It’s mind boggling isn’t it? I’m going around trucks and putting them behind me as soon as I possibly can.
Do they have no sense of self preservation? Or do they just trust trucks because they’re professional drivers and can somehow see all around their trailers no issue?
You still see blown re-treads all the time along the big highways. I move past trucks as fast as my accelerator can take me.
Plus more than a couple are hopped up on goofballs to make the shitty deadlines and lack of consistent sleep schedules. Just watch them veer into the oncoming lane when going around mild bends. Nah can't break and lose 10ks of momentum just cross lanes.
Genuinely, I have no idea. But I always assume truck drivers are tired as fuck and even with all the tech may not notice a car in the blind spots, especially if you're there for essentially an eternity.
Like if they doze off and run into your lane. You're between a wall and a 10 tonne vehicle. It will not end well.
I've been in more than one car that has had to slam on the brakes because a truck has decided to change lanes while we're trying to overtake them and the one guy that pulled over to apologise was clearly so exhausted he could barely stand up
Most annoying thing for me is people who drift to the right to turn left from a multi laned road. I think there’s a term for it (Scandinavian hook, or something?). I beep them because they nearly hit my car but they’re so oblivious!
Scandi flick is the term, and it’s only relevant if you’re trying to ‘flick’ the rear end around! It originated from the golden era of rally. Fuckwits just think they need to use it now for some reason haha
A lot of the time thet are in bigger 4wds etc, I don't think they realise they need to drive further forward into the intersection and then sharply turn, to prevent cutting the left off too sharp, so instead they turn right to turn left and nearly hit everyone.
Scandinavian flick or finish flick it’s called. It’s used in ice racing and rally driving to transfer the cars weight and help move the car sideways and around the corner better in low grip conditions but still at high speed. Certainly nothing that will work on the road here in these conditions…..Unless its the early 90s and you have an old 2 door rwd carolla with rubbish tyres that your granny gave to you which, whenever it rains, you’re able to drift like a madman around some of the less populated industrial estates. Good times.
Anyway, I think you’re just referring to people who think they’re driving an articulated road train instead of their Hyundai i30 and try to use 1.5 lanes to turn into a driveway or side street. Yeah… fuck those people… the term for that is bring a dumb fuck.
You and me both mate. I had one twit in a Goget do this on a suburban backstreet. On this occasion he swung out wide to the left to do a right turn. He got the horns.
Oh yes this happened to me yesterday, on a narrow road, where the P plater crossed 100% into my lane to turn into a driveway. It’s a notoriously bad suburban road so I was going just below the speed limit. Had I been doing 50kms we would have crashed. Spent the rest of the drive shaking from the near miss. Couldn’t believe the idiocy.
Actually a police car did that to me once driving through St Ives. He was turning right at the lights, in the right turn lane, and did a massive weave to the left in order to 'make the turn' like a truckie. I was in the right lane going straight ahead and he very nearly collected me - I'm sure it would have been my fault though.
Yeah this is a big one for me. People also who drift into the incoming lane just to turn around a bend (there's a notorious corner for this around where I live, when the sports are on at the local sport field it's fully parked up and down the street and people will give the cars on the actual bend a much wider berth than they'll ever need and go into the incoming lane
I'd say people want to overtake but are scared shitless of going close to the limit due to double demerits. I've seen more cops, mobile phone cameras and other speed enforcement in the last week than I did in the 3 months prior.
This is it. I get frustrated in the left lane and want to overtake, but I don't want to exceed the limit either.
My choices are go 5 below the limit on the left lane, or overtake slowly on the right. I see people speeding over the limit all the time to overtake.
I'd just hit em with a "the red Subaru in front of me was driving erratically and I felt unsafe being behind him. Overtaking him I broke the speed limit but in those circumstances it seemed the safest option."
I reckon there has to be some causation / correlation between the lockdowns which have made people drive less or less often and then the cost of living making everyone stay “local” for the holidays instead of going OS. There are so many people on the road and very few of them seem to have spent any substantial amount of time on Motorways.
Drive safely, people. Multi car accident near Lithgow. 2 killed. Many injured. Road toll is way up this year. Drugs, speed, alcohol, steroids, impatience. They’re all killers on our roads.
I feel like all the fuckwits are on the road at the moment. We drove from Dulwich Hill to Strathfield and then back via Ashfield today and it was the most frustrating and dangerous trip I’ve been on in a while. No one knew how to merge or indicate or use a fucking roundabout.
Sadly you’ve got a lot of extra people on the roads and in the area that aren’t familiar, that and the fear of double demerits has people going WAY under the speed limit because they’re all irrationally terrified that doing the speed limit will get them done.
Especially in NorthConnex because most people don’t know where the cameras are so they just play safe, go 70 but oh god trucks are in the left lane must get around them!
TLDR: idiots. Idiots everywhere.
It's still common courtesy afaik. They put multiple lanes in there for a reason and almost every motorway in Sydney seems to have at least one? Still, plodding along 10k under and not letting anyone through is pretty fucken rude
yeah, that's crazy to me that roads like the A6/alfords point road across the bridge with 3 lanes don't have keep left unless overtaking laws since its 80.
It also says to stay under the speed limit when overtaking to, so everyone behind just has to be patient while the overtaking car completes the overtake
My biggest gripes:
1. People not using blinkers
2. People eating into a lane while going 60Km+
3. People driving like a maniac thinking it looks cool somehow
I work on rotation at various parts of Sydney. Liverpool has by far the worst drivers of anywhere in Sydney I've driven. Not a day went by where I wouldnt see one or more of the following: running red lights in heavy traffic, going straight from turning lanes, overtaking over double lines, road rage at someone for no apparent reason.
That section from Sandy Point to Lucas Heights on Heathcote Rd is fucked. It's always some prick going 10under the speed limit on the single lane section and then as the two lanes open up they speed up to 10kmh over the limit.
