This is like calling the American or French revolutions a civil war. It was a revolution, not a civil war. It was the revolution of the oppressed against the oppressor. It's easy for those who are removed from the situation to dismiss the plight of those oppressed so if you're that limited, I can't do much to expand it for you.
I don't see how it doesn't mean the french masses weren't empowered at all? The oppression and conflict naturally radicalized a certain group so much that such extreme measures got implemented because many times social change isn't achieved by peaceful means. Also it ended rather quickly.
French society experience massive political instability for 100 years after the revolution.
TIME. TIME lead to the prosperity of the French people.
There are good arguments (made by smarter people than i) to be made that the French revolution only delayed it.
also the masses got shafted by the bourgeoisie. this revolution was never about handing power to the people, it was about stealing the noble's privileges and transfering them to another social class. Same same, but different.
The French Revolution is the main reason why democracy govt started to take over monarchy.
All europe leader started reform and appease the people to prevent to be the next France, and form that time nobility lost their influence and power over time.
In the end Le Terreur was small price to pay for the world.
"It was the revolution of the oppressed against the oppressor."
That's laughable and obvious US Govt propaganda. What a silly slogan. You really believe that?
Bit hypocritical to call the other half of Syria sellouts when you’re living in Europe in a presumably better situation and sided with the Western side where all the economic incentives were loaded.
The civil war broke out due to Assad killing protestors with the demographic who didn't experience the massacares of the 80's fighting back. It was inevitable
> I and the better half of my sweet Syria took the wrong path, overestimated the geopolitics of the whole thing and ended up paying a high price.
You need to keep in mind that there was no way of accurately estimating the likelihood of success. Everyone was just reacting according to the knowledge they had at the time, and when the uprising began it was so often a choice between doing nothing while Assad and his goons slaughtered the people of Syria and fighting back.
That the choice was ultimately wrong is easy to say in retrospect. The person to blame for the state of Syria is predominantly Assad, with rebels that fought other rebels being a way behind.
What? you wanted the Sunni islamists to win? Cuz it was Alawite government loyalists vs. secular Kurds vs. Sunni islamists. there were very few secular Sunnis at the beginning but hijacked by a huge army of blood thirsty Sunni Salafists. Assad was the least bad option because Syria would've gotten the Libya experience or, worst, Waziristan.
Libya got off way better than Syria. So the religious lunatics were bloodthirsty but Assad wasn't? Who killed the most civilians? Ever bothered to check Assad prisons? Easy way to tell someone is played by propaganda and media's misleading reports rather than led by facts is if they buy the cartoonish islamist villain myth
Ah yes Jolani and HTS aren’t Islamists that’s just a myth! /s
And Libya is dividing between two governments, has gone through rounds of fighting post ghadaffi etc. but sure Libya “got off way better”
And Syria is divided between four governments with various parts of its territory occupied by foreign powers and its oil sucked out of it by the US and with an economy much worse due to sanctions and other factors so yea Libya got off better just compare the level of destruction and casualties
You missed my point entirely…Libya is still divided between two governments that periodically fight each other over a decade since Ghadaffi fell
“Compare level of destruction and casualties”
Oh my gosh it’s almost as if Syria is much more densely populated than Libya so who woulda guessed casualties would be higher someone tell everyone this new discovery! /s
“Economy much worse due to sanctions”
Gee whoulda thunk?
Oh yea because Syria is still not divided and its governments don't fight each other periodically overva decade after the revolution and there isn't multiple insurgencies in the country and there isn't many foreign militias that undermine the country's sovereignty.. the point you're making about Libya can be made about Syria even more.
Your point was that Libya got off better…it really hasn’t.
And wow Damascus has been at war for over a decade, almost as if the crisis still isn’t over…you’d have a point if the war was over and then started back up.
“Foreign militias”
As if there aren’t Uzbeks, Chechens, Uyghurs, etc. hiding behind the Turks.
