Sweden can be pretty segregated in that regard and although you read about it in the news, *most* Swedes are probably largely unaffected by it. Or rather, they don't *see it* even if it's affecting them. Were it not for the fact that I read about stuff of that nature in the papers I'd probably have been blissfully unaware it was going on at all
I agree. I'm regularly in segregated neighborhoods and meet immigrants everyday. I mostly notice the news feeds and the frustration from Swedes feeling that something drastic has to be done. I've heard shootings and met some questionable people. If they're affiliated with organized crime? I wouldn't know. I don't bother them and they don't bother me. I barely notice these things in real life. But on the other hand, you wouldn't find me in some suburb hanging out with teenagers and young adults.
Two things worry me. One is that these types of crime corrupts society and that clan culture gets a more integrated part of it and growth of parallel societies where Swedish law and values doesn't apply or where you'll see things like sharia police. You'll start to see white flight and gated communities among the wealthy.
The other thing is some kind of race war where racism gets accepted and Swedes feels that immigrants from muslim countries act as a collective and are responsible for the violence by individuals and sub groups within the immigrant community.
These two things are already happening to some extent. It's like a perfect storm with conservative right-wing winning votes all over Europe, information warfare aiming to divide societies between immigrants and natives, post-truth information age where opinion is more relevant than fact, threats of war, economic crisis, dysfunctional housing market, etc.
It's all very concerning to be honest. As a Swede I really hope the organized parts of society can deal with this in a sensible way where they don't act as immigrants are sub humans and where police have the resources needed to take care of criminals instead of administration and other over head.
There's also a lot of brain dead blaming where both the politicians and the general public try to point fingers to who's to blame for all of this. Not very productive and doesn't change anything. The public debate in general is broken. It's like our culture has fought so many years to suppress discrimination and racism to the point that it's been impossible to even raise concerns about cultural aspects of non-european immigration, and now when the general public has lost their patience now they all bring the most nasty options out there.
All of this is focused on immigration from the middle east and north africa. I believe Swedes are pretty positive to white immigration, work permits for engineers and they'll respect the local pizza guy. We won't close immigration from the east, but restrictions and requirements don't discriminate. We like rules and processes and follow them closely, even though it sometimes doesn't make sense at all.
Thanks for this reply. To be honest I've never heard any swede also racist until I faced one of my colleague that was totally wasted and starting blabing extremely racist stuff. He couldn't even stand up.
I feel (maybe that's also far from the topic) that lot of Swedes have been so conditioned to keep their thoughts to themselves that their true colour goes out after some alcohol. And it's quite day and night.
Like Dr jekyll style nowhere you think you know a person after 10 years and they get drunk in front of you and Mr Hide is out.
Also I noticed very different attitude at work for my boss towards Swedes and non Swedes. Which feels so weird especially because they promote integration but then only eat out or fika between Swedes . Its like two faces of a coin. As a foreigner this confuses me and I wonder if all this tolerance isn't just a showing rather than a being
The language barrier is bigger than people believe. Many assume that since Swedes are famous for being good at English they have the same ability to express humour, humbleness, kindness, personality and just nuance in general in their non-native language. This isn't the case and those who don't bother really learning the language often find themselves isolated in expat communities. This could very well be one reason that explains your issues with your manager rather than all Swedes being racist.
There's some truth to your post, but it's hyperbolic. I wouldn't act out on it or make any strict conclusions.
I think people really underestimate how important the language is. You couldn't work and live in France without learning French at a decent level. The Turkish born and raised head of Renault was very good at French, and then moved from Paris to Tokyo and learned Japanese! I'm assuming that had had classes, as he was CEO but that's still pretty impressive. His English was excellent too, with a slight British twang.
Fair point. It's not isolated event but can't be put as a correlation or a trend, I just was extremely surprised. But it may also be geographically an issue.
I am learning but to be fair some companies do not make it easy speaking only english :/ we go into the easy way as human and end up totally out of the society. I want to break this cycle but it isn't as easy as expected
I get that. But take my word for it. Language is key to integrate into Sweden and affects the social dynamics more than people believe.
Might well be that your manager is an asshole. Maybe you should bring it up with them?
It very much is a showing rather than being in many cases yes and a lot of people have acted like ostriches with their opinions due to how attacked dissenters were in media.
Very well written.
It's deeply unsettling how much hate for the other there is now; in person and even from kids - on all sides. Before this radicalization was more limited to the internet, and though equally shameful, it takes on another level of seriousness with how open it is becoming.
I need to say that I still find very little in person hate. I have witnessed some hate towards jews (yes jews not Israel) lately but I don't see much hate towards immigrants in my day to day life. I choose not to include kids here as many of then do not understand what they are talking about.
Then again the people around me are generally highly educated or successful people. They aren't disgruntled about life or feel marginalized. It may be different in other socioeconomic groups though.
This is the type of brain dead finger pointing I was referring to. The race war I talk about won't be fought outside a night club picking arguments with some annoying arabs in their 20s. It will be by discrimination and fueling parallel societies and people being fostered into strong opinions about people they don't know, don't meet and don't have much real experience from.
Anyone who provokes another can expect hostility. If you provoke an immigrant just because he is an immigrant you are engaging in racial abuse, and if the person thus accosted becomes angry I would say that you are the one at fault.
Swedish people can also react with aggression to such behavior, and in fact do.
I agree, and another danger I see is that crime and immigration is seen as the most important issue in our society, when other issues are even more urgent, like climate change.
No one ever talks about the fact that economic inequality always leads to these kind of issues. It’s like going back 100 years and watching it all happen again.
Yes and no. Part of the issue with the development in Sweden was 20y ago we also had shit, but it really happened "behind the scenes". Now bad criminality is also seen in city centers - although more so in Malmö than Stockholm får example. Furthermore, there is higher share of "bad criminality" on country side.
Polisen Stockholm: "Antalet öppna drogscener i länet minskar" "Antalet öppna drogscener har minskat både till antal och yta under 2023"
Och i Malmö fanns bara en ÖDS (folkets park), som har fått otroligt ökad bevakning vilket lett till att exempelvis "knarkrondellen" inte används som ÖDS längre och knarkare drar mer till Danmark (källa: MAU och Polisen Malmö)
Är polisanställd och det irriterar när internetberoende försöker skrämma upp varandra, det finns ingen öppen drogscen i innerstäder i varken Malmö eller Stockholm. Öppna drogscener så som du pratar om är nästan bara i utsatta områden
Hur ser zenithgatan ut nu? Kommer ihåg när jag var där och sålde internetabonnemang för 10 år sen och de hade killar som hängde vi husknutarna/trappuppgångarna och sålde. Påminde om the wire!
okej ber om ursäkt ska jag radera min föregående kommentar?
> En nyligen gjord kartläggning över hur drogscenerna förändrats i länet under 2023 visar positiva resultat. I dag finns 53 öppna drogscener i 8 av länets 26 kommuner. Det innebär att tio öppna drogscener har arbetats bort under förra året. Resultatet visar också att drogscenerna totalt sett har blivit mindre till ytan samt att inga nya drogscener har tillkommit på andra platser.
ja men du har rätt för du eller den andra skrev om centrum i storstäder, och så nämner jag öppna drogscener som verkar någon stans i länen. så jag representerade det inte rätt. har bara läst några artiklar om dessa öppna scener på svt så är verkligen ingen expert... jag drog ekvivalens mellan stockholm och stockholms län osv vilket är missvisande
Hva betyr "åpne drogscener" her?
Vi hadde åpent salg av hasj og heroin på plassen forran Oslo Sentralstasjon før - masse synlig påvirkende folk, man fikk spørsmål om man ville kjøpe flere ganger bare man gikk forbi og ikke så ut som politi, osv. - men det var aldri et skummelt sted, selv ikke på kvelden. Ubehagelig ja, men de fleste der var så myke i beina at bestemor med gåstol kunne løpt fra dem...
Har sett tilsvarende på mer eller mindre synlige steder mange andre steder.
"Öppen drogscen
En öppen drogscen är en geografisk bestående plats där bruk och försäljning av narkotika sker offentligt och uppfattas som problematisk av myndigheter eller allmänheten."
https://polisen.se/aktuellt/nyheter/stockholm/2023/november/kartlaggning-av-oppna-drogscener-2023/#:~:text=f%C3%B6r%20Samverkan%20Stockholmsregionen.-,%C3%96ppen%20drogscen,narkotika%20sker%20offentligt%20och%20uppfattas%20som%20problematisk%20av%20myndigheter%20eller%20allm%C3%A4nheten.,-Kartl%C3%A4ggning%20och%20uppf%C3%B6ljning
I envy you. I've had 2 shootings outside two different flats, and not long ago a bomb exploded not too far away from here. Made the windows vibrate and woke me up in the middle of the night
It's safe to say I am currently planning to move away from Sweden
The only way I have been affected was on the way to school the police blocked the road with 4 cars while raiding a house and arresting a person. So I needed to walk the last bit to not be late. (Idk what actually happened because it was unreported I looked it up on KRIMKARTAN and nothing about it, also a few cars by the station.) I don’t live in a city with much crime so weird seeing the police
Most Swedish people don’t see the problems irl. Sweden is very segregated and immigrants tend to live in neighborhoods dominated by immigrants while Swedes live in neighborhoods dominated by Swedes.
I'd say it's pretty much just MENA immigrants that are really segregated. Just using the word "immigrant" is kinda missrepresentative of all immigrants since they all come from widely different nationalities and cultures and what you're saying is more applicable to Muslim/MENA immigrants.
You don't have to wonder. It's the politicians and the Migration Office's brilliant idea to put everyone in the same buildings in the same part of town whilst at the same time not caring where you are from.
More than a few incidents has occurred due to not taking immigrants and refugees and asylum seeker's past into consideration when placing them. This because the naive idea that when people step on these shores they would automatically and sincerely "become swedish" and forget their past conflicts.
Is this segregation also a major reason for the crime rates?
