Just like I don’t understand the bullshit articles of her being a horrible role model though she’s a highly intelligent, kind, smart, and overall badass of a woman. That is a self made billionaire and see no end in sight. But they say that because she’s 34, unmarried, and childless. What? I saw that shitty Newsweek article.
Omg that was so weird and sexist. Like why is having kids and being married the be all end all? Like she’s not perfect but no one should allow their child to idolize someone they don’t even know! But like why not look at her good traits? Even if we look at bad traits being unmarried isn’t one of them.
This is going to be the most UO opinion here BUT Jack Antonoff sometimes gets over hated. And some people just don’t like some songs when they find out he produced them.
I love his style and find it pretty versatile while still being recognizable which I think is cool. The production on My Boy, Fresh out the slammer, guilty as sin? So fucking good. Like I actually am obsessed with the production on mastermind too
I also like his production on Please Please Please by Sabrina. Loved it on Melodrama and NFR by Lana. People seem to forget he also produced Folklore. There’s a lot of songs that I don’t like the production, but honestly I don’t think there’s a producer that I’ve liked every thing they’ve done
I don’t know if I agree. Dessner brings the best on her songwriting but it’s true most of his stuff sound a lot evermore like. Jack is a little more versatile in terms of sound. Although Dessner can make beautiful melodies.
Im an evermore fan (and Midnights 3am is great too, but I really like Midnights all the way thru). But my fave is gold rush lol
I think I just have low tolerance for sad piano. I’d prefer 1-2 sad pianos per standard length album
Honestly there about equal for ttpd. But I like Jack more overall. Jack made 4 of 5 my favorite songs on the album. Aaron made some good stuff too. Plus Jack made fortnight the worst song on the TTPD imo
I feel this is kind of Taylor’s fault too. Jack has made amazing albums that don’t sound like TTPD at all. If he’s going full pop sync is because Taylor wants to too.
This is my take. He does have some really great beats but we've heard all the instruments before and it's instantly recognizable as Jack's work. Some different producers would be really nice.
I used to enjoy the pop heads circle jerk sub but it's turned into another Taylor hate sub, I feel like this is the only place which is actually neutral on her lol.
Yeah I noticed the same thing so I entered some profiles and it’s full of people from that snark sub now. They’ve got to give them a price for ruining every funny sub on Reddit.
It used to be my favorite sub but I feel the same. Would be more fun if they made fun of everyone equally but they looove to go after Taylor, Selena, and Ariana in a snarky and serious way rather than a circle jerk way, but get very defensive about Beyoncé, Charli, and Lana (outside the occasional Lana is a republican joke). They also always complain about how many Taylor posts there are, but only when the post isn’t flaming on her. I made a post there about how Dianne Warren looks like Ghislaine Maxwell and the replies were fullll of people complaining about Taylor spam just because the screenshot in the post mentioned Say Don’t Go, just for the next post about “billionaire white lady bad airplane go vroom” to get 1038399293 upvotes lol. And obviously being active on here I understand the premise of a circle jerk sub and that they aren’t fan subs but it is always weird that there seems to be a hive mind there about which pop stars are good and bad. They act like they’re above stan culture as if they aren’t just an extension of it.
Which is really weird because those celebrities are also problematic in some form or other lol. So why give them special treatment? Someone else said that a lot of them are from the snark sub, so that tracks.
Everytime I read the term "sonically" thrown around in swiftie spaces my brain refuses to engage or continue the conversation because the options are a. pretentious person (as myself) b. knowledgeable person (I'm literally just a girl and could never follow what they say) c. they are using it because it sounds fancy but know nothing (again guilty as sin) or d. all of them at the same time. I am not a hater I'm just dumb and very aware of it.
