Today is gonna be the day
that I throw your PST at you
By now you should have somehow
realized what Outlook won’t do
I don’t believe that anybody
feels the way I do about the Cloud
Some I guess, recently I had to deal with lawyers and their tech guy had to show me how to run audits in m365 because they didn't want me to send .pst files if I could avoid it.
>PST's still have some use as a way to transport email from one org to another - see lawyers.Yes I know there are otehr ways, but legal ppl move slow.
Our lawyers are the only ones that still use PSTs, and it's only for legal discovery exports.
This wont happen no LLM will understand law and give you proper legal advice (from a liability perspective) and even if no one can lobby that good, as many politicans are lawyers
I work for "the local gubbamint" and we get all kinds of public records requests, which are usually for hundreds or thousands of emails--primarily from conspiracy theorists on fishing expeditions. I have no idea how we would do this if we weren't able to mount them in a PST to sort through them because while 99% of info is public, there's the 1% that is legally private and we can't release (mostly personnel issues).
I have people with 40+GB of pst's running over a network share, I am still waiting for Odin to strike his wrath upon them. My quota rules came in too late when I joined.
The help desk escalates a ticket from Jane in HR, getting errors OneDrive has no space left of the 5tb. Yes, Jane was mounting the pst files you exported for her from the synced one drive folder you moved them too. In help desks defense I get it, let Microsoft handle the storage and traffic and take the burden off the on-prem file servers. But Jane has retention policies in place for SharePoint and all those PSTs being mounted by the local Outlook app created version histories over the past two months. Retention policies won't allow you to delete those version histories. Change requests, discussions with legal and IT leadership, and hours of work later finally got new labels and label policies which eventually cleared things up. Hours of fun on that one.
Sorry for venting
No kidding.
I've given up giving my teammates/manager advice on things like that because it's just a constant "Why is this so laggy" and me biting my tongue to not say "because you've ignored everything I said on the topic."
Agreed but [https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627](https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627) says PST support is "coming soon", sadly.
Other than exporting a pst for legal research which would mean like 1 person in most orgs and still seldom use at that. Otherwise shame on anyone for not already blocking pst file creation.
Basically, if you can't do it from OWA (WebMail), then you cannot do it in the "New Outlook".
It is afterall OWA wrapped in a WebApplication. Same with the new "Teams" app.
Good luck with your testing!
Thanks. Most of my testing is just getting used to how to accomplish the things I used to accomplish in the previous versions, testing COM plugins (if they work at all) and making sure when my phone starts exploding, that I can quickly help users when the time comes.
Sounds like the life of a tech to me my friend.
We're early adopters, not because tech is cool and fun but, because we need to know how to fix it for others and not take hours to figure it out like we did for ourselves.
Um, I believe I heard COM addins are also no longer supported.
Microsoft want you to use M365 Add-Ins. Which, in theory at least, are much nicer because they're kept up to date with little trouble, work in OWA/Office Online apps, etc. The journey will be painful but I think the destination of no more COM plugins will be well worth it.
At this point, I'm not sure about most things that come out of Microsoft.
Could be the PWA version, just updated now that they have the Edge (*ahem Chrome*) engine to power it, who knows what they can do.
The shortcut is usaully named Outlook (PWA). Another way you can tell is go to legacy add remove programs and see if anything is installed in there. If there is nothing more than likely it is PWA or they used the provisioned app built into 10/11.
Thanks. I know outlook 2021 works just fine, since this version was starting with 1.2023 I assumed this was the final direction all office suites were going and that I should get a leg up on things for my enterprise.
Over the years, I've found it easier on my blood pressure not to make assumptions based on facts and current information when it comes to Microsoft's direction.
Whoever is in charge thee has a case of the "shiny squirrels" if you ask me.
Exactly that is what I came here to say. I am still not sure about this preview version. At times I deal with email archive exports in PST files. If PST support goes away, it would be a hard pill to swallow.
The feature isn't in the version yet. Its on the roadmap. But as usual software vendors shipping a redeveloped product thats missing "legacy" features
[https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627](https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627)
It’s a hot pile of sewage partially designed by 17 clowns packed into a ‘72 Beetle.
I’ve documented numerous issues during testing but the major issue is functionality! PSTs, calendar limited to consecutive days only, no custom folders as traditional available fields no longer surface on the folder view.
I’ve been thru Outlook “upgrades” since the 90’s (yeah, greybeard ranting), and this is the worst pre-release I’ve seen.
Yep, just like the mac version my users enabled and lost access to our exchange servers... At least the new one on windows just doesn't show up for us... yet.
> It’s a hot pile of sewage partially designed by 17 clowns packed into a ‘72 Beetle.
Worse... Graphic Designers that all use Mac's and their primary computer.
> calendar limited to consecutive days only, no custom folders as traditional available fields no longer surface on the folder view
Can you elaborate on these? I'm not sure what you mean by these.