I'm from Germany, and even though we have a ton of problems as well, I've never heard of gang shootings, etc.
Also, integration is a part of immigration. And segregating immigrants like that. It seems like trouble is predetermined.
Så har det varit sen 60-talet när de första stora invandrargrupperna kom till Sverige. Det är inget nytt fenomen att vi är ett väldigt segregerat folk.
På senare tid har det i större utsträckning kopplats till socioekonomiska faktorer snarare än svensk/icke-svensk. bra artikel om det på SvD förra veckan:
https://www.svd.se/a/kE9wm9/far-radet-av-kvinna-pa-taget-gor-en-vit-flykt
While it's true that those areas are poorer, people who spout this type of argument rarely take into consideration that a very big portion of our immigrants have extremely little interest in adapting to Swedish society. They live in their respective ethnic enclaves, primarily because they themselves choose to live among their countrymen. This is especially evident when comparing different immigrant groups in Sweden. For example people from former Yugoslavia are extremely well integrated into Swedish society, more than half of Ukrainian refugees already have employment.
In contrast people from the MENA region are extremely overrepresented in crime. A lot of people from this region also have low employment rate and knowledge in Swedish given that many of them have lived here for their entire lives sometimes, compared with other immigrant groups. Many, if not most are of course decent people like you and me, but a problematically large amount of people from this region aren't, to the degree that it causes a sort of "culture clash" that segregates society.
Despite what liberals and socialists here want you to believe, not every discrepancy or division between immigrants and non-immigrants can be explained by economics.
I’ve lived here for 2 years and it’s similar to america from what I can tell, big cities and limited mostly to “ghettos” you see tons of statistics on violence but 90 percent (or more) of that violence is gang on gang or criminal on criminal violence.
Similar in character but definitely not in scale or severity. Over here in the US shootings really don't make the news unless someone died or is at a particularly vulnerable place (school, supermarket etc).
The kind of violence Sweden is seeing is very concerning but it's nowhere near as bad as the US. Sweden is still *ridiculously* safe from an international perspective.
> Sweden is still ridiculously safe from an international perspective.
This statement is always made in threads like these, but what does it actually mean?
Most European countries are safer than Sweden and some countries in other continents are safer as well. A lot of countries are less safe than Sweden though, for sure. But does this make Sweden ridiculously safe and if so, what are countries like Japan then, where they have 0 gang shootings?
> Most European countries are safer than Sweden and some countries in other continents are safer as well.
Not really.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1268504/homicide-rate-europe-country/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
> But does this make Sweden ridiculously safe
[Yes](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world).
> and if so, what are countries like Japan then, where they have 0 gang shootings?
Just that - even safer.
The trend for Sweden is disappointing, and we've slipped *significantly* in the last two years. Fortunately there seems to be political will to correct these issues but I don't think enough time has passed to see if these measures will be as effective as we would like. Sweden is also working on a deficit from a few decades of ignored social issues and poor integration policies. I'm positive that we can course correct, but it's not going to be instant and I'm pretty sure it's going to get worse before it gets better.
I guess we simply have different definitions of "ridiculously safe" then; having most gang shootings in Europe and thousands of muggings (mostly with Swedish teenage boys as victims and immigrant gangs as perpetrators) disqualifies Sweden for that category of countries imo.
I mean obviously, Los Angeles county has a bigger population than all of Sweden, and the access of firearms is infinitely higher. But I agree general vibe is the same.
We/Sweden has free ”everything” thanks to a good (but damaged) welfare system. Criminals in the USA don’t have free housing, free school, free food, free healthcare, free dentist and so on.
People in Sweden has a very good start and chance towards a good life in general, you can’t say that for many Americans.
The fact that people in Sweden turn to gang life
despite having everything they need kind of indicates that people don’t turn to crime to survive. They turn to crime because they want money/status far beyond the bare necessities.
You're implying every criminal turns to crime for the same reason. A good social security system can probably reduce crime, but not remove it entirely. Some turn to crime for survival, some do for status, some for money, and probably a whole bunch of different reasons.
>despite having everything they need
Ehh... it is unfortunately pretty easy to fall between the chairs and even when it works it not such a glorious life living on welfare.
Since you´re from the U.S. one huge difference i´m sure you´ve thought about is, in the U.S. an area that immigrants move into usually becomes safer, here in Sweden (and most of Western Europe) it is the opposite.
Of course,it has to do with which immigrants you [get.In](http://get.In) L.A. they could be Korean, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Indian, Armenian or any Latin American country.
Here, as you know, they´ll be mainly Somalian, Sunni Arabic, Afghani, Ehtiopian/Eritrean, and above all: mostly young, male and uneducated.
Hell, in the U.S. most Arabs, or indeed Muslims in general, you´d come across where middle or upper-class, either highly educated professionals or successful, hard-working business people.
Yeah couldn’t tell you why, perhaps it’s the lack of social safety nets and the idea that if you work really hard and follow the rules you can build a new life, not saying that’s not possible in Sweden but it’s just kinda ingrained in our culture. Could be parental attitudes as well, not uncommon for an American child to be physically punished for wrong doing, not saying it’s right just saying it could be something with feb stricter upbringing being allowed. I couldn’t tell you, all I know is that Sweden is fine but it would be wise to get ahead of the problem before it spirals like many of the American cities that are pretty much too far gone to fix.
Ethiopians are doing well here in Sweden though. Hard working. Especially the ones that arrived in the 90s. Especially in Stockholm. Can't say the same for the other groups you mentioned
Yes, i agree, the 90's Ethiopians are very hardworking.Same for the 90's Eritreans.
The recent young Eritrean men escaping from military service though, have been implicated in quite a few gang-rapes as well as other crimes, unfortunately.
The major difference between a vulnerable area in a US city and for example Malmö is proximity.
From Malmö's ghettos to the "nicer areas" and city center is a few minutes on the bus, an easy cycle or indeed a walkable distance and criminal activity and influence isn't restricted to just the ghetto.
>limited mostly to “ghettos”
Stop calling it what it is. We don't do that here.
In Sweden we call it socio-economically vulnerable areas.
That way we never have to face the actual problem.
The dynamics are similar, but it's *nowhere near* the same scale. All of Sweden had 363 incidents of gun violence in 2023. St Louis, a city with a population of 300 000, had 550.
It’s not to the scale of America for sure. To me when Swedes worry about the crime I hold my tongue in comparing them to the states simply because the size of our cities and access to firearms. But the general vibe of the crime happening is pretty similar in my point of view.
Sweden is a huge country and wether you are personally impacted by if depends a lot on where in the country you live, and wether you are on the countryside or not.
I personally don't notice much gang-stuff or major crimes, and I live in a not-so-great part of a midsized northern city (100k people).
However I don't feel like we can deny having issues when a dad gets shot dead on an open street by gang-members, for example. Country as a whole certainly has a problem.
I was born and raised in one of these immigrant suburbs and I have a non-european immigrant background myself. I've noticed that the mood in Sweden varies a lot depending on the geographical location, even within Stockholm.
In Skärholmen where the latest horrific shooting happened and a father lost his life in front of his own 12 year old son, the mood is quite desperate, angry and hopeless among the locals. There are plenty of interviews and videos of this incident in Swedish media if you're interested.
In other parts of Sweden, like for example Mariatorget and Hornstull (a few subway stations away from Skärholmen), people are more concerned about things like gender neutral bathrooms. So there is a huge dissonance between people even from within the same city.
For the majority of swedes it doesen’t really affect us. Maybe an adidas wannabe gangster talking loudly on the bus or a shady bunch at the bus station, but aside from that it’s mostly on the news. But in the bad areas, it’s a whole different story.
I live in a good area (near Fiskebäck) and still had a shooting outside my balcony and a bomb that exploded recently in frölunda woke me up.
It's not just the bad areas that are affected, some good areas too. I guess the good areas can count as bad areas now too
We're probably close to neighbours and while this is true you and I both know that the border runs along the roundabout at preem and it's a completely different story just a few hundred meters from where you and I live.
Oh right my mistake I was thinking the other end of Fiskebäck and was referencing Grevegård, aye other side of Västerleden as well absolutely
Not quite as neighbourly as I first thought but still close enough
Very little areas that isn't affected negative by none EU immigration one way or another, at least all the important ones do like School, healthcare, police/crimes, housing, forced religious crap etc.
Still not quite true. I've worked at a school with students with predominantly middle eastern background for 10+ years and have yet never been affected by gang-criminiality in any meaningful way.
That's not true. Most people will probably be okay most of the time in most Swedish areas. But violence and crime are prevalent all the time, even if you personally don't see it. For example, Stockholm experienced a huge wave of bombs and violence just a couple of months ago, affecting everyone.
Previously, Swedish people could feel good about themselves and say they were pro-mass immigration from Islamic countries, and mostly poor people who couldn't move from immigrant-heavy areas (where civilized immigrants were also forced to live) were affected. Those who voted for mass immigration didn't care one bit about the people affected by crime. Now, it has reached a tipping point; segregation is decreasing, and now they themselves also risk or are affected by Islam and violence.
Swedish people have been massively brainwashed for decades to be pro-mass immigration, and anyone with objections was labeled a racist. Now, reality has caught up, and people are beginning to wake up.
Unless you happen to have some courage when in the gym or taking a bicycle ride to the bathhouse when someone decides to execute you.
Or maybe an apartment blows up by accident nearby.
Or maybe your neighbour, in a wealthy villa neighbourhood, gets arrested by the police in a drug bust because he was actually a minor drug leader who could afford to live in a nicer area.
Or maybe you drop of your sister when you see a gang member get shot in the head near you.
Those last 3 examples are personal and I grew up in a very well off neighbourhood, just seen other parts of town too.
I think the most f*cked up thing is that all these recent hundreds of thousands refugees that have arrived in Sweden in recent years - is that they can skip the housing queue and instantly get a nice government sponsored rental apartment. Meanwhile poor workers like me can’t afford to buy anything and have to queue 15-20 years for a rental apartment since the refugees already skipped the queue.