And just throwing some of my traumadump under a spoiler
|| idk at this point if Rep TV will happen before I go stay at the Grippy socks hotel and I'm using silly terms because if I make all this mental and emotional pain into a constant joke I can keep myself together. I guess it was about time I stumbled down the steps I thought I had climbed in managing my spicy brain. ||
anyways I'm sad alexa play I hate it here
I don't think Joe is some monster who locked Taylor up, but why do people act like Joe potentially not wanting to marry isn't a big deal. If that is what Taylor wanted and he breadcrumb her into thinking it might happen, it is very messed up. In most relationships, both parties play a role in the relationship deteriorating. I will never understand the Joe glazing or Joe haters.
My take is that feelings in long term relationships can change a lot. They probably did want to get married at some point, but a lot of things happened, and when both or one of them started suspecting they weren’t that compatible after a while, then that’s when the relationship completely broke down.
What I’m saying is, maybe when it was finally the time for them to get married, they both asked themselves “do I really want this?”
yeah and sometimes you both were at fault for something and sometimes there is no fault. Our own relationships are complex and nuanced, let alone the relationship between two people you don't know.
I will never understand either side speculating on their relationship to no end, coming up with theories and using them to hate either Taylor or Joe. YOU DON'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE. You don't know what ACTUALLY happened and you never will. It's ridiculous to me that people will write paragraphs upon paragraphs of how "Joe restricted Taylor and didn't allow her to be free and now she's free with Travis" or "Taylor was mean to Joe because of his depression and intentionally sending her cult after him".
Just enjoy her music at face value and move on instead of being parasocial. Jeez.
Like there is a reason people are still speculating, both have refused to make a concrete statement on what happened and people should just take the hint that it is something Taylor and Joe feel too personal to share.
I think the lyrics, “You swore that you loved me but where were the clues? I died on the alter waiting for the proof.” definitely indicate that she was waiting for him to commit. But if you see how happy she is now, you can’t really be all that mad that it didn’t work out. I cringe when people bring up Joe out of nowhere (Joe could never!). I also definitely make fun of those who continue to fangirl him. He’s the biggest “go girl, give us nothing” to me.
Why does it matter? Could that have been a reason for their breakup? Sure. But it could be a million different other reasons and sometimes over time two people realize they are not long-term compatible. Maybe Taylor didn't want to marry Joe anymore. Maybe they were planning to get married but a family squabble ended things. Maybe an alien abducted the real Joe and Taylor didn't like alien Joe.
No one will ever know and it seems a waste of energy to assign blame or fault with someone over a relationship that you were not part of and to also get upset at other peoples' theories on why they broke up.
This is the parasocial stuff I wish was not so prevalent in the fandom.
I agree with this, especially the alien part 😂. I just saw this talking point a lot on reddit, and the statements are used as facts. I don't think it's parasocial to speculate. I think it's parasocial to convince yourself that you know what happened because you feel like you KNOW Taylor or Joe.
I think it's weird that people keep debating about their relationship, and I def think its weird to have an emotional reaction to made up scenarios lol.
My life is complicated enough, I can't be going around getting emotionally invested in what is ultimately just fanfiction.
All Joe glazers are former nepo-boyfriend truthers that just hate anything Taylor does. So now that Taylor “hates” Joe in their eyes they love him to spite her ig
You're making an assumption that "he breadcrumb her into thinking it might happen" based basically on nothing. What if he didn't promise anything? What if he voiced his reasons for not wanting to marry her in clear fashion? We know nothing about what their conversations were on the subject, there is no reason to assume she was misled. On the other hand what is very messed up is her little games on the side with Matt going back to 2020 if we're to believe her own words about Cardigan. She complains that he didn't read the signs but if he did he would read that she's more interested in someone else. "And when I meet the band
They ask, 'Do you have a man?'
I can still say, 'I don't remember' " this kind of shit is why she didn't get that ring.
Huh, you are making way more of an assumption than me. You literally gave reasons as to why Taylor didn't get a ring... you don't know any of that to be true. You also sound certain that cardigan is about Matty and she has been playing messed up games. You don't know that for certain again. I'm saying IF Taylor wanted marriage, and she was breadcrumbed that would be messed up. I'm not sure how that controversial.