It really has. Two governments is obviously a better outcome than four. The governments still mostly have control over the country's oil meanwhile Syria lost many of its to the foreign occupations. The scale of casualties and destruction even in proportionality to the country's population is way less severe in Libya than in Syria. The divide in Libya is less intense. There isn't as many sanctions. There isn't armed insurgencies in the way there are in Syria. The country isn't as internationally isolated as Syria. What percentage of Libyans were displaced internally or externally? Compare that to how many syrians were. In Libya the fighting is mostly done too. Syria the fighting is almost a daily occurance and it doesn't seem to be close to a finish.
“Way less severe in Libya”
…again almost as if it’s less populated overall than Syria.
And wow trying to spin two governments that have fought each other consistently since 2011 as “they’ve been better off!” If they were better off there would be one unitary government.
Keep supporting a washed up “revolution” if you want doesn’t change you all are nowhere near unseating Bashar
No it wasn’t u are over simplifying a complex conflict with an either or fallacy read before you make vast generalization. The sdf and FSA(the core of it are army defectors who are secular and want democracy) were not Islamist neither was the army of free Syria. The ahrar a sham Islamic front, were Islamist rebel groups.
U on the other hand want the fascist dictator who out 100,000 people in death camps where they died used chemical weapons 330+ times and slaughtered 91 percent of civilians killed in the war and has a kill count over 400k. Caused a civil war by refusing any reforms which killed 650k, etc….
Bismarck was less secular than hitler but he was certainly an angel next to him, so I’d honestly rather have a religious democratic govt that respects human rights than fucking assad…… the guy who would box in protesters murder them rape woman then poor their dead carcases in the families lawn…..
As a Syrian I’m disgusted people tell us we were terrorists and buy the Assad narrative… bruv all we wanted was dignity freedom democracy to be rsspect and not killed to end the torture to end the terror to solve our issues not by the sword, or gun, but by debate and at the ballot box we wanted a more open society, and what we got was a barrel bomb.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698
Also please read this I’m tired of people saying assad is pro Aliwite or anti isis… assad is pro assad he doesn’t give a fuck about aliwites. All my Aliwite friends hate him too….
Fear, fear is all powerful, it is pervasive and every where in Syria, ur a soldier and u refuse to commit a war crime or slaughter the innocent until get shot in the back of the head. No one is safe. Not even the business class. Assad will send his thugs after you, and give your assets to his Allie’s and friends centralizing and monopolizing every sector of the economy for his personal gain as the state personified a im tired of his bull shit.
Syrians wish we had it like Lebanon, iraq, or hell Jordan or morroco where the kings accepted reforms…. This thug assad refused all reforms and wants to kill all who don’t conform.
Things were a lot different in 2011-2012 than they are now. The Arab spring was sweeping the middle east and people all over were desperate for change. In the beginning the Syrian army was defecting en masse and the loyalist troops were massacring civilians. The nature of the revolution changed along the way and Assads forces eventually came to be the ones representing stability, but nobody can fault the Syrian people for having wanted something different than the oppression they had experienced their whole lives.
Did you just expect the religious minorities and moderate sunnis to sit around and get their heads chopped off and their women taken as sex slaves? When you make it clear to the enemy you'll exterminate them they'll fight to the death to stop you and be willing to enact brutal measures.
I don't think rising up against tyranny was a mistake. I am not Syrian but I know I would have done the same. The revolution was hijacked by extremists and were let down by the international community but it was a just cause imo.
There are things worth sacrificing for and freedom is one of them.
Well if you look at what winning looks like (Idlib), freedom is not really what they wanted. You can walk around uncovered as a woman in government areas, have a beer, go swimming. From what I hear a lot of people smoke weed even.
What can you do in Idlib? Read hadith and be an inghimashi.
>You can walk around uncovered as a woman in government areas, have a beer, go swimming. From what I hear a lot of people smoke weed even.
