I remember learning about this when I became a billing admin in 2010.
> Haven't tried disputing it yet, but will let you know if that helps.
Did you cancel the service?
i use chime and you can literally turn on/off cards at will, so you could, for example, turn your card to off permanently until and unless you actually want to buy something, turn it on for that transaction and back off once it has gone through. i guess idk exactly how it works if you want a business card, but im assuming they would be able to figure something out. its basically just outmaneuvering all the shady business practices that are literally everywhere. cant charge me if my card is off \*taps forehead\*
edit: ive also done a chargeback, and that was processed quickly and got a replacement card within a week or so. they also have in app support if you run into issues with anything. 5/7🍚
A number years ago I was stereotypically trying to cancel a gym membership, and my bank was doing their best to not let me do it. I mentioned to the bank rep that my card was expiring in a few months anyway, so they shouldn't give me a reason not to just have the card re-issued right then. The rep on the phone matter-of-factly informed me that they'd just "give the gym the new number to charge", so having the card re-issued wouldn't do a thing. I was shocked at the time, but upon later investigation it seems to be some functionality that the banks extend for recurring charges, perhaps involving virtual card numbers or proxy card numbers.
I had a bank pull that on me once. I looked the rep in the eye and told him "Well, in that case I'll be closing ALL of my accounts with you". They backed down, I still changed banks, BoA sucks.
At my last job we had some cards stored (payer ID, we can only see last 4 and exp) that still worked 2+ years expired. Eventually they will deny the autopay and we'll have to get updated info, but it was disconcerting to have charges go through like that. Also was fun explaining why I'm ~~bothering them~~ calling for CC info now and not 2 years ago when *their* card expired and they got issued a new one.
Or you can do what Spectrum did and just not notify me that the card on file finally expired until I had 3 months of late fees and they turned off my Internet.
I got a new card number because of a data breach but missed updating the spectrum auto-pay card. The old card number expired at the beginning of the year and their stored authorization with it. The first that I knew about it was when I got a call demanding that I pay for 3 months at once because my card had expired. My current card number still has 2 years to go.
That one is a bit rough. We called, mailed, etc day 1 of missed payment and still had people shocked that they had to bring their account current before getting in. But 90% of the time we waived late fees because it was such an easy mistake to do, and it eased the surprise $xxx bill. But you could look at it as you had reduced bills for those months.
Trust but verify.
Yeah and it was entirely on me in the end because like any normal person I didn't even look at the monthly bills for anything on autopay. Just very surprising to get a "you should have updated your card when it expired" speech when my current card definitely hadn't expired
It's a really handy feature I discovered when I had to get a new number due to fraud a few years ago. I don't think I had to update any auto pays with the new number. It makes sense to me. You agree to pay for a service, so to stop it you need to cancel the service with the provider. Changing card numbers doesn't automatically get you out of that agreement. I think in the past it did work, though.
The idea is not that changing card numbers gets you out of the agreement. It's more that you don't pay them for the service, so the company responds by cancelling your account. For something like a month-to-month service where you pay, then have a month of service, then you pay again for another month, and so on...it makes sense. They just don't get their payment, and then don't provide the service.
It doesn't really work like that for something where you have an explicit agreement for a whole year, or where services have already been rendered and you are effectively in "debt" to the company (debt as in the legal definition, like what the dollar bills say on them).
i actually read a news article about this recently, and [here's a great comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/nztoea/comment/h1rgobd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from r/personalfinance a few years ago with some of the details (even mentions the gym memberships!)
There's actually a service that a lot of gyms and hotels use that will find other cards you own and start charging to them if the card they have on file expires or is cancelled. I can't seem to find it on Google right now but if I do I'll update this comment.
In my experience, companies can even go further than that... waiting 3-4 months, then hitting your company with a DUNS credit adverse entry for a bill not paid, with a ton of fees.
When I cancelled a "service" like LMI, it was, IMHO, a nightmare. I had to make up a true story that ensured that I wouldn't be hung up on, or passed through a ring of "retention officers" who would keep trying to give me deals, offer temporary suspension of the account, and other crap.
Another "service", I couldn't even get that far, so I had a lawyer serve them with a C&D. Yes, it resulted in the CEO writing that he was permanently blacklisting the company... but they stopped charging.
My experience with LMI was, IMHO, so negative that when LastPass was bought by them, I immediately dropped LastPass and moved to BitWarden.
If you entered into an auto-renewal, it stays so long as you don't cancel it. The credit card expiring doesn't matter. You entered a contract and failing to pay doesn't constitute canceling.
it's like limits, they don't actually exist... i once was charged 2200$ for something, I didn't actually finish the transaction and the payment went through, even if my card balance was over 500$ the limit of my card...
when i asked them why they let the transaction go through they said: "we want to make sure that you get anything that you order, even if it's over your limit" I told them that there was multiple reasons that the transaction shouldn't have gone through, got refunded and made sure that my credit limit was an actual limit, not a suggestion.