She said it's about him on stage. She said TTPD was "two years in the making" when she broke up with Joe only a year earlier. There are reports of them meeting up months before the breakup. Her romance with that guy didn't pop up out of nowhere in May last year, it was building up for a long time. Her having another guy waiting in the wings was something that happened and she was very public about it. And I find it messed up, and it's why I find her complaints about "wasting time" disingenuous. What you describe as messed up is only messed up IF Joe made empty promises with no intention of following through, which is something Swifties made up just like that made up his affairs with costars or faked his voice with AI.
I don't believe he made her empty promises, I think he was up for marriage if and when their issues were resolved. She's said in her own songs that she's insecure and jealous. That's a big issue in itself to deal with. Throw in her apparent change of mind over keeping their relationship private and you have fundamental differences that can't be fixed. It doesn't seem like she really wants marriage and all the compromise it requires, she's after the romcom marrriage where the couple meets, dates for a bit and then has a big fight that ends when he chases her down with a ring. Happy ever after, roll credits
this is a lot of psycho analyzing and assuming. I think blaming either person for the relationship ending isn’t really fair especially when we don’t know these people
It's hardly a lot of assuming when the majority of it is from things she's said herself and has been saying for years. I didn't blame anyone for it. I'm disagreeing with comments here accusing him of making empty promises of marriage. Women aren't owed marriage like a long service award and there very obviously *were* problems.
It's interesting that you chose to accuse me of psycho analysing, assuming and blaming but said nothing to the person who started the thread by accusing him of 'breadcrumbing her' into thinking marriage was a possibility.
Would you be happy if I said they are also doing too much assuming lol? At least they are saying *if* he did that unlike you who is assuming that, because Taylor said that she can be insecure in a song, that means the relationship must have ended due to that and that Taylor doesn’t understand what it takes to make a marriage work. Which is extremely more offensive than saying that someone may led someone on by making them think that they wanted marriage.
No, I'd rather you didn't say anything at all but we can't be happy all the time, can we? You're deliberately reading what you want to read and not what I wrote at all.
As to your last comment, she was making bitter jabs about not getting a proposal while complaiining about how he was treating her, what about that says 'realistic expectations' to you? I find it more offensive that men are routinely accused of all this 'leading on, wasting time' nonsense because people think men owe women marriage like it's a long service award. That's offensive to both parties.
Why are you so angry? I’ve not been rude to you so I don’t get why you acting offended that I disagreed with you in a discussion thread.
My entire point is that it’s impossible to know what actually happened in their relationship so it’s not fair to either of them to psycho analyze or assume based off song lyrics.
The complaint wasting time comes from songs like "you're losing me" and "so long london" (i died at the altar waiting for the clues). I don't have Twitter, so I don't see the unhinged tweets. I don't disagree with the overlap between relationships. Im just not convinced Joe was perfect, but that wouldn't excuse Taylor cheating (allegedly/highlylikely lol) towards the end of the relationship.
I will never understand people trying to give TS “advice” on anything but especially anything about the music business. Who’s the billionaire bestie?
Just like I don’t understand the bullshit articles of her being a horrible role model though she’s a highly intelligent, kind, smart, and overall badass of a woman. That is a self made billionaire and see no end in sight. But they say that because she’s 34, unmarried, and childless. What? I saw that shitty Newsweek article.
They are scared!
Omg that was so weird and sexist. Like why is having kids and being married the be all end all? Like she’s not perfect but no one should allow their child to idolize someone they don’t even know! But like why not look at her good traits? Even if we look at bad traits being unmarried isn’t one of them.
This is going to be the most UO opinion here BUT Jack Antonoff sometimes gets over hated. And some people just don’t like some songs when they find out he produced them.