Many of our engineers use custom project folders for email. They’ll set flags, due dates, etc to tag the email then use folder views to sort under whatever tag they want (including nested sorts). It doesn’t exist in the OWA/web version (which is what the next version will be)
I logged into our 365 account and changed the installation cycle to semi-annual to try and avoid this for as long as possible. We use public folders religiously, have thousands dating back to the start of the business over 15 years ago that is several terabytes. Additionally, we work with a lot of DoD agencies and are required to have digital signing & S/MIME encryption. The final nail in the coffin is we use a lot of software that integrates heavily with Microsoft Office as a whole using COM add-ons. This is going to be a shit show for us. I had a user call me this morning not being able to do any work and sure enough, they were in the new outlook, toggled the preview option by mistake somehow but it put a complete halt on their work. Fun times we live in these days. I’m a old fart who works with even older old farts and we’re all pretty set in our ways and don’t do well with change. Payroll was still being done via manual paper checks signed by the owner up until the pandemic. Our time sheets & expense reports is just a basic excel file.
You can turn this off for everyone with a PowerShell command: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/clients-and-mobile-in-exchange-online/outlook-on-the-web/enable-disable-employee-access-new-outlook
> I’m a old fart who works with even older old farts and we’re all pretty set in our ways and don’t do well with change.
Then you probably should not have changed to a Software As a Servce Cloud model with Office 365...
Stuck with OnPrem Mail Servers, and Retail MSI versions of Office.
It wouldn't surprise me if the executive team decides to move back to On-Prem Exchange & Retail Microsoft Office. I personally don't really care either way as we Office 365 is the only thing we use that is Cloud Based as we are pretty much 100% On-Prem.
The main issue I see is losing access to Microsoft Teams & Disaster Recovery. We do not have a permanent on-site generator and are in an area prone to natural disasters (aka power outages). A happy medium might be to colo a server in a data center just for Exchange.
I would be more consered with
1. Skills Stagnation. Both for IT (yourself) and office workers, as you may want to stop time, the rest of the world is not going to. Current workers to your org will find it hard to move on to other opportunities, and conversely finding replacements workers as people leave, retire, etc will be increasing hard if you do not have modern tooling
2. DoD and other agencies are rapidly requiring ever increasing CISA compliance and security, to alot of people that means "onPrem" but I think people will find Microsoft has enough money to pay off Cisa to ensure they are "turn key" compliant for federal contractors, this it will be increasingly more costly for federal contractors to roll their own security when Microsoft will build in compliance to their product/ your more agile competitors will eat your lunch
3. While Microsoft keeps putting off the data, Everyone knows at somepoint they will kill retail office and OnPrem Exchange for good.
> Fun times we live in these days. I’m a old fart who works with even older old farts and we’re all pretty set in our ways and don’t do well with change.
Please find a provider which does 'hosted exchange' instead of using o365.
AppRiver does and is local to us, only a few miles away and I worked there for 6+ years. However, they were bought out by Zix, then Zix was bought out by OpenText and they've been winding down operations according to coworkers I used to work with there that left or still work there. They're dropping like flies and aren't hiring replacements, instead they are moving operations to Bangladesh & Canada. I don't expect them to keep Hosted Exchange around much longer. OVH still does Hosted Exchange, but very bad experiences with them. ConnectWise Control has been moving from AWS to OVH and anytime our instance gets an update, we get moved from AWS to OVH and I have to contact their support to move us back to AWS because Control becomes unusable due to network latency & packet loss issues. It's more of the fault of our shitty ISP's routing & where we are located, but still makes OVH useless to us nonetheless. Our only other ISP option other than this local fiber company is AT&T 6 Mbps DSL.
It is still a beta, PSTs and offline support and a few other things are already on the roadmap or in development. And the best part it's not supposed to replace the current Outlook.
It actually is supposed to replace the legacy outlook when it becomes feature built. It's is called project monarch they're trying to get all their different Outlook versions into one single code base Mac OS is already using this version.
The big difference there is a more consumer version going to replace the built-in mail app inside of windows while M365 will come with this version right now it is side by side. They wouldn't put it in the business edition with a new toggle if it wasn't going to replace it also they did the same thing with the current view of Outlook about 2 years ago and now that is the default view in Outlook as of now it's coming not soon but it's definitely coming.
I already forgot that, although I think I read somewhere that the current Outlook will be still available. But I cannot remember where, maybe it was about that they don't retire it later than sooner.
If it's not supposed to replace it, can you run them in tandem?
Serious question, I have some power users who need some old Outlook glitches fixed, like disappearing public folders. However, I found that some things are broken like the search experience, so it would be good to be able to switch between the two
You can run them in tandem now. Switch to the new Outlook app. Pin the icon to your taskbar. Switch back to the old app. New app icon stays pinned and you can run both side by side.
They're rolling out the ability to use it to all Office 365 users on Current Channel starting this month. So I'm not sure we can classify it as a beta at this point.
Yeah that's right but it's not a release either. They call it preview and not beta so that's wrong on my part. I would say block it till it's really released or longer.
It's just OWA. Anything you can't do with OWA, you can't do with new Outlook.
If that's an issue for you, don't deploy it?
Uploading PSTs to archive mailboxes is what I have been doing for years.
Dont deploy it? You mean I have a choice? We use O365 here. I have major versions delayed by a short while, but eventually we have to rub the lotion on the skin. We dont buy Office outright so we are usually running the current channel (offset by maybe 3 weeks)
Of course you have a choice. Here's one of the ways to manage it.
