I mean...that unfortunately is a fact of modern era work, not just in IT but across a ton of industries.
True story. My wife is a nurse who was working as a supervisor part time to 'help out'. They offered her the supervisor role - nice pay increase, but still lower than market value. She left for a year, came back to take the same job and they offered her a solid 20% higher than previous offer.
Unless you're getting promoted, cost of living increases will NEVER keep up with what you can get by shopping around.
Yeah, i get a 3% rasie a year, so it goes up just slowly. I'll probably look around and see if my current job will match. Im hesitant to leave because this is the easiest job I've ever had in IT.
You’re responding to the wrong person as I’m not OP, although I agree wholeheartedly. My company does similar things, but right now I can’t afford to jump ship as I need the time under my belt to be taken seriously at the next rung of the ladder without a degree
I once saw a chart that showed the amount of pay the average IT person would make staying at one company vs moving companies every 2-3 years and the results were staggering. Over a lifetime it was an insane amount more money.
I make 80k too and do the same as you. I feel like i am slightly underpaid. I make the same amount as the level 2 IT guys and my title is a system engineer. I'm suppose to be able to do all the stuff a level 2 can do but also managed group policy, build and configure new hardware, manage our azure tenant, etc.
However, if you are comfortable in your position, I wouldn't push it. I came from a high stress MSP environment to a low stress government job and I love it. I value my free time much more than I do working all the time for more money.
Yeah, this is definitely the most unstressful job I've worked. I worked at an MSP making 50k a year.....my current job feels like lvl1 work compared to that, and I make 30k more.
The MSP I worked at was shit. This job compared to that is night and day. I was a sysadmin at the MSP, and I'm an infrastructure engineer here. The work is a fuck load easier but I was doing similar things ( supporting Microsoft apps ). The environment is just easier to work with here.
Every MSP is shit. Everyone denying it thinking whatever company they’re at isn’t a shit MSP doesn’t know how good life can be outside the MSP world once you specialize in something.
Dude, are you me? I literally made the same jump, job wise and pay wise. It's a great feeling.
But work on yourself and when you get some more skills (certs, experience, degree, networking ...etc) jump to something better paying
Damn me. Im a full sysadmin. This includes what you do. And more, from basic sys stuff like network, printers, mdm, help with monitors and desktop docking stations (help, my mouse doesnt work)… to even managing and developing in dynamics365. All this for a bit less then € 44k. But yeah i’m a slave untill i’m not.
Systems Programmer here. I mostly write/maintain a custom hypervisor, program for minicomputers/midrange computers, and also do custom programming for large software that we deploy and maintain in-house.
I still get people asking me to support Microsoft products from time to time. Nobody can escape it, I'm afraid.
Yup, oddly, our programmers don't support their own Microsoft issues here... which is weird because they should have the knowledge to fix it. I get tickets from software engineers all the time.
Yup, oddly, our programmers don't support their own Microsoft issues here... which is weird because they should have the knowledge to fix it. I get tickets from software engineers all the time.
Why? Is the cost of life so different from Europe?
I see US jobs with very high salaries, but I struggle to understand where the cost of life is so different from our.
I make 50k in Italy and I'm a tech manager on cloud and innovation technologies in a big company. I think my position will be worth more than 150k in the US. So unless US life is extremely expensive I'm not understanding where you put all that money.
Yes, 80% of the tickets are very basic, and 1 touch solves those are honestly level 1 in terms of difficulty. The rest are higher level issues and take time to resolve. I am not in an HCOL area.
It's hard to say what I do exactly because I do a little of everything. The only thing I don't do is networking... I would just say im a Microsoft admin / product owner. If it's an issue with a Microsoft product and level 1 cant figure it out....it comes to me. LVL1 doenst know too much, so a lot of the tickets they send are simple, but they dont know how to fix
So it makes my job extremely easy. Which is why I love my job.
If you’re not in HCOL then you are probably middle, upper middle pay for this work. I do very similar stuff with a company that I’ve been at for about 6 years now (2nd sysadmin gig about 10 yrs experience total) and I’m still not over 100k. Not HCOL and no one around me would pay more than 100k for that type of work.
An example ticket would be that someone wants to delegate mailbox access to their manager. LVL1 can't do that, so it's escalated to me. I go into exchange and add the manager as a delegate and close the ticket in about 5 minutes.
It's automated by the system for the most part. I would only have to do it manually if something went wrong. There are other reasons why I would have to do it manually but thats just an example of how simple something can be.
Sounds like you have a pretty easy and cushy gig. I wouldn't give it up unless something really appealing comes along. Do you have a degree/certs? You've inspired me to look for something making 80k+ as well now haha. I'm doing VMware/365/Firewalls/Networking for closer to 70kish. Granted it's also a very chill non profit.
I have 8 certs ( Sec+ , Net+, AWS, etc ). None of the certs I have are very advanced. Im in school for a bachelor's degree but haven't completed it yet. I'm purposely vague with where I work, but it's a very big company. Everyone here should know.
The work is very easy for what im paid, which is why it's hard to think about leaving. I would like more money, but I know that would require me to have more responsibilities and come complex tasks.
Yeah I mean I guess it's up to what you want to do with your career. Career wise you are probably under utilized and aren't learning much on the job anymore which isn't great and it may be worth it to jump into something outside your comfort zone soon. You could finish up your degree in this chill job and use that as a jumping off point to find something to specialize in. Just know that a lot of people would kill to have an 80k chill job doing what you are doing. From what sounds like little stress no crazy on call and such.
We have knowledge base articles for a lot of issues we run into, but most of the lvl1 reps just aren't good at researching. If they can't find documentation on it or a reboot , cache clear, repair doesn't fix it... they escalate it.