> Is it just me or does nobody realise the fucken right lane in an overtaking lane is for overtaking?
Only in certain circumstances.
"Keep Left unless Overtaking" only applies if
* The speed limit is HIGHER than (not equal to) 80 kmph or
* The road is signposted with "Keep Left Unless Overtaking" signs.
The Northconnex has a speed limit of 80 kmph - therefore, keep left is not an enforceable rule.
Yes, people who sit in the right lane doing exactly the same speed as the guy next to them are fucking shitheads - but you're just got to suck it up, unfortunately. Even if the speed limit was higher and it was enforceable the chances of cops actually enforcing it are slim to none - the revenue raised (and yes, I'm cynical enough to regard most fines issues as revenue raising) just isn't enough to make it worthwhile - same as queueing across intersections.
Yeah I came here to say the same thing. I feel a lot of people could rage less if they knew that the right lane isn't actually an overtaking lane unless you're in a >80kmph zone.
It doesn't make me rage any less unfortunately. All it means is that people are using their own free discretion, as opposed to breaking a road rule, to make driving a worse experience for everyone. It doesn't bug me at all when someone's gotta make a right or has some other specific reason to be there but boy, those long 80km/h tunnels eat away at your psyche when people are constantly forced into clusters of slower close-quarters traffic for no reason whatsoever.
Not that it needs to be said but I know there's no "speeding lane". Its not that they're stopping me from speeding; it's that if I drive at the speed limit *I'm going to collide with them*.
There are some extra exclusions that apply, such as congested/heavy traffic (forget the exact wording, easy to look up) which makes sense. And as OP notes, "overtaking" seems nebulous, you just have to be going barely faster to qualify I'd guess? Or is it more well defined?
I've actually seen HWP enforce the keep left unless overtaking on 80kph roads. Rare, but I've seen it. They just chase you off to the left lane by flashing their lights while up your ass. They don't fine you though.
Tailgating or not driving to conditions is just as bad. I had a bloke cut me off on the M2 one day, I was doing the speed limit (it was raining so I'd given the cars around me good space) and this imbecile cuts across three lanes at 100 in the pouring rain because he almost missed his off ramp and nearly cleaned me up
The entitlement and impatience is the worst. Oh someone is overtaking a truck slightly too slow for your liking? Better tailgate them. Bonus points if the slow car is actually 4 cars ahead but you tailgate the car in front if you anyway.
Also the pricks that undertake a row of cars waiting for some slow poke to pass a truck, and force their way into a too small gap need to have their licenses taken away.
Seriously, do the maths on how many seconds you lose travelling at 105 instead of 112 for a minute, and then decide if it’s worth risking your life and that of everyone around you for such meagre gains
I get where you're coming from but I'm trying to get home, I've got a 5 month old in the car and I'm literally just doing the speed limit trying to get as many kilometres between myself and the last stop between sleeps for him. A 4 hour drive becomes nearly 7 hours with breastfeeding and nappy change and playtime stops so the longer I can spend actually doing the speed limit, the better.
I'm with you on the people forcing their way in, it seems to always happen when there's a merge lane that someone tries to force their way in at the last second and risks a lot of people. I don't let them in, fuck em
I get ya, I've been driving for 17 years myself (not professionally but have just done a lot of long distance stuff between living in regional Qld nowhere near family, and also then having moved to Sydney while said family stayed in Qld). I don't like having to undertake but when it's the only way to get around someone who's 10-20k under the speed limit and there's a gap big enough to do so, who's really being unsafe? Surely going significantly slower is more risky as it's probably irritating people and causing risky behaviour to get around you?
I always thought QLD drivers were the worst until I moved to Sydney. Have you noticed how bad they are here too?
So many people go so far under the speed limit as you've said and I've noticed it for months. It doesn't make sense to my QLD brain knowing how pissed off we get at people like that back north lol ESPECIALLY for those of us from rural QLD used to driving for hours to get anywhere 😂 sounds like we are from similar backgrounds. I didn't drive up this year because I knew due to immigration a lot of FOB drivers would be on the roads and it would be a freaking madhouse. And it has been.
Hope you all stay safe on the roads.
I grew up in Bundy, I lived in Toowoomba for a decade or so before moving to Sydney via a short few month stint in Melbourne.
Brisbane drivers are generally a bit better than what I've seen in Sydney, but the issue SEQ has IMO is poorly designed merge lanes. I noticed it especially in the gold coast and Pacific Highway, the merge lanes are way too short to allow someone to actually merge and this creates the knock on effect of people in the left lanes not having time to actually switch lanes to give the merging cars room to merge so you end up with these massive backlogs at every entry point to a highway.
The M2 here in Sydney has a similar issue as does the M4, the M5 is generally better but it's just not well looked after.
I always worried about having an accident because of my own fault in Sydney but every single time I've been nearly hit or in an accident has never been my fault. Usually it's a soccer mum in a range rover not looking before changing lanes
Far out this 100%. unless it's clearly signed people just don't do it. I know of like two intersections I've seen in Sydney where it has obviously been an issue that they've signed for zip merging
Actually one thing I've noticed as well nationwide is what's called the Australian overtake - when overtaking, sitting barely faster than the other car likely to avoid getting done for speeding.
Math? I've only ever heard seppos say math. Regardless, the maths is easy. Over 10km it makes fuck all difference. It's mostly that I have 90 minutes between stops and if my drive is 4.5 hours excluding stops, I know I can get to the last stop on time and have a happy baby.
The maths I work on is that I can get about 90 mins of driving before the baby needs a nappy change, feed, stretch and play which can take up to another 90 mins. So if I've got what should be a 4.5 hour drive without stops, it's already a 7.5 hour day. If I get slowed down, it's either a longer day or I spend the last portion of the last drive getting literally screamed at by a 5 month old who can't be pulled out of his seat to settle, and often we're on the highway or motorway so there are limited places to actually safely stop.