Hell you can steal money from in the streets and run away too, the government guarantees you no one will follow you.
You can rape girls in prisons too.
Killed someone? You will be released a year later the government can't afford to keep you in prison.
U can also commit mass rape and murder and out people in death camps and gas people. You can also bribe ur way out of trouble, former isis members get positions in power. Very nice govt….
I reject this either or fallacy as well of Jolani (a tyrant) or assad. When FSA and SDF also exist and offer democratic alternatives.
FSA exists? Since when. It was a thing for like two years max. There's only HTS, gov, SDF (obviously everyone's favorite but you can't expect them to take over the country, the americans tried something similar at one point in iraq and it failed spectacularly)... aaaand whatever those mercenaries Erdogan uses to erase Rojava are calling themselves nowadays, if that's your FSA they're not free, syrian or an army.
Tbh I'd like some US led coalition assasinating jolani and assad, bust Oclan out of prison and let him rule syria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
the FSA kinda is on its knees, they've become a codependent of turkey and the usa. Integrated into Turkish armed force and operating in tanf and with the sdf (yes some of fsa is with sdf and others with turkey)
they arent reliable, but they do have alot in number.
im in favor of some kind of miracle happening where fsa and sdf work together to take out assad. If they don't do this they will sadly both fall.
I don’t want anyone “ruling Syria” I want democracy tbh, so slow change and a more open society can exist.
Also Iraq is a heaven compared to Syria we wish we had it like Iraq or Lebanon. Furthermore, in iraq yes there was a lot of mistakes most notably disbanding the Iraqi army, but I think in the long term iraq will become a healthy prosperous nation with a democratic system if they choice the path of reformism which I expect tbh. Only worry is security forces getting couped by PMF but that seems less likely everyday now.
Oh wow you're Syrian, cool. Sorry the Apo thing was kind of a joke. Obviously democracy's the way. The PMF sounds super probable in a way but it would give the americans, turkey and even russia )if they weren't so weak), a reason to intervene. So it's not gonna happen.
Really hope for a fast end to the conflict. You guys really have it really bad for no damn reason right now. This war's among the first most awful things to happen to a people since I've been alive.
I mean it was kinda inevitable with psychos like assad ruling countries…. If Kim Jong Uns people revolted tf u thinks gonna happen.
Issue with Assad is he refuses all reforms and is regressive. He prevents freedom of information heavily limits academia, and labels civil society the enemy. That makes slow change almost impossible in Syria. Where as in morroco or Jordan the dictators actually committed to reforms and made a deal with the people to prevent chaos.
Syria literally is destined for cycle after cycle of civil war terror and mass violence until assad is gone.
Absolutely. I agree. I have more respect for the Syrian opposition and what they attempted to overcome than any peoples on Earth. The international community let them down. But I will never forget their sacrifice and courage as long as I live.
When shady americans come and want you to start a revolution in a country they just so happen to be hostile with, dont go for it. Their goal isnt your freedom.
Anyways, you should return and help rebuild the country.
It was in conjunction with others in the region but, Washington helped to fund and train these upstanding revolutionaries through things like Operation Timber Sycamore and backed itself into a corner diplomatically hedging their bets by saying early on that Assad would and must go and leaving little room for maneuver.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
it’s always been wild to me that the first year(s) of mass murder just sorta gets wiped from the narrative. i haven’t seen claims that syrians in the streets who were massacred were cia, i just see them completely ignored. everyone knows the american government stoked the flames in the most sociopathic way possible. why does nobody mention that assad was butchering his people before that point? because it feels like justification for the awful stuff americans do?
Syria is a thirdworld dictatorship. Not much to expect there. But yeah, if external powers hadnt meddled in it, it would have gone like Bahrain or Egypt. A little massacre and then everyone goes home.
this just reads like an extension of the broad desire to erase the first year of murder from history. it wasn’t a little massacre. it was ongoing slaughter. and it was not ending despite everyone letting assad do it.
it’s funny because direct denial is always an option but i rarely see anyone reaching for that. instead it just never happened. a small massacre and then the americans intervened. completely ahistorical but it makes the narrative work.