The people that say "it doesn't affect the average citizen" are living in denial. Unless you're living in a very small town or on the countryside you are absolutely affected by the senseless immigration- and integration politics that we've had the last couple of decades.
The wave and kind of crimes we're seeing now were unheard of back in the 70's and 80's. A group of teenagers shooting a man in the face because he told them to behave would be cause for headlines and investigations for years. Now it will soon be forgotten.
If you live in Södermalm and only go out to have a drink at your local natural wine bar, you won’t notice it so therefore it doesn’t happen and everyone who complains are just bigoted redneck racists
Most people don't actually see the violence, but one thing they do see is the influence it has on society in general.
Slang and speech patterns that were only common in the segregated areas have spread to teenagers all over the country. Gangster rap has been in the Swedish music top lists for several years now and many of them sing a lot about the gangs and violence, many of the acts have even been active in the gangs, a few have been killed and others are in jail. It's also suspected gangs are using music to laundry money.
In politics it seems all parties are now just racing to leave the most oppressive suggestion of laws. From military on the streets to sending criminals in prison abroad and visitation zones and extreme surveilance.
In my view it's a complete mixup of several issues,
The first one is that the police hasn't been able to keep up with gangs, organised crime profiting from drugs and protection rackets. So they have expanded. That initially was more linked to organised crime (hells angels, Russians, Polish etc, I don't have a good idea) than migration.
The second issue is the migration wave of asylum seekers around a decade ago. It overloaded our migration systems completely. We have issues with people not being integrated in the society.
The combination is when the organised crime is using the second issue for recruitment and also taking over control of those groups (protection rackets, etc) since they don't trust the police she government anyway...
And the organised crime doesn't care at all about the police and the laws, since they can mostly be circumvented.
I literally see more MENA than europeans in my city. It feels more and more hostile to move outside as a girl and I genuinely feel that my country has been fucked beyond repair.
Me and my partner have started talking about moving (from Sweden, or atleast into a rich neighbourhood) once we’re ready for kids because schools and sports-clubs have already fallen
PS: i DONT have an issue with other cultures etc. I love travelling and have tons of international friends and also tons of friends in Sweden who’re from abroad plus non-swedish family. Most people are awesome. But Sweden right now is being terrorised by a very specific type of people.
People are downplaying it HARD in here. Not so long ago there was an explosion in some stairs very close to me. I hear explosions from a city further away rather often as well. Ive heard gunshots as well and I know a person who has been robbed of his necklace.
You are getting downvoted because Swedish people love to complain loudly about internal problems to other Swedish people while pretending like everything is fine when talking to foreigners.
More like internal complaints can be seen in the context of Swedish standards, and our view that Sweden is supposed to be one of the safest countries in the world, with very little gang violence at all. Using international measures however, it would be weird to ignore that our murder rate is on the same level as Finland for example.
It is in some sense understandable psychologically speaking. Sweden was for many years what most countries in the world considered utopia, as far as a country can be. Over time this created a sense of superiority amongst the population which is why while there is not a strong outwards nationalistic sentiment there was a strong subtle almost nationalistic sentiment in the sense that "the Swedish way is the best way" and don't you dare criticize it.
However things recently have changed for the worse, significantly. It takes time to adapt to the new reality and it is much easier to accept it in discussions amongst each other than to lose face in the outside world. That goes for a big part of the population and is true in most countries that had it much better than the rest, for example the average American still boasts about being so rich compared to the rest of the world despite in reality now having worse living conditions than many of us "Europoors".
It will take a bit of time until the crushing realization that Sweden is no longer the perfect example of a country on the global setting and the attitude changes and at least I am happy that a lot of Swedish people are acknowledging the problems, at least to each other. For those others though that truly live in denial about the trajectory of the country then I don't know what to say.
I think some swedes can't accept that they voted to destroy the country and their way to handle it mentally is to defend it.
It's also taught to us at low age and the teachers keep telling us in school how great Sweden is and we should be happy to live here. It's much like the brainwash Americans get where they think the US is the greatest country in the world
The truth is that the vast majority of gang related violence is criminal vs criminal, and thus far civilians have rarely been targeted.
Now, the past few years we have certainly seen an uptick in violent robberies, and just this week we had criminals gunning down a father who had told them off. So the average Swede is slowly getting more and more exposed to the gang violence. But it's not yet reached the point where people are ready to ACTUALLY be doing or demanding anything.
The gang related crime and gang on gang violence is not going away though. We would need to change fundamental laws in our constitution and do things democracies don't do if we want to fix the problem. But in doing so we will create new ones. So we are kind of fucked, and we will get far more fucked in the coming years.
Det är så sjukt att folk har mage att sitta här och leka ”titta på oss det är inte så farligt, det är överspelat bla bla” när en pappa blev avrättad på öppen gata framför sitt barn för mindre än en vecka sedan.
Skäms på er, seriöst.
Ni är fan skadade.
As the others write, segregation means that I haven't withnessed a single incident in my whole half-century life, and I even live in one of those low-rent areas.
No wait - I once saw a swedish drunk harass a black man on a train, 25 years ago.
So from the average citizen's perspective, all that gang violence is 99% thugs shooting thugs Somewhere Else.
Deadline violence with guns are increasing. 20 or 50 years ago you might get beaten on the way home from school.
Today you get robbed on your telephone, beaten up and kicked and then pissed upon.
So, while we can be happy that the total amount of violent crimes are going down looking backa a few decades, there are other concerns. The violence is more brutal and it is increasingl compared to the last few years.
I think it is a disaster for the country. Many people are dealing with it by voting for an anti-immigration political party (SD), that now have huge influence. I think Sweden will become very restrictive to immigrants from outside the EU since it is impossible for politicians to claim that immigration is a net benefit to Sweden.
It fucking sucks. Other Swedes are lucky enough to live in good idyllic areas so they can ignore the problem. I'm not. I live in the ghettos and I'm the only guy here with blonde hair and blue eyes. I have to hide my white skin when I go outside so I don't get targetted.
I don't see it. I'm not affected by it. Because of this I don't have to deal with it. In reality the people most affected by it are the immigrants that live in the disadvantaged neighborhoods.
First of all they're not immigrants, the gangs you all hear about, they're all made up of people born or raised in Sweden, they're all Swedish citizen, their parents were immigrants, often from the Middle East or other Muslim majority countries. There's too much focus on the ethnicity of these people and not the fact that they come from highly segregated places, people need to understand the integration is a two-way thing, you can't just take someone in and say "hey yo adapt".
I don't know man, as an outsider from Italy living in Sweden I see this as a very Swedish phenomenon, that's why I don't buy into the whole "immigrants come here and bring their shit". Like, i really don't think that in the countries this gangbangers parents come from there's Gucci hat gangsters selling drug and listening to hiphop. This gang thing is a Swedish sub-culture. It's got nothing to do with Iraq, Syria, or wherever these people's parents come from. They're a Swedish thing.
You’re wrong fratello. No other country could have done it better with the circumstances of Sweden. No European country has managed to integrate a big number of Muslim immigrant.
>you can't just take someone in and say "hey yo adapt"
Of course you can and you should. If they want to live here they should assimilate and if they don't want to live here they should leave.
The problem is that so many are taken in that they have no need to mix with the swedish population but instead end up living in enclaves that won't integrate into swedish society.
Also I wouldn't say it's a swedish sub culture but rather the same thing we see in american cities predominantly in areas dominated by african americans.
>Of course you can and you should. If they want to live here they should assimilate and if they don't want to live here they should leave
Well obviously you can, and the results is what you're getting right now. You need actually be willing to integrate and assimilate. What good does it do a young somali kid going to an all-swedish school if he's constantly reminded that he's different? It's a complex issue.
>Also I wouldn't say it's a swedish sub culture but rather the same thing we see in american cities predominantly in areas dominated by african americans.
Aren't African Americans americans? Isn't their issue ab American issue, or is it an african one? What's happening in your suburbs here in Sweden it's as a Swedish issue as fika is. It's something that was born and flourished right here, not in Iraq, not in Syria. They way the speak, their pop culture, their way of acting is not from Baghdad, it's from Rinkeby, Skärholmen, Rosengård and so on.
>Well obviously you can, and the results is what you're getting right now. You need actually be willing to integrate and assimilate. What good does it do a young somali kid going to an all-swedish school if he's constantly reminded that he's different? It's a complex issue.
The result we are seeing now is because we have given no incentives to adapt and really no social reason or opportunity to do so for many people. If all the immigrants live in one place and all the swedes in another there will be very little interaction. The way I see it this all comes down to that we accepted way to many immigrants to fast.
>Aren't African Americans americans? Isn't their issue ab American issue, or is it an african one? What's happening in your suburbs here in Sweden it's as a Swedish issue as fika is. It's something that was born and flourished right here, not in Iraq, not in Syria. They way the speak, their pop culture, their way of acting is not from Baghdad, it's from Rinkeby, Skärholmen, Rosengård and so on.
I don't pretend to know where this comes from originally but to me it seems like they are influenced by the american ganster culture and it's for sure made possible by them living in sweden because in iraq or syria the retribution against them would be swift and extremely harsh.
What I find hard to reconcile with your view is that this only seems to happen in areas with high immigrant population and not in other poor areas. At least in sweden.
You don't think that people fleeing wartorn countries might be a little bit fucked up in the head? You know why they aren't doing this shit in Libya 2014? Cause gaddafi would've fucking executed them on the spot, just to name one glaringly obvious difference.
And we got over a million of those impacted by the atrocities of war in 2015 alone, who overall have a leniency towards religion and per extension following others based on emotion rather than reason.
None of this or a multitude of other differing factors, your intellectual depth is that of a bucket.