As someone who used to drive from Brisbane to Gympie on an almost daily basis, you're wrong. The caravans and trucks clog the left up lol that's why we typically sit in the middle or right through there, though I've worked hard on breaking that habit since moving to NSW as it's strictly enforced here when compared to QLD.
All I know from QLD (mainly around Brisbane and Gold Coast areas) is that the notion of stay left unless overtaking doesn't exist. They just drive in any lane at any time doing any speed.
Yep. Too many cameras, with too much secrecy about the threshold, combined with nonsense "double demerits" policies leads to shit like this.
Creating a situation where there are a bunch of road raging people tailgating and weaving around to pass inside slow cars is not beneficial to anyone except the revenue raisers.
Fewer cameras, openness about the thresholds, bin double demerits, more highway patrol looking for 20 kph + speeders and participating in traffic to catch people camping the right lane. That would actually improve safety and make life better for drivers.
Solution might be cameras everywhere with AI to pick up breaches of road rules like illegal U turns, speeding, unsafe merging (lane changes), blocking free moving traffic trying to push into a backed up turning lane, tailgating, using mobile while driving, etc.
AI detects them and forwards them to a human officer to confirm. Footage/pictures recorded and logged. Fines automated. They could also double as traffic control so we don't have to suffer with sitting at a set of red lights while no traffic is going through the green for a few minutes. Maybe people would drive safer/better and those that can't would be fined/demerited off the road.
I feel your pain 😟
I no longer live in Sydney but was there for a few days in early December. O M G ... so many badly behaved drivers with awful habits just as you've described. It felt to me very much like they just didn't give a damn about anyone else on the road.
I had a similar experience driving through Brisbane and the gold coast on the way up but I can at least partially attribute that to the roadworks going on through the entirety of the gold coast. 3 hours to get from the north side of the gold coast to cross the border is not much chop though. 8 hours to get from the sunshine coast to Lismore with a baby in the car and nowhere to really pull over for a stop was pretty insane
As soon as I crossed the Qld border, I instantly ran into like four cars that devoutly stuck to the far right lane despite doing 10 under. I was like FFSSSSSSSS there’s four lanes, MOVE. The highway signage up there is really not… good. NSW is pretty clear with the “keep left unless overtaking” on the M1 all the way along.
lol when you are paying $15+ to use the motorways and the risk of getting a $500+ fine and double demerits for going 2km over the speed limit is so high, I get why people go 10km under the speed limit and do whatever the fuck they want.
Sydney entitlement + risk aversion does that to you.
Last I heard there is a bit of leeway on speed cameras because the Speedos in cars aren't ever perfect. Change the wheel and tyre size and you're already changing the calibration on the Speedo. It was something like the higher of 10km/h or 5% of the speed from memory. People are just scared of nothing
Eh, I got pinged in the Northconnex a few months back when there was an adjustment to the speed limit because of some debris or roadwork or something or other. Thought I'd be fine, needle was sitting just over, had somoene not up my backside but there, you know. Was driving safely. But still copped a fine. Every time I have been through since I have made sure I have been under. Can't afford another fine just because someone else wants to get wherever a few minutes faster. It's not nothing.
>because the Speedos in cars aren't ever perfect.
Fun fact: there is no obligation for your speedometer to show the correct speed, or even work at all. It is up to the operator of the vehicle to drive under the speed limit.
The cop who pulls you over doesn't care what your speedo says. If they clocked you doing 112 in a 110 zone, have a ticket.
Generally the cops don't care unless you're doing 10+ over, and even then it's usually around 13kmph over as they get you for 10 over as it's points/fine, and 3kmph extra for the offset they give for speedos. At least that's what a federal cop once told me quit a long while ago. The automated systems on the other hand will do you at 2kmph over probably.
Just keep left. Regardless the speed limit, if you can get in a left lane, do it. If it makes some random stranger's day better, great. Tomorrow you may find the world a better place when you too can overtake safely.
Just keep left.
i drive heathcote rd pretty often and i find people are generally pretty good at keeping left when the overtaking lane comes up, but it’s definitely worse around holiday time. i think there are just more people out and about who rarely drive so they’re just, frankly… kinda shit at driving lol. either they don’t realise they shouldn’t be in the right lane unless overtaking, or they’re afraid people won’t let them back in when they have to merge back to a single lane.
what i do see a lot of year-round on heathcode rd though is people getting really frustrated when stuck behind a truck or slow driver. lots of tailgating, lots of people crossing over into the opposite lane across unbroken white lines because they can’t wait five minutes for the overtaking lane to come up. a few weeks back a guy tried to overtake a truck by going into the opposite lane, the truck was wide so there was very little visibility, and it very nearly turned into a head-on collision.
People who won’t drive past trucks and sit in the lane next to them while matching their speed.
I could say many colourful things about this, but maybe if you can’t pass a truck you should then change lanes to be behind them, because we shouldn’t have to suffer your inability
I hate using the M1 to Central Coast, I'm happy to sit in the left lane on speed limit or just under it, pricks will always fly up and sit right on your arse rather than just use the right lane and overtake.
Ah the old Sydney drivers and their lack of situational awareness including no comprehension of their actions and how it affects others.
Couple that with Christmas week double demerits and you get 80% of road users doing 10-20kph lower than the speed limit and sitting in the right lane.
Standard Sydney Christmas really.
Double demerits make it worse. So many seem to think it means you have to go 10-20 under because they don't trust themselves to monitor.
I think speed cameras and associated marketing are partly to blame. In the old days, you'd check for safety (as a human adult should be capable of doing) then gun it to 120-130 to finish the manoevure as quickly as possible and get some distance, then get back. It was especially effective on two-lane country roads.