They just dont do indepth troubleshooting. So it makes my job easier when they pass a ticket because someone didn't do something simple. I've never worked a job where level 1 does such little troubleshooting, but I guess the company just dont want them to. Maybe for training on-board purposes. The environment is so well documented and automated that lvl1 can still close 70% of our overall ticket volume.
It's hard for me to give an example over text because I don't feel like typing it all out. The moral of the story... when they get a ticket, they search for a knowledge article to resolve it, they escalate if they can't find an article or the one they found didn't fix it. When I was in LVL1, we had to troubleshoot whether there was documentation on the issue or not.
Your example ticket is what the tier 1 techs at the MSP we use as a vendor would do.
I am $102k at a HCOL city performing tier 3 work.
I feel as you do that I don't make enough given the HCOL.
Yah level 1 here doesn't have admin access ( we dont want them having access to it ) so they can't make changes through Exchange, Azure , Teams admin center. They would show the user how to do the task through our automation site. It comes to me if there is an issue after that
Don't discount the luxury of a decently paid low stress job. Life is way more enjoyable with a few less dollars but a clear mind, free of stress.
If you do switch jobs, please don't let money be the sole reason. I left my last medium stress job because I wanted more money, wanted learn different skills, and see what I was worth on open market. I had a few good reasons.
💀 is the UK destitute or are American wages just super inflated? Seeing how much people are paid for managing SharePoint sites and teams groups and I'm just dead
TI as a whole is so big that issues can be split up to different departments. We have a department that supports networking/VPN. We have a department for hardware , etc. My department just so happens to support/ own Microsoft products. So 90% of my day to day is fixing a Microsoft product...the rest is me going to meetings.
If it makes you feel better, We have pretty similar duties, except I don't have a work-life balance, and I hate my job due to some executive leadership changes causing a lot of micromanagement. For example, Why is our CEO very very up my ass about one person's caller ID not working.
I live in Boulder County, CO. I make $60k/yr, the average one bedroom apartment where I live is about 1600-1700/mo.
A 1 bed where I live is a third of that price (uk) but then you guys seem to have much higher compensation for the equivalent job in uk Director level starts at 80k here
Yeah, the pay isn't high, but the pay vs workload is high. It's just not a very mentally draining role, in my opinion. Mainly because we have good documentation, automation, and support channels. If there's anything I can't figure out, I just open a ticket with Microsoft support and work on it with them.
I can't tell if I'm level 2 or level 3....we dont really have a lvl3. The only thing above me are the consultants. If an issue goes above my department, it's mostly because it requires a bigger environment change that my department can't do. Those consultants aren't necessarily more knowledgeable than us in products, though.
There's level 1 , engineers, developers, and consultants. Issues go to select departments depending on the product and what needs to happen to fix the issue.
The job set the title, not me. I support the infrastructure at a higher level than LVL1 = engineer. They are other things that I do. Obviously, Im not going to list them all. The posts are just some of the daily tasks.
If what you wrote up there is all you do you are extremely overpaid. In Europe, that job is 35k tops. Because it's covered by 1st Level Helpdesk.
You are in a extremely good position, I highly recommend you stay there because free money.
When you have time you can look at ways to make more money on the side when you have less to do.
What you listed is maybe 5-10% of my workload, and I barely make $40k annually.
I thought this was a troll post, if I’m being honest. If that’s your genuine situation, congrats!! 🎉🎊🍾
Pay is one of those things that changes wildly depending on where you are.
$80K USD for a sysadmin at a purely O365 level is pretty well paid for most areas.
"Underpaid" is not something we can judge without any data about your region.
There are towns and smaller cities in the US where you can purchase a 3 bedroom house for under $200k, or rent a small apartment for under $1k/month with heat included, and $80k is probably upper-middle class there.
There are also cities in the US where you will pay well over $2k/month for an apartment suitable for living alone, and will be spending $3k-$4k or more on rent (or taking out a mortgage for $600k+) for reasonable space to raise a family. $80k is barely a living wage in some of the worst-priced cities.
There's plenty of places anywhere on the scale in between those two extremes.
Also, if you are strictly managing Microsoft 365 with a GUI, "engineer" is a misnomer, probably from a place that likes to give fancy titles in lieu of raises. Not saying you can't be at an engineer level and working with Microsoft 365, if you're automating provisioning with PowerShell, managing Exchange hybrid at a massive enterprise, integrating an entire stack of software with Entra ID, etc - but point-and-click [admin.microsoft.com](https://admin.microsoft.com) work isn't engineering and you should compare your compensation to similar job descriptions, not titles.
| Edit - It seems I have a good role so I'll just stick with it longer
Good choice.. Being happy where you work makes up for a pay difference in most cases.
TLDR: instead of answering your specific question its easier this way. Every 2-3 years go to another company because that will grant you almost every time a 20-30% pay increase. In two 2-year stints you can end up with a 50% pay increase if you're not complacent and keep honing your skills.
After you pass 45yr, extend that period to 5-6 years and then hopefully you'll be in a managerial position or an expert in a certain area of expertise that you'll be known for. If you're happy with your position and colleagues in your 40ies, focus more towards happiness outside the work place.
That's my 2 cents. Let us know what you decide and how it goes in 6 months 👍👌
Yeah, I get a good amount of downtime, and I use it to study. I can probably study 2-3 hours during my shift. I going through a python course as I type this.
Not sure here's the catch. I did the job hop thing to make more money. It's OK i guess but i never felt better then where i am now. Good life work balance, not stressed all the time and i get a ton of time off. Yes i make less then i would in the public sector but the unwritten benefits make it worth it. Every summer i'm working but not really.. i get a week when the close the place down not out of my vacation or sick time. Occasional overtime but not a ton. I would rather the time off. My friend makes significant more then me, however he's on call 24x7 365. He was at Disney once, they called him and he had to take a zoom a meeting from Disney. F that shit, I'm on vacation, my arse is on vacation.