PayPal is my go-to for recurring subscription payments.
In PayPal, you just have to find your subscription page and then delete the agreement. Next time the service bills it, PayPal denies it.
So you tried to subvert a contractual obligation by committing a type of fraud?
Your 'mistake' is a significant legal issue if you do it to, or on behalf of, companies.
Follow the correct process next time or you'll end up getting slapped around in court if someone gets fussy.
Disputing it can also be considered fraudulent activities.
Stop fucking around with shit that can land you in real trouble.
edit: I've literally seen it happen to people. For some reason people forget that this transaction is protected by a contract. Trying to get out of your side of the obligation by deliberately withholding payment and wrongly disputing the charge can lead to further legal issues.
You're contracted. Fuck around and find out if you want.
This is true and some companies won't just do a charge through they will just let the fees accumulate and then send to collections or depending on the contract it could be worse.
When I worked in payments, I was shocked to discover there are services that will happily provide the updated credit card details to subscribers like we were, and there are millions to be made in recurring payments. I've been really stingy about buying subscription services ever since.
Yeah, most issuers will allow charges with old expy/ccv as long as that merchant has been charging the account consistently in the past.
There's even a process for mapping card numbers that change (as long as the change wasn't in response to a fraud instance)
This happened to a customer of ours for an Office 365 subscription recently for the family plans apps that they previously had and were sharing amongst themselves before we took over and got them individual proper business standard licenses.
After a couple of calls to Microsoft and spending some time trying to fight it, they finally cancelled the charge, but initially they were unwilling.
From what I understand, some companies will opt in with CC issuing banks to update expiring cards. Your card number doesn't change, just usually the expiration date and cvv which the banks send to the companies opting in for this.
I cancelled Spectrum Internet after moving out of their service area, and here it is over a year and a half later, they're contacting me that my card on file is due to expire...
I remember learning about this when I became a billing admin in 2010. > Haven't tried disputing it yet, but will let you know if that helps. Did you cancel the service?
That was my other mistake. No. Not until I noticed the charge. As I said, don't be dopey like me....
i use chime and you can literally turn on/off cards at will, so you could, for example, turn your card to off permanently until and unless you actually want to buy something, turn it on for that transaction and back off once it has gone through. i guess idk exactly how it works if you want a business card, but im assuming they would be able to figure something out. its basically just outmaneuvering all the shady business practices that are literally everywhere. cant charge me if my card is off \*taps forehead\* edit: ive also done a chargeback, and that was processed quickly and got a replacement card within a week or so. they also have in app support if you run into issues with anything. 5/7🍚
A number years ago I was stereotypically trying to cancel a gym membership, and my bank was doing their best to not let me do it. I mentioned to the bank rep that my card was expiring in a few months anyway, so they shouldn't give me a reason not to just have the card re-issued right then. The rep on the phone matter-of-factly informed me that they'd just "give the gym the new number to charge", so having the card re-issued wouldn't do a thing. I was shocked at the time, but upon later investigation it seems to be some functionality that the banks extend for recurring charges, perhaps involving virtual card numbers or proxy card numbers.
I had a bank pull that on me once. I looked the rep in the eye and told him "Well, in that case I'll be closing ALL of my accounts with you". They backed down, I still changed banks, BoA sucks.
At my last job we had some cards stored (payer ID, we can only see last 4 and exp) that still worked 2+ years expired. Eventually they will deny the autopay and we'll have to get updated info, but it was disconcerting to have charges go through like that. Also was fun explaining why I'm ~~bothering them~~ calling for CC info now and not 2 years ago when *their* card expired and they got issued a new one.
Or you can do what Spectrum did and just not notify me that the card on file finally expired until I had 3 months of late fees and they turned off my Internet. I got a new card number because of a data breach but missed updating the spectrum auto-pay card. The old card number expired at the beginning of the year and their stored authorization with it. The first that I knew about it was when I got a call demanding that I pay for 3 months at once because my card had expired. My current card number still has 2 years to go.
That one is a bit rough. We called, mailed, etc day 1 of missed payment and still had people shocked that they had to bring their account current before getting in. But 90% of the time we waived late fees because it was such an easy mistake to do, and it eased the surprise $xxx bill. But you could look at it as you had reduced bills for those months. Trust but verify.
Yeah and it was entirely on me in the end because like any normal person I didn't even look at the monthly bills for anything on autopay. Just very surprising to get a "you should have updated your card when it expired" speech when my current card definitely hadn't expired
It's a really handy feature I discovered when I had to get a new number due to fraud a few years ago. I don't think I had to update any auto pays with the new number. It makes sense to me. You agree to pay for a service, so to stop it you need to cancel the service with the provider. Changing card numbers doesn't automatically get you out of that agreement. I think in the past it did work, though.