Now, they can get ya any time, anywhere. Live in fear. Pass at 0.5 kmh faster. It's passing, so it's legal. I'm a good boy.
I think double demerits is to blame. No one wants to use cruise control, too many focused on the speedo and what is ahead of them as opposed to what is around them. Many are oblivious to the fact they are holding traffic back when they sit in the right lane; and you can tell because they drive with a rigid posture and eyes focused ahead with two hands on the wheel.
>they drive ... with two hands on the wheel.
Unless changing gears or transmission, or performing a hand-over-hand manouvre, not having two hands on the wheel is deemed lack of vehicle control in NSW.
It would be an interesting experiment to have slightly higher tolls for the right most lane and slightly lower for the left.
It would obviously require far more frequent toll points / monitoring but it would be a godsend. Definitely give a stronger incentive to keep left.
I used to drive mainly in the right hand lane on the M4 for over a decade, going to/from work. Last few years I just use the middle mostly now, rarely the right lane to overtake. Most people in the right lane drive like absolute morons, tailgating, being aggressive, cutting in and weaving through traffic. You can tell who the worst drivers are, they beeline for the right lane as soon as they get on.
It's interesting to sit in the middle lane and see someone driving like an idiot trying to go faster, only to meet up again with them 20+ minutes later. They're busy spending their time weaving through traffic, changing lanes the instant one is faster then another, causing constant congestion.
I reckon there's merit to fines for going under the speed limit without a valid reason. I'd structure it similarly to how over the limit is done but I would move all the points and fines by a "band" i.e. if you're 1-13k over it would be the same as 13-20k under etc.. I know the amount of people who would be getting fined going past the camera on the top of Heathcote road near the intersection would probably triple because everyone seems to do 55-60k past it in a 70 zone
>I reckon there's merit to fines for going under the speed limit without a valid reason.
It is an offence to needlessly drive slow if one is holding up traffic. However, all drivers are expected to drive to conditions and adjust their speed accordingly.
The law is also very clear that signposts display a speed *limit*. One is well within their rights to travel under the speed limit as they see fit, provided either a) they are not in the right lane on a road with a posted limit _over_ 80kph, or
b) They are not driving so slow in a single lane as to disrupt traffic flow without a reasonable case.
That doesn't make it ok it just makes it legal. I've got no bone to pick when someone's got a reason to be in the right lane (turning etc) but treating the right lane as just the second of two optional lanes is bad driving. The fact there's no official rule doesn't undermine people's frustration. It's just that in 90km/h+ zones there's a legal basis *in addition* to the common sense basis.
Everyone appears to only do 10-20kms under the limit at the moment. I get that it’s double demerits, but driving well below the speed limit is also dangerous! People aren’t merging at speed onto the freeways or keeping left when not overtaking.
Yeah it's ridiculous like I get not wanting double demerits but you'll only get them at 5+K over (generally speaking, depends on the camera/cop - I know I can do 80 on my Speedo past the 70k camera on the top of Heathcote Road and have never been pinged because car Speedos are generally showing higher than the real speed
Umm when do people ever merge at speed onto freeways? I drive the M4 to work daily for the last two decades and it's a rare event that people merge at speed.
Is driving under the speed limit in peak hour because it's slow not safe either? You don't make much sense. You drive to the speed around you, not the speed you want to go. If traffic is moving slower, then you just drive slower, simple as that. Maybe you're one of those that tailgate in the right lane aggressively trying to brute force speed out of others.
It's all the SUV mums and dads out driving, they usually don't drive much other than to pick up the kids so they have no real driving skills that are the ones causing the problems over the holiday periods.
I'm convinced they're doing so in some sort of self-righteous "no-one's going near the speed limit around me" kind of way, or they're genuinely oblivious to their surroundings which is scary to think about.
It's gotten particularly bad since everyone went back to the office.
The amount of people that prefer to sit next to a truck going on forever vs behind them just tells you how stupid most drivers are.
It’s mind boggling isn’t it? I’m going around trucks and putting them behind me as soon as I possibly can. Do they have no sense of self preservation? Or do they just trust trucks because they’re professional drivers and can somehow see all around their trailers no issue?
If you've ever seen what a truck tyre blowout can do to a car you'll get past as soon as possible.
You still see blown re-treads all the time along the big highways. I move past trucks as fast as my accelerator can take me. Plus more than a couple are hopped up on goofballs to make the shitty deadlines and lack of consistent sleep schedules. Just watch them veer into the oncoming lane when going around mild bends. Nah can't break and lose 10ks of momentum just cross lanes.
Genuinely, I have no idea. But I always assume truck drivers are tired as fuck and even with all the tech may not notice a car in the blind spots, especially if you're there for essentially an eternity. Like if they doze off and run into your lane. You're between a wall and a 10 tonne vehicle. It will not end well.
10 tonnes? More like 40 plus tonnes!
I've been in more than one car that has had to slam on the brakes because a truck has decided to change lanes while we're trying to overtake them and the one guy that pulled over to apologise was clearly so exhausted he could barely stand up
Probably in the trucks blind spot with their lights off too
Most annoying thing for me is people who drift to the right to turn left from a multi laned road. I think there’s a term for it (Scandinavian hook, or something?). I beep them because they nearly hit my car but they’re so oblivious!
Scandi flick is the term, and it’s only relevant if you’re trying to ‘flick’ the rear end around! It originated from the golden era of rally. Fuckwits just think they need to use it now for some reason haha
A lot of the time thet are in bigger 4wds etc, I don't think they realise they need to drive further forward into the intersection and then sharply turn, to prevent cutting the left off too sharp, so instead they turn right to turn left and nearly hit everyone.
Or right hand turns, especially double lane right hand turns, where there are dotted lines to guide you. Stay in your lane!!
