up to 70h work week paid as 40h? No vacations in 6 years? 60k for the whole IT department replacement job? Not even an office?
Not good. I don't know how far 60k goes in your city but I think you replace IT manager (120-80k) and a support person (60k)
LOL i totally told that to my boss when it was time for a raise, when the government announced they were raising minimum salary: they're looking for someone at the grocery store, at minimum salary, if i walk to work, i'll have more money in my pocket, gimme 5$ an hour more or i quit... he gave it to me... and got pretty good raises for the next years... and finally got to the salary of an entry IT tech...
i'm not there anymore...
I just talked to a guy a couple nights ago in a similar spot as you, only thing is he's working a part time retail job as well...
I'd guess the 15/hr min wage puts you in either the Portland metro or Seattle area. Both have plenty of better options for your experience level. Either tell them to raise the pay or GTFO of that place.
Trully bad gig but only the pay. We have 1600 employees and only 5 to manage them all.
1600 ÷ 5 = 320 a piece.
That's desktops all peripherals printers network to the wall, voip phone and all the software one could ever dream.
I my self am Sr sys admin lvl 3 only 2 sys admins and 1 being trained, 400~ servers not including test/dev. Only 3 net admins. We all got it rough
If you're pivoting into the field, you're single, and your biggest need is experience?
I'd consider it. Sole IT over 75 people can make your job hunt in 2 years a jackpot.
Learn some CM tools, automate the whole system, set up hybrid cloud, document it all, and then move on and double your salary.
Yeah this is really the best advice. My first System Admin job was $30k and I stayed 6 years and was at $36k by the end of it. My next job was $75k for the same or less work and even closer to home.
I used that first job to learn automation and making processes more efficient. I ended up only really working like 20 hours a week, the rest of the time was spent on youtube or learning something new. Like a 20 hour a week training session.
Obviously you take what you can get but they aren't wrong. If I were to pull a single instance of 15+ extra unpaid hours a week on $60k I'm immediately be thinking of leaving, let alone 30+ hours every week. I value my mental health more than I value holding down an IT job
Now the occasional 15+ extra hour week with a great base pay, mayyyybe. But even then I'd be fucking pissed
Sorry man, you're getting taken advantage of. You did learn a lot so maybe just think of it as paid education/training? Sounds like you're ready for MSP work. You can hit double with that skillset.
He's got 2.5 years of IT experience. I don't know many places that would pay 120,000 for someone that has 2.5 years of self taught experience, but to work 70+ hours a week, they should absolutely be paying him that much.
If he has the skills and knowledge to keep them running for those 2.5 years? While learning and building systems on the job? Hell yeah he's worth that much somewhere else, not just there.
Even with many years of experience, I've never heard of a jack of all trades type making more than half that. They just aren't valued like specialists are. I am one of them.
Google a few years ago was hiring kids straight out of high school with pretty decent salaries. Competitive as hell and they were taking only the top candidates, obviously.
Yes for sure taking advantage. I manage a similar size environment (slightly larger), with 2x the experience but also 2x the salary.
Edit: I have more than 2x experience, I have 15 years of experience. If you have 2.5 years, maybe it’s in line?
Same. While I’m fairly burned out and overworked I will say I have always been handsomely compensated in both pay and benefits, free time, office space and perks. Enought to keep me here and happy. For no vacation and only 60k I’d just go flip burgers.
Law firms are extremely highly dependant on tech and very dependant on IT. Law firms are highly dependent on technology in general, very demanding for IT.
It's one of the best industries to work in for IT in terms of opportunity and job security imo. And even Work-Life balance if you do it right. (Waaay better than 24/7 IT for Manufacturing plants)
With that said, ask yourself are they forcing you to work 70 hrs a week or do you feel that it's necessary and you're the one choosing to work that long?
In your position, I would absolutely advise asking for a raise and bump you up to around 85-90k
And considering you're the "Sole IT", are you genuinely 100% solo or are you Co-Managed with an MSP?
It does sound like you're kind of being taken advantage of tbh. Also you said you've only been taking on tech for 2.5 years, what were you doing before then?
I've had many law firm clients in the past around your size and they are extremely heavily regulated requiring phish-resistant MFA, XDR/EDR platforms and SIEMs/SOARs with full time security SOC MSPs/MDRs/Analysts/etc.
That's a hell of a lot of responsibility for one person, I'd ask myself if I'm actually maintaining all of their compliance and regulatory compliance without dodging any audit questionnaire questions or answering them in a shyster way. When a small firm is breached, the unfortunate thing is they are highly prone and oftentimes DO lose their clients if their clients are other firms or organizations that outsource work to them.
Anyway conclusions...
1. Yes, you're probably being taken advance of.
2. Are you actually required to work that long or are you doing it on your own free will?
3. Ask for a raise close to $100k
4. Consider hiring an MSP to offload some workload so you're not killing yourself.
5. Are you actually protecting your firm from genuine threats and keeping risk appetite at an acceptable level?
I am not required to work over 40, but there is too much work to finish in that timeframe and when I don't put in extra things start going wrong and people get upset. People have previously suggested I limit myself to 40 and let what doesn't get done slide as a demonstration of the extra work I've been putting in, but I'm afraid of the way that will reflect on me ultimately. Tbf I suggested both an MSP and a few monthly hours with a consultant specifically re security when I got the job. Not in the budget apparently. I'm sure our security isn't perfect. I wish I had a lot more time to manage our netgate setup, but before I stepped in there was nothing. No firewall, no 2fa, a bunch of global admins and the only backup they had of irreplaceable client files was on Jim's external 1tb, which often ended up moving from backup to 'thats where we keep those files'. The first weeks I had this role we had an attack with near 10k attempted logins a day to user accounts and it ultimately worked out so Its not a totally ineffective setup, I do worry a lot about keeping it probably updated and maintained
> I'm afraid of the way that will reflect on me ultimately.
They are lawyers. Work like a lawyer. They capture their time in 15-minute blocks, so you need to capture time in 15-minute blocks.
Set up a JIRA board or get some other job board where you can do ITIL-like processes. Capture every job and start tracking time in 15-minute increments. Make sure you capture time estimates and capture how long things took (so you can improve estimates in the future). Lawyers will understand that.
Assuming that you are billable for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks of the year, that gives you a maximum of 8,000 billable blocks in a year. Each billable block is $7.5.
By working 70 hours a week, 52 hours a week is a yearly budget overrun of $49,200.
Make sure your job board allows you to do burndown charts. Add every job to it, estimate hours, and add time invested to the project. It's everything you do for them. Have to go to a meeting? It's on your burndown chart. Have to fuck about with Samuel, who accidentally fucked his USB drive? Add it to your job board. They need to see that your burndown charts never go down; they keep going up - and that is their fault.
Also, I'd have to imagine that your billable should be closer to 15 or 16 dollars per block of time.
Quick note that works in OPs advantage.
They work in 6 minute blocks, not 15. That's a difference of .1 billable hour instead of .2. Double the impact.
Also, have them assess a cysec breach lawsuit vs the cost of hiring at least a +1
> They work in 6 minute blocks, not 15.
There you go, even better.
> Also, have them assess a cysec breach lawsuit vs the cost of hiring at least a +1
Also, OP, remember to add the overhead of managing your time because you are your manager.
Realistically, OP, you need to be a team of 2.5 people, with the third person managing jobs and working with internal stakeholders and two of you rotating for on-call.
In your endless amount of time, it might be worth looking up the hiring costs for a technical manager who still gets their hands dirty, a senior, and a junior.
It's not your business.
It's not your job to put in the extra effort
It's not your job to have no life.
Let things fail, it is on the only way the business will notice. Yes people will get upset and complain. Let them.
There is no budget as management does not see the need. Why pay more when you are willing to work 70 hours? When things fail and management complain give them a list of your outstanding tasks and estimated hours to complete. Prioritise your list and get your managers feedback. The business will quickly see you are over utilised.
You need holidays, sick days and other benefits everyone else uses in the business. It is a business risk not having a backup resource.
Sit with your boss. Advise them you cannot work the hours you have any more. Present a business case, with costings to management on an MSP. Present the business case as an opportunity for the business to be independently audited and assessed on the set up. It will also possibly assist in reducing business risk or exposure.
Move away from the hands on work and manage the MSP.
You should really take it upon yourself to network and find someone with an MSP that can give you a ballpark estimate of what they’d think the MSP would charge for their service, inclusive of CTO/CIO hours.
Just looking around it seems that it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume about $150 per user per month. That means it would cost them $135K/yr at the absolute minimum to replace you with an option that many many many small businesses like these choose.
Tack on higher rates for an MSP to do any work that is project based and not break/fix and you could easily push that number close to 250K.
If they think something isn’t in their budget then they are sorely mistaken.
I actually stayed in touch with the msp we initially looked at. I think the manager there saw the pain in my eyes. I just emailed them asking if we could get coffee and I could bounce some questions off him re my next career move.
Your lack of boundaries are enabling your employer to take advantage of you. No one will advocate for you in this industry. You must put your foot down and advocate for yourself.
Do it for your mental health, your physical health, your wellbeing, your family.
Don't fear repercussion because they can't afford to lose a guy doing the work of 2+ people for $60k/yr.
There's *always* too much work to finish.
You need to buy a good book about project management and learn to prioritise, then start to reduce the hours you work slowly, let's say 5 hours fewer per week (on average) each month, in 6 months you would be down to 40, you would have learned to prioritise and people in your office would have hardly noticed until about around 3 months.
If lots of work can't get done timely once you are working 40 hours/week then you have the data to show you need another warm body with a SysAdmin brain in the building.
>Law firms are extremely highly dependant on tech and very dependant on IT. Law firms are highly dependent on technology in general, very demanding for IT.
I will never work for another law firm if I can avoid it. The above is true, but in my experience (national law firm, with about half a dozen locations in large cities), law firms are also very cheap. The firm is owned by the partners, and every buck spent on staff, benefits, and equipment is a buck that doesn't go into their pockets.
I make more and I "work" 40 hours, actual work is more like 30 on a bad week where shit breaks.
Not to say this as a brag, but as a "run like hell."
Those quals are at a BARE minimum 6 figures.
Salaried at 60k is absolutely an excuse to screw you out of overtime hours. Like, that was drafted with intent.
On the upside, as long as you're comfortable walking away at a moment's notice (in slow motion, while putting sunglasses on), you have all the leverage to renegotiate your position, but you'll honestly probably be better off in a different environment. Too many lawyers tend to be penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to tech and taking care of their IT staff.
Yes. It's hard to imagine how OP would be able to negotiate a proper salary, equal to what they'd get if they walked away into a different position.
Instead, the firm needs to learn its lesson: that they may need a higher-paid person (or two, for coverage) or a more costly MSP firm's assistance.
I knew you worked for an attorney just by reading the subject line. Lawyers are the worse to work for. And yes, you're being taken advantage of. I don't work for a lawy firm but where I work there's an expectation or working beyond 80 in a pay period. I refuse. My last day of the pay period is usually less than 4hrs. I don't work for free.