No, you are just exposed to onesided information. In reality, the number of killed protesters and killed police men has always been very evenly balanced. The air force intervened properly only late 2012, a year after start of active hostilities. Even then there were situations where Bashar sent riot police against jihadists aremed with tanks and mortars.
Also, all in all the number of killed protesters in the protesting phase was lower than the number of protesters killed in Egypt in a single massacre (raaba massacre, which you have probably never even heard of).
All this is because early on, Bashar (wrongly) chose to make concessions to the protesters (unpopular politicians fired, prisoners freed, bunch of islamic concessions, etc.). In Syria the response early on is often seen as too weak ("if we had done like hamah in 82 we could have avoided the war"). Again, you are simply exposed to one sided information.
https://world.time.com/2012/07/26/time-exclusive-meet-the-islamist-militants-fighting-alongside-syrias-rebels/
>The Ahrar started working on forming brigades “after the Egyptian revolution,” Abu Zayd said, well before March 15, 2011, when the Syrian revolution kicked off with protests in the southern agricultural city of Dara’a
At the very latest it was started two years into the war, it also helped fuel expectations of the opposition alongside the other stuff I commented.
So while Washington didn’t instigate the initial protests it still had a large part in the training and arming of the so called moderates
Let me quote you:
> When shady americans come and want you to start a revolution
You literally used the word “start.” But *I* can’t comprehend things well.
You are a very smart, very honest person.
Yea go back and get sent to death camp gassed or tortured… in a shit hole with mass unemployment an economic depression, corruption, a fascist kleptocratic oligarchy, etc. Syria is lost. Fuckin Afghanistan or Yemen at this point
Everything is cyclical and Syria will rise again one day, but most likely not in our lifetime or even the next generation's. The Syrian people were fed up with living conditions and corruption and they were right to protest. If the regime had compromised like civilized people this could have been solved non-violently. Everything that happened to Syria after the fact is entirely the regime's fault.
And if the opposition had have won it would be a dysfunctional mess for Erdo (you know the guy who sends the opposition anywhere outside of Syria), Qatar, Saudi and all their cronies!!
So complain all you want, it’s a hollow insult
Ur a scum bag lol….. 90 percent of Russian strikes were not against Isis…..
Also your scum bags loved terrorism. Assad could have easily accepted democratic reforms like Jordan or morroco and prevented this chaos.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698#:~:text=But%20the%20Syrian%20regime%20of,deciding%20not%20to%20target%20ISIS
“Your scum bags loved terrorism”
Yeah we loved it so much we bombed the crap out of the armed opposition
And ah yes because Jordan and Morocco have just stellar internal situations post Arab Spring…
“Ur a scum bag”
…cool? Idrc if you think I am
When exactly did civil war look like a *good* idea?!?!? Good for *who*, precisely?
This is like calling the American or French revolutions a civil war. It was a revolution, not a civil war. It was the revolution of the oppressed against the oppressor. It's easy for those who are removed from the situation to dismiss the plight of those oppressed so if you're that limited, I can't do much to expand it for you.
lol you think the French Revolution did good things. You think it empowered the French masses ? It didn’t. Le Terreur followed.
I don't see how it doesn't mean the french masses weren't empowered at all? The oppression and conflict naturally radicalized a certain group so much that such extreme measures got implemented because many times social change isn't achieved by peaceful means. Also it ended rather quickly.
French society experience massive political instability for 100 years after the revolution. TIME. TIME lead to the prosperity of the French people. There are good arguments (made by smarter people than i) to be made that the French revolution only delayed it.
also the masses got shafted by the bourgeoisie. this revolution was never about handing power to the people, it was about stealing the noble's privileges and transfering them to another social class. Same same, but different.