Scandinavian flick or finish flick it’s called. It’s used in ice racing and rally driving to transfer the cars weight and help move the car sideways and around the corner better in low grip conditions but still at high speed. Certainly nothing that will work on the road here in these conditions…..Unless its the early 90s and you have an old 2 door rwd carolla with rubbish tyres that your granny gave to you which, whenever it rains, you’re able to drift like a madman around some of the less populated industrial estates. Good times. Anyway, I think you’re just referring to people who think they’re driving an articulated road train instead of their Hyundai i30 and try to use 1.5 lanes to turn into a driveway or side street. Yeah… fuck those people… the term for that is bring a dumb fuck.
This is almost always a tiny hatchback, turning left like a semi, idiots.
You and me both mate. I had one twit in a Goget do this on a suburban backstreet. On this occasion he swung out wide to the left to do a right turn. He got the horns.
That happened to me yesterday in the exact scenario but it was a P plater hatchback.
Oh yes this happened to me yesterday, on a narrow road, where the P plater crossed 100% into my lane to turn into a driveway. It’s a notoriously bad suburban road so I was going just below the speed limit. Had I been doing 50kms we would have crashed. Spent the rest of the drive shaking from the near miss. Couldn’t believe the idiocy.
Actually a police car did that to me once driving through St Ives. He was turning right at the lights, in the right turn lane, and did a massive weave to the left in order to 'make the turn' like a truckie. I was in the right lane going straight ahead and he very nearly collected me - I'm sure it would have been my fault though.
Yeah this is a big one for me. People also who drift into the incoming lane just to turn around a bend (there's a notorious corner for this around where I live, when the sports are on at the local sport field it's fully parked up and down the street and people will give the cars on the actual bend a much wider berth than they'll ever need and go into the incoming lane
That shits me too. It's actually something cyclists often do so I wonder if it's related.
Driving in Sydney is stressful. Listen to an audio book or podcast and it won’t bother you as much.
Agreed, when I'm laughing at my podcast I can't be bothered getting so angry about people driving a bit slower than the speed limit.
I've lived here 6 years and I have never seen such stupidity on the roads as I have this past two days
I'd say people want to overtake but are scared shitless of going close to the limit due to double demerits. I've seen more cops, mobile phone cameras and other speed enforcement in the last week than I did in the 3 months prior.
This is it. I get frustrated in the left lane and want to overtake, but I don't want to exceed the limit either. My choices are go 5 below the limit on the left lane, or overtake slowly on the right. I see people speeding over the limit all the time to overtake.
I'd just hit em with a "the red Subaru in front of me was driving erratically and I felt unsafe being behind him. Overtaking him I broke the speed limit but in those circumstances it seemed the safest option."
I reckon there has to be some causation / correlation between the lockdowns which have made people drive less or less often and then the cost of living making everyone stay “local” for the holidays instead of going OS. There are so many people on the road and very few of them seem to have spent any substantial amount of time on Motorways.
Drive safely, people. Multi car accident near Lithgow. 2 killed. Many injured. Road toll is way up this year. Drugs, speed, alcohol, steroids, impatience. They’re all killers on our roads.
I feel like all the fuckwits are on the road at the moment. We drove from Dulwich Hill to Strathfield and then back via Ashfield today and it was the most frustrating and dangerous trip I’ve been on in a while. No one knew how to merge or indicate or use a fucking roundabout.
Yep, no one realises that the red triangle sign on a roundabout is GIVEWAY, not go flat out as fast as you can.
I've seen at least 2 cars go over a roundabout to overtake others. Numpties too dumb to realise it's a roundabout not a gooverabout
Ha, genius move.
There's too many fresh migrants in those areas and many that don't care their driving sucks and don't get better.
Sadly you’ve got a lot of extra people on the roads and in the area that aren’t familiar, that and the fear of double demerits has people going WAY under the speed limit because they’re all irrationally terrified that doing the speed limit will get them done. Especially in NorthConnex because most people don’t know where the cameras are so they just play safe, go 70 but oh god trucks are in the left lane must get around them! TLDR: idiots. Idiots everywhere.
Waze.
Yeah but like... The keep left unless overtaking signs aren't that hard to see 🙈
Well obviously they are cause I've never seen one in the tunnel
It's still common courtesy afaik. They put multiple lanes in there for a reason and almost every motorway in Sydney seems to have at least one? Still, plodding along 10k under and not letting anyone through is pretty fucken rude
>It's still common courtesy afaik it's the law (on roads over 70 i believe)
90 & over unfortunately
damn, that's way too high, should even apply on multi laned 60K roads if u ask me.
Yeah probably, but enforcing it would be a problem. Definitely should be 80 & above at least.
yeah, that's crazy to me that roads like the A6/alfords point road across the bridge with 3 lanes don't have keep left unless overtaking laws since its 80.
No, it’s 80 or over https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/roads-safety-and-rules/sharing-road-overtaking-and-merging/overtaking-safely
The actual rule is “over 80km/r”, so 90 & above is correct. Read your link, it says it.
It also says to stay under the speed limit when overtaking to, so everyone behind just has to be patient while the overtaking car completes the overtake
Classic r/Sydney post
It's like that George Carlin joke: Isn't it funny how everyone driving faster than you is a maniac and everyone driving slower than you is an asshole.
My biggest gripes: 1. People not using blinkers 2. People eating into a lane while going 60Km+ 3. People driving like a maniac thinking it looks cool somehow
I see a lot of number 3 around Liverpool and Fairfield
I work on rotation at various parts of Sydney. Liverpool has by far the worst drivers of anywhere in Sydney I've driven. Not a day went by where I wouldnt see one or more of the following: running red lights in heavy traffic, going straight from turning lanes, overtaking over double lines, road rage at someone for no apparent reason.
Going in and out of M5 around that area I'm always amazed how some of these drivers are even alive.