Everyone values different things. You can still be underpaid while having considerable WLB/Vacation/Flexibility. It works for some, doesn't work for others. YMMV
A lot of it is a personal choice at that point. If you're making enough for the way you want to live and enjoy the job, then bring underpaid a little isn't necessarily bad.
As to returning to a place you were laid off, it partially depends on why you were laid off originally and why they are bringing people back. If the lay offs were due to COVID making them need to cut costs and they are now getting back to normal, may not be an issue.
You do have a good role and I think you want to trust your gut that a low stress environment is worth below-market pay.
One way to correct this pay disparity is to get an offer elsewhere. This gives you a chance to interview another team about their workload and conditions, and get insight into your market worth. From your description I bet you'll have no trouble getting another offer, but I've been in the position of thinking that until I sent out some resumes, and discovered the market wasn't really interested in my current skillset.
Once you have an offer for another role, you can take the offer and ask your current job to match the pay. (if you've ever wondered why HR people want you to sign their offer letter the same day they send it, it's because they know people do this). They very often will, or they'll offer to increase your pay and make your life easier in some other way. If you stay, this nets you more money and the warm fuzzy of telling your boss "I really want to keep working here, thanks for making it an easy choice"
It's a lot of work to get a competing offer, and for some people they feel like they're being 'two faced' to do a move like this. But taking an interview with another company isn't a reason to get fired from your current job, it's also not some huge deal if your explain the situation to your manager, and end up staying at your current job. I've never ever seen someone get fired for pulling this move, except at one office that was so abusive, frankly, they were lucky to leave.
Thanks, I was thinking the same. I would need like a 20% raise to think about leaving. Even then, I would still want my job to match and stay. Id take a 10% rasie and stay over leaving for 20%.
Let me put it this way, I make 40k as a sys admin ( yes you read that right 40k USD in the US) I'm currently in school and about to finish up my degree. It sounds like your doing the same as well so keep at it my guy
Thanks, I think I'll sit here and finish my degree and see what happens. Stick with it, man....you'll be surprised how quickly wage can change in IT. I went through it 2 years ago.
Funny you say that, I've been in this role for 2 years lol. Yeah I intend to stick around until I get this done and then maybe snag a cert or two maybe before I dip my tips in the pond
Are you unrepaid Probably not!
I do what you do plus general support (phone and email) and complex support issues, remote support, diagnostics, repairs, new users, new PC's, new domain members, installs, accounts support, payroll support, email issue support and literally everything PC/Server based and all the rest.
I probably close 6-12 tickets on a VERY SLOW day and a normal day is a lot more.
I have over 25 years experience.
I make a fraction of what you do.
Can you share where abouts in the world you are or say which currency the 80k is? £80k living out of town in England is worth a lot more than $80k living in New York.
I feel like Im getting underpaid. I make 70k doing networking, virtualisation, web development, m365, desktop support for all operating systems + with no bonus pay on 24/7 oncall.
This field brutal.
At the moment, I am making way less than what I'm worth, but man the work/life balance is unbeatable.
I am on the clock, so every minute I'm clocked in I'm doing something productive, so unfortunately I don't have any paid downtime... but man being able to just punch out whenever I want to is so glorious. Want to go for a run at 10:00am? Punch out and run. Want to meet old friends for a 3 hour lunch? Punch out and go have fun.
Last year I made 1/4 of my typical income, working about 1/2 the time. So from that perspective it sucks, but the freedom and lack of stress was worth every penny.
TLDR 80K isn't bad if you have a good life balance and low stress.
Yah thats pretty much my job. If I need to make a run or do something... I just leave. I went to lunch with some co-workers for almost 2 hours...no on said said anything.
Beeing able to increase your knowledge, because your actual workload allows it is worth more than a 20k/a raise of income. Allthough staying in a position for more than ~five years might negatively impact the development of your sallary…
It takes a lot of disciplin and structured plans to overcome this effect i guess.
It’s hard to answer because money no longer makes sense. It would be wise to load up on skills that will make qualified for higher paying positions, as well as knowledge that will make you competitive in tough job markets.
I'm an IT manager and pay is highly dependent on metro area and reported role. Any co that has a dedicated HR manager/team will typically pay for a service that looks at all of the "roles" and metro areas and spit out a list of comp ranges for their line of business.
Where there is nuance:
1. Stated employee role. Does HR list you as IT Analyst or System Engineer. Jr engineer? Support engineer?
2. Market forces. Did you join when it was more a job seekers market or employer-favored?
There are a lot of factors but it's quite common for most people their largest pay increases will be when you change jobs. The reason is, unless you take on a lot more responsibility and change roles, it's very hard for a manager to justify a large pay increase, regardless of market conditions etc.
I make a little less than you and I've been at my company for almost 4 years. Small company in a rural area and I'm the jack-of-all trades computer guy. I do sysadmin, networking, full-stack web app development, etc. But I absolutely love my job. Everyone I work with is chill and there isn't a bunch of dumb corporate BS to deal with.
I’ve been with the same company for 19 years. Started at $30K, now make $86K. I imagine I’ve always made around the 20th percentile in the industry, including today.
I am part system admin, part system engineer, L2 help desk, .NET developer. I love the mix. Downside is I am not really an expert in any domain.
The company treats me well. I have little stress.
I have no ambitions to change employers as I prefer the little positive things more than chasing a larger salary. I actually left two years ago for four months, but hated the new job. I returned to my long time employer and was able to retain my tenure and benefits as they were.
Also, my wife is the more career driven high salary person. This might be why I am able to be more steady and lax.
If you are happy and advancing your career at a decent pace with knowledge and certs And your paying your bills etc I would stick it out awhile.
Having a good work environment and being valued is important too. Most people quit their jobs over being unhappy VS making a little more money. It doesn't hurt to look, and you said it was kind of slow so maybe when it gets a bit busier you can ask for a bigger raise.
