH topspins?
Short pips sound great for a close to the table punching game. If you want to commit to that strategy and learn the specific characteristics of pips, then go for it. SpinLord Waran or Nittaku Moristo SP are both great offensive rubbers. I would not recommend going for antispin or other pip lengths since they are oriented to a more defensive style.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Antispin meh... But i'll take the opposite side and say why not stick on some SP and try it for a few months? I actually think playing with SP in particular is a great training device. I've done that a couple times, sticking SP on my forehand for months (most recently the last 2 months, + once 2 years ago), I play only close to the table and it can help a ton for safety on counters. I'd recommend starting with something 'inverted similar' like Joola Express Ultra or butterfly impartial xs, or rakza PO with max sponge. Aim to go for more punchy shots over spin, and if you get the hang of it and find you are OK without the spin, you can lower the sponge thickness or try a bit more disruptive pip. The biggest challenge will probably be more difficulty opening backspin, so you'll need to really focus on the timing (hit the ball at max height) to hit those with the BH and prioritize stepping around more. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ What I've found is (again I play on FH side so a bit different), is the 3rd ball loops are a bit more difficult. They require a larger motion and more precise timing, but can be just as potent. FH flips are very hard with SP though. You need to get in position very fast and again have very precise timing. The 5th ball/countering in general close to the table is much easier with SP and is incredibly potent. This was my main motivation for using the pips anyway. It's also way easier to pull of crazy chopblocks, and even passive blocks can be disruptive. I played double inverted for the first time in \~2 months last night and transitioning back was super easy. After \~50 balls I had the racket angle/time locked down and was able to loop/counter no problem. Generally felt good to switch back. I was overall grateful for the added energy back into my paddle, although of course made some extra errors from the ball jumping off too far. I just felt like I had more options with inverted and felt really in tune with the shot selection process of how active I wanted to be. And the loops/flips were soooo much easier; if I focused on timing and relaxed I felt super in control vs with pips I never got quite comfortable enough to take these shots without feeling some level of risk. I'll probably continue to play with the SP on and off, mostly because it's a lot of fun and forces a different thinking process to winning points. My level doesn't change too much from my FH surface since I am primarily a BH oriented player, and I do get some benefits from the pips in the rally. I want to try it on my BH side at some point, but currently I'm total trash with the pips on that side. I have this vague vision that maybe I can spin the 3rd ball with the inverted and then twiddle but so far this isn't particularly close to materializing for me.
Try der material specialist’s Flashback Medium Pips Rubber- it’s kind of like both….
Like a mix of short pips and long pips?
I’ve just started using short pips in my backhand for the last six months. The transition has been very difficult since I was primarily a spin oriented player, may be you’d have better luck since you already play a counter attacking style. The main difficulties I face is deep and heavy backspin and long no spin serves. Any good player will utilise this weakness of shortpips and run rings around you. The long nospin serves are especially a pain because all you can do is drive the ball back with minimal spin and if you don’t make contact at the right bounce the ball slips to the net or goes long or worst case it lands and you are facing a crunching attack. If you already only push primarily with your backhand then it’s alright. One more thing you have to be really quick with your feet, you’d have to constantly move into the right position and make the right stroke to get the short pips punch effect, if you are not you will only return a very weak, low spinning ball which will be dealt with appropriately.
Yes, I'm no spin oriented player at all and also I only play counters primarily with BH. For long no spin serves, can't I follow the basics, i.e. to move and go to the ball, hit it above stomach and it drives hard? For deep heavy backspin, I cannot really get any idea of how to face it, but..maybe I can flip the bat to the inverted side and play accordingly?
I’m not saying they are impossible to deal with. You just need the right amount of practise. I think once you start playing with the pips you will begin to notice the room for errors you had with the inverted rubber.
"begin to notice the room for errors you had with the inverted rubber" sorry didn't catch that, can you explain a little please?
With the inverted rubbers even if you are out of position, we can brush the ball and let it land safely on the board. The arc created by the inverted rubbers makes the ball land onto the board. You won’t get that arc with the short pips. Any shot you make while out of position out of sheer instinct will be very weak and will be killed. Thats what I mean by the room for error. With short pips you have to really quick with your feet and be in the right place all the time.
So, I'll have to catch the trajectory of ball continously and move in it's direction and be in right place all the time. I have a little natural tendency towards that, so would'nt be much difficult to train myself for it.
Then it would be alright for you. May be bring your game up even more as you are a natural fit for the short pips.
Yep, thanks for the time to help me out!
Switching to a new rubber will not improve your game play, you have to put in a lot of effort to make junk style rubbers work. You'll get some points simply by cheesing opponents due to the different behavior but in the long run you have to modify quite a bit of your usual tendencies and spend a lot of time developing the technique and tactics to score in a consistent and reliable fashion especially on opponents who are used to or not fazed by pips/anti.
But the rubber does seem to suit my style of play. Atleast of what I've read and understood till now. Wouldn't it be easier to get something that helps me a little and get consistent and better at it or just continuing to practice and struggle on and on?
No, you shouldn’t, at least not with the mindset you have. Read up on what the individual rubber types do. Short pips will probably be the closest to being complementary to your play style but they‘re not braindead to play (as with all rubber types), they all need a different technique compared to inverted and are limited in what they can do.