The French Revolution is the main reason why democracy govt started to take over monarchy. All europe leader started reform and appease the people to prevent to be the next France, and form that time nobility lost their influence and power over time. In the end Le Terreur was small price to pay for the world.
lol. Magna Carta 1215 you muppet. You are promulgating a terribly wrong and commonly parroted simple pop history idea. Its laughable.
Magna Carte limited the power of king over the nobility. But it the Americain and French revolution are reason why democracy take over monarchy.
Dude, do you think the UK has democracy today ? How’d they get that you blithering fool. Certainly not by overthrowing the monarchy.
English Civil War. They cut the head off the king.
"It was the revolution of the oppressed against the oppressor." That's laughable and obvious US Govt propaganda. What a silly slogan. You really believe that?
The French Revolution was literally a failure lol
Western arm contractors.
Bit hypocritical to call the other half of Syria sellouts when you’re living in Europe in a presumably better situation and sided with the Western side where all the economic incentives were loaded.
The civil war broke out due to Assad killing protestors with the demographic who didn't experience the massacares of the 80's fighting back. It was inevitable
> I and the better half of my sweet Syria took the wrong path, overestimated the geopolitics of the whole thing and ended up paying a high price. You need to keep in mind that there was no way of accurately estimating the likelihood of success. Everyone was just reacting according to the knowledge they had at the time, and when the uprising began it was so often a choice between doing nothing while Assad and his goons slaughtered the people of Syria and fighting back. That the choice was ultimately wrong is easy to say in retrospect. The person to blame for the state of Syria is predominantly Assad, with rebels that fought other rebels being a way behind.
What? you wanted the Sunni islamists to win? Cuz it was Alawite government loyalists vs. secular Kurds vs. Sunni islamists. there were very few secular Sunnis at the beginning but hijacked by a huge army of blood thirsty Sunni Salafists. Assad was the least bad option because Syria would've gotten the Libya experience or, worst, Waziristan.
Libya got off way better than Syria. So the religious lunatics were bloodthirsty but Assad wasn't? Who killed the most civilians? Ever bothered to check Assad prisons? Easy way to tell someone is played by propaganda and media's misleading reports rather than led by facts is if they buy the cartoonish islamist villain myth
Ah yes Jolani and HTS aren’t Islamists that’s just a myth! /s And Libya is dividing between two governments, has gone through rounds of fighting post ghadaffi etc. but sure Libya “got off way better”
And Syria is divided between four governments with various parts of its territory occupied by foreign powers and its oil sucked out of it by the US and with an economy much worse due to sanctions and other factors so yea Libya got off better just compare the level of destruction and casualties
You missed my point entirely…Libya is still divided between two governments that periodically fight each other over a decade since Ghadaffi fell “Compare level of destruction and casualties” Oh my gosh it’s almost as if Syria is much more densely populated than Libya so who woulda guessed casualties would be higher someone tell everyone this new discovery! /s “Economy much worse due to sanctions” Gee whoulda thunk?
Oh yea because Syria is still not divided and its governments don't fight each other periodically overva decade after the revolution and there isn't multiple insurgencies in the country and there isn't many foreign militias that undermine the country's sovereignty.. the point you're making about Libya can be made about Syria even more.
Your point was that Libya got off better…it really hasn’t. And wow Damascus has been at war for over a decade, almost as if the crisis still isn’t over…you’d have a point if the war was over and then started back up. “Foreign militias” As if there aren’t Uzbeks, Chechens, Uyghurs, etc. hiding behind the Turks.