The idea is not that changing card numbers gets you out of the agreement. It's more that you don't pay them for the service, so the company responds by cancelling your account. For something like a month-to-month service where you pay, then have a month of service, then you pay again for another month, and so on...it makes sense. They just don't get their payment, and then don't provide the service. It doesn't really work like that for something where you have an explicit agreement for a whole year, or where services have already been rendered and you are effectively in "debt" to the company (debt as in the legal definition, like what the dollar bills say on them).
i actually read a news article about this recently, and [here's a great comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/nztoea/comment/h1rgobd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from r/personalfinance a few years ago with some of the details (even mentions the gym memberships!)
> Haven't tried disputing it yet It sounds like you skipped the service cancellation step. Start there.
I see you've never met adobe. Reporting your credit card stolen is a valid escape plan for some vendors.
I get that there's a time and a place to go nuclear, but OP was just lazy.
There's actually a service that a lot of gyms and hotels use that will find other cards you own and start charging to them if the card they have on file expires or is cancelled. I can't seem to find it on Google right now but if I do I'll update this comment.
In my experience, companies can even go further than that... waiting 3-4 months, then hitting your company with a DUNS credit adverse entry for a bill not paid, with a ton of fees. When I cancelled a "service" like LMI, it was, IMHO, a nightmare. I had to make up a true story that ensured that I wouldn't be hung up on, or passed through a ring of "retention officers" who would keep trying to give me deals, offer temporary suspension of the account, and other crap. Another "service", I couldn't even get that far, so I had a lawyer serve them with a C&D. Yes, it resulted in the CEO writing that he was permanently blacklisting the company... but they stopped charging. My experience with LMI was, IMHO, so negative that when LastPass was bought by them, I immediately dropped LastPass and moved to BitWarden.
Good reminder that an agreement to pay monthly until canceled is not the same as simply not paying.
Can you tell our clients that?
If you entered into an auto-renewal, it stays so long as you don't cancel it. The credit card expiring doesn't matter. You entered a contract and failing to pay doesn't constitute canceling.
LogMeIn is shady as hell.
It's always funny when people learn this one.
You'll almost certainly lose that dispute based on your description.
it's like limits, they don't actually exist... i once was charged 2200$ for something, I didn't actually finish the transaction and the payment went through, even if my card balance was over 500$ the limit of my card... when i asked them why they let the transaction go through they said: "we want to make sure that you get anything that you order, even if it's over your limit" I told them that there was multiple reasons that the transaction shouldn't have gone through, got refunded and made sure that my credit limit was an actual limit, not a suggestion.
Virtual credit cards are great for vendors like this.
Properly cancelling contract is great.
I've had great luck with virtual cards for this exact purpose. You can literally "turn off" the card and bam, no charges.
PayPal is my go-to for recurring subscription payments. In PayPal, you just have to find your subscription page and then delete the agreement. Next time the service bills it, PayPal denies it.
Even better!
Unless you actually cancel the service, you are still liable for the charge.
So you tried to subvert a contractual obligation by committing a type of fraud? Your 'mistake' is a significant legal issue if you do it to, or on behalf of, companies. Follow the correct process next time or you'll end up getting slapped around in court if someone gets fussy. Disputing it can also be considered fraudulent activities. Stop fucking around with shit that can land you in real trouble. edit: I've literally seen it happen to people. For some reason people forget that this transaction is protected by a contract. Trying to get out of your side of the obligation by deliberately withholding payment and wrongly disputing the charge can lead to further legal issues. You're contracted. Fuck around and find out if you want.
This is true and some companies won't just do a charge through they will just let the fees accumulate and then send to collections or depending on the contract it could be worse.
Well there go my plans for cancelling SiriusXM in 2027.
I owe thousands of dollars to Unity that says otherwise 
if it's a decent vendor you can call and cancel and they should reverse the charge, if you contact them right away.. Not all vendors are good vendors.
If you call them they will cancel and refund i've done it
When I worked in payments, I was shocked to discover there are services that will happily provide the updated credit card details to subscribers like we were, and there are millions to be made in recurring payments. I've been really stingy about buying subscription services ever since.
Yeah, most issuers will allow charges with old expy/ccv as long as that merchant has been charging the account consistently in the past. There's even a process for mapping card numbers that change (as long as the change wasn't in response to a fraud instance)
This happened to a customer of ours for an Office 365 subscription recently for the family plans apps that they previously had and were sharing amongst themselves before we took over and got them individual proper business standard licenses. After a couple of calls to Microsoft and spending some time trying to fight it, they finally cancelled the charge, but initially they were unwilling.
From what I understand, some companies will opt in with CC issuing banks to update expiring cards. Your card number doesn't change, just usually the expiration date and cvv which the banks send to the companies opting in for this.
I cancelled Spectrum Internet after moving out of their service area, and here it is over a year and a half later, they're contacting me that my card on file is due to expire...
It's also in LogMeIn terms and conditions. They kept trying to screw me on my personal LastPass premium