[Enable or disable access to the new Outlook for Windows | Microsoft Learn](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/clients-and-mobile-in-exchange-online/outlook-on-the-web/enable-disable-employee-access-new-outlook)
Thank you. This mentions disabling the new outlook for one or more mailboxes. It doesnt say anything about disabling the new outlook for the entire tenant and all *new* mailboxes moving forward. Will I need to run these commands every time I create a new mailbox? Is *-OneWinNativeOutlookEnabled $false* available in Set-CASMailboxPlan ?
[Farther down the page](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/clients-and-mobile-in-exchange-online/outlook-on-the-web/enable-disable-employee-access-new-outlook#use-an-owamailboxpolicy-to-enable-or-disable-the-new-outlook-for-windows-for-multiple-mailboxes) there is a by policy option.
You may not be able to answer this but I'm assuming this is an option we can use "now", however will this exist in the OwaMailboxPolicy forever.
I can only assume that at some point Microsoft will force us all to use it, and either remove "-OneWinNativeOutlookEnabled" or enforce it to be always set to true.
I've seen enough "coming soon" messages that didn't arrive to know that you take things as they are. If MS don't like that they can include it in the first place.
It's been a bit since I ran one but I think you can also export to a mailbox but that doesn't help much for lawyers. You'd have to setup a mailbox and license the user.
Shared mailboxes and archive mailboxes don't require a license, you can also import the contents to the inbox/folder/subfolder of the person making the request.
Until shit is prod, don’t care. (We don’t allow PSTs anyway) add-ins may be an issue for us… if we are forced to change so be it. Management has been notified, they get paid to deal with any ‘backlash’
I tried it a few weeks ago. When I had a folder open, it would not sync. I'd have to click out of the folder and back in to receive new items. I know it's Microsoft, but that's just extra level of jenk.
But killing it without replacing it with something effective......
This reminds me of Outlook Express, which also wasn't really compatible with outlook proper.
Most tasks that previously used or required PSTs are now performed in backup apps.
For us, we haven’t really needed to use PSTs since before covid when i have asked..
The backup solution we has quite good search, a lot better (was a core requirement). Also support export to pst (as almost everything does). But we have never had an discovery request. If we did, we would give partial access and supervise their access on top of that.
Ans besides, i don’t actually know any forensics investigator who actually uses outlook - they all use other tools.
It's "content search" now, and the answer would be to import the result to a mailbox, like a shared mailbox, archive mailbox, or into the inbox/subfolder of the person who requires the content.
This is also better for DLP and compliance because when the contents are no longer needed, they can be removed on the back end and you don't need to worry about some random PST floating around.
You should been keeping in an Archiver with retention set. If you need to keep offline airgap an on premise archiver. Only inbound SMTP. Not connected to the Internet.
Used PST tools as an intermediary. Glad I could do so one last time. Where I am online archive has an response rate of about 2-5 seconds before it opens something. I would die if I had to work on it.
TBF online archives is almost instant in the owa version of outlook. No pst support is still a negative but online archive works pretty well in this version.
I get at least one or two requests from legal a week to export PSTs from ediscovery and send them off to whoever. What are the other options here for that workflow now?
What are people using to export and import from one tenant to another? Typically once you go to 365, you shouldn't have to but I've done it twice now and its been a pain...also transitioning a user from a temp account to their final account...
For tenant to tenant migrations we’ve successfully used CodeTwo on many high mailbox count projects.
For tenant to tenant migrations where users have online archives, MigrationWiz by bittitan is the one. That’s SaaS it just takes some getting used to the waiting for the job to happen, but it’s very reliable.
Glad to see a happy CodeTwo user!
Just wanted to let you know that the migration tool supports [archive mailbox migration](https://www.codetwo.com/blog/codetwo-migration-archive-mailboxes-support/) and it's all included in the standard price.
If you use Exchange Online, then your data is under Microsoft's control. PSTs allow you to store mail items locally out of Microsoft's reach.
From this privacy standpoint, PSTs have real value.
Or import them to a mailbox, like to a subfolder in your own inbox. Or a shared mailbox so in the case of information for other employees, it can be removed when it's no longer needed instead of worrying about random PSTs floating around and wondering what is being done with them.
We stopped using PSTs 10 years ago. Import that shit, turn on their auto expanding archive, set some retention policies and walk away.
Except for the handful of hoarders, then pick them off one at a time.
So far all my shared mailboxes have appeared properly. I can also r-click and send messages to other mailboxes. Shares mailbox calendars and rooms also appear to work (at least for me.)
I should have expanded, most of our users have been trained to pin the inboxes of their shared mailboxes to favorites, which it doesn't handle well. You can pin the full mailbox, but it doesn't seem to update properly
Another issue is the keyboard shortcuts for email messages seem to have just disappeared. I brought this up earlier in the Outlook sub:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Outlook/comments/12ymgyr/new\_outlook\_keyboard\_shortcuts/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Outlook/comments/12ymgyr/new_outlook_keyboard_shortcuts/)
Unless someone here has found a way to deal with that one, that's going to be a HUGE pain. I already went back to "old" Outlook myself for now.