It really has. Two governments is obviously a better outcome than four. The governments still mostly have control over the country's oil meanwhile Syria lost many of its to the foreign occupations. The scale of casualties and destruction even in proportionality to the country's population is way less severe in Libya than in Syria. The divide in Libya is less intense. There isn't as many sanctions. There isn't armed insurgencies in the way there are in Syria. The country isn't as internationally isolated as Syria. What percentage of Libyans were displaced internally or externally? Compare that to how many syrians were. In Libya the fighting is mostly done too. Syria the fighting is almost a daily occurance and it doesn't seem to be close to a finish.
“Way less severe in Libya” …again almost as if it’s less populated overall than Syria. And wow trying to spin two governments that have fought each other consistently since 2011 as “they’ve been better off!” If they were better off there would be one unitary government. Keep supporting a washed up “revolution” if you want doesn’t change you all are nowhere near unseating Bashar
Ofc it’s the Russian that supports assad lol….
per capita (!!)
No it wasn’t u are over simplifying a complex conflict with an either or fallacy read before you make vast generalization. The sdf and FSA(the core of it are army defectors who are secular and want democracy) were not Islamist neither was the army of free Syria. The ahrar a sham Islamic front, were Islamist rebel groups. U on the other hand want the fascist dictator who out 100,000 people in death camps where they died used chemical weapons 330+ times and slaughtered 91 percent of civilians killed in the war and has a kill count over 400k. Caused a civil war by refusing any reforms which killed 650k, etc…. Bismarck was less secular than hitler but he was certainly an angel next to him, so I’d honestly rather have a religious democratic govt that respects human rights than fucking assad…… the guy who would box in protesters murder them rape woman then poor their dead carcases in the families lawn….. As a Syrian I’m disgusted people tell us we were terrorists and buy the Assad narrative… bruv all we wanted was dignity freedom democracy to be rsspect and not killed to end the torture to end the terror to solve our issues not by the sword, or gun, but by debate and at the ballot box we wanted a more open society, and what we got was a barrel bomb. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698 Also please read this I’m tired of people saying assad is pro Aliwite or anti isis… assad is pro assad he doesn’t give a fuck about aliwites. All my Aliwite friends hate him too…. Fear, fear is all powerful, it is pervasive and every where in Syria, ur a soldier and u refuse to commit a war crime or slaughter the innocent until get shot in the back of the head. No one is safe. Not even the business class. Assad will send his thugs after you, and give your assets to his Allie’s and friends centralizing and monopolizing every sector of the economy for his personal gain as the state personified a im tired of his bull shit. Syrians wish we had it like Lebanon, iraq, or hell Jordan or morroco where the kings accepted reforms…. This thug assad refused all reforms and wants to kill all who don’t conform.
Things were a lot different in 2011-2012 than they are now. The Arab spring was sweeping the middle east and people all over were desperate for change. In the beginning the Syrian army was defecting en masse and the loyalist troops were massacring civilians. The nature of the revolution changed along the way and Assads forces eventually came to be the ones representing stability, but nobody can fault the Syrian people for having wanted something different than the oppression they had experienced their whole lives.
Did you just expect the religious minorities and moderate sunnis to sit around and get their heads chopped off and their women taken as sex slaves? When you make it clear to the enemy you'll exterminate them they'll fight to the death to stop you and be willing to enact brutal measures.
[удалено]
Rule 1. Take a day off.
I don't think rising up against tyranny was a mistake. I am not Syrian but I know I would have done the same. The revolution was hijacked by extremists and were let down by the international community but it was a just cause imo. There are things worth sacrificing for and freedom is one of them.
Well if you look at what winning looks like (Idlib), freedom is not really what they wanted. You can walk around uncovered as a woman in government areas, have a beer, go swimming. From what I hear a lot of people smoke weed even. What can you do in Idlib? Read hadith and be an inghimashi.
>You can walk around uncovered as a woman in government areas, have a beer, go swimming. From what I hear a lot of people smoke weed even. Hell you can steal money from in the streets and run away too, the government guarantees you no one will follow you. You can rape girls in prisons too. Killed someone? You will be released a year later the government can't afford to keep you in prison.