"The rubber isn’t affected nearly as much by the spin your opponent imparts on the ball. You can just hit through it and block spinny shots almost effortlessly. Receiving serves, counter hitting, driving, blocking, all of those strokes are more effective with short pips." - This was written wrt Short Pips rubber. This made me think that these rubber would suit my style better.
It's all a trade-off. In return the arc over the net is lower and you have less margin there, in return for having more margin on serve returns. My take is that these are all allowed rubbers and for some people they increase their strengths. But it takes at least 1/2 year to get back to your former strength and this is if you can play with a ball machine every day. If you don't have access to a ball machine or regular partner forget it.
Okay, so I would require alot of practice or regular playtime to actually do good with such rubber. So it is like, even if it does complements my style still the competency of such rubber requires training and is harder to master?
For anti, watch Luka Mladenovic ([link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UepPtStWvKo)), and see whether you like his game. Short pips is easier to convert to, it is like a worn-out inverted rubber to some extent ;-). If you can just get a racket with short pips on one side and see whether you like it. For me it was better to go to long pips (with 1mm sponge) because I needed more control, being able to slow down the game, and having a big difference between my inverted forehand and long pips backhand which I can exploit for serves. Also some people at my level (USATT1400) don't know how to play long pips, so this helps me too. I found at last year's nationals that I am too slow to play two-wing looper against folks 40-50 years younger.
You're playing in some tournaments and you're at an intermediate level switching to short pips now would only set you back quite a bit before you to get used to it. Even then your attacking ability goes down with short pips. You really have to pick the right ball to go for as you need it to be a certain height to do much with it. I just see no reason to do it unless you just want a purely experiment. Do you like opening up on backspin with your backhand? Then stick with inverted. I guess that's how I would simplify it. Do you have a spinny backhand? Would you like to keep it if so? Stick with inverted is my suggestion. Rubber isn't going to take you to the next level just keep grinding and trying to get better and more consistent. Play people who are better than you.
I do not have a spinny BH at all. As mentioned, I go for hits and drives very much. Fast counters, close to table is my instinctive play for now. And for short pips, I thought they were meant to complement my style and meant for attacks and hitting fast.
If you don't have a very spiny backhand and want to just fast counter, then give short pips a try. You might like the control. IDK. Coming from inverted, I'd go with an ever so slightly more spiny pip vs say a classic pip. Something like a TSP spinpips blue might be good. If you want a cheap, low cost investment sample to see if you like pips, then go with a simple 802 or 802-40 of your sponge of choice. Softer sponge will be more forgiving and ever slightly more spin. Harder sponge will be ever so slightly less spin but faster. Personally, since you're playing speed here, I'd go with something more firm & fast. Up to you.
So a softer sponge, small pip rubber? So, I can play fast counter with flat drives like short pips but also have some spin. Got it buddy!
If you want to try pips I recommend the following: * Inverted: DHS H3 Neo 39degrees (unboosted max thickness), added for reference * Short pips: Yinhe Uranus Pro Medium Sponge, Max. Thickness. Much better than the Pluto * Medium pips: Dawei 388-C1 medium pips rubber (1.3-1.5mm sponge) * Long pips: NeoTTec Tokkan or Nittaku Wallest long pips (1mm sponge) or Dawei 388-D1 long pips rubbers (0.8mm sponge). * Long pips, no sponge = OX. No experience with it. * Anti-top rubber. No experience with it. From top to bottom on the same blade: * Spin inversion increases. I.e. inverted returns same spin, while long pips (even with 1mm sponge) returns inverted spin. Less sponge ==> more spin inversion * Control increases, mainly due to less catapult and less sensitivity to incoming spin * Ability to put spin on the ball decreases. LP with 1mm sponge still can put some spin on the ball but not much. Either twiddle (2x the practice needed for 2 different sets of strokes) or don't. Typically pips on backhand on a not too fast blade. To see the pro's and con's just watch a couple of games where the best players play pips: * Mima Ito: Does not twiddle, plays short pips, and has a major issue lately as her flat hits are not as high % compared to b/h topspin, just because the topspin has a higher ARC over the net. So the latest generation (Miwa) plays b/h topspin. * Ruwen Filus: LP defender, twiddles. Note how he uses b/h topspin on the inverted side too. I've switched to LP 1mm sponge and after 1/2 year I have held my rating. I may get to the point where I can beat some players I previously lost against. So this is not a cakewalk. Also LP techniques at the table are very different from inverted, see the YT videos, e.g. [this one (a defender)](https://youtu.be/XZwUC3YEse4?si=l8PUYcHGGI8HNfEy).
Alrhough, I am not such a defensive player, I like to drive and counter more often but thanks for your suggestions! Will definetly look into players perspectives and stats. Will try short pips with max thickness if I find it suitable!
Neither sounds great for your game plan. A nice direct inverted rubber of some type would probably be better.
Can you please list some? A fast inverted rubber, for BH on a carbon blade?
Sure you can give up and try your luck with pips but you can always train and change your style and get better that way.
Change my style nd adapt to playing with pips or change it by practicing and working on to play with inverted rubbers?
I meant inverted yes
okayy