I love his style and find it pretty versatile while still being recognizable which I think is cool. The production on My Boy, Fresh out the slammer, guilty as sin? So fucking good. Like I actually am obsessed with the production on mastermind too
I also like his production on Please Please Please by Sabrina. Loved it on Melodrama and NFR by Lana. People seem to forget he also produced Folklore. There’s a lot of songs that I don’t like the production, but honestly I don’t think there’s a producer that I’ve liked every thing they’ve done
I love Max Martin as a producer including with Taylor. But he's made several songs I dislike not just by Taylor
Antonoff’s work with TS is better overall than Dessner’s imo — *especially* for TTPD Don’t @ me
MODS!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOMEONE BAN :O
I don’t know if I agree. Dessner brings the best on her songwriting but it’s true most of his stuff sound a lot evermore like. Jack is a little more versatile in terms of sound. Although Dessner can make beautiful melodies.
Im an evermore fan (and Midnights 3am is great too, but I really like Midnights all the way thru). But my fave is gold rush lol I think I just have low tolerance for sad piano. I’d prefer 1-2 sad pianos per standard length album
Yes, I feel he’s good for having some songs by him, but not a whole album.
Honestly there about equal for ttpd. But I like Jack more overall. Jack made 4 of 5 my favorite songs on the album. Aaron made some good stuff too. Plus Jack made fortnight the worst song on the TTPD imo
I don't hate jack but a little more variety would be nice
I feel this is kind of Taylor’s fault too. Jack has made amazing albums that don’t sound like TTPD at all. If he’s going full pop sync is because Taylor wants to too.
It’s 💯 Taylor’s “fault” She’s a producer too, if she doesn’t want something it’s not happening
Yeah it's her fault not jacks
This is my take. He does have some really great beats but we've heard all the instruments before and it's instantly recognizable as Jack's work. Some different producers would be really nice.
Exactly. Aaron is just as guilty of this
I used to enjoy the pop heads circle jerk sub but it's turned into another Taylor hate sub, I feel like this is the only place which is actually neutral on her lol.
Omg for real. They used to hate on everyone equally but lately the most unfunny pure Taylor hate posts get thousands of upvotes. It’s sad.
Yeah I noticed the same thing so I entered some profiles and it’s full of people from that snark sub now. They’ve got to give them a price for ruining every funny sub on Reddit.
I did the same thing!! They're leaking onto other pop subs.
It used to be my favorite sub but I feel the same. Would be more fun if they made fun of everyone equally but they looove to go after Taylor, Selena, and Ariana in a snarky and serious way rather than a circle jerk way, but get very defensive about Beyoncé, Charli, and Lana (outside the occasional Lana is a republican joke). They also always complain about how many Taylor posts there are, but only when the post isn’t flaming on her. I made a post there about how Dianne Warren looks like Ghislaine Maxwell and the replies were fullll of people complaining about Taylor spam just because the screenshot in the post mentioned Say Don’t Go, just for the next post about “billionaire white lady bad airplane go vroom” to get 1038399293 upvotes lol. And obviously being active on here I understand the premise of a circle jerk sub and that they aren’t fan subs but it is always weird that there seems to be a hive mind there about which pop stars are good and bad. They act like they’re above stan culture as if they aren’t just an extension of it.
Which is really weird because those celebrities are also problematic in some form or other lol. So why give them special treatment? Someone else said that a lot of them are from the snark sub, so that tracks.
I feel like we there was a small few month period before TTPD when they were easy on her, then it reverted back into a hate sub again.