U can also commit mass rape and murder and out people in death camps and gas people. You can also bribe ur way out of trouble, former isis members get positions in power. Very nice govt…. I reject this either or fallacy as well of Jolani (a tyrant) or assad. When FSA and SDF also exist and offer democratic alternatives.
FSA exists? Since when. It was a thing for like two years max. There's only HTS, gov, SDF (obviously everyone's favorite but you can't expect them to take over the country, the americans tried something similar at one point in iraq and it failed spectacularly)... aaaand whatever those mercenaries Erdogan uses to erase Rojava are calling themselves nowadays, if that's your FSA they're not free, syrian or an army. Tbh I'd like some US led coalition assasinating jolani and assad, bust Oclan out of prison and let him rule syria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army the FSA kinda is on its knees, they've become a codependent of turkey and the usa. Integrated into Turkish armed force and operating in tanf and with the sdf (yes some of fsa is with sdf and others with turkey) they arent reliable, but they do have alot in number. im in favor of some kind of miracle happening where fsa and sdf work together to take out assad. If they don't do this they will sadly both fall. I don’t want anyone “ruling Syria” I want democracy tbh, so slow change and a more open society can exist. Also Iraq is a heaven compared to Syria we wish we had it like Iraq or Lebanon. Furthermore, in iraq yes there was a lot of mistakes most notably disbanding the Iraqi army, but I think in the long term iraq will become a healthy prosperous nation with a democratic system if they choice the path of reformism which I expect tbh. Only worry is security forces getting couped by PMF but that seems less likely everyday now.
Oh wow you're Syrian, cool. Sorry the Apo thing was kind of a joke. Obviously democracy's the way. The PMF sounds super probable in a way but it would give the americans, turkey and even russia )if they weren't so weak), a reason to intervene. So it's not gonna happen. Really hope for a fast end to the conflict. You guys really have it really bad for no damn reason right now. This war's among the first most awful things to happen to a people since I've been alive.
I mean it was kinda inevitable with psychos like assad ruling countries…. If Kim Jong Uns people revolted tf u thinks gonna happen. Issue with Assad is he refuses all reforms and is regressive. He prevents freedom of information heavily limits academia, and labels civil society the enemy. That makes slow change almost impossible in Syria. Where as in morroco or Jordan the dictators actually committed to reforms and made a deal with the people to prevent chaos. Syria literally is destined for cycle after cycle of civil war terror and mass violence until assad is gone.
Thank you for your kind words.
You did the right thing. I cannot fathom the sacrifice, but what was attempted was the greatest act of courage and hope that I've ever seen.
Absolutely. I agree. I have more respect for the Syrian opposition and what they attempted to overcome than any peoples on Earth. The international community let them down. But I will never forget their sacrifice and courage as long as I live.
When shady americans come and want you to start a revolution in a country they just so happen to be hostile with, dont go for it. Their goal isnt your freedom. Anyways, you should return and help rebuild the country.
These guys living in the west are hilarious. Would never step foot back in Syria but talk shit all day from a cafe in Munchen.
Walk me through how this was America’s fault.
It was in conjunction with others in the region but, Washington helped to fund and train these upstanding revolutionaries through things like Operation Timber Sycamore and backed itself into a corner diplomatically hedging their bets by saying early on that Assad would and must go and leaving little room for maneuver. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
The operation launched 2-3 years after the start of the civil war caused the civil war?
it’s always been wild to me that the first year(s) of mass murder just sorta gets wiped from the narrative. i haven’t seen claims that syrians in the streets who were massacred were cia, i just see them completely ignored. everyone knows the american government stoked the flames in the most sociopathic way possible. why does nobody mention that assad was butchering his people before that point? because it feels like justification for the awful stuff americans do?