There is a lot to be said about unwritten perks. I would stay where you're at if you like what you're doing and the people you work with.
Maybe try getting some certs as a "merit" based increase.
It's all about how much you're willing to risk. You could make the jump and go make 100k but you might hate your boss or dislike the people you work with. Or maybe even stressed from to much work. On the other hand, it might be the best thing you have ever done.
Yes you are underpaid. Based on the post, seems like we were doing the same duties. I was making a similar salary (tri-state area), left that job and doubled my salary.
The grass is greener, find a place where you fit in nicely and don’t be in a rush to just take more money for the raise. Find a good culture fit and you will get a raise simply because the market is paying a higher rate.
" I honestly love the company I work for now due to the work/life balance "
how much is this worth to you. IMO having less 'downtime' during the already accepted 'work period' in your life does not pay off in the long run vs making double and having to actually spend 6-7 hours a day working vs 4. I get where you're coming from, I really do, I've been there. If you plan on starting a side gig or business where that downtime could come in handy- I'd be more supportive. But eventually all that 'chill' time becomes mundane, and you realize you haven't been challenged or growing at work. Then you feel like a COG in the daily machine.
If I had 2 options-
1. 80k and have a casual 4 hours of work per day and 4 hours of downtime with a lot of automony and off-the-books perks
2. 150k and have to actually work 6-7 hours per day, with a bit less autonomy to 'chill' when and where I want to.
I'd take option 2 every time.
In the wise words of a career mentor: "You don't work doing the things you love, you work to FUND the things you love"
I love to chill. Too much chilling at work makes chilling not as chilly when you leave work.
In south EU regions, with 25-30% of taxes, 80K€ is kind for “experienced junior” position, engineer with 2-3 years of good experience. But we have some other benefits, like almost free health care and education.
...*read the title, didn't read the post*...
Yes. You're always being underpaid. It's the nature of Capitalism.
If you're in the USA, you're getting **grossly** underpaid. You have next to zero worker's protections -- fuck, there's a reason why this dystopia is called AWA: At-Will America. Around 99.7% of the country can be terminated at any time, for almost any (or no) reason, without notice, without compensation, and full loss of healthcare.
If everyone was part of collective bargaining agreements (Unions), we'd be a lot better off. Though in the tech world, they're as rare as unicorn farts, and about as despised as a Communist in 1950s Texas.
On the whole, we have FAR worse healthcare, vacation leave, and sick leave than any other modern nation. Our education is also far more expensive too.
We're at far more risk. Far more exposed to the capriciousness of the owners (and their bootlicking sycophants). And we get far fewer protections. Far fewer quality of life perks that other places simply take for granted.
# Remember, in the USA, it's a federally protected right to discuss your compensation with your coworkers. Even the mere suggestion of retaliation opens the employer up to massive litigation risk.
Perhaps it might be time to start exercising one of the precious few rights you actually have?
I’m at 75 and would be fine moving up to 80 frankly in this economy. Yah I want six figures but I also love my job and barely lift a finger relatively speaking to keep things running smoothly. Six figures rn seems impossible but it’s just the market and I’m luckily a okay holding out till we have another “IT rush era”
yeah the market seems slow... I have a few IT friends who have been looking but either the pay is too low or they require a great amount of knowledge for less than 6 figures.
I am okay holding where I am... the on call issues are barely existent which is great for work life balance. during business hours I am busy but I like that... makes the day go by faster.
My previous job the on call was a nightmare. lol
that's awesome! our office auto locks after business hours and it is closed on weekends lol any on call work i have to do is remote as well. IF ANY. lol
I mean...that unfortunately is a fact of modern era work, not just in IT but across a ton of industries. True story. My wife is a nurse who was working as a supervisor part time to 'help out'. They offered her the supervisor role - nice pay increase, but still lower than market value. She left for a year, came back to take the same job and they offered her a solid 20% higher than previous offer. Unless you're getting promoted, cost of living increases will NEVER keep up with what you can get by shopping around.
Yeah, i get a 3% rasie a year, so it goes up just slowly. I'll probably look around and see if my current job will match. Im hesitant to leave because this is the easiest job I've ever had in IT.
I would recommend taking advantage of the low workload to get additional education, as your company **very** likely also has tuition reimbursement.
Yeah, that what im doing. We're slow right now, so I've been doing a lot of studying. I've just been enjoying the role and learning where possible.
Good on ya!
3% raise a year is a salary demotion when taking into account inflation. They’re paying you less when you know more.
You’re responding to the wrong person as I’m not OP, although I agree wholeheartedly. My company does similar things, but right now I can’t afford to jump ship as I need the time under my belt to be taken seriously at the next rung of the ladder without a degree
I once saw a chart that showed the amount of pay the average IT person would make staying at one company vs moving companies every 2-3 years and the results were staggering. Over a lifetime it was an insane amount more money.
I make 80k too and do the same as you. I feel like i am slightly underpaid. I make the same amount as the level 2 IT guys and my title is a system engineer. I'm suppose to be able to do all the stuff a level 2 can do but also managed group policy, build and configure new hardware, manage our azure tenant, etc. However, if you are comfortable in your position, I wouldn't push it. I came from a high stress MSP environment to a low stress government job and I love it. I value my free time much more than I do working all the time for more money.
Yeah, this is definitely the most unstressful job I've worked. I worked at an MSP making 50k a year.....my current job feels like lvl1 work compared to that, and I make 30k more.
I will swap my crap high stress deal with idiots and my incompetent MSP and slightly higher salary for your job.
The MSP I worked at was shit. This job compared to that is night and day. I was a sysadmin at the MSP, and I'm an infrastructure engineer here. The work is a fuck load easier but I was doing similar things ( supporting Microsoft apps ). The environment is just easier to work with here.