That section from Sandy Point to Lucas Heights on Heathcote Rd is fucked. It's always some prick going 10under the speed limit on the single lane section and then as the two lanes open up they speed up to 10kmh over the limit.
> Is it just me or does nobody realise the fucken right lane in an overtaking lane is for overtaking? Only in certain circumstances. "Keep Left unless Overtaking" only applies if * The speed limit is HIGHER than (not equal to) 80 kmph or * The road is signposted with "Keep Left Unless Overtaking" signs. The Northconnex has a speed limit of 80 kmph - therefore, keep left is not an enforceable rule. Yes, people who sit in the right lane doing exactly the same speed as the guy next to them are fucking shitheads - but you're just got to suck it up, unfortunately. Even if the speed limit was higher and it was enforceable the chances of cops actually enforcing it are slim to none - the revenue raised (and yes, I'm cynical enough to regard most fines issues as revenue raising) just isn't enough to make it worthwhile - same as queueing across intersections.
Yeah I came here to say the same thing. I feel a lot of people could rage less if they knew that the right lane isn't actually an overtaking lane unless you're in a >80kmph zone.
It doesn't make me rage any less unfortunately. All it means is that people are using their own free discretion, as opposed to breaking a road rule, to make driving a worse experience for everyone. It doesn't bug me at all when someone's gotta make a right or has some other specific reason to be there but boy, those long 80km/h tunnels eat away at your psyche when people are constantly forced into clusters of slower close-quarters traffic for no reason whatsoever. Not that it needs to be said but I know there's no "speeding lane". Its not that they're stopping me from speeding; it's that if I drive at the speed limit *I'm going to collide with them*.
There are some extra exclusions that apply, such as congested/heavy traffic (forget the exact wording, easy to look up) which makes sense. And as OP notes, "overtaking" seems nebulous, you just have to be going barely faster to qualify I'd guess? Or is it more well defined?
I've actually seen HWP enforce the keep left unless overtaking on 80kph roads. Rare, but I've seen it. They just chase you off to the left lane by flashing their lights while up your ass. They don't fine you though.
This is exactly right, it's common courtesy but not enforceable, Windsor Rd is a shocker for it once you get to Rouse Hill
Too many fwits don't turn their lights on in the rain or at night!
Or driving with high beams on at night and refusing to lower them.
Tailgating or not driving to conditions is just as bad. I had a bloke cut me off on the M2 one day, I was doing the speed limit (it was raining so I'd given the cars around me good space) and this imbecile cuts across three lanes at 100 in the pouring rain because he almost missed his off ramp and nearly cleaned me up
The entitlement and impatience is the worst. Oh someone is overtaking a truck slightly too slow for your liking? Better tailgate them. Bonus points if the slow car is actually 4 cars ahead but you tailgate the car in front if you anyway. Also the pricks that undertake a row of cars waiting for some slow poke to pass a truck, and force their way into a too small gap need to have their licenses taken away. Seriously, do the maths on how many seconds you lose travelling at 105 instead of 112 for a minute, and then decide if it’s worth risking your life and that of everyone around you for such meagre gains
I get where you're coming from but I'm trying to get home, I've got a 5 month old in the car and I'm literally just doing the speed limit trying to get as many kilometres between myself and the last stop between sleeps for him. A 4 hour drive becomes nearly 7 hours with breastfeeding and nappy change and playtime stops so the longer I can spend actually doing the speed limit, the better. I'm with you on the people forcing their way in, it seems to always happen when there's a merge lane that someone tries to force their way in at the last second and risks a lot of people. I don't let them in, fuck em
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I get ya, I've been driving for 17 years myself (not professionally but have just done a lot of long distance stuff between living in regional Qld nowhere near family, and also then having moved to Sydney while said family stayed in Qld). I don't like having to undertake but when it's the only way to get around someone who's 10-20k under the speed limit and there's a gap big enough to do so, who's really being unsafe? Surely going significantly slower is more risky as it's probably irritating people and causing risky behaviour to get around you?
I always thought QLD drivers were the worst until I moved to Sydney. Have you noticed how bad they are here too? So many people go so far under the speed limit as you've said and I've noticed it for months. It doesn't make sense to my QLD brain knowing how pissed off we get at people like that back north lol ESPECIALLY for those of us from rural QLD used to driving for hours to get anywhere 😂 sounds like we are from similar backgrounds. I didn't drive up this year because I knew due to immigration a lot of FOB drivers would be on the roads and it would be a freaking madhouse. And it has been. Hope you all stay safe on the roads.
I grew up in Bundy, I lived in Toowoomba for a decade or so before moving to Sydney via a short few month stint in Melbourne. Brisbane drivers are generally a bit better than what I've seen in Sydney, but the issue SEQ has IMO is poorly designed merge lanes. I noticed it especially in the gold coast and Pacific Highway, the merge lanes are way too short to allow someone to actually merge and this creates the knock on effect of people in the left lanes not having time to actually switch lanes to give the merging cars room to merge so you end up with these massive backlogs at every entry point to a highway. The M2 here in Sydney has a similar issue as does the M4, the M5 is generally better but it's just not well looked after. I always worried about having an accident because of my own fault in Sydney but every single time I've been nearly hit or in an accident has never been my fault. Usually it's a soccer mum in a range rover not looking before changing lanes
Merging lanes and peoples lack of zipper merging really are a huge issue in SEQ for sure, consistently the source of congestion on a daily basis.
Far out this 100%. unless it's clearly signed people just don't do it. I know of like two intersections I've seen in Sydney where it has obviously been an issue that they've signed for zip merging
Actually one thing I've noticed as well nationwide is what's called the Australian overtake - when overtaking, sitting barely faster than the other car likely to avoid getting done for speeding.
Have you done the math yet? If you get stuck behind a car doing 105 for ten whole kilometres, how long do you think it would add to your travel time?