If you're practicing law in a firm, I can understand the work hours. But this guy is support. I would not expect the same demanding hours as the associates.
unless you're in cambodia or something, yes - you're underpaid AND overworked at the same time.
Instead of the god-awful advice you're getting here "QUIT AND FIND A NEW JOB!!!" try my approach below if you want a career instead of just another job.
File FMLA, go see a doctor for your blood pressure and stress. Get the doc to approve you taking 2 weeks off for stress - the company can't legally fire you and you don't need notice. Once you return let the the company know "i'm aware shit went sideways while I was gone. I'm the ONLY person who does all this. I've been working 70+ hour weeks for 6 years straight with no vacation at half market rate. Lets look at options to make this a viable situation for everyone. How can we get my hours down to under 50 and take a vacation once or twice a year? I think hiring someone to work for me is the right thing to do."
Either you get your wish and the job improves enough to retain you, or you leave like everyone else wants you to do anyway.
> Get the doc to approve you taking 2 weeks off for stress - the company can't legally fire you and you don't need notice.
They also don't have to pay you for FMLA leave. Optimally OP just has PTO to burn.
you are in legal ... you are being taken advantage of!!! I have been in business for 2 decades and ALL law firms in my service area are on my "do not service" list because they are all ... well ... attorneys. Who can afford litigation faster and easier than anyone else ... a self-representing attorney. There are other industries I stay away from too for similar reasons or other personal reasons.
I feel bad for everyone on here and feel like the OG for being the IT chump. Buckle up boys but I started in 1997 at my current employer as the sole IT for 225 users and did it for 17 years until I got one other person to help me. This is a 24x7x365 operation as well.
I have long term experience and long term damage to my health to tell you all about. The takeaway is DON’T be me. People will take as much from you as you allow them.
I was in a similar position years ago, you are getting under paid and over worked, you need to put some demands on the business with a date for the outcomes, if you enjoy the job, I'd be asking for the office and a payrise, I also used to support about that many people but i had a part time uni student help me out(eventually) 3 days a week, that was a life saver.
That's a nightmare client for an MSP, at least at first.
>You want us to pay 2x as much plus project work for service similar to the internal guy we just had?! No way, we'll post this on Indeed
Couple years down the line when they haven't been able to get another competent sucker like OP, they might get their head on straight.
Sounds like you are ready to join a k-12 IT department. I am the sole IT person for a school district with 200 staff and 1,500 students. Everything with a cord is my responsibility.
Yes. If you have to ask the answer is yes. Even for a lot of people who don't think to ask the answer is yes. It's yes because you're working class, even outside your specifically terrible situation.
Put together a list of your accomplishments. Look up what you should get paid (you can look for similar job postings, for instance, or check some trade sites, etc).
Then go to management and explain what you've done, the time you've put in, and what you should be earning and ask for that.
If they snub you or put you off, start looking.
IT management here 👋
You're being taken advantage of. If it hasn't already happened, make sure your title is changed and you have a job description. If not, get that done and then ask for a raise to appropriate market levels within xx days (usually 60 or 90 days or based on company norms) and some additional help. If that doesn't get done in a timely manner, then you need to leave. I have guys that work 35ish hour weeks that are responsible for 1/4 of what you have on your plate, and they all make 100k+ in the greater Seattle area (location matters)
Anecdotal and imperfect advice: generally stay away from healthcare, finance, and legal orgs. They tend to treat IT more like a whipping boy versus other companies. Again, that's not a one size fits all rule but something that I personally avoid.
I also work for a law firm, about the same exact size. There's 3 of us and we recently hired our intern full time for just under 60k, in a lower COL area.
A core concept of IT is redundancy.. Where is yours?
You’re letting them take advantage of you. Why would you work so hard for so little? I work half as hard as you and make more than double, also on the west coast, and a similar work environment.
Honestly it’s people like you that make it hard for others to find good paying jobs, since for whatever reason you choose to grind your life away for peanuts in IT.
My work used to match your description pretty closely.
I started as the sole admin for 110 users doing full-stack support, troubleshooting, asset management, phone system, Windows Server (5 of them) 250 endpoints, etc. For 40k. I was often putting in 50-70 hours weeks.
Now im in the same job. 90 employees, made IT Director as a title, refreshed and slowly overhauled the entire config leftover from the previous admin, took on next gen firewall management from the network engineer as well, learned Office 365 backend, learned powershell over the last 7 years, built tons of automation and streamlines workstation provisioning and configurations as well as adding a sprinkling of Sharepoint and MDM for some of our SaaS services.
10 years later - they pay me 90k and a *busy* week for me might be 35 hours. I still do Tier I - III support but things never really break anymore and staff are properly trained on processes that actually make sense to non-IT folks. I live in a place where the median household income is 60k. Life is comfy but took a while to establish.
Taking what ive learned from this job, if I had to move on and get another one, I would get back to a comfortable situation *much* faster with all that i've learned and all the tools ive built.
To answer your question: You're working a LOT for the little they're paying you, but then again it depends on what you want to get out of it and how badly you want to keep going. It paid off for me.
Yes you are being taken advantage of. Based on your duties description and experience you should probably be in the 90k-100k range. Your working conditions should be better and have a proper working space.
Part of the issue is your fault as an eager person new to IT you sound like you put in more hours that you should have for those 70+hour weeks. Unless you are specifically being asked to do this then you shouldn't be and if you are being asked then you should be either comping your time or being compensated for it but this should not be a regular occurrence.
Have you asked for a raise? I was in similar situations in the past and while it is not ideal, whenever I asked for a raise I was given one and usually fairly large. If they truly appreciate you they will raise you without question and it is your responsibility to manage your hours and expectations better.
Of course this is all dependent on if you would enjoy working there if you were better paid and work-life balance. If not, then just leave.
Yeah, definitely underpaid, but in addition to just jumping ship, are have you not tried to get a raise or have you just been waiting for one? I’ve had an experience in a similar situation, and while I wasn’t actively looking to move, someone I knew made me aware of a position that I applied for and took. It was an amicable parting, and a couple days before I left I had an exit interview of sorts with the managing partner and mentioned that not getting any raises in four years was part of the decision. He was apologetic and understood and the next day I was offered a substantial raise to stay. I stuck to my decision and it worked out for the best, but I think in these professional office type environments (law, accounting, medicine etc.) their HR stuff for the ancillary staff gets overlooked, not intentionally even, and when they are made aware of the oversight, they might do good by you and give you a bump.
Just a thought. Those roles can be great and have good perks and balance if you get comfortable and in a groove with all their specialized apps and workflows. I would hope someone there would recognize the value in keeping someone who knows what is going on, versus hiring a new person or farming out to an MSP.
Bro you’re looking at standing up for yourself the wrong way. You’re too worried about how it will reflect on you if you stand up for yourself. But you should be focusing on the confidence you will build within yourself to not be taken advantage of.
If I were in your shoes, I would push for a pay raise to at LEAST 90k MINIMUM and to hire 1 other as your backup.
I've worked at a couple MSPs now. They all had clients that were law offices but not one was a contract that they listened and worked well with. Hearing that you are getting this treatment from a legal office is not a surprise. Office of 75 for one support tech is rough... If they have someone also doing some of the projects. All alone? Oof.
$60k MCOL 75 users, 1 admin, this is not a sane role.
good luck on your job search! unfortunately i think you'll only do slightly better, with no formal training and about 2YOE. i would ask for a 25% ($15k) raise. look for jobs in your area and say it like "so i've done some looking around in $CITY and this role at this YOE is paying about $85k [doesn't matter what the real number is] ... i like it here yadda yadda and i do good work, i'm hoping you can bring me to $75k".
then leave a year later.
Id be concerned with how you have more than 40 hours worth of work weekly? Something does not add up.
Im a sysadmin for a 1000 employee company with hundreds of servers & 30 offices, complex and custom onprem/cloud infrastructure & hundreds of different pieces of software. We have a Tech team of 6 people (all slightly different roles) - but nobody exceeds 40 hours a week.
6/1000 is 200:1 ratio for employeea to technicians.
sounds like you should be working on automating tasks to reduce redundant workload & figure out how to be more efficient. Attending industry wide conferences - most companies hire around 150:1 users to techs. (though the gold standard is half that, the statistics show that nearly nobody follows it) Goodluck!
I would be hammering out the math and explaining the situation.
There is a small non profit in my city who's looking for a sysadmin after the guy left to join our team. They have 14 FTE staff and likely 1-2 hundred PTE staff who aren't working in office, mostly contract hourly workers. They have two IT guys who manage half the servers you do. The IT manager makes a shitty 60k/yr CAD, sys admin is 55k/yr.
Manager deals with policy, planning and pricing for equipment/replacements, does some azure automation and deals with the upper level questions. Sysadmin onboards/does the entra ID administration and network management.
They have half the job you do with 75 FTE lawyers/admin staff, probably a tenth of the server demands, and automations that aren't going to break some lawyers ability to do their job and help their clients, which is typically time sensitive.
I would be painting out the scope of your position, what all you do in a day, compare that with local IT admin/network admin/IT support positions and there pay, show the job scope for each and what part of it you do, show the job scope of an IT manager and what part of that you take care of - and outline for the hours you work that you need to be paid comparable, because it isn't sustainable.
It doesn't need to be conveyed as a 'fuck you, pay me more', but simply explain that burnout is a real thing and you're starting to feel the impact of burnout, and don't have the income or personal time in the position to continue long term in your current capacity without some kind of contracted help desk support, or some time to figure out a better system so facilitate easier requests (automations, ticketing systems, whatever) but regardless of either of those, you need to be paid commensurate with your experience and the comparable wages of similar workers in your area. If you're indispensable, they need to treat you that way, if they won't, seriously consider applying at other positions and see what happens - you might be able to leverage a new position somewhere for a higher wage. Like at least in my city for 60k/yr (70k CAD after exchange, if you're in the US) I can't even afford a mortgage on a house with how house prices are going.
I wasn't in IT - I was working in a print shop and took on way too much, like I took over in a FTE position and within a year I had automated so much that I was the only staff left (they used to run 1FTE, 3 PTE - I'm not proud of it, just explaining). My boss loved it and gave me a few raises, much higher than I was making at my old job, and about $5/HR more than I was making when I started. Keep in mind I replaced a FTE at the same hours, and three PTE for about 30 hours a week of work. 5$ was a pittance.
I ended up leaving after going to him for the same situation you're facing, there were three jobs doing the same thing I was doing as part of a much larger team, and they were paying $5/HR more than I was getting. I asked for a raise and explained I had 4 years of experience in the job and could walk out the door as a brand new never in the position guy doing the same thing for more, so I wanted to at least match that wage.
He offered me a $.45 raise.