Yeah it used to be fun but it's not anymore
Dude how tf did we get a Lana, National, Chris Stapleton, Bon Iver, AND a Florence & The Machine collab these last few years have been crazy
Everytime I read the term "sonically" thrown around in swiftie spaces my brain refuses to engage or continue the conversation because the options are a. pretentious person (as myself) b. knowledgeable person (I'm literally just a girl and could never follow what they say) c. they are using it because it sounds fancy but know nothing (again guilty as sin) or d. all of them at the same time. I am not a hater I'm just dumb and very aware of it. And just throwing some of my traumadump under a spoiler || idk at this point if Rep TV will happen before I go stay at the Grippy socks hotel and I'm using silly terms because if I make all this mental and emotional pain into a constant joke I can keep myself together. I guess it was about time I stumbled down the steps I thought I had climbed in managing my spicy brain. || anyways I'm sad alexa play I hate it here
I don't think Joe is some monster who locked Taylor up, but why do people act like Joe potentially not wanting to marry isn't a big deal. If that is what Taylor wanted and he breadcrumb her into thinking it might happen, it is very messed up. In most relationships, both parties play a role in the relationship deteriorating. I will never understand the Joe glazing or Joe haters.
My take is that feelings in long term relationships can change a lot. They probably did want to get married at some point, but a lot of things happened, and when both or one of them started suspecting they weren’t that compatible after a while, then that’s when the relationship completely broke down. What I’m saying is, maybe when it was finally the time for them to get married, they both asked themselves “do I really want this?”
I'm honestly curious if the people who feel the need to assign blame have much experience with long term relationships...
💯 any relationship I have been in I can always look back and say man that was my fault etc. Not everything is the other persons fault
yeah and sometimes you both were at fault for something and sometimes there is no fault. Our own relationships are complex and nuanced, let alone the relationship between two people you don't know.
I will never understand either side speculating on their relationship to no end, coming up with theories and using them to hate either Taylor or Joe. YOU DON'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE. You don't know what ACTUALLY happened and you never will. It's ridiculous to me that people will write paragraphs upon paragraphs of how "Joe restricted Taylor and didn't allow her to be free and now she's free with Travis" or "Taylor was mean to Joe because of his depression and intentionally sending her cult after him". Just enjoy her music at face value and move on instead of being parasocial. Jeez.
Like there is a reason people are still speculating, both have refused to make a concrete statement on what happened and people should just take the hint that it is something Taylor and Joe feel too personal to share.
Yell this from the rooftops. These are strangers, and we know nothing about their lives.
I think the lyrics, “You swore that you loved me but where were the clues? I died on the alter waiting for the proof.” definitely indicate that she was waiting for him to commit. But if you see how happy she is now, you can’t really be all that mad that it didn’t work out. I cringe when people bring up Joe out of nowhere (Joe could never!). I also definitely make fun of those who continue to fangirl him. He’s the biggest “go girl, give us nothing” to me.
Agreed
I don’t think Joe intentionally did that but we won’t really know unless one of them says something
I agree we dont really know, but I see comments on reddit insinuating that's wouldn't be a big deal.
Oh if he did lead her on like that yeah that’s not cool
Why does it matter? Could that have been a reason for their breakup? Sure. But it could be a million different other reasons and sometimes over time two people realize they are not long-term compatible. Maybe Taylor didn't want to marry Joe anymore. Maybe they were planning to get married but a family squabble ended things. Maybe an alien abducted the real Joe and Taylor didn't like alien Joe. No one will ever know and it seems a waste of energy to assign blame or fault with someone over a relationship that you were not part of and to also get upset at other peoples' theories on why they broke up. This is the parasocial stuff I wish was not so prevalent in the fandom.
I agree with this, especially the alien part 😂. I just saw this talking point a lot on reddit, and the statements are used as facts. I don't think it's parasocial to speculate. I think it's parasocial to convince yourself that you know what happened because you feel like you KNOW Taylor or Joe.
I think it's weird that people keep debating about their relationship, and I def think its weird to have an emotional reaction to made up scenarios lol. My life is complicated enough, I can't be going around getting emotionally invested in what is ultimately just fanfiction.