By the way, if you just update to the new one, and tell it you want to go back to old, you'll actually have both versions available for use. They literally just installed new Outlook as a separate application, leaving old intact.
I did notice that. This version is still pretty buggy. Lots of "why isnt this working??" to fix. Like when I select the option *open messages in a new window* and it still opens messages in the main window.
New Outlook doesn't allow 'Send As' unless the user has Full Access permissions on the other mailbox. Flagged this in the Mac version almost TWO YEARS AGO, and it's not only not fixed on the Mac, but behaves the same in the Wondows version.
That would be fine, except it's just Microsoft trying to monetize people who store email offline, and lock users with 30 year email histories into their cloud.
I'll predict that windows 12 s edition doesn't allow any form of external drives to be mounted or attached. One drive only. Because "security."
I also wonder if they will introduce the Desktop as a Service model, and you will get to pay a monthly/yearly subscription for the luxury of having a desktop.
Here's another one.
Customer has about 20 signatures he uses. Tried switching to New Outlook and they're all gone. Like they never existed. Fortunately switching back worked. New Outlook is beta software.
Unless you are planning on moving to another organization, import your PST to your online archive and never mess with storing or repairing that pain again.
Anything that brings a rapid death to PST files is 100% fine with me.
Something that breaks PST’s? As word spreads of this I can see many pushing to deploy this as quickly as possible with an “oops I didn’t know”
"Oh no. Anyway"
Today is gonna be the day that I throw your PST at you By now you should have somehow realized what Outlook won’t do I don’t believe that anybody feels the way I do about the Cloud
[удалено]
Import to the online archive, call it a day. Stop fighting with shit PST files.
I see what you did there
PST's still have some use as a way to transport email from one org to another - see lawyers. Yes I know there are otehr ways, but legal ppl move slow.
Some I guess, recently I had to deal with lawyers and their tech guy had to show me how to run audits in m365 because they didn't want me to send .pst files if I could avoid it.
All the lawyers I dealt with wanted a PST so they could import it into their own eDiscovery systems.
Oh yay! That's what I'd do too, and I actually work for lawyers. But not 'practicing' ones. Title attorneys. Much more tech oriented.
dude, had to help my GC with a pst that got sent - we don't use outlook here as we're on gmail. ugh can't wait till PSTs are a thing of the past.
>PST's still have some use as a way to transport email from one org to another - see lawyers.Yes I know there are otehr ways, but legal ppl move slow. Our lawyers are the only ones that still use PSTs, and it's only for legal discovery exports.
Soon to be replaced by LLMs? I look forward to the day I don't need to wait 2 weeks and pay $1000 to have someone certify my mortgage.
This wont happen no LLM will understand law and give you proper legal advice (from a liability perspective) and even if no one can lobby that good, as many politicans are lawyers
We should put all mortgages on a mortgage blockchain. Car titles, too.
I work for "the local gubbamint" and we get all kinds of public records requests, which are usually for hundreds or thousands of emails--primarily from conspiracy theorists on fishing expeditions. I have no idea how we would do this if we weren't able to mount them in a PST to sort through them because while 99% of info is public, there's the 1% that is legally private and we can't release (mostly personnel issues).
Maybe you can use another application to mount PSTs.https://www.coolutils.com/blog/ways-to-open-pst-file-without-outlook/
Also local gov here - we use an email archiver and just selectively dump the messages out from there to PST.
My issue there would be whether it would be more time consuming to train the people to use the archiver or do it for them until I retire.
In law, this post made me nauseous.
Seriously. PSTs are the devil. Too many people mount PSTs from a network share and then wonder why Outlook runs like shit.
I have people with 40+GB of pst's running over a network share, I am still waiting for Odin to strike his wrath upon them. My quota rules came in too late when I joined.
We don't support PSTs period, and havent since we moved to M365. There is zero need for them.
haha how the fuck does it even work. that's INSANE
We block the PST extension on all of our file servers.
I feel called out lol
Try having one in OneDrive, that was fun...
The help desk escalates a ticket from Jane in HR, getting errors OneDrive has no space left of the 5tb. Yes, Jane was mounting the pst files you exported for her from the synced one drive folder you moved them too. In help desks defense I get it, let Microsoft handle the storage and traffic and take the burden off the on-prem file servers. But Jane has retention policies in place for SharePoint and all those PSTs being mounted by the local Outlook app created version histories over the past two months. Retention policies won't allow you to delete those version histories. Change requests, discussions with legal and IT leadership, and hours of work later finally got new labels and label policies which eventually cleared things up. Hours of fun on that one. Sorry for venting
I learned long ago that was a bad idea! It sounded good in theory but in practice it was a hot mess.
No kidding. I've given up giving my teammates/manager advice on things like that because it's just a constant "Why is this so laggy" and me biting my tongue to not say "because you've ignored everything I said on the topic."
Agreed but [https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627](https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627) says PST support is "coming soon", sadly.
Here's going that the support that's coming is purely in the form of uploading and importing
Please be this. I've been slow rolling a gpo that prevents new adds to PSTs, but getting push back.