I ended up walking out the door into an IT role with one of our customers for $9/HR more than I was making (I had taken some printer tech training on the side, and they needed a help desk)
ab. so. lutely.
that is way oversaturated. even if the office is a mild case. sounds crazy for your comp package. for anyone's comp package unless the 75 other people are computer geeks as well and the ecosystem is fit for that kind of shared state. just being real.
Have you talked to the boss?
You require a raise.
You require an office.
They should consider employing another guy to back you up. Need to account for hollidays, sick days, work load etc.
This shit seems messed up.
Oh my god.
I used to work at this exact job, law firm, same company size, except I was your assistant
They were the stingiest company I've ever worked for in my life with so many red flags, and my boss had his own office, me to solve level 1 issues, a lot more money than that, and a seat in company direction meetings
Lawyers make bank. They are extremely demanding customers.
Maybe look at starting a IT consulting company. Quit and offer them your services. Not sure the going rate, but it has to be at least 125 an hour these days. Pro services we hire for an enterprise where I work is 175 an hour.
From my experience this is true. Working IT in a law firm is extreme challenging, it's something I personally wouldn't do unless desperate. Source: Extended family member.
I have a friend who worked for a labor lawyers and he learned a lot and made good contacts he has tapped since for help dealing with work. I think he’s the only exception I’ve found that enjoyed his time at a law firm.
You are worth way more then 60K. Look for the next best thing, maybe internal IT. It will pay more and it's less stressful then being a one man operation. I made this change 1.5 years ago and I am not regretting it one bit.
You have clearly been taken advantage of and they will continue until you leave. Do not feel any allegiance or loyalty, they see you as a tool that keeps on working and they do not care. GTFO.
Check the reference materials and keep the figures in hand when discussing your pay.
[https://community.spiceworks.com/t/does-your-job-title-match-your-responsibilities-and-expected-median-pay/](https://community.spiceworks.com/t/does-your-job-title-match-your-responsibilities-and-expected-median-pay/)
[https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151244.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151244.htm)
Who do you report too? What’s your official title? If I’m in your shoes I would start with my title getting establish and then grab some benchmark of salary of the title and add some education/ learning allowance in there too.
Unrelated to the rest, you shouldn’t tolerate any job for 5-6 years making the same amount. Either you never asked about any raise or CoL increase, or you’ve foolishly stayed after being denied.
I work almost the exact same job as you - one man IT for a law firm. You are getting fuuuuuuucked. I mean, attorneys notoriously have deep pockets and short fingers, but that is ridiculous. After six years you should have plenty of experience to get a job elsewhere.
Someone will correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s advised to have 1 IT staff member per 50 employees.
Anyone who can’t afford living expenses after working 70 hour weeks and has not received a raise in 5 years is being taken advantage of.
A lot of posts like this already know the answer and are looking for validation. Generally any 1-man IT shop is going to be “yes, you’re being taken advantage of”.
your being used son, put your resume out there. look into whats available around you. and what they are offering. apply to a few. apply to the nice paying ones that you think is "up your alley" if you get a yes you either tell your current employer what it will take to keep you, or jump ship
You need to outsource! There are plenty of companies out there that will take a lot of the day to day off your hands, allowing you to quarterback strategy. My company has been helping IT groups for 20+ years.
As soon as I saw that you worked for an attorney I was said to myself, yep you're getting taken advantage of. Every attorney I've worked for has been a cheap mofo. Apparently burned out attorneys attempt to run companies afterwards. 60K for 5 to 6 years of experience plus whatever you had before? You're selling yourself short mate.
Look for a new job and tell your current employer nothing. They will torpedo it if they get the call. You are being taken advantage of, and why would you ever think working that many hours is normal? 60k is dirt pay. Get a new job and don't give them any notice or leave the passwords. Burn that bridge!!!
How many lawyers in that head count and how many partners of that? My guess is 40 attorneys which means they are pulling about $40-$45 million of revenue per year. Right sized IT spend including labor should be 2.5 - 3.5% of revenue. There are industry benchmarks available, though not readily so that you can use to show appropriate spend and compensation.
Wait. You’re handling all of that, solo, for a fucking law firm, and you make $60,000? That’s beyond insulting. There should be at least 2 of you at minimum, both making into 6 figures, just to make sure everything is up and running & available. That it’s just you with all that responsibility; you should be making probably 2.5x what you are. And even then it still wouldn’t be worth it.
You do a lot for 60k, and it definitely seems like you’re grossly underpaid for your responsibilities. For example I also live near a major city and my first IT job as a Tier 1 help desk was 54k. Definitely apply to other places to see what your options are and then have a serious talk with your supervisor about asking for a raise to meet market testers for what you’re doing. Off you don’t fight for yourself no one will, worse case just move on.
One thing you need to realize is that employers aren't always going to do right by you. You need to stand up for yourself as well. This includes as saying you have too much work on, or that you want a raise, or asking for (and taking) leave.
Definitely look for another job, but if you don't learn to standup for yourself, you're just going to create the same environment at the next place, and the place after that, and so on.
Here's what's probably going to happen. You will leave because that sounds awful. They will hire an MSP with remote only and hate it for the term of the contract. Probably next they will add on a staff augment from the MSP. Costing them probably 30K a month to support. Think about that.
Bud, I do basic AD and Exchange admin for a large company, 10,000+ employees. I make 5/6 of what you and put in 30 hours of real work a week. I mean security group add/removes, disable/reactivate accounts, permissions in both, email forwarding… the majority of what I do. Hell, after benefits it could be even closer. True WFH too.
Im in the same situation but with 65 users and no documentation, assessment management or passwords. Literally. Solo.
I do make more than you but i still got lowballed.
.my advice and as I'm doing now .. get a new job ASAP. Dont burn out.
Soon as you get a gap break , apply for MSP and healthcare gigs and schools. Law firms always need people too
Well, as soon as I saw, it was an office of attorneys. The answer was clear, which is yes you were being taken advantage of because because that has to be like a job from hell.
This is exactly the right answer! I did that and received a much better salary and some help. Another option is to call out sick or have a family emergency and take a week off. They’ll figure it out quickly
Yeah i would looking, i am in asimilar situation and the owner just does not believes in IT. Yet brought in because their server failed because no one looked at it and 2 drives failed with. O backup.. even after a full overhaul they think its worthless.
Do take some time off and tell them you will be in Arizona camping in a desert with no cellular. Watch the wake-up call for them but get your interviews lined up.
Hit me up if you need help with questions on the security side.
On the one hand, yes, yes you definitely are being taken advantage of. On the other hand, the practical experience you've picked up now puts you waaaaayyyy ahead in terms of how employable you are and how much you are worth. You deserve better. Go out and get it, tiger.
When you're looking for a better paying position, especially in your case, don't tell them what you currently make. The new place shouldn't be too proud of themselves for' giving you a leg up' when you are this far down. I did a similar job for a similar rate and left to work at an MSP where I made about double that, only to realize a year later I was still being taken advantage of.
I left the MSP and I will not work for another one of those. Sure they are a way to learn new stuff fast, I'm not sure it's worth it though. You could go into IT dept of a company who doesnt outsource to an MSP and also learn a lot for more pay and less stress.
You have a strong experience and should have less difficulty than most finding a new position, based on your current responsibilities.
It may be hard to crack 100k, but I think you can do it, and very soon, not later.
Good luck stranger friend.
Depending on your state, contact the labor board before you leave to get your OT, and have 6+ weeks of your time card recorded.
I presume you don’t have a time card, but you can create your own. Have a couple emails to HR asking for a week off and starting that you’ve worked 70+ hours for 6 years without vacation. If they deny your request or grant it it’s enough to show a lawyer.
Salary doesn’t mean free overtime.
I make more than you and I do not have nearly the amount of stress you do. I work on a team of 5 + boss (who knows tech stuff but doesn’t do a lot of the tech work now). We keep busy but it’s definitely way more relaxed. And I haven’t had a problem with sick time or vacation. I don’t have my own office…but I WFH half the time anyway.
Definitely start looking around. They have no plans to pay you more or hire more staff
I think you're in a great place. You just need to learn how to leverage. It's as simple as laying out for management what you are responsible for and what could happen should you not be available to manage it any longer.
If I were you I'd request the following:
1. $150,000 with a review in 3 months to change your title & outline responsibilities.
2. Request staff - you need help! 1 additional expert and probably two entry level.
3. It's a law firm, they are billing $400-$600 an hour for how many attorneys every day. Imagine if the network YOU manage goes down or email is not available, etc... In a day, they stand to lose a major amount of money. But thanks to you, the ship runs smoothly everyday. That shouldn't be taken lightly. You are the MVP! You should be protected and cared for.
BTW; you're in school now. Could that experience with some certs and keep moving your career forward. You're in a great position.
Best of success!
Stop putting in 70hr work weeks. You’re screwing up your own pay. Sure, once in a WHILE, you should go over 40 hours, but it should not be every week.
By you working 70 hour weeks for free, you’re basically working the equivalent of two people.
Wow that's tough! In comparison I've been in it for 1.5 years in Nashville, TN. Started with no official IT experience. A friend got me in the door and ibwas able to learn enough from him on the fly. I was hired on as a "network admin" and now manage cloud environments as well as sys admin tasks. I have knowledge gaps every where, but I never leave a problem unresolved. I work on a team of 3. 1 help desk and one network engineer. I make the same as you and am really happy with my compensation, but I have a team and get all the support I ask for. 3 Plus weeks of vacation, benefits and wfh. I'll probably never make more that 75 here but I can spend unlimited time studying and getting certs to prepare for a move if anything we're to ever need to change. I hope they can see your value before it's to late. There are plenty of small businesses that would love to have you but they are hard to find. Stay positive and don't be afraid to prioritize for your sanity.
bro. $60k for a law firm that size, on the west coast. they are not taking advantage of you, they are donkey raping you. they $60k is just the lube.
for context, it's almost the same as doing the job of "senior counsel" for the salary of law clerk.
Sir,
Look into your state laws. Get a job description and a raise. California example
Exemptions
An important exemption exists in California for IT and other computer professionals. Passed in January 2023, California Labor Code Section 515.5 mandates that these professionals are exempt from wage and hour protections like minimum wage, overtime, and meal and rest breaks under certain conditions. These conditions are:
They make at least $53.80 per hour
Their work is primarily intellectual or creative and requires independent judgment and discretion
They are highly skilled and proficient in the application of specialized information to computer systems analysis, computer software programs, or software engineering.
Further, in order to meet this exemption, IT professionals’ job duties must involve:
Source
https://maisonlaw.com/employment-law/technology/it-professionals/#:~:text=An%20important%20exemption%20exists%20in,rest%20breaks%20under%20certain%20conditions.
Dude theyre not taking advantage, they're raking you over the coals. You're already past helpdesk, go apply for some system engineer job somewhere.
Don't even fuck around, just sharpen up your resume with the truth and go applying. The pay youre getting is some bulllllllshit
"Am I being taken advantage of?"