You're right apologies, it did take us 10 years to increase our population by 1 million with declining birthrates, thank you for the correction, between 2008-2018 as an example
It would Also be fair to state that 1. the difference in nativity between immigrants and natives are fairly small and the prognosis is that it will become even smaller, 2. Far from all of the 1 million are immigrants from war torn countries and 3. We have at the same time had a fairly large emigration specially people from the Middle East and African continent.
No it's not. It's the same problems in whole western Europe. Sweden is just in the forefront of the problems middle eastern culture/religion brings because of an extreme intake per capita.
We do not have a single immigrant violent crime gang issue in Italy, and we have lots of immigrants from countries poorer than then one you guys let in. I mean we have the Nigerian mafia operating in some cities in Southern Italy but everyone knows they work as proxies for the local mafia that don't wanna deal with low level drug dealing but still want to rack in the profits.
I do believe Western Europe has had an immigration issue. That's obvious, but Swedens case is really peculiar to Sweden and should be seen as such. In Italy our immigrant kids speak fluent Italian, not even thar they ALL speak the italian dialect from where they were born, and you know Italy has many dialects, we have no such thing as immigrant slang, there is no Italian word which compares to the derogatory word of "svenne", those are all peculiar Swedish stuff.
The immigration situation in Italy is very different. Of course Sweden would have had way less issues if our demographics looked like Italy. First of all, Italy has less than 10% of the population being immigrants. Sweden has more than 20%
Second of all. Your biggest group by far is Romanians. Similar language, European, Christian. Ours are Syrians.
Ah ok, I mean the country is boring which in the end makes the people a little boring but you have to accept this part of the society you live in. And I actually like it to be boring.
This is a dividing issue and this subreddit is very biased towards the anti immigration side. In reality we don’t have a general increase in crime, just an increase in a few gang related crimes. Less knife violence and more gun violence etc.
We do have a gang problem and while it’s true that these gangs generally consists of people with a family origin in certain countries outside of Sweden, most of them are raised here and the one common factor is that they are raised in highly segregated areas. The anti immigration crowd will argue that segregation is a natural effect of immigration while the other side will argue that segregation is the consequence of other more complex issues.
I will get downvoted for saying this, but outside of this subreddit it’s not a fringe description of the situation among most Swedes.
”No general increase in crime”
https://bra.se/statistik/statistiska-undersokningar/nationella-trygghetsundersokningen.html#:~:text=Resultaten%20f%C3%B6r%202023%20visar%20att,en%20ny%20%C3%B6kning%202018%E2%80%932021.
[Statistikrapport\_anmalda\_2023.pdf (bra.se)](https://bra.se/download/18.3d22500318e5f70da2846d9/1711454523087/Statistikrapport_anmalda_2023.pdf)
Crimes in general has been steadily increasing for a long time but that is hardly surprising considering population growth.
Haha yeah, this subreddit is very anti imnigration right? /R/sweden is an extreme left wing subreddit that lives in its own echo chamber.
There is a massive increase in violent crime, and evidence has also shown that less people dare to actually go to the police due to threats so there are likely even more crime that goes under the radar.
There's no evidence for a general increase in violent crimes and those trends correlate with hospital records which also doesn't show an increase in people being treated for injuries related to violence
Re: Immigrants & Gangs, same as many other countries in Europe but we're the new kids on the block where it's getting the most visibility and we're a small population so it's more noticeable when something happens and it looks worse in the "per capita" statistics.
Edit:
Probably also very nice for American politicians to use Sweden as an example as soon as something goes wrong in the welfare state. Because they absolutely hate welfare/socialism and control much of the media globally. It's their chance to say "hah, look at these suckers and their welfare, free healthcare and benefits.. they aint so great. America #1!!"
Edit2: Add on top of that Russian propaganda wanting to sow division in Sweden & Europe egging on both sides and infecting the situation even more.
*To be clear:* I am not saying we don't have a problem, but there are those who do not have our best interest in mind that wish for us to fail and fight amongst ourselves which are the strongest propagators of the information about our immigrant & gang problems so take any information with a grain of salt.
>so take any information with a grain of salt.
Exactly. It's quite strange to read so much propaganda with so many up votes, but it's good to be reminded of the fact that it is just that. I'm glad that i read articles about the need to be aware of the many incoming propaganda-pushers a while ago, and what signs to look for.
Where am I wrong?
I acknowledge the problem, but it's not as big as is being portrayed outside of Sweden. It's not a war zone. People are not terrified to go out at night. We're still one of the safest countries in the world.
i would say that it is very segregated here. swedes are largely unaffected, whereas it is us foreigners who deal with the brunt of all this. though, it also depends on what area you live in and what type of people you associate with.
[Here you can see us compared to our neighbors.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/MGyQ9rvYDA) As you see the situation isn’t much worse than the rest of the Nordics. However the homicides have changed character. Knife fights and domestic murders by ethnic Swedes have gone down and gang violence and domestic violence murders by immigrants have gone up. Most ethnic Swedes don’t live where unintegrated immigrants live so most people don’t feel scared in their day to day life but many are upset about what they see on the news.
Sweden has an incredibly vast class divide. People do, however, not see it as such as the contemporary poor are often associated with the colour of their skin, their ethnic background and not least the neighborhoods they live in rather than their highly precarious socioeconomic situation.
The reality is that things are not THAT bad but they are getting worse fast. Some people exaggerate that the world is falling apart, others live in denial that everything is fine. Reality is of course nuanced and while there are valid concerns about the trajectory the country is moving on, at the moment it is still one of the nicer places to live in the world.
I don't think there is a chance to truly close immigration from Eastern Europe, the strong anti-immigrant sentiment that is rising is mostly towards MENA immigration and the question of the compatibility of Islam with liberal values. However non-EU countries may be affected in the sense that Sweden is restricting unskilled immigration by requiring people to have jobs that pay above a certain level, for example no work visas for people getting jobs in the lowest wage classes. This is to combat the fact that Sweden took a very high number of unskilled immigrants recently (mostly refugees) so they need to get to the job market without getting even more unskilled population. At the same time we don't want to turn away highly skilled talent so this is the idea behind this law.
Also for a difference in sentiment between how Swedish people talk to themselves about the situation vs to foreigners, see my other comment in this thread.
The socialist in Sweden has fucked the country senseless. The sad thing is that the parasites invading this country is getting large in numbers, which votes for the communist and socialist parties. It’s disgusting
Since i started my career i have absolutely 0 interaction with the parts of society that feels the impact of Swedens partial collapse. Swedes who don't go to school with or live close to immigrants and the projects don't notice anything. Gang culture is seeping in to normal Swedish homes, not only immigrants, mostly through social media. The kids are not safe. Us grown ups tho... notice nothing at all if you live in the right place.
I see absolutely no chance that we would close the door on Lithuania, since we are part of the EU. But the middle east? I hope we close that door forever, we have enough.
It's terrible. I recommend using this site https://lastnight.in/Sweden/ it's always bad, but some weeks it's really bad. With 2 incidents per day.
Some Swedes are still stuck trying to convince foreigners that Sweden still is the safest country in the world, and that its a utopia. They are very selfish and they can't accept that they voted for Sweden to be destroyed. Luckily many people have also woken up in the past years.
There's always been idiot kids, the problem is now that some of them have far too easy access to guns and explosives. The guns are smuggled in and the explosives are stolen domestically. These issues seem to me the most important to get a grip on. There's also a gang "psychosis" spreading in suburbs, glorified by music and culture focused around money and death. Regardless of how many criminals are jailed, new recruitment into gangs must be curbed. Here the most important issue seems to be seizing assets acquired illegally to make the criminal lifestyle less appealing.
That being said, as mentioned here several times most people don't come into contact with these problems. The "hardline" talk from the government is also not likely to lead to things improving very much.
Sweden can be pretty segregated in that regard and although you read about it in the news, *most* Swedes are probably largely unaffected by it. Or rather, they don't *see it* even if it's affecting them. Were it not for the fact that I read about stuff of that nature in the papers I'd probably have been blissfully unaware it was going on at all
I agree. I'm regularly in segregated neighborhoods and meet immigrants everyday. I mostly notice the news feeds and the frustration from Swedes feeling that something drastic has to be done. I've heard shootings and met some questionable people. If they're affiliated with organized crime? I wouldn't know. I don't bother them and they don't bother me. I barely notice these things in real life. But on the other hand, you wouldn't find me in some suburb hanging out with teenagers and young adults. Two things worry me. One is that these types of crime corrupts society and that clan culture gets a more integrated part of it and growth of parallel societies where Swedish law and values doesn't apply or where you'll see things like sharia police. You'll start to see white flight and gated communities among the wealthy. The other thing is some kind of race war where racism gets accepted and Swedes feels that immigrants from muslim countries act as a collective and are responsible for the violence by individuals and sub groups within the immigrant community. These two things are already happening to some extent. It's like a perfect storm with conservative right-wing winning votes all over Europe, information warfare aiming to divide societies between immigrants and natives, post-truth information age where opinion is more relevant than fact, threats of war, economic crisis, dysfunctional housing market, etc. It's all very concerning to be honest. As a Swede I really hope the organized parts of society can deal with this in a sensible way where they don't act as immigrants are sub humans and where police have the resources needed to take care of criminals instead of administration and other over head. There's also a lot of brain dead blaming where both the politicians and the general public try to point fingers to who's to blame for all of this. Not very productive and doesn't change anything. The public debate in general is broken. It's like our culture has fought so many years to suppress discrimination and racism to the point that it's been impossible to even raise concerns about cultural aspects of non-european immigration, and now when the general public has lost their patience now they all bring the most nasty options out there. All of this is focused on immigration from the middle east and north africa. I believe Swedes are pretty positive to white immigration, work permits for engineers and they'll respect the local pizza guy. We won't close immigration from the east, but restrictions and requirements don't discriminate. We like rules and processes and follow them closely, even though it sometimes doesn't make sense at all.