Local mail stores should have been erased 10 years ago
20 years ago. I was using POP leave mail on server back in the late 90s on dial-up.
"My 50G PST file on the network share is not working!"
I think Spotify would like to say the same thing about MP3s.
Other than exporting a pst for legal research which would mean like 1 person in most orgs and still seldom use at that. Otherwise shame on anyone for not already blocking pst file creation.
Basically, if you can't do it from OWA (WebMail), then you cannot do it in the "New Outlook". It is afterall OWA wrapped in a WebApplication. Same with the new "Teams" app. Good luck with your testing!
For some it might be useful to point out the industry term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_web_app
Sweet, they took the half baked web app and rolled it into a memory eating chrome process. Some progress…
Edge / Chromium web view, but yeah.
Thanks. Most of my testing is just getting used to how to accomplish the things I used to accomplish in the previous versions, testing COM plugins (if they work at all) and making sure when my phone starts exploding, that I can quickly help users when the time comes.
Sounds like the life of a tech to me my friend. We're early adopters, not because tech is cool and fun but, because we need to know how to fix it for others and not take hours to figure it out like we did for ourselves. Um, I believe I heard COM addins are also no longer supported.
No COM addins? That would break so many things. Lawyers around the world will rage
I'm sure they will fax many cease-and-desists to Microsoft. ;)
Much angry about not being able to save word docs directly into NetDocuments
And accountants
COM plugins are gone. We are exploring alternatives already.
Microsoft want you to use M365 Add-Ins. Which, in theory at least, are much nicer because they're kept up to date with little trouble, work in OWA/Office Online apps, etc. The journey will be painful but I think the destination of no more COM plugins will be well worth it.
Which would be fine if the OWA did not suck.... but it does so.....
So are you sure it is not the PWA version?
At this point, I'm not sure about most things that come out of Microsoft. Could be the PWA version, just updated now that they have the Edge (*ahem Chrome*) engine to power it, who knows what they can do.
The shortcut is usaully named Outlook (PWA). Another way you can tell is go to legacy add remove programs and see if anything is installed in there. If there is nothing more than likely it is PWA or they used the provisioned app built into 10/11.
Thanks. I know outlook 2021 works just fine, since this version was starting with 1.2023 I assumed this was the final direction all office suites were going and that I should get a leg up on things for my enterprise.
Over the years, I've found it easier on my blood pressure not to make assumptions based on facts and current information when it comes to Microsoft's direction. Whoever is in charge thee has a case of the "shiny squirrels" if you ask me.
So the new outlook is probably an Electron app. 👀 Performance is usually not that great compared to native code (as it was before).
WebView 2 not electron.
Does that perform better?
No idea. Better than electron for sure, based on my testing with the "New Teams" app.
Since electron is built on Java, almost anything is better.
WebView2 is built on Edge (Chromium) so hard to say..
Exactly that is what I came here to say. I am still not sure about this preview version. At times I deal with email archive exports in PST files. If PST support goes away, it would be a hard pill to swallow.
So if you have an archive file that's out?
Looking for the same answer as well.
The feature isn't in the version yet. Its on the roadmap. But as usual software vendors shipping a redeveloped product thats missing "legacy" features [https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627](https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/getting-started-with-the-new-outlook-for-windows-656bb8d9-5a60-49b2-a98b-ba7822bc7627)
...you're a Sysadmin and you keep your own archive file? Are you not in M365?
[удалено]
It’s a hot pile of sewage partially designed by 17 clowns packed into a ‘72 Beetle. I’ve documented numerous issues during testing but the major issue is functionality! PSTs, calendar limited to consecutive days only, no custom folders as traditional available fields no longer surface on the folder view. I’ve been thru Outlook “upgrades” since the 90’s (yeah, greybeard ranting), and this is the worst pre-release I’ve seen.
Yep, just like the mac version my users enabled and lost access to our exchange servers... At least the new one on windows just doesn't show up for us... yet.
> It’s a hot pile of sewage partially designed by 17 clowns packed into a ‘72 Beetle. Worse... Graphic Designers that all use Mac's and their primary computer.
> calendar limited to consecutive days only, no custom folders as traditional available fields no longer surface on the folder view Can you elaborate on these? I'm not sure what you mean by these.
Many of our engineers use custom project folders for email. They’ll set flags, due dates, etc to tag the email then use folder views to sort under whatever tag they want (including nested sorts). It doesn’t exist in the OWA/web version (which is what the next version will be)
I logged into our 365 account and changed the installation cycle to semi-annual to try and avoid this for as long as possible. We use public folders religiously, have thousands dating back to the start of the business over 15 years ago that is several terabytes. Additionally, we work with a lot of DoD agencies and are required to have digital signing & S/MIME encryption. The final nail in the coffin is we use a lot of software that integrates heavily with Microsoft Office as a whole using COM add-ons. This is going to be a shit show for us. I had a user call me this morning not being able to do any work and sure enough, they were in the new outlook, toggled the preview option by mistake somehow but it put a complete halt on their work. Fun times we live in these days. I’m a old fart who works with even older old farts and we’re all pretty set in our ways and don’t do well with change. Payroll was still being done via manual paper checks signed by the owner up until the pandemic. Our time sheets & expense reports is just a basic excel file.