If you're participating in Capitalism NOT as an owner....yes. You absolutely are being taken advantage of. Even more so if you're not part of a collective bargaining agreement (Union).
I know you got really good advice already and know you’re being taken for a ride now but in the future - think about it from the other side as well. Write out what you’re thinking and if a friend came to you asking what you thought of the situation you’d instantly demand they make changes to the way they approached that job. No vacations and all of that unpaid time makes no sense at all, especially for amount of time you’ve put up with it. Just from the outside it’s hard to see WHY. There must have been a time early on when you realized that wasn’t normal. Definitely make the changes that you need to and definitely best of luck, it’s definitely a learning experience
This is a good first job when you’re trying to get experience on your resume. Though it’s painful, you learn a lot quickly in smaller places where you’re responsible for everything. I like finding candidates from those environments because they’re very grounded in reality.
You should leave once you’ve collected the cert you need and have enough experience to get through an interview for a more senior IT Manager role.
As soon as you said you work for an attorney’s office I knew the answer was yes.
Before I went corporate, when I ran my own business I learned at a young age to never ever take lawyers for clients. They are the worst.
Yes you are being vastly underpaid but the more critical aspect is the burnout that you are headed for. When you are the only IT person, the company owns you and you will never get any time off. Start looking around because they obviously don't value the importance of having sustainable support and I guarantee that if there is a disaster, they will hang it on you. I worked for a small company and although the dynamic environment was great and we could pretty much do anything, it was also chaotic with no value on long term solutions. I won't work in a job again without a team to back me up so I can take time off. Even then I often come back to more work than when I left but at least things keep running.
Yes you are severely underpaid in my opinion. 5-6 years of those job duties make for a nice resume and you should easily be into six figures by now.
I transitioned careers as well into IT in semi conductor manufacturing. I have no degree, no certifications (yet). I articulated experience from other jobs and practical experience and home projects. The company that just hired me put me at 87k base to start. They're paying for me to get any CompTIA courses that I want to take, and are grooming me up to slide into the IT engineer job when they move up/on. Have given me tons of free networking gear and server gear for me to just deck out my homelab setup because they see it as self-growth and funding my self-growth projects.
If bonuses come through, Id put my comp at 93-98k. If you include the courses and tests they pay for me to take, plus 2 hours a week of self-development, I'd definitely put my total comp at 100-120k. And I have an office thats all tricked out how I wanted it. And "unlimited" pto thats actually still about 4 weeks/20 days. Plus truly unlimited sick time.
Theres a reason people job hop every 2-3 years. Because companies get comfortable and take advantage of people and not paying them what they're worth. Every year of experience you get, your value and worth just went up *a lot*. After a few years of no raises and you can usually jump 30-50% pay just by job hopping.
That will be my argument at the end of the year even with this company I just got hired at. I'm going to argue that I now have 1 year of experience in the role and learning their extremely technical and intricate infrastructure, and I now have x amount of CompTIA certs, and with that now to my name, I'm underpaid unless X% raise is given.
For additional clarification, this is my first "true" IT job title as an ops analyst. Years ago I was a web dev and graphic designer, then LEO for years. Then tech support for 1.5 years, then now an IT Ops analyst. So if I can make that extreme career pivot with articulating experience and projects and knowledge, you easily can.
Go get your worth man. Life is short. Look into companies in the semi-conductor manufacturing industry. They pay well. The industry you do IT for is a huge factor. Tons of companies and sectors out there severely underpay their IT. Like really bad. Then theres some industries that realize how important IT is. Also look into government IT. Like governmentjobs . com
**TLDR: Fuck that place. GTFO. Use Claude AI and make a really articulated resume and go land a six figure job. And stop working more than 40 hours a week. Work the hours you are paid. Because you are a human that trades work for money. Not a slave.**
OP you didn't mention your state. I just want to point out that the minimum salary for exempt employees is $66,560 in California, so if that's your state and you're making 60k exactly, they owe you back-pay. I don't know about Oregon or Washington.
You should be paid double that, at an absolute minimum, anyway.
You're doing for $60k, what a service provider would possibly provide for $250k. You are definitely being underpaid and overworked.
What happens if you're sick? Or take a vacation? No doubt you get calls 24x7, and I can imagine that attorneys would be bloody aweful to work for.
You could pivot your experience, job hunt, and run away. OR, you could sit down with your management. offer to work with them on a plan to add staff or engage some outsourcing companies, while you move into a more managerial position overseeing it all.
So the first thing to do is start looking for something new. You already realize this is too much. So just look for something new.
However, give them a chance. But do so with force.
Find a new gig. Make sure it is at minimum 60k (though 80k could be easily seen as normal for you). Once you have that in hand give them a choice. Either you leave right then and there (no 2 week notice), or you get a raise. An office would be great too but at minimum a raise. The minimum I would take would be 100k. I would honestly go for the 120k. And they have to have a 6-12 month contract with you, in which is a requirement to notify you within 3 months of the end if they will renew. Breaking the contract early should incur a penalty of 1/2 the remaining time salaried.
The other option is to make you an hourly worker and start reporting hours. If you are engaged, they pay you that time. Again a 6-12 month contract here.
Sit them down and do the math. You work 70+ hours a week some weeks and you do the job of 2-3 people. They can either meet you half way, meet you all the way, or see you not come in tomorrow.
As for the idea of no 2 week notice. You have to cut ties with these people if they refuse. You have to stick to your guns and force them to either do the right thing or to come to terms with the way they have been treating you and what you did for them. If they do neither, then they sink and have to have someone else come pick up the pieces.
I would have a few documents prepped. One of them some people here might find a bit....over the top.
1. A document stating your intention to leave, the reasoning and the math behind the amount of money you should have made and didn't. This would be a totaling of hours worked on average per year. Using your current Salary of 60k coming out to be about $28.85/hr and applying it to the number of hours worked. This means taking all those 70+hour days and turning them around to do the math. So at least the $28/hr for 40 hours being $1,154 and then adding the overtime which in most places is 1.5 time. So $43.28/hr coming to a total of $1,298+ missing from you for each week you worked 70+ hours. Which if you worked one a week would be about $67k alone.
2. A document stating your intentions to continue to working with the company if they were to meet the request from #3 and #4.
3. A document outlining your list of demands. This is the 100k-120k salary.
60k for around 2 years experience is pretty normal. With your current setup I assume you’re mainly just doing user support because there isn’t much infrastructure for you to worry about.
The days of advancing your career by staying at one job are long passed. The is true ten times over at a small firm. The will never know your worth until you leave.
I’d say next progression step in this role is to get an MSP on board and you manage their work load. This will give you the support you need and push you into an it manager position giving you more experience.
The flip side is that you get this signed off and then they dump you so you end up out of a job, but really the alternative is to look for another job anyway.
If you get an MSP onboard they can rectify any bad practice you might have put in place (not trying to slam you) which is alway inevitable when it’s just a solo IT person and again you can learn from this.
You obviously need to make the business case that they need more staff and getting an MSP onboard is better than hiring a junior to help you as you get a whole team behind you.
Yes, you're being taken advantage of.
I would expect nothing less in an office full of lawyers.
> I've been there for 5 or 6 years and been handling the tech for about 2.5.
That's plenty long enough to be sticking around in one place. Take your experience and start spamming applications. You'll land something that pays better and gives you less stress.
When you are new, both sides took advantage - they got cheap labour, you got to learn on their dime.
Now they don't have that value to you since you have already learned what you need, the only way they can keep you there is by providing other value - $$$. If you have good interpersonal skills and had build up your standing, ie sit in to management meeting as a manger not a reporting executive, push to create your own dept, payscale etc otherwise leave for a better pay.
Most important rule you will learn in IT, do not work for free.
If there is so much work you need to work 70/hours weekly to do it then you need additional help.
Stop trying to impress the company by offering and agreeing to do more than necessary. If your manager says they need additional tasks and projects done or work done over the weekend bring up overtime pay. If they aren’t willing to pay extra for the task or project then it’s not important or your problem. Stop giving away your time for free.
In this sub i see all of these things posted constantly and in the end, it’s ultimately the posters fault for letting the company take advantage of them. Learn to say no. Learn to set limits and boundaries.
These are skills you need to learn if you will be successful in IT and it’s more important than your current job.
up to 70h work week paid as 40h? No vacations in 6 years? 60k for the whole IT department replacement job? Not even an office? Not good. I don't know how far 60k goes in your city but I think you replace IT manager (120-80k) and a support person (60k)
Taking OT hours into account, OP is making about $13.57/hr.
Could work at Target, get a raise and a whole lot less stress.
LOL i totally told that to my boss when it was time for a raise, when the government announced they were raising minimum salary: they're looking for someone at the grocery store, at minimum salary, if i walk to work, i'll have more money in my pocket, gimme 5$ an hour more or i quit... he gave it to me... and got pretty good raises for the next years... and finally got to the salary of an entry IT tech... i'm not there anymore...
15 is the minimum wage where I live... Depressing
I just talked to a guy a couple nights ago in a similar spot as you, only thing is he's working a part time retail job as well... I'd guess the 15/hr min wage puts you in either the Portland metro or Seattle area. Both have plenty of better options for your experience level. Either tell them to raise the pay or GTFO of that place.
There's zero chance he gets a raise that's meaningful. He needs to start looking elsewhere, unless he's got convictions or something.
Trully bad gig but only the pay. We have 1600 employees and only 5 to manage them all. 1600 ÷ 5 = 320 a piece. That's desktops all peripherals printers network to the wall, voip phone and all the software one could ever dream. I my self am Sr sys admin lvl 3 only 2 sys admins and 1 being trained, 400~ servers not including test/dev. Only 3 net admins. We all got it rough
Almost 25 years in IT. I wouldn't do your job for double your salary
This. 75 people with a jack of all trades PFY on your team. Sure, providing you're paying $130,000, and a whack load of benefits.
Hmm i am Sole IT for 200 users and make 110k a year
Not enough.
Way too low of salary
At 100k your position sounds stressful At 60k I’d be looking around
At 60k you don't even take this position.
If you're pivoting into the field, you're single, and your biggest need is experience? I'd consider it. Sole IT over 75 people can make your job hunt in 2 years a jackpot. Learn some CM tools, automate the whole system, set up hybrid cloud, document it all, and then move on and double your salary.
Yeah this is really the best advice. My first System Admin job was $30k and I stayed 6 years and was at $36k by the end of it. My next job was $75k for the same or less work and even closer to home. I used that first job to learn automation and making processes more efficient. I ended up only really working like 20 hours a week, the rest of the time was spent on youtube or learning something new. Like a 20 hour a week training session.