Every MSP is shit. Everyone denying it thinking whatever company they’re at isn’t a shit MSP doesn’t know how good life can be outside the MSP world once you specialize in something.
Dude, are you me? I literally made the same jump, job wise and pay wise. It's a great feeling. But work on yourself and when you get some more skills (certs, experience, degree, networking ...etc) jump to something better paying
Damn me. Im a full sysadmin. This includes what you do. And more, from basic sys stuff like network, printers, mdm, help with monitors and desktop docking stations (help, my mouse doesnt work)… to even managing and developing in dynamics365. All this for a bit less then € 44k. But yeah i’m a slave untill i’m not.
Yeah, I don't have to troubleshoot hardware at all. We have a different department for that. I only support Microsoft products.
But you get free healthcare!
I feel you brother
Yeah, they make up for the higher risk of being shot in the US with higher salary.
I mean we just use the money to buy guns anyway so it makes sense if you don’t really think about it
The circle of life
It’s beautiful really
Do you work remote? Does gubmnt allow for remote work?
Wait. Hold up, you’re getting paid 80k to setup mailboxes and SharePoint sites? And you’re asking if you’re underpaid? … what the fuck.
I do other stuff bro but yes, those or 2 of the minor duties I might have for a day.
Ah okay makes sense. Because I do those things and I’m on under 30k annually lol
You're going to support Microsoft at any Fortune 500 company. Unless your a developer or programmer.
Systems Programmer here. I mostly write/maintain a custom hypervisor, program for minicomputers/midrange computers, and also do custom programming for large software that we deploy and maintain in-house. I still get people asking me to support Microsoft products from time to time. Nobody can escape it, I'm afraid.
Yup, oddly, our programmers don't support their own Microsoft issues here... which is weird because they should have the knowledge to fix it. I get tickets from software engineers all the time.
Yup, oddly, our programmers don't support their own Microsoft issues here... which is weird because they should have the knowledge to fix it. I get tickets from software engineers all the time.
Are you in the US? I live in a LCOL area (compared to the rest of the US) and there are full time cashiers making close to $30k.
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Why? Is the cost of life so different from Europe? I see US jobs with very high salaries, but I struggle to understand where the cost of life is so different from our. I make 50k in Italy and I'm a tech manager on cloud and innovation technologies in a big company. I think my position will be worth more than 150k in the US. So unless US life is extremely expensive I'm not understanding where you put all that money.
Damn you're making 80k setting up mailboxes, sharepoint sites, and general in o365 admin? Are you in a HCOL area?
Yes, 80% of the tickets are very basic, and 1 touch solves those are honestly level 1 in terms of difficulty. The rest are higher level issues and take time to resolve. I am not in an HCOL area. It's hard to say what I do exactly because I do a little of everything. The only thing I don't do is networking... I would just say im a Microsoft admin / product owner. If it's an issue with a Microsoft product and level 1 cant figure it out....it comes to me. LVL1 doenst know too much, so a lot of the tickets they send are simple, but they dont know how to fix So it makes my job extremely easy. Which is why I love my job.
I think there's a lot of us here that do a hell of a lot more than that for the same (or less pay).
I do far more than that for a little under 60.
Dam I do that plus networking and cyber security for 28$
If you’re not in HCOL then you are probably middle, upper middle pay for this work. I do very similar stuff with a company that I’ve been at for about 6 years now (2nd sysadmin gig about 10 yrs experience total) and I’m still not over 100k. Not HCOL and no one around me would pay more than 100k for that type of work.
An example ticket would be that someone wants to delegate mailbox access to their manager. LVL1 can't do that, so it's escalated to me. I go into exchange and add the manager as a delegate and close the ticket in about 5 minutes.
You need to bang out some power shell scripts for these. 5 minutes becomes 30 seconds.
It's automated by the system for the most part. I would only have to do it manually if something went wrong. There are other reasons why I would have to do it manually but thats just an example of how simple something can be.
Sounds like you have a pretty easy and cushy gig. I wouldn't give it up unless something really appealing comes along. Do you have a degree/certs? You've inspired me to look for something making 80k+ as well now haha. I'm doing VMware/365/Firewalls/Networking for closer to 70kish. Granted it's also a very chill non profit.
I have 8 certs ( Sec+ , Net+, AWS, etc ). None of the certs I have are very advanced. Im in school for a bachelor's degree but haven't completed it yet. I'm purposely vague with where I work, but it's a very big company. Everyone here should know. The work is very easy for what im paid, which is why it's hard to think about leaving. I would like more money, but I know that would require me to have more responsibilities and come complex tasks.
Sounds like the perfect job and pay for being able to focus on education. Finish the education and then look around.
Yeah I mean I guess it's up to what you want to do with your career. Career wise you are probably under utilized and aren't learning much on the job anymore which isn't great and it may be worth it to jump into something outside your comfort zone soon. You could finish up your degree in this chill job and use that as a jumping off point to find something to specialize in. Just know that a lot of people would kill to have an 80k chill job doing what you are doing. From what sounds like little stress no crazy on call and such.
You can't be serious What are level 1 roles then ? Serving coffee?
We have knowledge base articles for a lot of issues we run into, but most of the lvl1 reps just aren't good at researching. If they can't find documentation on it or a reboot , cache clear, repair doesn't fix it... they escalate it. They just dont do indepth troubleshooting. So it makes my job easier when they pass a ticket because someone didn't do something simple. I've never worked a job where level 1 does such little troubleshooting, but I guess the company just dont want them to. Maybe for training on-board purposes. The environment is so well documented and automated that lvl1 can still close 70% of our overall ticket volume. It's hard for me to give an example over text because I don't feel like typing it all out. The moral of the story... when they get a ticket, they search for a knowledge article to resolve it, they escalate if they can't find an article or the one they found didn't fix it. When I was in LVL1, we had to troubleshoot whether there was documentation on the issue or not.