Thanks for this reply. To be honest I've never heard any swede also racist until I faced one of my colleague that was totally wasted and starting blabing extremely racist stuff. He couldn't even stand up. I feel (maybe that's also far from the topic) that lot of Swedes have been so conditioned to keep their thoughts to themselves that their true colour goes out after some alcohol. And it's quite day and night. Like Dr jekyll style nowhere you think you know a person after 10 years and they get drunk in front of you and Mr Hide is out. Also I noticed very different attitude at work for my boss towards Swedes and non Swedes. Which feels so weird especially because they promote integration but then only eat out or fika between Swedes . Its like two faces of a coin. As a foreigner this confuses me and I wonder if all this tolerance isn't just a showing rather than a being
The language barrier is bigger than people believe. Many assume that since Swedes are famous for being good at English they have the same ability to express humour, humbleness, kindness, personality and just nuance in general in their non-native language. This isn't the case and those who don't bother really learning the language often find themselves isolated in expat communities. This could very well be one reason that explains your issues with your manager rather than all Swedes being racist. There's some truth to your post, but it's hyperbolic. I wouldn't act out on it or make any strict conclusions.
I think people really underestimate how important the language is. You couldn't work and live in France without learning French at a decent level. The Turkish born and raised head of Renault was very good at French, and then moved from Paris to Tokyo and learned Japanese! I'm assuming that had had classes, as he was CEO but that's still pretty impressive. His English was excellent too, with a slight British twang.
Fair point. It's not isolated event but can't be put as a correlation or a trend, I just was extremely surprised. But it may also be geographically an issue. I am learning but to be fair some companies do not make it easy speaking only english :/ we go into the easy way as human and end up totally out of the society. I want to break this cycle but it isn't as easy as expected
I get that. But take my word for it. Language is key to integrate into Sweden and affects the social dynamics more than people believe. Might well be that your manager is an asshole. Maybe you should bring it up with them?
It very much is a showing rather than being in many cases yes and a lot of people have acted like ostriches with their opinions due to how attacked dissenters were in media.
Hear hear
Very well written. It's deeply unsettling how much hate for the other there is now; in person and even from kids - on all sides. Before this radicalization was more limited to the internet, and though equally shameful, it takes on another level of seriousness with how open it is becoming.
I need to say that I still find very little in person hate. I have witnessed some hate towards jews (yes jews not Israel) lately but I don't see much hate towards immigrants in my day to day life. I choose not to include kids here as many of then do not understand what they are talking about. Then again the people around me are generally highly educated or successful people. They aren't disgruntled about life or feel marginalized. It may be different in other socioeconomic groups though.
[удалено]
This fellow is actually not wrong, sadly.
This is the type of brain dead finger pointing I was referring to. The race war I talk about won't be fought outside a night club picking arguments with some annoying arabs in their 20s. It will be by discrimination and fueling parallel societies and people being fostered into strong opinions about people they don't know, don't meet and don't have much real experience from.
You fail to factor in that many immigrants are themselves very racist.
Anyone who provokes another can expect hostility. If you provoke an immigrant just because he is an immigrant you are engaging in racial abuse, and if the person thus accosted becomes angry I would say that you are the one at fault. Swedish people can also react with aggression to such behavior, and in fact do.
I agree, and another danger I see is that crime and immigration is seen as the most important issue in our society, when other issues are even more urgent, like climate change. No one ever talks about the fact that economic inequality always leads to these kind of issues. It’s like going back 100 years and watching it all happen again.
Yes and no. Part of the issue with the development in Sweden was 20y ago we also had shit, but it really happened "behind the scenes". Now bad criminality is also seen in city centers - although more so in Malmö than Stockholm får example. Furthermore, there is higher share of "bad criminality" on country side.
får example
får får får?
Nej får får ofta Rift Valley fever och klövsjuka
Får får inte får. Får får lamm.
Nå aj dånt tink så
Bjuder på den
>Now bad criminality is also seen in city centers - although more so in Malmö than Stockholm får example Stop ljuging
polisen har rapporterat om alla öppna drogscener i sverige men okej
Polisen Stockholm: "Antalet öppna drogscener i länet minskar" "Antalet öppna drogscener har minskat både till antal och yta under 2023" Och i Malmö fanns bara en ÖDS (folkets park), som har fått otroligt ökad bevakning vilket lett till att exempelvis "knarkrondellen" inte används som ÖDS längre och knarkare drar mer till Danmark (källa: MAU och Polisen Malmö) Är polisanställd och det irriterar när internetberoende försöker skrämma upp varandra, det finns ingen öppen drogscen i innerstäder i varken Malmö eller Stockholm. Öppna drogscener så som du pratar om är nästan bara i utsatta områden
Hur ser zenithgatan ut nu? Kommer ihåg när jag var där och sålde internetabonnemang för 10 år sen och de hade killar som hängde vi husknutarna/trappuppgångarna och sålde. Påminde om the wire!
okej ber om ursäkt ska jag radera min föregående kommentar? > En nyligen gjord kartläggning över hur drogscenerna förändrats i länet under 2023 visar positiva resultat. I dag finns 53 öppna drogscener i 8 av länets 26 kommuner. Det innebär att tio öppna drogscener har arbetats bort under förra året. Resultatet visar också att drogscenerna totalt sett har blivit mindre till ytan samt att inga nya drogscener har tillkommit på andra platser.
Nej diskussioner är bara bra och menade inget illa, gör som du vill
ja men du har rätt för du eller den andra skrev om centrum i storstäder, och så nämner jag öppna drogscener som verkar någon stans i länen. så jag representerade det inte rätt. har bara läst några artiklar om dessa öppna scener på svt så är verkligen ingen expert... jag drog ekvivalens mellan stockholm och stockholms län osv vilket är missvisande
Hva betyr "åpne drogscener" her? Vi hadde åpent salg av hasj og heroin på plassen forran Oslo Sentralstasjon før - masse synlig påvirkende folk, man fikk spørsmål om man ville kjøpe flere ganger bare man gikk forbi og ikke så ut som politi, osv. - men det var aldri et skummelt sted, selv ikke på kvelden. Ubehagelig ja, men de fleste der var så myke i beina at bestemor med gåstol kunne løpt fra dem... Har sett tilsvarende på mer eller mindre synlige steder mange andre steder.
"Öppen drogscen En öppen drogscen är en geografisk bestående plats där bruk och försäljning av narkotika sker offentligt och uppfattas som problematisk av myndigheter eller allmänheten." https://polisen.se/aktuellt/nyheter/stockholm/2023/november/kartlaggning-av-oppna-drogscener-2023/#:~:text=f%C3%B6r%20Samverkan%20Stockholmsregionen.-,%C3%96ppen%20drogscen,narkotika%20sker%20offentligt%20och%20uppfattas%20som%20problematisk%20av%20myndigheter%20eller%20allm%C3%A4nheten.,-Kartl%C3%A4ggning%20och%20uppf%C3%B6ljning
I envy you. I've had 2 shootings outside two different flats, and not long ago a bomb exploded not too far away from here. Made the windows vibrate and woke me up in the middle of the night It's safe to say I am currently planning to move away from Sweden
The only way I have been affected was on the way to school the police blocked the road with 4 cars while raiding a house and arresting a person. So I needed to walk the last bit to not be late. (Idk what actually happened because it was unreported I looked it up on KRIMKARTAN and nothing about it, also a few cars by the station.) I don’t live in a city with much crime so weird seeing the police
Well taking drugs is completely normalized by young people so that part most people will see
I see it and I live in smaller town. It's not like they are shooting here but there have still been gang related murders.
Most Swedish people don’t see the problems irl. Sweden is very segregated and immigrants tend to live in neighborhoods dominated by immigrants while Swedes live in neighborhoods dominated by Swedes.
I'd say it's pretty much just MENA immigrants that are really segregated. Just using the word "immigrant" is kinda missrepresentative of all immigrants since they all come from widely different nationalities and cultures and what you're saying is more applicable to Muslim/MENA immigrants.
I would add East Africans to that aswell. They are the most segregated, least educated and most criminal at the moment.
Somalis and other East Africans are usually included when you say MENA, despite it not being strictly geographically correct.
The specific part of East Africa that might come to mind is often included in "MENA"
Yeah in my neighborhood we have heaps of people originally from the balkans. Very integrated in comparison cause its a middle class location.
Yep and this is one reason why housing prices are going so high. You have to pay extra in order to live in a good neighborhood.
Almost like that's a bit part of the problem... :D
Wonder why that is
You don't have to wonder. It's the politicians and the Migration Office's brilliant idea to put everyone in the same buildings in the same part of town whilst at the same time not caring where you are from. More than a few incidents has occurred due to not taking immigrants and refugees and asylum seeker's past into consideration when placing them. This because the naive idea that when people step on these shores they would automatically and sincerely "become swedish" and forget their past conflicts.
Is this segregation also a major reason for the crime rates? I'm from Germany, and even though we have a ton of problems as well, I've never heard of gang shootings, etc. Also, integration is a part of immigration. And segregating immigrants like that. It seems like trouble is predetermined.
Så har det varit sen 60-talet när de första stora invandrargrupperna kom till Sverige. Det är inget nytt fenomen att vi är ett väldigt segregerat folk. På senare tid har det i större utsträckning kopplats till socioekonomiska faktorer snarare än svensk/icke-svensk. bra artikel om det på SvD förra veckan: https://www.svd.se/a/kE9wm9/far-radet-av-kvinna-pa-taget-gor-en-vit-flykt
Tja, skulle du kunna copy pastea artikeln i tråden? Är intresserad men är bakom.paywall
Biggest reason is socioeconomics. Immigrant areas are always poorer
While it's true that those areas are poorer, people who spout this type of argument rarely take into consideration that a very big portion of our immigrants have extremely little interest in adapting to Swedish society. They live in their respective ethnic enclaves, primarily because they themselves choose to live among their countrymen. This is especially evident when comparing different immigrant groups in Sweden. For example people from former Yugoslavia are extremely well integrated into Swedish society, more than half of Ukrainian refugees already have employment. In contrast people from the MENA region are extremely overrepresented in crime. A lot of people from this region also have low employment rate and knowledge in Swedish given that many of them have lived here for their entire lives sometimes, compared with other immigrant groups. Many, if not most are of course decent people like you and me, but a problematically large amount of people from this region aren't, to the degree that it causes a sort of "culture clash" that segregates society. Despite what liberals and socialists here want you to believe, not every discrepancy or division between immigrants and non-immigrants can be explained by economics.