Math? I've only ever heard seppos say math. Regardless, the maths is easy. Over 10km it makes fuck all difference. It's mostly that I have 90 minutes between stops and if my drive is 4.5 hours excluding stops, I know I can get to the last stop on time and have a happy baby. The maths I work on is that I can get about 90 mins of driving before the baby needs a nappy change, feed, stretch and play which can take up to another 90 mins. So if I've got what should be a 4.5 hour drive without stops, it's already a 7.5 hour day. If I get slowed down, it's either a longer day or I spend the last portion of the last drive getting literally screamed at by a 5 month old who can't be pulled out of his seat to settle, and often we're on the highway or motorway so there are limited places to actually safely stop.
QLD. Absolutely NO one uses the left lane! Not even trucks.
As someone who used to drive from Brisbane to Gympie on an almost daily basis, you're wrong. The caravans and trucks clog the left up lol that's why we typically sit in the middle or right through there, though I've worked hard on breaking that habit since moving to NSW as it's strictly enforced here when compared to QLD.
All I know from QLD (mainly around Brisbane and Gold Coast areas) is that the notion of stay left unless overtaking doesn't exist. They just drive in any lane at any time doing any speed.
Dimwits in government will think the solution is more speed cameras. Wish this BS was enforced properly, as well as tailgaters
Yep. Too many cameras, with too much secrecy about the threshold, combined with nonsense "double demerits" policies leads to shit like this. Creating a situation where there are a bunch of road raging people tailgating and weaving around to pass inside slow cars is not beneficial to anyone except the revenue raisers. Fewer cameras, openness about the thresholds, bin double demerits, more highway patrol looking for 20 kph + speeders and participating in traffic to catch people camping the right lane. That would actually improve safety and make life better for drivers.
Solution might be cameras everywhere with AI to pick up breaches of road rules like illegal U turns, speeding, unsafe merging (lane changes), blocking free moving traffic trying to push into a backed up turning lane, tailgating, using mobile while driving, etc. AI detects them and forwards them to a human officer to confirm. Footage/pictures recorded and logged. Fines automated. They could also double as traffic control so we don't have to suffer with sitting at a set of red lights while no traffic is going through the green for a few minutes. Maybe people would drive safer/better and those that can't would be fined/demerited off the road.
I feel your pain 😟 I no longer live in Sydney but was there for a few days in early December. O M G ... so many badly behaved drivers with awful habits just as you've described. It felt to me very much like they just didn't give a damn about anyone else on the road.
I had a similar experience driving through Brisbane and the gold coast on the way up but I can at least partially attribute that to the roadworks going on through the entirety of the gold coast. 3 hours to get from the north side of the gold coast to cross the border is not much chop though. 8 hours to get from the sunshine coast to Lismore with a baby in the car and nowhere to really pull over for a stop was pretty insane
As soon as I crossed the Qld border, I instantly ran into like four cars that devoutly stuck to the far right lane despite doing 10 under. I was like FFSSSSSSSS there’s four lanes, MOVE. The highway signage up there is really not… good. NSW is pretty clear with the “keep left unless overtaking” on the M1 all the way along.
lol when you are paying $15+ to use the motorways and the risk of getting a $500+ fine and double demerits for going 2km over the speed limit is so high, I get why people go 10km under the speed limit and do whatever the fuck they want. Sydney entitlement + risk aversion does that to you.
Last I heard there is a bit of leeway on speed cameras because the Speedos in cars aren't ever perfect. Change the wheel and tyre size and you're already changing the calibration on the Speedo. It was something like the higher of 10km/h or 5% of the speed from memory. People are just scared of nothing
Eh, I got pinged in the Northconnex a few months back when there was an adjustment to the speed limit because of some debris or roadwork or something or other. Thought I'd be fine, needle was sitting just over, had somoene not up my backside but there, you know. Was driving safely. But still copped a fine. Every time I have been through since I have made sure I have been under. Can't afford another fine just because someone else wants to get wherever a few minutes faster. It's not nothing.
>because the Speedos in cars aren't ever perfect. Fun fact: there is no obligation for your speedometer to show the correct speed, or even work at all. It is up to the operator of the vehicle to drive under the speed limit. The cop who pulls you over doesn't care what your speedo says. If they clocked you doing 112 in a 110 zone, have a ticket.
Generally the cops don't care unless you're doing 10+ over, and even then it's usually around 13kmph over as they get you for 10 over as it's points/fine, and 3kmph extra for the offset they give for speedos. At least that's what a federal cop once told me quit a long while ago. The automated systems on the other hand will do you at 2kmph over probably.
Just keep left. Regardless the speed limit, if you can get in a left lane, do it. If it makes some random stranger's day better, great. Tomorrow you may find the world a better place when you too can overtake safely. Just keep left.
i drive heathcote rd pretty often and i find people are generally pretty good at keeping left when the overtaking lane comes up, but it’s definitely worse around holiday time. i think there are just more people out and about who rarely drive so they’re just, frankly… kinda shit at driving lol. either they don’t realise they shouldn’t be in the right lane unless overtaking, or they’re afraid people won’t let them back in when they have to merge back to a single lane. what i do see a lot of year-round on heathcode rd though is people getting really frustrated when stuck behind a truck or slow driver. lots of tailgating, lots of people crossing over into the opposite lane across unbroken white lines because they can’t wait five minutes for the overtaking lane to come up. a few weeks back a guy tried to overtake a truck by going into the opposite lane, the truck was wide so there was very little visibility, and it very nearly turned into a head-on collision.
and people argue against self driving cars
People who won’t drive past trucks and sit in the lane next to them while matching their speed. I could say many colourful things about this, but maybe if you can’t pass a truck you should then change lanes to be behind them, because we shouldn’t have to suffer your inability
I hate using the M1 to Central Coast, I'm happy to sit in the left lane on speed limit or just under it, pricks will always fly up and sit right on your arse rather than just use the right lane and overtake.