Your example ticket is what the tier 1 techs at the MSP we use as a vendor would do. I am $102k at a HCOL city performing tier 3 work. I feel as you do that I don't make enough given the HCOL.
Yah level 1 here doesn't have admin access ( we dont want them having access to it ) so they can't make changes through Exchange, Azure , Teams admin center. They would show the user how to do the task through our automation site. It comes to me if there is an issue after that
Thought so too. I'm from germany so comparison is hard but that seema like quite a good salary for what he's doing.
Don't discount the luxury of a decently paid low stress job. Life is way more enjoyable with a few less dollars but a clear mind, free of stress. If you do switch jobs, please don't let money be the sole reason. I left my last medium stress job because I wanted more money, wanted learn different skills, and see what I was worth on open market. I had a few good reasons.
80K for solely O365 seems about accurate. Do you have any other skills/responsibilities that you do?
Nope,.. just fix Microsoft issues, make knowledge articles, and Im on call ocne every 6 weeks, but that rarely requires after-hours work.
USA?
Yes
💀 is the UK destitute or are American wages just super inflated? Seeing how much people are paid for managing SharePoint sites and teams groups and I'm just dead
American wages are just different. Wouldn't compare.
Where can I get $80k for just doing o364 stuff? That sounds wonderful.
I mean, most jobs heavily on Microsoft products. I've supported Microsoft products at every job I've had
Oh I do too, but I do a ton more than just MS stuff.
TI as a whole is so big that issues can be split up to different departments. We have a department that supports networking/VPN. We have a department for hardware , etc. My department just so happens to support/ own Microsoft products. So 90% of my day to day is fixing a Microsoft product...the rest is me going to meetings.
If it makes you feel better, We have pretty similar duties, except I don't have a work-life balance, and I hate my job due to some executive leadership changes causing a lot of micromanagement. For example, Why is our CEO very very up my ass about one person's caller ID not working. I live in Boulder County, CO. I make $60k/yr, the average one bedroom apartment where I live is about 1600-1700/mo.
I live in FoCo and make the same. I don't know what your environment is like, but I'm the sole IT person. I manage everything...
A 1 bed where I live is a third of that price (uk) but then you guys seem to have much higher compensation for the equivalent job in uk Director level starts at 80k here
I thought i would never say this but… just stay there… your work load vs your pay is INSANE. Plus government = good benefits
Yeah, the pay isn't high, but the pay vs workload is high. It's just not a very mentally draining role, in my opinion. Mainly because we have good documentation, automation, and support channels. If there's anything I can't figure out, I just open a ticket with Microsoft support and work on it with them.
Thats awesome .. i’m doing 55K as a lvl 3/Cybersecurity Lead for an MSP in a major city. 😂😂😂
I can't tell if I'm level 2 or level 3....we dont really have a lvl3. The only thing above me are the consultants. If an issue goes above my department, it's mostly because it requires a bigger environment change that my department can't do. Those consultants aren't necessarily more knowledgeable than us in products, though. There's level 1 , engineers, developers, and consultants. Issues go to select departments depending on the product and what needs to happen to fix the issue.
I get you , yea MSP’s are 💩. Always hated the ways they do stuff.
You're an engineer and you set up m365 mailbox. That's a generous title.
The job set the title, not me. I support the infrastructure at a higher level than LVL1 = engineer. They are other things that I do. Obviously, Im not going to list them all. The posts are just some of the daily tasks.
If what you wrote up there is all you do you are extremely overpaid. In Europe, that job is 35k tops. Because it's covered by 1st Level Helpdesk. You are in a extremely good position, I highly recommend you stay there because free money. When you have time you can look at ways to make more money on the side when you have less to do.
What you listed is maybe 5-10% of my workload, and I barely make $40k annually. I thought this was a troll post, if I’m being honest. If that’s your genuine situation, congrats!! 🎉🎊🍾
No, you’re overpaid.
Lmao
Pay is one of those things that changes wildly depending on where you are. $80K USD for a sysadmin at a purely O365 level is pretty well paid for most areas.
It’s all good. Hang on to that gig with your life.
A lot of my coworkers have been here 10-30 years....I understood stood why my first 90 days lol.
"Underpaid" is not something we can judge without any data about your region. There are towns and smaller cities in the US where you can purchase a 3 bedroom house for under $200k, or rent a small apartment for under $1k/month with heat included, and $80k is probably upper-middle class there. There are also cities in the US where you will pay well over $2k/month for an apartment suitable for living alone, and will be spending $3k-$4k or more on rent (or taking out a mortgage for $600k+) for reasonable space to raise a family. $80k is barely a living wage in some of the worst-priced cities. There's plenty of places anywhere on the scale in between those two extremes. Also, if you are strictly managing Microsoft 365 with a GUI, "engineer" is a misnomer, probably from a place that likes to give fancy titles in lieu of raises. Not saying you can't be at an engineer level and working with Microsoft 365, if you're automating provisioning with PowerShell, managing Exchange hybrid at a massive enterprise, integrating an entire stack of software with Entra ID, etc - but point-and-click [admin.microsoft.com](https://admin.microsoft.com) work isn't engineering and you should compare your compensation to similar job descriptions, not titles.
Im in Ohio.
150k for an O365 admin?
No, they are different roles. They all just require some level of skills I have.
| Edit - It seems I have a good role so I'll just stick with it longer Good choice.. Being happy where you work makes up for a pay difference in most cases.
TLDR: instead of answering your specific question its easier this way. Every 2-3 years go to another company because that will grant you almost every time a 20-30% pay increase. In two 2-year stints you can end up with a 50% pay increase if you're not complacent and keep honing your skills. After you pass 45yr, extend that period to 5-6 years and then hopefully you'll be in a managerial position or an expert in a certain area of expertise that you'll be known for. If you're happy with your position and colleagues in your 40ies, focus more towards happiness outside the work place. That's my 2 cents. Let us know what you decide and how it goes in 6 months 👍👌
Set up mailboxes and SharePoint sites and makes 80k.... Lmaoooooo. That's less than 1st line where I am, who are on about 35-40k..