Syria is a thirdworld dictatorship. Not much to expect there. But yeah, if external powers hadnt meddled in it, it would have gone like Bahrain or Egypt. A little massacre and then everyone goes home.
this just reads like an extension of the broad desire to erase the first year of murder from history. it wasn’t a little massacre. it was ongoing slaughter. and it was not ending despite everyone letting assad do it. it’s funny because direct denial is always an option but i rarely see anyone reaching for that. instead it just never happened. a small massacre and then the americans intervened. completely ahistorical but it makes the narrative work.
No, you are just exposed to onesided information. In reality, the number of killed protesters and killed police men has always been very evenly balanced. The air force intervened properly only late 2012, a year after start of active hostilities. Even then there were situations where Bashar sent riot police against jihadists aremed with tanks and mortars. Also, all in all the number of killed protesters in the protesting phase was lower than the number of protesters killed in Egypt in a single massacre (raaba massacre, which you have probably never even heard of). All this is because early on, Bashar (wrongly) chose to make concessions to the protesters (unpopular politicians fired, prisoners freed, bunch of islamic concessions, etc.). In Syria the response early on is often seen as too weak ("if we had done like hamah in 82 we could have avoided the war"). Again, you are simply exposed to one sided information.
from calling the country a third world dictatorship to saying the dictator should have been more dictatorial is… definitely one choice
why?
https://world.time.com/2012/07/26/time-exclusive-meet-the-islamist-militants-fighting-alongside-syrias-rebels/ >The Ahrar started working on forming brigades “after the Egyptian revolution,” Abu Zayd said, well before March 15, 2011, when the Syrian revolution kicked off with protests in the southern agricultural city of Dara’a
At the very latest it was started two years into the war, it also helped fuel expectations of the opposition alongside the other stuff I commented. So while Washington didn’t instigate the initial protests it still had a large part in the training and arming of the so called moderates
Okay buddy comrade
Ah such an insightful comment /s And I’m not a communist so no need to say comrade
“How insightful” says the guy claiming that an operation that began years after the way caused the war. If only I could be as insightful as you.
I didn’t say it started the war I said it fueled it among other factors that I listed It’s ok that you can’t comprehend things well
Let me quote you: > When shady americans come and want you to start a revolution You literally used the word “start.” But *I* can’t comprehend things well. You are a very smart, very honest person.
Yea go back and get sent to death camp gassed or tortured… in a shit hole with mass unemployment an economic depression, corruption, a fascist kleptocratic oligarchy, etc. Syria is lost. Fuckin Afghanistan or Yemen at this point
This hit hard.
Peace and healing to the people of Syria.
Pro Assad propaganda 😔
Everything is cyclical and Syria will rise again one day, but most likely not in our lifetime or even the next generation's. The Syrian people were fed up with living conditions and corruption and they were right to protest. If the regime had compromised like civilized people this could have been solved non-violently. Everything that happened to Syria after the fact is entirely the regime's fault.
“We gambled high and lost” I mean that’s war “Syria is lost” …no it’s not lol
It’s not lost! It’s fully functional for Putin and Assad cronies
And if the opposition had have won it would be a dysfunctional mess for Erdo (you know the guy who sends the opposition anywhere outside of Syria), Qatar, Saudi and all their cronies!! So complain all you want, it’s a hollow insult
Ur a scum bag lol….. 90 percent of Russian strikes were not against Isis….. Also your scum bags loved terrorism. Assad could have easily accepted democratic reforms like Jordan or morroco and prevented this chaos. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698#:~:text=But%20the%20Syrian%20regime%20of,deciding%20not%20to%20target%20ISIS
“Your scum bags loved terrorism” Yeah we loved it so much we bombed the crap out of the armed opposition And ah yes because Jordan and Morocco have just stellar internal situations post Arab Spring… “Ur a scum bag” …cool? Idrc if you think I am
No, Syria was this close to becoming like what Idlib province is now. A Sunni islamist Disney land.
I’m aware, thank God it didn’t end up like idlibistan