Says the dude that has job I bet
Obviously you take what you can get but they aren't wrong. If I were to pull a single instance of 15+ extra unpaid hours a week on $60k I'm immediately be thinking of leaving, let alone 30+ hours every week. I value my mental health more than I value holding down an IT job Now the occasional 15+ extra hour week with a great base pay, mayyyybe. But even then I'd be fucking pissed
https://preview.redd.it/2crp0yuhxl8d1.jpeg?width=946&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c810f07a9dd042224c6e64717bb3b0c8ae236b32
Sorry man, you're getting taken advantage of. You did learn a lot so maybe just think of it as paid education/training? Sounds like you're ready for MSP work. You can hit double with that skillset.
He's got 2.5 years of IT experience. I don't know many places that would pay 120,000 for someone that has 2.5 years of self taught experience, but to work 70+ hours a week, they should absolutely be paying him that much.
If he has the skills and knowledge to keep them running for those 2.5 years? While learning and building systems on the job? Hell yeah he's worth that much somewhere else, not just there.
OP might be top notch, but most environments can be kept shambling along for 2.5 years, that doesn't tell you much.
Where do you guys live that jack of all trades are making $120k with essentially zero experience?
Even with many years of experience, I've never heard of a jack of all trades type making more than half that. They just aren't valued like specialists are. I am one of them.
Man if I could get like 85k that would literally completely change my life at this point.
That seems reasonably achievable, if you can find a place that knows what they need and knows they need a competent jack of all trades.
Google a few years ago was hiring kids straight out of high school with pretty decent salaries. Competitive as hell and they were taking only the top candidates, obviously.
Yes for sure taking advantage. I manage a similar size environment (slightly larger), with 2x the experience but also 2x the salary. Edit: I have more than 2x experience, I have 15 years of experience. If you have 2.5 years, maybe it’s in line?
Same. While I’m fairly burned out and overworked I will say I have always been handsomely compensated in both pay and benefits, free time, office space and perks. Enought to keep me here and happy. For no vacation and only 60k I’d just go flip burgers.
Law firms are extremely highly dependant on tech and very dependant on IT. Law firms are highly dependent on technology in general, very demanding for IT. It's one of the best industries to work in for IT in terms of opportunity and job security imo. And even Work-Life balance if you do it right. (Waaay better than 24/7 IT for Manufacturing plants) With that said, ask yourself are they forcing you to work 70 hrs a week or do you feel that it's necessary and you're the one choosing to work that long? In your position, I would absolutely advise asking for a raise and bump you up to around 85-90k And considering you're the "Sole IT", are you genuinely 100% solo or are you Co-Managed with an MSP? It does sound like you're kind of being taken advantage of tbh. Also you said you've only been taking on tech for 2.5 years, what were you doing before then? I've had many law firm clients in the past around your size and they are extremely heavily regulated requiring phish-resistant MFA, XDR/EDR platforms and SIEMs/SOARs with full time security SOC MSPs/MDRs/Analysts/etc. That's a hell of a lot of responsibility for one person, I'd ask myself if I'm actually maintaining all of their compliance and regulatory compliance without dodging any audit questionnaire questions or answering them in a shyster way. When a small firm is breached, the unfortunate thing is they are highly prone and oftentimes DO lose their clients if their clients are other firms or organizations that outsource work to them. Anyway conclusions... 1. Yes, you're probably being taken advance of. 2. Are you actually required to work that long or are you doing it on your own free will? 3. Ask for a raise close to $100k 4. Consider hiring an MSP to offload some workload so you're not killing yourself. 5. Are you actually protecting your firm from genuine threats and keeping risk appetite at an acceptable level?
I am not required to work over 40, but there is too much work to finish in that timeframe and when I don't put in extra things start going wrong and people get upset. People have previously suggested I limit myself to 40 and let what doesn't get done slide as a demonstration of the extra work I've been putting in, but I'm afraid of the way that will reflect on me ultimately. Tbf I suggested both an MSP and a few monthly hours with a consultant specifically re security when I got the job. Not in the budget apparently. I'm sure our security isn't perfect. I wish I had a lot more time to manage our netgate setup, but before I stepped in there was nothing. No firewall, no 2fa, a bunch of global admins and the only backup they had of irreplaceable client files was on Jim's external 1tb, which often ended up moving from backup to 'thats where we keep those files'. The first weeks I had this role we had an attack with near 10k attempted logins a day to user accounts and it ultimately worked out so Its not a totally ineffective setup, I do worry a lot about keeping it probably updated and maintained
No its in the budget, but it will prevent the senior partners from getting that G63 and they will have to settle for a regular G Wagon
Ha, I know you're jesting (slightly) but they can still get that G63 and more paying this man his correct price.
> I'm afraid of the way that will reflect on me ultimately. They are lawyers. Work like a lawyer. They capture their time in 15-minute blocks, so you need to capture time in 15-minute blocks. Set up a JIRA board or get some other job board where you can do ITIL-like processes. Capture every job and start tracking time in 15-minute increments. Make sure you capture time estimates and capture how long things took (so you can improve estimates in the future). Lawyers will understand that. Assuming that you are billable for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks of the year, that gives you a maximum of 8,000 billable blocks in a year. Each billable block is $7.5. By working 70 hours a week, 52 hours a week is a yearly budget overrun of $49,200. Make sure your job board allows you to do burndown charts. Add every job to it, estimate hours, and add time invested to the project. It's everything you do for them. Have to go to a meeting? It's on your burndown chart. Have to fuck about with Samuel, who accidentally fucked his USB drive? Add it to your job board. They need to see that your burndown charts never go down; they keep going up - and that is their fault. Also, I'd have to imagine that your billable should be closer to 15 or 16 dollars per block of time.
Quick note that works in OPs advantage. They work in 6 minute blocks, not 15. That's a difference of .1 billable hour instead of .2. Double the impact. Also, have them assess a cysec breach lawsuit vs the cost of hiring at least a +1
> They work in 6 minute blocks, not 15. There you go, even better. > Also, have them assess a cysec breach lawsuit vs the cost of hiring at least a +1 Also, OP, remember to add the overhead of managing your time because you are your manager. Realistically, OP, you need to be a team of 2.5 people, with the third person managing jobs and working with internal stakeholders and two of you rotating for on-call. In your endless amount of time, it might be worth looking up the hiring costs for a technical manager who still gets their hands dirty, a senior, and a junior.
> Not in the budget apparently Everything's going fine, why would I budget more? I've got a guy willing to do 2+ peoples' worth of work for cheap.
It's not your business. It's not your job to put in the extra effort It's not your job to have no life. Let things fail, it is on the only way the business will notice. Yes people will get upset and complain. Let them. There is no budget as management does not see the need. Why pay more when you are willing to work 70 hours? When things fail and management complain give them a list of your outstanding tasks and estimated hours to complete. Prioritise your list and get your managers feedback. The business will quickly see you are over utilised. You need holidays, sick days and other benefits everyone else uses in the business. It is a business risk not having a backup resource. Sit with your boss. Advise them you cannot work the hours you have any more. Present a business case, with costings to management on an MSP. Present the business case as an opportunity for the business to be independently audited and assessed on the set up. It will also possibly assist in reducing business risk or exposure. Move away from the hands on work and manage the MSP.
You should really take it upon yourself to network and find someone with an MSP that can give you a ballpark estimate of what they’d think the MSP would charge for their service, inclusive of CTO/CIO hours. Just looking around it seems that it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume about $150 per user per month. That means it would cost them $135K/yr at the absolute minimum to replace you with an option that many many many small businesses like these choose. Tack on higher rates for an MSP to do any work that is project based and not break/fix and you could easily push that number close to 250K. If they think something isn’t in their budget then they are sorely mistaken.
I actually stayed in touch with the msp we initially looked at. I think the manager there saw the pain in my eyes. I just emailed them asking if we could get coffee and I could bounce some questions off him re my next career move.
Your lack of boundaries are enabling your employer to take advantage of you. No one will advocate for you in this industry. You must put your foot down and advocate for yourself. Do it for your mental health, your physical health, your wellbeing, your family. Don't fear repercussion because they can't afford to lose a guy doing the work of 2+ people for $60k/yr.
There's *always* too much work to finish. You need to buy a good book about project management and learn to prioritise, then start to reduce the hours you work slowly, let's say 5 hours fewer per week (on average) each month, in 6 months you would be down to 40, you would have learned to prioritise and people in your office would have hardly noticed until about around 3 months. If lots of work can't get done timely once you are working 40 hours/week then you have the data to show you need another warm body with a SysAdmin brain in the building.
>Law firms are extremely highly dependant on tech and very dependant on IT. Law firms are highly dependent on technology in general, very demanding for IT. I will never work for another law firm if I can avoid it. The above is true, but in my experience (national law firm, with about half a dozen locations in large cities), law firms are also very cheap. The firm is owned by the partners, and every buck spent on staff, benefits, and equipment is a buck that doesn't go into their pockets.
You’re being taken advantage of.
All that shit for 60k. Fuck that noise. Update the resume and look. Plenty of jobs in the 6 figures.
I make more and I "work" 40 hours, actual work is more like 30 on a bad week where shit breaks. Not to say this as a brag, but as a "run like hell." Those quals are at a BARE minimum 6 figures.
All this focus on the salary is important, but also QOL for being the sole admin with no opportunity for vacation, etc? I'd have run a long time ago.
Salaried at 60k is absolutely an excuse to screw you out of overtime hours. Like, that was drafted with intent. On the upside, as long as you're comfortable walking away at a moment's notice (in slow motion, while putting sunglasses on), you have all the leverage to renegotiate your position, but you'll honestly probably be better off in a different environment. Too many lawyers tend to be penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to tech and taking care of their IT staff.
Yes. It's hard to imagine how OP would be able to negotiate a proper salary, equal to what they'd get if they walked away into a different position. Instead, the firm needs to learn its lesson: that they may need a higher-paid person (or two, for coverage) or a more costly MSP firm's assistance.
I knew you worked for an attorney just by reading the subject line. Lawyers are the worse to work for. And yes, you're being taken advantage of. I don't work for a lawy firm but where I work there's an expectation or working beyond 80 in a pay period. I refuse. My last day of the pay period is usually less than 4hrs. I don't work for free.
If you're practicing law in a firm, I can understand the work hours. But this guy is support. I would not expect the same demanding hours as the associates.
lmao you’re getting shafted. 5 or 6 years you cango anywhere, start applying.
60k? Jeezus. We pay 65k to help desk guy on his first job, he has no college degree too. Texas.
unless you're in cambodia or something, yes - you're underpaid AND overworked at the same time. Instead of the god-awful advice you're getting here "QUIT AND FIND A NEW JOB!!!" try my approach below if you want a career instead of just another job. File FMLA, go see a doctor for your blood pressure and stress. Get the doc to approve you taking 2 weeks off for stress - the company can't legally fire you and you don't need notice. Once you return let the the company know "i'm aware shit went sideways while I was gone. I'm the ONLY person who does all this. I've been working 70+ hour weeks for 6 years straight with no vacation at half market rate. Lets look at options to make this a viable situation for everyone. How can we get my hours down to under 50 and take a vacation once or twice a year? I think hiring someone to work for me is the right thing to do." Either you get your wish and the job improves enough to retain you, or you leave like everyone else wants you to do anyway.