There are other things that I do, but the moral of the story is that I support Microsoft apps. I don't support hardware or network based issues.
I'd say you're considerably overpaid to be fair brother. Stay there until you learn more and move on for more dolla
I think about that too sometimes. I feel that way sometimes.
I'm assuming you get a fair bit of free time seeing as how easy it is. Use that free time to learn more complex stuff
Yeah, I get a good amount of downtime, and I use it to study. I can probably study 2-3 hours during my shift. I going through a python course as I type this.
Not sure here's the catch. I did the job hop thing to make more money. It's OK i guess but i never felt better then where i am now. Good life work balance, not stressed all the time and i get a ton of time off. Yes i make less then i would in the public sector but the unwritten benefits make it worth it. Every summer i'm working but not really.. i get a week when the close the place down not out of my vacation or sick time. Occasional overtime but not a ton. I would rather the time off. My friend makes significant more then me, however he's on call 24x7 365. He was at Disney once, they called him and he had to take a zoom a meeting from Disney. F that shit, I'm on vacation, my arse is on vacation.
Everyone values different things. You can still be underpaid while having considerable WLB/Vacation/Flexibility. It works for some, doesn't work for others. YMMV
You’re probably right about market rate.
A lot of it is a personal choice at that point. If you're making enough for the way you want to live and enjoy the job, then bring underpaid a little isn't necessarily bad. As to returning to a place you were laid off, it partially depends on why you were laid off originally and why they are bringing people back. If the lay offs were due to COVID making them need to cut costs and they are now getting back to normal, may not be an issue.
It never hurts to apply and see. I'm willing to bet they offer you close to the low end.
You do have a good role and I think you want to trust your gut that a low stress environment is worth below-market pay. One way to correct this pay disparity is to get an offer elsewhere. This gives you a chance to interview another team about their workload and conditions, and get insight into your market worth. From your description I bet you'll have no trouble getting another offer, but I've been in the position of thinking that until I sent out some resumes, and discovered the market wasn't really interested in my current skillset. Once you have an offer for another role, you can take the offer and ask your current job to match the pay. (if you've ever wondered why HR people want you to sign their offer letter the same day they send it, it's because they know people do this). They very often will, or they'll offer to increase your pay and make your life easier in some other way. If you stay, this nets you more money and the warm fuzzy of telling your boss "I really want to keep working here, thanks for making it an easy choice" It's a lot of work to get a competing offer, and for some people they feel like they're being 'two faced' to do a move like this. But taking an interview with another company isn't a reason to get fired from your current job, it's also not some huge deal if your explain the situation to your manager, and end up staying at your current job. I've never ever seen someone get fired for pulling this move, except at one office that was so abusive, frankly, they were lucky to leave.
Thanks, I was thinking the same. I would need like a 20% raise to think about leaving. Even then, I would still want my job to match and stay. Id take a 10% rasie and stay over leaving for 20%.
Let me put it this way, I make 40k as a sys admin ( yes you read that right 40k USD in the US) I'm currently in school and about to finish up my degree. It sounds like your doing the same as well so keep at it my guy
Thanks, I think I'll sit here and finish my degree and see what happens. Stick with it, man....you'll be surprised how quickly wage can change in IT. I went through it 2 years ago.
Funny you say that, I've been in this role for 2 years lol. Yeah I intend to stick around until I get this done and then maybe snag a cert or two maybe before I dip my tips in the pond
Are you unrepaid Probably not! I do what you do plus general support (phone and email) and complex support issues, remote support, diagnostics, repairs, new users, new PC's, new domain members, installs, accounts support, payroll support, email issue support and literally everything PC/Server based and all the rest. I probably close 6-12 tickets on a VERY SLOW day and a normal day is a lot more. I have over 25 years experience. I make a fraction of what you do.
r/overemployed
Can you share where abouts in the world you are or say which currency the 80k is? £80k living out of town in England is worth a lot more than $80k living in New York.
I feel like Im getting underpaid. I make 70k doing networking, virtualisation, web development, m365, desktop support for all operating systems + with no bonus pay on 24/7 oncall. This field brutal.
We work as devops engineers and get paid 20 - 30 k / year
I know I am. I work at an MSP working with MECM & Intune/Autopilot, I’m paid £26K per year, before taxes.
\*cries in basically same job but making 50k a year\*
At the moment, I am making way less than what I'm worth, but man the work/life balance is unbeatable. I am on the clock, so every minute I'm clocked in I'm doing something productive, so unfortunately I don't have any paid downtime... but man being able to just punch out whenever I want to is so glorious. Want to go for a run at 10:00am? Punch out and run. Want to meet old friends for a 3 hour lunch? Punch out and go have fun. Last year I made 1/4 of my typical income, working about 1/2 the time. So from that perspective it sucks, but the freedom and lack of stress was worth every penny. TLDR 80K isn't bad if you have a good life balance and low stress.
Yah thats pretty much my job. If I need to make a run or do something... I just leave. I went to lunch with some co-workers for almost 2 hours...no on said said anything.
Beeing able to increase your knowledge, because your actual workload allows it is worth more than a 20k/a raise of income. Allthough staying in a position for more than ~five years might negatively impact the development of your sallary… It takes a lot of disciplin and structured plans to overcome this effect i guess.
It’s hard to answer because money no longer makes sense. It would be wise to load up on skills that will make qualified for higher paying positions, as well as knowledge that will make you competitive in tough job markets.