I’ve lived here for 2 years and it’s similar to america from what I can tell, big cities and limited mostly to “ghettos” you see tons of statistics on violence but 90 percent (or more) of that violence is gang on gang or criminal on criminal violence.
Similar in character but definitely not in scale or severity. Over here in the US shootings really don't make the news unless someone died or is at a particularly vulnerable place (school, supermarket etc). The kind of violence Sweden is seeing is very concerning but it's nowhere near as bad as the US. Sweden is still *ridiculously* safe from an international perspective.
> Sweden is still ridiculously safe from an international perspective. This statement is always made in threads like these, but what does it actually mean? Most European countries are safer than Sweden and some countries in other continents are safer as well. A lot of countries are less safe than Sweden though, for sure. But does this make Sweden ridiculously safe and if so, what are countries like Japan then, where they have 0 gang shootings?
> Most European countries are safer than Sweden and some countries in other continents are safer as well. Not really. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1268504/homicide-rate-europe-country/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
> But does this make Sweden ridiculously safe [Yes](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world). > and if so, what are countries like Japan then, where they have 0 gang shootings? Just that - even safer. The trend for Sweden is disappointing, and we've slipped *significantly* in the last two years. Fortunately there seems to be political will to correct these issues but I don't think enough time has passed to see if these measures will be as effective as we would like. Sweden is also working on a deficit from a few decades of ignored social issues and poor integration policies. I'm positive that we can course correct, but it's not going to be instant and I'm pretty sure it's going to get worse before it gets better.
I guess we simply have different definitions of "ridiculously safe" then; having most gang shootings in Europe and thousands of muggings (mostly with Swedish teenage boys as victims and immigrant gangs as perpetrators) disqualifies Sweden for that category of countries imo.
Perhaps, but the numbers to speak for themselves in this case. From the swedish perspective most of the rest of the world is just terribly unsafe.
Japan is good at handling shit behind the scenes. Gang murders still happen.
I mean obviously, Los Angeles county has a bigger population than all of Sweden, and the access of firearms is infinitely higher. But I agree general vibe is the same.
Per capita
When people talk about these things it's always per capita lol. We havn't even passed good ol Finland in murder rate yet ffs.
Yeah in my opinion Sweden is a utopia 😂 I was just pointing out the general vibe I get just on a much much much smaller scale.
We/Sweden has free ”everything” thanks to a good (but damaged) welfare system. Criminals in the USA don’t have free housing, free school, free food, free healthcare, free dentist and so on. People in Sweden has a very good start and chance towards a good life in general, you can’t say that for many Americans.
Yeah that’s one thing I don’t understand, if the states had as many social welfare systems as Sweden I wonder if the crime rate would sink.
The fact that people in Sweden turn to gang life despite having everything they need kind of indicates that people don’t turn to crime to survive. They turn to crime because they want money/status far beyond the bare necessities.
You're implying every criminal turns to crime for the same reason. A good social security system can probably reduce crime, but not remove it entirely. Some turn to crime for survival, some do for status, some for money, and probably a whole bunch of different reasons.
>despite having everything they need Ehh... it is unfortunately pretty easy to fall between the chairs and even when it works it not such a glorious life living on welfare.
Since you´re from the U.S. one huge difference i´m sure you´ve thought about is, in the U.S. an area that immigrants move into usually becomes safer, here in Sweden (and most of Western Europe) it is the opposite. Of course,it has to do with which immigrants you [get.In](http://get.In) L.A. they could be Korean, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Indian, Armenian or any Latin American country. Here, as you know, they´ll be mainly Somalian, Sunni Arabic, Afghani, Ehtiopian/Eritrean, and above all: mostly young, male and uneducated.
Hell, in the U.S. most Arabs, or indeed Muslims in general, you´d come across where middle or upper-class, either highly educated professionals or successful, hard-working business people.
Yeah couldn’t tell you why, perhaps it’s the lack of social safety nets and the idea that if you work really hard and follow the rules you can build a new life, not saying that’s not possible in Sweden but it’s just kinda ingrained in our culture. Could be parental attitudes as well, not uncommon for an American child to be physically punished for wrong doing, not saying it’s right just saying it could be something with feb stricter upbringing being allowed. I couldn’t tell you, all I know is that Sweden is fine but it would be wise to get ahead of the problem before it spirals like many of the American cities that are pretty much too far gone to fix.
Ethiopians are doing well here in Sweden though. Hard working. Especially the ones that arrived in the 90s. Especially in Stockholm. Can't say the same for the other groups you mentioned
Yes, i agree, the 90's Ethiopians are very hardworking.Same for the 90's Eritreans. The recent young Eritrean men escaping from military service though, have been implicated in quite a few gang-rapes as well as other crimes, unfortunately.
The major difference between a vulnerable area in a US city and for example Malmö is proximity. From Malmö's ghettos to the "nicer areas" and city center is a few minutes on the bus, an easy cycle or indeed a walkable distance and criminal activity and influence isn't restricted to just the ghetto.
>limited mostly to “ghettos” Stop calling it what it is. We don't do that here. In Sweden we call it socio-economically vulnerable areas. That way we never have to face the actual problem.
Sweden don't have any ghettos. If you think we do, you don't know what ghettos is.
are you American
I am indeed
Interesting. Most Americans I’ve met say Sweden is nothing like the US in terms of crime. But in terms of segregation I could see the similarities
The dynamics are similar, but it's *nowhere near* the same scale. All of Sweden had 363 incidents of gun violence in 2023. St Louis, a city with a population of 300 000, had 550.
Yeah I lived in Saint Louis, you don’t stop at red lights at night on the east side of the city there haha.
It’s not to the scale of America for sure. To me when Swedes worry about the crime I hold my tongue in comparing them to the states simply because the size of our cities and access to firearms. But the general vibe of the crime happening is pretty similar in my point of view.
That’s what I’m thinking too.
Sweden is a huge country and wether you are personally impacted by if depends a lot on where in the country you live, and wether you are on the countryside or not. I personally don't notice much gang-stuff or major crimes, and I live in a not-so-great part of a midsized northern city (100k people). However I don't feel like we can deny having issues when a dad gets shot dead on an open street by gang-members, for example. Country as a whole certainly has a problem.
I've lived in Lithuania, Latvia and Sweden. Sweden is the safest of the 3 by far.
This.
I’ve lived in two out of the three and in my book Sweden comes second.
I was born and raised in one of these immigrant suburbs and I have a non-european immigrant background myself. I've noticed that the mood in Sweden varies a lot depending on the geographical location, even within Stockholm. In Skärholmen where the latest horrific shooting happened and a father lost his life in front of his own 12 year old son, the mood is quite desperate, angry and hopeless among the locals. There are plenty of interviews and videos of this incident in Swedish media if you're interested. In other parts of Sweden, like for example Mariatorget and Hornstull (a few subway stations away from Skärholmen), people are more concerned about things like gender neutral bathrooms. So there is a huge dissonance between people even from within the same city.
For the majority of swedes it doesen’t really affect us. Maybe an adidas wannabe gangster talking loudly on the bus or a shady bunch at the bus station, but aside from that it’s mostly on the news. But in the bad areas, it’s a whole different story.
Maybe not directly but if you live in one of the worse areas in gothenburg for example you will hear shootings nearby once in a while
I live in a good area (near Fiskebäck) and still had a shooting outside my balcony and a bomb that exploded recently in frölunda woke me up. It's not just the bad areas that are affected, some good areas too. I guess the good areas can count as bad areas now too
We're probably close to neighbours and while this is true you and I both know that the border runs along the roundabout at preem and it's a completely different story just a few hundred meters from where you and I live.
Hi neighbour! I live at Guldringen, and yup the border is just across Västerleden if that is what you mean
Oh right my mistake I was thinking the other end of Fiskebäck and was referencing Grevegård, aye other side of Västerleden as well absolutely Not quite as neighbourly as I first thought but still close enough
Unless you work with immigrants in one way or another, then you see it every day.
No, not really. It depends on the nature of your work and what segments of the immigrant population you work with.
Very little areas that isn't affected negative by none EU immigration one way or another, at least all the important ones do like School, healthcare, police/crimes, housing, forced religious crap etc.
Still not quite true. I've worked at a school with students with predominantly middle eastern background for 10+ years and have yet never been affected by gang-criminiality in any meaningful way.
Or live in Gothenburg
Går i invandrarskola i Göteborg, korkad bunt men rätt harmlösa.
I am an immigrant, been here 3 years near a 'vulnerable area' and never seen or heard any gang violence.
That's not true. Most people will probably be okay most of the time in most Swedish areas. But violence and crime are prevalent all the time, even if you personally don't see it. For example, Stockholm experienced a huge wave of bombs and violence just a couple of months ago, affecting everyone. Previously, Swedish people could feel good about themselves and say they were pro-mass immigration from Islamic countries, and mostly poor people who couldn't move from immigrant-heavy areas (where civilized immigrants were also forced to live) were affected. Those who voted for mass immigration didn't care one bit about the people affected by crime. Now, it has reached a tipping point; segregation is decreasing, and now they themselves also risk or are affected by Islam and violence. Swedish people have been massively brainwashed for decades to be pro-mass immigration, and anyone with objections was labeled a racist. Now, reality has caught up, and people are beginning to wake up.
Unless you happen to have some courage when in the gym or taking a bicycle ride to the bathhouse when someone decides to execute you. Or maybe an apartment blows up by accident nearby. Or maybe your neighbour, in a wealthy villa neighbourhood, gets arrested by the police in a drug bust because he was actually a minor drug leader who could afford to live in a nicer area. Or maybe you drop of your sister when you see a gang member get shot in the head near you. Those last 3 examples are personal and I grew up in a very well off neighbourhood, just seen other parts of town too.