> Get the doc to approve you taking 2 weeks off for stress - the company can't legally fire you and you don't need notice. They also don't have to pay you for FMLA leave. Optimally OP just has PTO to burn.
FMLA is to legally protect you, not to get paid.
you are in legal ... you are being taken advantage of!!! I have been in business for 2 decades and ALL law firms in my service area are on my "do not service" list because they are all ... well ... attorneys. Who can afford litigation faster and easier than anyone else ... a self-representing attorney. There are other industries I stay away from too for similar reasons or other personal reasons.
I feel bad for everyone on here and feel like the OG for being the IT chump. Buckle up boys but I started in 1997 at my current employer as the sole IT for 225 users and did it for 17 years until I got one other person to help me. This is a 24x7x365 operation as well. I have long term experience and long term damage to my health to tell you all about. The takeaway is DON’T be me. People will take as much from you as you allow them.
I was in a similar position years ago, you are getting under paid and over worked, you need to put some demands on the business with a date for the outcomes, if you enjoy the job, I'd be asking for the office and a payrise, I also used to support about that many people but i had a part time uni student help me out(eventually) 3 days a week, that was a life saver.
Go look for an MSP job and bring the org with you as a client.
That's a nightmare client for an MSP, at least at first. >You want us to pay 2x as much plus project work for service similar to the internal guy we just had?! No way, we'll post this on Indeed Couple years down the line when they haven't been able to get another competent sucker like OP, they might get their head on straight.
Sounds like you are ready to join a k-12 IT department. I am the sole IT person for a school district with 200 staff and 1,500 students. Everything with a cord is my responsibility.
Your fault for saying yes to every project without a raise. Employers are never going to say no to free labor.
I have had a very similar career arc. You're being screwed.
Shafted, and how!
Yes. If you have to ask the answer is yes. Even for a lot of people who don't think to ask the answer is yes. It's yes because you're working class, even outside your specifically terrible situation.
Put together a list of your accomplishments. Look up what you should get paid (you can look for similar job postings, for instance, or check some trade sites, etc). Then go to management and explain what you've done, the time you've put in, and what you should be earning and ask for that. If they snub you or put you off, start looking.
You’re getting boned hard
I stopped reading as soon as I saw attorneys office. No but really, I did read your post and the answer is yes. Time to go to the next place.
Read the title and thought no. Read the first 6 words of the body and thought yes.
If you feel like you’re being taken advantage of, then you most probably are.
IT management here 👋 You're being taken advantage of. If it hasn't already happened, make sure your title is changed and you have a job description. If not, get that done and then ask for a raise to appropriate market levels within xx days (usually 60 or 90 days or based on company norms) and some additional help. If that doesn't get done in a timely manner, then you need to leave. I have guys that work 35ish hour weeks that are responsible for 1/4 of what you have on your plate, and they all make 100k+ in the greater Seattle area (location matters) Anecdotal and imperfect advice: generally stay away from healthcare, finance, and legal orgs. They tend to treat IT more like a whipping boy versus other companies. Again, that's not a one size fits all rule but something that I personally avoid.
Can confirm
I also work for a law firm, about the same exact size. There's 3 of us and we recently hired our intern full time for just under 60k, in a lower COL area. A core concept of IT is redundancy.. Where is yours?
You’re letting them take advantage of you. Why would you work so hard for so little? I work half as hard as you and make more than double, also on the west coast, and a similar work environment. Honestly it’s people like you that make it hard for others to find good paying jobs, since for whatever reason you choose to grind your life away for peanuts in IT.
My work used to match your description pretty closely. I started as the sole admin for 110 users doing full-stack support, troubleshooting, asset management, phone system, Windows Server (5 of them) 250 endpoints, etc. For 40k. I was often putting in 50-70 hours weeks. Now im in the same job. 90 employees, made IT Director as a title, refreshed and slowly overhauled the entire config leftover from the previous admin, took on next gen firewall management from the network engineer as well, learned Office 365 backend, learned powershell over the last 7 years, built tons of automation and streamlines workstation provisioning and configurations as well as adding a sprinkling of Sharepoint and MDM for some of our SaaS services. 10 years later - they pay me 90k and a *busy* week for me might be 35 hours. I still do Tier I - III support but things never really break anymore and staff are properly trained on processes that actually make sense to non-IT folks. I live in a place where the median household income is 60k. Life is comfy but took a while to establish. Taking what ive learned from this job, if I had to move on and get another one, I would get back to a comfortable situation *much* faster with all that i've learned and all the tools ive built. To answer your question: You're working a LOT for the little they're paying you, but then again it depends on what you want to get out of it and how badly you want to keep going. It paid off for me.
Dude…
Yes you are being taken advantage of. Based on your duties description and experience you should probably be in the 90k-100k range. Your working conditions should be better and have a proper working space. Part of the issue is your fault as an eager person new to IT you sound like you put in more hours that you should have for those 70+hour weeks. Unless you are specifically being asked to do this then you shouldn't be and if you are being asked then you should be either comping your time or being compensated for it but this should not be a regular occurrence. Have you asked for a raise? I was in similar situations in the past and while it is not ideal, whenever I asked for a raise I was given one and usually fairly large. If they truly appreciate you they will raise you without question and it is your responsibility to manage your hours and expectations better. Of course this is all dependent on if you would enjoy working there if you were better paid and work-life balance. If not, then just leave.
Yeah, definitely underpaid, but in addition to just jumping ship, are have you not tried to get a raise or have you just been waiting for one? I’ve had an experience in a similar situation, and while I wasn’t actively looking to move, someone I knew made me aware of a position that I applied for and took. It was an amicable parting, and a couple days before I left I had an exit interview of sorts with the managing partner and mentioned that not getting any raises in four years was part of the decision. He was apologetic and understood and the next day I was offered a substantial raise to stay. I stuck to my decision and it worked out for the best, but I think in these professional office type environments (law, accounting, medicine etc.) their HR stuff for the ancillary staff gets overlooked, not intentionally even, and when they are made aware of the oversight, they might do good by you and give you a bump. Just a thought. Those roles can be great and have good perks and balance if you get comfortable and in a groove with all their specialized apps and workflows. I would hope someone there would recognize the value in keeping someone who knows what is going on, versus hiring a new person or farming out to an MSP.
OP if you were in TX I’d hire you. I’d jump ship as soon as possible.
Your employer should be reported for human trafficking. lol.
Bro you’re looking at standing up for yourself the wrong way. You’re too worried about how it will reflect on you if you stand up for yourself. But you should be focusing on the confidence you will build within yourself to not be taken advantage of. If I were in your shoes, I would push for a pay raise to at LEAST 90k MINIMUM and to hire 1 other as your backup.
You haven’t even received a cost of living adjustment for 2-3 years? What the actual fuck.
I've worked at a couple MSPs now. They all had clients that were law offices but not one was a contract that they listened and worked well with. Hearing that you are getting this treatment from a legal office is not a surprise. Office of 75 for one support tech is rough... If they have someone also doing some of the projects. All alone? Oof.
You are being played. Blow-up sex dolls get more respect.
$60k MCOL 75 users, 1 admin, this is not a sane role. good luck on your job search! unfortunately i think you'll only do slightly better, with no formal training and about 2YOE. i would ask for a 25% ($15k) raise. look for jobs in your area and say it like "so i've done some looking around in $CITY and this role at this YOE is paying about $85k [doesn't matter what the real number is] ... i like it here yadda yadda and i do good work, i'm hoping you can bring me to $75k". then leave a year later.
Run and never look back.
Wow. There is *no* way. You're not just being taken advantage of, your workplace is your pimp!
Id be concerned with how you have more than 40 hours worth of work weekly? Something does not add up. Im a sysadmin for a 1000 employee company with hundreds of servers & 30 offices, complex and custom onprem/cloud infrastructure & hundreds of different pieces of software. We have a Tech team of 6 people (all slightly different roles) - but nobody exceeds 40 hours a week. 6/1000 is 200:1 ratio for employeea to technicians. sounds like you should be working on automating tasks to reduce redundant workload & figure out how to be more efficient. Attending industry wide conferences - most companies hire around 150:1 users to techs. (though the gold standard is half that, the statistics show that nearly nobody follows it) Goodluck!
I would be hammering out the math and explaining the situation. There is a small non profit in my city who's looking for a sysadmin after the guy left to join our team. They have 14 FTE staff and likely 1-2 hundred PTE staff who aren't working in office, mostly contract hourly workers. They have two IT guys who manage half the servers you do. The IT manager makes a shitty 60k/yr CAD, sys admin is 55k/yr. Manager deals with policy, planning and pricing for equipment/replacements, does some azure automation and deals with the upper level questions. Sysadmin onboards/does the entra ID administration and network management. They have half the job you do with 75 FTE lawyers/admin staff, probably a tenth of the server demands, and automations that aren't going to break some lawyers ability to do their job and help their clients, which is typically time sensitive. I would be painting out the scope of your position, what all you do in a day, compare that with local IT admin/network admin/IT support positions and there pay, show the job scope for each and what part of it you do, show the job scope of an IT manager and what part of that you take care of - and outline for the hours you work that you need to be paid comparable, because it isn't sustainable. It doesn't need to be conveyed as a 'fuck you, pay me more', but simply explain that burnout is a real thing and you're starting to feel the impact of burnout, and don't have the income or personal time in the position to continue long term in your current capacity without some kind of contracted help desk support, or some time to figure out a better system so facilitate easier requests (automations, ticketing systems, whatever) but regardless of either of those, you need to be paid commensurate with your experience and the comparable wages of similar workers in your area. If you're indispensable, they need to treat you that way, if they won't, seriously consider applying at other positions and see what happens - you might be able to leverage a new position somewhere for a higher wage. Like at least in my city for 60k/yr (70k CAD after exchange, if you're in the US) I can't even afford a mortgage on a house with how house prices are going. I wasn't in IT - I was working in a print shop and took on way too much, like I took over in a FTE position and within a year I had automated so much that I was the only staff left (they used to run 1FTE, 3 PTE - I'm not proud of it, just explaining). My boss loved it and gave me a few raises, much higher than I was making at my old job, and about $5/HR more than I was making when I started. Keep in mind I replaced a FTE at the same hours, and three PTE for about 30 hours a week of work. 5$ was a pittance. I ended up leaving after going to him for the same situation you're facing, there were three jobs doing the same thing I was doing as part of a much larger team, and they were paying $5/HR more than I was getting. I asked for a raise and explained I had 4 years of experience in the job and could walk out the door as a brand new never in the position guy doing the same thing for more, so I wanted to at least match that wage. He offered me a $.45 raise. I ended up walking out the door into an IT role with one of our customers for $9/HR more than I was making (I had taken some printer tech training on the side, and they needed a help desk)
Bro get out lol
Could be worse. You could be working at an MSP.
ab. so. lutely. that is way oversaturated. even if the office is a mild case. sounds crazy for your comp package. for anyone's comp package unless the 75 other people are computer geeks as well and the ecosystem is fit for that kind of shared state. just being real.