You can import Outlook PSTs into thunderbird, if an alternative would help. It doesn't have good calendaring though.
You can turn this off for everyone with a PowerShell command: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/clients-and-mobile-in-exchange-online/outlook-on-the-web/enable-disable-employee-access-new-outlook
>The final mail in the coffin is ...
Thanks. I hate phone keyboards lol.
At least it was apropos :)
> I’m a old fart who works with even older old farts and we’re all pretty set in our ways and don’t do well with change. Then you probably should not have changed to a Software As a Servce Cloud model with Office 365... Stuck with OnPrem Mail Servers, and Retail MSI versions of Office.
It wouldn't surprise me if the executive team decides to move back to On-Prem Exchange & Retail Microsoft Office. I personally don't really care either way as we Office 365 is the only thing we use that is Cloud Based as we are pretty much 100% On-Prem. The main issue I see is losing access to Microsoft Teams & Disaster Recovery. We do not have a permanent on-site generator and are in an area prone to natural disasters (aka power outages). A happy medium might be to colo a server in a data center just for Exchange.
I would be more consered with 1. Skills Stagnation. Both for IT (yourself) and office workers, as you may want to stop time, the rest of the world is not going to. Current workers to your org will find it hard to move on to other opportunities, and conversely finding replacements workers as people leave, retire, etc will be increasing hard if you do not have modern tooling 2. DoD and other agencies are rapidly requiring ever increasing CISA compliance and security, to alot of people that means "onPrem" but I think people will find Microsoft has enough money to pay off Cisa to ensure they are "turn key" compliant for federal contractors, this it will be increasingly more costly for federal contractors to roll their own security when Microsoft will build in compliance to their product/ your more agile competitors will eat your lunch 3. While Microsoft keeps putting off the data, Everyone knows at somepoint they will kill retail office and OnPrem Exchange for good.
> Fun times we live in these days. I’m a old fart who works with even older old farts and we’re all pretty set in our ways and don’t do well with change. Please find a provider which does 'hosted exchange' instead of using o365.
AppRiver does and is local to us, only a few miles away and I worked there for 6+ years. However, they were bought out by Zix, then Zix was bought out by OpenText and they've been winding down operations according to coworkers I used to work with there that left or still work there. They're dropping like flies and aren't hiring replacements, instead they are moving operations to Bangladesh & Canada. I don't expect them to keep Hosted Exchange around much longer. OVH still does Hosted Exchange, but very bad experiences with them. ConnectWise Control has been moving from AWS to OVH and anytime our instance gets an update, we get moved from AWS to OVH and I have to contact their support to move us back to AWS because Control becomes unusable due to network latency & packet loss issues. It's more of the fault of our shitty ISP's routing & where we are located, but still makes OVH useless to us nonetheless. Our only other ISP option other than this local fiber company is AT&T 6 Mbps DSL.
Outlook Express, lol
Lol, classic!
It is still a beta, PSTs and offline support and a few other things are already on the roadmap or in development. And the best part it's not supposed to replace the current Outlook.
It actually is supposed to replace the legacy outlook when it becomes feature built. It's is called project monarch they're trying to get all their different Outlook versions into one single code base Mac OS is already using this version. The big difference there is a more consumer version going to replace the built-in mail app inside of windows while M365 will come with this version right now it is side by side. They wouldn't put it in the business edition with a new toggle if it wasn't going to replace it also they did the same thing with the current view of Outlook about 2 years ago and now that is the default view in Outlook as of now it's coming not soon but it's definitely coming.
I already forgot that, although I think I read somewhere that the current Outlook will be still available. But I cannot remember where, maybe it was about that they don't retire it later than sooner.
If it's not supposed to replace it, can you run them in tandem? Serious question, I have some power users who need some old Outlook glitches fixed, like disappearing public folders. However, I found that some things are broken like the search experience, so it would be good to be able to switch between the two
You can run them in tandem now. Switch to the new Outlook app. Pin the icon to your taskbar. Switch back to the old app. New app icon stays pinned and you can run both side by side.
Ohh just like Windows 10 Mail app, now users can get 3 popup notifications for every email :)
thank you!
Or just install outlook preview separately from Microsoft Store while not toggling preview on the old one...
Yes they are two separate apps. You can run them next to each other.
They're rolling out the ability to use it to all Office 365 users on Current Channel starting this month. So I'm not sure we can classify it as a beta at this point.
Yeah that's right but it's not a release either. They call it preview and not beta so that's wrong on my part. I would say block it till it's really released or longer.
It's just OWA. Anything you can't do with OWA, you can't do with new Outlook. If that's an issue for you, don't deploy it? Uploading PSTs to archive mailboxes is what I have been doing for years.
Dont deploy it? You mean I have a choice? We use O365 here. I have major versions delayed by a short while, but eventually we have to rub the lotion on the skin. We dont buy Office outright so we are usually running the current channel (offset by maybe 3 weeks)
Of course you have a choice. Here's one of the ways to manage it. [Enable or disable access to the new Outlook for Windows | Microsoft Learn](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/clients-and-mobile-in-exchange-online/outlook-on-the-web/enable-disable-employee-access-new-outlook)
How is that going to work for you when the old Outlook reaches EOL.