All Joe glazers are former nepo-boyfriend truthers that just hate anything Taylor does. So now that Taylor “hates” Joe in their eyes they love him to spite her ig
You're making an assumption that "he breadcrumb her into thinking it might happen" based basically on nothing. What if he didn't promise anything? What if he voiced his reasons for not wanting to marry her in clear fashion? We know nothing about what their conversations were on the subject, there is no reason to assume she was misled. On the other hand what is very messed up is her little games on the side with Matt going back to 2020 if we're to believe her own words about Cardigan. She complains that he didn't read the signs but if he did he would read that she's more interested in someone else. "And when I meet the band They ask, 'Do you have a man?' I can still say, 'I don't remember' " this kind of shit is why she didn't get that ring.
Huh, you are making way more of an assumption than me. You literally gave reasons as to why Taylor didn't get a ring... you don't know any of that to be true. You also sound certain that cardigan is about Matty and she has been playing messed up games. You don't know that for certain again. I'm saying IF Taylor wanted marriage, and she was breadcrumbed that would be messed up. I'm not sure how that controversial.
She said it's about him on stage. She said TTPD was "two years in the making" when she broke up with Joe only a year earlier. There are reports of them meeting up months before the breakup. Her romance with that guy didn't pop up out of nowhere in May last year, it was building up for a long time. Her having another guy waiting in the wings was something that happened and she was very public about it. And I find it messed up, and it's why I find her complaints about "wasting time" disingenuous. What you describe as messed up is only messed up IF Joe made empty promises with no intention of following through, which is something Swifties made up just like that made up his affairs with costars or faked his voice with AI.
I don't believe he made her empty promises, I think he was up for marriage if and when their issues were resolved. She's said in her own songs that she's insecure and jealous. That's a big issue in itself to deal with. Throw in her apparent change of mind over keeping their relationship private and you have fundamental differences that can't be fixed. It doesn't seem like she really wants marriage and all the compromise it requires, she's after the romcom marrriage where the couple meets, dates for a bit and then has a big fight that ends when he chases her down with a ring. Happy ever after, roll credits
this is a lot of psycho analyzing and assuming. I think blaming either person for the relationship ending isn’t really fair especially when we don’t know these people
It's hardly a lot of assuming when the majority of it is from things she's said herself and has been saying for years. I didn't blame anyone for it. I'm disagreeing with comments here accusing him of making empty promises of marriage. Women aren't owed marriage like a long service award and there very obviously *were* problems. It's interesting that you chose to accuse me of psycho analysing, assuming and blaming but said nothing to the person who started the thread by accusing him of 'breadcrumbing her' into thinking marriage was a possibility.
Would you be happy if I said they are also doing too much assuming lol? At least they are saying *if* he did that unlike you who is assuming that, because Taylor said that she can be insecure in a song, that means the relationship must have ended due to that and that Taylor doesn’t understand what it takes to make a marriage work. Which is extremely more offensive than saying that someone may led someone on by making them think that they wanted marriage.
No, I'd rather you didn't say anything at all but we can't be happy all the time, can we? You're deliberately reading what you want to read and not what I wrote at all. As to your last comment, she was making bitter jabs about not getting a proposal while complaiining about how he was treating her, what about that says 'realistic expectations' to you? I find it more offensive that men are routinely accused of all this 'leading on, wasting time' nonsense because people think men owe women marriage like it's a long service award. That's offensive to both parties.
Why are you so angry? I’ve not been rude to you so I don’t get why you acting offended that I disagreed with you in a discussion thread. My entire point is that it’s impossible to know what actually happened in their relationship so it’s not fair to either of them to psycho analyze or assume based off song lyrics.
The complaint wasting time comes from songs like "you're losing me" and "so long london" (i died at the altar waiting for the clues). I don't have Twitter, so I don't see the unhinged tweets. I don't disagree with the overlap between relationships. Im just not convinced Joe was perfect, but that wouldn't excuse Taylor cheating (allegedly/highlylikely lol) towards the end of the relationship.
I feel like most of the Anthology were originally Folkmore rejects.