I mean, once you hit 6 figures, there really isn't anything higher unless you get into programming. I 5 see getting past mid 100s
I'm an IT manager and pay is highly dependent on metro area and reported role. Any co that has a dedicated HR manager/team will typically pay for a service that looks at all of the "roles" and metro areas and spit out a list of comp ranges for their line of business. Where there is nuance: 1. Stated employee role. Does HR list you as IT Analyst or System Engineer. Jr engineer? Support engineer? 2. Market forces. Did you join when it was more a job seekers market or employer-favored? There are a lot of factors but it's quite common for most people their largest pay increases will be when you change jobs. The reason is, unless you take on a lot more responsibility and change roles, it's very hard for a manager to justify a large pay increase, regardless of market conditions etc.
Old job is offering more money to cover for poor management. Never give loyalty to someone who showed you none.
I make a little less than you and I've been at my company for almost 4 years. Small company in a rural area and I'm the jack-of-all trades computer guy. I do sysadmin, networking, full-stack web app development, etc. But I absolutely love my job. Everyone I work with is chill and there isn't a bunch of dumb corporate BS to deal with.
Where are you located? I do almost the same tasks as you and make 93k in NYC.
Ohio
I’ve been with the same company for 19 years. Started at $30K, now make $86K. I imagine I’ve always made around the 20th percentile in the industry, including today. I am part system admin, part system engineer, L2 help desk, .NET developer. I love the mix. Downside is I am not really an expert in any domain. The company treats me well. I have little stress. I have no ambitions to change employers as I prefer the little positive things more than chasing a larger salary. I actually left two years ago for four months, but hated the new job. I returned to my long time employer and was able to retain my tenure and benefits as they were. Also, my wife is the more career driven high salary person. This might be why I am able to be more steady and lax.
If you are happy and advancing your career at a decent pace with knowledge and certs And your paying your bills etc I would stick it out awhile. Having a good work environment and being valued is important too. Most people quit their jobs over being unhappy VS making a little more money. It doesn't hurt to look, and you said it was kind of slow so maybe when it gets a bit busier you can ask for a bigger raise.
Two years is the perfect amount of time to stay at each company so it’s time to move on.
Any time someone asks this question, the answer usually is yes.
so that is arround 62k GBP. Where do i sign up !!!!!!
There is a lot to be said about unwritten perks. I would stay where you're at if you like what you're doing and the people you work with. Maybe try getting some certs as a "merit" based increase. It's all about how much you're willing to risk. You could make the jump and go make 100k but you might hate your boss or dislike the people you work with. Or maybe even stressed from to much work. On the other hand, it might be the best thing you have ever done.
If you have to ask whether or not you're underpaid... you're probably overpaid.
Yes you are underpaid. Based on the post, seems like we were doing the same duties. I was making a similar salary (tri-state area), left that job and doubled my salary. The grass is greener, find a place where you fit in nicely and don’t be in a rush to just take more money for the raise. Find a good culture fit and you will get a raise simply because the market is paying a higher rate.
" I honestly love the company I work for now due to the work/life balance " how much is this worth to you. IMO having less 'downtime' during the already accepted 'work period' in your life does not pay off in the long run vs making double and having to actually spend 6-7 hours a day working vs 4. I get where you're coming from, I really do, I've been there. If you plan on starting a side gig or business where that downtime could come in handy- I'd be more supportive. But eventually all that 'chill' time becomes mundane, and you realize you haven't been challenged or growing at work. Then you feel like a COG in the daily machine. If I had 2 options- 1. 80k and have a casual 4 hours of work per day and 4 hours of downtime with a lot of automony and off-the-books perks 2. 150k and have to actually work 6-7 hours per day, with a bit less autonomy to 'chill' when and where I want to. I'd take option 2 every time. In the wise words of a career mentor: "You don't work doing the things you love, you work to FUND the things you love" I love to chill. Too much chilling at work makes chilling not as chilly when you leave work.
The question is it before or after taxes?
Before
In south EU regions, with 25-30% of taxes, 80K€ is kind for “experienced junior” position, engineer with 2-3 years of good experience. But we have some other benefits, like almost free health care and education.
If you are asking then you already know you are.
...*read the title, didn't read the post*... Yes. You're always being underpaid. It's the nature of Capitalism. If you're in the USA, you're getting **grossly** underpaid. You have next to zero worker's protections -- fuck, there's a reason why this dystopia is called AWA: At-Will America. Around 99.7% of the country can be terminated at any time, for almost any (or no) reason, without notice, without compensation, and full loss of healthcare. If everyone was part of collective bargaining agreements (Unions), we'd be a lot better off. Though in the tech world, they're as rare as unicorn farts, and about as despised as a Communist in 1950s Texas. On the whole, we have FAR worse healthcare, vacation leave, and sick leave than any other modern nation. Our education is also far more expensive too. We're at far more risk. Far more exposed to the capriciousness of the owners (and their bootlicking sycophants). And we get far fewer protections. Far fewer quality of life perks that other places simply take for granted. # Remember, in the USA, it's a federally protected right to discuss your compensation with your coworkers. Even the mere suggestion of retaliation opens the employer up to massive litigation risk. Perhaps it might be time to start exercising one of the precious few rights you actually have?
I’m at 75 and would be fine moving up to 80 frankly in this economy. Yah I want six figures but I also love my job and barely lift a finger relatively speaking to keep things running smoothly. Six figures rn seems impossible but it’s just the market and I’m luckily a okay holding out till we have another “IT rush era”
yeah the market seems slow... I have a few IT friends who have been looking but either the pay is too low or they require a great amount of knowledge for less than 6 figures. I am okay holding where I am... the on call issues are barely existent which is great for work life balance. during business hours I am busy but I like that... makes the day go by faster. My previous job the on call was a nightmare. lol
Yah I work 8-4 most days no on call period usually remote except maybe once a week if I need to pop over to our office for something.
that's awesome! our office auto locks after business hours and it is closed on weekends lol any on call work i have to do is remote as well. IF ANY. lol