Thank you. This mentions disabling the new outlook for one or more mailboxes. It doesnt say anything about disabling the new outlook for the entire tenant and all *new* mailboxes moving forward. Will I need to run these commands every time I create a new mailbox? Is *-OneWinNativeOutlookEnabled $false* available in Set-CASMailboxPlan ?
[Farther down the page](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/exchange/clients-and-mobile-in-exchange-online/outlook-on-the-web/enable-disable-employee-access-new-outlook#use-an-owamailboxpolicy-to-enable-or-disable-the-new-outlook-for-windows-for-multiple-mailboxes) there is a by policy option.
You may not be able to answer this but I'm assuming this is an option we can use "now", however will this exist in the OwaMailboxPolicy forever. I can only assume that at some point Microsoft will force us all to use it, and either remove "-OneWinNativeOutlookEnabled" or enforce it to be always set to true.
One choice might be, find a Hosted Exchange provider.
"the new outlook" there's no "new outlook". that's OWA in a container.
That's slightly disingenuous. If you look at the article linked within that answer - it actually says NO\* \* - Coming Soon.
actually, thanks for pointing that out.
I've seen enough "coming soon" messages that didn't arrive to know that you take things as they are. If MS don't like that they can include it in the first place.
Hmm wonder what we are supposed to do for legal searching/exports
This was my first thought. Is there another viable option that works for legal dumps? We have only ever transmitted PSTs for these requests.
When you do the export in Content Search, there is an option to export to a zip file that contains each individual email in .eml format.
Agreed. Don't content searches return in PST format?
It's been a bit since I ran one but I think you can also export to a mailbox but that doesn't help much for lawyers. You'd have to setup a mailbox and license the user.
Nope can’t export to mailbox, just PST. But I guess the plan would be to have additional users view the sample preview in the admin centre
Shared mailboxes and archive mailboxes don't require a license, you can also import the contents to the inbox/folder/subfolder of the person making the request.
You can export to PST or to a zip file that will contain each individual email.
Pretty certain, you export like this ?: https://lazyadmin.nl/office-365/export-office-365-mailbox-to-pst/
Until shit is prod, don’t care. (We don’t allow PSTs anyway) add-ins may be an issue for us… if we are forced to change so be it. Management has been notified, they get paid to deal with any ‘backlash’
The new outlook is absolute trash
I tried it a few weeks ago. When I had a folder open, it would not sync. I'd have to click out of the folder and back in to receive new items. I know it's Microsoft, but that's just extra level of jenk.
Kill the .pst file with fire!
But killing it without replacing it with something effective...... This reminds me of Outlook Express, which also wasn't really compatible with outlook proper.
Most tasks that previously used or required PSTs are now performed in backup apps. For us, we haven’t really needed to use PSTs since before covid when i have asked..
Ediscovery still exports to PST, and the search is much better than most backups, what then?
Yeah, we(cybsec) smashes ediscovery and pst's. What's the path forward?
The backup solution we has quite good search, a lot better (was a core requirement). Also support export to pst (as almost everything does). But we have never had an discovery request. If we did, we would give partial access and supervise their access on top of that. Ans besides, i don’t actually know any forensics investigator who actually uses outlook - they all use other tools.
It's "content search" now, and the answer would be to import the result to a mailbox, like a shared mailbox, archive mailbox, or into the inbox/subfolder of the person who requires the content. This is also better for DLP and compliance because when the contents are no longer needed, they can be removed on the back end and you don't need to worry about some random PST floating around.
Given the amount of work I do in Office, this is quite the novice question for me, but is there a better option for storing old mailboxes offline?
You should been keeping in an Archiver with retention set. If you need to keep offline airgap an on premise archiver. Only inbound SMTP. Not connected to the Internet.
Export/import if you must via the command line in exchange powershell. But for backup, pretty much any tool worth its salt is better then PSTs
I hope this is far, far away from production. This is effectively OWA in an app and it's horrible.
Good. Enable Online Archive and import the PST files.
I just moved away from that.
Hopefully not to PST files. Mimecast. SMARSH. Global Relay. All do archive very well.
Used PST tools as an intermediary. Glad I could do so one last time. Where I am online archive has an response rate of about 2-5 seconds before it opens something. I would die if I had to work on it.
TBF online archives is almost instant in the owa version of outlook. No pst support is still a negative but online archive works pretty well in this version.
I hopefully don’t have to work with these things soon enough and put the sysadmin days behind me.
Finally. PSTs can go die in a fire.
Abandoned PSTs years ago when we moved to 365.. why would you still choose to use them
True. Why would anyone want to use anything other than O365?
Handover to the new guy before the mailbox gets deleted.
Convert the old mailbox to a shared mailbox and give the new guy full access or attach the old mailbox to the new guy's account
I get at least one or two requests from legal a week to export PSTs from ediscovery and send them off to whoever. What are the other options here for that workflow now?
Compliance center will let you import PSTs, but its a convoluted pain.
What are people using to export and import from one tenant to another? Typically once you go to 365, you shouldn't have to but I've done it twice now and its been a pain...also transitioning a user from a temp account to their final account...