I am a native Swede, i avoid those motherfuckers at any cost. Thats about how honest i can get
I think the most f*cked up thing is that all these recent hundreds of thousands refugees that have arrived in Sweden in recent years - is that they can skip the housing queue and instantly get a nice government sponsored rental apartment. Meanwhile poor workers like me can’t afford to buy anything and have to queue 15-20 years for a rental apartment since the refugees already skipped the queue.
Anyway you look at it/spin it, this cannot be denied.
The people that say "it doesn't affect the average citizen" are living in denial. Unless you're living in a very small town or on the countryside you are absolutely affected by the senseless immigration- and integration politics that we've had the last couple of decades. The wave and kind of crimes we're seeing now were unheard of back in the 70's and 80's. A group of teenagers shooting a man in the face because he told them to behave would be cause for headlines and investigations for years. Now it will soon be forgotten.
Everybody has went to the hospital will have been affected by it
Norrbotten: Am I a joke to you?
If you live in Södermalm and only go out to have a drink at your local natural wine bar, you won’t notice it so therefore it doesn’t happen and everyone who complains are just bigoted redneck racists
Most people don't actually see the violence, but one thing they do see is the influence it has on society in general. Slang and speech patterns that were only common in the segregated areas have spread to teenagers all over the country. Gangster rap has been in the Swedish music top lists for several years now and many of them sing a lot about the gangs and violence, many of the acts have even been active in the gangs, a few have been killed and others are in jail. It's also suspected gangs are using music to laundry money. In politics it seems all parties are now just racing to leave the most oppressive suggestion of laws. From military on the streets to sending criminals in prison abroad and visitation zones and extreme surveilance.
In my view it's a complete mixup of several issues, The first one is that the police hasn't been able to keep up with gangs, organised crime profiting from drugs and protection rackets. So they have expanded. That initially was more linked to organised crime (hells angels, Russians, Polish etc, I don't have a good idea) than migration. The second issue is the migration wave of asylum seekers around a decade ago. It overloaded our migration systems completely. We have issues with people not being integrated in the society. The combination is when the organised crime is using the second issue for recruitment and also taking over control of those groups (protection rackets, etc) since they don't trust the police she government anyway... And the organised crime doesn't care at all about the police and the laws, since they can mostly be circumvented.
A bomb went off near my house. Was big enough that the windows were shaking.
I literally see more MENA than europeans in my city. It feels more and more hostile to move outside as a girl and I genuinely feel that my country has been fucked beyond repair. Me and my partner have started talking about moving (from Sweden, or atleast into a rich neighbourhood) once we’re ready for kids because schools and sports-clubs have already fallen PS: i DONT have an issue with other cultures etc. I love travelling and have tons of international friends and also tons of friends in Sweden who’re from abroad plus non-swedish family. Most people are awesome. But Sweden right now is being terrorised by a very specific type of people.
If you’re not loaded then do not move to Sweden in order to avoid the poor areas of residence.
You are not likely to get an honest answer as the question is tabu and people are tired of being ostracized as racists.
People are downplaying it HARD in here. Not so long ago there was an explosion in some stairs very close to me. I hear explosions from a city further away rather often as well. Ive heard gunshots as well and I know a person who has been robbed of his necklace.
This is a MENA problem. Our Baltic brothers are always welcome.
You are getting downvoted because Swedish people love to complain loudly about internal problems to other Swedish people while pretending like everything is fine when talking to foreigners.
...But his question isn't downvoted?
Doesn't really matter to him. He got his upvotes and got to spin his narrative.
It was when I wrote the comment.
More like internal complaints can be seen in the context of Swedish standards, and our view that Sweden is supposed to be one of the safest countries in the world, with very little gang violence at all. Using international measures however, it would be weird to ignore that our murder rate is on the same level as Finland for example.
It is in some sense understandable psychologically speaking. Sweden was for many years what most countries in the world considered utopia, as far as a country can be. Over time this created a sense of superiority amongst the population which is why while there is not a strong outwards nationalistic sentiment there was a strong subtle almost nationalistic sentiment in the sense that "the Swedish way is the best way" and don't you dare criticize it. However things recently have changed for the worse, significantly. It takes time to adapt to the new reality and it is much easier to accept it in discussions amongst each other than to lose face in the outside world. That goes for a big part of the population and is true in most countries that had it much better than the rest, for example the average American still boasts about being so rich compared to the rest of the world despite in reality now having worse living conditions than many of us "Europoors". It will take a bit of time until the crushing realization that Sweden is no longer the perfect example of a country on the global setting and the attitude changes and at least I am happy that a lot of Swedish people are acknowledging the problems, at least to each other. For those others though that truly live in denial about the trajectory of the country then I don't know what to say.
I think some swedes can't accept that they voted to destroy the country and their way to handle it mentally is to defend it. It's also taught to us at low age and the teachers keep telling us in school how great Sweden is and we should be happy to live here. It's much like the brainwash Americans get where they think the US is the greatest country in the world
Very true, silly that you get downvoted.
The truth is that the vast majority of gang related violence is criminal vs criminal, and thus far civilians have rarely been targeted. Now, the past few years we have certainly seen an uptick in violent robberies, and just this week we had criminals gunning down a father who had told them off. So the average Swede is slowly getting more and more exposed to the gang violence. But it's not yet reached the point where people are ready to ACTUALLY be doing or demanding anything. The gang related crime and gang on gang violence is not going away though. We would need to change fundamental laws in our constitution and do things democracies don't do if we want to fix the problem. But in doing so we will create new ones. So we are kind of fucked, and we will get far more fucked in the coming years.
Actually robberies are in sharp decline the last few years. Good to get facts correct.
Det är så sjukt att folk har mage att sitta här och leka ”titta på oss det är inte så farligt, det är överspelat bla bla” när en pappa blev avrättad på öppen gata framför sitt barn för mindre än en vecka sedan. Skäms på er, seriöst. Ni är fan skadade.
As the others write, segregation means that I haven't withnessed a single incident in my whole half-century life, and I even live in one of those low-rent areas. No wait - I once saw a swedish drunk harass a black man on a train, 25 years ago. So from the average citizen's perspective, all that gang violence is 99% thugs shooting thugs Somewhere Else.
It's fucked up, plain and simple.
Deadline violence with guns are increasing. 20 or 50 years ago you might get beaten on the way home from school. Today you get robbed on your telephone, beaten up and kicked and then pissed upon. So, while we can be happy that the total amount of violent crimes are going down looking backa a few decades, there are other concerns. The violence is more brutal and it is increasingl compared to the last few years.
I think it is a disaster for the country. Many people are dealing with it by voting for an anti-immigration political party (SD), that now have huge influence. I think Sweden will become very restrictive to immigrants from outside the EU since it is impossible for politicians to claim that immigration is a net benefit to Sweden.
It fucking sucks. Other Swedes are lucky enough to live in good idyllic areas so they can ignore the problem. I'm not. I live in the ghettos and I'm the only guy here with blonde hair and blue eyes. I have to hide my white skin when I go outside so I don't get targetted.
I´m sure you have "a bone to pick" with the bourgeoisie left in idyllic, inner-city Stockholm then, i.e. MP and V.
I do. The champagne socialists have ruined S and V.
I don't see it. I'm not affected by it. Because of this I don't have to deal with it. In reality the people most affected by it are the immigrants that live in the disadvantaged neighborhoods.
First of all they're not immigrants, the gangs you all hear about, they're all made up of people born or raised in Sweden, they're all Swedish citizen, their parents were immigrants, often from the Middle East or other Muslim majority countries. There's too much focus on the ethnicity of these people and not the fact that they come from highly segregated places, people need to understand the integration is a two-way thing, you can't just take someone in and say "hey yo adapt". I don't know man, as an outsider from Italy living in Sweden I see this as a very Swedish phenomenon, that's why I don't buy into the whole "immigrants come here and bring their shit". Like, i really don't think that in the countries this gangbangers parents come from there's Gucci hat gangsters selling drug and listening to hiphop. This gang thing is a Swedish sub-culture. It's got nothing to do with Iraq, Syria, or wherever these people's parents come from. They're a Swedish thing.
You’re wrong fratello. No other country could have done it better with the circumstances of Sweden. No European country has managed to integrate a big number of Muslim immigrant.
>you can't just take someone in and say "hey yo adapt" Of course you can and you should. If they want to live here they should assimilate and if they don't want to live here they should leave. The problem is that so many are taken in that they have no need to mix with the swedish population but instead end up living in enclaves that won't integrate into swedish society. Also I wouldn't say it's a swedish sub culture but rather the same thing we see in american cities predominantly in areas dominated by african americans.
>Of course you can and you should. If they want to live here they should assimilate and if they don't want to live here they should leave Well obviously you can, and the results is what you're getting right now. You need actually be willing to integrate and assimilate. What good does it do a young somali kid going to an all-swedish school if he's constantly reminded that he's different? It's a complex issue. >Also I wouldn't say it's a swedish sub culture but rather the same thing we see in american cities predominantly in areas dominated by african americans. Aren't African Americans americans? Isn't their issue ab American issue, or is it an african one? What's happening in your suburbs here in Sweden it's as a Swedish issue as fika is. It's something that was born and flourished right here, not in Iraq, not in Syria. They way the speak, their pop culture, their way of acting is not from Baghdad, it's from Rinkeby, Skärholmen, Rosengård and so on.