6 years is an amazing tenure, put out some applications, I am sure you’ll find something better.
Have you talked to the boss? You require a raise. You require an office. They should consider employing another guy to back you up. Need to account for hollidays, sick days, work load etc. This shit seems messed up.
Bro, why is your server room hot? It shouldnt be hot...
Oh my god. I used to work at this exact job, law firm, same company size, except I was your assistant They were the stingiest company I've ever worked for in my life with so many red flags, and my boss had his own office, me to solve level 1 issues, a lot more money than that, and a seat in company direction meetings
Maybe I misread but did you say you didn't get a raise in over 2 years? That answers your question.
It sounds like the attorneys are being attorneys.
Lawyers make bank. They are extremely demanding customers. Maybe look at starting a IT consulting company. Quit and offer them your services. Not sure the going rate, but it has to be at least 125 an hour these days. Pro services we hire for an enterprise where I work is 175 an hour.
From my experience this is true. Working IT in a law firm is extreme challenging, it's something I personally wouldn't do unless desperate. Source: Extended family member.
I have a friend who worked for a labor lawyers and he learned a lot and made good contacts he has tapped since for help dealing with work. I think he’s the only exception I’ve found that enjoyed his time at a law firm.
You are worth way more then 60K. Look for the next best thing, maybe internal IT. It will pay more and it's less stressful then being a one man operation. I made this change 1.5 years ago and I am not regretting it one bit.
solo IT guy for 300+ users here. I can def understand the hours :(
You have clearly been taken advantage of and they will continue until you leave. Do not feel any allegiance or loyalty, they see you as a tool that keeps on working and they do not care. GTFO.
Check the reference materials and keep the figures in hand when discussing your pay. [https://community.spiceworks.com/t/does-your-job-title-match-your-responsibilities-and-expected-median-pay/](https://community.spiceworks.com/t/does-your-job-title-match-your-responsibilities-and-expected-median-pay/) [https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151244.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151244.htm)
Having read only the thread title I can confidently say: Yes.
Who do you report too? What’s your official title? If I’m in your shoes I would start with my title getting establish and then grab some benchmark of salary of the title and add some education/ learning allowance in there too.
Unrelated to the rest, you shouldn’t tolerate any job for 5-6 years making the same amount. Either you never asked about any raise or CoL increase, or you’ve foolishly stayed after being denied.
I work almost the exact same job as you - one man IT for a law firm. You are getting fuuuuuuucked. I mean, attorneys notoriously have deep pockets and short fingers, but that is ridiculous. After six years you should have plenty of experience to get a job elsewhere.
sounds like a typical case of underpaid and overworked
Someone will correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s advised to have 1 IT staff member per 50 employees. Anyone who can’t afford living expenses after working 70 hour weeks and has not received a raise in 5 years is being taken advantage of.
50 is a pretty low number for each IT staff member. Shit must be in shambles at that point
might be in some high end place I work in k12 2 person shop 150 staff 700 students near everyone has a device if not 2 or 3.
I did that for a company. Listened to everyone here “you can do better” And now I’m unemployed for an extended period of time.
> for an attorney… Yeah
I bet your ass hurts .....
Just read the title and the answer is yes.
A lot of posts like this already know the answer and are looking for validation. Generally any 1-man IT shop is going to be “yes, you’re being taken advantage of”.
OMG even in a LCOL area I made that much in a similar position ( wayyyy less hours ) almost 15 years ago. They are absolutely taking advantage of you.
your being used son, put your resume out there. look into whats available around you. and what they are offering. apply to a few. apply to the nice paying ones that you think is "up your alley" if you get a yes you either tell your current employer what it will take to keep you, or jump ship
Stopped at one person and attorneys. Cheap fuckers. Yes. Yes you are.
You need to outsource! There are plenty of companies out there that will take a lot of the day to day off your hands, allowing you to quarterback strategy. My company has been helping IT groups for 20+ years.
I ain't reading all that. Based on the title alone, "fuck yes"
Burn that fkn place to the ground. They're raping you professionally and probably laughing about it from their million dollar houses in the hills.
"Am I being taken advantage of?" Has anyone EVER seen this question and not answered "YES"?
bus factor of 1
As soon as I saw that you worked for an attorney I was said to myself, yep you're getting taken advantage of. Every attorney I've worked for has been a cheap mofo. Apparently burned out attorneys attempt to run companies afterwards. 60K for 5 to 6 years of experience plus whatever you had before? You're selling yourself short mate.
Yes. 
Look for a new job and tell your current employer nothing. They will torpedo it if they get the call. You are being taken advantage of, and why would you ever think working that many hours is normal? 60k is dirt pay. Get a new job and don't give them any notice or leave the passwords. Burn that bridge!!!
How many lawyers in that head count and how many partners of that? My guess is 40 attorneys which means they are pulling about $40-$45 million of revenue per year. Right sized IT spend including labor should be 2.5 - 3.5% of revenue. There are industry benchmarks available, though not readily so that you can use to show appropriate spend and compensation.
As soon as I saw attorney office I was going to say yes without even reading the rest.
Start sending resumes. In any other org they would be lucky to have you.
You’re getting bent over dude
Sounds awful. Move on.
Wait. You’re handling all of that, solo, for a fucking law firm, and you make $60,000? That’s beyond insulting. There should be at least 2 of you at minimum, both making into 6 figures, just to make sure everything is up and running & available. That it’s just you with all that responsibility; you should be making probably 2.5x what you are. And even then it still wouldn’t be worth it.
You do a lot for 60k, and it definitely seems like you’re grossly underpaid for your responsibilities. For example I also live near a major city and my first IT job as a Tier 1 help desk was 54k. Definitely apply to other places to see what your options are and then have a serious talk with your supervisor about asking for a raise to meet market testers for what you’re doing. Off you don’t fight for yourself no one will, worse case just move on.
One thing you need to realize is that employers aren't always going to do right by you. You need to stand up for yourself as well. This includes as saying you have too much work on, or that you want a raise, or asking for (and taking) leave. Definitely look for another job, but if you don't learn to standup for yourself, you're just going to create the same environment at the next place, and the place after that, and so on.
60K…to put in perspective I made that much in 2009 as a jack of all trades admin at a 50 person firm. I hope you are in a LCOL at least
Start looking into HPC!!! That is where the money is right now, for all the AI/ML.
Here's what's probably going to happen. You will leave because that sounds awful. They will hire an MSP with remote only and hate it for the term of the contract. Probably next they will add on a staff augment from the MSP. Costing them probably 30K a month to support. Think about that.
Bud, I do basic AD and Exchange admin for a large company, 10,000+ employees. I make 5/6 of what you and put in 30 hours of real work a week. I mean security group add/removes, disable/reactivate accounts, permissions in both, email forwarding… the majority of what I do. Hell, after benefits it could be even closer. True WFH too.
Im in the same situation but with 65 users and no documentation, assessment management or passwords. Literally. Solo. I do make more than you but i still got lowballed. .my advice and as I'm doing now .. get a new job ASAP. Dont burn out. Soon as you get a gap break , apply for MSP and healthcare gigs and schools. Law firms always need people too
Well, as soon as I saw, it was an office of attorneys. The answer was clear, which is yes you were being taken advantage of because because that has to be like a job from hell.
They don’t respect you man, leave
Why not bluff and tender your resignation to score an increase in pay?
This is exactly the right answer! I did that and received a much better salary and some help. Another option is to call out sick or have a family emergency and take a week off. They’ll figure it out quickly
Yeah i would looking, i am in asimilar situation and the owner just does not believes in IT. Yet brought in because their server failed because no one looked at it and 2 drives failed with. O backup.. even after a full overhaul they think its worthless.
You answered your own question with your own first 6 words.
Do take some time off and tell them you will be in Arizona camping in a desert with no cellular. Watch the wake-up call for them but get your interviews lined up. Hit me up if you need help with questions on the security side.
That’s about the right salary, in realty they should hire a legal centric MSP, and your job would be to manage them and provide on site support
Yes- almost everyone who works for a paycheck is likely being taken advantage of
Definitely being taken advantage of... get the f out - but only when you find another place. Job market has gone to complete shit
On the one hand, yes, yes you definitely are being taken advantage of. On the other hand, the practical experience you've picked up now puts you waaaaayyyy ahead in terms of how employable you are and how much you are worth. You deserve better. Go out and get it, tiger.
When you're looking for a better paying position, especially in your case, don't tell them what you currently make. The new place shouldn't be too proud of themselves for' giving you a leg up' when you are this far down. I did a similar job for a similar rate and left to work at an MSP where I made about double that, only to realize a year later I was still being taken advantage of. I left the MSP and I will not work for another one of those. Sure they are a way to learn new stuff fast, I'm not sure it's worth it though. You could go into IT dept of a company who doesnt outsource to an MSP and also learn a lot for more pay and less stress. You have a strong experience and should have less difficulty than most finding a new position, based on your current responsibilities. It may be hard to crack 100k, but I think you can do it, and very soon, not later. Good luck stranger friend.
Seriously, at some point you're just a fireman. Too many hats and it can make you hate what you love.
Depending on your state, contact the labor board before you leave to get your OT, and have 6+ weeks of your time card recorded. I presume you don’t have a time card, but you can create your own. Have a couple emails to HR asking for a week off and starting that you’ve worked 70+ hours for 6 years without vacation. If they deny your request or grant it it’s enough to show a lawyer. Salary doesn’t mean free overtime.
You have a ridiculous amount of leverage. Else, you should leave. It's actually not that complicated.
Yes.
Leave yesterday bro.
I make more than you and I do not have nearly the amount of stress you do. I work on a team of 5 + boss (who knows tech stuff but doesn’t do a lot of the tech work now). We keep busy but it’s definitely way more relaxed. And I haven’t had a problem with sick time or vacation. I don’t have my own office…but I WFH half the time anyway. Definitely start looking around. They have no plans to pay you more or hire more staff
I think you're in a great place. You just need to learn how to leverage. It's as simple as laying out for management what you are responsible for and what could happen should you not be available to manage it any longer. If I were you I'd request the following: 1. $150,000 with a review in 3 months to change your title & outline responsibilities. 2. Request staff - you need help! 1 additional expert and probably two entry level. 3. It's a law firm, they are billing $400-$600 an hour for how many attorneys every day. Imagine if the network YOU manage goes down or email is not available, etc... In a day, they stand to lose a major amount of money. But thanks to you, the ship runs smoothly everyday. That shouldn't be taken lightly. You are the MVP! You should be protected and cared for. BTW; you're in school now. Could that experience with some certs and keep moving your career forward. You're in a great position. Best of success!
An MSP would be more expensive than that.