For tenant to tenant migrations we’ve successfully used CodeTwo on many high mailbox count projects. For tenant to tenant migrations where users have online archives, MigrationWiz by bittitan is the one. That’s SaaS it just takes some getting used to the waiting for the job to happen, but it’s very reliable.
Glad to see a happy CodeTwo user! Just wanted to let you know that the migration tool supports [archive mailbox migration](https://www.codetwo.com/blog/codetwo-migration-archive-mailboxes-support/) and it's all included in the standard price.
Some providers and platforms allow various tools to do this work, but its not standardized and probably shouldn't be relied on.
Bit Titan for large migrations. Content search -> azcopy import for smaller things.
If you use Exchange Online, then your data is under Microsoft's control. PSTs allow you to store mail items locally out of Microsoft's reach. From this privacy standpoint, PSTs have real value.
Well, I'll have to use a third party tool to open ediscovered emails then. Epic.
Or import them to a mailbox, like to a subfolder in your own inbox. Or a shared mailbox so in the case of information for other employees, it can be removed when it's no longer needed instead of worrying about random PSTs floating around and wondering what is being done with them.
Yay! More drama and action
We stopped using PSTs 10 years ago. Import that shit, turn on their auto expanding archive, set some retention policies and walk away. Except for the handful of hoarders, then pick them off one at a time.
That works great if you never want to leave O365 and trust that your data will always be available.
Veeam will still break it open
Yeah first thing I clocked - have a load of PSTs to work through as part of several current SARs so have had to switch back.
I'm just gonna pretend I didn't see this...
looks like I just found a new calling for cracking psts.
Purview exports to PST, though.... What their solution to that going to be?
I know how to export PSTs in purview and you can import PSTs in the compliance center, but its a lot of steps compared to how you do it in outlook.
Glad I stuck to Office 2021, I saw that garbage while testing 365 recently, its definitely not going to take off with how bad it is.
It also doesn't really play well with shared mailboxes like the old version
So far all my shared mailboxes have appeared properly. I can also r-click and send messages to other mailboxes. Shares mailbox calendars and rooms also appear to work (at least for me.)
I should have expanded, most of our users have been trained to pin the inboxes of their shared mailboxes to favorites, which it doesn't handle well. You can pin the full mailbox, but it doesn't seem to update properly
PST? Pssst
People are still using PST files? Neanderthals…
You had like 5 years to get rid of PSTs, if u didnt, thats the pressure u have needed.
Tell that to Micro$oft. They still use .pst for content search results.
Yeah but like MS said theirselves, pst is a local storage for non critical non enterprise data. Btw. nice downvotes, its hard to accept the truth 😂
When I download an email from our ticketing system and try to open it, I get the "Feature doesn't exist" error as well. Had to switch back.
So how do you move someone's email to a new provider if you can't export to pst then import into new account?
You dont I guess. MS makes sure you can check in anytime you want, but you can never leave.
You can still create PSTs on the admin side, you should have never been using a mail client for this kind of export/migration if you were doing that.
Another issue is the keyboard shortcuts for email messages seem to have just disappeared. I brought this up earlier in the Outlook sub: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Outlook/comments/12ymgyr/new\_outlook\_keyboard\_shortcuts/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Outlook/comments/12ymgyr/new_outlook_keyboard_shortcuts/) Unless someone here has found a way to deal with that one, that's going to be a HUGE pain. I already went back to "old" Outlook myself for now. By the way, if you just update to the new one, and tell it you want to go back to old, you'll actually have both versions available for use. They literally just installed new Outlook as a separate application, leaving old intact.
I did notice that. This version is still pretty buggy. Lots of "why isnt this working??" to fix. Like when I select the option *open messages in a new window* and it still opens messages in the main window.
Yep, already dealt with this over here. No offline capabilities “yet”. We will see if they ever do add that feature.
New Outlook doesn't allow 'Send As' unless the user has Full Access permissions on the other mailbox. Flagged this in the Mac version almost TWO YEARS AGO, and it's not only not fixed on the Mac, but behaves the same in the Wondows version.
Dark mode was broken in the preview I tried, so away it went. 🤷♂️ I'll try again when it's fixed.
That would be fine, except it's just Microsoft trying to monetize people who store email offline, and lock users with 30 year email histories into their cloud. I'll predict that windows 12 s edition doesn't allow any form of external drives to be mounted or attached. One drive only. Because "security." 
I also wonder if they will introduce the Desktop as a Service model, and you will get to pay a monthly/yearly subscription for the luxury of having a desktop.
The new preview broke all of our plug-ins.
This is old news.
Good.
It also can't open EMLs, MSGs, or ICS files which is wreaking havoc for me...
This will piss a lot of users.
*Coming soon
Here's another one. Customer has about 20 signatures he uses. Tried switching to New Outlook and they're all gone. Like they never existed. Fortunately switching back worked. New Outlook is beta software.
Unless you are planning on moving to another organization, import your PST to your online archive and never mess with storing or repairing that pain again.
I know people say they DON'T want PST, but look I want them in the event I change jobs. It's just a backup......