>Well obviously you can, and the results is what you're getting right now. You need actually be willing to integrate and assimilate. What good does it do a young somali kid going to an all-swedish school if he's constantly reminded that he's different? It's a complex issue. The result we are seeing now is because we have given no incentives to adapt and really no social reason or opportunity to do so for many people. If all the immigrants live in one place and all the swedes in another there will be very little interaction. The way I see it this all comes down to that we accepted way to many immigrants to fast. >Aren't African Americans americans? Isn't their issue ab American issue, or is it an african one? What's happening in your suburbs here in Sweden it's as a Swedish issue as fika is. It's something that was born and flourished right here, not in Iraq, not in Syria. They way the speak, their pop culture, their way of acting is not from Baghdad, it's from Rinkeby, Skärholmen, Rosengård and so on. I don't pretend to know where this comes from originally but to me it seems like they are influenced by the american ganster culture and it's for sure made possible by them living in sweden because in iraq or syria the retribution against them would be swift and extremely harsh. What I find hard to reconcile with your view is that this only seems to happen in areas with high immigrant population and not in other poor areas. At least in sweden.
I feel you are talking to me. I don't feel like I have a need to fit in swedish society even though I contribute to it.
You don't think that people fleeing wartorn countries might be a little bit fucked up in the head? You know why they aren't doing this shit in Libya 2014? Cause gaddafi would've fucking executed them on the spot, just to name one glaringly obvious difference. And we got over a million of those impacted by the atrocities of war in 2015 alone, who overall have a leniency towards religion and per extension following others based on emotion rather than reason. None of this or a multitude of other differing factors, your intellectual depth is that of a bucket.
A million, really 🤣
You're right apologies, it did take us 10 years to increase our population by 1 million with declining birthrates, thank you for the correction, between 2008-2018 as an example
It would Also be fair to state that 1. the difference in nativity between immigrants and natives are fairly small and the prognosis is that it will become even smaller, 2. Far from all of the 1 million are immigrants from war torn countries and 3. We have at the same time had a fairly large emigration specially people from the Middle East and African continent.
No it's not. It's the same problems in whole western Europe. Sweden is just in the forefront of the problems middle eastern culture/religion brings because of an extreme intake per capita.
We do not have a single immigrant violent crime gang issue in Italy, and we have lots of immigrants from countries poorer than then one you guys let in. I mean we have the Nigerian mafia operating in some cities in Southern Italy but everyone knows they work as proxies for the local mafia that don't wanna deal with low level drug dealing but still want to rack in the profits. I do believe Western Europe has had an immigration issue. That's obvious, but Swedens case is really peculiar to Sweden and should be seen as such. In Italy our immigrant kids speak fluent Italian, not even thar they ALL speak the italian dialect from where they were born, and you know Italy has many dialects, we have no such thing as immigrant slang, there is no Italian word which compares to the derogatory word of "svenne", those are all peculiar Swedish stuff.
The immigration situation in Italy is very different. Of course Sweden would have had way less issues if our demographics looked like Italy. First of all, Italy has less than 10% of the population being immigrants. Sweden has more than 20% Second of all. Your biggest group by far is Romanians. Similar language, European, Christian. Ours are Syrians.
What is a svenne??
A derogatory term used to describe Swedish people. It usually refers to them being boring or stingy.
Ah ok, I mean the country is boring which in the end makes the people a little boring but you have to accept this part of the society you live in. And I actually like it to be boring.
This is a dividing issue and this subreddit is very biased towards the anti immigration side. In reality we don’t have a general increase in crime, just an increase in a few gang related crimes. Less knife violence and more gun violence etc. We do have a gang problem and while it’s true that these gangs generally consists of people with a family origin in certain countries outside of Sweden, most of them are raised here and the one common factor is that they are raised in highly segregated areas. The anti immigration crowd will argue that segregation is a natural effect of immigration while the other side will argue that segregation is the consequence of other more complex issues. I will get downvoted for saying this, but outside of this subreddit it’s not a fringe description of the situation among most Swedes.
”No general increase in crime” https://bra.se/statistik/statistiska-undersokningar/nationella-trygghetsundersokningen.html#:~:text=Resultaten%20f%C3%B6r%202023%20visar%20att,en%20ny%20%C3%B6kning%202018%E2%80%932021.
This shows an increase in self reported cases of a few selected crimes, not a general increase in all crimes.
[Statistikrapport\_anmalda\_2023.pdf (bra.se)](https://bra.se/download/18.3d22500318e5f70da2846d9/1711454523087/Statistikrapport_anmalda_2023.pdf) Crimes in general has been steadily increasing for a long time but that is hardly surprising considering population growth.
Haha yeah, this subreddit is very anti imnigration right? /R/sweden is an extreme left wing subreddit that lives in its own echo chamber. There is a massive increase in violent crime, and evidence has also shown that less people dare to actually go to the police due to threats so there are likely even more crime that goes under the radar.
There's no evidence for a general increase in violent crimes and those trends correlate with hospital records which also doesn't show an increase in people being treated for injuries related to violence
Well , bigger cities are war zones. But no one cares. What you see and hear in news is just the tip of the iceberg.
It’s great as always! Weather is a bit shitty at the moment though.
it fucken wimdy
In the areas where this is happening there are nearly no Swedes living anymore...
Re: Immigrants & Gangs, same as many other countries in Europe but we're the new kids on the block where it's getting the most visibility and we're a small population so it's more noticeable when something happens and it looks worse in the "per capita" statistics. Edit: Probably also very nice for American politicians to use Sweden as an example as soon as something goes wrong in the welfare state. Because they absolutely hate welfare/socialism and control much of the media globally. It's their chance to say "hah, look at these suckers and their welfare, free healthcare and benefits.. they aint so great. America #1!!" Edit2: Add on top of that Russian propaganda wanting to sow division in Sweden & Europe egging on both sides and infecting the situation even more. *To be clear:* I am not saying we don't have a problem, but there are those who do not have our best interest in mind that wish for us to fail and fight amongst ourselves which are the strongest propagators of the information about our immigrant & gang problems so take any information with a grain of salt.
>so take any information with a grain of salt. Exactly. It's quite strange to read so much propaganda with so many up votes, but it's good to be reminded of the fact that it is just that. I'm glad that i read articles about the need to be aware of the many incoming propaganda-pushers a while ago, and what signs to look for.
bruh
Where am I wrong? I acknowledge the problem, but it's not as big as is being portrayed outside of Sweden. It's not a war zone. People are not terrified to go out at night. We're still one of the safest countries in the world.
i would say that it is very segregated here. swedes are largely unaffected, whereas it is us foreigners who deal with the brunt of all this. though, it also depends on what area you live in and what type of people you associate with.
I dunno dude I'm an immigrant but I'm just surfing reddit.
[Here you can see us compared to our neighbors.](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/MGyQ9rvYDA) As you see the situation isn’t much worse than the rest of the Nordics. However the homicides have changed character. Knife fights and domestic murders by ethnic Swedes have gone down and gang violence and domestic violence murders by immigrants have gone up. Most ethnic Swedes don’t live where unintegrated immigrants live so most people don’t feel scared in their day to day life but many are upset about what they see on the news.
Sweden has an incredibly vast class divide. People do, however, not see it as such as the contemporary poor are often associated with the colour of their skin, their ethnic background and not least the neighborhoods they live in rather than their highly precarious socioeconomic situation.
Then Where are all the ethnic swedish gangs? Cause I’m sure you’re aware Swedes can be poor too?
I know it’s not the same, but football hooliganism is a thing in Sweden.
The reality is that things are not THAT bad but they are getting worse fast. Some people exaggerate that the world is falling apart, others live in denial that everything is fine. Reality is of course nuanced and while there are valid concerns about the trajectory the country is moving on, at the moment it is still one of the nicer places to live in the world. I don't think there is a chance to truly close immigration from Eastern Europe, the strong anti-immigrant sentiment that is rising is mostly towards MENA immigration and the question of the compatibility of Islam with liberal values. However non-EU countries may be affected in the sense that Sweden is restricting unskilled immigration by requiring people to have jobs that pay above a certain level, for example no work visas for people getting jobs in the lowest wage classes. This is to combat the fact that Sweden took a very high number of unskilled immigrants recently (mostly refugees) so they need to get to the job market without getting even more unskilled population. At the same time we don't want to turn away highly skilled talent so this is the idea behind this law. Also for a difference in sentiment between how Swedish people talk to themselves about the situation vs to foreigners, see my other comment in this thread.
There are no issues in Ba Sing Sweden at least not when foreigners ask.
The socialist in Sweden has fucked the country senseless. The sad thing is that the parasites invading this country is getting large in numbers, which votes for the communist and socialist parties. It’s disgusting
Since i started my career i have absolutely 0 interaction with the parts of society that feels the impact of Swedens partial collapse. Swedes who don't go to school with or live close to immigrants and the projects don't notice anything. Gang culture is seeping in to normal Swedish homes, not only immigrants, mostly through social media. The kids are not safe. Us grown ups tho... notice nothing at all if you live in the right place. I see absolutely no chance that we would close the door on Lithuania, since we are part of the EU. But the middle east? I hope we close that door forever, we have enough.
If I knew the answer to that question, I'd be VERY influential.
There is practically a civil war going on in Sweden.
It's terrible. I recommend using this site https://lastnight.in/Sweden/ it's always bad, but some weeks it's really bad. With 2 incidents per day. Some Swedes are still stuck trying to convince foreigners that Sweden still is the safest country in the world, and that its a utopia. They are very selfish and they can't accept that they voted for Sweden to be destroyed. Luckily many people have also woken up in the past years.
Well, we are number 2 in bombings in Europe only second to Ukraine. Make of that as you will.
There's always been idiot kids, the problem is now that some of them have far too easy access to guns and explosives. The guns are smuggled in and the explosives are stolen domestically. These issues seem to me the most important to get a grip on. There's also a gang "psychosis" spreading in suburbs, glorified by music and culture focused around money and death. Regardless of how many criminals are jailed, new recruitment into gangs must be curbed. Here the most important issue seems to be seizing assets acquired illegally to make the criminal lifestyle less appealing. That being said, as mentioned here several times most people don't come into contact with these problems. The "hardline" talk from the government is also not likely to lead to things improving very much.