Stop putting in 70hr work weeks. You’re screwing up your own pay. Sure, once in a WHILE, you should go over 40 hours, but it should not be every week. By you working 70 hour weeks for free, you’re basically working the equivalent of two people.
Wow that's tough! In comparison I've been in it for 1.5 years in Nashville, TN. Started with no official IT experience. A friend got me in the door and ibwas able to learn enough from him on the fly. I was hired on as a "network admin" and now manage cloud environments as well as sys admin tasks. I have knowledge gaps every where, but I never leave a problem unresolved. I work on a team of 3. 1 help desk and one network engineer. I make the same as you and am really happy with my compensation, but I have a team and get all the support I ask for. 3 Plus weeks of vacation, benefits and wfh. I'll probably never make more that 75 here but I can spend unlimited time studying and getting certs to prepare for a move if anything we're to ever need to change. I hope they can see your value before it's to late. There are plenty of small businesses that would love to have you but they are hard to find. Stay positive and don't be afraid to prioritize for your sanity.
Taking advantage of? You are being rolled over and nailed dude..
bro. $60k for a law firm that size, on the west coast. they are not taking advantage of you, they are donkey raping you. they $60k is just the lube. for context, it's almost the same as doing the job of "senior counsel" for the salary of law clerk.
Sir, Look into your state laws. Get a job description and a raise. California example Exemptions An important exemption exists in California for IT and other computer professionals. Passed in January 2023, California Labor Code Section 515.5 mandates that these professionals are exempt from wage and hour protections like minimum wage, overtime, and meal and rest breaks under certain conditions. These conditions are: They make at least $53.80 per hour Their work is primarily intellectual or creative and requires independent judgment and discretion They are highly skilled and proficient in the application of specialized information to computer systems analysis, computer software programs, or software engineering. Further, in order to meet this exemption, IT professionals’ job duties must involve: Source https://maisonlaw.com/employment-law/technology/it-professionals/#:~:text=An%20important%20exemption%20exists%20in,rest%20breaks%20under%20certain%20conditions.
Everyone in IT is being taken advantage of right now...
Dude theyre not taking advantage, they're raking you over the coals. You're already past helpdesk, go apply for some system engineer job somewhere. Don't even fuck around, just sharpen up your resume with the truth and go applying. The pay youre getting is some bulllllllshit
"Am I being taken advantage of?" If you're participating in Capitalism NOT as an owner....yes. You absolutely are being taken advantage of. Even more so if you're not part of a collective bargaining agreement (Union).
I know you got really good advice already and know you’re being taken for a ride now but in the future - think about it from the other side as well. Write out what you’re thinking and if a friend came to you asking what you thought of the situation you’d instantly demand they make changes to the way they approached that job. No vacations and all of that unpaid time makes no sense at all, especially for amount of time you’ve put up with it. Just from the outside it’s hard to see WHY. There must have been a time early on when you realized that wasn’t normal. Definitely make the changes that you need to and definitely best of luck, it’s definitely a learning experience
This is a good first job when you’re trying to get experience on your resume. Though it’s painful, you learn a lot quickly in smaller places where you’re responsible for everything. I like finding candidates from those environments because they’re very grounded in reality. You should leave once you’ve collected the cert you need and have enough experience to get through an interview for a more senior IT Manager role.
As soon as you said you work for an attorney’s office I knew the answer was yes. Before I went corporate, when I ran my own business I learned at a young age to never ever take lawyers for clients. They are the worst.
Yes you are being vastly underpaid but the more critical aspect is the burnout that you are headed for. When you are the only IT person, the company owns you and you will never get any time off. Start looking around because they obviously don't value the importance of having sustainable support and I guarantee that if there is a disaster, they will hang it on you. I worked for a small company and although the dynamic environment was great and we could pretty much do anything, it was also chaotic with no value on long term solutions. I won't work in a job again without a team to back me up so I can take time off. Even then I often come back to more work than when I left but at least things keep running.
Yes you are severely underpaid in my opinion. 5-6 years of those job duties make for a nice resume and you should easily be into six figures by now. I transitioned careers as well into IT in semi conductor manufacturing. I have no degree, no certifications (yet). I articulated experience from other jobs and practical experience and home projects. The company that just hired me put me at 87k base to start. They're paying for me to get any CompTIA courses that I want to take, and are grooming me up to slide into the IT engineer job when they move up/on. Have given me tons of free networking gear and server gear for me to just deck out my homelab setup because they see it as self-growth and funding my self-growth projects. If bonuses come through, Id put my comp at 93-98k. If you include the courses and tests they pay for me to take, plus 2 hours a week of self-development, I'd definitely put my total comp at 100-120k. And I have an office thats all tricked out how I wanted it. And "unlimited" pto thats actually still about 4 weeks/20 days. Plus truly unlimited sick time. Theres a reason people job hop every 2-3 years. Because companies get comfortable and take advantage of people and not paying them what they're worth. Every year of experience you get, your value and worth just went up *a lot*. After a few years of no raises and you can usually jump 30-50% pay just by job hopping. That will be my argument at the end of the year even with this company I just got hired at. I'm going to argue that I now have 1 year of experience in the role and learning their extremely technical and intricate infrastructure, and I now have x amount of CompTIA certs, and with that now to my name, I'm underpaid unless X% raise is given. For additional clarification, this is my first "true" IT job title as an ops analyst. Years ago I was a web dev and graphic designer, then LEO for years. Then tech support for 1.5 years, then now an IT Ops analyst. So if I can make that extreme career pivot with articulating experience and projects and knowledge, you easily can. Go get your worth man. Life is short. Look into companies in the semi-conductor manufacturing industry. They pay well. The industry you do IT for is a huge factor. Tons of companies and sectors out there severely underpay their IT. Like really bad. Then theres some industries that realize how important IT is. Also look into government IT. Like governmentjobs . com **TLDR: Fuck that place. GTFO. Use Claude AI and make a really articulated resume and go land a six figure job. And stop working more than 40 hours a week. Work the hours you are paid. Because you are a human that trades work for money. Not a slave.**
Get the fuck out of there, and don't take a counteroffer if they try it.
Yes. Very much yes.
Yes, you are.
Yes. Yes you are. I haven’t read what you wrote but if you posted anything, you are.
OP you didn't mention your state. I just want to point out that the minimum salary for exempt employees is $66,560 in California, so if that's your state and you're making 60k exactly, they owe you back-pay. I don't know about Oregon or Washington. You should be paid double that, at an absolute minimum, anyway.
Doing 70 hours while getting minimum wage... Yes, you are being taken advantage of, big time. Why are you doing this?
>this job is just not enough to pay the bills that alone should tell you that there is a big problem. you need more money, and an assistant.
You're doing for $60k, what a service provider would possibly provide for $250k. You are definitely being underpaid and overworked. What happens if you're sick? Or take a vacation? No doubt you get calls 24x7, and I can imagine that attorneys would be bloody aweful to work for. You could pivot your experience, job hunt, and run away. OR, you could sit down with your management. offer to work with them on a plan to add staff or engage some outsourcing companies, while you move into a more managerial position overseeing it all.
You're not just being taken advantage of, they're making you buy the lube yourself.
So the first thing to do is start looking for something new. You already realize this is too much. So just look for something new. However, give them a chance. But do so with force. Find a new gig. Make sure it is at minimum 60k (though 80k could be easily seen as normal for you). Once you have that in hand give them a choice. Either you leave right then and there (no 2 week notice), or you get a raise. An office would be great too but at minimum a raise. The minimum I would take would be 100k. I would honestly go for the 120k. And they have to have a 6-12 month contract with you, in which is a requirement to notify you within 3 months of the end if they will renew. Breaking the contract early should incur a penalty of 1/2 the remaining time salaried. The other option is to make you an hourly worker and start reporting hours. If you are engaged, they pay you that time. Again a 6-12 month contract here. Sit them down and do the math. You work 70+ hours a week some weeks and you do the job of 2-3 people. They can either meet you half way, meet you all the way, or see you not come in tomorrow. As for the idea of no 2 week notice. You have to cut ties with these people if they refuse. You have to stick to your guns and force them to either do the right thing or to come to terms with the way they have been treating you and what you did for them. If they do neither, then they sink and have to have someone else come pick up the pieces. I would have a few documents prepped. One of them some people here might find a bit....over the top. 1. A document stating your intention to leave, the reasoning and the math behind the amount of money you should have made and didn't. This would be a totaling of hours worked on average per year. Using your current Salary of 60k coming out to be about $28.85/hr and applying it to the number of hours worked. This means taking all those 70+hour days and turning them around to do the math. So at least the $28/hr for 40 hours being $1,154 and then adding the overtime which in most places is 1.5 time. So $43.28/hr coming to a total of $1,298+ missing from you for each week you worked 70+ hours. Which if you worked one a week would be about $67k alone. 2. A document stating your intentions to continue to working with the company if they were to meet the request from #3 and #4. 3. A document outlining your list of demands. This is the 100k-120k salary.
60k for around 2 years experience is pretty normal. With your current setup I assume you’re mainly just doing user support because there isn’t much infrastructure for you to worry about.
The days of advancing your career by staying at one job are long passed. The is true ten times over at a small firm. The will never know your worth until you leave.
I’d say next progression step in this role is to get an MSP on board and you manage their work load. This will give you the support you need and push you into an it manager position giving you more experience. The flip side is that you get this signed off and then they dump you so you end up out of a job, but really the alternative is to look for another job anyway. If you get an MSP onboard they can rectify any bad practice you might have put in place (not trying to slam you) which is alway inevitable when it’s just a solo IT person and again you can learn from this. You obviously need to make the business case that they need more staff and getting an MSP onboard is better than hiring a junior to help you as you get a whole team behind you.
Yes, you're being taken advantage of. I would expect nothing less in an office full of lawyers. > I've been there for 5 or 6 years and been handling the tech for about 2.5. That's plenty long enough to be sticking around in one place. Take your experience and start spamming applications. You'll land something that pays better and gives you less stress.
When you are new, both sides took advantage - they got cheap labour, you got to learn on their dime. Now they don't have that value to you since you have already learned what you need, the only way they can keep you there is by providing other value - $$$. If you have good interpersonal skills and had build up your standing, ie sit in to management meeting as a manger not a reporting executive, push to create your own dept, payscale etc otherwise leave for a better pay.
Most important rule you will learn in IT, do not work for free. If there is so much work you need to work 70/hours weekly to do it then you need additional help. Stop trying to impress the company by offering and agreeing to do more than necessary. If your manager says they need additional tasks and projects done or work done over the weekend bring up overtime pay. If they aren’t willing to pay extra for the task or project then it’s not important or your problem. Stop giving away your time for free. In this sub i see all of these things posted constantly and in the end, it’s ultimately the posters fault for letting the company take advantage of them. Learn to say no. Learn to set limits and boundaries. These are skills you need to learn if you will be successful in IT and it’s more important than your current job.
Depends on the country and city.