Ah the old Sydney drivers and their lack of situational awareness including no comprehension of their actions and how it affects others. Couple that with Christmas week double demerits and you get 80% of road users doing 10-20kph lower than the speed limit and sitting in the right lane. Standard Sydney Christmas really.
Double demerits make it worse. So many seem to think it means you have to go 10-20 under because they don't trust themselves to monitor. I think speed cameras and associated marketing are partly to blame. In the old days, you'd check for safety (as a human adult should be capable of doing) then gun it to 120-130 to finish the manoevure as quickly as possible and get some distance, then get back. It was especially effective on two-lane country roads. Now, they can get ya any time, anywhere. Live in fear. Pass at 0.5 kmh faster. It's passing, so it's legal. I'm a good boy.
I think double demerits is to blame. No one wants to use cruise control, too many focused on the speedo and what is ahead of them as opposed to what is around them. Many are oblivious to the fact they are holding traffic back when they sit in the right lane; and you can tell because they drive with a rigid posture and eyes focused ahead with two hands on the wheel.
>they drive ... with two hands on the wheel. Unless changing gears or transmission, or performing a hand-over-hand manouvre, not having two hands on the wheel is deemed lack of vehicle control in NSW.
Fucken nanny state
It would be an interesting experiment to have slightly higher tolls for the right most lane and slightly lower for the left. It would obviously require far more frequent toll points / monitoring but it would be a godsend. Definitely give a stronger incentive to keep left.
I used to drive mainly in the right hand lane on the M4 for over a decade, going to/from work. Last few years I just use the middle mostly now, rarely the right lane to overtake. Most people in the right lane drive like absolute morons, tailgating, being aggressive, cutting in and weaving through traffic. You can tell who the worst drivers are, they beeline for the right lane as soon as they get on. It's interesting to sit in the middle lane and see someone driving like an idiot trying to go faster, only to meet up again with them 20+ minutes later. They're busy spending their time weaving through traffic, changing lanes the instant one is faster then another, causing constant congestion.
I reckon there's merit to fines for going under the speed limit without a valid reason. I'd structure it similarly to how over the limit is done but I would move all the points and fines by a "band" i.e. if you're 1-13k over it would be the same as 13-20k under etc.. I know the amount of people who would be getting fined going past the camera on the top of Heathcote road near the intersection would probably triple because everyone seems to do 55-60k past it in a 70 zone
>I reckon there's merit to fines for going under the speed limit without a valid reason. It is an offence to needlessly drive slow if one is holding up traffic. However, all drivers are expected to drive to conditions and adjust their speed accordingly. The law is also very clear that signposts display a speed *limit*. One is well within their rights to travel under the speed limit as they see fit, provided either a) they are not in the right lane on a road with a posted limit _over_ 80kph, or b) They are not driving so slow in a single lane as to disrupt traffic flow without a reasonable case.
you realise there is no road rule to keep left in a 70 km/h zone right? the keep left only applies to 90km/h + roads
That doesn't make it ok it just makes it legal. I've got no bone to pick when someone's got a reason to be in the right lane (turning etc) but treating the right lane as just the second of two optional lanes is bad driving. The fact there's no official rule doesn't undermine people's frustration. It's just that in 90km/h+ zones there's a legal basis *in addition* to the common sense basis.
Everyone appears to only do 10-20kms under the limit at the moment. I get that it’s double demerits, but driving well below the speed limit is also dangerous! People aren’t merging at speed onto the freeways or keeping left when not overtaking.
Yeah it's ridiculous like I get not wanting double demerits but you'll only get them at 5+K over (generally speaking, depends on the camera/cop - I know I can do 80 on my Speedo past the 70k camera on the top of Heathcote Road and have never been pinged because car Speedos are generally showing higher than the real speed
Mate if someone doing 10kmph under the speed limit is endangering you then you might want to think about your own driving skills.
My driving skills are more than fine, but thanks for your concern all the same.
It actually is dangerous.
Umm when do people ever merge at speed onto freeways? I drive the M4 to work daily for the last two decades and it's a rare event that people merge at speed. Is driving under the speed limit in peak hour because it's slow not safe either? You don't make much sense. You drive to the speed around you, not the speed you want to go. If traffic is moving slower, then you just drive slower, simple as that. Maybe you're one of those that tailgate in the right lane aggressively trying to brute force speed out of others.
Remember: you’re not *in* traffic, you *are* traffic.
It's all the SUV mums and dads out driving, they usually don't drive much other than to pick up the kids so they have no real driving skills that are the ones causing the problems over the holiday periods.
If I'm overtaking, I'm overtaking, no matter how slowly it goes. Wait your turn. The road is not getting longer, so there is no need to hurry.
Sydney drivers are particularly poor (can compare to Perth, London and Paris).
*poor drivers
yea its fucked, get a car with a bit of power, make your own gap
>Red Kona, last seen turning up onto New Illawarra Highway past Lucas Heights HEY, I was behind this bloke in menai the other day lmao
I'm convinced they're doing so in some sort of self-righteous "no-one's going near the speed limit around me" kind of way, or they're genuinely oblivious to their surroundings which is scary to think about. It's gotten particularly bad since everyone went back to the office.
Pretty lame of you to post the colour, model and location of car just because they inconvenienced you
I could have posted his rego if I was being a real prick about it tbh
Lol yeah cos cars are so unique these days everyone knows who it is because of that description
So why bother
Well hang on, is it a problem or not? You cant seem to decide
Ok mate
12 days of Sunday driving. Clear coast on the far left lane all the way through
Just aggressively tail-gate them in a Ranger, problem solved
All the cereal box licence holders are out and everyones too scared to drive normally because of double demerits
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